Why Everyone's Talking About Gwyneth Paltrow | The Daily Beast Podcast

Just talk a little bit about the darker side of GOOP. Well, if you have a chronic illness that needs serious medical attention. and you follow this advice to drink celery juice, your illness could get a lot worse. This is the fear that doctors and experts who I interviewed have is that GOOP. is sowing a distrust of Western medicine and established. science. I'm Joanna. Coles, chief content officer of the Daily Beast, and you are, I hope, in your kitchen cooking a gluten free goop recipe for pasta.

Because today we're taking a tiny break from the onslaught of crazy around. Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump and the scandal. that will not let the president out of its grasp. To talk about another polarizing figure, Gwyneth Paltrow, with her biographer. Amy Odell, who spent three years reporting on Gwyneth and spoken. to one 200 people about her. I can't wait to get into it. We'll be back on Saturday with Michael Wolff,

and I will challenge him with some of your comments that I interrupt him too much. We'll get into Trump's head again on Saturday, but for now, we're going deep into Gwyneth Paltrow's head with Amy Odell. Amy Odell, I'm so excited. to have you here in The Daily Beast podcast studio, because we used to work together at cosmopolitan. Yes. And I think we're going to talk about something. that we might have talked about when we were here at cosmopolitan. Well, we are we're going to talk about Gwyneth Paltrow and your book on her.

What is it? What's the official title? Gwyneth. The biography. Gwyneth. The biography. Okay. When like. Penn. Okay, okay. I never thought it was anything else. Okay. People call her Gwyneth. Gwen. Gwen. I know people get corrected. People have gotten corrected over the course of history. You mean in life because they met her? Or people who work for her? Okay, but to be fair, I don't like it when people call me Joanne. I would correct them if they called me Joanne. Sure.

So just set the record straight. And I have to confess, I love Gwyneth Paltrow. I've. I actually tried to do a magazine. with her at one point when we were first together, and I thought a goop magazine would be a great idea. I think she has tremendous style. I think she's terrific actress, and I once needed help with a young entrepreneur. I was working with, and Gwyneth was unbelievably responsive. And, I really I really like what she's done. But when I was telling people.

that you were coming in today and I was going to talk to you about it, a couple of them just went off and went, oh my God, I can't stand Gwyneth Paltrow. And I actually still I mean, I'm not saying I would take medical advice. from her, but I, I've bought lots of things from goop. I like her esthetic and I don't understand why she is so polarizing. So please explain. So I think the reason she's so triggering to people. Triggering good. Word. Yeah, is because she has spent.

her entire life in this very elite, glamorous milieu. Her godfather is Steven Spielberg. Her father was Bruce Paltrow. Various successful producer. mother, Blythe Danner, one of the great actresses of all time. And she grew up around movie stars. She had a bicoastal childhood, going from New York to LA. Sounds. Heaven. Sounds, yeah. Heaven. Always had money and a financial cushion and has never known anything else. her whole life. And I think what happens with her is she makes these comments.

where she kind of tries to get on the level of the average person. But she just can't because she's never had an average life. So can you give me an example. Yes. So for instance after she launched goop and people were. really kind of mad about the expensive products she was recommending, she said, well, I can't pretend to be somebody who makes $25,000 a year, okay. But was that the only or. Another good example she,

was talking about. why acting was not really such a suitable career for her. after she had kids, and she was trying to say that, you know, when you make a movie, you have to go somewhere and stay there from for months, and you work 18 hour days, and that's not great. when you have little kids, which that makes sense, right? We can understand that, right? But she also said something like, you know, it's easier if you have an office job, like if you're working 9 to 5.

And then people got really mad because. kind of the subtext was, well, it's much easier to just have an office job than a movie star. Like, no one knows. how hard it is for me being like this glamorous, Oscar winning movie star. So that was triggering to people to write. I wish she was filming. shallow, how she said something like, so she had to put on a fat suit. to be in shallow. How's you probably recall. And she would put on the fat suit and she would walk around just to see. I can't it. Yeah. I didn't see the movie, but I got the visual of what she looked like.

Well, now. You know what you're doing later today. No. Maybe not. But. So she would put on the. for you to walk around just to see, like, how people react to her, you know, like her practice for being in the role. Her method. Her method. Yeah. Not that she's a method actor because she's, like, very casual and, like, it's easy for her, but yeah, so she puts on the fat suit. to kind of like walk around and see what it's like. And people react very differently. They didn't know it was Gwyneth Paltrow in the fat suit. They just think it's a woman who is much larger than Gwyneth is.

And people would sort of like, skirt around her when she's walking without looking at her. She'd pass by teen girls. They would kind of like be snickering and, she could feel what it felt like to be in a body like that. And she said something in an interview like, every pretty girl should be forced to do that. Okay, so it's a little. cringe that some of her comments make her sound a bit out of touch. Yes, exactly. And I think that that's I think she's like to her credit,

like trying to kind of get on the level of someone who's had a more normal life, but she just can't because she doesn't know a normal life. It slightly reminds me of when Doctor Oz was running. for the Senate in Pennsylvania, and he said the problem. with people in Pennsylvania was they didn't eat enough crudités. There you go. Right. Similar. So she went on Doctor Oz and they had, like, green juice martinis together. We should have had a green g915. If you know. So. And actually it reminds me of a very good scene.

we had in The Bold Type, a show that was loosely, based on cosmopolitan. When someone gets a yoni stone stuck internally. and has to get a colleague to pull it out, which was based on a real life story. And of course, one of Gwyneth's famous, remedies for, I think, slack vaginal muscles was squeezing a yoni stone. That's right. Cackles with a yoni. That's what they said. But medical experts would dispute.

that this object could help with that. Right. And I think also there was something about you had to do it with the with. the full moon would be more effective if you did it with full moon. Yeah. Well, the person who wrote the article about the yoni egg. or the jade egg, that went viral and caused a whole big stir. She said in the story that when she uses her eggs, she likes to do a ritual where she, like, puts a blanket down. She has like a whole ceremony around it.

So that gave people a lot to talk about when it was published. Right. Have you practice that? Did you in research for the book Use the Yoni Stone? So I did buy a few things from goop. Beauty products. No wellness products. Yep. And they were nice. They were perfectly fine, but they're expensive, so it wasn't something I felt compelled to buy again. Okay, I will say in defense of Gwyneth, I love the things that go under the eyes. They're like, soaked in something. And the minute you put them under your eye, they you would not need to worry about this at your age.

But I worry about it. And they immediately sucked any kind of puffiness out. So I recommend those. And also she has a very good exfoliator, which is expensive. But she did do goop for target, which was much more reasonably priced. Good clean goop. Is that what it was called? I mean, I bought several of the products and I thought they were very good. and well priced. Yeah, but it didn't sell all that well, right? Did it not? It did not. The reporting this actually it was in fact.

But the reporting was that target had had the fallout. from their pride controversy and they lost money over that. Do you remember the. No. What were they had a pride collection. And and I think basically conservatives got really mad and were boycotting. Right. And Gwyneth's good clean goop line was supposed to come out around. that same time, and target didn't promote it because they didn't. want any more controversy, and they associated her with controversy. And I have to say, that was the only example. I think I found at a business entity sort of being wary of.

working with her and with goop because of all the controversy around her. But in general, brands don't care. They just want impressions. And she drives impressions. Right? Well, and she did a brilliant ad for astronomer. Yes. This weekend after, the, Coldplay. cam kiss cam saga, which was hilarious. Yeah. I mean, she. the thing I like about Gwyneth is that she has a sense of humor about herself.

She sort of understands that she is this very privileged, very attractive white girl who's had a ton of luck in her life. But she does have a sense of humor about it. Yeah, she she. Is not fair. Yeah. People say she's very charismatic. She's very fun to hang out with. She's very funny. So yeah, I think that's true. And then there's a lot of things she doesn't have a sense of humor about. Go on. Well, for instance, with the yoni egg, when Jen Gunter responded.

Well, she. Is an ob gyn. She writes a lot correcting health misinformation on the internet, these days. And, she writes about women's health. She's written several books. She's great. I'm sure we covered her at Cosmo. Yeah. I'm sure. She's very smart. She's a great writer. And she wrote a story about the egg that made the rounds. She was asked, you know, like Huffington Post says, hey, will you comment? So she comments, and Gwyneth was really triggered by her,

and she couldn't she couldn't just let it slide. And then she had a group of goop doctors who I don't know. if they were all actually doctors, but they call themselves doctors. Write a response, basically to Jen Gunter, but not not naming her. But it was clearly like in response to her and she tweets it out. saying when they go low, we go high. Using. Michelle Obama's famous quote from the Democratic National Convention. and people in the office, I was told,

we're like, Gwyneth, don't respond to this. Like, don't give it any air. But she just couldn't help herself. Something similar happened to when The New York Times. did a story about cookbook ghost writers for celebrities, and she had had My Father's Daughter, her first cookbook, come out. She collaborated with a really excellent. chef named Julia Turchin, who helped her put the recipes together. And so The times runs this story, and then she gets very upset. and she says, I never had a ghostwriter, like, Julia is not a ghostwriter.

And she goes on Rachael Ray, who was also named in the article. And they talk about how they didn't have ghost writers. But she did her. Oh, she had a co chef with the book. Well, yeah, she does credit Julia in the book. And it says, you know, that Julia helped. formulate the recipes and you know, it. says exactly what she did, but she didn't call her technically a ghostwriter. So why did you. Your first biography was about Anna Winter. Straight on the bestseller list. Hugely well-written props.

Congrats for that. What made you decide to choose Gwyneth as your next subject? Because you really have to spend a lot of time with these people. I mean, this is not something that you do in a couple of months. is something you really how long is it taking you to write year. So it's three years of your life. Yes. What made you decide? Gwyneth. Gwyneth has been in the public eye for 30 years. She's fascinating. She's polarizing. She's someone people have been magnetically attracted to.

She's had different phases of her career, and she's impacted. a number of industries entertainment, obviously fashion, beauty. And I think goop, her company served really as an archetype. for so many wellness companies and kind of helped build the modern. wellness industry. So I think she's had actual cultural impact, which few people have had. And you're right to your point about how you really have to live with the subject. For a long time, I spent three years on the book.

I interviewed more than 220 people to write it. Wow. People from goop, people who worked on her films, friends. Former friends. So, yeah, it is a big undertaking. What did you learn about her? Did you like. I mean, what was your attitude to her going into the book? It's almost honestly hard to remember because when you start researching it, you just kind of end up throwing your opinion of that person out the window. So I think I've always followed her. I have memories of being a teenager and watching her.

win her Oscar when she was 26 years old for. Shakespeare in Love. Yeah, for Shakespeare in Love in 1999. And I've always been a fan of her movies and her acting. I was aware of what she did it, girl, and how kind of what she did at goop. was what a lot of media companies, I think, wanted to do at that time. And I was also aware of the various controversies associated with goop. And of course, there's been so many profiles written about her. that you may have added in some of them over your career. Probably. Yeah.

And I felt like in doing the phone calls and all the interviews. that those profiles just barely scratched the surface of who she is. So what did you find out about her that you felt was fresh and new? What? Yeah. Why should someone read your book as opposed. to one of the many profiles, as you say, that have been written over the years? Yeah. So what really surprised me. about Gwyneth is that she's not the same person. that I read about in those profiles, or who I've seen on talk.

shows countless times, like so many people I talked to. who saw a different side of her go on, she can be cold, she can be aloof. She can be icy. People said she was like any busy editor in chief. Some people actually compared her to Anna Wintour. They said, you know, when she's running goop, and she really does run goop for anybody who thinks she might not be, she really is the CEO, which is unusual for a celebrity brand. But people say when she's running goop, you go into the office, into her office, and she might look up at you. She's busy. She just wants you to say your thing so you get your answer and move on.

Because she's a business person. She's running the company at the same time. She can be very warm, very charismatic. If she wants you to feel like you're her best friend, she can make you feel that way. And her acting experience really helped her in the business world. This was something I hadn't thought a lot about. But for instance, when she was raising money for goop, it's raised around $140 million. She could remember what to say in the investor pitches. and then deliver it perfectly like she's reciting a script.

Right. Or maybe she's play acting, a CEO. She's faking it until she makes it. I think she did fake it until she make it. But people told me she picks things up quickly, like whether she's learning archery for Emma, her 1996. first leading parts, or has to learn financial statements for goop. Like she really did learn that stuff. So is goop, because there's been various expectations. that goop was going to go public, that goop would get sold.

I know Goop Kitchen has now taken off, and I'm very excited. because it's about to come to new, which I frankly can't wait for. Where is she. with the state of the business right now? Yeah. So goop is privately held, as you know. So we only know a limited amount of information. Goop Kitchen, I think, could be an interesting model for goop moving forward. If Gwyneth decides she wants to spend more time acting. because she has a movie.

with Timothy Shalom coming out towards the end of the year. Marty Supreme. And goop kitchen. It's it's like a licensing agreement as I understand it. Her primary responsibility is to promote it. So she did that with other parts of the brand like beauty or fashion. She wouldn't need all the infrastructure. It wouldn't be so expensive. And I think it would free up her time to do some other things. And salons and Goop Kitchen is it's basically healthy takeout, right? I think so, yeah. I mean they have like a distinction where they, you know, they don't use. the ingredients that Gwyneth doesn't like, like gluten.

And I mean, gluten. is fine for the vast majority of people, but that is how they market it. And that's something that I think. she was really influential in, in terms of wellness, is giving wellness. a rhetoric and a language, talking about toxins and how, you don't want toxins in your body or in your food or in your environment, and then capitalizing on that by selling people products that were so-called. clean, like clean moisturizer, clean mascara, etc., etc..

Right. Okay. And what about her relationships? I mean, the thing that's also very, intoxicating about her. is her personal life. So if you think of Brad Pitt, Ben Affleck, Chris Martin, and now Brad Falchuk, those are for a exceptionally attractive. but be very successful and Ben Affleck notwithstanding, as normal. as you can be, given an extraordinary celebrity life.

Yeah, yeah. So I guess there's a different story with all of them. The Brad Pitt relationship was funny to hear about. because, as I said, she had this very elite upbringing. She ran in a very glamorous circle. And Brad Pitt comes from Missouri and, like, had a much more average upbringing. Came from a religious Baptist family. And he decides when he's in college, you know, I'm. going to head west and see if I can make it as an actor.

Whereas for Gwyneth, it was obviously much different. because she knew all the casting directors through her parents. Right? And they were really excited to audition her. and see if she was going to be the next Blythe Danner. So Gwyneth. felt like she had just a really different. background to Brad Pitt, which they did, like a bit of rock more. Yeah, like a more sophisticated upbringing. She thought she was smarter than him and people who observe them, so they just didn't really seem to have all that much in common.

I mean, they were both like famous, beautiful movie stars, but, yeah, she worked. She probably she may be smarter than him. Yeah. Oh. Sorry. And what about Ben Affleck? So they did Shallow Hall together, right? Or did they do a bounce together? They did. Sounds right. You need to go home and watch shallow House. Yeah, either a lot of Gwyneth repertoire to get through. Yes. They did bounce together but they were in Shakespeare in Love. before that. Right.

So after Gwyneth's relationship with Brad Pitt and they were engaged, you know, so they split was very public. The New York Post cover headline was like, it's the pets. Something like that. Clever. Yes. And, you know, their relationship was just everywhere. He accepted a Golden Globe and he called Gwyneth his angel. And she's sitting there at the table sort of like, you know, looking up at him. I'm like, oh my God. Like, he's so dreamy. And with Ben, she tried.

She said she wanted to keep it private. I mean, when she was filming a movie. and he would stop by and they were together. or in Shakespeare in Love, like people could tell that they were together. But it's. There's fewer pictures of them, like at an event together. And with Chris Martin. It's actually hard to find pictures of them together as a couple. That's interesting because they're married for a long time. There's paparazzi shots, sure, but they did avoid, like walking red carpets together because they didn't. want their relationship to be as much in the public eye.

Of course it was. Anyway. Right, because they're both so famous, but. They were that they had more, control over it. or tried to thoughtful about not overexposing it. Yes, exactly. I mean, in the way that J-Lo did with Ben Affleck. Yeah, I think that's fair to say. Right. And then what about Brad Falchuk, her current husband? So people say they're very in love and that he worships her. and they have a lot in common. They like fine dining, traveling,

and that they have a good relationship that could. Have fine dining and travel in common with somebody. That exactly. Like very strong things to have in, in common with someone. But I have seen her talking about him. and she seems to light up, and I find it funny. I remember once someone saying to her, how did you get a role in The Politician, which was the new Netflix show that Brad Falchuk, was writing? And she said, Because I'm fucking the writer. And there was a kind of, you know, collective gasp in the audience.

But she had a sense of humor about it, and I thought it was a clever answer. Yeah, she's clever. She can be very clever. But he, Yeah, I think with Ben Affleck, like one of the things she liked about him is that he's a writer. He wasn't just an actor reading lines. And this is what people said to me about Gwyneth, too. She she's really smart. And acting just became very easily to her. And it wasn't enough for her that it's boring for her to just be reading lines.

And that's why she likes doing goop, because she's. And there is a CEO and she's really running the business well. And I think she believes it. Right. That actually that right. Healthy living lack of toxins in the environment. And why not do something. And also she's got incredible style. We saw when she had the trial with the guy that tried to exploit her. with the skiing accident that, you know, she turned up. with those incredible gold frame, big glasses and everybody wanted them.

She had an oversize rock, so everybody wanted the immediately sold out. So she does have great style. I, funnily enough, I was with her at an event. earlier this year and she just looked phenomenal. And I just thought, well, I guess perhaps, you know, none of she, she seems to have unreachable levels of, of beauty. And taste. She has very good. Taste, very good taste. And I think that was important for the wellness industry too, which kind of adopted that aspiration, all luxurious esthetic.

And she bought an Upper East Side esthetic. to something which had been hitherto patchouli and granola. And, or maybe and, a montecito, a montecito esthetic these days, as it may be, but. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that very refined, tasteful, muted colors, goop gray. She didn't like brown, I was told, although brown is now trendy. Yeah, but she brought that esthetic and that helped create a community around.

goop. And now, you know, there's so many wellness brands that are just kind of copying that. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I think it's just those of it now. I think it's just a beauty brand anymore. Everything is like a beauty and wellness brand. or like a fitness and wellness brand. I think some hideous purpose, you know, it's got purpose driven, values driven. And you're like, yeah, you're any value here is to make money, right? And then, the other thing that she has is marketing chops, right? You think of her candle when she came out with this candle. Smells like my vagina, which was a pretty crazy thing.

to say on a candle, but immediately got her extraordinary publicity. Yeah, I think that's like the astronomer video that we saw from over the weekend. What I was told about that is that she thought it would be hilarious. that she created the candle with a guy named Doug Little, and they thought it would be funny, and the internet reacted. I mean, that's kind of how she built her audience for goop. by having these controversies, trying to plant them sometimes, not always successfully, because, as you know, it's hard to predict what's going to go viral on the internet.

So they had they. sometimes were able to plan things but quite often they weren't an example. Another example of them successfully planting something. Goop was launching a travel app and there was a media associated with it. So they needed to get a certain number of downloads. And Gwyneth said, I'll just call it g spotting, and then everyone will make fun of me. and we'll have all the downloads we need right there. And is that what happened? Yeah, that is what happened. Right. Interesting. So at the end of this three year marathon on Gwyneth Paltrow,

which is you say you speak to 220 people, that's a lot of people, to talk about one person. Did you like her? What did you come away with? What what was your. You know, what was your feeling about her? Yeah, I love her as an actress. I can't wait to see her movie that's coming out around Christmas time. I actually think she is a really savvy influencer. I think she's the original influencer.

She started goop in 2008 from her kitchen in London. It came out of her newsletter, right, that she was writing. when she was living in London with Chris Martin, and she was sending it back to friends in America. And it was like a double mansion because they had a mansion, and then they bought them one next door and they combine them. So she's sitting in her kitchen in her double mansion. She sends the newsletter out. It has recipes for turkey ragu and banana nut muffins. And it like obviously evolved into this other thing, with a lot more there. But at the time, in 2008, like you remember.

celebrities, her not leaning into building an audience online. Right? No they weren't. It was almost pre Twitter. Well it wasn't quite pre Twitter. We had Twitter, we had Facebook. We didn't have Instagram. Right. But she was doing early affiliate deals like with J.Crew. where she would wear the clothes in the newsletter and then people would buy them. and they would get you know, they would profit from that of ragu. Nobody called it affiliate then. And actors in particular were really kind of slow to come around to social media.

Now they do it much more, which they need to be doing. But it wasn't a given that entertainers would be building audiences online. So she was very early to that. and very early to saying, hey, why should I use my image to promote. another brand like, say, Lauder when I can use it to create my own brand? So I think all of that is very brilliant, and I think it's unfortunate that goop. published a lot of inaccurate health. information that people take seriously. So go on, just talk a little bit about the darker side of goop.

Yeah. So goop, I mean, the jade egg. Doctor Jen. Gunter, said, you know, it could cause you harm. It could give you an infection. Don't use it. And there have been a number of products, you know, that probably are expensive. They might not harm you, but they'll just waste your money that goop has sold. I think maybe what's a bit darker about it is they promoted. some experts who are really out there, or so-called experts, one of them, for example, and Anthony William, the medical medium.

Have you heard of him? No. So he says he has no medical training, and he says that he hears a spirit. in his ear who tells him how to diagnose people and give, like, advanced healing information. I think those are the words he uses. And he, he published a number of articles for goop. He helped start the celery juice craze, through goop, by saying celery juice could cure. various ailments and help heal your chronic diseases. Well, if you have a chronic illness that needs serious medical attention.

and you follow this advice to drink. celery juice, your illness could get a lot worse. So this is the fear. Lots of things could get a lot worse if all you're doing is drinking celery juice. Yeah. So this is the fear. that doctors and experts who I interviewed have is that goop is sowing. a distrust of Western medicine and established science. And, you know, they're not saying that health care is perfect, that the pharmaceutical industry is perfect, but we're not going to make it better with pseudoscience. And is there any suggestion that she and RFK Jr hang out?

I didn't hear that. But she doesn't denounce him when she's asked about him, and I think she's asked about him for obvious reasons, because he, too, is sowing a distrust of Western medicine and established science and experts. But she. says things like, I think he has some interesting ideas. She's not denounced him, but I don't I don't know if they hang out, but I think what he does is similar. It's like this wellness philosophy of like, there's toxins in our food and toxins in our lives,

and we need to get rid of them all the while they're cutting Medicaid. But, you know, the role of toxins. and like in a lot are forever chemicals, for instance, like, if we're not, we don't totally know all of the ramifications of that. But, one expert I interviewed, a public health expert, I interviewed, said something to me like, you know, you hear wellness people talking about how you have to avoid certain. ingredients in your food because you don't want to increase your risk of cancer.

But they never say, well, the HPV vaccine is really. actually effective way of preventing it. Preventing cancer. Yeah. It's so interesting. Well, and have you met her? Did you meet her in the process of the book and not. And if you did meet her, what how would you how would you react? Do you think. would you want to ask her lots of questions? Yeah. I think any other direction I would. I ran the other direction. She knows I'm here. I have nothing to hide. The book is out, obviously.

No, I wouldn't ask for a selfie either, because that's not my style. I think the the question I have for her is what motivates you? Like, why do like, why do all this? Aside from the fact that she's ambitious, which I think is a great thing, because that was the one question that I asked people. that I got all these different answers. Like some people said, it was money. Some people said she really likes being the CEO and running a business. So I could just got so many different answers. People had a hard time pinning that one down. Okay, my final question is a story that we actually wrote about.

already in The Beast, which is her favorite. I think it was her favorite sex position, which I feel like is two former. Cosmo ladies that we can discuss. But I believe it was with Ben Affleck. Can you go into it, or can you just. Sure. So she told. so I'm the Gwyneth, as I said, you know, the Gwyneth that her friend saw. and that many of my sources saw was different from the Gwyneth audiences.

saw, and particularly when she was doing like, Shakespeare in Love and Emma, she was playing these aristocratic, princess type characters. And her friends were like, she's she's not really like that at all. She's funny. She curses a lot. And as an example, someone told me that she told her former makeup artist, Kevyn Aucoin, that she loved when Ben Affleck t begged her. Should we just leave that to people's imagination? Sure. Okay. What's a good note on which to end? And if people want to find out what teabagging is and they don't already know.

or don't already practice it, they can buy your book to find out. Gwyneth Paltrow, the biography Amy Odell, congrats. Thank you. Three years of dogged work and. how does one describe it? The goop ification of Gwyneth or the Odell ization? The utilization of Gwyneth? Sure, I'll take it.

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation with Amy. I'm an unabashed goop fan, actually. I don't buy all the medical and that and the health stuff. But I do think that Gwyneth has a great esthetic. But Amy's book is a real. tour de force of reporting, and Gwyneth is a modern woman. who's really changed the modern approach to health, I think. And and Gwyneth is a thoroughly modern celebrity. who's embrace not only acting at the top of,

the acting tree. with her Oscar for Shakespeare in Love, but also started her own business, raised serious money, and at some point one expects her to have a serious exit. And in the meantime, she's made a candle that smells like her vagina. What more could one want? I can think of a few things. Anyway, thank you for watching. If you have been, don't forget to share this podcast with a friend. Please leave us a comment. We look at all your comments and as I said, we'll be challenging Michael Wolff.

to ask him if I really do interrupt him too much when he comes on on Saturday. And until then, beast, don't forget to subscribe. to the Daily beast.com for updates on everything that's going on right now. And please join me in a large round of applause for our producers, Devin Roger Reno and Yvonne Ersan and our editor, Jesse Millwood.