Why Creepy Trump Keeps Hiring Melania Look-alikes | The Daily Beast Podcast

In effect, the whole Trump presidency is a break from the presidency. I'm Joanna Coles. You're listening, watching or jousting to the Daily Beast. podcast on I'm here with Donald Trump's brain worm. Yes, the obscenely best. selling author, Michael Wolff, who is deep inside Donald Trump's brain. and will be bringing us more explanation of that very strange gray matter. But today we're talking about. one of my personal obsessions, and that's the women around Donald.

Trump, the women in the white House who look very Stepford wife to me. They all look the same, and yet they have very distinct roles. So I'm fascinated by Natalie Harp, aka the Human Printer, because she literally drives around the. golf course with a Wi-Fi printer, printing out good news for the president. and of course, Laura Loomer, her new best friend. So let's get into it. Michael, welcome back.

Last time you were on the podcast, as many people commented on YouTube, you talked about this fascination that Donald Trump has with a. sort of bygone era and part of that bygone era, a sort of white America where white men were supreme, is the women who are around him and what they look like. And I wanted to get into it because with Melania in absentia.

and Ivanka disappeared, he still nevertheless. got a group of women around him who look like younger versions of them. They all look remarkably similar, and they all feel like contestants. from the competition he used to own Miss Universe. Well, a little bit. Let me do. I have a curious slight backstory here, because when I was, when I, when I was writing my first book about about Trump Fire and Fury,

I was in the white House for about seven months. Some. I had a kind of carte blanche was watching everything. this, this, this show, unfold literally before my eyes. Sometimes I would just sit on the on the couch in the in the West. Wing waiting to see someone for the next appointment. And at one point, seeing this, trying to absorb all this, I texted my wife,

and, and I said, do you think it's unusual that every woman that I see here. has, has long hair. worn down, skirts above the knee, and this was in the winter, and, and high boots. It's the uniform. I mean, literally every single one. And, and most of these were, were, were young women and young women, but there was Kellyanne Conway.

looking at looking the same, just just significantly older. And yes, my wife confirmed that this would be highly unusual for, for every woman in, in office to be dressed like this. And I would add that they're all surprisingly attractive. I mean, it's very unusual to walk into any political office. and find the women, and perhaps I'm going to be, I'm going to get a lot of hate for saying this, but. but they well, they look like models. They look like beauty contests.

And certainly many have been many have been models. You know, one of in the, in the first administration, the, the, the, the pivotal, the kind of head girl, was Hope Hicks, who actually had been a model and then had been in the PR business. And there's always this connection he makes between. between being good looking and being in the PR business, because then you're you're a face, you're a your, your front looking.

And she had been working for Ivana in, in Ivanka's fashion business. Yes yes yes. And then was taken into politics. Afford for she had no other qualifications. except that she look the part which didn't know anything about politics. She never worked in politics, had never worked in government. I remember I remember talking to Hope Hicks. because when she came out of the white House, and we can go into why, but she did the rounds looking for a job. when she came in to talk to us. And at the time, I think I was chief content officer of Hearst Magazines.

And I was struck by how incredibly attractive she was. She was playing with her hair the whole time, but she also seemed very nice. And she described her life, attending to Donald Trump. She had to be in the white House at 5 a.m. every morning, and she said she woke up at 3 a.m. every day. She went to bed at 8 p.m. it sounded like a very lonely life. But because she'd been an athlete, I think she was a hockey player, actually, she said she was used to getting up early to get on the ice, and that she would.

be in the office by 5 a.m., but she got up every day at 3 a.m. it seemed like a very monastic, weirdly monastic. Well, I think I think most people around, I mean, Donald, it's hard to work for Donald Trump. I mean, he's a he is very demanding of people's time. And that's really is my I own your time. You have to be here, and you have to be at my beck and call. That's I mean, that's essentially the job of all of the women and to some extent,

the men, but specifically, all of the women anticipate his needs. So they they become this, this, I you, you know, it's hard. It's it's not just a support system. It's a kind of comfort blanket. I mean, there's there's a view certainly within. many of the people in the white House who have spent many years now. speculating on, on this that he is.

and this is the term they use post sexual. Right. But the he's gone from the days when he would call up the New York. Post and say, Marla maple says I'm the best sex she's ever had. Yes. Exactly right. He's now post sex. Right. And, you know, I mean, because because the, the people around him, if I wondered about this and they've worried about this, and what's he doing and with whom? And then they kind of. I've come to this understanding that he's not really doing anything. But one of the things he is doing is populating this his world.

with, with women who he, I suppose in another life or at another, another stage of life might have been involved with. I mean, they look like Melania, in fact. And so they're a kind of, I mean, a kind of, you know, sexual surrogacy in its own peculiar fashion. Well, and again, it's performance. So it looks like he's an older. man who can attract these much younger, very good looking, very well.

put together women, which signals something to his base. No audience. Yeah, yeah. Two, two stories. I mean, during the, during the his criminal trial in, in New York, the stormy down stormy, the Stormy Daniels, trial, the first thing there were. several women from the first administration who. who testified, Hope Hicks,

a woman by the name of Madeleine Westerhout, who had been his, I guess, really sort of personal assistant, kind of secretary ish, until one night she got drunk and, and started to gossip about the family, about the Trump family. And then was was immediately fired. So those two women testified, and then the other women were sitting. in, in, in the courtroom next to him. Natalie Harp, Margot Martin, Elina Harbor,

and and, you know, made me a very, very present and very unusual. to see all of these women all dressed the same. And after the trial, I spoke to one of the members of the jury, and the jury that convicted him, by the way, on all our all counts. And, and so I was sort of going over what, what this juror saw felt what the reaction, of the of the what he could tell me.

about the entire, jury, and, and among the things that he singled out, he said we were all creeped out by the women around him. They were creeped out. Yeah. You know what I mean? Meaning, you know, the first thing this was a. this was a trial, essentially about a sexual, issue offense, circumstance and, and here were all of these women who obviously suggested.

some kind of near. fetish is a fetishistic interest. So they felt they felt that. I mean, he felt that this, that this was a, that this became. one of the influences on this, on this juror jury, obviously, it supported the entire idea that this was, You know, well, yes. Another of Donald Trump sort of expressions out there.

So the first one is the jury were creeped out by the fact that Trump. was surrounded by women, all of whom look the same. Yes. And then there's, when when he was during his legal. the legal mess that was unfolding during the campaign. and he put together a legal team, I mean, a really third rate legal team, and and he, he he would admit this. I knew at least 2 to 2 people. I know that he that he told this story.

He said, yeah, you know, my, my, you know, I may not have the greatest lawyers. in the world, but then he would take out his phone. and show a picture of of, of several of the women on the team. And he said, but I have the hottest lawyers. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. All right, so back to Natalie Harp, who's also pretty hot. Yeah. No, I mean, Natalie, who is a key function in this white House.

She is one one of an maverick. She may be the most direct conduit to Donald Trump if you want. If you have if you have Natalie Harp's number, you can speak to the president virtually at any time. We should find Natalie Harp's number. I'm sure it's in your phone. And we should blast it out so everybody can call Natalie Harp apps. Absolutely. Michael. Where did she come from? She she was. she had a on air, a minor on air.

role at the third rate, the fourth level conservative network. One one media. Yeah. One. And, and she, she was ill and, with a disease, the story seems to change from. From who? From who you hear it from. There are many versions of what she was ill with. But, during the first administration,

there was, there was an in. an initiative, a presidential order, I don't remember, but anyway, clearing the way, for the use. in some instances of experimental drugs, enabling her to get some, some particular drug that cured her. And then so she wrote to Donald Trump saying he had saved her life, which. would be a very appealing to anybody, but particularly Donald Trump. Yes.

And then she got a speaking berth at the 2020 Republican convention. that was a virtual convention, as you might remember, during Covid. I blanks it out who had totally forgotten that. But of course, and then in 2022, early 2022, she came on to the campaign as the, you know, as the, you know, the stepping Fetchit girl, the the source material on the gala.

Oh, there we go. Yeah. Get me a cup of coffee. Right. The get me a cup of coffee, girl. And, but one of her jobs. then was also to run the printer. So Trump doesn't really, Trump does not use famously, does not use email, which has protected him from numerous, numerous legal, situations. And he doesn't really use a computer. And, and even his use of the phone is, is pretty, pretty limited.

So he likes things printed out. Now, that's also ironic because I read anything but. but he gets things printed out, and he in the hand he holds. Yes, yes. And so she had the portable printer. and she would follow him on the golf course. She would have her own golf cart, golf, golf cart, running the printer and on from whole, the whole.

She would then be printing out, emails and then increasingly, stories that she thought he should see. And, and these were usually feel good stories. Oh, this this, yeah. You know, this weirdo website, there's some, you know, there was a lot of fans. stuff, you know, people would draw pictures of Trump, which he. he liked to see those, she became the keeper of that. And from that point,

she became the keeper of almost everything. Everything he saw. You didn't get information to Donald Trump unless it was. It was funneled through Natalie Harp's printer. And where does she set? Does she have an office in the white House? She sits right outside of his office. So right outside the the the the Oval Office. So she's the literal and figurative gatekeeper. Yeah. And she earned the role herself by being the coffee go by being the coffee.

grown, by being able to make a comfort blanket, make him feel good. And then within the. campaign and, and she was there was enormous animosity, with, with the other campaign staffers because she had such control of him. And then and then they would say she feeds him his uppers and downers, so really controlling the mood and the mood was controlled through media. I'm giving you, you know, I'm giving you good media.

Good thing now I'm giving you this, this thing that. that has been horrible thing. that has been said about you and Michael Wolff said about, you know, oh, the Daily Beast said about you. And so traditionally a role that might have been played by a wife, I mean, not. necessarily filtering all the information, but the idea of soothing him. Yeah. No, I mean, I think this is, you know, remember, and as we've discussed before, Melania is absent, you know, the time she spends with the president,

you know, I mean, I think it's, I mean, reduced to the absolute minimum necessary. to sustain the illusion of a marriage undone. Does Melania appreciate the work of someone like Natalie up, and she just grateful that Natalie is taken on this? What I imagine I think you fillable. Well, I think it's probably. both things, I think. I think she probably sees a completely inhospitable environment for her at this,

at this time, because it's an environment filled by other surrogates. of, of the, of the, of the wife role, role. There is no place for her. No, I mean assume I guess she could come in and sweep. everyone aside, but I think this and that marriage is long past that. She probably then said, okay, I don't there's no room for me here. And you know, and I'm grateful not for there not to be.

any demand that I be there. Okay, so that's Natalie Harp. What about Elina Harbor, his lawyer, who was his lawyer during the Stormy. Daniels trial and also looks like one of the Trump women. Yeah, and she would be one of the people in the. in the the photograph he holds up. My lawyers are my lawyers are are hot. And she is now the, she's the federal prosecutor in, in new Jersey. Now, I cannot tell you how a, how.

I mean, among the many lawyers, in the Trump circle who have assumed, high position. and enormous power, who are of questionable qualifications, she is the least qualified, and, and there was, I mean, she. she met him at the, at the her, her husband owns parking garages. In new Jersey. Right. Parking garages, new Jersey.

Oh, right. And, and they're members of the golf club Bedminster. Stone Golf Club and, so this this the story, the story went that, you know, she was by the pool in a bikini, and that's how how she met Trump. So, like one of his beauty contests. Yeah. So Miss Universe, so, you know, I was I had this information. I called her, I called her up, and, and she said.

And she said, that is absolutely untrue. I will sue you if you say that. But she. said she said I am a member of the well of the Bedminster club. I love the Bedminster club. I do have a bikini. I love the pool. So I was like, okay, confusing, very legalistic. Answer. Yes. And, and then she, she she took on a series of,

of, of legal tasks, mostly that other lawyers did. not want to take on, like, you know, suing his niece. I mean, a whole lot of things that, that, that respectable lawyers would not do. You know, lawyers are all basically, you know, they have their clients, but then they have their reputations. Okay. She was willing to do these these things, a whole series of motions and cases.

that were then thrown out. But she became more and more central and he would push her forward. He also liked her, liked her to be out front. So whenever there was a court thing and I remember. Trump use these court appearances to enormous, public. advantage, and they became part of his campaign. And if. Absolutely. And she was out there, she looks she looks looks the role. So she looks like she's someone from Law and Order, which is what his base is.

probably watching. Yeah. No, he I mean, that's a big thing with, with Trump. A lawyer should be like a lawyer on television, right? I mean, I remember you saying that he sort of yelled at them. Do you not know what Perry Mason would have done it? Yeah. Do you know Perry Mason is right? But but she was, she was a terrible lawyer, and, and then he would yell at her, I mean, in vicious, horrifying ways. I mean, you just just cringe.

During the Carol trial, he would aging Carol. Right? And obviously, that was a catastrophe. And for Trump, it was a catastrophe for Trump. Yes, yes. And there and there was there was a moment when they were going to, they were trying to introduce certain evidence, and she failed at that. And then he, you know, quite in public, reamed her out in front of the, in front of the court, but then made her go out anyway. And, and,

and be the smiley face in front of, in front of the camera. So what she gets from that? Oh, and then, she had actually wanted to be the press. secretary, the spokesman, the Caroline levied job. She didn't get that, Trump. Too old. She's old. Of course, she's somewhat. I mean, she's not she's not an old in any, in any respect, but too old for that, for that job. And but then she got this job running the, you know, as the federal prosecutor in new Jersey, I mean, extraordinary.

So, Polina Harper, Natalie. Harper, the human printer, who's Margot Martin, I am struck whenever I see her by. how similar she looks to Melania, except she's 20 years younger, right? The Daily Mail is always confusing. That famous name for famously, right? Well, she does look just like she's got beautiful, long chestnut hair. She's incredibly attractive. And within the white House, they. Oh, within the white House, they were always grateful for that, that.

that confusion because it made it seem like Mila. Not you see, right. That's funny. So who is Marg? I just, you know, in as an assistant attender, you know, again, a part of this comfort blanket staff. What official function does she have? What does she actually do? You know, I mean, it kind of comes under the the broad heading of comms. You know, you know, again, the sense is all his presidency is again,

endless comms and and also the, the the, the link that he always makes between. pretty girls and PR. and then we have which is not incidental to him. I mean, PR is, is I mean, he acknowledge it. I mean, I mean, he is open in his understanding. and his, in his, yeah. You know, I'm transparent about how important that is to him.

I mean, during the, during the campaign and during the trials, it was always my, my legal strategy is my PR strategy. My PR strategy is my legal strategy brought in by Roy Cohn. Yeah. It's so interesting listening to the backgrounds of these women around Trump, because you think of all these students who've come out, you know, doggedly. studying political science at Georgetown, and they've spent, you know, several years interning for some godforsaken senator. in some state, hoping that they will squeeze into politics somehow.

And in fact, it turns out that if you just carry a printer around on a golf court, on a golf cart, that that's actually the way to get hired these days. And, you know, and I think the recommendation, part of the recommendation here is that you know nothing about about this, I mean, and, you know, maybe you can you can actually create. some, some, some deeper rationale. I mean, we don't want politics. We're against politics, we're anti.

politics, we're anti politicians were anti-Washington. All of that which is anti elite universities, which is which is which is true. So we want we want people to work for us, who know nothing about politics, who have no interest in politics. And have all gone to some godforsaken college that you've never heard of. Well, one of those people. And that leads me perfectly to Laura Loomer, who is the ultimate outsider determined to become an insider,

constantly running around telling people what influence she has with the president. Does she have influence and what does he make of her? Okay, well, the, operational operationally, everybody is trying to keep Laura Loomer out except for Natalie Harp. So and as I said before, Natalie is the most direct conduit. She and Laura Loomer have bonded in some in some,

in some way of friendship or. or just convenience and, and that's how Laura Loomer comes. It comes in, she calls Natalie. She's in, and the president likes her. Why does he like her? Where does she come from? She's. Well, she's 30 years old. She looks the part. She's on television often. if you're Donald Trump. Well, that's the trifecta, right? I mean, I mean, what's not to like? She's Trump's point of view, but the others seem less ideological.

Like we don't get a sense that Marco Martin or Natalie Harp. are in it for anything other than proximity to the presidency, whereas Laura does seem to have an ideological drive. Yeah, no, I obvi obviously are some. I mean, some some some drive. Some drive. Right. And she's, she's very MAGA, whereas you but she's very that's what. he doesn't necessarily see it that way either. He sees it. She's very television.

She's good television. So so that that's amusing to him. I mean, he's not hiring her, and then she's not. He's not bringing her into the white House. She's not part of his, of his, comfort staff. Although, although there were, there were, there were constant rumors through the campaign. But I think that those were started by by, by various. there was an agenda behind those, those rumors to as far as I know,

that she was more than a confirmed, I guess, or a very comfortable blanket. But, but I, you know, I think that she just comes in. and she amuses him, and she comes in through through Natalie. Well, and to be fair, if you're in that job, there must be moments when you need amusing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that that would be. That is conventionally true.

I mean, you think of King's having, you know, jesters, right? But the but the that's that suggests. that Trump is spending time, you know, in, in a serious pursuit of his duties. Right. What is in fact, is everybody has to take a break from, you know, in, in, in effect, the whole Trump presidency is a break from the presidency. And then, of course, there's. the mother of them all, Susie Wiles, who looks completely different, who is a grandmother and gives off very grandmotherly vibes,

or, oh, an anomaly in this, an important anomaly. And, you know, that she manages to step in there. And I think the fact that she looks the way she does, in in 2006, 16, she was running Florida. He didn't know her. You know, she had been brought in to to to run this well. And she was working with DeSantis, wasn't she, Ron DeSantis?

She had not gone to work for DeSantis yet. She was there. She was a Florida political operative brought in. to run the state of Florida for and for Donald Trump. This, and then he went to Florida and, met her. for the first time and, you know, whatever conversation they had. And then he left and he said, looks like a refrigerator. Get rid of her. That's why he's. Yeah, she looks like a refrigerator.

Get rid of her. Yes. Oddly, she does wear a silver dress. It's like a light blue silver. I don't know, you know, there is something in his head. He hits these. He hits these? Well, he's looking at it from the point of view of a casting director. Right? This is all casting, right? But even the words there is, there is something riveting about this. Somehow he hits it. He gets all Susie Wiles. I mean, because she's obviously an extremely effective operator and.

Yes, and anyway, she was not fired. And and they went on to flip the state of Florida. I mean, really to one. Yes. And then she came, she, she. was in the same role for 2020. And then after after, after he lost and returned to Mar-A-Lago. Jared, who did not want to be the president's. keeper and, administrative assistant and, you know, he saw off staff,

he saw the role there and said, I gotta get me out of here. He brought Susie Wiles in to do that. And she proceeded to do it and, well, do it. in a way that he doesn't notice, which is which is really what he wants in that, in that job. What relationship do the women have to each other in the white House? Because you say that everybody, all his advisers, hate each other. His cabinet ministers hate each other.

It's a fight for his attention to the women. Get on. Is it a support of environment or are they? You hate each other? I mean, I mean, it's a it's a competition. He is always protecting them against against one another. Always choosing one over the other. And you have to fight for his. I mean, that's what you're doing. You're fighting for his attention. And and the one who who who who gives him.

what he most wants is the one who is closest to him. And the one who is closest to him is is, Everyone else. understands that they are not the closest to him. So, I mean, it's so interesting. hearing all this, and I want to do another episode. purely on the family, actually, and his kids in particular. But it's very noticeable that Jared and Ivanka.

are not around second time around. I mean, they they've made it clear they don't want it. even because publicly said politics is not for her. It's too poisonous. She doesn't like it. What did they know that everybody else did? Well, I think that's the question. And that's sort of what what, you know, if I were one of those people. who now in the white House, I would say, wait a minute, I'm here. And the guy who knows everything is not here. So what's what am I missing?

And and I think it's true. I think they know everything. You know, they went through that first, that first white House. They saw him at his most precarious. Precarious in the way that he could have gone down. and could have taken them down with him, or almost did on any number of occasions. And, and they went into this saying and went into this second, second, third campaign saying, you know.

No, I mean, you know, you don't want to get you don't want to tempt fate like that. And of course, I'm remembering now, Ivanka. testifying during the January the 6th testimonies. Right? I mean, they saw, they saw I mean, I mean, they were they were they're under, I, you know, I'm, I mean, absolutely no illusion. about what happened here, about about certainly about the election.

denial, about January 6th, but about so much else also. So I and I think that they that this is, that this they have. literally run in the opposite direction and of course, let's not forget. the several billion dollars that they've accrued in the process. All right. So we need to come back and do another, another podcast purely on the family. Do you promise to do that? Every time I talk to you? I have just so many more questions.

Yeah. Let's do it. So my takeaway from my call this week is just that fight for Trump's. attention and how stressful that must be when you are in the white House. or when you're working with him just clamoring for his attention, that sun. beaming on you because it's the only thing that counts or gives you validation. And of course, the fact that it's a zero sum game. if someone else has his attention, you don't.

So it's government by gimmick and government by attention. If you have been. Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. Just go to the Daily beast.com. Leave a comment, on YouTube if you can, for us, because we read them, they're incredibly helpful. and they inform what we think about doing the following week. And don't forget beast. This podcast was produced by Devin Roger Renault, Anna Von Ersan, and it was edited by Jesse Millward.