Why Hegseth and Tulsi Make Trump More Dangerous | The Daily Beast Podcast

You have an impulsive president. who by any we've been exposed to him now at a major level for ten years, does not have the attention span or the discipline. to ask or inquire on the follow up questions. I'm Joanna Coles, chief content. officer of The Daily Beast, and this is the Daily Beast podcast. Please feel free to subscribe or leave comments. after today's interview with none other than Rahm Emanuel. You may remember him as the chief of staff to Barack Obama.

He went on to be mayor of Chicago, and he's just come back. from being ambassador of Japan, and he's got opinions on everything, not least his own decision making, around whether or not. he decides to run for president for the Democratic Party. So let's not waste any time. He's been in the Situation Room when big international situations. have been going on. We've had one this weekend. Let's find out what he thinks. What was your reaction to the news that Donald Trump.

had bombed Iran's, in theory, nuclear facilities? Why? I have, I'd be less than honest. I didn't say I have a set of mixed emotions. It's not singular in the sense good or bad or. thumbs up, thumbs down. Because one. Remember Iran. You know, contrary to what they said was on the course of trying. to get a nuclear weapon, two, they have both directly, indirectly,

killed or tried to kill Americans. They have been a sponsor, not just a terrorist organization. Done a lot of killings in Europe as recently as off the Yemen coast. They had a ship that was directing fire on American servicemen and women. And I am a father of two in the United States Navy. I was going to ask you about that. I don't see a sovereign nation, but not a, benign one to wrap that up. So, there's that element.

There's also the element that, you know, Iran was, if you look at the, and I was a supporter of the 2015 agreement. and that's a 52, 48, 51, 49 it's not like 100%. Yes. And I'm being opposed to it's a zero. There were two weaknesses, or it's three, but definitely two. One was it left in place? Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.. And Israel over the last 600 plus days has dealt.

with the octopus that was encroaching. Second, which is I've been talking about this. It left in place the missile production capacity, both the delivery piece. and if you look, beyond everybody focusing on the three nuclear sites, Israel has systematically been attacking the missile production infrastructure. going back to the first bombing, the rather the second bombing. And now this one. I say second.

I mean, there's been three different points of bombing. So they have dealt with what you would have said was the 2015. weaknesses, vulnerabilities of that agreement that Israel outlined. So, one of me is. this was a, you could see the, value to this. On the flip side, nobody's answered some question that I think is a very important question. The United States intelligence drain president dismiss them. had one view about where Iran was on the breakout.

and apparently in the interest and the intent. The international community kind of agreed with the American intelligence. They were kind of mirror are they were hasn't tales of the same judgment. the Israeli intelligence. was all the way on the other side. This was a two week runway and they were on a breakout. But now we also know and I think this is accurate or. I should say we know, but I agree with this premise. that one of.

Prime Minister Netanyahu's motivations. was his fear that Donald Trump, President Trump. and the Iranians were going to cut a deal that Israel thought was a bad deal. and their opportunity window would be shut. And so he took it. And I you know, this is not a today moment, but America just took military action. So we don't know where this is going to end. In opposition to its own intelligence judgment.

and in support of the Israeli intelligence option. Now, maybe I'm a. You asked me, put you in the Situation Room. The thing is, having gone through a number of things. hitting terrorists, Afghanistan, build up, why is it that Israel has this judgment and why is it we have this judgment? And where does that discrepancy go? Are we getting the full story from Israel? Are we getting the full story from ours? Why are you saying XYZ?

The international community saying similar X and y the Israelis at why? Because if you're asking the president to make a decision, you're basing it. on one set of intelligence, judgments, not on another. And we pay these people. So that would be, what I would press in the third is. on all these things, what is the kind of scale. from best outcome to worse, put them out. And, you know, every president's different Obama, President.

Obama, President Clinton would want memos and the debates are others. Obviously, this president's more visual. So what is option best case scenario probably capitulation, worst case scenario, full out. decades of, terrorism across the globe. Sure. Strait of Hormuz is going to get closed. You know, just all the options. So you've laid out perfectly rational case for how you would approach it. Do you think that's what Donald Trump's approach was? Is that a, faux question or a realist?

I think, you know, the I don't think. I don't ready U.S. history for 200. I don't think the critical thinking, of walking through. and the reason I'd say the critical was done in this white House. and done with the look, you have an impulsive president. who by any we've been exposed to him now at a major level. for ten years, does not have the attention span or the discipline.

to ask or inquire on the follow up questions. Now, maybe there's a different Donald Trump. behind the curtain than we know about the, outside the curtain. This is a guy that's driven by the news story driven by dominating the the public. And he doesn't have, I as somebody who's self-aware, I have my own attention deficit disorder. As an adult, I look like steady compared to that. So I don't think they went through. what I have seen President Clinton and President Obama up close,

taking not just on. also, there's domestic policy decisions that you make on health care. with President Obama in the financial system versus. when President Clinton was deciding, after vetoing two welfare bills, the third one, the debate, all of these take three levels. politics, policy.

explicit. And I say that and you and you have to have it integrated whole. And I don't think this president and or his staff, I would not, I'm, I'm exposing myself. So if you had ten quarters, there's not one person. The intelligence or in defense, the, appointed cabinet members. that I would say would be the top ten people I would call Tulsi Gabbard, the head of national intelligence, actually said to Donald Trump. and put out there. that there was no evidence that Iran actually had nuclear capabilities.

He then immediately came out, undermined her and said, yes, they do. And then she rolled back and said, well, they will have in a few months. Well, that was it. That was a that was a that was a plea to keep her job. That wasn't her. I mean, so that's gets back to that one point. I said I would want to. I mean, as a president and I'm not that as a chief of staff. I was that. as a congresswoman that was in the leadership. Why is it we concluded this? Why are the Israelis concluding that really opposed it?

Tell me, what are the assumptions behind us? And I want the answers to why the Israelis concluded this. And you before. I mean, you're asking me for my bombing, putting my my troops at risk. Tell me I want to see your intelligence, and I want to see what you've given me. I want to see what I want to what you haven't given me. There's a part of me that passes and turns at night. How about this question that doesn't. That doesn't.

Look, I mean, there's you know, I have a rule in politics. People that are being very friendly are not your friends worth bearing in mind? I'll remember that next time we interview politician. Oh, wait, we are entering a politician, not your friends. So tell me. And this is something I got. You know, I saw in the morning. So I'm giving you my bad habits. I swim a mile and I take a question all the time rather than count my laps. And I got this thing has occupied to since we did this.

What is it that the Israelis know that we don't know? And what is it we know that they don't know? And before you decide. Yes. Because what you say. Yes. There's no way back. I want to know the answer. And the president needs to know this answer. And I would demand, if I was sitting not to the president's immediate, left. And then you were sitting at the top of the table. Tell me the difference and why. But doesn't it appear right now that nobody knows anything.

that we don't know whether or not they move to the nuclear capabilities? We don't know how effective the bombing has been. I wanted to ask you a question. I'm sure one of the reasons you toss and turn at night. is you have two children in the or adult children. I toss it turn. Ever since working for President Clinton, I have had a sleep. I had a good night's sleep in 30 plus years. Okay, well, that's not good. That's not a good. That's not a good preparation for president. Or perhaps the next thing about being in a manual.

Well, I want to come to that in a minute. Let me ask you this. You've got two kids in the military. How active? One reserve. How do you feel about them taking instruction and policy. that impacts their actions from Pete Hegseth. and the defense secretary and this president? Well, look, they took an oath, and they're going to live by that else. I, if I talk about them as a father, I'll start cheering up. I'm immensely proud.

You know, I grew up, they grew up in a home where you have to do some point in national service. You have to dedicate a year giving something back. I don't know what you're going to do. in your life, but it will be very good for you. Be good for the country. But you have to do that. Pause. Amy's family, her father. and her grandfather. There are kids, so grandfather. and great grandmother who go back generations in the Navy. That's how they got to bat. I got to be honest, I was thinking, I was asked.

Teacher America something, but they made this choice. And I'm proud of the choices and the judgment. and the character that it reveals. Now I'm going to not say because they they took an oath. So they got to abide by that oath. I'm going to say something. more, because I don't want to speak. I mean, I, I, I don't want to speak for them. I want to speak because I don't think that's fair or right,

because they can do that for themselves as a, as mature adults, you know, when they when Zack Araya, joined. I don't know about a year in. He's also deployed and he's deployed during Covid. And when I did ask myself. And I do think this is why there should be. and I've written about some form of universal national service.

I know, you know, I've been in the situation Room. with two different presidents over eight year span with different challenges. National security. I don't think I ever and I said, remember what I said, policy, politics and crafts or publicity or whatever. I don't think I ever made a judgment or advice. Rather, gave counsel. for politics and press. outweighed the policy. He tried to get an integrated approach,

but I would be less than honest about it. Until you you is a parent, you think about it. If I didn't tell you that, I'd be lying to you. I mean, the secretary of defense, this is a former Fox News host. The president openly doesn't read his intelligence briefings. He makes a point of not reading his intelligence briefings, saying he goes on instinct and his instincts are better. and he knows everything. If I had children in the military and that was the leadership, I would be panicked.

Yeah, I understand, and they will. They're adults and I know not to speak for them. So I want to be careful. Fair enough. Because I because, well, there's a precedent, etc.. My role as a father is the most important thing in my life. And so let me just say, let me go off of what you said, you know, you see, he says instincts. You know, I'm into the judgment. of a president. and being able to ask the right questions, have the right people around,

and not be scared of people to challenge your judgment. and so, while he may say instincts, and I saw the vice. president's comments the other day saying every predecessor was an idiot, well, when President Clinton was making a big decision, he called president especially on major foreign policy. She called President Bush. well, and he famously read books, right. He famously read everything he could get his hand. So you have an obligation to brief your predecessor.

It's a good tradition. We're Americans first. Then you can figure out your partizanship. And you not only want the fully briefed, you want their full judgment, because there's only. X amount that have sat right in that chair. I can say that as a mayor who sat there, which is why I don't say anything to make. my successors lives more difficult. That has a pressure. Then you want their insights, because not only. a few people have sat with that responsible city.

And so instincts is one thing, judgment is another. And my preference because let me give you one piece of history. Since I am a boxer, that. we are benefited as a country, as a world. that the Bay of pigs mess up happened before the Cuban Missile Crisis, because Kennedy learns from what he inherited from Eisenhower, told. the trigger, learn from a big mistake, takes responsibility, and those lessons get applied. Six months later, more than a year to the Cuban missile crisis.

He's a wiser, smarter. And his judgment. His ability to acknowledge his failure. Learn from it that so I say. that there's other examples in history from other presidents. It's not instinct. that we as a. country bear pigs is a mess on American reputation. Kennedy owns it. But it's to our benefit. We don't see it at the time when the Cuban Missile Crisis occurs.

And that is so I'm. I a great for instinct, give me character and give me judgment. That's the scorecard error and we all sail. Do you have the judgment to learn from your failure? Pick yourself up and put your right foot in front of your left. foot and start again. That's what you want out of a president because they're all going to fail. And do you think we have that in the current president? You're running for president. You want to run for president? I'm trying to get you to to tell me what you think of the guy in charge.

now, because he's unusual and he's changed the game in terms of how people run. Here's what I do think. I will tell you what I used to tell President Clinton and President Obama, if we all knew in the first year of the second term, if we all knew in the first year of the first term what we knew. by the first year of the second term, your presidency would be different. I do think for Donald Trump's. outline is the same as. it was from 2016 to 2020.

She benefited from that period of time off. And in the second term, that was true for President Clinton. That was true for President Obama is true for anybody. Do I think he has the judgment? No. Do I think he has a disciplined no. Does it do I think he has surrounded himself. by quality people who will challenge his assumptions? No, I do not. And I think that's a big, loss. It's a loss for America.

So you're seriously considering a 2028 run? Why? Well, it gets to the core. I think the American dream is on affordable. and accessible. And I think that is, unacceptable. And I grew up at a time. where if you work hard, you can attain the American dream. Today, working hard doesn't get you there.

It's been restricted to. probably your kids. My kids? That's not right. It can't be the American dream of only 10% of the children. Get it? The system is rigged against people. And I also say this now. slightly in the philosophical, but it's not an accident at the very moment the American dream. becomes unaffordable, which is exactly when American politics becomes unstable. Haven't you been part of the process of it not being affordable? I mean, you've spent 16 years effectively in office, 16 years with two presidents.

One of the things I said earlier is knowing what you've done right, what you've done wrong, and being able to learn from it. Now, I happen to think, let's go over my record if that's where you want to go, which is I was the person, creating children's health care for 10 million, children. who had no health care, having created, negotiating to help pass Obamacare. One of the core elements of the American Dream is being able.

to afford health care and not having it go at risk. When I first get to Congress, one of the first bills I do was automatic enrollment. for 41K retirement Security. is a big challenge when I was mayor, and I happen to think, education. cost is one of the biggest drivers of Middle-Class insecurity. For a city to make community college free, you get to be average.

It's free. You maintain that B average. Every university and college in Chicago. gives you another 40% off, 50% off the remaining years. So did I solve it all? And you are right. Pieces of that. But whether it's retirement security, educational. security for your children, health care, affordability. I've been at the front end of each and every one of those in one. where I was mayor, chief of staff or congressman. I think the American dream is unaffordable.

And I think restoring the American people's confidence. and accessibility to that will strengthen not only our economy, our democracy. and our projection across and that across the globe. And to me, that's the core. And I don't think now I want to get the education. Some of you fought hard for that. I don't think we've been focused, on. what I think is the most essential piece for the future, which is education. Every. There are three great moments in American economic expansion.

All of them are underpinned by educational access. The land grant colleges under the Lincoln High School becoming universal, the GI Bill under Franklin Delano Roosevelt a year before the war. And. my view, and this is what I did. as mayor, is we have to focus on the next generation. And we are at a 30 year low on reading, a 30 year low, a mask. We've been focused on bathroom access and not, classroom excellence.

And that is fundamentally misguided. And if you want to have a future, you have an era where you earn. what you learn. And we are not focused on that future. And we got to stop borrowing from it and start investing in it. Okay. So why did the Democrats lose the last election? Look, 70% of the country, there's three layers I do in this, 70% of the country. We thought the country was headed in the wrong direction. Well, that's kind of a baked in anti-incumbent,

but a layer below it. And I this is my judgment. Other people have a. but usually the incumbent has an advantage, right, right, right, right. But the vice president was an incumbent and not. But let me just finish. Second piece is. Kamala Harris gets the nomination. The Democrats are Biden. Her ticket Biden-Harris ticket is eight points below. She gets the nomination running all the way through to the debate.

as she goes plus three. Somewhere after the debate to the close, they go off into this democracy argument. And if you cared core to democracy, we had you on. Yes. And then served not just 2024, not just 2020, 20, 2016. There are three seminal moments in the last 20 years. that I think are setting the parameters of American politics, the Iraq war. We go spend $1 trillion plus built on a lie, and people lose.

Their lives are made for life and everybody accountable. Everybody responsible for that lie. never held responsible or accountable for years later. Same on the financial scandal. People lose their livelihood, their homes, and the bankers are running around. saying we want our bonuses, etc. we don't pay a price. Covid big upending. of American life and routines,

and the Democrats become the party. and the voice of the establishment and allow the Republicans be the honest. I was in a very era, a time. where people hate. the establishment and have every reason to because the establishment. has one rule book and the rules are fit for their success, and everybody else. This goes to live by another set of rules. And so to me, 70% of the country thought it. was heading in the wrong direction, kind of built it anti-incumbent.

She could have won, didn't win. And there's a series of mistakes, in the campaign. And then third kind of defining this moment in time, not just that election in time. There's a a lot of ways we talk about black, white, male, female, college, non-college urban, rural establishment, and the rest of America is the big divide. And that has to be, acknowledged by those in the establishment. We have cut our ties to the American people, and they resent it because they think we've just self-dealing.

and they have a lot of reason to think that's true. A lot of examples. You have a great career in public service. You've been a congressperson. You've been a chief of staff, you've been a mayor. in traditional. times, that would be a good resumé to be a president. What's interesting about this current president. is that he appears to have upended what people want in leadership, and he has his own social media platform. He brought in Elon Musk, who had his own social media platform.

Should it should the Democrats. Welcome back Elon Musk. I mean, he was a Democrat before he went over to the Trump side. Well, again, I know you think you probably find it hard to believe. Let me focus on me for a second. All right. Well, let's talk about you. But but I'm curious. I do want to know whether or not the Democrats should welcome Elon back. Okay, I'll start with that. I'll. I'll do the second question first.

Look, look, the real. the question. It's a. this is an answer in progress. So what I mean by that is. look, you say Donald Trump is scrambled and I think that's true. Obviously we don't know whether and what I do know.

about American history and presidential history specifically, the next president answers. what you think are the deficits of the of the predecessor predecessor. The successor scratches the itch. Kennedy to Eisenhower, Nixon to Johnson. I mean, you just go through it. Carter to forward Trump to Obama, Trump to Obama, Obama to Bush. It's just you that person scratches.

the itch left by the predecessor. So while Donald Trump has upended a lot of. we know about politics in America, we don't know what that itch will be. I have a guess. And it's a word. That's why I say it's a work in progress. I'm not sure it's going to be looking for a cheaper version of Donald Trump. Look, in politics, it's the art of addition and building a big math for addition.

That's what Donald Trump did. He brought in working class people in the Republican Party, and then he brought in working class black and Hispanic voters. He brought in tech community. We have been experts as the Democrats over years of subtraction. I we've wanted to reverse. the game of subtraction that we have become really good at, and I think we want it so I don't think it's just Elon Musk. But I would welcome as a party. young and entrepreneurs who are solving tomorrow's problems.

and know that the Democratic Party sees them. They're entrepreneurship, whether it's a small business. or whether it's a technology company, whether it's somebody that puts their heart. and soul in a coffee shop and something new. I want you to see the Democratic Party as your home. Yes. And I think welcoming entrepreneurs at every scale. is exactly right now. One of the big problems is big technology rigs the system, so those entrepreneurs. don't have really the same chance that the big guys have.

I do think that's not Elon Musk, but that's the technical, as well. That's an entrepreneur writ large. What other segment of the economy, if you put your heart and soul and your dreams into and sweat equity. into creating something that's your dream, you and your family, the Democratic Party is on your side. And this to me, is if you work for a living, you're going to have a government works for you. And we haven't done that in a while. I get that, I get that, and I get the appeal of, of the technology community.

What's interesting about Elon Musk is he comes with X, he's. the richest man in the world. So he comes with an enormous ability to fund specific candidates on the ground. He said that he wants to start up a third party. Is there a move here where you could invite Elon Musk back? You look, I dealt with Elon Musk when I was mayor, when we were trying to do one of the unique things that I like. So I dealt with him. when I was chief of staff, when he was first taking of space X, etc.

he is a. successful entrepreneur and not a one, not a one trick pony. He's done rockets, he's done telecom, he's done a car. And now you trying to do the tunnel B so at one level. you can say whatever you want about him personally, not lifestyle etc. etc. she's not a one trick pony. There's some technology people, they make a one hit. and they think they're geniuses on everything. And that's just not true. And I respect that.

I have some fundamental policy differences with them. And, but I do I do respect. the person who has upended three different industries and brought a level. And I'll say, by way, example, we had two astronauts stuck at the International Space Station. Thank God we didn't have to rely on one company to solve it and bring them home. And thank God we made that in the best way. We had competition, and not only competition, a different model. And we invested in that, I don't think.

And this gets to a core issue. So welcome in. I welcome in any entrepreneur, that is trying to change the world and make it a better place. You can argue out and I've had my disagreements, but I do respect that he's done something in three different spaces. Four, five if you add Doge, I wouldn't call that, I think, bro, that's where I have a disagreement. Bill Clinton did more savings. with the reinvention government, with al Gore finding more headcount.

reduction, the headcount in the federal government. at the smallest level since Eisenhower, less headcount, smallest level. And be more important that. it passed the. House and Senate with massive bipartisan majorities. So it didn't end up in court. It actually won in the court of public opinion. It passed a legislative branch. That's what governing supposed to do. It is hard, but I don't actually think Doge was anywhere close, as I actually think. it was nothing but a bull in a China style that ended up in the federal courts.

And I'm not sure it's going to save any money, and I'm not sure it's going to prevent a headcount. But we did lose a lot of intellectual talent. Bill Clinton showed a different model, which I happen to think is the right way, something I followed when I was mayor. So you would or you wouldn't have Elon Musk back. Would he be a useful supporter for you. once you lay down your I think it's way too premature. I just my attitude is addition. You're trying to personalize it to one individual. I think he is something I, I don't agree with him on policy, but I do admire.

he upended the telecom. Okay. So I guess what I guess what I'm trying to say is I appreciate. your sort of theoretical approach and your three stages. Theoretical. Well, to me, what you're missing, but for me, being theoretical and not only accused, I take it as a compliment. All right, well, I got to see myself as pragmatic. Here's the thing that I'm interested that you don't mention, which I think is increasingly important, is people. It's the people of it, all right? And people respond to people. Voters respond to people.

They love Bill Clinton. They loved, President Obama, they liked Joe Biden. A lot of them liked Donald Trump. And what what I'm sort of getting at is that feels like it's changed. Memes have changed. Social media has changed how people think about the people. that are going to lead us from now on. You can see it going on in New York City right now, where there's a battle for, for primary for the Democratic Party, which I'm. sure you you're very conscious of. So I'm just curious as to.

as to how you think you can. sort of game that new system book I'm. Well, I don't want a game. It makes it look like you're faking it. And so let me say one thing about myself that I think it's true. I'm glad you asked me it. I think about it. I don't think anybody's ever said I have not been honest. I don't think anybody's ever said that. I'm not who I am. I'm not somebody else. Or trying to fake who I am, who I am. And third, I have say, I mean, I have a certain amount of,

you know, the nickname I got going back to my President Clinton was Rahm, but I, I have taken on the gun. lobby and created the and helped pass the assault weapons ban. I take on the insurance companies and helped. create the Children's Health Insurance Program. I was a first mayor. and any government official to sue the pharmaceutical industry over opiate. I took on the educational bureaucracy and created free community college, and I took on all the health care industry and helped create, and pass Obamacare.

and also the banks that were, screwing the homeowners and small businesses. So I so that suddenly felt like a stump speech that suddenly felt like it. No. Hey. Well, Joanna, and all due respect, I love this interview. I love your red, white and blue. Is a British coming over to America wearing that outfit? I am who I am. I'm comfortable with that. You didn't know that. You're asking the question you had asked before about Elon Musk. I am who I am, and I believe there's a place for candor, authenticity. and strength, and we'll see if it works if I decide to do it.

And I don't know why we do decide against doing it. I mean, you've basically said you can't believe. the two of us got something lost in translation. They both speak English. Well, I've lived here for 27 years. I'm sorry to disappoint you. Look, if I think I have something to offer that others aren't, I'll. That will be a big piece. If I think, I not only have that, but I have the skill set. in a way that I think adds to the politics. I think I've been able, in the short period time of being back, challenged. some of the mistakes I think Democrats made on the cultural,

front and focus it better on what I think are. middle class values and middle class economic interests. And if I think I can execute on that, I'll do it. Part of my other part of my other question is, you know, you got to ask yourself, not too far from your questions. Do you have what it takes? Do you have something that nobody else is doing? And can you make a contribution or win? And is there a path to do it?

So there's like a lot of questions. And then you ask also is this something you know I haven't run before. You haven't. you are something also personally of your family of sacrifice. Am I, right to do that? Given that I have. done, asked a lot, of my family in the past. So there's a lot of different layers. If I didn't sit here and say there's also a personal thing. I mean, you said and you talked about my resume. or whatever, but experiences like that is both a strength and a weakness. But it's also is it something I would ask of my family.

again, personally, with my kids, given where they are in their lives. and having your father out there, is that really something, that you want to do? Or at this point, you ask yourself that, you know, a lot of us have certain, arrogance. that we have a skill set that we think we can do, that nobody else says. And do I have a set of ideas that I don't think other people. are not the feel that we all share this.

Am I articulating them in a way that I don't think the others are articulating? And do I have a strengths. to not just articulate them, not only think of them, but a record of actually producing me? And and you can see that like something I care deeply about, you know, as William Bennett, Rory as secretary of education. before I was mayor, called Chicago the word public school system in America. Sean Reardon at Stanford, the leading educational demographer called Chicago,

an outlier of excellence of big city educational systems. I care deeply about that. Another subject, and I think that's core to the American dream. And I have shown the strength and character to take on fights. to make that possible. Okay. So what do you make of Bernie Sanders and AOC tour at the moment? The Oligarchy tour, as they're calling it? But I mean, my own thing is, I think there's a you know, I grew up the time it started,

the Democratic Party had rural seats, they had southern seats, except for the southwest was kind of closed off. That has changed over the period of that. But and that was a big party and I'm for Big Ten. I actually think regardless of the Progressive Caucus, the New Democratic caucus, if you thought of it. from congressional wings or wherever there's a greater consensus. in our party of what's wrong. And I think one of the things that Bernie and AOC offer, which is that.

the system is rigged, that's exactly what I think the American people. want a shot at the American dream, and they're getting the shaft. and the system is rigged. And there's more of a consensus. I mean, Bernie talks about free college. I created free community college, the first city to do it. They talk about raising the minimum wage. We were one of the first cities to raise the minimum wage in the city of Chicago. So there's more. There's a consensus there. Do we have differences? Yeah, but we have also a lot of consensus. And I think that exists also in the party as a whole.

I actually think. yeah, I do, I, I'm not saying it flippantly and stuff like that. There's disagreements. I'm like, no, I'm not airbrushing them. That's where you emphasize it. There's more agreement. That's where the emphasis is if you really step back and listen to it. But I think there's an agreement and, on the critique that the system is rigged against,

the American people's own success and success, there's an agreement. that education, health care, retirement, security, home ownership. are core pieces that the system is structure today. doesn't make it more accessible and doesn't make it more secure. The kind of underpinning an American dream. And one of the policy pieces to that, that's where you start to get a little bit of, shade. But as I said, Bernie, I. know this when we served in the house, was talking about free college.

When I was mayor, I created free community College. Okay. So and I saw the value in that. I also as mayor and I want to take an emphasis on this only city to do this. And I haven't seen anybody. replicated at state of city level to get your high school diploma, you had to produce a letter of acceptance from a college, a community college, a branch of the armed forces or a vocational school. So every child, not just my children, not just join it. I don't know if you have kids, but it just your kids.

Every child has a post-high school career. And to I created in the city. for kindergarten universal pre-K universal. because those who are essential they advocate it. We did it to raise the minimum wage. And so there is consensus on policies. that address the anxieties in the American people. And I say this and let me close one thing, but not talk about Bernie, Ariel or me.

When I have when I used to go to the graduation. and then the announcement, the kids are getting accepted. into the Chicago Star Scholarship, the free community college, the release in the parents eyes. where they did not have to. take a second mortgage, a second job, or only one child gets to go to college. The release that that policy created in the exact every parent,

every day from day one. How do I make sure. they're launched? And there are a lot of things. I did that I think help parents. This was something that really you do. see the tears, the and the psychological release, that a parent left. And that's why when you go to something proactively where I think. we've gotten sidetracked as Democrats, I call my education agenda art.

A for attendance, R for reading and T for truth. We have a massive crisis post Covid in attendance. I would have a national standard 5%. Otherwise you're not getting actual money that kids can't get social promotion. miss and 20% of the school year a quarter or other. A fifth, second. Mississippi patch. and other states have shown that what's called the Mississippi Miracle. Going back to the basics and more time on it.

and reading and math and the core subjects. And John, real incredible results with very difficult, demographic groups. And third, the truth parents need to know how their kids and, and fit schools. are doing on national standards and reading math and the, area. And to me, arch is a commitment I would. have to restore our educational system. because we are at 30 year lows of reading the math and I. if I want to run, I have an obligation to lay out a plan for it.

So the central flaw I find in your argument. that people think the system is rigged is such is that there's like 20 of them. Well, all right, well, the one that I can see that I'm struggling with is that Democrats. have been in charge for much of this time. They've been in charge of California. They've been in charge of New York, where arguably, kids were kept out of school for far too long. You had all sorts of red states getting kids back into school. and getting the state up and running much faster.

You've had, you had eight years of Obama. You had four years of Trump, you had four years of of Joe Biden. So it's not like Democrats haven't been in charge here. It's not like they haven't been given a chance. They have. Let me let me push back on you on a couple of it. One is I first of all, you said flaw. I wrote about this. So you obviously I don't know what was doing the research. I've said we got to own the fact that during. But why sure. Right now I did read that.

But why should anybody trust you if you've been at the helm effectively. for the last the last 20 years, why would why would they think, oh, here's. a guy who's benefited from the system, but he's saying the system is rigged. Okay, well, maybe there's a oh, well, goes back to the learning thing. I know that could be part of a system where I know all its problems. That could be also true. You know, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be your conclusion. You could also. I hate to break that. I hope you're sitting down. You could be wrong.

You know, I, I, I know this is your podcast, but let me break the news. You may not be right on this one, but I'm I'm I'm not I'm not wrong. that Democrats have been in charge effectively for the last 20 years. I'm not wrong about that. I'm not wrong about the fact that people feel there's chaos in the big cities, that they don't feel the Democrats. stand up for law and order, that defund the police was a mistake for Democrats. That's part of why Donald Trump got elected. Go. And let me just say this one is. I was never for defund the police. I wasn't mayor that I won't be for.

And I've spoken out against this second is you have. my record is eight years the good and the bad and the ugly. As mayor on education, I know what the results work. Third, I know having negotiated for President Obama and already Duncan. in the first budget, the race to the top which education those standards continue to improve. So your criticism I love you already. Not exactly accurate. Number two. And number two, wait a second. I get to you get to ask, I get to okay. Number two, I have been, part of this is being authentic and honest.

I have said the Democrats own responsibility for keeping schools. closed way too long in the data has proven children and quote unquote, blue states. have done worse. on reading and math and red states and everybody's looking at their shoes. So and I've had the honesty to say, we gotta own that and be a front of that. So your characterization of either Democrats and or me, no disrespect. I appreciate the outfit of the red, white and blue in the star. on these great holiday. Not accurate.

And I will say part of life which I think is true for you. True for me. You'll learn when for mistakes. But I've never changed from making sure that educational had access. Kids had families had. access to health. care and they were able to save for their retirement. That has been core to what I've done. And core to what I think the party done. And Democrats, under both the two presidents I worked with, my tenure as mayor. have actually made education more accessible.

and have seen the standards raised and then the resources to help people. get to it. All right. Let me ask you another question. We had Governor Newsom on the show two weeks ago, and he was talking about, obviously the the pressure. of having the National Guard come in to a very small area in L.A. and the signaling that that sent from Donald Trump, he was very calm. He said he wanted to talk. to people on both sides consistently, which he's been doing on his own podcast.

And I was surprised by the thousands of comments. we got from people watching the podcast saying, this is what Democratic leadership looks like. Here's someone who's calm. He's a leader. He's been a governor. He should stand. What do you think of Governor Newsom? Well, we're friends, so, now I'm up late about Vicky, his friends. Would he be a good president? Look for whoever we nominate. Meaning, whether it's myself or others, I'm going to support him.

I do, I think he has the right values. I think he has proven, over. time, his tenure as both a mayor, a lieutenant governor and governor to take on some tough issues. California's not only a big state, I think it's fourth largest economy in the world. So he has clearly back on and I think the see, I get back to this, let me say this. We're all going to fail. I said for a host of podcasts, everybody else fails the quit. The question is.

it's not a great. I just want to say it's not a great it's not a great slogan for you. Everybody fails. Everybody fails. Please don't use that as your slogan. Podcast. People never fail those on the other side and the real. So I must say, this is both a student of history, having had the, privilege to serve two presidents. in the West Wing, we're all going to fail. Just don't use that as your slogan. Rahm. Let me just try to finish. Let me just I apologize. Let me just try to fit.

The question is, do you have the judgment in character. to learn from that failure and apply it to the next, challenge? I saw that up close. I've seen it with myself. I like you. I go back to that. anecdote from history of the Bay of pigs versus the Cuban Missile Crisis. that I think every person. that is thinking about this, that you would have on the Democratic side, they would tell you where they have failed.

and they will tell you what they learned. You have to have the character and the judgment. It gets back to where we started and allowed Trump to ask the questions. that pressed your staff. that allow you, because it's a fog. down the road, and you have to see how that road turns, and you have to have the character and the experience. and the people. to kind of navigate with that floodlight into the fog. And have I made mistakes?

Plenty of them. I'm get reminded I have to have three kids like I do. I have plenty ammo. But Rahm, the great thing about anybody running for president now is it's. very clear, following President Trump, that no one expects a perfect person. anymore. Used to be that they did right and somebody had flaws. They didn't want them. Now nobody's expecting that. We actually have a convicted felon in the white House. So the bar is quite low actually on that one, I guess I want to I've got two front. No, I've got two final questions for you though, Joanna. One thing, if that's the case, we're all graded on a curve and I'll do fine.

Okay, well then then that's that. You should put that in your stump speech. So read it on a curve. If you were a betting man, what would you say happens in Iran now? And here's. one Iran. This this is they're going to respond. My gut tells me. based on history,

they ended the Iran Iraq war and they called it drinking poison. from the chalice in three days of, Iraq War by George Bush 43. They sent a ten point program at Bush Sept into history to be different. He did. He was arrogant. Cheney was arrogant. All the way. Arrogant. And here's me with David. So when their backs are against the wall, historically, they've taken survival. and made a choice. We have, one of the things, having grown up apart,

my dad was in the middle, you know, from Israel, their pride. Has been severely. damaged. Nobody, just. Persian or Middle Eastern and said that, like I said. And so there will be a strike. There will be, I believe they will not get to the worst, but I think that there's going to be a combination.

between patterns of the past and anger, resentment, embarrassment and shame that they think they have to correct. And there's a fusion of those two. And I don't know whether how we're the question is. they're going to take something, how do we react to it thoughtfully. And there's an act two that has yet to play it. We're in a four act play, and we just made a move on, scene one of act one,

and we're about to go into sing two of act two. And then final question, you have two very successful brothers, Ari Emanuel, who obviously is a Hollywood legend and something of an oligarch. Now, I believe it's fair, I think that, AOC. and Bernie Sanders would have something to say about Ari. And you have a brother. You see what I say? He always had the up on. Well, I'm very interested to know what you say about him. Why do I have to wait for Bernie and AOC? You should have seen what I. We shared a room my entire life.

I have my own views of what those are, and I bet you have. They're far more severe than AOC is a Bernie. All right, well, I'm very curious. Know then what do you think? And then I want to know what your mother put in the breakfast cereal. All right. And I'm going to call you on this now. I'm serious. Well, why is it my mother? How do you know both my parents? Well, it could be your dad. Totally could be your dad. I do that. You're not the first joke I take being a father seriously. One of the great things I had is a role model who I think is really superior. My father, no child,

you know, is not raised by their. parents, is not a parent. And my mother did a superb job. My father passed away five years ago. We're on the shadows of Father's Day. My mother did a lot with the three boys. As I used to say. You love and kill more than you love me. She said, no, I hate you all equally. And that's a fantastic line I'm going to use with my kids. But my father.

taught me everything. about how to be a father, how to be a husband, how to be a citizen. As did my mother. And I am who I am because of both of them. Not one of them. Fair. Totally, totally fair. I should have asked both Paramount to call you out because, you know, it's about equity at home. But if we only ask about the mother, we kind of let all of us off the table. I guess I was doing it because I was a and built prejudice,

but by the time and the fact he was a doctor. made me think that he would be out early in the morning. But totally fair point. No, but but you know, so I'm going to write a piece for the post. one day because people ask about my brothers and me and then, you know, eight lessons or whatever the number is. that I swore that I would never do as a parent, that I'm repeating everything my parents had done. I'll tell you one other thing that my mother did. So since you asked that, I think it was.

fundamentally, important to, two things she did. One, we never had a rectangle table at the kitchen table. It was a circle, so nobody would be ahead of the table. Everybody had a responsibility to speak up, be heard, etc.. Mom and dad were not the head of the table. Yes, we were the head of the family, not in the family. Discussion. Second, when you walked into our house, you didn't walk in the front door. You walked on the side door into the kitchen, right into the kitchen,

which is where the family was by about four feet in. was, the. refrigerator side of the refrigerator. And my mother put up our report cards. And until the next report card and whoever walked in the house. Family friend. Brutal. Brutal. Yeah. You will trust me. It's brutal. Ezekiel's your brother. Because you got straight A's. And let me just break the news to you. I was that was not my role model, okay?

And everybody saw. So if you got a D, which I didn't get, but if you got baloney as a result. The third thing she did. Did you do that with your kids? What we did a yes, we did a similar thing. Not like that, but a similar thing on Shabbat. Sabbath, dinner. Whoever did the best. that week on a math test or whatever, a history or play or whatever it was, Sabbath dinner, Shabbat, they got the star plate.

and they were allowed to invite or encouraged. a friend and the friends family to our family Sabbath dinner. And that was the honor you earned by doing something exceptional. The third thing my mother did that I think it was important for the three boys and. Was in the family room. There was a, my grandmother's priest got there purse. that had, Grandma Sophie,

anteater and goody bag. Gertrude, their math board to bring to the king, America at the turn of the century. And on either side were the black. and white photos of our family, my mother's side and my dad's side. Relatives. who never made it to America. And there was nothing subtle on a Jewish home. So it was my parents very clear to the three boys. This is an honor.

This is a gift. And you're not allowed to screw it up. That's if you do, you'll get the backside of our hand. And it was those three things the table, the report card. and the family room wall photos. Because those eyes stared at you, they stared into you. The responsibility and the gift of being an American. There's a rise. There's been a rise in anti-Semitism in America. Is America ready for a Jewish president? Well, first of all, I have a again, I know you find it shocking. It's like twist. I don't think there's been a rise.

but strain because there's always anti-Semitism. There has been. a greater exposure that people have a permission slip. to say what they used to say privately, say publicly. So I believe anti-Semitism always exists. It's now more. public than it's been in the past, where it was taboo. There's the taboo has been lifted. And people now not only taboo lifted are acting on it. I though also as a.

rom Israel manual, got elected to a congressional district that Dan Rostenkowski, Roman Kaczynski, Frank and Nunzio got elected to Bologna, which I do like. I didn't sit that profile. and they were 3% of the district was Jewish. They elected me. because I thought they had they judge me and they did that as mayor. It's 3%. So I've seen the best of, people look past, gender, ethnicity.

into somebody's character and their ideas, their energy, etc.. When we were in Tokyo, Amy and I, as ambassador, as ambassador, somebody spray painted. on our fence some ugly Nazi. Words, etc. and a neighbor, unbeknownst to me, still hasn't come forward. and cleaned it up for us within 24 hours.

So I have seen the best of I've seen the worst. I've seen. I've grown up with it in not only when I was a child, but I've grown up with it. And then I'll close on this one comment I grew up with it. My first independent political back. was when the neo-Nazis left and couldn't get a permit. Did not march in Skokie. I went to where they were going to go to Marquette Park, and my father said no.

And I said, dad, just because they're not next. door doesn't mean they can't be heard. And he got angry at me and says, I'm a schmuck. And he got in the car with me and we drove down to Marquette Park together. And that was. my first political act, not directed by my parents. And my father goes back to this, called me a schmuck, said no, fought me, got on the side of the car. and drove down to Marquette Park with me because.

those are sobs. They were next door, but I was never going to let them have the last word. So what did you do when you get when you got there? Well, we almost got the crap knocked out of us. and our life was threatened because of a lot of other things that are much longer. So I have to run. I love you, I think there's a great podcast. and we've learned that the podcast host is never wrong.

No, we've not learned that. That's not what I said at all. I've made many, many errors, but I'm not running for president. So there's slightly less all night out. And we get voted on every day. We get voted on every day. People either watch or they don't watch. I'm, I'm I'm to make a mistake. That's not a big that's not. I just don't want you to run on that. I'm just that can't be not compa your slogan. Everybody else. But I am going to be truthful, which is about life. The question is, can you learn from it? And I, I have learned from my own.

to this point, and I continue to hope that I continue to learn and never stop. All right. Well, thank you for joining us and I look forward to talking to you again. So what I want to know is, do. you think he is a plausible candidate for Democratic leadership? We had Governor Newsom on the show two weeks ago. Now we've had Rahm Emanuel. He's clearly eyeing up a run. Go to the comments on YouTube and let us know what you think. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and please share it.

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And don't forget whatever you are doing this week, be a beast. This podcast was produced by Devin Roger Reno, Annabelle Nelson, and it was edited by Jesse Millwood.