'Weird' Stephen Miller Is Trump's Biggest Suck-Up | Inside Trump's Head

We've gone around to several white House people. I said, explain Stephen Miller to me. What, because he's, you know, I mean, as a as we we talked. the other the other day, he's a weirdo. Even Trump acknowledges that he's a he's a weirdo. So I said, explain this to me. Explain this rise. How does he keep rising? And across the board, there's. there's one explanation, and everybody rushes to it. They say he's the most incredible suck up.

You have never seen this. I mean, the flattery, the oohs. You know, when he is in the room with with. with the president, with with with Trump, it just can't stop. And it's one of the few things. And as I say, several people are reporting this to me. It's one of the few things that makes Trump shut up. He just likes to listen, this whole effort to to remake The Color of America. is really comes down to Stephen Miller's ability.

to flatter the president even more than Hegseth. He sucks up. Stephen Miller is the winner of the suck up contest. Michael. Oh my God, Joanna. Oh my God, Michael. We are going so deep inside Trump's head. But I'm worried that it's just a kind of. I think it might just be a lot of electrical fuzes. I love our design here of of inside Trump.

So you can't say I love, white. Can you see it? There we go. I love the design of it inside, Trump said. That's literally what it feels like. It must be going on right there. What? What are we going to find? I can't even explain the succession. of things that have happened virtually in the last. day or slightly longer. I mean, it is from the, from breaking up, the blowing up, the relationship. with Canada over a fit of pique over some ad on television.

to, pardoning this. crypto billionaire kingpin. Does does he think no one will notice. his own family is in the crypto business? To demanding this is this is like, extraordinary. that this $230 million that the government, the government that he runs should pay him over perceived injustices. Well, his own Justice Department right.

To of course, bulldozing the white House. Did you leave out blowing up roundabouts in. what started as the Caribbean is now spread to the Pacific? It's actually even even broader than that. It's like a new kind of kind of, a policy. The I, the military can kill anyone on my orders. And then there's some statement, I mean, an extraordinary. My God, we are going to kill. anybody who brings drugs into our country.

We're going to kill them. They will be, like, dead. Now, what explains that? Except that the person. This person must be, head banging Lee off his rocker. Well, and he's surrounded by people that are. not having any sense of restraint around him. Pete Haeg says, well, hold on, we haven't even mentioned the Pete Hegseth. telling members of the military they're not allowed to talk to Congress.

in case they inadvertently give something away. But that is I mean, it's not to forgive these people, but, but it's certainly can be explained. They cannot do that. They cannot they do not have any portfolio. to criticize him to. Certainly not to criticize him. And certainly not even to advise him on a better path. It just it just you're out if you're going to do that.

Well. And also what he's also created is this sort of constant. presence in the public with his endless press conferences. I mean, it's so fascinating. The juxtaposition against Biden, who I think did six press conferences. in his last year. Now, obviously we know why, but Trump all the time, I mean, you keep making the point that he just talks all the time. All the time. Yeah. No, that's I mean, he talks in private. If you're with him, it's a, it's a monologue in, in public. And they're not different.

By the way, I mean, he, he says, oh, I mean, the man is remarkably consistent. He says the same thing to everyone. I mean, it's actually. it's actually why it's relatively easy to write about him. because you can you can sort of you can track what, what he's saying from from person to person to person to person. So when you're talking to people in the white House, which I know. you do all the time, what are they saying about this particular moment?

You know, I talk to them. It's not particularly exceptional. This is what this is what he does. This is, you know, he goes deeper into being Donald Trump, which is which is the threat and which is the danger. Now, you know, there's I mean, I've had some conversations. about about with, with them about what's, you know, the motivation here. of, of pushing forward in ways.

that are, yeah, you know, can very easily backfire. I mean, very easily I mean, $230 million. pardoning, pardoning this crypto guy, bulldozing the white House. Why would you do this on any logical. from from the view of any political logic, this can be. and likely is going to be very damaging to you. So why would you do that? And, you know, pressing people, it's,

I mean, it first thing, it's Trump. I mean, that's always the explanation. It's Trump. Don't try to question it because there's no reason. There's no it's not going to get you any place to question it. And and you know and it's Trump does these things. And yet he survives and flourishes. So don't question it. But the other aspect is, is people do feel he's in a rush. Now is the moment.

And the moment could reverse almost at any time. I mean, if in the, if in the midterms, the Democrats were to win. Congress, well, that that would be a serious impediment. Or, at the end of these four years, he probably will be, despite Steve Bannon in his third term, despite my late at night fears. The logic is that he would still be out of office and he's doing this. This is it.

He's this is, the man in the moment. Well, it it does almost feel like he's been told he's got a terminal disease. And so he's being as disruptive as he possibly can be. I mean, the idea that we are on day, I think we're recording this. on a Friday morning. I think we're on day 24 of the government shutdown. We have hundreds of thousands of government employees. who are not being paid. We have TSA workers who like, let me finish.

I have a point here, that we have hundreds of decent. TSA people who are turning up to make sure that regular Americans get their flights. to go off and do those sales calls and, and go on family trips. And he has his hand in the government. to for a quarter of $1. billion, is appalling. It's appalling. May I. You may, you may. I think it's an interesting moment because only now at this, at this like.

today or yesterday are our checks failing to arrive for government employees. So, the, the, the squeeze is now on people. And this is, this is literally hundreds of thousands of people. are going to start to feel this. So what's the effect of that that going to be? I mean, it's going to be pressure on both the Democrats and the Republicans. But it's a new phase of pressure and a new phase of of the shutdown.

All right. I want to come back to some of these points. But I also wanted to say how struck. I have been on your behalf. So the outpouring of support. with your decision to sue Melania Trump. and I will say, I've known you for 25 years. We've joked about the UPS and downs in our relationships. We've had feuds. We've had a couple of years where we didn't speak.

That was largely over one of us canceling too many lunches. But, I think I've that's not me. I was not the one canceling this. I think this is the nearest I've ever seen. to seeing you being moved. Is that fair? I mean, I've seen you through some major emotional moments in your life, and I have seen you moved by the support that people have had for you. The offering of financial support. I mean, I think it's I think it's it's I think it's totally incredible.

And I think it, you know, I while I'm grateful for the support for me. individually, I think it's also a sign. that everybody is looking for something to do here. How do you push back, how do you stop this? I mean, this is this is up till today, up till now and continuing now. Unstoppable. We something has to be done. I mean, you know, I mean, people pour into the streets when there's an opportunity, when.

almost at. any opportunity, I mean, but there are few. I mean, no kings twice a year or whatever, whatever. That's that's that schedule is people want to be able. to stand up. So, so yes, so I am, but I am, I am, I am certainly personally, personally, grateful. Stunned. Relieved to. Yeah. Relieved I think. All right, so we were talking in our last episode about Stephen Miller,

lots of very enthusiastic comments trying to get at who is this man. that's been so responsible for the policy against immigrants. and these awful ice raids on people. with masked men jumping out and wrestling people and zip tying them? I mean, it's quite shocking. I still don't think I understand. where his so-called philosophy is, if one can even call it that. Comes from in terms of.

hating people that very clearly work at the top of the American food chain. in tech in California, and also literally till the fields and pick the plants. and pick the vegetables and fruits that that keep Americans fed. You know, I mean, I think, I think explaining the roots of racism, which this fundamentally is, and the, the, the roots of this kind of resentment.

against the whole a whole class of people is, you know, I mean. The immigration issue is a complicated one. Immigration. And the Democrats have failed on this issue. And I think we can acknowledge that. I think the Democrats would acknowledge that, them immigrate. when you don't pay attention to immigration, when there isn't some logic to it, when you close your eyes to it.

and suddenly, suddenly it becomes a, an unstoppable force is destabilizes governments. It's throughout Europe. That's that's the effect. And here it's the effect. But this is, that's is ultimately a structural question. How do you manage this, this process, this in inevitable process. People want to come to this, to this, to this country. That's a that's a sign of health rather than the than than the opposite it.

But so how do you manage that then you take so but that has to be. has to be juxtaposed to this other thing, this which Stephen Miller represents, which is a kind of pure hatred, revulsion. Enmity. That for him to take this in a personal.

in such a clearly personal way, and yet, you know, I mean, I think it's, I think it's layer, and the interesting thing is, it's so glaringly obvious there's no, there's no, even pretense to make this something else, to find a way. to find a reasonable rationalization. for this. So, you know, I mean, it becomes,

and, and, and, you know, I, I think, I think at this, at this point, at this point, you. will, you know, why one hesitates. to go there for a lot of reasons. You know, this is a round up of the Jews, but they're not Jews. They're they're brown immigrants. Can you remind people again? Because I was struck that I didn't fully realize this. Why is it specifically,

Mexicans and South Americans. that Stephen Miller seems to be going after? I don't think that that's true. I think it's anybody who's who's Brown Indians are in this. It's just clearly not not people. who are white. And, and and that's in this goes to, to something that is at the heart of heart of MAGA. I think it's at the heart of a of a of a, the Trump thing that this,

this idea that we are losing. that, that and that within. you know, we're in the process of, of, of, of white Americans. becoming a minority to brown Americans. And so there's the effort to exclude. the people who Stephen Miller believes. are not Americans, Brown, brown people. So so this is this is a, you know, a fundamental to this,

to this, to the Trump administration is this rollback. How do we make America look like it looked in 1965? And that's a rollback of of and we've discussed this before. And I think these are the pillars of what of the. of the MAGA vision to rollback civil rights to roll back rollback. The the,

the progress of, of of equity for women. and for to change the, the. to rollback what has happened with a fairly large amount of immigration, massive immigration over the last generation, the brown, Brown immigration. So how does this work when Stephen Miller is in the room with JD Vance? And of course, JD Vance is married to a woman. whose parents came from India, who's very clearly Brown.

How do they even begin a conversation? I've gone around. several white House people. I said, explain Stephen Miller to me. What? Because he's, you know, I mean, as a as we we talked. the other the other day, he's a weirdo. Even Trump acknowledges that he's a he's a weirdo. So I said, explain this to me. Explain this rise. How does he keep rising? And and across the board, there's there's one explanation.

And everybody rushes to it. They say he's the most incredible suck up. You have never seen this? I mean, the flattery, the oohs. You know, when he is in the room with with. with the president, with with with Trump, it just can't stop. And it's one of the few things. And as I say, several people are reporting this to me. It's one of the few things that makes Trump shut up.

He just likes to listen. How does his career continue to flourish when everybody knows he's a weirdo? Even the president, even Trump acknowledges he's a weirdo. He's not really somebody anybody is comfortable with who. you really want, want to be around in, who and who you might trust on any matter. Because he's so weird, looking at you. with those, with that, with those weird eyes. But anyway, everybody responds the same way and they rush to say it.

He survives and thrives because he's such an amazing suck up. So of course he likes to listen to this. So this is what all of this, this, you know, I picking up people, masks sweeping people off the street. This whole effort to to remake The Color of America. is really comes down to Stephen Miller's ability to flatter the president.

But but, Michael, we are in a cabinet of suck ups. Nobody sucks up as well as Pete Hegseth is always sucking up. Marco Rubio sucking up. No, no. Well, that's what I'm saying. Even more than Hegseth, he sucks up. So. So he is the he is the the winner. Stephen Miller is the winner of the suck up contest. Even more than the labor secretary who said, Mr. President, we have hung a huge, you know, great tapestry of your face.

on the side of the Labor Department, even more than that person. Yes, even more, I mean, and everybody has to do this. This is the price. These are the table stakes. How much you can you can, you can be, absolutely. prostrate in your flattery of the president. Those are the table stakes. And then you have to raise them who can do it even more. And that apparently is Stephen Miller.

So can you give us any elements of Miller suck up, Ari? I mean, how does he go above Pete Hegseth or the labor secretary? What are the words or is it something in the tone of his voice? Does he bring him gifts? What is the. It is just the these kinds of these kinds of statements. You and I mean, you have to I mean, the the, the. the essence of flattery is in flattery to, to to. a, a degree beyond logic is shamelessness.

How shameless are you? Your ability to say this, this, this shit that nobody else was nobody in their right mind. Nobody who has a degree of of of, of objectivity or integrity or or, you know, all, all, all, all of the attributes that make. for some level of skepticism and independence. So putting all that aside, and if you can put all that aside.

and it's, it's, it's, it's it's hard. Then you produce a kind of thing. that you would not know. One. anyone else outside of this would who, who might listen to it, would understand that. you're a, that you're just you you've given up yourself, you've given up, you have no, no inner self anymore. And it's all directed to this goal of what you want, which then comes.

through the, this one man who needs to be, needs, needs to be flattered. Not just flattered, but more than the last person who flattered. Him needs to be massaged. And, it's. Anyway, let's also talk about. Stephen Miller's domestic life, because several people have said, well, wait a minute, didn't Stephen Miller's wife go off to work for Elon Musk?

And this was around. the same time that Elon Musk appeared to the right of the president. As the president sat swinging his legs from behind. the resolute desk, Elon Musk had a black eye. What can you tell us about Mrs. Miller, who I don't think lasted very long working for Elon Musk. And she was apparently devoted to him until until not. So what is Mrs. Miller doing now? I think she has a podcast. Well, that's a safe, safe bet. Doesn't everybody? But yes.

Perhaps we should invite her as a guest on our podcast to explain. Okay, let's let's do it. Should we do that? We can. I I'm not sure if there's a crossover in audience, but, Mrs. Miller, if you're listening, we would love to invite you on our podcast. Who knows? I think they're an interesting I mean, they're a power couple. What does it mean to be a power couple? They, you know, they are. They are, two people who met each other in Washington with, with with,

you know, I mean, clearly enormously, both of them enormously ambitious, and I think both of them with a clarity about what. that what realizing that ambition. would involve in, in the Trump years. And then the other aspect of this is to realize, and I think. and a lot of people around Trump have, have, have realized this, that. they would not have that opportunity, the opportunity with, with, with anyone else there in, in, in most of the people,

in, in the administration from Hegseth to Kennedy to to bond. They are not people who would have, would have had success. in any kind of more traditional, administration and traditional, evaluation of of experience. and accomplishment and skills. so that, that, that, that, that creates this,

that creates this really. interesting kind of kind of, kind of pressure. I mean, this is your opportunity. You are not going to have an opportunity like, like this. this again, I mean, I think Trump himself feels that. But people around Trump feel feel that too. That, that, that now. now is the time in their lives and in history.

which they might uniquely prosper. So, they better do everything possible. to take advantage of that right now. And, and I'm sure that this has felt that way in other in other authoritarian. and despotic regimes, which are all in there in, in a sense, in a sense for their product of, of, of a moment's circumstance.

I mean, in often a terrible moments circumstance, but kind of everyone in that situation then realizes that, that in a normal world, they, they, they, they would be excluded from a normal world. So therefore they, they, they find themselves. doubling down on their own abnormality. Well, and also. what's curious is that, as you say, Donald Trump gives them an opportunity.

they wouldn't have in a normal or a more normal era. And so not only, does he enable them, but they enable him with their extremes. So, as you say, Donald Trump isn't even that. particularly invested in what Stephen Miller is doing. But Stephen Miller turns out to be useful for Donald Trump. Yeah. No, no, definitely. And there is this idea in other, more normal. that let's continue to use use that word in other.

in more normal circumstances, the premium is on being normal. And I actually you kind of. you kind of, you thrive on being the person. who is the most normal, the most regular, the most showing up on time, the most doing it the most conservative way. The, the. people who, people who, who create the least amount of friction, all of those kinds of things.

I mean, you've seen it many time and in, in, in many offices. But this goes the, the, the, the other way, the people who, the people who thrive are the people who, who are more extreme, who, who, who are more disruptive, who are more, who more lend themselves to the Trump. ethos of, of of we got to break something every day. All right.

So there's one, final point I wanted to, to talk to you about. And that is the sending in or the not sending in, which was the latest, update on sending in troops to San Francisco. So this was something that Trump has been threatening. Marc Benioff, the CEO and founder of Salesforce, had pleaded for Trump to do, had said, yes, please send in troops. You know, and his hypocrisy was pointed out by Ron.

Conway, the VC investor who resigned from the board of Salesforce. and pointed out that Marc Benioff, in fact, lives and votes in Hawaii. But in fact, apparently Mark Zuckerberg had reached out. and said to Donald Trump, please don't send in troops to San Francisco. It's not going to be helpful. Donald Trump had spoken to Daniel Lurie, the new mayor of San Francisco, who appears to be introducing all sorts of schemes which are improving. Certainly the center of San Francisco.

Last time I was there, it was notably improved on people. who live and work in the city are saying, it's so much better than it was. And so Donald Trump said, okay, I'm not going to send in troops. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, I think it's, you know, like in so much around Donald Trump, it's it's it's obvious, you know, the billionaires called him up and he likes billionaires. He even listens to billionaires. And likes to please billionaires.

So I mean, we're just we're just in this, you know, in a, in a world in so much in the, in the Trump. administration has been oriented to pleasing billionaires, especially tech billionaires who flatter him. And that and, and this was a moment in which they, you know, they, they, they called in, they, they monetize their flattery, I guess you might say.

They monetized their flattery and justice. Stephen Miller prostrate himself before Trump, so Trump prostrate himself before the tech billionaires. There you go. Michael will be back on Tuesday with more inside Trump's head. Wait a minute. So I you know, this this suit against Melania Trump. has generated a lot of a lot of press. And but one of the things and one of the first pieces of press. that it generated, actually came.

from, from the entertainment site TMZ. And, and it was, I would say. this not only not only off, but staggeringly off, it kind of had invented a whole, a whole narrative about me that, that I didn't recognize, including including a book that I was in the middle. of writing and, and the title for this book, I mean, was a book that I was right.

It's writing a book about Melania, which I have no interest in doing, had never occurred to me to do and would never do, but complete, complete with a title and a subtitle. And then this this went out. It was, you know, propagated throughout throughout the, I mean, the internet. So anyway, we called TMZ on it and, and this turns out to be. an entirely a written story, which TMZ immediately.

apologized for and corrected and, and all that. But then having gone out and now that story has been picked up. by actual human reporters who have just cribbed from that phony story. So in this this is just my first, glaring encounter with, with, and personal encounter with I news. This must go on then. I'm assuming all of the time I just a pure invention.

And this is not. This is not bias or it's not. It's not anything else that we've that we've said is, is a problem with with with news. It's not fake news as in a bias. It's just literally fake news. It's just a just, a which no one is responsible for. Well, and what was also strange about the story, which I read and I was like, what? Michael's been writing a book about Melania, and he didn't tell me. People in my family said, how come?

How come we don't know that you're writing this book? I was like, But it also took the title of a book, the Art of Her Deal, which is a book that already exists about Melania by the author Nina Birley. So it was a sort of weird mishmash of, yes, they understood you were an author. Yes. They understood you were suing Melania. Yes, they understood there was a book about Melania, nothing to do with you, but they sort of put the the two together. and it created this third monster like story. Totally. So, so it's it's just sad, you know?

And no one is at fault here. No one is trying to trying to, you know, get me nobody is trying to what. Whatever. It's just I in the invention of reality. It's AI and the invention of reality. Well, also, I thought you were going to go somewhere else, which is? You've launched a Substack? Yes, I have launched a Substack. So you want to tell people about it? Oh, thank. Thank you Janet. Well, it's a it's, it is more Trump and more Epstein.

Epstein, Epstein. And in, in longer versions, more daily versions and and yes, I'd love to have everybody, everybody come over everybody. Everybody join me. It's it's, on another, another chapter. I also think that might be the first time we've got through an entire episode. of Inside Trump's Head without mentioning Jeffrey Epstein,

but we are going to be mentioning him when we get together. for our first live event at the Museum of the City of New York. So it's MK, ny.org. You can buy tickets and come with questions. It will be the day after the New York. mayoral election, but we'll be talking about Donald Trump. We'll be talking about Stephen Miller. We'll be talking about all of it. But come with questions. Come with your friends. Come for a group outing planner dinner afterwards. We're kicking off at 630. We'll be through by eight. By which point you will definitely need a cocktail.

And there are plenty of bars around the Museum of the City of New York. Yeah, and anything you want to know about about that I can answer about Jeffrey. Epstein there. I'm. I'm delighted to answer. And and Melania. Just ask. Just ask. So, don't forget November the 5th, the date for your diaries. If you're in the Tri-State area or if you feel like flying in, to support. us for our first actual physical.

manifestation of inside Trump's head. Thank you for joining us. If you have been, don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. You can subscribe to Michael's Substack, which is called howl. Based on the Allen Ginsberg, poem, I'm assuming. But. And my last name. Oh, wolves howl. I never even thought of that howling at the moon, Michael. Howling at the moon. There is the Allen Ginsberg poem because Allen Ginsberg is from Paterson, new Jersey, where I am, where I am from.

Of course he is. What what happened in Paterson, new Jersey? It produced you produced Allen Ginsberg, it produced, William Carlos Williams, Esther Williams. Yes. Alexander Hamilton. Hurricane Carter. Hurricane Carter. I don't even know who Hurricane Carter is. He sounds like a rapper. Was he a boxer? He was a boxer. Famous Bob Dylan song. Okay. All right, well, that one passed me by. But don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a comment.

And, share the show, the podcast. with your friends, share it with colleagues at work. if you need something to discuss with them. You know those weird people that you have nothing in common with. you can share this podcast and then say, what do you think of these strange people? The woman with the white hair and the man who's got no hair at all? If you click the link in the description. of this podcast below, you can buy tickets. And somewhere in this you can also. press something and join.

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