What Trump's Rant About 'Hate' Tells Us: Kara Swisher | The Daily Beast Podcast

Did you have any thoughts on Donald Trump saying that he actually didn't. like his opponents, hated his opponents and didn't wish them well? Well, you know, it's him. He was describing himself. At least he was truthful, right? But I think that was the absolute truth about himself. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. And what a weekend. I don't know where to start. We have the Jimmy Kimmel of it all. We have the tick tock of it all, and then we have the Erica Kirk of it. all, who yesterday emerged as a remarkable figure giving a 30 minute speech.

at her husband's memorial, which I think spun her onto the landscape. of the American viewer in an entirely new way. And I can't help wondering. if we've seen a new direction for the Republican Party anyway. Who better to talk to about all these issues and more? In fact, she's going to throw in some tips about longevity, which she's been studying recently. But the broadcast of the podcast of the best selling author.

Kara swisher. Kara swisher started her career as a tech journalist, but she's gone on to be so much more. She has an opinion about everything. Her best selling book, Burn Book, came out last year and was a huge, huge hit. And she is obviously the co-host of the Pivot podcast with Prof. Scott G, professor Scott Galloway, two good friends of mine. and I'm always curious to hear what Kara has to say about anything, so no time to waste. Let's get into it.

All right, so, Kara, let's get into it. I'm very curious about your thoughts on yesterday's. memorial for Charlie Kirk in Arizona, and in particular his widow, Erica Kirk. Well, it was a pretty low bar compared to most of the other speakers. I thought. President Trump was doing a campaign rally as if he was at one of his rallies. It was a little bit untoward at someone's funeral of a friend.

It seemed like he went from autism to tariffs to Biden. I didn't think of it and then disagreed with Charlie Kirk's viewpoint. Right. And said. he thought Charlie was angry with him for going off on his hate tangent. Yeah, I guess, I mean, you can make jokes at people in funerals, but you know, but it was seemed tasteless. Obviously Stephen Miller was disturbing my. I hope he doesn't speak at my funeral. It was really disturbing. Well, hopefully you will outlive him, because you're. I know you're working on a longevity project, which I want to come to later.

But we're relying on you to live until 120. Yeah. I yet most of them were not very good. And advance was okay because I think they were friends. I thought he handled it pretty well. Most of them are not very good. And it was a campaign rally to raise money and to or political points. or stuff like that. And, but I thought she did very well. I thought she handled it with a lot of class. I thought she talked about her husband and the right things. She didn't make it political. She made it about forgiveness.

And I'd imagine it was extraordinarily difficult. She certainly presented a different face of, you know, what Christianity means. to a lot of people, which is love and forgiveness and not hate. So I thought, you know, weirdly enough, from a political point of view, she positioned herself the best because she came off. I don't know if that was her goal here. I think it was to honor her husband. Obviously they have kids together, but that's it. That's a high pressure moment. And I thought she handled it with a lot of grace and dignity.

I'm not so sure I would have done a rally in a stadium for my husband. if he died, but that's her choice. And, which is, I can see why. You know, they had big ties to that community. I'm glad they did it in Arizona versus somewhere else. Everyone else acted like it was a fundraiser for merch and. all kinds of stuff. I think there were a lot of hats being sold on the side. And hats. Yeah. I've often wondered what comes after Trumpism, because it's.

very clear that the people around Trump don't have the risk. They don't have the energy that he has. But I suddenly thought watching Erica Cook and this may well have been incidental, because she's clearly still in the first stages of grief. after a horrifyingly violent death for her husband. But, I thought, oh, we're seeing a turn here in the Republican Party, possibly. And I wondered if she might be. Is it implausible to think that she would be a good running mate for JD Vance?

It was interesting. I don't know if it's a turn. I mean, she's obviously he had say, Kirk, if I recall, said. she was more conservative than him. and he was pretty far down the conservative line. So, you know, I don't know if, if heavy duty Christianity is for everybody. Right. It certainly is appealing to that group. And she certainly could rally that group of people who believes in this, you know, sort of Christian nationalists is what it is. And who wanted to have, you know, one nation under God, indivisible kind of thing.

And so. I'm not sure she represents a very diverse group of people. You know, that kind of thing. But there's a lot of religious people. There's not there's increasingly less religious people. demographically over time. But they're very committed group of people. I have a lot of people in my family who are, you know, different kinds of evangelicals, from West Virginia and elsewhere. My aunt was, her kids are, but they have a different Christianity.

It's much more kind and open and diverse. My my my cousins. Well, not all of them, but some of them, so it just depends. It depends if she. If she modulates herself, I suppose in some way to be accepting. of other race, other religions and other ways of thinking of things. I, I don't know, I don't know much about her politics at all. Well, neither do I, but just seeing her yesterday, she's clearly a brilliant speaker. To be able to get up and address a stadium.

of 70,000 people, I thought was incredible. Especially ten days after something like that. Yeah. No, she's clearly got she's clearly. It was the secret sauce of him, too. Like she from what I understand, she was quite involved in the, in the movement in Turning Point USA. And she also had a podcast. She's quite good, you know, at presentation, she her podcast is more religious. It seems like talking about the Bible and things like that. So let's see if she makes a she's clearly got power.

I mean, right now she's got a lot of power and she's, you don't want to compare her to people, but it depends on, you know, these people who survive very strong figures like Nirvana and. and they're not comparable at all, but they, you know, they can. they can move the movement forward, whatever it happens to be. For on their on behalf of their, their husbands, as they heard their late husband's. Right, like Julian Novotny for Navalny after he was poisoned.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a totally different it's a completely different thing. But it's, you know, you you've seen that happen many times before. But at the same time, you know, it just depends on what she wants to do. She does have two young kids. I know that we just from reading about her, the family, you know, they having one parent present is critical, I think in that. I think that to my personally. But, but it's, it'll be an interesting and difficult journey for her, that's for sure.

Yeah. I thought it was very interesting. She, of all the people she called out, she called out each of aunts. who who really has disappeared in this, administration. and must find herself in a very awkward position, being the daughter of immigrants. and also having worked for a law company that specialized in helping companies. with dye in favor of dye and finding a husband. that appears to stand against everything that you think she represents. I don't think this is why.

she was a great scholar at Cambridge to support Stephen Miller's. Yeah, I think she's probably who knows? He who knows people change, right? I don't know, but given her past history, there must be a silent scream inside. But I don't know who knows. You know, people do change and make shifts. I think she's my take on her and I don't know her at all. Obviously, really intelligent is it's better to say nothing. if you can't, you know. I mean, she doesn't if she has to go out there, she's got to answer those questions. And no, she doesn't, because then she'd have to write.

and then she'd have to be on their side, presumably. And I suspect she disagrees with some of it, but I don't know. She could have changed. Right. And you never know. Yeah. Power changes people. The proximity to power. I have a lot of friends who have changed. You know, I have a lot of people. I know who have changed, really quite dramatically. So I don't know. Did you have any thoughts on Donald Trump saying that he actually didn't. like his opponents, hated his opponents and didn't wish them well? That struck as an odd note at a memorial service.

Well, you know, it's him. He was describing himself. At least he was truthful, right? I don't know, I feel like it was it was badly time. I think he was trying to make a joke about how Charlie Kirk wasn't like that. You know, you try to find something funny at a funeral. But I think that was the absolute truth about himself. He really. That's how he feels about people. He really does. The thing is, he does move on from and then becomes friends with people he hates. Or he he has friends that then he hates, and then he's our friends. Like Rupert Murdoch. Yeah, right.

Or Elon Musk or whoever it happens to be. And so that's his M.O., but, I mean, you know, it's it's it's. completely on brand with him. He he works for this man just the way Hope works for Obama. Right. And so he's really leaning into what works for him, which is. Great girl power and hope versus hate. Well, look, there's so much going on that I want to talk to you about. And I think of you as someone who has. you know, very thought out opinions on all sorts of things. Where are we on the tick tock deal, which would have got more attention.

on Friday had it not been for the build up. So Arizona so, so can you fill us in on the details and what you think may happen and why? It's a significant. Well, on pivot, we predicted the entire thing is going to Larry Ellison. You know, he had already been involved in the first version of this effort. by Trump to somehow protect it from Americans, from China. But that's not at all what's happening here. It's a big payoff for his friends and and people who've supported him. Principle being Larry Ellison. Now, Oracle's fully able to handle something.

like this from a technical point of view, from a data point of view. But he's rewarding his friends. Whether it's Marc Andreessen, he was dangling it to, the Murdochs. You know, it's all sort of a. gimme, to bring it in the question is, who are we? Is this really separate? I don't know, like there's very little detail. on what Congress has actually said has to happen, you know, which is a separate thing, but seems like the Chinese are in there for 20%. And what does that mean?

Where is the algorithm? What's the product going to be? There's very little detail except that there's going to be it's it's. you know, it's being put in the hands of his friends, people who have supported him, whether it's Andreessen or Ellison. We'll see the list. Well, maybe not, we won't see the list. But the question is whether the product declines in some way. And if those protections that Congress was so very worried about. are actually in place, I would doubt it, in terms of what they're doing. But we'll find out. We will find out.

They must have. China probably holding out for a better tariff deal, I suppose by. But it doesn't seem like they're giving up much here. And I know when it first happened, you know, Mark Cuban told me it's. No, it's useless without the algorithm. It's not a product, is it? You're buying a brand. And so that's an issue. And then, you know, a bunch of old men explaining TikTok to us. So I'm not so sure I want this gang of people in charge. Marc Andreessen, such a hip hop happen guy. I can tell he's got a hip hop as well, I suppose.

In in as much as that is a thing. And who gets to keep the data? I don't know, I don't know, I mean, it's you. Presumably it's your data, but I don't know. The Chinese already have some of the data. I don't know how they get it. I guess they keep it in the United States. But, you know, there's been lots of reports that it moves over there, like who were never going to see this algorithm, what it really is. And so that's the issue. What we'll never know now.

because Donald Trump just wants to make a deal what the Chinese did. And like I'd like to know, like if we had, they're never going to give us control of the algorithm. because they don't want us to know what they did. And so, we'll never know and we'll see. And then if they're not using the Chinese algorithm, which you've you've. based your whole life on, on TikTok, it might not be as good for you. Right? I, I find, you know, Instagram and threads really pushing ahead. Well that's a different privacy issue.

But in general I think they, they're they're really growing quite strongly. And I hate to recommend something, but I would use threads in Instagram. over TikTok and any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Well, and also the reason to use TikTok, the reason to use, threads and and. Instagram is that I guess it's better. that it's owned by an American company than a Chinese company. Yes, sir. Does it make any difference if China sells, in theory,

tick tock to America at this point, because. they've been inside American culture for as long as they have 4 or 5 years. At this point, I don't know. I don't know who's running the algorithm. Again, this is the unknowns are so massive. Yeah. And it certainly flies in the face of what Congress was trying to do. And it was passed. by both houses of Congress and it was signed by President Biden. So it just it's just not doing what it said it was doing, which was protect our our citizens from both surveillance. less so, I think is an issue than propaganda.

And the question is who's who is who is weighting the propaganda on this stuff? You know, Trump was against it before he was for it, which is because it shifted the algorithm in his favor, probably on purpose. So so his campaign people went to him and said, hey, we like TikTok. Oh, and by the way, one of your biggest funders, likes TikTok as an owner. Jeff. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it was Charlie Kirk and Baron. that went to Donald Trump and said, actually, TikTok's a good thing for you.

You shouldn't be trying to ban it. And I think his first instinct to try and ban. it was probably the correct one, which is we don't want foreign adversaries. meddling around in social media in our country. We're not allowed to go over there and do it. I mean, it's just ridiculous. I mean, it's the whole thing. If like we used at the time. You mean I wrote a piece seven, eight years ago saying, I love TikTok, I use it on a burner phone, and I got all kinds of flack for that. Right? Right. It was as a New York Times column, and everyone was like, how dare you insult the Chinese? I'm like, I'm sorry, it's Chinese Communist Party.

who wants to dominate the world. I feel like they shouldn't. You know, we don't get. we don't have, a synchronous ability to influence its culture at all. There's no reciprocity. We go. Google is not allowed in China. Well, they they left. They left China to be fair, because. They like. Us spying because of spying, because, you know, these are pernicious. stealer of IP and pernicious surveillance. And, you know, it's one I don't want to want to like stack rank surveillance. It's one thing for Mark Zuckerberg wanting to sell us more crap,

or manipulate is in some way. And that's another thing for the Chinese Communist Party to do. So. Right. So I suppose if I have to pick me, which I it's I don't like the choice. No, no, I love the idea of stack ranking, security and surveillance. It's a it's a brilliant. Surveilling us so they can sell us shit. And he can do more man fighting, I guess. Right. And some of the shit they sell us, I quite like, as I'm debating about whether or not to buy a thing. that keeps coming up on Instagram, which is a massager for your lymph nodes. Instagram has great ads, always has. Yeah. And I'm like, how do you know I need one of those?

Brilliant I do, yeah I think Instagram and ads, it's a really interesting case. So in terms of quality I mean I think it's a quality product. There's lots of hair all over this stuff, you know, whether it's paid or surveillance or whatever. But it's a big yeah. It was always a good product when he bought it, and it was a. wonderful product when I was there, when it started, when I had seven people. And they've made it into him. He's very good at that. And I have to give kudos to them for both that and threads. and people like Twitter better, but I don't, I like threads and I like,

I like blue Sky. I like both of them. I, I like competition, so I'm. Yeah. And it's hard to see who benefits more from a divided America than the Chinese. Right. Which is what I, you know, which is my anxiety about TikTok. Where's the dummies? They're set. They're probably laughing their asses off. Oh, I'm sure they are. I'm sure they're bent double. I'm sure they're in the fetal position laughing on the floor as a as. are the Russians. I don't feel they have a lot of respect for us. I well, I would be fascinated and see how the deal gets done.

So you've been very forthright about Bob Iger's decision. to suspend indefinitely Jimmy Kimmel's show. There's been talk over the weekend that maybe Jimmy Kimmel comes back. in some form. Do you think that that's likely so awkward? Oh, you know, this is already a show. All these shows, not just Jimmy Kimmel's I like. I think he's very talented and everything else. All these shows as you know, I talk about the. you know, these are declining audiences. And oddly enough. hacks had sort of preceded this this idea of the economic challenges.

Let's start with those. Right in the storyline. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was almost perfect in that last speech. she gave when they tried to get her to fire. The character, Hannah Einbinder plays, you know, these companies. are struggling with late night because of the costs, and that's no good. Like, I know everyone was like, oh, they cut them because of Trump. I'm like, they probably also got him because, of course, because they kept the South Park people, which was doing well. Right? So if you make, you know, if you make audience sell and make money for them, they'll keep you. That's the whole that's that's always been my point of view,

is that if you make money for people, they'll put up with a lot. Right. And and people do watch. I mean, the audience has died certainly late night, but they do. watch it on YouTube and they watch it for free clips. Yes, they watch icons, but that's not monetizable as much as the old system. And so. Right, exactly. There was a need to cut costs. There was a declining audience. Much of the popularity of it is on clips, which is hard to monetize. Right. And so, you know, you have that problem, period.

Like what do you do about these shows and how do you. but the first thing for Colbert you could have done is let's. see if we can cut costs and put you on streaming and blankety blank. There was never that. There was never. It's, oh, we have to cut you, like, without any kind of discussion. about how to make it a much more economically viable thing. So that gives me pause. Like, oh, they did it because Trump like that. So that was pretty obvious to me. And she wanted you know, they wanted that deal done, etc., etc.. I think and this was pre the Ellison's.

even this was Shari Redstone who really has turned out to be. Well I'm not surprised anyway. Well, and I mean, I wonder if you've heard this too, but. a few people had said to me, well, of course, David Ellison wants, Stephen Colbert to be fired before the deal. because he doesn't want to be the person to fire Stephen Colbert. Yes, yes. That's correct. He got lucky. He got lucky in that regard. And they just the timing was good for him. I don't know what they would have done. They probably, you know, I suspect Bob Iger was looking at the numbers.

and saying we got to do something about late night. This isn't working for us. But to do it in this way, right. When Brandon Carr is acting like a ridiculous, you know, cartoon mobster. What a terrible public official he is. It looks so linked. It's like, so bright line. And so. And especially after paying the $16 million over. the George Stephanopoulos, problem that they had. Now, in that case, I was not quite as critical. because I thought, oh, I bet there's emails that there's texts.

I mean, there's I think they would not have lost, but it would have been very embarrassing. That's my guess. I like I don't know, you know, though, Shari Redstone gave in and they didn't do anything. So, a. Friend of mine sat on a train coming back from DC to New York. and said she was sitting opposite someone who is clearly a lawyer, who holds his enormous briefcase onto the table, opened it up. and took out six files that literally said George Stephanopoulos.

Oh, did it. That's terrible. I don't know, it just would have been a mess. It would have been a mess. It would have been a mess. I can see that one. I was like, oh, I bet there was something like. there's something that would have just kept it in the news. Trump would have taken advantage of it. What a mess. And, you know, you try to avoid that stuff. I wasn't quite as you're like irritated by that one. This one's ridiculous. It looks like they were caving to both Sinclair and Nexstar, which. you can do that that they and they can do whatever they want, by the way. Like everyone's like, oh, they're so terrible and they're so terrible,

but they can do what they want if they want to. By the way, they have audiences of like rapidly. aging populations watching local and broadcast news. So good luck. See what you can put in there. And, you know, buy some golden girls and go for I don't know what to say. I don't know what to program in those places. And they've tried to create news stations that have had no, no. No traction. Small, small. But some of them are good, some of them are bad. Small. And so they're not. Certainly not. Wow.

What an incredible business. And, and so you have to decide what to do. But in this case Iger the bright line is so clear what happened here. So he looks like a quisling. He really does. He really does. which is a great discipline to me I happen to like Bob Iger quite a bit. I have a very good relationship. And I was sort of shocked that he did this because the only thing I can think of, he was very disturbed by the Ellen attack on him at that New York Times thing. I think it really shook him. Was this when you.

go fuck yourself? Yeah. Right. This was at the Dealbook conference. Yeah. I think he was shocked and surprised by it and was I think it made him nervous. Although I don't care, he gets paid the big bucks, so suck it up, sister. You know, kind of thing. And the other part is, I think when those Nazis appeared in front of Disney, I Disney World, remember they were marching around like the neo Nazis. I think that was bothersome. Like really worrying. I think they were worried about attacks at Disney, etc. except like, I think he's got bigger.

That's my guess. This is the only thing I can think of is. the other businesses are very vulnerable to all manner of violence, and so that's sort of the nightmare scenario for Disney, I suppose. So I'm not sure what went through his hood. I mean, I mean, had I talked to a lot of other moguls, fellow moguls were friends of him and every note is despicable. What a despicable move. What a weak willed person. This is typical a lot of money. This is what he's like. And I'm like, I don't know, maybe I don't, I don't know. But to me he's really made a mess of it and probably regrets coming back to, to,

you know, say Disney from Bob Chapek who's probably laughing, also laughing. His ass off somewhere. Yeah. Well yeah I know it's a fascinating story. Bob Iger isn't it. Because he resigned absolutely. At peak Disney at the top of his career. Yeah he leaves. He appoints Bob Chapek. Bob Chapek inherits Covid which is terrible for the parks. And then Bob Iger basically comes back. having agitated against Bob Chapek.

And it was all chronicled in a somewhat embarrassing piece. for everybody concerned, I think, in the New York Times. So they hung their laundry out there. And now he must be somewhat ruing the day, especially because his wife is head. of the Annenberg School of Journalism at USC. Yes, that's true. She's I've I've gone to that her classes there. You know she's a that must I mean it's not her fault like I'm. sorry I just I don't know what to say because. But she must be beside herself. What are you going to tell the students? There's what can you tell?

You can say things to the PR students, which you also are there. But you could also like. What do you say to the journalism? There's nothing to say except silence. And which is the worst thing in the world. And, you know, I suspect. Yeah, I'm not sure. I guess he wants to go out on a high note and bring Disney stock up, right? Yeah. Which has consistently underperformed the s. Right. So I suspect he wants to not have it go on a low note. Go out and a low note. And you know he's still been so slow in picking his.

picking his successor. And what he does he gets sucked into the. I think he was trying to keep his head down with Trump. That's what I suspect because I you didn't hear him. like after the vaccine thing in Florida. I actually text him, like, are you saying nothing about this vaccine. like these crazy anti-vax people running this state? You. I said, I'm not bringing my children. They're like, you know what I mean? Like, he didn't respond, which he always responds, which was interesting to me. I think he just is weary of having to dive into this stuff. Right?

I suspected that's it again. You're making the big bucks, sir. So. Right. But it's very, very difficult to manage and keep the creative community on. until they can hear that death. Well, and John Oliver, last night on, last week Tonight. saying boycott Hulu boycott Disney that that felt like a moment. There's a lot of them you know. they trying to make the comparisons which is interesting to what's G and. what's that woman who was on one of the Star Wars things? Very conservative. Yes, I know who you mean. I remember the yeah.

I can't remember her name, but I know exactly what you mean. Right. Which that's a better comparison, I guess. But it's. Kimmel didn't say anything wrong. This is the problem. And, you know, Roseanne. Barr, like Roseanne Barr said truly heinous things about Valerie Jarrett. I mean, like, like astonishingly horrible things. This is not even a close comparison. So that's not even it doesn't even work. I, I suppose you know, they like but compared to Roseanne, I was like, are you kidding? Right. And Roseanne was their number one show and they canceled it.

He possibly made it kind of had a fumbled language. I knew what I heard, what he was saying, which was they're trying that. he was making. He was describing the situation. The right wing was trying everything. they could do to make this person trans right. Trans bullets, trans. He's trans. No, there's a partner. And again, none of it matters because the partner didn't shoot. If the partner is trans and I don't even know this, they didn't shoot. What does it have to do with you know, that he had like Scott said, is he had a girlfriend at ASU like he had a girlfriend.

As you remember in Utah, that that was a it was a Maga person. That wouldn't have mattered either. Right? The grandfather said the family was MAGA. It doesn't matter. This is a single person who did this. And if you can't make a larger. conspiracy theory work, which you're not going to be able to, I don't really care. Like anything else, we had said that on pivot right away. We're like, this is just a Neolithic young man trying to pin one side of. the other on him is not going to work here because we get we get this guy. Well, and also, almost by definition, anybody that takes a rifle.

and shoot somebody else like that has some sort of mental issues, right? They're already mentally ill if they're out there murdering people. That's right. But it's just this idea of team and I, he was making an observation. That's my thing is like everyone. And he could have said the same thing. about the left trying their hardest to make this guy MAGA or whatever. And in some cases, it seems like he didn't vote. He never voted. He didn't have a political affiliation. It doesn't matter that his family is MAGA. It doesn't matter if his roommate was trans.

It doesn't matter. None of it matters. And I think the linking between I gotta make tough. calls on Bob Iger is ridiculous. It's a ridiculous comparison. It's the only because of the MAGA making something of it. The groups that are that are professional irritants, they're trying to make a big deal. The pressure was there and they've been under that pressure. Remember the gay? The gay boycott. The Christians weren't going to go to Disney, not because of the gay thing. Right? Didn't work out. Gays turn out to be excellent goers of Disney, so I didn't matter.

I was like, well, they love princesses. They love princesses, gay men love princesses. And. Yeah, exactly. And so that didn't work. So you have to really battle an inaccurate boycott. or if it's put up with it, that's the way the world is right now. So yeah. So what do you think about Jay Leno's point that, that why. why have all the comedian, the late night comedians. lent in to the Democrats? Because you automatically lose half of your audience.

I'm not I'm not unsympathetic to that because Jimmy Kimmel. Was I agreed with that. Yeah. Jimmy Kimmel was hired as a comedian and has become much more political. and sort of taken on the mantle of the the trend at Comedy Central, which, you know, it was kicked off by Jon Stewart. and then very effectively taken up by, by Stephen Colbert. But I can understand if you're a Republican, moderate. or even MAGA that every night watching this would be annoying. Yes. But you go over to Greg Gutfeld. To me, one of the things I talked about was the problem with Late Night was.

they're all the same. It's like three news. stations like ABC, NBC and CBS, like they're all the same, like you and you. And in this market, you can't have that many. That's my issue. It's not what they're saying. You can have a point of view and then try to serve that audience the way Fox does. Or Greg Gutfeld, who I don't find particularly funny, but. everyone's like, he's so popular, like he's the only one that's doing it. That's why it's like, it reminds me, you know, when Walt and I had the code conference, we were the only ones doing it, and then everyone copied us. And then it got harder. The business got harder. And so it seems like there are too many people doing the same thing, right?

If I were Bob Iger, I would have said, you know what? We've got a cost problem. We got a perception. We got to do something. Let's just put them on streaming. Let's they can't touch us over on streaming. Let me let Brandon Carr do what he likes on this other stuff. Let him let him actually like, you know, I hate to be Mel Robbins, but let them let them cut our. Let's see if they can do it. I would have hired the best five law firms. and fought that asshole right into the ground. And he would have lost. He would have lost, and it would have been, you know,

even the right has problems with this call by branding, right? I mean, even Ted Cruz, I mean, Bernie Sanders coming out. and saying for the first time ever, he agrees with Ted Cruz. because Ted Cruz is saying this is the wrong own backs. The Democrats will use it. Well, they're mostly they're going to do it to us. That's their whole thing. Because you know that he's not worried about Jimmy Kimmel getting hurt. He's worried about they're going to do it to us someday. Yeah, that's exactly fine. Whatever gets you to gets you there.

It's fine by me. So do you think that a possible solution to this. Because Bob Iger must be sort of head. in hands trying to figure out how he got here. And they obviously underestimated the fallout from it too. Because he's clearly sensitive. about his reputation is a solution that they go on streaming it. Could they just put Jimmy Kimmel on Hulu at night? I would have done that period. I would have been like, let's put him on streaming. Let's cut some costs. Like I think he had 200 people. That's an incredible amount of people. I'm sorry, that's too many in this. And then figure it out. like something really interesting, like, could you have hired Colbert?

I mean, if I were Ted Sarandos and they never miss over there, let me now. K-pop, if I have to listen to one more K-pop demon Hunter song right now. with my kids like it's crazy, it goes from age 3 to 18, like it's nuts. You know, if I were them, I'd be like, what can I do with this guy? Like what? What interesting thing. Now, again, these guys are older. Like, it's doesn't necessarily K-pop demon hunters is hitting a young devil,

but it's hitting me too, by the way, I think it's wonderful. What can you do? What would if I were Ted Sarandos to be like, what can I do with this? What upper tier, what moment is this? Well, and he was I always think he was very strong over the Dave. Chappelle incident too, that it was like Dave Chappelle is a comedian. He should be allowed to do this show and do his thing. Yeah, we had the only issue I had, Dave Chappelle, is like, do we need an hour and a half bashing trans people? It's that's not very funny. Like, like if you're good. Like they were like, oh, you're mad because he does lesbian jokes. I'm like, I love a lesbian joke.

Trust me, I'm the least offended person on that. I work with Scott Galloway. I've got to. Be. I was going to say he gives you a lot of lesbian jokes. I know, but it's like I just that my issue was. this is a group of people that is under siege. Do you need an hour and a half of bashing them or. I wasn't an hour and a half. It was like it was when it was like 20 minutes. Is there anything else we can make fun of? Like, I don't know, I felt like board actually was my biggest issue, but I agree with you. I think he was right in that move. Yeah. There's an opportunity here for someone.

I mean, especially with Kimmel, because I think he's quite an interesting, character. Like, I think he's a really interesting. and talented and possibly innovative person. I don't know, he could do very well in podcasting. He could do very well. There's all kinds of moves. It might be like the biggest gift to him because I would think running. I mean, I think that's what hacks really. the idea of running a late night show is so heavy now. It's not where it was. It's not where people go, you know, what could you do that you could lighten up?

You know how much happier I am that I'm not a big institution, right? Right. Well, the oppressive hand of a corporation, especially at the moment when people are concerned. about Donald Trump and and the sort of punitive nature of him. Yeah. If I were him, I would probably go to YouTube. I think YouTube seems like the perfect place for him. You know, something like, look at Louis C.K., I am, and I don't really want to see his penis. Is don't you don't want to see Louis C.K.? I guess I was wrong, but someone told me he was back, and I was like, oh, good. Is he masturbating still back? He's always me.

He's done very well with his YouTube stuff. He really pioneered that. And so did, of all people, Glenn Beck. Oh, there's a lot of people that did that. And you have to like, sort of give it to all these people, who are doing these things because they, if you're good at it, like. Don lemon recently has really. No, I've started noticing he's going on the street with that thing, and I'm like, this works. This works for me. I don't know how well it works for the audience yet, but I kind of like it. It's kind of interesting. And so it frees people to be creative, and we'll see if Jimmy Kimmel can do that.

Yeah. And it's also about the changing nature of journalism, isn't it? And Don lemon, I think, gets more viewers now than he did when he was on CNN. And he looks like he's having a ball, like whoever it happens to be. I did a whole show on this. because I'm so sick of this medium doom and gloom stuff where I had Oliver, Darcy. Dave takes pictures. Who who used to work for the, for the Washington Post and, and Katie Drummond, who is at a you know, Condé Nast publication, but she's really invigorating wired.

And I do think there's ways to invigorate media in a. and I want a different things to show like, look, she's at a big thing but she. what she did is she leaned into Dodge and covered the shit out of it and beat. everybody, got all these subscribers, and now she's doing these other things. And so I'm really interested in what people are doing that works really well. It isn't. I don't like shoddy stuff and I still don't like the shoddy stuff, so. Well then I think what works is having a point of view. Right. Well, I'd rather have me to be accurate. I think I have, I have certain standards that I think no, I don't think it's just a point of view.

I think it's a point of view that gives people good information, like. even if it has like truthful, not neutral was my. when Christiane Amanpour said that, I really thought that's exactly. You don't have to be neutral when you come. Right? Okay. But you have to. make your case for your thing and not in a not in a manipulative way. Right? Which is what Trump does all the time. Like speaking of last the last night saying, so with such a performance like Ellen putting a picture of.

us together, like, why do you have to post that? Why don't if it's for Charlie, keep your mouth shut like you saw. He posted a picture of him. and Trump and said, For Charlie, it's not for Charlie, it's for Ellen. Like it's never that to me. If you're doing things genuinely, you tend to attract a really good audience. If you genuinely are expressing yourself. Right, which. Is the strength of Charlie Kirk, whether you like him or not. Yeah. What did you make of Donald Trump and Elon Musk shaking hands? And, It's just ridiculous. Just come on, like I was.

So look, whatever, whatever it takes for Elon to. to continue to soil himself, that's what he's going to do. So all right, so one of the things you're working on. at the moment, besides the on podcast and the pivot podcast. and everything else you do, is you're working on a series on longevity. And I noticed before we sat down you were drinking kefir. What are the things we should do? Assuming we want to live. and and watch what happens to the rest of the Republican Party? What should we be doing to stay alive longer?

Healthier? Well, well, let me just preface this by saying I had. I had so many dinner parties with tech people who are lecturing me. on all manner of bullshit, and I was always like, and I'd look into it and I'd be like, that's untrue. At the same time, there's all these astonishing things happening. AI in cancer, gene folding or all these amazing developments. happening about learning about the human body and longevity. that I wanted to sort the chaff, the wheat from the chaff like. this was really irritating to me to have to listen. to these narcissistic fucks explain to me how they're like Soylent,

whatever it happens to be, years and years of terrible dinner parties. And so, you know, I'm always sort of interested in what they're doing. because some of it is has a lot of efficacy. Some of it is just nonsense. And so I just decided my next book would be about this, largely. because I want it to be hopeful, because there's all this amazing stuff, whether it's you know, even. some space travel, some space stuff, not all of it, some of it, you know, food, all kinds of things. So I thought it would be really an interesting thing. So that was my next book, and I'm working on a documentary.

about a docu series, about it for, for CNN. And I'm not supposed to be talking about it, I don't care. But it's really interesting. It's it's really interesting. So summit. So what we're doing is we're trying the kooky stuff. like the red light stuff or the hyperbaric chamber. I know you want to get in one. I'm going to one this afternoon for my first. Time on air. I told you, I'm so sorry. I need. More oxygen. I'm gasping. For air. Do not need more oxygen. I keep telling her this. If you want to hand over the money makes. It's.

It's vaguely dangerous. But it's supposed to. It's supposed to help, your repair cells. What? No, it doesn't, it doesn't. It helps you if you are. You know, if you get the bends, that's for sure. If you have a wound. Yes. You don't need that. I have the psychological bends every day just thinking about what's going on. It makes you feel better and you don't get throw an embolism. I'm happy for you. Whatever. So, one of the things. But a lot of it's nonsense, like, Scott and I did the sound baths, which I actually liked.

Like, some of it's just like. it was very pleasant to be in a sound bath with Scott Galloway kind of things. Other stuff that sounds. Very weird to be in a sound bath with. A video of it. Where do you see the video of it? Is he? Please tell me he's wearing at least a Speedo. He is wearing at least a Speedo. Don't worry. It was really funny. It's a really because they look like these weird wounds and stuff. So, so we did all the crazy stuff, but at the same time, I'm interviewing. people like, Jennifer Doudna, who did Crispr and some of the stuff, and there's all these amazing things going on at these university research.

and which is why it's grotesque that they're cutting funding to them. around cancer, around using AI and, and, solving pancreatic cancer, liver cancer, sickle cell anemia, like and also what helps with longevity. So I'll get to that. So a lot of it which is incredible. And that's what I've been searching for is what works. It's really quite dull. There's no you know, a couple things. The vaccines are really helpful. Thank you. Robert fucking Kennedy junior, you asshole. Vaccines have been RNA vaccines not just around Covid, but around cancer.

There's some really interesting movement going on. That's the HPV vaccine. Right then HPV. That's. Insulting. Incredibly effective has cut, cut, cut deaths down rather dramatically. The second thing is these, GLP ones and stuff like that, a lot of that stuff. And there's about to become a pill for it, you know, so you take a pill. Amazing stuff happening there. And we did a lot of we talked to David Kessler and stuff like that. and all these regular people that are taking. it really interesting stuff around, not just weight but, addiction, all kinds.

It's a question. whether quite a lot of addictions, drinking, gambling, things like that. That's a critically important new area. Another one is, sleep is being studied, obviously, and the quality of sleep. and everything else. Another one is, less so much exercise as the movement and the most important. things, movement and getting, you know, moving around and stuff. But what the area of course, I'm most interested in.

is and is turned out to be, from a study point of view, the most important thing, which is friendships and meeting people you don't know. and being in a social situation and the isolation that's caused by, by online is really debilitating to our longevity, like in terms of. and it leads to terrible things like the shooter who is extremely online. It leads to lots and lots of problems and which we don't know yet. And so we're looking at that a lot, because one of the things that literally.

in the Harvard happiness study, the number one thing is. being with friends and family and also trying new things. Trying a different, you know, trying a different thing, meeting people, even just talking. to people on the street in more than a hello way, like, hi, how are you doing? What's going on? It increases your life. It's crazy. Like all these studies show this over and over and over again. when everyone's looking for this magic elixir, which is a great word. Actually, the basic stuff which is being around.

other human beings is, is the biggest indicator of longevity. Yeah. I think Dan Levitan, in his book Successful Aging Talks. about the single most important thing is as an older person, you can do. is talk to a younger person that, you know, I did this this weekend. Oh, you did well. You've got kids. I want to talk to. An 83 year old. He's sculling a bunch of older people. And they, they they were talking about that idea of putting together. There's a great idea about putting together younger people. in need, housing with older people in need, companionship.

and creating really good for both groups, right? Incredibly good. Not just from a financial point of view, but from like there is something. about other human beings that makes you live longer, like you. It actually does it. I did, I did a, I played a game night with young people, with a, with a neurosurgeon, an excuse me, a neuroscientist. Yeah. About brain plasticity around all kinds of stuff. Now there'll be medical interventions, but a lot of it has to do with,

with people like, I know it's crazy to get to this conclusion, but every study, you know, a lot of stuff is based on, like, this whole idea about blue zones. It's just nonsense. It's nonsense. It's just nonsense. Like, and that's the problem is there's no like. this idea of an elixir is really has been with us in the beginning of time. Right. Whether it's about Ponce de Leon or whatever. But there isn't. The answer is, is is people, which is kind of funny. The other answer is be rich.

Be. Don't be poor. Hoping with rich people. Be with rich. What you're good at, don't be poor. Don't. Okay. Don't don't be poor. Drink kefir and have it come. One of the things is this whole protein. This is this is like ten grams of protein. But there's also too much protein. Now, a lot of bro's or some of the bro guys who help them Peter out. They all are like 109 pounds of protein a day. This is not good. Okay, can you answer? Should we be drinking protein shakes yes or no? That always strikes me as either disgusting and b it feels wrong.

But are they actually good for us? No. Anything with a lot of stuff in it. Like you have to look at it if it's just, you know, some protein. Whatever I use plant protein is I don't like way. I don't like the taste of it. But, I feel like every young man I meet is hauling around an enormous plastic tub. of whey protein or pea protein, and I'm like, just eat a bag of peas. No. It's ridiculous. It's fine. It's just they want to. If I just like with you in this hyper,

if a little oxygen is good, a lot of oxygen is better. So little water is good, a lot of it's not. And let me just say, and a lot of protein is that's one thing that's not this whole like obsession. You do need a lot of protein, but not the kind like yogurt in the morning. The Greek yogurt. Great with some fruit. You know, there's a lot of fiber. You should is it's kind of it's a mediterranean diet, essentially. Right. Which is it's sort of common sense and moderation and all fine. So this is the only area I agree with.

Robert can eat processed foods are killing us like really truly you know. And that that'll be that's a very difficult thing to push back on obviously. But the diabetic industrial complex is really quite strong. And so a lot of these ozempic things, just whatever it happens is, is really interesting, especially people who are poor, who are in food deserts, who don't have the ability yet to kind of an interesting it'll be interesting. to see if the government takes a hand here as long as it's tested. And, and use. But that to me is is everyone I talked to.

Doctors are like this. These GLP ones are really interesting and we should really focus. I mean, I know it's fun. to make fun of like, rich people on them, but actually also. They seem like miracle drugs. And as you say, the idea that they're rewiring the brain. to not want to do addictive things feels very powerful. Well, because you were brought addicted to it. by the diabetic industrial or the processed food complex. And so those are all engineered so that you would you would do it, but don't you don't eat a lot like don't, don't suddenly go crazy.

I do kefir because I don't like yogurt. So I happen to like kefir. It's also fermented also good for you that kind of stuff. And I eat kiwi kiwi kiwis. Really? Okay, I bought some kiwis the other day because you told me I should be eating, and I have to say they're still sitting in the fridge. Let me just say don't get the green ones, get the gold. I didn't even know the would go there. You can get them in Chinatown. You live in New York? Golden kiwi. All right. I want to get one gold. And you don't need to buy a lot. Just get a few. They're full of all kinds of good things.

All fruit and vegetables are. You should be eating whole fruits and vegetables. I can't think of a. subject that I don't want to discuss with Kara swisher. But there you have it. Tick tock. You have Erica Kirk. You have what's happening with Bob Iger and Jimmy Kimmel. And you've got tips for how to live a longer, healthier life, which is Kiwis the golden kind, not the green fairy kind. Kefir fermented yogurt drink and company.

Lots of company. Young company, old company company. Perhaps we will have government sponsored dinner parties. that would be my favorite thing, where the government just supplied me with a chef to come around. And then I will throw people together. around my table, which is my favorite thing to do. So I'm hoping I live a long life. Anyway, if you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast podcast. Wherever you subscribe, wherever you listen to your podcasts, leave us a comment and join our community on YouTube.

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Thank you.