Trump Rages About Claim He Killed Epstein: Wolff | The Daily Beast Podcast

If you have the president's attention, you're going to get column inches. I mean, because that means you have actual power. I'm Joanna. Coles, Chief Content Officer of the Daily Beast, you are listening. to or watching the Daily Beast podcast today. We're talking to the Trump biographer for biography is No. Michael Wolff, and will obviously be talking to him. about the continuing Epstein saga that will not leave the president alone.

and wait till you hear what Michael's saying about what he's hearing. from inside the white House about Jeffrey Epstein and how he died. But before we do that, I want to address, oh, by the way, myopic viewers may notice a different backdrop. We've actually moved. to a different studio to expand because we're going to be producing. more podcasts for you. But I wanted to mention another character on the scene, that of Laura Loomer. She's a relatively new character in the court of President Trump.

And this week she claimed, she says, her 16th scalp. Her modus operandi is to find people. in government that she thinks are not loyal to the president. She then points this out, and the people are then. vaporized in their job, or some of them have chosen to resign. It's a, again, a crazy development, and we're going to go into it. with Michael Wolff. So no time to waste. Admire the art in the background as we get into it.

Okay, Michael, so much to discuss, not least, Jeffrey Epstein and the president, but I want to come to that slightly later. in the show because first of all, I want to take several comments. that people have left on our YouTube channel, challenging me and saying that I interrupt you too much. And so I wanted to go straight to the horse's mouth, as it were. And, ask you if you think this is true.

Well, the alternative is that I would go on forever. So, and perhaps that's what they're saying. Let him go on forever. But I would prefer, the better part of valor is. to, Okay, it's to find a pause. And to be fair, I feel. I only try and interrupt you when people who aren't following this story. The Donald Trump story as Myopically as we all might not know. who some of the characters you are referring to, although at this point,

I'm sure people watching this podcast. are actually pretty up to speed on it. And certainly the comments, knowledgeable and knowing. But I'm glad that you've you've swung to my defense. Well, I think it's it's maybe we should establish who's the straight man here. I think it's me. I think it's me. All right. So the first person I really want to unpack with you. in this week's pod is Laura Loomer. I mean, there's even a verb.

Now, to be Loomer. And we've been keeping on the Daily Beast website a list of the people. that she has managed to either get fired or they've or they've resigned. And she seems to be a character. who's somehow come into the overall of the white House. She seems to have a lot of influence with the president, yet. there seems to be resistance from within the white House. Well, I you know, I mean, I'm. not sure we have that quite have the context here.

And because these people kind of slip in and overnight, they seem to become part of the fabric without a clear acknowledgment. of how wacko something truly is. I mean, this is extraordinary. This person, comes for I mean, there's there's no indication. that this person knows anything relevant about anything. And yet she has managed to create a,

a really heavy footprint inside. this, this white House. And why and who and on what basis? And where does she where does she come from? How has she been vetted? Does she have any kind of clearance? Who's in charge? And and the the the answer to who. who is in charge is that the president of the United States is in charge.

In other words, she has one client, the president of the United States. Everybody else, everybody in this was. you know, I saw this throughout the campaign. She's a horror show to everyone else in the Trump circle. She just is there because the president likes her. And I suppose that means he trusts her, although no one else around the president feels the same way.

So it's, it's I mean, let's let's try to try to describe this. that you have you have a person who has who has only managed manage. to enter this ecosystem. because of this direct. I mean, I mean, direct connection to the president of the United States. He and she's he is entertained by her.

He's amused by her. He he, he overrides anybody else's concern. And everybody has concern about her. She's I mean, she's certainly very good at getting press attention. I remember where I may have just interrupted you. Sorry. Sorry, listeners. But she's had I mean, surprisingly, for someone like, like her, she's had a lot of column inches, even in the New York Times.

And I'll say people often. Will let me interrupt you and, Which you do all the time. No one comments. No. You know, you know, I think you get. if you have the president's attention, you're going to get column inches. I mean, because that means you have actual power. or even if there's no no reason to explain why. or no traditional reason to explain why you should have power. I mean, power usually comes because because you've amassed.

influence and power through all through various circles of government. She doesn't have any of this. All she has is the is. this connection, direct connection to Donald Trump. And you've said on previous podcasts that she's become a friend of Natalie. Harp, who has who is one of the key gatekeepers. Yes. So that's how she has been. This has happened. Everybody else has tried to keep her out. I mean, it has been it was certainly a key challenge throughout the campaign.

Keep Laura Loomer out. She managed to get in because she created some kind. of connection with Natalie Harp. Which of many people have realized how do you get to the president? You you get there. True, Natalie, that is probably the most direct route. And she has, having done that, she then secured this this connection.

I, you know, I mean, I understand the president calls her directly. She calls the president. It's she is, she is in like Flynn now I. the and then I have seen other people around the president how they they. they react to her in, in actually, they are afraid of her. I mean, it's almost a physical kind of thing. I go in there, right. You know, you don't want to get you don't want to challenge her.

You don't want to get on the other side of her. Yeah. I was just looking at some of the reporting. I mean, Chris. Cillizza said she's the de facto personnel director at the white House. Now, we've been keeping a tracker. on the Daily Beast website, which we had to update last night. Because I think the total tally of scalps that she's proudly. claiming is now 16. Yeah. I don't know if that would be. I mean, it's some it's something it's something else. actually because he she's not really hiring anybody.

She just sort of goes through and finds. reasons to object to or, or reasons. You might believe that such and such a person is, is less loyal than you have to be. Right? And she seems to go back through people social media posts. I mean, just just reading through some of the people, the. the body count to date, assistant US Attorney Adam Schiff, six aides on.

Trump's, National Security Council, obviously national security, National Security Advisor Mike walls. That seems an inevitability after signal gate, but also the deputy National Security advisor, Alex Wong, the surgeon general nominee, Doctor Jeanette Niche, Nisha Wort, who was praising Covid vaccines, which President Trump. actually with his Operation Warp Speed put into action. And the list goes on.

And she's clearly very proud of it. And she has this loyalty test. You know, you know, the thing this is amusing to Trump. In other words, hiring and firing. He likes it. Well, firing he especially likes, likes to do. And he, he he kind of moves pieces around, like like like on a board. Oh, you know, he he does this thing here. If you can seem like he flicks people, flick them away like, you know, Well, so he says that and just that, is that one of his gestures?

Yes. Flick. And of course, it ties into The Apprentice. And there's a. All of the very few people, there's Trump. acknowledge or understand, as you know, you know, fully dimensional human beings. It doesn't they're they're just they, they just they either. just represent something good or they represent something bad and act.

And that can change in a in the blink of an eye. And and they are, they are, they are components to be moved around, or components to be gotten rid of. So, so all this is and, and they are exercises. of power, exercises of dominance. So this is that, that kind of thing. And, she comes to him. That person is not loyal. Okay. Get rid of them. I mean, you don't even think that's true.

I mean, it does sound like a medieval court where she is. the court jester who then sort of at the end of her dance points, someone and then the president or the medieval king gets rid of them. I mean, it feels it really does feel not only apprentice, but Game of Thrones. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but it is actually even less. These people are have less character than they would on on on on on. Game of Thrones. They're just a name. They're just a, you know, there's there's no there's no relying.

You know, this is a big government. Remember these are most of the people that Trump Trump doesn't know, which is another. reason to fire them because I don't Trump does not know them. So therefore fire them. But but I, you know, I, I can't emphasize enough. the amusement factor, the, the sense of. cruelty partly. which I think that he, he actively cultivates. because the advantage of it is that more people will be afraid of him.

And the more you are afraid of him, the more you will. you will show your loyalty to him. I mean, I think it's been been interesting the last couple of days, you know, with this, the, the emphasis on, you know, lawyers of of Todd Blanch. going down to do the, to go into an interview. Olina Harbor, in new Jersey has been rejected by everyone. and then imposed, whether legally or not, by the, by the white House.

I mean Beauvais. Yes. And I have a funny detail about that, that, that, that Trump has always called him email, As a joke or because he can't pronounce meal. That's a that's a joke. It's a just a more form of contempt. I mean, this is what separates. Trump from from everyone else is, is a sense of. when he is separated and it's superiority, contempt.

You're I'm I'm big your little So how does he express that? And he expresses that in myriad ways, including these, these, content, contemptuous nicknames and then including flicking you away. I mean, this is a kind of a very central, central to his management method. Well, and you feel, inevitably for Laura Loomer that she will also be flicks away.

It's, It's, I mean, a very a very good point. and I can guarantee right now people are plotting to do that. And when that comes, Trump will do it without, without a sentimental. Moment. I mean, the thing I found intriguing about her. was that she was talking about her personal life in an interview. she did with The New York Times, which appeared earlier in July. And she said she told her boyfriend that the president. would always come first in her life, that she, she then told a reporter she'd been an overweight teenager.

So now she's she cannot get fat, she must stay thin. And that whenever she meets the president, she must wear a new outfit because she has to feel her best. She has to feel at a most confident, and that she's going to fake it until she makes it so even though we know. that she's been stopped from working at the white House, I think twice now, she seems very determined. And I think there was an incident where she was trying to get through. the security cordon to get to President Trump at the Lincoln Center recently,

but security and then white House aides kept her away. Yeah. No. And throughout the campaign, there were there were instances like this. of trying to get on the plane and, and having people. be having people in the, in the, the Trump circle forced her off the plane. and then going directly to Trump to get back on the plane. And she's currently in a lawsuit with Bill Maher, who she's suing. because Bill Maher suggested it, that she was actually having a relationship.

with the president. Right. And there and there was a there was a moment of of treason. within the within the, the Trump circle over this, although everyone else has. within the Trump circle has concluded that Trump no longer has such relationships. But he does, you know, it is very important to him. to be surrounded by women and women who look a certain way. Know she's got very much a make a woman look. Yeah. And, and that that is.

satisfying to Trump, I mean, and amusing. and makes him feel like, I suppose like he, he, he wants to feel. I mean, it is. And we've talked about this before, the kind of replacement for. a past past life. So talking about young women, Jeffrey Epstein. still has a stranglehold, it feels, on Donald Trump. This week, he seems particularly irascible, shouted. at Kaitlan Collins, the CNN anchor and white House correspondent,

when she asked him three times about Jeffrey Epstein. We saw him trying to take on Jay Powell. at the end of last week, and we're recording this on a Friday morning. And today's social was full of animus towards Jay Powell. What are you hearing from inside the white House. about how this is still going on? You know. I mean, it's a very from inside the white House. This is a difficult topic. I mean, it is the topic that they do not know how to handle.

Their, their, their response is only to attack if you if you connect. the president to Jeffrey Epstein, then you are going to be subject to attack. There's no, you know, the. there's no real I mean, they are not going to release, release release documents, and they are not going to explain why they are not going to release documents. They are simply going to attack, an attack in the ways that they attack, which are which are, you know, there's,

that's what that's what Trump's the. the Justice Department lawyers who have been his personal lawyers. That's what they're that's what they're they're there to do at this point. I mean, I had a conversation with. yesterday, I had a conversation with someone who talks to Trump. frequently and, and this person had a conversation. with Trump in the last 48, slightly, possibly more hours. And,

I mean, it kind of gave me a chill. I mean, so Trump called. called up this person and said and said, they say I killed Epstein. I didn't have Epstein killed. And then this person said, well, do you think think he was killed? And then Trump said, a lot of people wanted him dead,

that other people wanted him dead. certainly suggests that, that Trump understands. and, and, and is seems to agree. that, that Epstein had. a, you know, was a man who knew too much. Right. Which is part of the MAGA basis conspiracy theory about Jeffrey Epstein. And also there was a video released by I think it was CBS This Week that appears.

to show a shadowy orange figure, mounting some stairs, which is just caught, in very blurry, supposedly security video. from the prison in which Jeffrey Epstein was being held. And we had Julie K Brown on the show earlier this week, who's like you, not a conspiracy theorist, but saying. there are so many anomalies in the prison story.

The video wasn't working. The video they released doesn't even have his cell door on it. It seems completely irrelevant. People were asleep. Nobody was checking on him. He didn't have a cellmate. The more you look into it, the more questions you come away with. Well, I think I think most of the only in the Epstein story. in some sense works backwards. Why are we dwelling on this? And in such a to such an extent? Why is this? Why won't it go away?

Because there's, you know, at the end of the story, there is this there is this mystery, you know, I mean, I don't. I have no idea what happened, but I do know that that the. that the description of how he killed themselves seems utterly implausible. to me and to and to many people. At the same time, the idea that he would be have been murdered. Killed,

I mean, to me seems to require the, the the the silence of, of, you know, probably half a dozen or more assistant U.S. attorneys and an equal number of FBI agents. And I find that implores. Unless he was just killed by someone randomly in jail. because he was there for, you know, sex crimes with underage girls. But we would know that then they would be able to. That that would be that.

That would not be something that that would be easy to deal with. People in jail are killed all of the time. And, and that would be. you would be you would certainly be able to document that. Well, the mystery continues, as we've spoken about many, many times on this podcast, Donald Trump is the master of moving the narrative along. This time, the narrative, the Epstein narrative seems to be stuck. Do you feel the air is going out of this crisis for him,

or do you think it's going to stay at this level? I mean, certainly the MAGA base doesn't seem to be letting it go even Joe. Rogan is talking about it and not in great terms for the president. I mean, I think one of the things about the Epstein story, it has always returned. It keeps coming back. It will. Yeah, I'm sure it will. It will go. It will it will go quieter. But yeah, you know, the fact of the story is that there are questions.

which demand answers and they aren't given. So, and you can, you can. put them out of your mind for, for, for this period. But they never entirely go out. Go out of your mind. You know, and I think. I think, of course, if the, if the, if the house flips, you know, in which is another conversation,

we should certainly begin to have because this is now the that. that race is starting in earnest, especially with this effort to, to, to gerrymander Texas. But if it does flip, well, then this is going to be, you know, then certainly two years of investigations, including. including about about Epstein, which the which Trump is, is rightly terrified. And we've got Glenn Maxwell's appeal in theory coming before the Supreme Court.

in, I think November and the Oversight committee, saying that they want to subpoena her and I think her legal team. saying they're not going to do that until after the case has appeared. at the Supreme Court. Does that sound right? Yeah, I think that sounds right. I mean, I don't I, I don't think she has much of a shot. at this Supreme Court reversal here. Do you think she has a shot at a presidential pardon?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, you know, Todd Blanch went down. to speak to Garland to find out clearly what she knew. And does she have? And, I mean, I don't think you can read that as anything else but a. but the beginnings of a negotiation. And the question was, what does she have to negotiate with? And if she has, if she has something to negotiate with, if she can damage the president of the United States, well,

then I think they'll they'll figure out what to do with that. And I would say, yeah, she gets pardon when what, nine months or whatever. However they however they structure the effective cover up. Well on this I just want to remind people Todd Blanch, the former personal lawyer. to the president who's now number two in the Justice Department, again, an incredible anomaly in terms of how. presidents, you know, appoint justice.

Well, but but go beyond that. They're all his former personal attorneys. You know, the attorney general, Pam Bondi, a personal attorney. Amiel Beauvais, email a personal attorney. Now on the appeals. Court. Yes. Now slated to be to be on the appeals court. with with a trajectory to the Supreme Court. Elena Haba again, a personal attorney, Boris Epstein, who is not even in.

is not employed by the federal government. Does not have a job in, in the executive branch. Nevertheless, overseeing much of what? Of what, of what happens in the Justice Department when much of of. what happens with what Trump wants to happen in the Justice Department. Okay. So we should do a special episode, I think, in the next few weeks about Donald Trump's lawyers. And, of course, he's had much more exposure to other presidents than lawyers.

because he's had so many cases he's fought over the years. I mean, it's so unusual to have a president come into office. with a quiver of personal lawyers. You think. All right, Michael, we will be watching this story with great interest. I know you're in, incredible demand, this week, and you'll be doing lots more media appearances. Good luck. And we will see you next week.

For more on this extraordinary unfolding story. I look forward. Well, I'm. fascinated by Laura Loomer, and I'm very curious to know. how long she lasts in President Trump's circle of influence. And we will obviously keep. you posted about her since we've been recording this podcast, something that Julie K Brown, the investigative reporter from the Miami. Herald that we had on the podcast on Monday, predicted has indeed come to pass.

Glenn Maxwell in jail, sentenced, you will remember. for 20 years for sex trafficking has actually been moved jail. She's moved from the federal jail in Florida to a minimum. security jail in Texas, where she has a sister. And curiously, as our story says in The Daily Beast, which has just broken, she will be a long side. Wait for it, wait for it.

Elizabeth Holmes, the Theranos. fraudster who got sentenced to 11 years, and the former Real Housewives of Salt Lake City star Jen Shah. So she will wake up to a different weekend ahead. I hope you have a good weekend. Don't forget to be a beast or indeed, subscribe. to The Daily Beast for moment by moment updates on. what on earth is going on because it's completely unpredictable. And please join me in applauding.

our producers, Devin Roger Reno, Anna Von Ersan, and our long suffering editor, Jesse Millwood.