What Attention-Seeking Trump Told Me About 9/11 | Inside Trump's Head

Why are they getting this money? I know that in the past, in other situations, Trump has come up. with amounts of money at certain moments when he felt he was not covered enough. These people know are privy to so much inside of Donald Trump's. very small bubble. We're going to give you an additional $45,000, which will be accounted for as a bonus. or whatever way it needs to be.

It's a very problematic. How do you enforce an NDA when you're in a political situation, when you're essentially on the payroll of the United States government, the people's payroll, you might say we should say that this is my theory. on this theory of the case, based on what he has done in the past. Michael. Joanna, back in the studio.

Back in business. Yeah. Back in America. It's very exciting to be back. We have so much to get through. We've got the cash. What is the cash about for Natalie Harp, Margot Martin, Chamberlain Harris and Walton Norton? Is it to a guy that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And the guy? The guy who was also indicted with him in Florida for the. For this stolen papers or the. That's right. The classified documents, they moved down there. So we're going to discuss why is Donald Trump paying Natalie $45,000 in cash?

And unless I have a theory. So. So stay tuned. We have the Trump a loser in Dallas. And who's going? And how are we saying that Trump alludes a Trump a loser. Oh that's good Trump loser. I like it. Yeah, well the trumpet loser. So who's going there? Who's not going there? Why is it half empty? And they keep pretending it's full? We've got the photos from Sarah Ewell Weiss from our Washington bureau,

who's been down there and shows the stadium basically half empty. And of course, we're going to start off talking about this. I'll never get too far. We thought it was coming down on top of this in two far. the strong guys. And I'm not the smallest guy in the world. They grabbed me under the arms and got to get out of here. It's a solemn day. It's 25 years since nine over 11. We were both working together at magazine of years. 25 years gone past in a whistle.

In a whistle. But that video, I mean, we remember covering. You were. You were pregnant. I was eight months pregnant. I was eight months pregnant. We were at New York Magazine. It was my second week, and Donald Trump was not running around. Why? I mean, I was I did a good part of the coverage of, of nine over 11. for New York magazine, including,

I mean, Donald Trump says he was down there. I was down there and, and. and I remember this and this was an extraordinary day. And and with enormous disarray getting into the office, the editor in chief, we we couldn't get her on the phone for a period. Remember, all of the phones went down. Phones were out. And then I came into the office. You were in the office? The executive editor, John Homans,

in old, dear friend of mine was there. And it was like, well, what do we do? And, you know, I mean, this is New York magazine. This was from, you know, thinking. of all of the things that 911 would mean when you're in the news business, you think, you know, what's what do we do? And I remember. very clearly thinking, this is New York Magazine. This is we've got to get there.

And and I got John Homans, John Homans. And I then decided there was another person in the office, I recall, who kept saying, why do you want to go down there? I was desperate to go down there, but I was eight months. pregnant and I was nervous about going well as well. You should have. I mean, everyone in then. I mean, we were just acting in the in the moment. on all of this, and and John Homans and I went out. I mean, went out.

I remember we went outside the building. New York magazine was then at 50th and Madison in 53. We went out the building without any plan whatsoever. And and I mean, this was, I think, probably about a half an hour. after both towers had collapsed. and everyone there was like a massive, massive humanity. coming uptown on foot on a large, largely.

But the traffic was, was packed too. And and then we started to head downtown. How do we get downtown? And we actually hailed a police car, and the police car picked us up. And then. And then we went down, sirens blaring. to, to as close as we could get to the to the World Trade Center. And, I mean, it was already it was just a dust cloud, but already there were ambulances from kind of converging from,

I think from the entire tri state area. So by the time, by the time we left, there were hundreds maybe, maybe, you know, maybe there were signs of ambulances lining the avenues. Yeah. I mean, just ready to to to pick up the wounded. And then of course, that shock when they were just there. because there, there was no there were no wounded. Everyone was everyone. Everyone had either gotten out safely or or was dead.

But then, you know, and then then we came back. I remember just covered, you know, a. kind of a people talking about the, the, the effects of, of that, of that air and that, that dust that crosses my mind because we were white with it. And, and then we, you know, I mean, that was I guess we I mean, our coverage.

certainly went on for weeks and weeks, and I was deeply involved with that. And so two things, two relevant things. Never once did. an anecdote about Donald Trump surface, right. I mean, I remember it quite well because it was such. an extraordinary few weeks, and I just joined the magazine. So everything felt particularly sort of strange to me. And I don't remember us ever doing anything about Donald Trump.

I don't remember him coming up. What I do remember is all the restaurateurs down there. I mean, there was Danny Meyer, there was David Boulay. I mean, everybody getting restaurants up and running to feed the workers. I mean, I think they did 1.5 million free meals for rescue workers. No, I have a I have a point of information about this. because in the aftermath of nine over 11, I spoke to Donald Trump. Now, I often heard from Donald Trump, and this was a kind of a sort of a running.

amusement that Donald Trump would call all of the time. to either complain about something the magazine had said about him, or, more often than not, complain that he wasn't mentioned in a story. And in that aftermath of nine over 11, he called. and he had he was planning to donate. He had money. And I mean, it was a lot of malarkey. Donald Trump malarkey.

Well, he was trying to wedge his way into the story, trying to get into the story and his way into the story is I'm going. to support this, and I'm giving this to the firemen and stuff. Money. I'm sure that has never materialized, but. at no point did he say I was down there. And this was my experience, not present in what he was talking about. If a genie gave me. three wishes, I would use all my wishes to wish for my cats to live forever.

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Well, it's very clear. I mean, if you went on social media this week, no one believed that he was actually down there helping people. I mean, his claim that he'd gone down, he'd taken his crew. I mean, the thing that I think people do remember. is that after The Two Towers came down, he called one of the networks. and said, I now have the tallest building, 40 Wall Street. And so he was boasting about having. now the tallest building in downtown,

because the other two being taken out out of the sky. I mean, I mean, I hesitate to say it's extraordinary. about Donald, Donald Trump because it's all extraordinary. But this is a lie and the man does nothing but lie. But you would think that this this lie is approaches the truly sacrilegious. Well, the sort of stolen valor of it's like stealing someone under this medal.

You think of all the people that did go down there, you know, all the rescue. workers, the essential workers, the nights they spent. The person I remember the most was the priest for the fire brigade, Michael Ryan, who had a terrible heart attack on the spot and died because it. was, as Rudy Giuliani said, you know, it might be too much for us to bear. And then, of course, you've got the tragedy of what happened to Rudy Giuliani, that Trump sucked him into his terrible wake.

and a man who actually had risen to the occasion. Although do you remember Al Sharpton saying, Bozo. the Clown could have risen to that occasion? But Rudy Giuliani, you had a moment of really think that, you know, I think that that was I mean, that's that was that moment. that spoke to what Rudy could offer. Rudy Giuliani is continues to be an hysteric. That's what he does. It's all hysteria. Except that that that has a funny thing of reversing itself.

when everyone else is hysteric in, in hysteria. Right. For the hysteric that becomes a moment of calm. And he was that was what that was. You know, Rudy Giuliani at that point for. those weeks was a calm voice. Yeah. Calm voice told everybody, go out, go shopping, eat out in restaurants, keep New York City going. All of you know, advice, which was good advice.

Everybody went out and did it and as much as they could. I mean, it was a really remarkable time. Remarkable time. And so for Donald Trump to sort of wedge his way in and start shouting. that he was there and he was down there helping the rescue workers. What nonsense. And as you say, it's the sort of sacred it's. almost a sacred thing that he has violated. Yeah. No, I mean, we could we can. I'm sure we can go further. And 911, which led to Afghanistan,

the war in Iraq, destabilization, a. the destabilization path that I think you can. reasonably argue is one of the things that leads to the Donald Trump presidency. Yeah. Well, catastrophic overreaction and by Bush, by George W Bush, who was then held hostage by Donald Rumsfeld and. Dick Cheney and and yet, weirdly, what has Donald Trump done?

But according to JD Vance and Marco Rubio this week, he's got himself into a war which may now last his term. They don't think that we're going to get out of it. before the end of Donald Trump's second term. Neither does he know. Stealthily moving American troops to the region. And not only that, we've gotten into into a war. which is exhausted enough of our resources.

that we are unable to support what what I think is this. enormous historic opportunity, which is that. the Ukrainians have been on the verge of essentially defeating the Russians. and Vladimir Putin, and instead we're now giving the Russians. because we can't aid the Ukrainians, because we've exhausted our munitions. We've, we've we are losing the opportunities.

to stop Russia and giving them an advantage. which they may take and which they are taking across Europe, which they definitely taking across Europe to destabilize Europe. We're recording this on Thursday morning. JD Vance will be speaking tonight, although Trump will be then. speaking after JD Vance. What did you think of the first days? Well, let's discuss what is actually. what is actually going on with this.

this this bit I mean, there is the logic here. is you have to really go a long way to find it. Now, you know. Well, isn't the logic attention for Donald Trump against logic? Yes, exactly. But that's the logic that that is at the expense of his party. So you have in midterm elections your the, the party that holds the white House loses seats.

Just is just one of those things that happen. They can be greater or lesser losses. But the issue is that that a president. is surrounded by national controversies. And what you want to do is let your party. on a state and local level, focus on state and local issues. So you, the president, you want to you want to just take a step back. Everybody knows this. It's easy.

Take a step back between Labor Day and the and and November. Let your people out there do their thing. Don't overshadow them. Don't don't make them have to defend you. Especially if you're if your approval ratings are in a dip. Not to mention Donald Trump's which are in a tank. Right. So lowest of the low. So why would he possibly be doing this? Why would he possibly be calling attention to Donald Trump.

in an election, which will depend certainly on swing voters. who where a group in which he is massively unpopular, massively unpopular because of the war, which he has gone to Dallas to defend, massively unpopular because of tariffs, which he has gone to Dallas to defend. So what. Well hello. What and Ice and Ice immigration.

Well, all of it. Policy actor policy after policy. What could be then the motivation for this. Well you're absolutely right. It is about attention. A because he can't resist the idea of it be because. the idea of someone else getting attention is anathema to him. Right. But see, I think that there's a longer term. strategy for Donald Trump, which is that.

he does not want the Republican Party to imagine life without him. This is he is now. And remember, we're going into this other phase, the midterms in a. in the in the in a president's second term. after the midterms, the president begins a long goodbye. Right. It's the lame duck is the official lame duck period. The his his possible successors.

He recedes. His possible successors come to the forefront. Okay, that's not going to happen here. He's not going to do this. And you can see this convention as an announcement of that. I am not going away. I'm going to play this in in a. totally the opposite of of that. This is the cult of personality is going to go into hyperdrive. now and and it is going to be more. you're not I'm not going to allow the party, the country, the world.

to get me to to. to get me Donald Trump out of its head, right to recede. Right. So we're in Donald Trump's head. But Donald Trump understands that what he his talent. is getting inside other people's head and staying there. So is is I think that's a brilliant analysis. I agree with all of it. Do you think also that it will I mean, how is he going to react.

when at 911 on Friday, an event? Because he's a New Yorker, he knows how important it was 25th anniversary. He's not going to be there. The other presidents are going to be there. So George W Bush, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, the Clintons will all be there and he won't be there. Well, I think they have automatically upstaged his RNC palooza at this point.

Well, I think that he's he's hoping that his RNC. plan, Trump allows a. will will. upstage or compete with them and compete with nine over 11. I mean, I think he feels competitive with 911 I do too. That's what this whole I was there. Yeah yeah I know 25th anniversary I mean I'm sure he's been stewing about that. You know, I really didn't do I really should have gone down there.

I really should have had gotten some pictures of me with. Yes, exactly. Where are the pictures? You know that if he'd been there, there would have been pictures. Instead, there are just hilarious fake videos of. of firemen carrying him out and and his whole narrative about it. I'm kind of a big guy, said, fellas, hey, put me down. But this idea that they're treating him as a heroic figure when literally people. were jumping from the building, it's it's unspeakable, unconscionable.

But but, I mean, I think that he that he sees this. and he is triangulating this, this is not it is not just happenstance. I mean, first thing, this whole idea, remember, of a of a of a mini convention, I mean, he demanded this or ordered this into place. I mean, the Republicans are going like, oh, and you have all many, many significant figures. in the Republican Party who aren't showing up for this. Well, you've got Susan Collins who's not going, you've got John Sununu.

in New Hampshire, who's not going, Susan Collins in a tight race in Maine. against Troy Jackson after our friend Graham Plattner dropped out. Your friend? My friend. How how should the Democrats react to this? And can we have a moment, please, on John Fetterman? What was that? We can the the Democrats I mean, the Democrats probably shouldn't react. I mean, you know, when you're when your enemy is.

is destroying himself state of the way. Yeah. As for. oh, God, the Fetterman thing, you know, sometimes, you know, people are. People. really go out of their way to find a little love. And Fetterman is clearly not getting love from other Democrats, so I'm sure he thinks I'll try. I'll try the Republicans.

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So to get an exclusive 60% off. an annual incognito plan, go to incognito. or click the link in the episode description. That's incognito. For people who haven't seen this Fetterman. John Fetterman, senator from Pennsylvania, who had a terrible stroke. and then had depression.

like increasingly politicians seemed to have and disappeared. for a period, is back with what seemed like. I mean, it was only a minute a big room of Republicans in Dallas. Yes. Senator John Fetterman, Pennsylvania. Yes, I'm a Democrat. Why am I here talking to you today? Because, well, I'm a common sense Democrat, but. it looked like it had been cut, according to one of our producers, 6 or 7 times.

So it wasn't clear to me that he could produce a fluid introduction. of true that that's true. And I just just one thing, you know, when Fetterman had this stroke, the Democrats came to his support. I mean, you know, they they thought, oh, this is a guy. There was some hope for that. He would be a, you know, a new kind of. kind of working class voice or. Well, he'd never really had a job, had he?

And he'd been to Harvard and his parents were absolutely. Well, whatever the thing is, but that his party came to his support. at that point when and this ought to be just a cautionary tale. You know, sometimes you got to cut it off. I mean, he had a stroke, then depression. This is this is a guy who shouldn't have been a United States senator. Well, he doesn't enjoy being a United States senator. We should have in the Democratic Party said, okay, this is not this is okay. This is not going to work out. Right.

And also, we know that he doesn't enjoy. being a senator because his staff last year, last week, he says disgruntled former staffers released a series of his texts. in which he really attributed to almost anybody asking his office for help. The worst possible motives, you know, he said, oh, people just want a free trip. I mean, I mean, he obviously doesn't enjoy the job. Obviously, this is a person with with a kind of range of issues. Whatever those issues are, stroke related or not, should not be imposed.

upon the American people and on his constituents. Right. And just for those who didn't see it and just going to finish. what I was saying, which is that he gave an introduction to his fellow. Senator David McCormick in Pennsylvania, who is a Republican, and he said, you know, we're going to work with Donald Trump to get the steel mills. open again, to get manufacturing back to Pennsylvania. I mean, it's in fantasyland. Fantasyland.

It's so. the other thing, Sarah Weiss and I hope we can flash up. her pictures here from our Washington bureau, went down there. The place was half empty. Donald Trump was telling everybody it was completely full, that were crowds. outside battering the doors down to get in. But this was like his first inauguration crowd. It's not true. Not only were people, you know, political candidates staying away. apart from the most MAGA of the sucker stop of the suckers.

But, but the public weren't going either. The supporters know. But I think it's important to to to emphasize that's not the real. There is an audience here, and the audience is a hard core MAGA audience. Right. And the audience is TV. The TV audience. Yeah. But I'm not even sure that the TV or first, I don't think the TV audience. is going to be that great. And in fact, the TV audience, I think, will probably work against him.

You get a lot of independent voters, you get a lot of people who are saying, what the hell? But the, the, the, the real point is to go to have. this kind of Trump all the time. Trump celebration for the core of the Trump support. That's the support that that he depends on. He lives off of. He is that will propel him beyond the presidency.

to still the leadership of the Republican Party, because the Republican Party is a. this is such a key group in in the party's fortunes. They can't they can't ignore these people. They can't overrule these people. Right. So he's getting his lifeblood, his energy, his electricity. from the crowd in the room, even though it's a diminished crowd. Do we think that Scott Besson, his Treasury secretary, who was up there talking about his policies.

and how we had to double down and the best was yet to come? Do we think that he knew that Donald Trump was going to suddenly announce that for. if the Republicans win the midterms, every adult in America is going to get a check for $5,000. You know, I've seen the people around Trump respond to what. Trump says, and it's very possible that that came to Trump in the in the moment. Right. Well, that's what it looked like. And and and and they, they, they have this kind of the reaction is.

is a kind of like I mean they're bracing for impact once he gets up there, but they're also used to it and they also discount it. Yes. Okay. This is absurd and ridiculous and it'll never happen. And but it will never happen. Do you think that it will go away too? Right. So that in two weeks from now it will be what? So do you think he was saying it? Because he knows that they're not going to win. So he's very safe.

I mean, you could have offered $10,000. I don't think it makes any difference to him whether they win or not. Nobody's getting $5,000. I will, I will assure you of that. Okay. Well, you know who did get $45,000? Natalie. Ha. Margot. Martin. Chamberlain. Harris. What a name. Shout out to the name Chamberlain. Harris. If I'd had a daughter, I would like to have called a Chamberlain. Not the Harris bit, but the Chamberlain bit. And Walter. What? Wasn't he a a famous prime minister who sold.

Oh, yes. To actually, a very good point. Yes. Neil Chamberlain, I have in my hand a piece of paper. Yes. All right. Well, I was scared about that. All right. Moving, moving swiftly on. I'd forgotten about that. Although there's always will Chamberlain that you're coming back to. because you're always referring to Will Chamberlain. 20,000 women that he has had sex with Donald Trump is competing with. Yeah. Though it's a bit harder for him now, we think, because we're told he's post sex, but who knows.

They got $45,000. in cash from Donald Trump last year, it emerged. What do you think? That's okay. Can we just focus on that? $45,000 Natalie Harp earns $150,000. So Natalie Harp gets $45,000 in cash. In cash as a bonus. But when you say in cash, he's counting out $100 bills.

I don't know, but I mean, it's, you know, the report is $45,000 in cash. and sort of like petty cash, almost like, you know, did he get it from that box. that every office seems to have with a kind of weird slit in the top? That I guess you put money in the petty cash box? You know what I'm talking about. There will be lots of people listening who remember cash. I mean, does anybody have cash in you? I don't even know what this means. $45,000 in cash. You got $45,000? She got 45,000. However it was.

Why did she get it? Why did she? And Marco Martin and Chamberlain Harris not related to. Neville Chamberlain, get this extra money? And then, Walter, how do we pronounce his name? Nota. Who? The guy with the scissors. Yeah, he got 25,000. They say I can hear it. Nada. Nat. What? Walter Natta, it's always Walton at Walt. Well, yeah. Wow. Well, now got 25,000. You were asking this question in a way that might suggest.

that it's a rhetorical question, but I think I'm actually. Why are they getting such big? I think I have a well, you would normally ask it as. a rhetorical question because nobody knows why are they getting this money? It's the classic rhetorical question. There isn't an answer, except that I think I have an answer. Go on. I know that in the past, in other situations, Trump has has come up with. with amounts of money at certain moments.

when he felt that he was not he was not he was not covered enough. Well, when there weren't NDAs. or when he was not uncovered enough by the NDAs in place. So essentially he is buying a further NDA, which is, you know, this is a common place in business. You don't you sign an NBA in NDA because you've been given something, right? As a matter of fact, it's. hard to enforce it and NDA when you have not been given something. It's it's a transaction.

So so you think that he's asked them to sign another NDA. for which they get $45,000? I mean, that would that is my theory of the case. because it has happened before, and he's gone to them and said and said, okay, we got you got to sign up another NDA because for. whatever rationale, I'm the obvious rationale. because these people know our, our, our privy. to so much inside of Donald Trump's very small bubble.

So he's gone and said, okay, we know the lawyers say we we. you know, we got to we got to do this. But in what we're going to do, we're going to give you an additional $45,000 to. which will be accounted for as a bonus or, or in whatever, whatever way it needs to be. But that's what we're going to get for this. Wow. And do they not sign an NDA anyway to work in?

Usually in from what I know, yes, there are always a lot of NDAs. floating around, but there's always an issue about how they are enforceable. So and then there's always an effort to make these NDAs more enforceable. I mean, it's a very it's a very problematic. How do you enforce an NDA when you're in a political situation, when you're on the the, you know, you're essentially.

on the payroll of the United States government? The people's payroll, you might say so. So that's that's a kind of constant discussion and a constant analysis. and reanalysis. And do we know if this $45,000 is government money? Is this our tax money or is this Trump money. Good. Good question I don't know. And and there would probably be some if this were a matter of getting an NDA.

of of of a transaction that got you an NDA, that would probably be relevant where the money comes from. But but I don't know. And we should say that this is, this is my theory on this. theory of the case based on what he has done in the past. Okay. So we don't know it to be true, but it's a it's a robust theory based on previous behaviors. Robust I like that idea. Robust theory. Robust theory okay. So we're still Michael, as we mentioned earlier on at war with Iran.

And it's not going away. And his people, Marco Rubio the secretary. of State JD Vance and Pete. think that we're not going to get out of it any time soon. Well, also, the the Iranians. clearly have no intention of letting us get out of it anytime soon. And the Iranians have basically gone back to war. Right. Well, and we saw this week they bombed eight.

F-15 aircraft that were sitting on an American base in Jordan. So half $1 billion worth of equipment just vaporized. I thought we were supposed to have obliterated. their military capabilities. In this. I guess that's from the same script as Donald Trump going down to. Yeah, it came down to 911 and going down to ground zero and being a hero.

And the fireman, why does he think I mean, what a story as well, that the firemen somehow picked him up and took him out of there. I mean, as if they didn't have other things to do. Again, putting himself at the center. No, I've been trying to trying to imagine how this how this occurs. I mean, I mean, the whole tableau of this. Right? I guess Trump, we better get you out of here. Yeah. Saying we're going to we're going to pick you up and and and.

and take you to safety because you're risking yourself. Meanwhile, literally people are jumping out of the building. Well, also people are coming, coming, coming down. I mean, I mean, yes, why would the firemen spend time on. and also have his own crew with him and his crew? Trump. And he said he'd taken his own crew. So surely the crew would say, Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, we can't let you go in there. Not firemen who've got real people to attend to, smothered.

in ash, choking, having seen unspeakable horrors. And so let's assume that he that he's made this up, this is the story that he would made up, that I'm being carried out by firemen. So what does that tell you? It's his fantasy to be carried out by to farm and mine too, but not at 911. Yeah. I'm it's just horrifying. It's horrifying. And it's so I mean, I know what happens and and I've seen it. literally just comes to him in the moment.

Yeah. So he just said suddenly, he suddenly has this vision of that. And now I think like the $5,000 payment suddenly like, hey, I know $5,000 for every adult if the Republicans win. And actually, even the people standing behind him didn't look like they believed it. There were 3 or 4 women and they were holding up. Trump science, and one of them barely moved. She was just sort of looking skeptical at the camera. So it's all no. Remember the Venezuela announcement?

And he got up there and then said, who's going to be running? We're going to be running it. And all of those people behind those horrified. Yeah. He basically pointed at Marco, didn't he? Yeah. And it's a thing. And I mean, obviously it's a point that we have made again. and again and again that there is no plan here, that it is just. comes out of his head at the very at the very moment it comes into his head, it comes out of his head, which is why we call this podcast for.

for new people who've joined us, because there are lots of new people that join us every week. We call it Inside Trump's head, because that's the place. that strangely seems to be the most important place in the world. No, it it is. We assume that American politics is created, policies are created, the the the logic. And the world is guided by a, a, a Washington, DC, which has all kinds of a smart people, smart people, dumb people.

But it is a it is a massive collaborative. exercise in democracy and. No, it ain't no it ain't no it ain't system. It's for and again, you know, because he doesn't listen to anybody. he takes no advice, can get no advice because he can't. He does literally doesn't hear anything from anyone, doesn't read anything. It is just this singular person.

who is firing in random directions. So he's been firing at the mail in voting, and I find the Mail-In voting story. It's quite complicated and it's quite detailed. But what he has managed to do, and we should remind people. 30% of Americans actually vote use Mail-In. Voting in Colorado is almost exclusively a mail in your vote state. He's managed to sow confusion about whether or not it's still legal.

And let's let's remember. the baseline here is that it is legal. And the courts have have. pretty consistently supported this idea. And yet we are at this moment in which, in which. if I think I think everybody's feelings is, oh my God, there is it legal? Is it happening? We don't know.

And again, it is it is before the Supreme Court. I mean, the Supreme Court has basically tried to indicate. in every way possible that this is that, that this is legal. We don't want to get involved in this. This is a state issue. And then Trump keeps bringing it back before the court, which, which creates this situation. of, of absolute uncertainty, if not the sense of chaos. Right. Well, it's the chaos that I think is most concerning.

And again, just sowing doubt in the election results. And we know that actually America's election process, which is devolved and run by the states, it's not federalized, is largely a pretty reliable process. I mean, we've heard from many people actually, who who listen to the podcast, watch the podcast, who have either volunteered as election workers or. been professional, you know, full time election workers, that the system is safe.

And let's let's remember, there has never this has not even been an issue. This is Donald Trump's issue, not an issue outside of Donald Trump. An issue only when only. when Donald Trump lost an election. So so I mean, where did and one of the ways and okay, I mean the the. the scenario, the state of play is he is looking at a midterm elections.

in which, in which are significantly stacked against him. or stacked against him, because the party holding. the white House is always at a disadvantage. Plus, he is one of the most unpopular. presidents in in the modern history of the presidency. So not good. Plus, there's a whole list of policies that. that have been distinctly unsuccessful under Donald Trump.

Distinctly unsuccessful. Not good. So what is he going to do? Well, you know, he is going to try. instead of instead of moderating those those policies. or doing all of the things that a normal president would do. Okay, this is where this is not going so well. So we ought to try for a reset. Donald Trump doesn't reset. He doubles down. So what is he going to do, come for this election?

Well, he's going to try to reset. the actual terms on which people vote. or are able to vote in the actual terms about who votes. So, so we're. going into this, to this, to this, into the midterms. And that then becomes a significant variable. Can he disrupt the election enough to gain a. to gain an advantage, a significant advantage?

That's the question. And does he then challenge you know, there are, I think 35 seats in Congress that are probably in play. There are probably six Senate seats that are actually in play. Does he then just challenge the results of every single one? Well, we hold up the whole process and we don't know we're not even there yet. So that'll be that'll give us many episodes after the election.

But and clearly he's not there yet. What they're doing now, the phase that they are in now is trying. to trying to disrupt the, the, the, the procedures. for voting in a way that will redound to their advantage. Right. So and then what will happen if they lose? Well yeah, that's a whole other chapter. Okay. So one more thing I wanted to discuss with you, Jimmy Kimmel.

Jimmy Kimmel has been a thorn. in Donald Trump's side more than the other late night comedians. Well, I guess Stephen Colbert was dropped by CBS. Jimmy Kimmel is now about to interview. James Talarico, but he's not going to do it on his show. Totally fascinating. He's not going to do it on his show because his network, Donald Trump, has now threatened. There is and this is somewhat complicated.

There is FCC rules. called the Fairness Doctrine. Now, the Fairness Doctrine has not been enforced, not been. And I don't even actually know the official legal status of it. Is it still is it still a regulatory principle as it once was? So when there were three networks, the the. the rules and the networks, these are over-the-air networks.

The air is owned by the United, by the people of the United States. Therefore, it is regulated on that basis. And the regulation was that if you had on one a politician. from one party, you had to have a politician on from the other party. It was like an equal time thing. Absolutely. That's that's exactly what it was. And this went by. It became obsolete with the rise of,

well, cable networks, not to mention social media, not to mention. so many other aspects of, of, of modern communications. Now, because cable is not over the air, it cannot be it is not regulated by the FCC. So they could not then say to cable stations, you, you, you have they could not enforce a fairness doctrine. So that seemed at best anomalous.

that they would not enforce it on cable, but have to enforce it on, on over the air. Therefore it has it has basically been the fairness document. doctrine has been moribund, except recently the Trump administration. has started to threaten the networks with. enforcement of the of the. of the equal time fairness rules. So and in the case of Jimmy.

Kimmel and and Donald Trump. obviously has gone out of his way to frustrate Jimmy Kimmel. in, in every sense, in every way that he could. And I think Jimmy Kimmel has gone out of his way to frustrate Donald Trump. in every way that he can. But so in order to for Kimmel. to interview Talarico, he has had to he can't do it on the air conduit on ABC, which is his network.

He can't do it on ABC. And ABC is now fighting several battles with the Trump administration. So what they're doing is they're doing this and they're doing this. interview, but they're broadcasting it only on YouTube where we are broadcasting. And so it's an interesting first, an interesting play. And I would I don't I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but. I imagine that Kimmel's numbers on YouTube are greater.

than they are on on ABC. But it is this other thing. So it goes to this other, other other issue of of the. the obsolescence of also of network television that, that, you know, the world is happening now on there. I say YouTube. Yeah. Well we interviewed James Tallarico on, on YouTube, but it's significant that Jimmy Kimmel has figured out a workaround. Well, it's, you know, you know, when when I published my last book,

All or Nothing, and that came out in in February 2024. So just when, when Trump had come back into power, was threatening all kinds of things, had sued. I think he was. 2025 February 20th, 2025. They came out a month after the inauguration. Right? So it covers the the the 2024 election. And in Trump came into office and in, you know, announcing that he was he had the media in his sights.

He was suing I think he had already sued ABC. They had already made us come to a settlement with him. or were just about that, that that point. George Stephanopoulos it was an interview he'd done with Nancy Mace. And so and every network was, was looking squarely at this and was was fearful. And I remember when my book came out and that would have been the first book. in this, in this second, second term.

And I immediately all the bookings. that I had had before the election, when people still thought he would, he would write to publicize the book, were were canceled. Every one of them down the line canceled. And then that's that's the moment in which I thought, I, you know, what am I going to do? And, and when to social media. started an Instagram account, which I have not had, not had before. And, and then we started to do,

to do podcasting and which, which has been. actually much more successful than, than the traditional television outlets. I mean, I what do I have a million followers on Instagram? We do a business now that is larger than any, well, any cable primetime show other than Fox. So so this is. the Kimmel is part of this movement here that is about Donald Trump,

but it's also about the increasing obsolescence of the old networks. Right. And it's about people wanting a greater freedom and independence, independence, to be able to say what you want, which is a good moment for me to say. Please subscribe to The Daily Beast if you haven't yet. We've got 700 and I think 50,000 subscribers at this point. We've been doing this just over a year. Yeah. No, I mean these are these are now,

these are now. we are competitive. No competition or more. And that's a, that's a that's a seismic change. Well, and the thing I like is that when you go on a Daily Beast. or Inside Trump's Head podcast live, you can see the community. You can see, you know, all the names. I now I now know Cindy Brown, John Hart, all these people. that come on and talk about the content of what we're talking about.

They talk to each other. There is a really big community, and you can. sometimes go on as 8000 people, you know, pouring in what they think about what we're saying, ideas for a suggestions. And that's not possible with television either. You're never talking to other people who are viewing it, especially now. There's no water cooler moment anymore because people watch on their own time. And actually the premieres of our show, you can see people beginning. to wait for them. They enjoy the fact that it's a collective experience.

No. Jimmy Kimmel, who is is one of my. frequent commenters on Instagram, is is not only his move that's it's really interesting is not only. not only against Donald Trump, but it's against ABC too. I mean, I think I think I think Kimmel knows that the future is somewhere else. Well, and aren't we waiting.

for Stephen Colbert to open up on YouTube? And John Oliver. certainly has, I'm sure, more followers on YouTube than he has on HBO. Know the YouTubers of the world is. kind of extraordinary. We applaud you. YouTube. Now I'm sounding like Tony De Koppel at the end of his, I think, second. broadcast for CBS news when he said, we salute you, Florida man Marco Rubio, we salute you, YouTube, for allowing us to have independent conversations.

No. Well, CBS and then and then Paramount. and yeah, whatever is going to CNN. And, you know, this is this is this, this becomes some, some other reality like people still are doing this. People are, still are still think that they can make businesses out of this, you know. Well look at all the you mean. Well, you know, you actually have they are doing this. because the Ellison family doesn't have to make a business out of this. Right? This is.

a vanity project of, of of a, of a kind of. what do you think that Larry Ellison thinks about his son doing this? Because this is now I mean, in theory, if this had been one of those deals. that got done quickly, if it had gone through smoothly, he might have been fine with it. But I suspect if you're the father looking at the son struggling. with this messy deal, now, you're not best pleased. I mean, as a as a tech mogul, for the most part, he's actually had a low profile.

And now the Ellison family is sort of taking it on the chin. for essentially ending CBS 60 minutes. The new episodes are about to drop. There'll be all sorts of attention to that. Do you think Larry Ellison thinks this is a good move, that David Ellison did? You know? People really. love to be part of the media?

I mean, and I think Larry Ellison had many opportunities. to be part of the second, third richest man in the world. I'm not sure he had so many opportunities. You know, this is now. Now he doesn't have to be his son is the media. And these guys like control. Control, control control dominance. Dominance. And remember they think they can do everything. I think they can do everything. And and then on top of that they're winning favor with Donald Trump.

So so far I think that this is kind of win win for them. It will become lose lose. when they really start to lose a lot of money, when when. they really realize that they've bought a business. that is that is yesterday's business. And, and the world has moved on. And and when Larry. Ellison starts to tell his son what to do and his son becomes.

annoyed with the father, and yeah, you can you can write this one. Well, perhaps this will be your next book, father and son. The Ellison's all right. We have a Limerick. Where would we be if we didn't have a Limerick? And this is from a new Limerick. pumpkin 06330, and it's about RFK junior. Pumpkin. No. Oh, pumpkin. No, I think you might be right.

Pumpkin. Ono. Right. Cheeseburger. Three eggs is the breakfast of kings. Much better than snorting off toilet seat rings. The Kennedy name, once historically classy. now based on this menu, is prone to be gassy. Okay, this is my favorite. That's pretty good, isn't it? That's pretty. Pretty good I love it. RFK junior well done pumpkin Ono. Well done pumpkin no. We will be back on Saturday for more.

Trump a loser. Trump is a loser. Trump is a loser. Trump is a loser. Will be obviously dissecting what JD Vance says and how Trump comes in. over the top of him. Yeah, no. We got. Is this good or bad for JD Vance being being pushed out in front of this, this crazy crowd, this empty hall? Will there be fewer seats for JD Vance than they were for Donald? Well, we'll be counting. Sarah. Your Ys will be down there counting every single seat.

We'll be back on Saturday morning. Well, Saturday afternoon actually, we record it Saturday morning, but. we'll actually drop the episode Saturday afternoon full of the latest gossip. And we should probably ring the white House. and find out what they think about your NDA theory. You know, you do this. You call the white House all the time. They say the same things P brain, whatever. So this is performative on your part. Okay. Then we're not going to call them. We won't call them.

Thank you. Ryan. John. Heather Rachel Neil. Pretty good. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.