Why Elon Threw The Epstein Bomb at Trump | The Daily Beast Podcast

Well, this is an extraordinary day in politics. We've got the richest man in the world, Elon Musk, attacking. the most powerful man in the world, Donald Trump. And now just firing salvos at each other. Elon Musk has now introduced the theme of Jeffrey Epstein. He said, Mark your calendars, basically saying there will be blood. who better to talk to about this than the man who foresaw this meltdown coming? It's Michael Wolff.

He's back for an emergency. Daily beast podcast. Michael, when we last spoke, less than 24 hours ago, we were waiting. for Donald Trump to respond to Elon Musk's. criticism of the big, beautiful bill. Now we seem to be into a full on. WWE fight, explain what's going on. You know, well, as as we discussed.

yesterday, everybody comes a cropper with Donald Trump and Donald Trump. Donald Trump is going to screw you and you're going to be screwed. So there has never been someone in a position to try to screw. Donald Trump back. And so we have a new paradigm. The richest man in the world and the most powerful man. in the world, locked in, a blood feud. And who's going to win? could go either way.

It has escalated into, into the into. nuclear territory within the last, what, 30 minutes? Right. And as we're talking, Elon Musk has just fired back. at Donald Trump, who accused him of missing the glamor of the white House. I mean, you made a very good point. In the podcast we dropped today, actually, earlier saying no one leaves the white House voluntarily. Donald Trump then today, possibly having heard you, makes the point that Elon already misses the glamor of the white House.

This is what happens when people leave the white House. there was a carefully. on the part of the white House, no suggestion. that Elon had been forced out, that Elon had been fired. I mean, this is the way, men of affairs do this. They there is. No you are fired. There is no, reality show denouement, but now Trump is saying, yes, I fired him. We pushed him out. Forget him.

But Elon today drops an absolute bomb. It may not be a total nuclear bomb that's in Trump's camp. But he dropped the bomb of Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. What does he mean nuclear. I mean, I think it has been, you know, it is that that I mean, the issue that. I'm particularly interested in because because I've been involved in actually, I've been the one who has dropped the bomb or tried to drop the bomb. because it's absolutely true. I mean, Donald Trump that here is the, the story. hiding in plain sight for a very long time now.

Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. were the best of friends for, a very long time. For 15 years. They shared girlfriends. They shared airplanes. They shared, business strategy. They shared, tax advice or actually actually, they shared. how to not pay taxes. They were inseparable. and as I've said, the Daily Beast podcast and in other venues,

I have seen the pictures of Donald Trump. and Jeffrey Epstein's girls together. last November, just before the election. We ran tapes, that you had provided us of Jeffrey Epstein talking. extremely intimately about Donald Trump. What are the specifics in the files that they won't release? mean, the files and I don't know if if Elon knows.

You know, the idea of files may be. I mean, it may be something specific, including those pictures. which were, in all probability, in the safe when the FBI came. and, and raided Jeffrey Epstein's house after he was, arrested. So, perhaps that's. one of the things that that Elon is very specifically referring to. But I think in general, it is it could also be the Epstein file writ large.

in the, the, the scope of of the Jeffrey Epstein life. intersects with the Donald Trump life. in a very meaningful and profound way. These guys kind of made each other. And he. Donald Trump is obviously very sensitive about this relationship. Now. Completely actually, when interviewed Trump at one point. and, you know, they sort of the, the people around him ask you, you know,

just give us an idea of the topics. And I gave a whole bunch of topics and including Epstein. and all of the other topics, they said, fine, but. but if you ask about Epstein, he will end the interview and you won't get anything. Have you ever spoken to him about Epstein? I said once to him, oh, we know someone in common. Is the one. person you don't want to have in common, right.

So, I mean, you predicted that this would happen. And 2 or 3 months ago when we spoke, and I said, if it comes down. to it, between Elon and Donald Trump, who will win? And you said Donald Trump. What's fascinating here is they've both. got their own social platforms that they can go after each other on. and as you said, we've got the richest man in the world. now going after the most powerful man in the world. And one of the things that we have talked about and I find so puzzling, is that nobody seems to stand up to Trump, And finally, we have Elon,

which may turn out to be his gift to the world. Standing up to Donald Trump. nobody goes after Donald Trump because he'll kill you. Because he is, he has the ability to do. Well, just think about Ron DeSantis. Ron DeSantis. tried to stand up to Donald Trump in a in a very procedural electoral way. I'm going to run against you. Boom. He destroyed Ron DeSantis. Well, Ron, Ron DeSantis arguably also destroyed himself.

I mean, he went after Disney. He's not a charismatic politician, though. He's an able politician. certainly not a charismatic politician, but he's a perfectly ordinary politician. Who who in this in the scheme of things, was a plausible contender. Certainly. He he has his numbers in Florida. in virtually everyone up until a certain point, regarded, Ron DeSantis as a certainly. as a, as a potential Trump killer until Trump kills him.

I mean, he just literally went out and pulverized him Write. all of this. I mean, what we understand now as Ron DeSantis lack of charisma, more than a lack of charisma, the worst politician. in the history of bad politicians is all Donald Trump's doing. So. And he will now, I mean, two things will either happen. he will go after Elon in that same way. and we will see if Elon then can, you know, has.

the, has the chops, the fortitude and the gift to go after, Donald Trump. and then it's a game or this is. both guys going to the nuclear brink, and then they will. then they will back off and there will be some negotiation and settlement. right? It was pretty interesting that Elon said you would never have got elected. without my money. The Democrats would have won the House. There should be a third party.

Maybe I'm going to finance a third party. Totally just, extraordinary. I mean, we are possibly walking through a new portal. into something that we, that we have not that we have never seen before. and it is that and, you know, I think we have to say this on, you know, we've always talked about the power of money in politics, might really be the power of money and politics. And the fact they've both got their own social platforms.

you said literally on podcast that we drop today Yes he's the president. He's also running Truth Social. And this is the perfect vehicle for him. perfect and again, remember part of Trump. now, stepping forward to go after Elon. is that Trump is saying, fantastic, bring it on. Write. this is what what I live for. This is what has has made me give me an enemy. Okay. What's a bigger enemy than Harvard?

I was just going to say Alan Garber, president of Harvard, must be exhaling. that the attention spotlight from Donald Trump has moved swiftly onto Elon Musk. Also hard to know with Elon's unpredictable behavior. what he does now and who's advising him and whether or not his Tesla board. or his big Tesla shareholders are going to say to him, Elon, you need to back off. This is not a race you can win and would he listen to him? I mean, Elon and Trump are in, in that sense, evenly matched.

Who advises them? Well, nobody really. They advise. They advise themselves. you know, it occurred to me when Elon started to go after, the big beautiful bill and call it an an abomination or, or or whatever. I thought, oh my God. You know, Elon is Zelensky. and this is exactly what got Zelensky into trouble in the Oval Office. and I think that that's true. I think somebody coming after Trump in that way cannot be ignored.

He's going to go after that person. He's going to he's going to go to try to kill that person. and that's obviously what's happened. But again, the issue is, has he ever gone. after someone with the resources of Elon Musk? And also, is there a diabolical possibility. that Elon is doing this to win back all those Tesla customers that.

walked away, that walked away from Tesla? Well, we know that Tesla sales have dropped by 50% in Europe. If you were a conspiracy theorist, you might. think, oh, Elon is doing this on purpose. If you were a smart Democrat, you would immediately start courting him. You want the money, you want his support, and he can somehow. absolve himself of all the work he did at Doge. Well, I think it's also also that Elon is like Trump. I he understands the value of an enemy.

and Trump is a pretty good enemy. Well, we've got two extraordinary dinosaurs fighting each other now. It's like a triceratops and a Tyrannosaurus rex. And you're like, well, they've both got, different powers. Now and, and one of the things I just got getting email after email. after email about people asking me if in the Doge data collection, they have gotten a hold of Epstein. material maintained by, the government or the FBI.

Has Doge delved into the FBI? I thought it was more concerned with sort of USA and the Education Department. think the the point is, Doge is everywhere. those is all powerful. So if you. Elon, you could have left all sorts of little tech bombs waiting to go off. I'm straining at the edges in my imagination here to try. and think what could have been in that safe. that would be so damning to Donald Trump, because there is still a sense.

that he could stand, as he once predicted, on Fifth Avenue, and shoot someone and nobody would care. Well, I mean, I think that that is that that is the point. I mean, I remember, Steve Bannon said to me, if there were ever photographs. and this was specifically related to the Russian investigation, Trump would merely say, that's not me, that's somebody right. Fake news. And, and I think that that is probably true. I mean, what why? I mean, this hasn't been pinned on him yet.

Why should it now be pinned on him? But but who knows? Elon could have a whole team at grok. AI now just working on imagery, convincing imagery of Trump. And how would we know Yeah. No, and I, I and listen, I have seen these pictures. I know that these pictures exist and I can I can describe them. There are about a dozen of them. The ones I specifically remember is, is the two of them. with topless girls of an uncertain age sitting on Trump's lap.

and then Trump standing there with a, with a stain on the front of his pants. and 3 or 4 girls, kind of bent over in laughter. Their topless two pointing at, Trump's pants. Got. It's the ultimate in toxic masculinity. This right now, isn't it? well, it would be interesting if, if, you know, toxic masculinity on this side, kills or cancels out toxic.

masculinity on this other side. Yeah. I think we need RFK junior to the rescue with the vaccine. With an anti vaccine. Michael. Excellent to check in with you. Will be coming back to you the minute, this escalates. And indeed, as you say, they've both deployed the nuclear option. Who knows what's happening next. Nice to see you. As always. Well, what an extraordinary day. The richest man in the world, going after the most powerful man in the world.

And Michael Wolff has brought extraordinary insight to this story. I should point out the white House repeatedly say about Michael. that he's a blithering idiot, a sack of shit, and he fabricates things. who could have made this story up? It's extraordinary. We'll be back with updates. Stay tuned. Subscribe to The Daily Beast to make sure you do not miss anything. Daily beast.com. Subscribe to this podcast. We'll be back with Michael Wolff and his updates.

Thank you for joining us. This podcast was produced by Devin Roger Reno. and Van Hearse, and it was edited by Jesse Millwood. And remember Beast.