Trump Is Fading and His Staff Knows It: Rothkopf | The Daily Beast Podcast

You know. That's the thing. Every day. You know the Iranians. They're humiliating him. He's going to go to China. He won't even know it. They'll be humiliating him by showing how far they're getting ahead. And he's not getting ahead. Every time he talks to Putin, it clear to the world. that Putin is using Trump and Trump is their poodle. And when he gets on TV these days, he gets humiliated. I don't know. Did he ever have magic? I don't know, but but if he did, it's gone.

I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. And of course, as ever on a Monday, I'm about to start talking to David Rothkopf, who's deep in the intelligence and foreign affairs services in DC. And, well, what he's hearing from his sources is deeply, deeply unsettling. But before we get to that, I just want to remind you, smash the subscription button. We're closing in on 700,000 subscribers,

which is amazing, and we really appreciate your support. We are independent media, which is how we can bring you. the kind of conversations that we do anyway. David Rothkopf, let's take it away. David Rothkopf. Yes. Joanna Coles, far across the ocean. Do I have to shout for you? Do in far off Blighty. Far off Blighty, where the vibes, as my parents. refer to the internet, are very, very slow.

So thank you for bearing with me. I will say, looking at the situation from the UK and watching Donald Trump. walk from Marine Force One with his son, it appeared as if the president was compressing himself. His neck has disappeared and I remember Steve. Bannon said he thought he looked like a giant shrimp. I think he looks more like a bison with that kind of.

He's got no neck. What's happened to his neck? The president looks terrible. His Kangol swelling over his oxfords when the king came. I mean, they're like king sized cancels. David. He looks terrible. What's happening? What's happening with the. With the president's health? Well, I think the. president has always had the kind of job of the hut gene, you know, and I just think it's kind of triggering. now as he gets to a certain age and he's becoming kind of gelatinous.

And, you know, it makes it easier to get around the white House. He can lose under the door. He's always sort of had that vibe that he could lose under a door. Right. But, you know, you know, it's there is something going on with Trump now. And I think, you know, we've got lots of stories in the news about Iran. and about the Supreme Court and about elections and stuff like that. And then there's the James Comey thing. But the one thing about Trump that's happening every day,

and you're putting your finger on it here is he's fading. He's failing. He's fading physically. He's fading mentally. He can't handle things. You know, he said today in an interview, oh, I do Iran over again. I don't think he even remembers what he did in the first place. He doesn't know how to get out of what he's doing on Iran. He he the Supreme Court rules one thing on tariffs. He says, no, we're going to have 25% more tariffs on Europe,

even though it's a disaster. His political numbers are a disaster. And you know, when I think of all of this and I think of, you know, Trump. decaying before our very eyes and also day after day doing himself in, you know, I to me, the headline is you don't need James Comey. to call for somebody to 8647. Trump is 86 himself. You know, he is.

He is he's shuffling off the stage and and you see it. You know, we sent some notes back and forth before we started. You see a lot of people. now starting to say, I got to start heading hedging my bets. This guy is not long for this world, you know, or it's is it going to be JD or is it going to be Marco? People talking about that a lot, or. how are the Democrats going to succeed him or what's going on? You know, it's the end of MAGA.

And I think we need to put all this together and say, you know, it's where we're watching him dissolve. before our very eyes and, and and, you know, tomorrow's a big day. I don't know if you're going to celebrate it there in the UK, you probably think it's Cinco de Mayo, but it's something. more important than Cinco de Mayo, which I know is a big UK holiday. It's six months to the election, tomorrow is six months.

Six months to November. Right. So intriguing. Well, he definitely looks worse. And of course, he's also now got Marjorie Taylor Greene. barking at him from Ron Paul's, sort of circus of a conference. But she said, I don't have Trump Derangement Syndrome. I've got Trump disappointment syndrome, which is a as a sort of catch phrase,

isn't very compelling, except that. she used to be his biggest fan. Well, you know, she's got like, jilted MAGA syndrome, right? You know, there's there's something like she, you know, she's like, hurt. because he didn't support her Senate bid or some kind of thing like that. And I got no sympathy for Marjorie Taylor Greene. But one by one, we're starting to see these people distance themselves. a little bit or hedge their bets a little bit.

And and I think that's just going to accelerate. And Trump knows it. He knows it. The one thing I think he realizes most of all is. if he loses this election, he is the lamest of lame ducks. He's over. No, you know, he'll never get anything done. You know, everything he wants to do, the spending will be blocked for it. He won't build his arches.

He won't be able to pave over more of the white House garden, you know, and. And I think he is real. It's really it's you know, we've talked about this before. It's kind of sad. It's like watching a guy come to grips with his own mortality. And that's what I get out of Trump all the time. He's just this old man struggling, saying, no, it's happened to fast. It's going, I want more time. And it's just he's running out of time.

He's running out of time, which I think is a line from a Hamilton, isn't it? But is he running out of time to open the Strait of Hormuz, which the only thing his war on Iran appears to have done? Of course, it's cleared out the Iranian leadership, but there's new leadership. that's emerged, like when you've chopped the head off a worm and it grows back. But the Strait of Hormuz, that appeared to be open before the war.

and is largely the reason that the previous five. presidents haven't gone into Iran as this one has. Is he going to be able to guarantee safe passage to the tankers. and the cargo ships that are stuck there, as he's claiming? I mean, this morning he was supposed to open it for people, and the Iranians have already apparently fired on. one on one Navy American Navy vessel. Well, they say they fired on it.

Central command says they have not fired on it. Central command, I think, has been lying about a lot of the damage. the Iranians have done to them. There's this big sort of festering scandal that perhaps the Iranians. have done much more damage to US bases in the region, to U.S. aircraft and so forth. Then we know and of course, we don't. You know, Pete Hegseth, Department of Defense, nobody trusts. anything that they say. But, you know, you can't trust what Trump says from one minute to the next.

And on this particular issue over the weekend, he said, well, we're going to have this operation. and we're going to send our guided missile destroyers alongside. merchant ships and will guide them through and everything will be fine. Well, two problems with that. One problem with it is his. His team immediately backed off and said, well, that's not really what we're doing. We're just going to give them some advice on where they can go. That's safer. Okay. Secondly,

you know, he's I think he's reached out to some people. There was one report that he reached out to the Chinese. and said, you know, it's going to cost us $2 billion a day to keep the strait open. And the Chinese said, that's on you, buddy. I mean, I don't think they said, it's on you, buddy, but the the the point is. their their message was this strait was open. before you went in and started this illegal war on the 28th. And you know, you want to open it up.

You know, you've got to resolve your issues with the Iranians. And we are a long way from resolving the issues with the Iranians. You know, the Iranians have put a counterproposal. The US rejected the counterproposal. There's talk. about trying to get a framework where nowhere near getting a framework. Meanwhile, you know, the Israelis are still, you know, blowing things up in Lebanon. The Iranians apparently fired on a UAE tanker this morning.

There was an air raid in the in the UAE this morning. This is a festering wound and there is no doctor. who knows how to solve it, because Trump keeps saying no. to the only things that could bring it to a conclusion, which is he stops fighting. and he accepts the Iranian promise that they're not going to seek. any nuclear weapons. And he moves on. He turns the page, but he's too stubborn to do that.

So. So, David, I don't want to side with the Iranians in any way here. They are a horrible regime. But why would they acquiesce to anything. the Americans want at this point, given that, weirdly, they've emerged. from Trump's bombing campaign with the upper hand, with the Strait of Hormuz. That they. they wouldn't and they won't, and they're not going to and we know that. And they think they have more time.

than Trump does because they know there's an election. They know that if the Republicans lose in November, that Trump becomes, you know, a politically emasculated, and. they know that this war is super unpopular. The longer it goes on, the higher the price of, of of gasoline is. I filled up my car over the weekend, and admittedly it was premium gasoline.

It was $6.39 for a gallon of gasoline. I could only afford half a gallon. But, you know, it was it was, it was it. is bad news for the average American out there. And they know it. And so it's not just the Strait of Hormuz. They know they're applying economic pressure. to the average American in a way that is intolerable for Trump. But Trump is just too proud.

And I think Trump is also I don't know, it goes back to this earlier point. I think he's kind of disconnected. from from from reality a little bit. You know, it's part of it is. I think he's losing his marbles. Listen, you're in the middle. You talk to people in the intelligence services. You talk to people at the Defense Department. What are they saying?

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Experience the new standard in comfort and support. with Honey Love. Well, they're saying he is erratic. You know, they're saying he is in denial about these things. You know, over you know, over the past few hours he said, oh, we're going to take over Cuba next right away. No, no, wait, no delay. We're going to go do this kind of thing. There was an article in the Atlantic a couple of days ago. What was the article about?

It was about the Trump thinks he's the most powerful man who ever lived. I mean, seriously, you know, if somebody says that to you, the first thing you do is you say, well, maybe you want a cold compress here. Let's hydrate a little bit. I'll call the doctor. You stay here. Right. Because he's, he's, he's he's out of his gourd. But but I also think because he's a narcissist, he doesn't think anything continues after him.

Like after he's dead, everything is gone. After he leaves office, he doesn't care what happens to the United States. He doesn't care what happens to Mega he. He only cares about what happens to him. And so as he sees the end approach, he's starting to act in a way that things have no consequences. Okay, we'll keep the war going forever. Sure, we'll go and invade Cuba. Yeah, we're going to pull our troops out of Europe because what could happen? Nothing. To me.

That's no skin off of my nose. To make Europe more vulnerable to the Russians. He doesn't care that people are losing their health care or that, you know, the environment is going to be destroyed because he's strip. mining the world and pushing us back to go because it's not affecting him. He lives in a little bubble, Mar a Lago, where he kind of expects to die. You know, he'll just be in there and they'll all be sitting around.

or whoever sitting around, whoever he pays to hold his hand. in his last minutes of life because his wife won't be there. And, and I think that's, that's where his head is right now. So morbid, but that's what. So. So what are you hearing from the Defense Department about how the. death, as he's called in, in your terms. or seek war as he would like to be called, Pete Hegseth? How is he doing in all this?

Well, he's he's doing terribly and, and and first of all, you know, nobody who's a professional refers to as the, you know, Department of War. That's a Trump administration lie. It's not legal. The Congress has to determine what the name of the department is. But quite apart from that, you know, people see that he is a liar. He's an extremist.

He attacks troops who, you know, I mean, look, here's a case where I was talking to somebody over the weekend. and they were saying how pissed off people were is, is. is some of the troops who were injured or near the troops that were injured. or killed in the attack that hit this unfortified facility in Kuwait. have said, we we're not we're not being protected. Others in the region have said, we're not, you know, getting good food, right?

We're not getting good rations and and calling them liars. And Hegseth is saying that they're traitors. Rather, you know, he talks a good game about standing up for the troops, but actually he has thrown generals under the bus. He's thrown admirals under the bus. He's throwing people. with beards, under the bus, he's throwing fat people under the bus. He's throwing black people under the bus. He's throwing women under the bus. He's thrown nonevent. Protestants under the bus on a regular basis.

And frankly, you know, evangelical Protestants make up about a third of the military, right, other kinds of Christians and make up another third, and then Jewish and Hindi. and Buddhist and others make up another third. And and all of these people are alienated every day by hexes. So he may be winning with Trump, but he's failing with the million people. that work for him. And I don't think it's unfair to say that when I talk to people,

you know, it's halfway between disgust and hatred of fur. And that's why I think, you know, there's a short list of people. who are in this administration who are not going to make it to January 1st. Hexes, cash, Patel, Tulsi Gabbard, the core of the national security team. They're all done. It's just extraordinary.

And so what do we think, then, of the secretary of state, who, as we know, has got in. numerous jobs at this point, including national Security advisor? Normally those roles are separate because if you're president, you want more than one opinion being dispatched to talk to the Pope. Now, Trump has realized that if the pope doesn't come. before the election, which in theory, he was supposed to be doing. to celebrate 250 years of America's existence, that that would be a bad thing.

So Marco Rubio has now been dispatched to be the Pope whisperer. Another of his jobs are do you think he's going to get very far? And is this a slight to JD Vance, who. basically wants to be the most public Roman Catholic in the cabinet. and has got a book coming out in June called communion about how he found his. way back to the Catholic faith, presumably presumably taking in the fact.

that he was the last person to visit the previous pope. And the day after JD's visit, the Pope expired. Yeah, right. JD Vance, Pope killer. The the the the Rubio story is interesting. First of all, there was one time I've written a couple of histories of NSC, and there was a time when their national security. adviser, Secretary of state, was the same person. It was.

Henry Kissinger played both roles. Marco Rubio is not Henry Kissinger, but Donald Trump is not Richard Nixon. And Richard Nixon was actually extremely adept. at foreign policy, doesn't actually get enough credit. for some of his breakthroughs, like the opening to China and so forth. And, you know, so it's a very, very different kind of situation, but it didn't work very well.

So I actually spoke to Gerald Ford about this because he is. the one who undid it. He left Kissinger as secretary of State, and he made Brant Scowcroft, who was Kissinger's deputy at the NSC, as a national security advisor. And and Ford said one of the most important things he did as. president was splitting the two jobs up because he felt it. too much power had been concentrated in Kissinger's hands. Now, having said that,

too much power has not been put into Rubio's hands. because he didn't have any power, because Trump doesn't listen to anybody. And so he's got Rubio doing all sorts of weird, odd jobs whenever he can. JD Vance makes a mess of speech at the Munich security conference. Rubio gets sent in the next year to clean it up. JD Vance is set off to Pakistan to and the war. Rubio goes with Trump to the UFC match and holds his hand. while all this is going on.

And now Rubio is being sent off to. to to sort of paper things over with the Pope. I think we should be clear. The Pope is the one who delivered the last blow in this because he took somebody. who was a player in his life, undocumented, here in the United States. And he made him the cardinal from West Virginia. And it was a very clear message. that he supports refugees and immigrants.

And he opposes, as he is often said, the Trump administration's immigration policies. And that was that was just a week ago. So I think Trump realizes, and I suspect a lot of people. in the Republican Party have said to Trump, you got to fix this. The swing vote that got MAGA across the line was Catholics. I think it was something like 55, 43 Catholic split for Trump. And so they they're is a lot of pressure on him to fix it.

Now, Ruby is a kind of odd choice because other Ruby was born Catholic. I think for a while there he converted to being a mormon. I don't know what his current status is on this. And and of course, there is the Vance issue. where Vance is saying publicly, I'm a Catholic, it means a lot to me to be a Catholic and so forth. But, you know, he's attacked the Pope and he has told the, you know, he's the one who said the pope ought to be very careful.

about getting into theology, which was one of the weirdest, most arrogant statements ever made by any American politician. But I think what this says more than anything else. is Trump realizes he has a problem, and that one of the core groups. that is essential to the Republicans having any chance at all. in November is being alienated. by their repeated attacks on the Pope.

And, you know, I doubt Rubio is going to fix that. He's certainly not going to be able to fix it publicly, because every time. anything comes up, Rubio says, oh, the president's right. President's right about that. He never, ever publicly questions or apologizes for Trump. He also looks terrible. I am really interested in how we can see this cabinet. I mean, you said Trump was dissolving before our very eyes,

and it's really noticeable how his neck has just disappeared. and we should figure out what was going on at his dentist appointment. this Saturday. But but when you look. at these cabinet ministers, you can see the stress on their faces. You can see it on Rubio's face, which is Rubio's definitely lost weight. He looks gaunt, his face a sort of gotten longer. Pete Hegseth, in the hearings last week, looked absolutely frantic. He looked across between sort of panicked and frantic and,

you can see them all looking. really under pressure, and I don't actually remember. having seen it so obviously in previous cabinets, actually. And I guess the war adds adds pressure. But but sometimes things are just hiding in plain sight. And this isn't even hiding. So how serious do you. But. I just want to say you are really on to something here.

And I think it's really important. this administration is on the defensive. They see the polls. They know that the core support for Trump, which, you know, at a floor. 40%, then 33% on critical issues is now down to under 25%. They know that the war is unpopular, that he's doing. terribly with polls on the economy, which used to be a strong suit, that even his immigration policies are unpopular, that his negative rating.

right now, his disapproval rating is like 66%. It's like two thirds of the American people are against. what he's doing, and nothing he is doing is fixing it. Right. And so who's on the defensive? Caroline Levitz on the defensive, Steven Chung is on the defensive. Susie Wiles is on the defensive. Hegseth is yelling at everybody around him. Rubio's on the defensive. Bondi was on the defensive when she was there.

Now Todd Blanch, the acting attorney general, is whining. and whining and whining all the time because he is on the defensive. Somehow Scott Beasant has gotten even smarmy or he's become more smarmy. You know, he's he is in his own condescending, kind of super weird 1930s movie villain way. He is getting weirder. And the reason you haven't seen it very much. is that usually the message from administrations.

where the feeling about them from within is a little more mixed right there. Usually there's some good news to balance things out. And, you know, there was a moment during. the George W Bush administration where things were pretty bad. And ultimately, you know, he, he he got rid of Rumsfeld and he shook. things up a little bit because of that, because he was trying to adjust to it.

The problem with Trump is he doesn't adjust. You know, the only time I remember it really like this. was Nixon during Watergate, where they were so defensive. I don't know if you remember it, but there was an incident where Nixon's. press secretary, Ron Ziegler, pushed somebody out of the way. You know, just he was he couldn't contain himself, and he pushed somebody. And, you know, you know, he was starting to have cabinet secretaries go to jail.

And and if there was a meltdown and, you know, speaking keeping with our. theme of dissolving, there is a meltdown going on in the Trump administration. because nobody's got a solution, you know, pick a problem, any of the problems that they've got, whether it's the economy or Iran or, you know, health. care or the Congress not getting anything better or whatever. Nothing is working. Everything they try. Let's have Melania make a movie lets you know, have the president.

announced some new building lets you know. You know, I don't even it's it seems that there's even some discussion. that the UFC fight on the South lawn of the white House, the ultimate. bread and circuses distraction of this administration may not happen. Who knows? But but, but but the point is, they're plumb out of tricks. Well, there's no more rabbit. There's no more rabbits in their hat, right? There's no rabbit to pull out of a hat.

And also, the other thing that Donald Trump has done. is because he's allowed cameras into the cabinet meetings. We are all so much more aware of the people he has put round him. So we know what the head of intelligence looks like. Tulsi Gabbard, we know what looks like. We know who Marco Rubio is. We know who Linda McMahon is. We all knew how who Lori Chavez drummer, was the labor secretary. who just got fired because she did this egregious suck up where she said, Mr.

President, I do hope you've seen that. Your beautiful face on the banner hanging outside the Department of Labor, which was still not enough to protect her once her husband got banned. for the building for sexually harassing members. of her department, her father was told to stay away. and her own bodyguard had to leave because of relations they'd had. So we know who these people are, because Trump has let us in in a way.

that normal presidents don't, and he has created them as characters. So we all know them as characters, and we can see their flaws. and we don't see any of their strengths. Because, as you say, everything is going wrong. From ice to foreign affairs to the prices. of things, it's all going wrong. Well, this. may seem a little facile, but bear with me here. It really does seem like a psychotic version of The Apprentice.

You know Trump. Trump. You know, the myth of Trump was that he was a great business spinner. He wasn't. He was a bad businessman. Everybody knows he was. He was a terrible. Businessman, David. He was a terrible businessman. Remember? Terrible steaks, Trump water. I mean, the list goes on and on. Trump's wine, Trump champagne, Trump University. Funny running because he lost money running a casino. Nobody could do that.

My dog grizzly could make money running a casino. But here's the thing. Look at his cabinet. It looks more and more like the Apprentice, right? He's got a table full of people who are like the characters who are on that show. And one by one, he's firing them. And, you know, at the end of the day, one of them's going to be left. and they'll say, well, and you get a great new job, Marco or JD or whatever, you can succeed the president. Except, of course, that job is a fake. Two he is in no position to promise that.

But but meanwhile this you're right, because it's kind of televised. This is I mean, again, it's facile, but it's true. Right, right. This is reality TV presidency. And the way reality TV shows go off. the tracks is when there's no appealing characters. They, you know, there's nobody anybody can relate to. The host is kind of odious. And then, you know, the show gets canceled. And The apprentice, you know, the apprentice ratings started to fall.

The ratings of this show are shown up in the polls, and they are going to fall, and he is going to behave ever weirder. And, and and I think he will fire a lot of these people. because they're not helping him and he won't own that. The reason the problems exist is him. He'll say, oh, well, Marco dropped the ball on that. Pete dropped the ball and that cash Patel I mean, you're you're in the UK. So he didn't get to watch a Z's on. Sorry.

Oh, I did, because I watched it. Of course I watched. It was fantastic. The only thing he didn't do, I mean, he did that brilliant thing with the eyes. He didn't do the cross eyes, which is what Cash Patel does. But I thought Aziz Ansari, I mean, it was it couldn't have been better. Him and Colin Jost, Colin Jost as a frat boy. was wonderful. And if you haven't watched it, go. and watch it on YouTube because it was really good. Yeah, it's good.

But you know, the thing he captures in both of them and the. the reason it's funny is their desperation. Seth lashing out at everybody, yelling at everybody, telling them all that they're jerks. But doing it with that kind of eighth grade, you know, locker room, you know, kind of humor that he uses and, and. and as he's on sorry, is there a begging for his job, you know, or as Cash Patel begging for his job and saying, I'm great. And soon I'm going to find where Osama bin laden is?

I know that was it was so funny. It was so funny. We have a very good story in the Beast today about the video that Cash Patel. released, showing all the work that the FBI has been doing. And of course, the FBI does do good work, even when it's led by Cash Patel. But the whole thing was very clearly a plea to Trump to help him keep his job. And of course, there was lots of criticism of the previous. president of Joe Biden for not appearing for never doing interviews, or I think he did six the entire time he was president.

But he didn't he didn't. sort of play his cabinet like this and dangle them in front of people. so that they were essentially failing in plain sight. And you'd be pushed to remember who some of Obama's cabinet secretaries were, because the business of government, with both Biden and with Obama was taken. seriously and went on, you know, in quiet rooms. where people could work effectively without having a camera in their face.

If you're in a cabinet meeting and the camera is in your face, you have to perform for it. And what Trump has done is surrounded himself with a cabinet. of performers, as we've talked about before, like P.T. Barnum. And as you say, the ratings have plummeted. When you go inside. and you see what's happening and it's not going to get any better. Yeah. The problem is this, of course, this isn't The Apprentice. It's not a meaningless reality TV show.

Having Trump think that he's the most powerful man in the history of. the world is super dangerous as he decays before our very eyes. And every single day, some damage is being done. to the United States and to the planet Earth. And typically on typical days, multiple kinds of damage. that are either irreversible or terrible. Last week, you know, we haven't talked about it here because it's just not, as,

you know, zesty, but but last week, the Supreme Court made. one of its worst decisions in history when in the Calais decision. about Louisiana, essentially, they said, yeah, no, the Voting Rights Act is over. We're going to allow people to redistrict. to serve political purposes that they. that wasn't their explicit statement, but that's the effect within days. Louisiana of Florida, other states are now,

you know, redistricting, which is essentially taking the voting. rights away from people in minorities or Democrats by, you know, drawing the lines in such a way that their votes won't matter. And Trump is over the weekend again. in his kind of manic way on true social, urging them on. We need 20 more votes. And if they don't get the 20 votes, they're going to impeach me. And and, you know, and there's a war and he's destroying.

the environment, and millions of people are getting kicked off health care. And the country is the biggest deficit that it's ever had in its history. And we're falling behind. China and, and and you know, all these terrible things are happening. So, you know, this this reality show, while it's diverting and crazy, is also masking another story. which is much more grave, serious,

profound in terms of its consequences for everybody else. And it's real important we don't lose sight of that because, you know, yeah, Trump's, you know, kind of a weird grandpa. But so long as Trump thinks he has power. and so long as you have a Congress that won't stand up to him and say, well, you don't have authority to fight this war, or you can't just build any building you want, or you can't just repurpose. funds or withhold funds for Ukraine, which was a story of the past couple of days.

Until you have a Congress that stands up to him, this bad stuff is going to happen, and millions and millions and in some. cases, billions and billions of people are going to feel the pain. of this psychotic reality show. that 77 million Americans said should be, you know, the, the, the, the narrative of,

you know, two four year periods in our history. So last week when we spoke, you thought that. the king was a stooge. You thought that he'd been dispatched. by the British prime minister to try and sue. I thought I thought. We'd get back to this. Yes. Go on. Well, I'm. Curious, though, because what you heard and what you saw, for me, the most fascinating achievement of of the King was the fact that he got Congress.

to stand, both parties to stand, but he got Republicans to applaud. You know, the idea of American democracy, the. the idea of, of the beautiful, pristine American environment. And he got them to applaud things which shouldn't feel controversial. But of course, everything's controversial and everything's political. under this particular system that we have at the moment. or under this particular president. I was curious to to see whether or not you felt better.

about the King's visit after after he'd come and gone. And I promise you, I'm not trying to say I told you so, because he exceeded. My. Expectations and my expectations were reasonable. I really. it feels a little bit like I told you so, but, but but I got to tell you. Totally justified. You were right, I was wrong. Okay. And I, you know, this is one of the things that makes me different from Trump.

I'm able to acknowledge it. The other thing is that I have a neck, but. but between those two things, I'm quite different from Trump. But I thought the King did a great job. And and in some ways I thought he did a masterful job. He stood in front of the Congress and he delivered blow after blow to Trump. And what's wrong with Trump? Whether it was the Magna Carta in the importance of the rule of law. or the importance of checks on executive power, the importance of NATO,

or the importance of supporting Ukraine, and the list of things goes on and on. And. it's just been spectacular. that he was able to do this. And as you say, get the Republicans to actually stand out. and applaud him as he was deconstructing Trump.

And, you know, another sign by the way, of Trump losing. it is he was, you know, sort of, you know, trying to rub up against the king. and get some of that royalty to rub off on him. And after the speech in in which it was like, you know, some samurai warrior with a razor sharp. katana chopping somebody apart, and they don't even know it. until they shake and all the pieces fall apart.

It at after the speech, Trump goes, That was a great speech. I wish I could give a speech like that. And so the you know, the main thing that I took away from it is Trump didn't understand anything. The king was saying. Well. And he. Did. This true. Well. He seems. Mesmerized by the king's accent. But but also when the king said, you know, we must support Ukraine.

And that whole house got up and applauded that, that was also a moment, I thought that has actually. Been underplayed. It was it was it was beautifully done. And then when he had the dinner at the white House, he continued. some of these themes, you know, and he, you know, he understood Trump. He said here President Trump is a bell. It says Trump on it. You can play with that. And Trump's like, oh, a bell that says Trump. He was like a child and you know.

and and meanwhile the king is eviscerating him. He's just taking him apart piece by piece. And then Trump is like, thank you. Thank you for eviscerating me. Thank you for making me look like an idiot. And then the king flies off. and and to Bermuda or wherever he went on his next stop. And so let me say this again slowly so that everybody can hear me. You are right, Joanna. And I was wrong. Well. I don't hear that very often on podcast, David, so I'm going to take it.

But he exceeded my expectations. I thought that he would do some real diplomatic jiu jitsu. Although I like your idea of the samurai so that the bits fall apart. when the when the victim stands up. But Trump didn't quite understand, I think, what was happening to him. He was so fixated by the accent. It was sort of. Look, we we we we talk a lot about Trump, but I don't think we should ever. completely set aside the fact that he's an idiot.

You know? I mean, you know, he's he's, you know, he's a bad guy. and he's decaying and he's demented and and he has, you know, he's got certain horrible impulses, but he's also an idiot. And I just don't think, you know, when I don't think he's ever listened to his speech. I don't think his attention span is. long enough to, you know, he's got something in his brain. And unless the guy actually says the word Trump, he doesn't hear it.

He doesn't hear it unless it's about himself. He doesn't hear it. And it was also fascinating watching Melania standing next to him. I mean, two weeks after she gave her very peculiar speech. about not knowing Jeffrey Epstein. And there she was again. And he's trying to reach for her hand. and she's flicking it away, and then she finally takes it when they. Have. To walk down the stairs, because she knows he needs to cling onto. her to walk down the stairs.

He wasn't right next to a banister. So that was the sort of semi tragic moment too, because her disdain for. Him was really very clear. Very clear. I was it was so horrible. to watch her flick his hand away so that he couldn't hold her hand. And and she's sitting there stone faced. It was just I mean you almost and not quite,

but almost felt something for Trump in that kind of humiliation. But, you know, that's the theme every day. You know, the Iranians, they're humiliating him. He's going to go to China. He won't even know it. They'll be humiliating him by showing how far they're getting ahead. And he's not getting getting ahead. Every time he talks to Putin, it clear to the world. that Putin is using Trump and Trump is their poodle. You know, and when he gets on TV these days, he gets humiliated.

He does, he does. He's just lost I don't know. Did he ever have magic? I don't know, but but if he did, it's gone. His magic has gone the way of his neck. It's sort of compressed on itself. We should be by. Right. David, you and I at the Met Gala tonight. Jeff Bezos is the biggest sponsor of it. I think he and Lauren Sanchez, his his second wife, I think.

Is he her fourth husband or fifth husband? Fourth husband? I think they're supporting the met tonight with $10 million. We are not going. Trump is not going. Either. And neither is Zoran Mamdani. Yeah. And I and I understand is not going either. But but you know I will. I always find that this is kind of the sign of the apocalypse. You love parties and all that kind of stuff. And you were like part of the fashion constellation that rules the world.

And I guess, parties. Young. What's wrong? I don't I know, it's great. I like parties as if there's something wrong with liking parties. There's there's there's there's not. But. And and you were always the the smarter, funnier, more, likable major magazine editor in that world. I'm not contrasting you with Anna Winter directly, but yes, I am, and but you know, here we've got this event.

taking place, which I always feel is like a sign of the apocalypse. because a bunch of nobody's show up in these credibly excessive. pieces of clothing and celebrate themselves. for how rich they are and the world is suffering. But having said that, it is interesting with the Bezos thing. and with Lauren Sanchez trying to place herself. at the center of this, because we do have to remember that. Trump is a is a pawn of a bunch of oligarchs.

who are putting billions of dollars into our political system. and our other systems so that they can control the outcomes. And Peter Thiel and Palantir, you know, want to have. a kind of new kind of state where women can't vote. And Bezos has his agenda and Elon has his white supremacist agenda. But those people will be there after Trump is gone. They will be going to the Met Gala after Trump is gone and forgotten.

One thing that I think is kind of interesting, I did not get to go and see The Devil Wears Prada to this weekend, although I was glad to see The Daily Beast had a nice review of it, but the people I spoke into who did get to see it and enjoyed it. a great deal thought it was quite interesting that here is this very Vogue. centric movie that has Jeff Bezos as the villain. and then, you know, cut to the Met Gala and also under Vogue, and you have just Bezos as the center of attention and the chairman.

And it's like they're trying to have it both ways. You know, it's like, yeah, let's make fun of the billionaires, but let's not make too much fun of. the billionaires. And that's, you know, there's a little bit of that vibe going on with everything right now. Because as people see Trump and the MAGA movement, these others losing. some power, everybody is going to start trying to have it both ways. You know, they're they're they're going to show loyalty. to the powers that be if that you know that they think they need to.

But they're also they're going to distance themselves where they can. And I think the juxtaposition in this movie. and this event is just a little vignette of that. Yeah. Well. We'll see what everyone was wearing. I find the sort of pick me where people are just wearing. more and more outrageous outfits because they just want the clicks. Is so much. less interesting than than fashion used to be. But but I went once and I thoroughly enjoyed.

It was great fun. But David Rothkopf, we will be here next Monday. We can we can dissect the pick me outfits if we need to, but I suspect. there will be more urgent matters for us to pay. our podcast attention to. Well, yeah, but I hope we don't just limit ourselves. to the urgent matters, because sometimes the fun matters are helpful. And, you know, in fact, if I can add one last thing,

I've been thinking about this a little bit. Maybe I'll write something for you about this, but I've been thinking about what a huge hit the astronauts from the Artemis. mission have been, and that they're on every show and everybody. And they are so likable. And they are such good people, and they're so serious about their work. And what they did was so heroic. And we can feel good about them. And, and and we're just Trump is so toxic.

He is constantly pissing into the well of our lives, and people are looking. for something to give them relief and to feel better about themselves. And I actually think this is going to dry it drive the elections. I was listening to Texas Senate candidate James Talarico over the weekend, and I was like, yeah, you know, the more I listen, the more I get it. He makes people feel good about themselves. again, and the astronauts make us feel good about themselves again.

And if The Devil Wears Prada two God, $277 million. or whatever it's worldwide box office was, it was because people want something to. to just divert themselves and to laugh a little bit. And, and I don't think we should underestimate that, that the, the the sense of grossness, the sense, you know, I do my work, I go to Washington, I come home, I want to take a shower. because Trump and and the people around him are so gross.

And and every once in a while, there's a little pin. pinpoint of light and it's like, oh, yeah, that's what we used to be, or that's what we use to aspire to, or that's still possible. And, and and I don't know, I'm I'm feeling a little hopeful today. Joanna. I'm glad you're feeling hopeful. And I will say I'm now going through a family health crisis. I'm in my childhood home, and I cannot tell you how many people have.

written to me, how people, how many people have commented on, on YouTube with their own stories and just sending support. And you realize that actually the majority of people, by far. the majority of people are good. They want to put good vibes out there. They want to connect with people. We are all going through things, and this unpleasant discourse. that is emanating from the Trump White House shouldn't. poison everything, and the toxicity shouldn't spread everywhere.

And we should cease fun where we can. Well, yes, there is hope and the majority of people. are good and the majority of Americans are good. And in the past, I think you know where Trump and the others win is. When some of those people say this isn't relevant, politics isn't relevant to me. I'm not being engaged. And I think they've seen that they need to step up right now. And I think, you know, I'm hopeful that they are going to do that.

And and, you know, this period, I don't think we fully recognized. the darkness of the period we've just been through. because it's not just Trump, but there was also Covid. And and that was extremely grim for, for for all of us. And, and we still haven't done the postmortem on how that's. changed the world. But this decade of Trump and Covid. has been a. decade in which there has been a burden on us all.

And I think there is an opportunity now, and there is even. some signs of hope that that dark cloud may lift. Okay. That's totally a hopeful note on which to end on David. We will get together, God willing, next Monday. Who knows what will have happened by then. But it is always good to talk to you and I love that we ended on a note. of optimism. Me too. And I think that's Monday. If I get the chance and you're there, I'll.

We'll be together in the same room for the podcast. Oh. That will be fun. Well, I very much hope so. It's not clear to me that I'll be back by then, but let's hope. Well, I hope so. And I certainly join everybody else in wishing your family. the best, and hopefully this will come out in the best way possible. Thank you. If you have been, thank you for joining us. And a big thanks to Devon, Roger Renaud, who's been our producer for the last year. and who is now leaving. Us, he's going to the US sun, so we wish him the best of luck there.

And our team. Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Pissarro and Neil Rosenhaus.