Trump Is Most 'Impotent' President In A Lifetime | The Daily Beast Podcast

I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. Last night, the American secretary of state, Marco Rubio, said he didn't know. anything about the Israel attacks on Iran overnight. Donald Trump said maybe he did, especially as it looked like. they'd worked and he was actually claiming credit for it. Who best to unpack this situation for us than David Rothkopf? He's a former Clinton. administration official, and he edited Foreign Policy magazine.

He spends all his time talking to people who really know about. foreign affairs and the complexity of international relations. So let's not waste any more time. It's a serious moment. Let's get straight into it. David Rothkopf is joining us. David Rothkopf. doing an excellent column on stay site. Can you just clear up for us once and for all? Did America actually know that Israel was going to do.

this, was going to bomb nuclear military facilities in Iran? No, I can't clear that up for you because I don't think, anybody, you know, can who wasn't, you know, in the room. Let me tell you what people are saying. Right. The US government last night. said, Marco Rubio said we had nothing to do with this. Please don't hit us. And then Trump overnight started with some true social posts.

in which he said, well, you know, I knew this was coming. and I warned them against it and they could have avoided it. And but it was very kind of soft by this morning when you know, it looked like the strikes that achieved their goals, Trump was like, yeah, this was all part of my four dimensional chess plan, right? And I'm going to take credit for it, and I'm going to own it. And it even went so far as the Israelis saying Trump gave us the green light. and, Axios and the Wall Street.

Journal running stories saying, that, this was an eight month plan and the US was in it for the ride. The. The experts I know don't think that's true. What they think is true is that. the United States was aware Israel was planning this, and that they felt that they could persuade the Israelis not to do it. As they get closer and closer to a deal. But as they got closer and closer to a deal that made Bibi uncomfortable.

and that Netanyahu essentially went off on his own, prepared to launch the strike now and then notified. the US shortly before the strike that it was actually going to happen, which caught Rubio and some other folks in the administration. Flatfooted. And they're now scrambling to get their story straight on it. And, of course, it's all happening in real time. So Marco Rubio puts out that we had nothing to do it.

And then Donald Trump can't resist. a pretending that he knew about it all along, because he can't stand the idea. that something would be happening without him knowing. How do Marco Rubio and Donald Trump work together in a situation, do you think like this? Well, I think Marco Rubio does what he thinks the secretary of state. is supposed to do, and Donald Trump does what he wants to do. And I think he doesn't really pay much attention to Marco Rubio. His feelings in all of this. And he's a very impulse driven guy.

You know, and he does, as you say, wants to be at the center of this. I saw a comment on some social media feed earlier that said, Donald Trump. wants to be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral. What a fantastic quote. That is a brilliant quote. So let's also talk. I will not forget that quote. Let's also talk only about his golf buddy, Steve Whitcomb,

who is special envoy to the Middle East, as well as special envoy. to Russia and space to be dealing. with Vladimir Putin and helping solve the Ukraine Russia war. What is his actual role here? Well, you know, as it turns out, having a special negotiator for all things. who doesn't know anything about foreign policy is a problem. You remember, in the early days of the administration, Whitcomb was often.

he was like talking to the Qataris. And maybe we're going to have a deal in Gaza. And people are like, wow, this guy is great. And this is Trump's golfing buddies. So Trump was like, wow, this guy is great. He can do everything. Rubio doesn't have to do anything. Now where are we? You know, five months later, Ukraine. Wheatcroft goes he kisses Putin's ass. Nothing, nothing. We've got nowhere in Ukraine. Gaza bad. Getting worse. Having this war is going to make things worse for the people in Gaza, for sure.

Iran? Bad with coffers. Oh, for everything at this point. Because. Vladimir Putin, the Iranians, the Israelis, all the players here, they've actually been down this pike before and they play hardball. And it's just not the same as like, you know, cutting. a real estate deal in New York City with your cronies, you know. So he he's he's not looking as good as he did a few months ago.

Do you think he will be, quickly removed from his role? I don't think so. Because I think that would reflect badly on Trump. But I also think Trump likes to have around him golf buddies, you know. And if Trump can spin this into a success, great. You know, I think Trump is still, you know, laboring. under the misconception that he is the great dealmaker. And so he's just one clever intervention away from changing Putin's mind,

changing the ayatollahs mind in Iran. And oh yeah, getting 90 deals in 90 days. You know, we're sort of on day 70 or so. There are zero deals. And I think that's the bigger question. There was a point I, I tried to make in the column. that I did today for you guys, which is Trump. You know, the dealmaker hasn't actually made any deals.

And he is not growing in influence on the world stage. He's actually shrinking. In fact, I would argue he may be the most impotent. president of the United States that we've seen in our lifetimes. because he's alienated our allies. He is undermined our economy. He's attacked the international system. And, you know, the stuff. going on in LA that's not irrelevant, because people around the world.

look at it and they say the US is collapsing inward. And, you know, the final point is look at Mark Carney coming to the United States. Look at the German chancellor coming to the United States. Look at the comments of the president of Mexico or the president of France. People are making fun of Trump publicly on stage. because they just don't think he's a serious character. So, David, you were an official in the Clinton administration. You were the editor of Foreign Affairs. You have been around this subject matter for a long time.

You've just said that you think Trump is the most impotent. presidents certainly in in living memory. Can you just outline for us why it's so bad to have someone that thinks. that the business deal is the right format for complicated foreign negotiations, when nuclear weapons are at the center of a lot of those negotiations? You bring up a really, really important point.

You know, for a long time, there's this myth that what we need is a business guy. Business guy is a dealmaker. Business guy can get things done. You know, goes back to, like, Ross Perot. It actually goes back further to Herbert Hoover. It tends not to work out so well because businesses and governments are different. They're motivated by different things. Governments have very long term time frames. Governments. The guy in charge is not the CEO in a democracy. It's the people, right?

It's millions of people. The public good is supposed to figure in all of this. There are all these political hurdles that they have to do. They're all these sovereign nations that you have to deal with. And many of the actors aren't rational in business. There is this sense. You know, you're in it to make money. I'm in it to make money. Let's figure out a way we can both do that. in international affairs. That's not always the case.

So if you're going to be a businessperson in government, it would help to actually have some government experience. Of all the presidents in American history, starting with George Washington, there has only been one. with no government experience. And that was Donald Trump the first time out. The problem is that even though now he has four years of experience, Trump doesn't learn anything. He thought he knew it all to begin with.

And so he doesn't, like, take away the lessons. that might make him better at this. And we're seeing that he's off to a worse start now domestically, internationally, economically foreign policy than he was the last time. And he got off to a terrible start the last time. So not only does it help to understand government experience, but it helps to have, I don't know, intellectual curiosity, the willingness to listen to advisers.

You know, that, you know, an ability. to question yourself, maybe just a little smidgen of humility. None of that exists in Donald Trump. Well, he's also strangely under traveled for a president, too, isn't he? I mean, one thinks of him. Really? You think that the nexus of New York, Washington, Mar-A-Lago. I mean, as far as I know, he rarely travels, or he rarely traveled abroad other than to do business deals. And certainly not.

You never thought of him taking a luxury. holiday in Italy or France, or going for the culture. It was purely for business. Yeah, well, I think that's right. I mean, he did demonstrate, you know, this week that he's really into culture. because he went to see Lamesa at the Kennedy Center. What else did Miss so much? It's a it's a musical about the French Revolution. What could he possibly like about that? Because he doesn't understand what it's about. Somebody asked him as he was going in. Which character did you like, the hero or the villain?

He goes, well, that's a very complicated question. He he just doesn't understand. He goes to be seen to to hold. Melania's thumb or she was holding is the IRA, I don't know, holding her thumb, which maybe at this point only he can afford to hold. Yeah. No, I think that's very expensive. And overcharge him for the entire hand. Yeah. No, you're exactly right. But but you know, you know that when Trump went to visit,

I don't know, place X, you know, he went for the Miss Universe pageant to Moscow. He wasn't like, hey, let me see the countryside. Let me meet people. Let me understand about this country where he wasn't. He was like in a little rich guy bubble goes, gets off his plane, goes to the fanciest hotel, hangs out with some rich people, gets back in the plane, and it's like oligarch land. That's where he lives, is oligarch land. And they're on yachts, too. You know, it's the same people in the same dumb pink pants.

And they've got the same kind of interests. They speak English, they read the Wall Street Journal, they talk about the market, they talk about their golf scores. They talk about, you know, their second or third or wife or whatever it is that they're doing and, and they're not really that interested, in the world, certainly he's not. I mean, I've met a lot of people like that, and every single one. that I met, every one of them, with that exception of the hundreds that I met,

they were more intellectually curious than Donald Trump. All right, so what, so-called enemies, Vladimir Putin and Jinping's thinking about this moment. Well, Vladimir Putin's really uncomfortable right now. because Iran is a really important ally. Iran, you know, is building drones for them to use in Ukraine. Russia doesn't have a lot of allies. And, you know, so they're, you know,

having Iran with a nuclear weapon is better. for Russia a little bit. But certainly having Iran destroyed or sent in a gas. is much worse, for Russia. XI Jinping. got to be the happiest guy in the world. You know, Trump didn't say, you know, he's he said some admiring things. about XI Jinping. But we knew his bromance was with Vladimir Putin, right. But XI Jinping, he wins every time. Every time Trump steps up to bat, XI Jinping wins.

You know, the US economy gets weaker, China benefits, the US turns away scientists, China benefits, the US becomes, you know, less competitive because of tariffs. Shows it doesn't care about the international system. China's, you know, can lead by and contrast itself by example. It wins us has riots in the street. or it sends in troops or looks like an authoritarian nation. China wins. By comparison. US tries to stand up to China.

China wins. XI Jinping has had a great six months. The Chinese people I talked to, you know, they kind of laugh under their breath. and they say, Donald Trump is great president for us, bad president for the United States, good president for China. So Joe Biden, the previous president, was supposed to be an expert. Thanks for thanks for reminding me. Well, I mean so much everywhere, all at once.

It's hard to even think that he actually stepped down earlier this year. It feels like a lifetime ago. But my only point was that he loved foreign affairs, took it. very seriously, was surrounded by people like Antony. Blinken, the former secretary of state, who took it incredibly seriously. What are all those people who spent their lifetime thinking about this? What are they all saying now? What are they saying to each other? I know that you talk to them. How do I do it? They.

You know, these people are despairing because there's watching the United States. fritter away everything that took 100 years to build up, right? I mean, you know, in in the last 100 years, the United States went. from being outside the international system, really, to being inside it to being the leader of it, to be the architect. of it, to being, after the end of the Cold War, sort of the hyper power, the, the sole superpower. And, you know, we had these assets.

One of them was or alliances Trump is attacking. This one was the fact that people trusted us not to. We always did the right thing, but, you know, the full faith. and credit of the United States government was the foundation of our economy. The fact that we signed a treaty, we would follow through in the trade. that's gone. Trump has gotten rid of that. You know, the first, you know, 2018, he got rid of the Iran nuclear deal. that he's been trying to rebuild this time.

We don't, you know, he doesn't have standing with his peers. We are weakening from within. We were once seen as a beacon of, of democracy. We're certainly not seen as that anymore. And so, you know, and and on top of all of this, Trump has gutted the mechanisms in the United States government. that provide presidents with the kind of advice that Blinken would give Biden.

I'm not saying Biden made all the right decisions. He clearly did not. But from, you know, 1947. on, there's been a NSC which is, you know, advised. presidents and brought to cabinet together to advise them. Trump just National Security Council. Trump cut it by 100 people. Looks like he's going to cut it. in half. It'll be the smallest it's been in a couple of decades. There hasn't been a national security advisor since the beginning of May.

Marco Rubio was doing not just double duty, but quadruple duty. He has got four other jobs. Trump, we know, has had 12 or so intelligence. briefings in the course of the past five months because he doesn't like them. And so now, Tulsi Gabbard, the director of National intelligence, is trying to figure out. how to do an intelligence briefing that looks like a Fox News show, because that's the only thing she can get Trump to pay attention to. And so the whole process of sort of collecting the intelligence of experts,

getting it to the president so he can make an informed decision. that's got so basically. everything you need to do the right thing is gone. All the things that we had going to our advantage are gone. And, you know, foreign policy professional I'm not talking about Democrats, by the way, talking about senior people in the Bush administration. I'm talking about completely. independent thinkers from the military.

Everybody is in despair because this is not just sad, it's dangerous. You mentioned other Democratic leaders before. Obviously, Mark Carney, the new premier in Canada, Claudia, Shane, Bob in Mexico. The German chancellor. Is there anyone likely to step up? I understand they don't have the economy, obviously, that America does, but is there anybody. who do you think among them is the most likely to take the lead here? Well, the question is take the lead in what?

I'm a lot of issues on the international stage. China, by virtue of its size, is going to be in a leadership role. among the community of democracies. I think it's going to take a while to sort out. I think the leadership in the EU. has an important role to play the collective leaders. So Ursula von der Leyen or Christine Lagarde, who have stood up well to Trump and have really tried to balance that, they have an important voice to play, in, in Europe right now.

Macron sort of has the edge in terms of influence. But Meretz came and I think he, Mayo made a good. impression, was a little stronger than people thought he would be. Mark Carney has, you know, the Canadians have sort of stepped up and made an impression as well. I, you know, I don't think we know who will emerge at the end. except we know it won't be Donald Trump. The most important job, the most important person,

the most important country in the world, is just not going to play the role it played in the past. David, thank you very much. It's a very, it's a very strange moment for America. Very strange moment indeed. But thank you, as always, for your insightful. observations, and I hope you will come back on again soon. And we can, watch the evolving situation. I am always available, and someday, who knows, maybe we'll talk about. something that's more positive than what we've just been discussing.

It's hard to imagine that right now. It does feel like the world order has really changed, and it's all up for grabs. It certainly does, and I don't think it's going to be made any better when, you know, later this week, Donald Trump plays toy soldiers in Washington. You know, it's it's it looks like we're distracted. You mean with the birthday parade? Yeah. With the birthday parade. It's like, you know, the czar. You know, I guess Czar Nicholas the Second used to like to play.

with toy soldiers while Russia collapsed because it made him. feel like he was a general. And I think, you know, we're sort of in the same kind of period where Trump is. like, well, maybe I should focus on paving over Jackie Kennedy's Rose garden. Yeah. Strange times indeed. David, thank you as ever. And, we will talk to you soon. And I want to urge people to read your column in The Daily Beast. It's sobering indeed. Thank you.

Who better to hear from than David Rothkopf for the moment? Like this. With his sober reflections on what's going on. And he understands the crazy going on as well as the seriousness of the moment. His columns are available at the Daily beast.com, where you can. subscribe to The Beast for minute by minute updates on what's going on. Feel free to subscribe to this podcast. Tell all your friends. Share it with your friends.

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Until then, beast. And this podcast was produced by Devin Roger Reno and Anna von Essen.