Trump Chaos Hits a Breaking Point | The Daily Beast Podcast

Bill policy is the worst appointment. Trump has ever made. He has no intelligence experience. He is purely being picked. because he will do exactly. what Trump says. And Trump wants him there. because he thinks that. the Intel community. can help him invalidate. upcoming elections, which is his main job. Vladimir Putin, If he sat with his generals. in the planning room at the Kremlin,

could not come up. with a way. to do more damage. to America's. national security. than Donald Trump. has done in the first year. and a half of this presidency. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. Who better to start the week. with, of course, than the New York Knicks? No, just kidding. I'm talking about David Rothkopf, our global affairs. editor, who's got very strong feelings. about the appointment.

as acting director of the Office. of National Intelligence of Bill Pulte. David Rothkopf has been talking. to his sources. in the intelligence community. And it's really terrifying. what they're saying about the damage. that Bill Pulte can do between now. and the election. And he doesn't even need. to be confirmed by the Senate, which is the normal practice. for this job. He's remaining as acting director, which still gives him. an enormous amount of leeway. We also get into Scott Pelley. and 60 minutes.

Why did Trump's storm off Kristen Welker. set for Meet the Press? And well, we also get into the Knicks. and what's going to happen. at the garden tonight. And happily I'm going. I'm very excited. Anyway, please don't forget to support. independent media. That's us. by pressing the subscription button. wherever you get your podcasts. And no more time to waste. Let's get into it with David Rothkopf.

David Rothkopf. Joanna Coles. The week leading up to Donald Trump's. ninth decade. Oh boy, what a celebration that'll be. What a celebration. The only celebration. I could imagine that would be bigger. is if he didn't make it. David Rothkopf, what a way to start. So I wanted to start. with an excellent column. You have written this morning. talking about a war that Donald Trump.

actually is winning. We're going to. come on and talk about Iran. We're going to talk about the marches. through the streets. of Albania against Ivanka and Jared's. $2 billion island development. We're going to talk about. what happened. when Trump stormed off. Meet the Press on NBC. We're going to talk about Scott Pelley. breaking down and weeping. for the future of 60 minutes. But before we do, I want to talk about the. the war that you say Trump is winning.

Well, look, you know, I mean, if you measure success in a war, you have to measure the degree. to which you have debilitated. or degraded your enemy. And in this particular war, Trump has destroyed. the national security. capability of the enemy, destroyed. the economy of the enemy, destroyed the unity of the enemy, destroyed the. international alliances of the enemy,

and helped the adversaries of the enemy. Of course, the problem is the enemy. he is. is beating on a regular basis, even as he can't manage. to make a dent on foreign enemies is us. And and you know, it's not a small thing, but let's just take one area. The area that I know best. Let's just take national security, because that typically is something. that people find important, right? One of the most important jobs. the president has. is keeping the country safe.

So what's his record? Well, he shut down. the National Security Council. Effectively. It doesn't really exist anymore. He put a lackey in charge. of the Department of Defense. They immediately made it. the least transparent. Department of Defense ever. They cut vital programs. within the Department of Defense. that protected us against. foreign adversaries. They fired generals. because they were women. or people of color. or people who didn't disagree with him.

So essentially, he decapitated our military, and they have said that they will. only, you know, put it in charge. People who go along. with the impulse driven, lousy. defense policies of Trump and said. Well, can I just interrupt your flow. for one second to throw in? Because I really want your opinion. on this and the sources that you talk to. And they put Bill Pulte in. to run the National Intelligence Office.

So here is Bill Pulte. Now, Donald Trump has made. some really, really bad appointments in the history. of his two presidencies. Right. Some of the worst people, you know, he put a guy in charge of the NSC first, Michael Flynn, who lasted 21 days. and was then convicted of crimes. He's got RFK Jr. He's got all the people. he's fired. this time around, including Bill. predecessor Tulsi Gabbard. And still, when I talk to people.

in the national security community. or when you see the. the petitions. that have been circulated, there is a consensus bill. is the worst appointment. Trump has ever made. because he has absolutely zero experience. in intelligence, something even Marco Rubio, the. but kisser. of all time, acknowledged. he has no intelligence experience.

He is purely being picked. because he will do exactly. what Trump says. He has already. used his tiny little post in mortgages. to try to cook up. cases against opponents of Trump, and Trump. wants him there. because he thinks that. the Intel community. can help him invalidate. upcoming elections, which is his main job. And he also thinks he can help him go.

after his adversaries, possibly thinks he can help him. shred information. that might be incriminating to Trump. But when I talk to people at the CIA, when I talk to people. who are formerly at the director. of National intelligence people, I spoke to somebody from the Dia. over the weekend. They are outraged. They are outraged. There are very few jobs. in the US government. where there is a specific. experience requirement. written into the job description,

written into the legislation. creating the job. But the director. of National intelligence job. is considered so important. that it's written in and Pulte. doesn't meet the grade. So that's why he is acting. But, you know, Trump did an interview. a couple days ago. in which he was asked, what's policies job? And Trump said. one of his primary jobs is gutting. the director of national intelligence.

and the other intelligence agencies. So he gets the NSC, he gets the Department of Defense, he decapitates it. He's gutting the intelligence agencies. He has attacked the alliances. that are the foundation. of international stability and strength. For the past 80 years, he has embraced our enemies. He is putting crazy programs. in the defense budget, including hundreds of millions of dollars. to his own sons companies.

And, you know, add it all up. No, Vladimir Putin, if he sat with his generals. in the planning room at the Kremlin, could not come up. with a way. to do more damage. to America's national security. than Donald Trump. has done in the first year. and a half of this presidency. And so that's what. I mean by winning the war. But I could make the same case. on the economy. I could make the same case. on the environment.

I could make the same case. on social services. I could make the same case. on social unity. in the United States, or on health. care in the United States, or on the environment. So, you know, across the board. The only thing Donald Trump. has successfully doing. is making the United States weaker. and at greater risk. I want to read from your column. because I think. I love that. Well, I thought you might do. I thought you might do,

but you have. you have an in it for Americans. And you start by saying, why did. tens of thousands of Albanians. take to the streets. to protest a corrupt land. For 4 million Albanians? Okay, 4 million. Albanians, which is substantially larger. than Donald Trump's inauguration crowds? Let's just remember that. Why do Ukrainians fight Trump's. Russian allies, even though the odds are against them? And even though the cost in life,

human suffering and economic. terms are immeasurably. high, while Americans passively. accept the far. greater threat. that Trump poses to our national security. and that of our allies. And then you say, snap out of it, America. Give yourself a good, hard. slap across the face. Douse yourself with ice water. Wake the f up. Are people not aware of what's going on? Are we just exhausted by the flat. flooding the zone? Do you think the. No Kings protest,

which have been called. for Donald. Trump's birthday. next Sunday, June the 14th? Will any of that make any difference? I think it makes a difference. I just don't understand. why it's not happening every day. I don't understand. why the streets of Washington. are not filled with protesters. as he. defacing and defiles. Washington and undermines. each one of the institutions. on which the city is built in. the country, is built. I don't understand why, when he is demonstrably in decline,

a demented posting crazy things. all night long, depicting himself as Jesus, or. as some half naked football. God surrounded by cheering, half naked other guys. Which is a kind of interesting thing. But, you know, I mean, this guy is out of his mind. He's in his decline. He is the most corrupt. president in American history, is destroying our institutions. He's making us weaker.

He's putting millions. and millions of Americans, not just at national security risk, but at risk of disease. New diseases are breaking out. because those shut the programs down. We didn't get early warning on Ebola. Screw worm is, you know, wreaking havoc. and terrifying farmers in the. in the southern parts. of the United States. It was eradicated. But it's back I can in area after area.

say this guy is putting us a deeper. and deeper risk all the time. And Americans were pretty comfortable, you know, the gas prices up. We may want to complain about that. And yes, there are tens of millions of Americans. who are struggling. But for 360 million Americans, most of 300 million of those are going, yeah, this is really a bummer. And change the channel. I want to watch the Knicks game. tonight or, oh, the World Cup is starting. or whatever the fuck they're doing, and they're going, I'll vote. Well, I got news for you.

Donald Trump is absolutely committed. to stealing the vote in November. The reason. and you may want to talk. about this later. He he. he got into a fight with Kristen. Welker on Meet the Press. Is he had one talking. point and his brain can. barely handle two. And he just went at it. over and over and over again. And the talking point was. California elections are rigged. Elections in. the United States are rigged. You don't understand it, I understand it. Why is he saying that? It's not just because.

he's got an open wound about 2020. It's not looking backwards. It's looking forward. It's his argument that we shouldn't. trust the results in November, that we shouldn't. trust elections in 2028, that we should question them, and that he will have. his Department of Justice. and his director of National intelligence. and his entire administration saying, oh, there's a question about this. We have to freeze the result of,

oh my goodness, this guy has got some problem. in his background. We're going to have to look into that. more deeply, or we better deploy troops. to keep people from showing up. at this election site. And so, you know, he's done. all these other attacks, and now he is about to try to do, really, the coup de grace. on our democracy. And, and, and we're watching TV. and going to the beach. and I just don't understand it. Okay. So let me ask you something. Bill Pulte is,

by all accounts, unlikely to get ratified. by the Senate. Right? He's got 210 days where he can be. the acting director of. of the Office of National Intelligence. How much damage can he do in that time? Well, the elections. are within the next 210 days. So, you know, the answer is a lot. All he has to do is dig up. this old conspiracy theory. that Trump had Tulsi Gabbard. nosing around in, in Atlanta.

a few weeks ago and say, oh yeah, there was foreign interference. I'm sorry, but the intelligence, we can't tell you what. the foreign interference was. We're doing an investigation, but these results are questionable, and we're going to have to lock down. all the election results, and you're going to have to. give us all of your ballots, and we're going to have to take control. of all of your election machinery. as part of a national. security investigation. That Bill Pulte can do that.

Bill Pulte. can fire the people. in the intelligence community. and all the many, many agencies. of the intelligence community. who actually believe that Trump has ties. that are too close. with Russia, that the Russians. are trying to help Trump. He can get rid of those people. He can get rid of those files. He can go. after people who he believes have. perhaps mishandled intelligence,

you know, in the way. that Trump was accused of doing it. We saw the John Bolton case last week. There are a lot of things. he can do. to attack Trump's. enemies, to protect Trump and. and to attack our elections, and that's what. we should be worried about. He can do a lot of damage in over. half a year. He's gotten the job. Well, and we know that Trump has instructed him. to start firing people. And he says, really, this office doesn't, which was created. after nine over.

11 to make. sure that the intelligence agencies. and I think it oversees 18. intelligence agencies, share material. because they were all working in silos. And it looked in the postmortem. after nine over 11. as if they'd actually shared information. They might. have had. a greater warning. about what was going to happen. Let me just ask you something, David. Do people. in the intelligence services. that you speak to, do they actually think that Trump. is working with the Russians? Like what's in it for Trump?

I understand. a corruption. and I understand disruption, but but what's in it. for Donald. Trump to be allying with Russia? Okay. I mean, you know, this is kind of the, you know, the the the first question. about Trump, right? I mean, because he, in his 2016. campaign said, Russia, if you're listing, you know, do this. Release Hillary Clinton's emails. Right. And his team met with the Russians. And, you know,

we do have a lot of investigative work. that was done by Mueller. And, you know, people say, well, Mueller. exonerated Trump. He didn't. Mueller said that. there was a lot of coordination. between Trump and the Russians. He substantiated it. He substantiated. that there were many cases. of obstruction of justice, of Trump. trying to block the investigations. Comey did further investigations there. There is a lot of evidence. that they work together now. You know, there are a lot of people.

with different theories. Some people go, oh, he is an active agent, or they have compromised on him. That's not the majority of you. The majority view is Trump. thinks being close. to Putin helps him, and Putin thinks. having Trump on a string helps him. And these are two people. following experiences. Where do I think the truth is, I think it lies somewhere in between. I think that the coordination. between Trump. and Putin, the times that he has done.

Putin's bidding, the, the, the times that Wycoff has done. Putin's bidding. or Jared has done Putin's. bidding or Donald has done. Trump has people over at the. the Saint Petersburg economic conference. that was been taking place. the past few days in Russia. Now, even though Putin is a war criminal. who is leading a war of aggression. against a country. that is defending Europe and democracy,

which is to say, Ukraine. So. my sense is it's been too close. I remember Trump. first instance of mishandling. intelligence was a visit in May of. of 2017. to the Oval Office. of the Russian ambassador and the Russian. foreign minister, when Trump gave them classified. intelligence that came to us. from the Israelis.

And this is a matter of public record. Who why was Flynn. fired at the beginning of the last term? Because he was coordinating. with the Russian ambassador. You know, the fast forward to now, you know, when when Wyckoff. is supposedly negotiating. an end to the war in Ukraine. What does Trump do? You know, who does Wyckoff believe? Wyckoff says, oh, I think Putin is right. Trump says, I think Putin is right. He cuts off the funding to Ukraine,

and then he attacks NATO, the principal bulwark. of our defense against Russia. I mean, it almost doesn't matter. why he is doing it. If if you were a Russian agent. and you were hired by Vladimir Putin. and you spoke to him. every night. and he said, here's. what you should do to weaken. the United States, you would be doing exactly. what Donald Trump is doing. Except.

I don't think they'd ever be so brazen. as to ask for the sweeping attack. that Trump has made. on our national security apparatus. and on our country. in a way that benefits Russia. It is astonishing. And I was thinking that this, as Donald. Trump has been comparing himself to, to sort of legendary figures in history, how one man. seems to have the entire country. in its thrall,

and now he appears to. have the entire world in its thrall. What is nevertheless. the latest of what's going on in the war, that he hasn't yet managed to even create. a permanent ceasefire with with Iran. So, David, what is the latest in the war on Iran? We know he's gotten into it. with Bibi. Netanyahu's, who's continued to. bomb Lebanon. The Iranians have responded. as we're. recording this on Monday morning.

The Iranians have said. they're going to take a break in bombing. What is going on? Do we think. Look, Donald. Trump has no more control over the war. in Iran. or over. Israel than he has over his own bladder. Okay. You know, unfortunately. Very strange analogy, very strange. Well, I don't know if it is or not, but. but I do think that we are all, you know, suffering from the fact. that depends. does not make a version of its product.

to take care of foreign policy accidents, because what is going on in Iran. is a foreign policy mistake. that Trump immediately lost control. of from the outset. And, you know, frankly, many people warned that. that's exactly what would happen. And yesterday. you have this perfect example of it. As it happens, the story broke that Trump.

said, I'm in control of this, and I've spoken to. Bebe, and Bebe will do what I would say. in a conversation. he had with my friend and. my colleague on my daily. Deep State Radio. podcast editor, loose Financial Times. and Atlas called him up as, as as people do on Sundays. They call up Trump on Sundays. and he answers. And Trump said, oh yeah, I'm in control. And three hours later, Israel wants to mass massive attacks. on multiple cities in Iran.

And then Iran responded. with massive attacks on Israel. that included, by the way, worrisome Lee, a Houthi attack, a missile launch from Yemen at Israel, which is to bringing. more of Iranian proxies into this deal. And, you know, now, you know, Trump woke up this morning. and he was like, oh, crap. If I don't put a lid on this, the markets are going to go crazy. And that's what I really care about. So he puts out. a true social post saying,

I talked to Bibi. Everything's going to be fine. And the Israelis. said, yeah, okay, everything's going to be fine, but it's not going to be fine. because Israel is trying to chop up. a piece of Lebanon. and hold it for its own. The negotiations with Lebanon. are not with Hezbollah. Who is the adversary. there with the Lebanese government, which doesn't. and has not ever controlled Hezbollah. It's just like the negotiations. with Gaza. Remember, we were going to have peace in Gaza. That doesn't seem any closer. And the Iranians realize,

and I've seen a number of pieces. of reporting that support this, that they can do anything. And Trump is not going to go back. to a massive war with them. because it's so unpopular, because he lacks. the political will here. in the United States. to follow through with that. And so they feel. they can poke the bear all day long. And frankly, what with what's happened. in the Strait of Hormuz, what's with. what has happened. when Iran has attacked. our friends and allies in the region?

It's their right. They have a lot of leverage. And so Israel is not going to do. what we're going to say. Iran's not doing what we're going to say. Our allies. don't know who to trust anymore. And so this is an open wound. It's festering. And I don't think there's. any reason to expect. that this is going to be resolved. in a real way for months, if not years. And also, what's fascinating. is that so many presidents. have refused to do this very war.

because they anticipated exactly. what's come to pass. And yet Trump feels that he is somehow. smarter than previous. presidents, that having fired. all the experts on Iran, that he knew better, knowing. nothing about Iran as it as it turns out, and also falling. for for the first thing. that everybody assumed. Iran would do, which is to close the Strait of Hormuz. I mean, they,

as far as I can see from this war. that he started, the Iranians are in a. far stronger position. than they were before the war. Certainly there in a stronger position. Look, I mean, I think, you know, we look at Trump. and we say, well, he's the most corrupt. president ever, or he's a racist or he's a misogynist, or he's not super competent. at running the US government, or he's had a lot of bankruptcies. or he's a serial sex offender. There are a lot of things. we can say about it, but I think. one thing that we should keep in mind.

is that Trump is an idiot and, you know, he's an arrogant idiot. and he does not understand. his own limitations. And so when he says, well, no American president has attacked Iran. in 47 years, I'm. the only one that's doing that. It's exactly like saying no American. president has jumped off. the Empire State Building. because he thought he could fly. Yeah, totally. I mean, no.

That's that's a very good that's. A very good metaphor. Oh, lordy. It's it's so chaotic, isn't it? It just does feel alarming. And it is also. when you look back over history, you think, well, how could Stalin. have had such a grip. and such a terrible impact? How could Hitler have done that? And yet we seem to be, as. I said earlier, in thrall. to a single man. You know, I think, you know, those are examples. But there are other examples in history. that are also closer.

The sort of Mad King examples. There are people who are nitwits. who ran countries. or, you know, George. the Third had porphyria and his mind was, you know, decaying in a, you know, a. super chemicals. And he was not saying. when he was doing this, but, you know, you know, from the emperor Commodus in Rome. who dressed up and went around. wearing a lion outfit. and would go and fight. in the Colosseum against, you know, gladiators. that were holding sticks.

while he held swords. just in order to glorify himself. There have been a lot of people. in history. who gained a lot of power, who were cracked, who were, you know, but they were so ambitious. that they actually ascended. to this position of power because nobody, you know, I mean, that's what it takes, right, to be president, to be Stalin, to be Hitler, you have to have a level of ambition. most of us will never understand. Right? You can't even imagine it.

No, I think actually wanting. to be president of the United States. is a kind of a disease. It is a pathology. You have to. Even the presidents we like. Or so desperate. I was in the Clinton minister. I saw Bill Clinton up close. I think Bill Clinton, on some levels. wanted good things for the United States, although he's a deeply flawed person. But he was so desperate. to be liked and loved in every room. he entered. Was it the death of his father.

or his mother, or some problem in his? I don't know what it was, but but the reality is. it was pathological, his need to be liked. and and that, you know, drives people to be president. unless you're handed it. like George W Bush, because you're. the heir to the air, you know, you've got to fight for it. And that's what. that's what. a lot of these people have done. And that's why you end up. with people who are broken. in leadership positions, because wanting to be in the leadership.

position is kind of a sign of a problem. How would we ever get leadership, I suppose? Well, but, you know, it's the 250th anniversary. of the founding of the United States. and what the founders. of the United States. concluded was that. no one should have that much power, and that you need a government. where there are multiple branches. and their checks and balances, and that the people have some power. on a on a. proportional basis. and some power. on a geographically allocated basis.

And there's some power in one house. and some power. in the other House of Congress. and some power in the courts, and that the president's. powers are limited and so forth. The whole idea of the United States. is to limit the power of the president. and to make the president. subordinate to the people. And Trump is tossing that out. And that's the danger. The danger. is, in the 250th. anniversary of the founding. of this country,

Trump is becoming. exactly. the kind of leader. that the founders feared the most. Oh, David, it's sobering stuff. So. So what do we make of the two big. media stories over the weekend. that put, of course, Trump. in contention with the fake news, as he calls it. But if he really thinks his fake news, then why does he sit down. and do interviews? Because he loves it. Because he loves storming out of the Meet. the Press interview with Kristen Welker,

where he's already been. interrogated by her for 50 minutes. Because it's drama, right? What changed? The headlines. storming out of Meet the Press? He's he's. so desperate. to be the center of attention. It goes back to, you know, what's his particular pathology? If he were ever convicted of a court, they wouldn't have to throw him in jail. They would just have to say. that no reporter. could get. within half a mile of him, and he would shrivel up and die, because all of a sudden he would feel.

no one was paying attention. and he wasn't important anymore. And therefore, you know, he was not making up for the fact. that his mother didn't like him. But but whatever, you know, whatever it is that drives. him, it's crazy. And yet he can't seem to get the media, despite having his friends buy up. big chunks of it. to behave exactly the way he wants. And it does make him a little nuts. But don't you think he probably went. into that interview. thinking, at some point. I'm going to walk out? First of all, let's.

just describe the scene. because it was in Wisconsin. Trump has had a substantial. ding to his popularity. in the farming communities. Fertilizers gone up massively in price. because of the war. and the added price of gas, obviously. So he's probably feeling a bit insecure. out there. You saw him making strange comments. about some of the people. that he was meeting. in the farming community couple, including a couple of guys, one of whom was an Olympian. He was a speed.

skater, Olympian, winner, gave one of his medals, put it round Trump's neck. And Trump, of course, said, well, I'm going to keep it. I love this, I'm going to keep it. I think it's gold. And then he. stormed out after. 50 minutes, admittedly, of the. of a Kristen Welker interview. which was taking place in a barn, it felt very sort of strange. There were bales of straw everywhere. There was a tractor in the background. I mean, it was a very strange setup. They had two chairs facing each other, which I always think. is an uncomfortable setup,

although I know. American networks love it. And then she was quizzing him on. Well, she was asking him for evidence. for his allegations. that California election was rigged, the gubernatorial election, which we still don't have an answer to. And then he just sort of ripped off. his microphone, stormed out and said, thanks, darling, on the way out, and sort of patted her on the on the arm. And I thought, oh, he's been planning. to do this all along. This is just another grab for attention. Look, I watched it a couple of times.

I read the transcript. I don't agree with you. I think he lost it. I don't think he. is is capable of. controlling his emotions. We've seen this in instance. after instance. when he has press meetings, when he has public meetings. and it's actually getting worse. He he he can't control what he says. He uses extreme language. Of course, one of the big. driving elements. of of his being is misogyny.

And he attacks. women reporters all the time. And if he can attack a woman of color. Reporter oh, well, that's even better. And he calls them stupid. Or he complains that Caitlin Collins. isn't smiling enough, or he calls them corrupt. And, you know, that's that's what happened here. And you look at his face, I mean, they're on the internet now. They're all these pictures of his face. and it's. it's it's it's all twisted and warped, and it looks like a man who's. absolutely losing his mind.

because she kept saying, well, there's no evidence. That's all she said. There is no evidence. what you're supporting. And this made him crazy. And frankly, I saw his his niece, Mary Trump, who was on our podcast, my Deep State radio. broadcast last week and and, you know, and I know. that she has appeared with you before. And Mary said. On our podcast yesterday. Okay, well, there you go. Well, I don't know if she said this. on the podcast yesterday, but she has said multiple times.

since this is the time. that every reporter should do this. Every reporter should be going in. He should always be fact check. And you know, this gets to your core story, which is of course, that's what they should be doing. The real story is that they don't. The real story. is that the Washington. correspondence has said. white House. Correspondents Association has agreed. to do the white House. Correspondents Dinner over again in. July because the president wanted it, because he wants to have a chance.

to stand up at a stage. and make fun of them. And because they're so desperate. for access. and kissing his ass that they said, yeah, okay, we'll do that when he I mean, it's. Well held on a minute. to defend the white House. Correspondents Association for a moment. The point of that dinner. is to raise money to support younger. trainee correspondence. who want to cover the president. and this utility, a comedian who roasts the president. This time they have a mind reader, right?

I don't know if he's coming back. because he's clearly not very good. because he didn't, you know, anticipate. what happened at the last dinner. Come on. Come. Come on. Yeah, right. Worst mind reader in history. Right. Well, but we're psychic. Ever. But, but, but but let's let's be honest. The real purpose. of the white House Correspondents. Association is to promote, as they say, in all of their documents, the First Amendment. No one. in the history of the United States.

has attacked. the First Amendment. in more ways, limited access of reporters in more ways. in the Pentagon, in the white House, getting rid of legitimate. reporters, putting in, you know, the Pillow Guy's. TV network instead only responding to, you know, softball requests from Maria Bartiromo. and other, you know, trained seals over at Fox. and, and. and and then they're saying, yeah, let's invite this guy.

We won't roast him. because it would offend him. And and, you know, he's getting on there in years. Let's not offend the poor guy. Let's invite this guy. and create this dinner around the person. who's the biggest enemy. of the First Amendment. and freedom of the press ever. And if you don't believe it, let's invite. the head of the FCC. that is trying to silence TV networks. And if you don't believe it, let's have David Ellison, the son of the Ellison's. who bought CBS and has shut down,

you know, the legitimate newsgathering functions. within CBS news. and wants to do the same thing for CNN. Let's have him by a table. Let's have him throw a party. So what would you have them do, just not invite Trump? How about doing their jobs? That's what I'd have them do. I'd have them challenge Trump in the way. Kristen Welker did on everything. Every time he's lies. Say, I'm sorry, Mr. President. Do you have evidence for that or Mr. President, the facts. say something different. because my job is to get to the truth.

It's not to make the president. of the United States feel all comfy. Well, I should also point out. that the white House. Correspondents Dinner last year canceled. Amber Ruffin. Do you remember? She was the comedian, in fact, due to comments. that she made on the Daily. Beast podcast, that seemed to me. not a good sign for them. Well, it's an interesting debate. Should they invite the president or not? Should they invite the president or not? All right. So so another man. who was struggling. with his emotions over the weekend.

was Scott Pelley, veteran 60 minutes correspondent, who gave a remarkable interview. to the New York Times Daily podcast. Scott, we're available. We'd love to talk to you. about what's happening at 60 minutes, which is that. the leadership. team were fired after. a stellar year there. Their. viewership is 9%. They just won two Emmy Awards. And the leadership. team, the executive producer, Tanya Simon,

and 60% of. their correspondents were fired. Well, it's. because we know it's going on there. Barry Weiss, who is a tool. who was put in charge of CBS. news, was put in charge. of CBS news. in order to make it more comfortable. for Trump and more comfortable. for the right, which really means more comfortable. for really rich people. to get their agenda through. and to advance any. political agenda that keeps them in power. and to turn off the criticism. that they're getting.

And, you know, she was put in. and that's why she changed. what's going on at CBS Nightly News. And that's why these people have left. And that's why, you know, Scott Pelley ultimately got canned. because he had the audacity. to stand up and say, this TV. show has stood for editorial independence. throughout its many decades. of illustrious history. And we can't allow you to do this. And of course, they said, well, you know, he can't stay here.

This is not the kind of person. that we want. And, you know, a couple of his colleagues. then said, well, we'll stay, we'll stay and fight, which I thought was weak. This was the email. put out by Lesley Stahl. saying that they devalued the situation. and they decided to stay. because they wanted. to keep the show on the air. Do you think 60 minutes survives? No, not not in this form. unless they take it someplace else. If I were Scott Pelley and Lesley Stahl. and all these other people, I would go to YouTube or I'd go to NBC.

or I'd go someplace else. and I'd say a woman. to keep 60 minutes going. It doesn't have to, you know, if then CBS says, well, we own it, that what it's called, then we'll say, you know, 59 minutes is on the air now, and we'll go. and we'll do whatever the show is, someplace where they're allowed. to actually do journalism. And, you know, Scott Pelley, you know, more power to him. But frankly, this has been happening. for months there. You know, Stephen Colbert is off there. Why? Because he made jokes that made our skin.

thin skinned, mad king. in charge of our country unhappy. He didn't like the jokes, though. They shut down the number. one show in late night television. because censorship, 60 minutes. Censorship. It's blocking the press. from going to the Pentagon to cover it. Censorship. Last week, they made the press office. in the Pentagon.

a classified space, which means you can't just walk into it. You need an escort to go into it. Censorship that kicked people. out of the white House press pool. Censorship. They don't let them on the plane. They don't let them ask questions. Stephen Chung, on a regular basis, attacks. the Daily Beast. Why? Because he's trying to. intimidate the press, and they actually think. it's a good look for them. because they are going to make the press. the villain. But what they're really doing is.

they're saying the truth doesn't matter. Believe what we say. Don't believe what you see. with your own eyes. And it's a real crisis. in American journalism. And frankly, to go back to the point. about the founders, you know, Thomas Jefferson said, if I had a choice between, you know, the kind of government. we've got in a free. press, I'll take the free press, because that's. what makes the country work. There got to be places. that are willing. to tell the truth. and take their lumps and, and, and, and.

and frankly, Scott Pelley. was willing to do that. And and and Kristen. Welker. who's not always willing to do that. did it. Credit to her. and we should see more of it. And frankly, I don't think Trump can handle it. in his precipitous decline. You know, I he's too fragile right now. And I think the more he's challenged, the more he's going to lose it. And. that's in the interest of the US.

There's so many points to. to come back to you on there. I guess my first one is. I mean, Scott. Pelley does have the opportunity. now to go, as you said, to YouTube, or he has the opportunity to. go to Substack. There are plenty of places. for Scott Pelley to go and to talk. I mean, independent journalists are are, are working. furiously hard across. all these new platforms. Is this actually a sort of tech. structural change? We're seeing.

a long alongside the intimidation. by the administration. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, it's a good thing. In fact, I think there's. a kind of an irony. that you've got all these tech. gurus who have billions of dollars. buying up media outlets, whether it's X. or the Los Angeles. Times or it's The Washington. Post or it's CBS, at precisely the moment. that those platforms are in precipitous. decline themselves. And the why are they in decline?

Because we now. have a much more distributed. information system. that plays off of our many networks. That I mean by networks, I don't mean television networks. I mean, you know, internet. based networks. that that that allow individuals. with a microphone. and with a camera on their, on their computer. or with a. just a cell phone held in their hands. to go out and provide. content and reach audiences. and have an impact. And, you know, sometimes we joke here,

you know, about how many podcasts. there are out there. Everybody's going to cast in America. Well, you know, that's not such a bad thing. You don't have to watch them all. The reality is we need many platforms. We need many witnesses. Everybody with a cell phone. Every time a bad thing happens. in the streets of America, what happens? There's a guy with a cell phone. who's recording it up. It goes instantly online. And that's a that's a really good thing. And so, you know, yes, the people under 30.

don't get their news from TV or radio. or newspapers anymore. And so they miss some of the benefits. of having an editor and, you know, having. a real journalistic organization. provide them with that stuff. But on the other hand, that ship has sailed, right. And, and, and the media habits of the group. that the. you know, as we've said here before, in 2028,

the majority of voters will. be born since 1990. That means the majority of voters. have never lived without the internet, without a smartphone. That's where they get their news. That's how they connect with each other. And and frankly, all these organizations. have to adapt. That's why, you know, you mentioned the New York Times and. millions of people see The New York Times. today as the daily, as their podcast.

It's just that focused. That because the times. for all of their gray lady boring this. and their own arrogance, the times has made. a pretty good adjustment. to providing content and video. and providing content. and online and shifting away from what. it used to be. to being kind of a leading edge. news organization of tomorrow. Right? And I would say our own numbers. on the Daily Beast podcast. for certain episodes. certainly outnumber.

lots of the television. shows on, on cable news. So there is a sort of structural shift. The point is they become popular. They get hundreds of thousands of viewers. multiple times a week. They have much bigger impact. than a lot of the articles. Little clips. from them end up on YouTube. shorts or on Instagram. Much bigger sort of ancillary impact. And that's how the world is working. And you guys are adapting to it. and others are not. Well.

You have your own, you have your own radio. network, Deep State Radio. But listen, before we go, I wanted to ask you for your thoughts on. What you should wear. to the next game tonight. Oh I wasn't. What should I wear. to the next game tonight? I've become a new a new Knicks. fan in the last year. and I don't know what to go. I just wear jeans and a t shirt, but it doesn't feel well. How do you feel? You mean that you've got, first of all, jeans and a t shirt? That's what you always were. That's what you should wear.

Is it what you should wear? It's not quite me. Only jeans and a T-shirt. Every time I see you wearing. a blazer and a t shirt. So we're a blazer and a Knicks t shirt. You know I can't do that. I could never wear a sports t shirt. I just couldn't do it. The only disadvantage. of going to tonight's. game is because Donald Trump is going. It's you've got to get there. two hours early. So it's a bit like checking in. for an international. Flight, but it's also look, the cheapest seat. in that arena is $10,000. I actually think this is an issue.

And I think it's going to. be a story tonight. Donald Trump is pals with Dolan, the head of the Madison MSG, the guy who owns the Knicks. and also like the Sphere in Las Vegas. and whatever. Right. And so he's invited to this, which is gross. because he's trying to upstage it. And the street party. that was happening in New York. every time these games were played. were thousands of people. gathered outside the garden. because they couldn't get in. and watched it on a big screen.

Well, they couldn't get in. because the games weren't there, right? The games were in San Antonio. So the last two games where they've had. parties, spontaneous parties outside. MSG is because the teams weren't playing. Well, but also in the prior games. that have been played there in the in the. conference finals and so forth. They were there and they're partying. And this it's it's. the great thing about what's happening. with the Knicks. in New York City. is it's infected everybody. And because Trump is there,

they've now said they can't do that. outside the garden, even though the average person. can't get into the garden. because the tickets are so expensive. And so Trump is, is is doing. what made him the most reviled New Yorker. ever. There's no. I heard. Rosie O'Donnell say it, but nobody who lived in New York. for the past. 40 years. thinks of Donald Trump. is anything but a selfish asshole. And here he is, being a selfish asshole, spoiling this wonderful moment. for the city.

And and I think there's going to be. some reaction to that. whether you are going to. are you going to boo him. when they all start to boo Trump? What are you just. do you say, I'm a journalist? I must remain objective here. I'm just interested to observe the scene. I'm there for the game. I'm not there for Donald Trump. I'm there for the game. Great. Well, you should enjoy the game, but I think. And that's what everybody should enjoy. But I think Donald. Trump is going to upstage it.

And I think it's ugly. And so. I think Donald Trump is desperate. for ratings. Right. And he understands. that the attention of the nation. is going to be on that particular game. So he wants to be there. And I think they've moved the party. to central part, the watch party. Well, I hope they marched down. Seventh Avenue. and plant themselves. as close to the garden as they can. I hope they send a message. And by the way, you know. who's been great at this? Zoran Mamdani. You know. who is a genuine Knicks fan, who sat up in the nosebleed seats. and who is able to sort of capture.

the zeitgeist, this feeling. that something great. is happening in New York now, they could lose. But but you know, I have been a mixed fan. since I was a little kid. They haven't won. a title in half a century. It's a long time. It's 53 years. And sadly, I remember when they went. and and I got to tell you something, it's. incredibly exciting. if you've sort of gone. through all the years of this and,

and New York makes a party. feel like a party. And so, you know, I hope you have a good time. I'm sure you'll come up with the. right t shirt. I think the answer for you is. a blue streak. and an orange streak in your hair. It's never going to happen. It's never going to happen. I might go as far as a wristband. I might. Go when you. When when you were like, young punk rocker. You didn't have a streak in your hair. Look what I have here, David.

Look what I have here. Two little tasteful wrist bracelets. Yeah. That's good. That's going to be as far as it goes. That's my. that's my nod to Nick's wearability. All right, so my final question. my final question is. is about Graham Plattner. Actually we haven't discussed. Graham Plattner. And he held a town hall at the weekend. to talk. about the various domestic accusations. that The New York Times ran.

last week, with various girlfriends. saying that they'd found. relationships with him. unsettling and over over wrenching. or emotionally wrenching, which I thought. were all my relationships. I could describe all of them like that. What is the point. of having a relationship. if it's not, at some point, emotionally wrenching? Well, do they have. do they have to involve abuse of sexting? Come on, come on, let's do it. Was this sexting? I'm not normalizing it. I'm just saying that he held a town. hall on Saturday to address it,

and he was open to questions, and nobody asked him a question about it. Nobody asked him a question about it. They all asked him about questions. about the economy and national security. Nobody asked him about his personal. Life that wasn't orchestrated. Look, this is such a sensitive area. because there's so many invested parties. in this thing. and all of my progressive friends, they're out there and like, how dare you pick on Plattner? He's the only way that we can beat. Susan Collins. Well, first of all, that's nonsense.

Well, it's. not nonsense. in terms of the primary is urgent, and it's too late. to put anyone else on the ballot. Okay, first of all, there are other people on the ballot, and any one of them. would be a better candidate. than Graham Plattner. Okay, now, look, I have to preface this. I'm more progressive. than Graham Plattner. I am every bit as anti APAC. as Graham Plattner. I am not somebody that you can go after.

and say, this is a plot by the establishment. to go after this guy. There are certain things. you just don't do and go on. to high public office. And one of them is get an SS tattoo. I'm sorry. Okay. You know, there's a lot of things. he could do to contribute to society. He says. He says. That he got it. He was drunk. He was a marine. He was fine. Fuck you, Graham, you don't get to do that. But he's. Over it.

Well, fine. So he robbed a bank. Okay, I was drunk, I robbed a bank. Should that follow me my whole life? Okay. Not in every. Not in apple. That's apples and oranges. Robbing a bank. It's against the law. Having a tattoo. is not against the law, David. No, it's not. But to the son of a Holocaust survivor, there are certain things. that are disqualifying. Okay. And having an SS tattoo, for whatever reason, you have an SS tattoo. And there does seem to be. that he's had plenty of flirtations.

with the extreme right. and sort of gun. lobbies and a whole bunch. of other parts of the US. throughout his life. And then. all of a sudden, you know, he's he's had this, you know, awakening. and he's like, oh, yeah, I'm. this big liberal and and so forth. Look, I've lived through John Fetterman. I know what happens. when these characters end up. We've seen them change. We can do better. You know, if he wants to go and contribute. to life in Maine,

there are a lot of ways he can do it. But now it's up to the people of Maine, as so many people have said, I think he's going to win. And I think what's going to happen. is that story after story. after story that has not come out, is going to come out, that the Republicans play harder. than the Democrats do on these issues. And this is going to be a big mess. And it could be the only reason. that Susan Collins, who deserves not one second. more as a senator, you know, she is responsible for Brett Kavanaugh.

She is responsible. for a lot of the bad stuff. that has happened. She will the her best shot. at getting reelected is six. months of scandals. surrounding Graham Plattner. There are a lot of good Democrats. Pick one, pick anyone. But how about Democrats. who say, we've got to believe. the women believing the women. in this case, and Democrats. who say we've got to have values,

embrace the values. This, to me, smacks of the sort of post. 2024 bullshit. that in order to win, Democrats. need to be as, as, as thuggish as. the Republicans. We need our own Joe Rogan. We need our own tape. Brother's bullshit. We can do better. Okay, so last week. you talked about generational change. If and you're right, there are still other people.

on the ballot, one of whom is Janet Mills, currently the governor of Maine. Properly, the governor. Shouldn't be the candidate, you know, pick one or the others. Okay. Well, David Rothkopf, very feisty this morning, very feisty. A generational change. This is the generational. Change that I'm the. Generation were looking for. I relate more to voters under 30. than I do to the fucking boomers. that I am part of, who I've had enough of. I want to turn the page.

I just don't want to turn the page. to something less good. That's all. Have standards. Well, it was a good move by Mamdani. to say. to New York kids that on the Knights. of the Knicks games, they didn't have to go to bed. It was a great move, mom. Dani has not made a wrong move so far. Crime is down in New York. Over the first six months. He's done things for the schools. He's done things for the city. Well that continue, I don't know, but so far so good. And he is a great.

example of what you can do. when you go out. and look for somebody. who wants to. solve the problems of real people. And that's. what Democrats ought to be doing, is solving the problems of real people. And that doesn't mean. they have to look like some. kind of populist. bozo to do it. You know, I. really love, you know, follow the Jon Ossoff. campaign for Senate in Georgia. He's making great progress and sends. great message. Follow Talarico in Texas.

Great progress, great message. There are good people out there. Let's focus on them. David Rothkopf, what a positive note to end on. Excellent as always to see you. I'm going to recommend your column again. in The Daily Beast. Today. It's first class. Why Trump is winning a war. But it's not the war. you think he's winning. And well, I look forward to seeing you next Monday. Bye bye bye. I love.

That we ended on a positive note. with a very feisty David Rothkopf. Right. And let us know what. you thought the best parts. of those conversation were. and the most worrying parts to. I do think his point. that Russian intelligence. agents couldn't sit around. and imagine. a better scenario for Russia. is a really important one. And whether or not you think. Bill Pulte. will do as much damage. to the elections. as David thinks he could do? Okay, hopefully as this drops, I will be at the game.

I will have braved the security queues. and managed to get in. to watch the New York Knicks win. Fingers crossed. See you next week with David Rothkopf. and I'll be back tomorrow. with Michael Wolff. And we go inside. Trump's head. once again, big thanks to our production team. Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passa, Heather Pesaro. and Neil Rose in the house. So the good news is. we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out.

and we really appreciate your support.