Truth of Trump’s Wild Sleepless Nights Exposed | The Daily Beast Podcast

We discovered that there were only five days in April. when the when the president did not post on Truth Social. Between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m., 80% of nights when he could be sleeping, he's posting. He is so regularly posting at times like 2:45 a.m., which, you know, I think everybody knows nothing good happens at 2:45 a.m., 1 a.m., 12:30 a.m.. There's no way that he's having any healthy sleep. He is clearly sleep deprived.

When did he catch up on the sleep deprivation? We do not know. And we all know it's bad for your brain. But I enjoy the cold. This is the Daily Beast podcast. And what a week. We have an incredible story for you about how little the president sleeps. Our correspondent, Josh Philo has been tracking his truth. social posts, and it's very clear that the president is up frequently. during the night, agitated and panicked and fearful.

It seems, from the truth socials he's sending out, he's managed. to break the polls. We had the disastrous white House correspondents. We had the select committee hearings for Pete, which showed him massively on the defense. And of course, we have the very strange, ambiguous situations surrounding the war in Iran. Who better to get into this with than our very own Hugh Doherty,

the Daily Beast executive editor, who was actually, amazingly, in the room. next to the alleged shooter at the Washington Hilton last weekend. But before we get into it and before we get Hughes. total breakdown of the crazy of the week, just a request that you smash. the subscription button wherever you're listening or watching this podcast. We are independent media, increasingly rare these days, and we really appreciate your support.

We're almost at 700,000 subscribers on YouTube, which is amazing. given that we really only started podcasting in earnest about a year ago. We're thrilled with your support. And also, don't forget to leave us comments. You, I'm sure, have all sorts of reactions to the conversation we're having. We love to know what your reactions are, and I answer as many as I can. and I read as many as I can. But let's get into it. No more of me. Let's hear what Hughes got to say.

Hugh Doherty. Hugh Doherty, tell. me about this crazy, crazy story. we have exclusively by our correspondent Josh Philo, which really reveals something very concerning about the president. I thank you, Joanna. It is an extraordinary, extraordinary piece of work. Josh, firewall, a brilliant reporter, counted up.

all the times that Donald Trump posted on Truth Social in April. And then he looked at when he was posting, and we looked at he looked between the hours of 9 p.m. and 6 a.m., and we discovered that there were only five days in April. when the when the president did not post on Truth Social between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. and that means that's your opportunity for proper sleep. This is the president is not sleeping.

And 80% of nights when he could be sleeping, he's posting. So I think. it's probably fair to say at this point that Donald Trump is sleep disordered. He doesn't appear. I mean, the diagram that we have of this, this information about him sleeping is really alarming. It suggests that the longest time he seems to sleep is about three hours. And the frenzied nature of the posting suggests.

he is having anxiety in the middle of the night. Obviously there's a lot going on and we'll get into that in in this podcast. I mean, we're going to talk about the war. We're going to talk about Pete Hegseth. We're going to talk about the crazy meltdown that Scott Jennings had on CNN. We're going to talk about the poll machine breaking because the polls are so low. But this is really, I think, extremely concerning.

about the mental health of the president. Right. I mean, first of all, obviously he's 79, which, you know, we know well, and we document daily on The Daily Beast. But what this shows is that he is so regularly. posting at times like 2:45 a.m., which, you know, I think everybody knows. nothing good happens at 2:45 a.m., 1 a.m., 12:30 a.m. I there's one day in which he posted.

18 times between midnight and 245, so there's no way that he's having any healthy sleep. He's clearly sleep deprived. He himself has said that he thrives on very little sleep. But, you know, as a disclaimer, I'm not a doctor and I don't believe on on television. But there's obviously, you know, we all know. if you don't get enough sleep, that's bad. And usually people catch up at the weekends.

In fact, there was only one weekend. day, which was the first Saturday in April, in which Donald Trump did not post fanatically between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. on a weekend day, so. Or a weekend night. So we when did you know? When did he catch up in the sleep deprivation? We don't know. And we all know it's bad for your brain. Well, I think we do know when it catches up on his sleep. because he meetings in the middle of the day.

I mean, he falls asleep cabinet meetings. I mean, if this was a teenager and you were the parent, you would be. freaking out that your teenager was posting in the middle of the night. You would know they were not posting things. Now, I know the aging brain is different from the growing brain, but nonetheless it seems extremely concerning. And what I think is suggests is, as we just talked about, extreme anxiety. about issues, a lack of feeling.

that one is understood, a determination to insist. upon one's own point of view and and putting it out there. And the interesting thing is, who does he think is paying attention? At 245 in the morning, his poor team look exhausted. I couldn't help thinking how absolutely shattered. Marco Rubio looked at the state dinner. He looked absolutely wiped out. I think we saw Pete Hegseth in the hearings looking completely.

agitated because these guys all know they're under pressure. They're working for someone who doesn't appear to have a sense of logic. So it's impossible to try and please someone who's so quixotic. And this work by Josh Filo. really suggests that something alarming going on. What are we doing to. Are we sending it to any doctors? How can we have this analyzed for more?

Well, for more understanding of what's going on. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, having been reporting this out and analyzing it. for the numbers ourselves and the numbers are. I mean, I was going to say off the charts, but I don't believe there are actual. charts for Truth Social because obviously he's the only person on it. But, you know, it's amazing. when you see him posting how few likes. It's sort of like 1.7 K likes, which compared to any other social platform.

But of course, the reason Truth Social gets attention. is because he's the president. and then other people are paying attention and amplify it on different platforms. But Truth Social itself really has very little traction, it seems. Yes. I just cynically would say I don't know anybody that's on it. who's likely to be giving a like all the people I know that are on it, including many of our newsroom, are on it to see his. We've actually got quite a good metric that I think puts this in focus. Trump has always been obsessively posting.

on what used to be on Twitter in his first administration, called X. So April 2018, comparable time. In his first term, he posted 250 times on on Twitter. And at the time we all thought, and everybody remembers, oh my God, this president is unhinged on Twitter. I can't believe he posts that much. Anyway, we should all have reindeer selves in because this April. it wasn't 250 times, it was 565 times on Truth Social.

That's 18 times a day. And of those, one third were in. those was witching hours. I guess we hours we are going to see from my native country. the we are of Scotland, those who do not know the wee hours. and you know first of all disturbing but also, you know, something that we we are reporting on it. We're going to this. You'll be able to see this story.

You are able to see the story in The Daily Beast right now on Sunday. But something that we, you know, we believe should be of interest, at the very least to doctors and also to Democrats, of course, who are already questioning his health and his cognition. Well, it's also. interesting that Janet Mills, who has been a very popular governor. in Maine and was hoping to challenge Susan Collins, the Republican.

for the Senate seat in Maine, has in fact stood down from her race. She would have been 80 when she went into the Senate. And I think there is a general realization. now, even though she was the chosen candidate of Chuck Schumer, the leader of the Democrats in the Senate, that she is, she is too old for this. She couldn't get the finances to really challenge. Graham Plattner, who's come up from from apparently.

No way. He's an oyster fisherman from Maine who's actually created. a very good campaign against a. But clearly, there's a realization that 80, which Donald Trump will be in. June, is too old to be running the country. We saw it with the previous president, but. this frantic posting in the middle of the night. feels like a new level of, frankly, in balance. Yes, there's no doubt. I mean, obviously he nicknamed Joe Biden Sleepy Joel.

I don't quite know if sleepless Dawn is going to catch on. because, you know, who wants to sleep was president. But it's it's really it's really concerning. Other world leaders have spoken about the need for sleep, of all things. George W Bush was very much an early to bed man. You know, Margaret Thatcher, prime minister, from both of our both of our native land and our past.

survived. It was said on 3 to 4 hours sleep. But just to point out, she was significantly younger and. her term in office ended. As you wrote in a brilliant Substack, Joanna and fellow catastrophically. And there are people who have suggested that that was in some way related to, you know, her. She became out of touch and out of, you know, out of support, in part because she wasn't. really trying healthily to engage with her job.

Well, and I think there is so much around health, sleep, and I refer everybody to that brilliant book by Matthew Walker, the scientist at Berkeley University called Why We Sleep, which suggests. that actually sleeplessness and sleep disorder is often. a symptom of dementia to unfold at a later date. Because what's going on when you sleep is the memory is being sort of washed,

and it actually creates a much healthier brain to have sleep. There is a purpose to sleep. Jeff Bezos talks about sometimes needing nine hours. Arianna Huffington, of course, has led a whole movement around. this, urging business people to take sleep seriously and saying, it's. not a macho thing to say, oh, I only sleep 4 hours or 5 hours, am I? Actually, that's not a good thing for your decision making. You need to be able to sleep well, and it has to be said.

that Donald Trump's decision making right now feels erratic. Yes, there's so many questions this week over. Not just this week, obviously, but I think this week had been very in forecast. about his decision making and the erratic nature of what he does appears, it appears most obviously in, well, I was going to say the war, but apparently it's been terminated and is therefore not a war.

So I don't know, quite know what one calls the terminated war, but the war, the war in Iran and this bizarre blockade. aftermath is all about erratic decision making, all about erratic decision. making and not allowing anybody else into that process. So Congress, which in fact, the 60 days is up. where Congress is supposed to now way in. with whether or not they want to continue with the war.

Pete has said now. that there's a sort of what did you call it, termination? Well, so, yes, exactly. As you were just saying, they've said legally this war was terminated by the cease fire. and therefore the 60 days don't count. Now, you know, body will be surprised. to learn that, that the very least got a raised eyebrow. And Tim Kaine, the Virginia senator, who of course, has Democrat. immediately said to Pete, as he testified to this effect,

that the statute simply doesn't read that way. And I think I would probably pick the word of Tim Kaine over. Pete Hegseth on this, simply because Tim Kaine has been pushing. for a vote on the war powers. and has dived into this issue in great depth. So he did not. accept it, and I suspect many other people wouldn't accept it. But this this is kind of the you know, this is just one of the aspects of how this war has gone wrong.

Because, you know, why are we at war? Well, the various reasons we do know there's been you know, there's been. lots of justifications, different justifications, and what's actually happening in the. what I was going to say was the Strait of Hormuz. But just to go back to sleep was one of his posts in the middle of the night, renamed it the Strait of Trump. So, what's going on there again? Are we having talks? Are we not having talks? Who's deciding on talks?

It's it's an incredible lack of clear decisions. I mean, this is so extraordinary. Can you imagine working for Donald Trump? And every morning you have to wake up and see what he's. truth social overnight and then react to it. I mean, this is such a relatable story for anybody who's got a boss. who's slightly erratic or who's got some issues or whatever the idea. I mean, I actually had a boss once who used to text me drunk late at night. The text was somewhat incomprehensible, but there was always enough in there.

to make me think, oh goodness, I need to do this. And then when I would contact them the following morning, there was no memory of them having sent the text at all. And so I wonder if he posts these things, and then it's almost as if he's got them out of his system, or. if he remembers them, or if he keeps looking at them. and reminding himself what what he's what he's truth. Social.

But it's very concerning. It's very concerning. And we urge everybody to look at Josh's piece. We've put a chart out there. so you can see the nights he didn't appear to sleep at all. There are certain nights when he barely got more than 90 minutes shut eye. And it's truly concerning in the man who's the leader of the free world. It is. Can I just set people's minds at rest, by the way? Because obviously people are watching this. Joanna is my boss and I have no, no, I was nodding when you said it was relatable.

Joanna, that was not you. Absolutely not you. I just hope that I am also a boss of people in a much. smaller capacity than Joanna. I'm hoping they're not finding that relatable. So I'm, you know, I hope I'm innocent, but Joanna is absolutely innocent. For those who are just wondering, well, I was just going to say I don't remember if I send any. So I actually think I could use a bit more sleep at the moment, but. So listen, Hugh, the other thing that is so interesting. this week is that not only has Donald Trump had many,

many broken nights, but he's also broken the mechanism. by which the polls, the polls are collected. His polls are so low. Tell me, tell me this is a story that it would be impossible to make this up. So there is a poster. So many stories are about Donald Trump, right? I mean, you know, which one, which ones would you have made up anyway? There's a pollster.

I'm just going to. make sure I get this name right, because polling companies have, you know, specific and complicated names and some concerns remarkably similar. But pollster out there called G. Elliott Morris, and he does a, a regular tracking poll. And it's well regarded because he takes the month to do it. And it's not a hair trigger. It's it's seen as a, you know, sort of a comprehensive.

look at people's feelings about how the Trump administration. and obviously previously Biden administration, but how the Trump administration is doing on a series of key issues. It's called strength in numbers and it's by Vera site. So it tracks, you know, an overall rating, how he's doing on health. care, on deportations, deportations and immigration, which are issues. that go in different directions on trade, on civil rights and in democracy.

And in each of those, it's gone down and down and down. But there is one issue that's broken his graph. It's the issue of inflation. The precipitous fall of it is so bad that he had to tack on extra. negative numbers because it was so low. Previously, his graph only went down to -30. No, it has to go down to -40.

And as you'll be able to see, it's so precipitous and fall. that he's going to have to he's going to have to do it again. His words. Jill Morris said Trump literally broke. the scale of this graph on my data portal. He basically had to reprogram his data system. It's it's he has never seen it before. I mean, I know Trump is always saying like you've never seen before. So he might see this as a positive, you know.

Right. No one seen it. I think like it before. Never before, never before. It's never been done before. And not surprisingly, this is because inflation won't go away. The sudden plunge started in the middle. of March, two weeks after the war. No terminated, I should say. War on Iran began, and it has not stopped since. And he's down now at -40.3. And anybody that has seen one of those ski jumps or something,

you know, it would say, oh my goodness, it's only going lower. I think there's a point at which it literally cannot go any lower, which is when everybody in the country disapproves. But, you know, still a way to fall. And, and it's interesting that it's on inflation. Is there an indication of what people are thinking about the war? He. he does not he does not pull on this. But many other polls are available in this. And one poll to D. has or I should say taken over the last week.

So you know, obviously published as we speak has found. that this was approval or disapproval. is at the same level after eight weeks. as that of Vietnam was after three years. And of course, three years into Vietnam was the bloodiest loss of life, the peak of deaths of conscripted or drafted young Americans.

And while tragically, there has been a loss of American life in the Gulf. And, you know, those those deserve to be honored and remembered. clearly not in the same scale at all, but that level of disapproval up in 63%. disapproval is the same as it took three years of Vietnam. So a really I mean, there's no way to say that this is a popular war. Well, also, people are. really feeling it at the gas stations. Exactly.

I mean, gas in California now are $8 a gallon, which just seems incredible. $8 IT dollars. We have nationally passed the $4.34 as the national average. And to reach that average, of course you go to you know, you go to California in one hand. And traditionally southern, southern areas, including Mississippi, Louisiana, tend to be the cheapest, 430 and there are every indication from people like GasBuddy.

and the IAEA that 450. is maybe a week away, maybe. And that puts $5 in range and that, you know, no analyst. And with various polling and analysis this week, Sabato is Sabato saboteurs. crystal ball which is easier to easier easier to read than it is to say. But sabotage crystal ball suggest that when you hit a $5. a gallon fuel price, there actually isn't a parallel.

for the disapproval ratings that is likely to appear, and the knock. on effect of that in November is catastrophic. And one final number on that, the prediction market, Poly Market, has now moved to 80% chance that the Democrats take the Senate. And wow, you could have bought at something like 10%. So I'm not, by the way, I'm not an advocate for gambling,

but I think it's an obvious indicator of where we are moving. Wow. So how did. Pete Hegseth appearing in the select committee hearings this week? How did that in any way influence people's opinion of the war, do you think do. people feel that he's got a bead on it, or do they think this is a man who. ran two veterans organizations, both of which ended badly amid.

accusations and recriminations of drunkenness. and of disorganization and financial issues? All of which I'm sure Hegseth has denied, of course. But as he's sitting there. looking for $1.45. trillion to fund the Pentagon, how much is he giving Donald Trump a bounce, and how much do you think he is a disadvantage to Donald Trump?

I'm very confident that there were no signs of any bounces. in any polls after Pete had testified first to the House and then to the Senate. And there were, you know, I know, Joanna, you had a fantastic conversation with Representative Jason Crew of Colorado, whose questioning of him went viral, very understandably. Other other representatives and senators said questioning went viral as well.

And all of them were Democrats. No Republican went viral for their support of the war. It was very, very clear that Hegseth. testimony was not helpful and was quite possibly harmful. And you just mentioned the extraordinary budget that they're looking for. And one of the key things he said, or he was asked, what is the cost of the war? And he, he, he he testified that it was $25 billion. Now that I mean, that's an extraordinary amount of money.

by almost any measure, except that it was instantly clear. that there could be no way that it was that cheap. There are already sources within the defense world have estimated. it's probably 50 billion, probably, and that the amount of ordnance that has been used up. is going to take years, literally years to refill. So the 1.45 trillion is actually.

about replenishing the supply of missiles and drones and planes. You know, the United States lost planes, and that helps us attempt to minimize. this at $25 billion is again, going to come in, is going to bite back. because that amount of money has to go somewhere. And it turns out it's basically gone. I really recommend anybody. This sounds like we're we're.

singing our own book here, but. Jason Crowe was such an interesting person to interview, and he was fresh from having filleted Pete Hegseth as if he were a chef. And Pete was a piece of mackerel, and he was flat on the slab, and Jason Crow just lifted up the tail and slashed him. with incredible precision on everything that he asked him. It was a deeply worrying conversation, and Seth himself.

looked more and more agitated by the line of questioning. and really couldn't answer and just kept going on the attack. But Jason Crow then talked to me about his thesis of how. they wanted to get Pete. Hegseth out of such an important job, and like many Congressman. Jason Crow served, he did three tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. and like, who served and feels very anxious about being in there.

with the safety of American troops as his responsibility. Yeah. And. as you say, many of those. particular members of the House have served. actively in the recent endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they were extraordinarily personally concerned. And among those notably was Sarah Jacobs, who represents the whole.

who represents district in Southern California. That is the home to many of the Marines. who are who are currently in, in, in. I was going to say in action, but in deployment in the Middle East. And she had some very, very biting questions. about the ability of hexes to come to, to help and support those people. And she also had a question about the mental fitness of the president. and whether Pete Hegseth would obey an illegal, an illegal order.

So it was really extraordinary to see it. And to go back to your original question, this does not help Donald Trump at all. and raises the question of how long he has got. And it's really interesting to think how the select committee. hearings, in the end, did for Kristi Noem. They did for Pam Bondi, RFK junior, I think did horribly in some of his. He had, I think, seven committee hearings and just looked terrible.

He was stuffing a tobacco pouch up his lip. He just looked like he couldn't believe he was there. He was super aggressive, and I don't think that this is playing. well with the public. This is not making people feel confident. It makes them look makes the secretary's. in the in the hot seat look very defensive. I mean, Pam Bondi going after people saying, I am not responding to your theatrics, but really the theatrics are coming.

from the cabinet secretaries who are performing for an audience of one, as Michael Wolff is always saying, an audience of one Donald Trump. and these select committees are not helping them. And if I were the Democrats, I would be holding them every single day. Yes, it's interesting that just go back to one of the things you mentioned. about Graham Plattner up in Maine, who is also, by the way, served. And, you know, there's a controversial elements to that. about about the nature of, of after service tattoos, all sorts of things.

But he was part of the war, you know, the endless wars. But one of the things that he has said is if he is elected, he will be using the power of subpoena to drag those secretaries. in front of Congress day after day after day after day. And he says primarily to stop them doing things because of the their. they can't do bad things. But of course, that will simply highlight the defensiveness and the weakness.

And for those people, you know, this audience of one problem. when they are in front of a Democratic senator. or member or a member of the House, they're performing for Donald Trump. But this is a man who's obsessed by people working week. And the more that you are on the defensive and performing the defensive, he. also hates that. So. I think, you know, the Democrats. Jason Cruz tactics are setting up a real tactical trap here.

There's a whole group of Marines as well. who are either in Congress or running. Graham Platner, Jake Orkin class and Seth Moulton on the northeast, Elissa Slotkin, Jason Crow, as we've mentioned, very interesting bunch of young Congress people with a lot of energy, and many of them seem to be bringing a new layer. of confidence and precision to the Democratic Party.

Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt about that, that it's fairly clear that. that these are people who are very concerned. about the welfare of Americans in a theater of war, but. who are also really, really training themselves tactically. and have a strategy here that puts the Republican Party. and the MAGA officials in a very, very difficult spot of defending. Let's just be honest about this. What turns out in the court of public opinion to be the indefensible.

So another. person who's always defending Donald Trump and frequently what we would think of. as the indefensible, is a character that is very big. on the media scene at this point that we love to write about. Scott Jennings Scott Jennings is Scott Jennings is. For those of you who don't watch, CNN is a regular character. He's off and on Abby Phillips's show in the evening.

I've come across him a few times there, and this week he. he really seemed like he'd had enough, actually, I'm. Yeah. Well, where do we begin? So as you as you say, Johanna Scott Jennings has become. an incredibly. present character. I think I would say not just for CNN viewers, for Daily Beast. readers, for I think, you know, for a lot of people. And but more importantly, in this context, just to set up, he's become.

actually quite a powerful figure because he goes on CNN, he defends Donald Trump to the hilt. And that's kind of ironic, because previously he was a top aide. to Mitch McConnell and was, in fact, very publicly skeptical. of Donald Trump and disgusted with him after January the 6th. But he's a Damascene conversion which has given him. a big presence in the manga movement.

He goes, he does speeches, he is cheered, applauded because what does he do? He brings it to the libs. He really owns the libs on television. And I would say it's kind of mostly true, right? He's a bulldozer. He demolishes people on debate. That all went off the rails spectacularly on Thursday night. in the first opening segment of Abby Phillips show, and. I believe we can actually play some of it. No.

Any political concession. So you can't name one. So so here's what we're doing. No political concessions. When you get up at past your bedtime, you get hyper. Here's the deal. We we now you're making condescending remarks because you can't defend. the fact that this war is not going your way. Wait one more time. Not going in one political concession, one political concession. As you can see that, Joanna, what he says. is get your effing finger out of my face. And he's seeing it to Adam Moakler, who is 23.

That is less than half his age. Scott Jennings is 48. He is a father of four. And he attempted, first of all, to put down this, this young activist Democrat by saying, you get hyper when it's past your bedtime. But Adam Moakler, who appears on the Midas Touch Network, who are, you know, do great work and I know you've been on with them, kept and persisted.

And he kept asking a really significant question, which ties back to a lot of what we've been seeing. What political concession has Donald Trump. secured from Iran after these weeks of war? And he just kept persisting and asking it. And that is when Scott Jennings absolutely lost it, as we have just seen. So a really very public blow up. So the other interesting thing about Scott Jennings is because he's so personable. and I think it's I don't know if he's been on one of the weight loss drugs,

but he's certainly lost weight since really since Donald Trump one. And, and he's become so omnipresent. on television is people are now calling on. Scott Jennings to run and saying, oh, Scott, Scott, Scott. Scott should run for Senate. Scott should run for Congress. I think some people are even saying Scott should run for president. Do you think it's possible that Scott Jennings could be selected for something? Oh, I think that's totally possible.

He has made a lot of money. Let's just be honest about this out of bringing it to the libs. He has a syndicated show on the Salem Radio Network, which is a conservative network which puts him in the cars and in the ears. of, you know, a very large audience that is the Republican base. There's no doubt that he has raised his profile in a way. that, you know, other people have been benefited from here before. Go in the media, go and fight and bring energy.

And yeah, he's you know, he's a presentable person, right? For, as I said, 48 year old father of four lives in Kentucky. He he has, as you see, become thinner. Perhaps he's just on TV so much he just never gets near his dinner. But he has a lot of of the things. that would make a good candidate in the modern world. So there's no doubt that's got to be in his mind. The question is finger pointing and f wording at a 23 year old.

Is that a good thing or not? Well, it's interesting in terms of him coming from Kentucky, because it makes you think of the fight in Texas between. John Cornyn, who's been a senator for four terms. now being challenged by the much, much noisier, Ken Paxton, who is the attorney general of Texas, got impeached, I think, as internee attorney general,

very controversial figure. But because he makes a lot of noise, people are aware of him. and what he's done. And John Cornyn actually is supported by George W Bush. I mean, he's pretty right wing as Republicans go, but he's prepared to work across the aisle with the Democrats. He's known to be conciliatory, to look for common ground. And he is now really suffering from Ken Paxton coming after him. It's gone to what's it called, not a playoff.

It's gone to a runoff at the end of this month. And Donald Trump has yet to support either candidate. I mean, I think he feels more constitutionally simpatico. with Ken Paxton. But Ken Paxton might lose. And there's I think there was 3% in it as they were competing. at the last time round in the first round. So we'll see what happens, not in the playoffs, but in the runoffs at the end of the at the end of the month.

But it is interesting that there is a very much a different. kind of Republican candidate now. And Scott Jennings might well fit that bill if people want to continue. with these rowdy, sort of troublemaking, noisy candidates. Yeah. And I should say, actually, Scott Jennings literally. ruled out running for the Senate in Kentucky. Not because he said he didn't see. That's absurd. Why would I do that? He just said, no, no, I'm very happy doing what I do.

And that's kind of the talk. you usually hear from people that really are quite interested in something. And it clearly for him, he thought maybe this wasn't the right moment, but you would not rule out in the future. Having said that, Democrats now know how to push his buttons. If he does end up running and he gets into debate again. So at the very least, this is a very helpful real for anybody. prepping a run against Scott Jennings, someone who loses his temper occasionally.

I've always I've sometimes run into him backstage at CNN and he's. always been very pleasant, but I know he doesn't like us writing about him. He was very sensitive at the beginning. I think he's probably gotten a bit more used to it now. Hugh, this time last week I had just taken a flight to the UK. I was hoping to be your plus one at the white House Correspondents Dinner, but I wasn't able to make it this year. You had just probably unpacked your tuxedo and were getting ready.

for a night of parties in DC before the big annual dinner, which is a celebration of the First Amendment. Reflections. A week on from what turned out to be a crazy, unpredictable evening. Well, first, let me just make a correction. And I know in the comments people hate when men correct women. But Joanna, I was your one.

Just the slightest bit clear about that. Yeah. It was. It was a very crazy dinner. I took the train down on the Friday, and one thing I should say. is that many people listening. and watching are going to say, why were you even there? And I just want to say, we put a lot of thought into our presence there. And we decided after a lot of debate. and a lot of thought, that it was the right thing to do to go. And I don't want to plug myself too much. But if you go, we actually with the live stream on Thursday,

which is obviously available on the YouTube. YouTube channel, and I addressed this at the end. and explained our thinking at length. And I'm more than happy for people to come at me, comment, whatever. Anyway, on that Friday I went down, I checked in, I went up to my room. I went to room 1 or 2, three, five and I know that name just because it becomes significant. I went to parties. I was it's one of the great privileges and, you know, part of the weekend that you go and meet people from all sorts.

of different outlets and organizations and bodies. that are going to be useful for your reporting in the future. I went to a party hosted by YouTube, who obviously. we're coming to many of you on YouTube, so we wanted to show our support for them. I went to a party at the British Embassy, which is a great privilege. It's one of the most incredible buildings in Washington. And when you walk in, as Joanna, you know very well, because you've been there. far more than me as somebody that the royal family have honored,

you could walk in and there is a portrait of all people, King George the Third. So I went to these things. I on the Saturday I was going to be accompanied. by our brilliant DC team, David Gardner, Farrah Thomson and Sarah Weiss, and by our global editorial director who came in your stage, Joanna. Nicole Haynes managed to make it all the way from London and, you know, went downstairs. Well, I tied my bow tie. I'd just like to say it was a real bow tie.

Unlike Cash Patel's and tied my bow tie. went downstairs and eventually went into this ballroom. And you've. Everybody has seen what? You know what happened? Everybody has seen the the chaos, the incredible scenes of Swat team. rushing onto the stage of Cheryl Hines being left. behind as junior was grabbed. I saw a lot of the cabinet and other senior officials go by like. ten feet from from our daily beast table hexes.

He did not look like a strong man, I have to say. He looked, to be honest, pretty shaken up. I saw Cash Patel and again he did not look that great. He was when I saw him. He was taking his phone out of his pocket and doing like that. And, you know, like we all do that, right? But this is the director of the FBI, Judge Jeanine, as she is nicknamed, Jeanine Pirro, the US attorney for the. for for the District of Columbia, rushed past in a in a ball gown.

It's really this incredible scene. It was very chaotic. It was very unclear of what was happening. And. it was it was a reflection, I think, of. how even if you are the most powerful man in the world, you can't control things. You can't be, you know, the the supreme power. Things happen and they they cause downstream effects and they cause chaos. And they are beyond Donald Trump's.

control particularly. And of course, you mentioned the room number because. Well, because it turned out that in fact, the. the alleged would be assassin, certainly the attempted. shooter was next door. I went up after me and my colleagues. We were gathered together. We were reporting, we were filing, we were on our phones. We were in our, you know, we were on devices.

And eventually my phone was beginning to run out of power. I went upstairs, I back to my room and just to make the scene slightly, this is a the Washington Hilton is a huge hotel and loads of people have been. It's a sort of place at school parties go they've model United Nations. There are sales conferences, huge hotel. I was in the very top floor at the very end of a corridor. And as you know, when you get to a hotel, you go, oh my God, I'm so far from the I'm so far from the elevator. So those corridors are really long in that hotel. They are and they're dark.

They're available on the dark and they're kind of sinuous as well. So I went along and I turned on the last curve. and my Keough, and there was a health. uniformed Hilton security guard who said, oh, I'm sorry, sir. You can't come any further. I was like I said, oh, I just need I just need to get to my room. It's right there. And there was an officer in front of it and I said, just, I just need to get my phone charger, to be honest with you, thinking, you know, sure, they're going to let me in.

And he said, oh, well, you know, just come back in 20 minutes, you know, it's for your own protection. Okay. And I thought at that moment. that somebody that they protect was in one of those rooms because John, as you know, we've both stayed there before, these other dinners, people, book. rooms, people who hold cabinet rank book rooms just so they can get changed. So that's what I thought. Oh, how wonderful it is. But, you know, this has been an odd night. It could be anyone, and I'll be fine. So good. Downstairs, we watched Donald Trump's extraordinary.

press conference in the white House briefing room, and about an hour. had gone past and I thought, I really need to get my phone charger. because it was, you know, heading down to zero very rapidly. And I went back up and I didn't get quite as far along the corridor, same Hilton security guard, and there were a lot more police behind, and at least one of them was carrying a tactical helmet. And I said, what's going on? And one thing I should have said was that in that hour, often we were downstairs.

Sources were suggesting to us and to other outlets that it was possible, possible that the shooter called Thomas Allen, had been a guest. at the hotel, and obviously we didn't know. Nobody said this was definitely the case. And when I went upstairs and he said this, the security guard said, oh, I, you know, you can't get your room, sir. And I said, oh. And before there was any further interaction, the detective standing to his.

just behind him to the left, said we were waiting for a judge. This is going to be an FBI crime scene. And at that moment, waiting for a judge means you need a warrant. And I had a flash of realization that this must be the room. that the shooter, the alleged alleged attempted assassin, had taken. And it was just an extraordinary moment, a bit chilling, mostly just really surprising that this guy had been next door.

At that point. I didn't know when he had occupied that room, but thought, oh my God, he was probably sleeping right. next to me is not obviously technically accurate, but that's the thought that goes through your mind. But just through one wall, which was, as I say, incredibly surprising. Well, you think of all the times you check into a hotel. and you give no thought to who's in the room above you, below you, or on either side of you. Well, thank goodness you you were able to write about it.

as effectively as you did, Hugh. And. what a what. an incredibly depressing evening. I mean, it was a gathering of. of journalists and young journalists and of course, the cabinet to. to celebrate the First Amendment. and to understand and acknowledge that the press, the free press, is a vital part of American democracy.

And this was not the right way for the evening to end. Obviously. Do we know if they've rescheduled it? Donald Trump said that he wanted it rescheduled in within 30 days. It's not his dinner. So it's not his his it's not within his power to do that. But I wondered if you've heard of any efforts to reschedule it. Yeah. Well, I'll just point out. 30 days is even longer than. the usual two week period when everything is going to be sorted out. So the white House Correspondents Association is holding.

talks on how where, when it would have another event. Those talks have not so far. offered any, you know, firm booking date. The new secretary for security, Mark Wayne. Mullen, on Friday said he did not believe it would be in the Hilton. That raises a good question of where do you put 2500 people? Because there's actually no other spaces in D.C. that are just quite as large for dinner. There's one thing I want to say, Joanna, if you just one, allow me one. One.

Just brief point as a spoiler to those who are wondering, I never saw Alan, and obviously. I've told the officers who I spoke to that, the other thing I want to say is that everyone who was there. had such an immense sense of gratitude and respect for those officers and agents. who ran towards a man armed, as we've seen in the video, with a shotgun. and also a handgun, which I don't think they could have seen at the time,

who had clearly the intention of causing grave harm. And it's up to the courts to work out exactly the nature of that. But their courage was exemplary. And there are obvious questions that I've written. about the failures of security here. Those were not failures of courage. They were not failures of those officers and agents and the other people. that we were all so grateful to is those who was the hotel workers, because as this happened, they had been serving dinner.

The clatter of plates that you can hear on videos is. because they were just bringing out the main courses, and they went. and they cleaned up that ballroom. and outside where this guy had been. brought to the ground and were shots were fired. And we have the privilege of checking out and they have to be back there every day. So they have an immense my personal, my friends, my colleagues, people, people I don't know who I spoke to in that night just feel so respect. So much gratitude to them. Well, it's be very interesting to see.

if they do figure out where to hold the evening. And I'm sure if they do, obviously security will be high. Perhaps Oz, the Mentalist, who was the entertainment this year. because they decided not to have a comedian, will have some insight into it. Interestingly, they didn't have a comedian last year either. Amber Ruffin was booked to do it and in fact did an interview. on The Daily Beast. And after her interview, the white House Correspondents Association.

decided to uninvited her to to be the comedian. So that's two years in a row. They've not had humor. When I think, actually, humor might be the very thing you need. Maybe what we need. Yeah. To broach the gap between Donald Trump and his cabinet and the press. But, Hugh, it's always good to talk to you. And I look forward to seeing you when I'm back in New York. You're about to go off for a week.

Have a great trip and we will. We'll get back together again when you are back stateside. And I am to not wait. Thank you for Joanna, for having me. You don't forget about us on holiday. And just a final reminder, please press the subscription button. and you can become a BBC member. A BBC tier membership gets you. all sorts of exclusive content and it gets your name read out.

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