This Is Why The Correspondents' Dinner Shooting Seems Staged | The Daily Beast Podcast LIVESTREAM

I'm global editorial director at The Daily Beast. I'm joined by my colleague Hugh Dougherty, the executive editor. Now we come to you after a weekend that we were not quite expecting. No, we were not. Nicholas, thank you for thank you for having us. Thank you for doing the live. Thank you to everybody who is joining us. And we are here to talk about a weekend that. But we we experienced we lived through I suppose. but that is one that a lot happened.

There's a lot to unpack. and there's a lot to talk about what people believe happened, because I think we're dealing with two things. One, we were there. Just want to say. both Nicole and I were at the white House Correspondents Association dinner, and we want to talk about that, and we want to talk about what. everybody else in the world is saying about what we were at. That's really, you know, there's so much to unpack and talk about. Welcome your comments. We want to hear what you think.

You know. Here's the first question I think is for our. for our viewers and listeners who are in the chat. Do you believe that it actually happened like you saw on television? Do you believe it was faked? Was it a stunt? So this is what we wanted to talk about today. Right. So we've all been watching the TV constantly over the last 48 hours. We've been reading all of the mainstream coverage. We've been we're obsessed. Right? So we've been reading everything. But the one thing that they're not really talking about on the television is what. everyone in America, and to be honest, around the rest of the world is saying,

which is that they don't think this really happened. In fact, somebody came up to me on a train. on the way to New York yesterday and said it didn't really happen, did it? Yeah. And I similar experience. I walked out of the Washington Hilton, I walked into taxi. And this is like the worst cliche that can happen to journalist. It's the most snobbish and elite thing that the only contact with reality. you have is a taxi driver. But it was the first contact I had with somebody who hadn't been. at the hotel or been involved in this, or was reporting on it.

And the first thing this gentleman turned to me and said, so was it real or was it faked? And he was outside where it happened. So yeah, we have to talk about this. We have to talk about what do people believe and why. And I think what we should clear up straight away from the outset here. is that perhaps the person who first said this was in fact, Hugh. So we were lying on the floor after hearing the gunshots.

We took cover. We were on the floor beneath the tables. And the very first thing that Hugh said to me was, it's a stunt, isn't it? I think it's a stunt. Yeah. And we actually have a clip because Hugh was recording. as this all unfolded that we can hopefully have a listen to now. He might be the. Stunt.

So my question to you is why did you say that? Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question. And I'm just looking in the comments and people say it's fake. People say that it's it's a fake justification. I'll just tell you, Nicole, that I'm somebody says, sorry, the comments are moving so fast. I'm struggling with this. I'm sure that random people came up to these unknown journalists. and started commenting on the story to them.

So I want to say I understand why people think it's a stunt, and the reason why people think it's a stunt is something that I've just. published on The Daily Beast, a long piece in which I explain why. I know that people think that, and I also explain why that is wrong. So why do people think that? Well, first of all, to believe it's fake, you have to. Or sorry to believe that it's real. To believe that this was not a conspiracy,

that this was not a stage, that this was not a stunt, that this was not faked. You have to believe a lot of things. And I've just published this on the Daily Beast. Go to Daily Beast. Com. It's right at the very top of our homepage right now. And. I can let's just lay out some of the reasons. And I've gone on low tech. I've printed it out. But what you have to believe, well, you have to believe that a man called on the call, Thomas Allen, 31, had traveled all the way from Torrance in California.

without being detected, that he checked in to the hotel. on Friday afternoon, and he waltzed into this hotel. with a shotgun, with ammunition, with a handgun. And he wrote a manifesto in the hotel room, and he wandered around the hotel and nobody noticed. Nobody thought that was suspicious. You know, that that takes a lot of takes a lot of believing. If I'm honest, if you told me that straight, I go, I don't know,

but it happened. And we have first hand evidence of. Right, because we witnessed and experienced the same lack of security. Yes. So one of the things that's. noticeable in the manifesto, which will come on to he was writing. quite close to you, in fact, on Friday evening, unbeknownst to us at the time, one of the things that he points out is he thinks he outsmarted the. the security of the event by checking in the day before. and saying that nobody checked his luggage.

Well, I don't want to burst his bubble here, but I actually checked in. about half an hour before the event began and I had a load of luggage. My big, solid rock solid hard shell suitcase and other bags that I broke. So I'm going to be in the US. for a couple of weeks, and I walked in half an hour before. there were thousands of people already at the dinner in there. All their finery. Yep. Nobody looked. I just say that if anybody is wondering, unclear, you know, whatever, that this is true.

I went out and I met Nicole because I was in the hotel at that time. I went down to the lobby to meet him and shake his hand and say welcome. And yes, he had never been checked for anything. It is very, very surprising. Okay, so there are some other things that you've laid out as the kind of. the things that don't seem to quite so. He had been wandering around the hotel. So. All right. So, you know, the next thing you have to believe is that. this man was able to sprint past the Secret Service barrier, which had.

what they call magnetometers, you know, the sort of metal detectors that you go through at the airport. that he was able to sprint past them and get past 30ft. from them before he was stopped. And then you have to believe that he could have been stopped, that shots were fired, and yet he was not hit. And that then suddenly the next picture, he was on the ground and naked. Now that again, it seems like a lot to ask, but it happened. And we can and I can explain some of how it happened, because we.

went through those metal detectors, we went through them. I think it was about 45 minutes before that, maybe slightly less. And this was, you know, there was a very good. still picture on the screen right now. If the if you just just keep that on the screen while we're talking it through. Sorry I cursed that. Of course. Too late, but it's going to pop up back on screen. He is the count of the black dot or the black blob.

And to the left are those magnetometers that we came through and they could tell. you, you know, this very basic experience, the magnetometers were exactly the kind that you would see at an airport. You had to take things out of your pockets and put them on the little table, and then they waved you through. And if the alarm went off, then you were wandered. So at that point there was a proper security exact. thing, the sort that you would see all the time, and in fact, the sort that you see at courthouses, you see at schools commonly.

But what's notable about them is that unlike courts and unlike schools, they're not other perimeter. Yes, these were deep inside the bowels of the Washington Hilton Hotel. You had already come. through various different perimeters without any checks at all. One of our colleagues came through with a photo. of the invite that we had sent her, because she hadn't come in time. Exactly. Nobody raised an eyebrow about that.

So the security level that was there, just outside the ballroom. was, I would say, a proper security screening. What's what was surprising to me was that how far you could get into the Hogan, how close you could get before you came to her. And also, what's seeing this, this black and white doesn't quite sure it, but there were gaps between those magnetometers because. people weren't expecting, I would guess, that somebody would try to get through. Everybody who was going was a journalist, a guest, husbands, wives, dates.

And, you know, this is really important to students, students who were there. to have their work honored, which actually is the core of this event. And there are some people, by the way, who are asking the chat, you know, we lost our credibility by being there. So I'm just going to address. I want to address that. because it's something that people have been talking about all weekend. We went. there because we were going to go there before Trump was invited, and we made a decision that this was our event as reporters. and as journalists, and the event had decided to invite Donald Trump.

I have difficulties with that. But I also have difficulties with saying that Trump should simply get an audience. that would clap. He should not simply get an audience who should clap. He should see that people are not applauding. He should see the range of reactions. And also these. There are many students who are mostly from HBC use, who are honored for their work and given scholarships by the white House. Correspondents Association. And I have to say that those students deserve their night.

And it was stolen from them. And. that was one of our reasons for going there. So I hope people who are, you know, see that as attacking our credibility. Listen, we thought this through, so I want to move to the next sort of the round of issues. There was a security and yeah, we've spent some time on it. But after the security we were at the back. And if you've seen that video, we were pretty far at the back. But there's another thing that happens, right?

The president continued this routine with Always The Mentalist. And I say with a great picture right now in the Daily Beast website, which shows that moment always. The Mentalist is this guy who reads Marines and predicts what you do, and you know he's holding up, he's got a bit of paper and he's writing on it, and he was writing the name of Caroline Leavitt's baby that she had not apparently. been telling people. And when he was doing that at the back, we were already had heard these shots. and we were beginning to dive under the tables. So it sounds crazy, right?

You have to believe that the two things are happening at once, but I think we can offer some context and explanation. Well, we thought we had back row passes. It turned out we had front row passes to what was really going to happen, which was that this guy was making a run for. a set of double doors, which were right next to our tapes. We I was I don't know about you, actually, we haven't discussed this, but I was expecting to see that door kicked in and to see a guy with. Yeah, that was semiautomatic weapon. That was fully what I expected.

That was the next thing I believe, I and I think it was obvious that people who were further away from that. those doors didn't necessarily either hear the gunshots clearly themselves. Right. Or couldn't quite put two and two together as to what had happened. It was very obvious to us straight away that that sounded like gunshots. And we both spoke to we, Nicole and I and our other colleagues who were there, Dave Gardner Thomson and Sarah Weiss. We all spoke to people who we knew and people who we didn't know after the event, who were further into that ballroom to the left, to the right and far ahead of.

us, who said they heard a bit of a noise, but they couldn't understand what it was. And we at the back inherently, instinctively knew what it was. And this isn't journalistic bravado. I am not a war reporter. I am not somebody who has the courage and the dedication. and the bravery and been under fire. I have not, but I know what a gunshot sounds like, and I knew immediately. And, Nicole, I think you're I think you've done more brave things than I have. But it was you know, this isn't we're not we're not doing this out of Eagle.

People futher afield have been under gunfire. I spoke to a colleague, a former colleague. who had reported from Afghanistan, where he absolutely came under fire. He had to wear a bulletproof vest. People, you know, he saw people fall in action. He knew that it was gunfire only when he saw it in television, because it didn't sound like it from where he was. So that is one of the big things. And let me just and maybe for the benefit of people who are joining. as we're in the middle here, but, but but for everyone as well.

Let's just circle back to the point that you're you're making the case. It sounds like now that this was a real thing, that this really happened. But your instant reaction when we were sitting there on the floor was, this isn't this is a stunt. This isn't real. So even though you've just explained some of those kind of credibility gaps away, so you had that knowledge, that first hand knowledge, which obviously. most people who were just watching this on television didn't have. And still you thought it might be a stunt. So just talk about your brain sort of process at that point.

Yeah. Well, I've, I've been involved in covering Donald. Trump since the moment you went down that golden escalator. So that's 11 more than 11 years now of, of the Trump show. And I, I'm a reporter fundamentally, I'm an editor. I'm not an opinion journalist. And I came to Trump with a reasonably open mind. And I think everybody who's on this chat, who's watching this afterwards will say, 11 years ago. they didn't really know what they were getting. And what we have been getting since then is a president and a candidate,

a president and out of office president, then a candidate, then a president, and whose word you cannot take at face value. You cannot believe what he says. He does not he doesn't tell the truth. But I think fundamentally, he has no understanding of the value. of truth and places no value upon truth. He may be amoral. And Michael Wolff, on Inside Trump's Head, is always diagnosing Trump. in various ways.

And one of the fundamental points that he has made is. he doesn't he doesn't think like you or me. He doesn't think in terms of truth and lies. He thinks in terms of advantage to him. So I was down on the floor and I thought stunt, because that's the sort of thing that Donald Trump in my mind would do. And I think in the minds of millions of people, that's what Donald Trump would do. He would troll the mainstream media by having fake gun shots fired. He would do it to make himself look.

big and strong, and to have that bottle of Pennsylvania moment again. I was going to say this because this isn't the first assassination attempt, is it? This is not the first assassination attempt. It's the third in terms of people who have been charged or who in the case of. or of course, were killed after they'd opened fire. But. the the thing. that the idea that this was a setup that that there was something being done.

that this was those shots might be real, but that they were done with a purpose or. an intentions flashed into my mind because that was my instinctive belief. about what the Trump world and the people around him are capable of. And just to be clear, would you describe yourself as a conspiracy theorist? No. I mean, honestly, I don't think I would. You can maybe judge that. And you're going to, you know, you obviously we work together. No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I never believed in there are crazy conspiracies out there right there. Crazy conspiracy theories. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'd just be honest.

And there are many people will not agree with me on this. I do not think Jeffrey Epstein was killed in prison. I think he took his own life. I think that what what really. what really they spoke to was my instinctive. emotional reaction was that's the sort of thing that Trump would do. And I think that's what everybody who's watching thinks. That's what Trump would do. And I think, I think what's really interesting, and it's actually where I sort of differ on this to, to you and probably, I don't know, 75% of the people watching this in the.

I don't think it was a conspiracy and or a set up in any way. And in fact, if you listen closely to that video, after you've been saying it's a stunt into a stunt, you actually hear me in the background saying, no, correct, correct. And, you know, I was an early adopter. Nicole was an early denier, right? I'm I fundamentally, absolutely, absolutely do not believe it was a stunt. I do not believe it was staged. And I know there are people in the comments. I'm reading them now.

who have reasons to think that Trump. wants the Obama photo of him in a shirt in the Situation Room killing bin laden. We know that. We know he does. He has tried to pose that picture, I think three times that. I'm aware of. You know, I think this is where also I should say, by the way, somebody is addressing. my point about we didn't really know what we were getting with Trump. I just want to be a bit clearer on that because then Joy, joy via I think it is.

says I knew when you appeared in that escalator what he was. I never thought he'd get elected. I think that's a fair comment. We knew he was a salesman. We knew he was a showman. I don't I would say I didn't know that he was so fundamentally. unmoved from truth. And I think people. there are some people who felt that instinctively, and I admire them for that. I didn't, I think. Yeah. And I think what's interesting about Trump. and he sees himself as a great president, right? A great man in history. And I think and I'm a sort of a subscriber in the great to the great man of history.

theory, which sort of states that the big fundamental. things that happen throughout history and have done over, over centuries. have generally been led by individuals and individuals acts. And obviously, Trump sees himself as one of those great men. And I don't agree with that. But what I do agree with is that he has that innate. sense of when to swoop on a moment. and to seize on an opportunity and to turn it into his favor. And so when the blood was smeared down his face at Butler, Pennsylvania,

and he stood up saying, fight, fight, fight, I said immediately, he's just won the election. And that was I mean, that's now coming up for two years ago. And Nicole wrote that and people to go back and look at it. Yeah. Trump won the election mostly on that picture. There are other factors the economy, there's egg prices, whatever it is. But that picture, first of all, he probably won the election on it. It certainly propelled him. But more importantly, he believes he won the election on it. He believed that was the moment of greatness that put him in the white House.

And the fact that he I mean, it's a much more kind of quotidian version. But the fact that he immediately seized on this shooting on Saturday night. to push his ballroom, I mean, it's such a tiny conversion, but you could hardly call that a great act building of a ballroom. But he did try and seize it, didn't he? Seized it. And, you know, I think the. the way I describe it in this piece that I've written and I said, I said earlier in this, for those joining us, I just want to see I,

I'm a reporter, I'm an editor, I'm not an opinion journalist. I don't see myself as an analyst. But there are sometimes the only way to grapple with what you need. to report on is perhaps to put yourself in a bit. Trump will go down in history is no doubt in my mind to go down in history. as one of the great, and I use this word, it doesn't mean positively. This is not a compliment. He will go down as one of the biggest opportunists there has ever been. He has a lizard brain instinct to seize.

on difficulty, danger, whatever it is, and turn it to his advantage. And I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, so I'm, you know, I'll leave that to those who are qualified and leave it to Michael Wolff. But it is. it is. all the words that you can use about its own good. Right? It's extraordinary. It's a superpower. I tell you what, it's none of those things in a good way. But it is a fact that his ability. to pounce on something and turn it round is.

something that other people don't have, and it's something that great. leaders have always. And, you know, the classic example of this obviously, is the Reichstag fire. Right? So there was this fire in Germany, and Hitler managed to use. that as an excuse to bring in draconian laws, and therefore. for for many decades afterwards, everyone assumed that. he must have set the fire because he used that as the inciting incident. to justify all of his kind of horrific fascist. laws and rules that he then brought in.

But it turns out it was basically just a complete random coincidence. But what he did, it was, I think it was a disaffected, homeless communist or something that actually set the fire. But what he did do, you know, brilliantly and inverted commas, is seize on that. moment and, and take the opportunity, which is what Trump does in these moments. And I think, therefore, it's understandable that a lot of people. kind of look backwards from that and say, oh, therefore he must be causing. those things in the first.

And I think, again, I say, I'm not wanting to psychoanalyze too much, but for everybody it's easy. I think it's more comforting to think that there is a conspiracy in a strange way, then, that somebody is so able to pounce on a random moment of chaos and turn it to. their advantage, because most of us would have no ability to do that. We would be paralyzed, or we would want to do the right thing. And presidents in these difficult situations for,

you know, 250 years have tried to do the right thing. This is not trying to do the right thing. I think one of the points that you make, actually, that's maybe, perhaps. the most persuasive point in, in your piece about this. is that if this had been staged and Trump had been doing this. to try and replicate the Butler moment with that trickle of blood. down his cheek, well, where are those great photos? Right. What actually happened afterwards doesn't look that great, does it? No. And Nicole and I watched we we didn't have a good view.

of the stage when he was taken off because we were down on the ground. And those are those people who were down on the ground with us included a senator. Right. To my just to my left. was the table was News Nation. Right. And there was the senator. They had a couple of people that you probably seen on air. If you watched TV. None of us could see up to the stage at that point. So we instead, we managed to get back up on our feet.

when members of the cabinet and aides were being brought back past us. And I think we've got some pictures that we can run. These were not people who looked at their game faces. on, as the phrase I used in this article. They are people who are being escorted. They have hands on them. They're being held. They don't they don't look, they're not they're not camera ready. They looked small, frankly, they looked weak. And there is one word that Trump does not want out of this and that is weak.

There's one thing I can believe, which is that. Trump would have been perfectly happy for his cabinet. and all of his other goons and hangers on to end up looking weak. What I cannot believe is that he would have allowed himself. Exactly, because the way he kind of stumbles, the falls as he goes off, it was almost the opposite. Yes, of course, you know, we I said we did not from where we were have a view. We now watched it over and over again. He looked old, he looked weak.

And one of the reasons, which is fascinating, that is the reason that JD Vance. was moved first, which a lot of people are very suspicious of. Quite rightly, the president is supposed to be protected first and JD Vance protected second. So we Zhanjiang, who's the president of the white House. Correspondents Association, was backstage. or was on the stage and dragged off by the Secret Service. And when she got backstage, she discovered that the reason was given.

that they moved JD Vance first because it is more difficult to move Donald Trump. And what does that mean? He's bigger. He's not taller. He's fatter than JD Vance. He obviously has health issues. He has 79. They moved Vance first because he's young and fit. And they just grabbed him and he ran. Trump can't run. He he's a we we what we see on TV. It looks like he fell. He claims he didn't. claims he didn't. Well you'll have to take his word for it. And we have to take his word.

Take him as well. But he looks weak. If you are planning a stunt and you want you want to have a stunt, you don't do that. No. And I think there is a I think some of the Secret Service, some word has come out from why the Secret Service did move him. separately as well, which, I mean, first of all, it's different teams, right? Yes. There's different people on it. Yeah. So it could have it could potentially be that Vance's team was just quicker. and did a better job on the day. I think it's actually also slightly more complicated than that, because what.

they have been saying, what the white House and what sources. within the Secret Service have been saying. is that the ballroom at that time was actually the safest place, and that they wanted to make sure they had a secure route to a second holding place. that was actually safer than the ballroom before they did move him. And to be fair to them, they did that pretty quickly. Although I would note that some of the cabinet ministers. were leaving quite a long time after. It was a long time, and I've been through the timestamps on my photos,

and it took at least ten minutes to move these cabinet members. And I think you might you might remember we watched hexes go past with his wife. He was not moving that fast. And Haig's, is a former television anchor. He he knows how to pose. We've seen those absurd poses. He was not posing. He did not look like a man who had been experienced combat. And I cast newest persons on his service. But we saw agents and officers running prepared,

looking around, doing the best hexes was not that he had his hand on his way back. He was looking around. He was perplexed and I don't know. I can't see inside his mind, but he did not look like central casting. No, I would say that. And again, I don't know whether this solves the problem or not because, hey, would. they have been looped in on the. on the plan if there had been some sort of staged event? But having looked at those people in the eye as they were walking past, I would, you know, my testimony would say they did not look like they thought.

this was a they did not they they looked very, very concerned. Yep. And, you know, there was Judge Jeanine, somebody had a hand on her to help her go along. These are not young people. The not fit people. There was a junior was hustled off. His wife was kept separately. I. cash Patel said to the table that he was at. I'd rather stay, but I have to go and sort this out. He looked well. I was going to say he looked perplexed,

but that's probably an unfortunate reference. You know, there are so many aspects. of this in which this doesn't look good. Now, the other thing I want to move to is what people are. rightly talking about in the chat is the press conference. So the press conference for those who are joining us, just to fill in the background here, Nicole and I were at the white House Correspondents Association dinner. We wanted to be there because first of all, we fundamentally were reporters. And secondly, to make a point that this was not Donald.

Trump's house, this was the journalists house. And to support that, to support the students who were going to be honored, the way that this went down, we were in that ballroom. We were not asked evacuate because people believe that. the security service authorities believe that it was actually a safer place to be. So there's a lot of questions, but why didn't they evacuate? They believed it was actually safer to keep people there. This ballroom has a known number of entrances. It is underground.

Basically, it's dug into the side of the hill as you go up Connecticut Avenue. And. that's actually a very sensible thing. I was speaking to somebody today who both Nicole and I are from the United. Kingdom, who has been involved in security planning in the United Kingdom, and said. that was the only good thing they did was not to evacuate that that ballroom. Interesting. Maybe it would have been nice if someone had told us that. It would have been very nice if we'd known that. So why was there? Why was the no sense of fear on the stage?

Why was then there was a press conference. And I think I think we can answer some of that, right? Well, I mean, as I say, nobody told us anything. Nobody said, oh, all clear now, you know, the incidents over. At no point did anybody say that. Yeah. Which given that we were in there for. about an hour and a half afterwards, obviously we heard the five shots. And then there was silence. So. as the minutes ticked. by, we started thinking, oh, I guess this must be over. Yeah. And at some point, everyone just sort of.

went back to their mindless chit chat and their kind of networking. Yeah, but there was no kind of official. No, there was never any official announcement that things were all key, which again, you know, it sounds suspicious. I'll just be honest. This was chaos. There was nobody clearly in charge. It was a mess. But that decision not to evacuate actually appears to be the right decision. Because they were not expect there was no other gunman. They had a wide field of a secure perimeter and that is pretty good.

So the press conference, let's get to this press conference. And for those joining us, Nicole advanced. his analysis of Trump. that Trump thinks of himself as a great man and a great president. And I just this key phrase here is he thinks of himself as. And the thing that we were both discussing is. this is an opportunist extraordinaire.

He's a salesman who sniffs the ability to close the deal, to make, to make the sale, the, the ability to do that as anybody else. Ever been that good at that? Good? I don't know, but, you know, it's it was unsure immediately he went up to. What does he know? How does he live? What does he think about? He thinks about the TV camera. He thinks like that and that. And that's what he did. And that's what he.

That's why this press conference and one of the delays, actually, that. because what we were being told in the room, not again. by anyone from the security services or any kind of official or police. But what we did keep hearing once from Oz, The Mentalist, was that the event would resume soon. And so just want to just address in a comment Paul Brian Bell says BS. they would evacuated immediately to check for explosives and other suspects. Yes, yes, you were absolutely right.

They would have. And the reason that this person who had been involved. in these sorts of events planning, said this to me was because this. ballroom itself had already been checked for explosives. What hadn't been checked for explosives was anywhere else. And we should come on to your. close knowledge of. the areas that were, in fact, checked exactly around about midnight. Midnight? Yes. So, you know, the press, the press conference. It's just the height of opportunism.

And the people around Trump are impersonators are shadows. And just. We can see in that photo from left to right, JD Vance, the vice president, and what was quite honestly, a rather cheap but high outfit. Todd Blanche, the acting attorney general, who again, he's wearing a clip on bow tie and his suit is very ill fitting. Donald Trump that suit seen better years. Cash Patel clip on board tie mark Wayne Mullen we can't see.

but has one of those long ties on. These guys know that they are the cast and they laugh when Trump laughs. And they are because they cry when Trump's cries. That would be absurd. He doesn't. But they laughed and laughed because they know, they know they. they know that the boss is laughing, so they must laugh. And that is what was happening there. That's a show he put on a show and they all know. the cuz that's how they got there. I don't think that's a conspiracy. I think it might be sinister, but that's who these people are.

Can we move on to something slightly different? I. from my hotel room at the Washington Hilton on Sunday, I had the various different. news networks running Fox. I watched a bit of Fox. I watched a bit of MSNBC. I watched sorry miss. Now I watched a bit of CNN. And the one thing that was common to certainly. miss and CNN was. establishment DC figures. scolding the audience, scolding members of the public,

scolding people on social media who were raising these questions. Yes. And and I think, I think that's it was really instructive. about how the disconnect has grown between the media and especially. the establishment DC media, which is I mean, we could do well. We were in the room there. We could do a whole nother show about about the the kind of bonhomie between. supposedly opposing pundits, for example, who actually a best friends. patting each other on the back. But let's leave that to one side. But I think that problem of the, you know, the TV networks.

telling us, the viewer, that we're wrong to have questions. Exactly. And that's why we wanted to do this live stream to talk about this. And I can see in the comments people are, you know, people are saying. they're clowns. It's faked. You know, Trump is the world's worst, worst salesman and deserves no credit otherwise. Actually, I think that's a good point, right? He's he's a great closer I suppose what he sells.

He wasn't good at selling steaks. He wasn't. Yeah. He went bust with the casino. I mean, yes, that's a very long list. Fascist tangerine that we can add to. And we could probably do two hours on the fake things, on the failures. But people have to acknowledge this. I had that thought instantaneously as a stunt. So I'm not, you know, I'm not Superman. So did millions of other people. And it was not.

And I don't you know, it's unfair to the mainstream media. We are the mainstream media. There are, you know, of people watching us have this talk. And thank you to every one of you who joins us. So what's mainstream though? But that establishment media did not even dare to admit. that people are thinking and saying that this was a faked or staged. And I don't think it was. I don't believe it was. I'm convinced it was not. But we have to talk about it. And what also really annoyed me, though, was the way.

they were acting affronted that people might think that. Yes, and it's not. Having the open mind I think is is dangerous. I think it shows a fundamental lack of respect for the, the, the, the experience that we have all lived through. You do not live in these shows normally in their core, but I've lived through every day of the Trump administration. in the United States, except, I don't know, like a week in Mexico. But every, every day of that Trump administration,

we have lived through that, and we have seen the. the divorce from reality, the divorce from truth, the opportunistic, the the stunted, the. the playing for the cameras, the mugging for the cameras turning. a mug shot in the subject of mugging into photo opportunity, merchandizing. and attempted assassination in which, by the way, a man was murdered. Turning that into art in quote marks. We have seen that. No wonder we don't believe it.

But I'm here to say we. Unfortunately, it happened and it's not staged. There's one last thing that we should talk about that we haven't covered off here, which is actually what you wrote about on the night. And we were we were in the lobby trying to figure out what was going on. We were writing pieces. We were crowded around our daily piece, laptop, listening in to Trump's press conference. And then there was a point in the evening where you went upstairs.

to get a phone charger from your room. Yes. Tell us about what you came across up there. Right. So I was in room 1 or 2, three, five, right at the top of the hotel that's got ten, ten floors, ten stories. And I was at the very, almost the very far end of one of the corridors. And I went to get my phone charger because my phone was almost done. We were we were very aggressively reporting, talking to people, and I needed to recharge my phone.

Really banal. I went up and there was outside the door. a Hilton security guy in a suit and an earpiece. And behind him, a group of law enforcement. couple from the Metropolitan Police Department. That's the local police in Washington, D.C., and one with what. I, I'm sure was a Secret Service windbreaker. And they were outside the door. And I said I was a bit puzzled, and I said, oh, I just need to get to my room, not quite sure what was going on.

And the Hilton guy said, I'm sorry, sir, can you maybe come back and, oh, I don't know, 20 minutes. It's for your own protection. And at that point I thought, well, they have a protect somebody that's supposed to protect in that room. And maybe that that person was in that room already. Because one thing that happens, it's a huge hotel. A lot of people who are already in DC Booker room, and they get changed there so that they can, you know, their wife there.

If they're women, they can get changed. You can get changed into dinner kind of anywhere and tuxedo kind of anywhere. But as we know, female dresses takes, takes a bit more. So it's not unusual. You had a real bow tie on, so I did have a real bow tie I did that was, that was that was as long as the other one. But I thought, okay, they've got a protector in there. I can kind of understand that. It's kind of a bit odd. It's two hours since the shooting, but I don't know, this whole night. Odd. So I said, okay, sure, I'll come back.

And I went back downstairs and I was down there for an hour. while Trump did his press conference that we have discussed. And I went back up. And when I went back up, I couldn't get into my room. I couldn't get halfway down the corridor because there were no a lot more. law enforcement. There were. three, three immediately forming a cordon. One was a detective and in an alcove to the right. And the picture is up on screen. Right now, there's actually a group, a father group, who ducked into an alcove, and I took this photo.

I didn't. This is not a concealed camera or anything. I said, guys, I'm here. for the purposes of journalism and I would like to take a photo. And in that, in that position to the right. Some of them actually went behind us. More people were in that than than you can see. You can see in the photo. And I said, oh, can I not get into my room? And a detective said to me, so we're waiting for a judge. This is going to be an FBI crime scene. And I knew then that an FBI crime scene and a judge means.

they needed to get a search warrant. I don't know whether to get into the room or to get into things in the room. That is, local law varies, and it's like, you know, it's just it could be either way. But people where, you know, they were. there was law enforcement officers were waiting to get into that room. We'd already heard from sources on the ground that it was possible. that the shooter was a guest, and at that point, we'd just heard the name for the shooter, and we'd had the possibility that it was a guest.

And I put two and two together, and I said, so all done. Was he in the room next to me? And the detective said, I'm sorry, sir, I can't tell you that. I said, do you want to talk to me? Do you need me to help you with anything? Like, I don't know, I don't know. And he said, oh yes, I suppose so. I can take your number. So I gave my business card, which is very old fashioned, but. that's an event where people exchange business cards and that.

and then I said, he said, did you see him? And that I'd confirmation then from that question that yes, he was in the room next door and this was at about maybe 11:00. This is three hours after the shooting. It's about 1130. I've checked the time codes on my camera. Three hours after the shooting and the, the guy said, did you see him? Did you see him? Because we'd already seen the picture. Trump had put out this picture and I said, no, definitely not. I said, all I can tell you is when I checked in.

and when the housekeeping came to my room and Saturday morning, because I chanced to walk in and housekeeping. So he asked me when that was, and as he asked me that, he said to the Hilton guy, can you get the cleaning logs? We need those. So they hadn't thought of asking. They hadn't thought of asking. And this is not a criticism, by the way. I just want to say that we are incredibly grateful to the. the courage of those officers and agents who tackled this guy.

There was some questions that I think we can answer, actually, in the comments. I want to come back to about the tackling and why he was naked, but just to stick with what happened with the room next door. And I. said, I guess I'm not getting into my room then. And the Hilton guy said, oh, well, not really, no. And you can. So I went downstairs. So you got this point goes down. stairs to start writing up the story, which you can read on The Daily Beast. You also did a version on the New Daily Beast Substack.

Yes, please. Like and subscribe. Yep. So you were writing up the story. I then went up about half an hour later, about midnight, to see. what was going on before you filed, and your room was nearby as well. I was on the same floor as well, and by the time I got up there at about midnight, there was a whole. parade of bomb squad people going in, and I overheard again, the Hilton guy was trying to sort of play defense in the middle of the corridor. He was a fantastically polite guy, by the way. Yes, he really was. He really was.

Massive props to him. He is fantastic. Yes. So he was trying and kind of block me from looking. But I saw the entire bomb squad all wearing bulletproof vests, all the kind of explosive gear, and I kind of loitered in the corridor. and air wigged on what they were saying, and, and I could hear them saying, is the room above and below clear? Are the rooms either side clear? And the Hilton guy was saying to them, oh, well, that guy thinking it was that. I was you. That guy isn't in his room. Yes. It was very obvious that the bomb squad people were asking. if we need if this is going to blow up, have we cleared the area?

And bear in mind, this is now almost four hours after the event. It seems extraordinary that they hadn't even. got rid of any potential bomb threats at that point. I think I just want to address a few things that are in the comments here. I'm sure that the comment that I was weaving down the corridor. after drama six is only a light hearted. mention of my background. I can assure you I was stunned cold sober.

the wine at this event, by the way, I thought was saying snobbish was not very drinkable. I had a sip of wine and didn't have any more. But here's a question. Right. We were supposedly allowed to party. I can just say we were absolutely stone cold sober. And it's Hugh coverings on tracks. I might have been a spotter and man in the grassy knoll, I mean, yet. it is a funny observation, but this is the stuff of conspiracy. And there's one person who was really good at pointing at conspiracies,

Donald Trump. Right? Do you remember he said, Ted Cruz's dad shot GfK? So I understand why it's there. But there was also questions. And this is this is actually kind of important. Quite a lot of people are talking about why was why was called Thomas. Allen pictured naked and wrapped in foil. And Nicole, you actually have the answer to this. Well, it's absolutely protocol where any gunman or attacker.

is apprehended. I think there is a still a mystery here as to why, when so many shots were fired, none of them seem to have hit him. So that's a mystery. But what we can solve is why he was shirtless, and it's basically the first thing that they do these days. when there's an attacker like this, is they take their shirt off to make sure. they may be wearing some sort of IED vest, explosive vest, suicide vests. And those are those suicide vests are not things that have been widely. used in the United States, but they were widely used against.

United States forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and in Syria, and have been seen around the world. So you can understand why agents who are veterans are well acquainted with this. And they are also. I don't actually know, you know, this is all going to come out an inquiry. But one of the things that is more important for them to do. is to get to them and grab them before they can get at the suicide vest.

And there have been a lot of cases where a kill shot set off the suicide vest, and this is something that they learned from experience. So when people are suspicious about why he was not shot, I don't know. But I think that's something that we have to begin to question. And, you know, we have to understand there are questions about the decision factors there. Why was he wrapped in tinfoil? Because he was going to be called. If I'm honest, they don't. You know, he was he was exposed. They had to put him in something. And they carry first aid kits.

It's that simple. We saw people going past with first aid kits. There are people going past us in bulletproof vests saying medic. It's a really simple explanation. And I tell you who I will blame for this being out there and not being said. We are telling people this because we know, because we're journalists with experience, we have covered terrorism. We know that this is the case. Why was Cash Patel not out telling people these facts? Why are so many facts not told? This is a story about incompetence, and it's a story about refusing. to respect people so that their questions are answered.

Those are really, really good questions and they should should have been answered. Cash Patel was on Fox News this morning, and even even. they were getting frustrated with him trying to probe him for answers. And he was just kind of batting them away. And that's how you don't get believed. You know, cherry does fun stuff. 7410 thank you for supporting The Daily Beast. At this point point in his presidency, it's impossible to believe anything that Trump says or does. Look, I agree with you. That's why I thought it was a stunt. Everything that the past, what has happened makes me think it is not.

It was incompetent. It was shambolic. It was chaotic. Everything that you think is a problem has a rational explanation. And the rational explanations of afraid are based in incompetence and in chaos. There's one last. kind of thread of conspiracy that I think we should just quickly touch on. And it was it was actually brought up to me by the woman I mentioned. earlier who approached me on the Acela running from DC to New York. Can I come in? So people were skeptical that this happened, but there is actually.

a very easy explanation as to why it happened. And I'm going to basically point to it because Nicole, like, I has a laptop. which has ideally be sticker on it. And I would say, by the way, it's a great way to meet lovely people is to have a daily sticker on your lap. Yes, it's absolutely true. Oh, I love the truth. And people in the people are in the comments. If you see us on a train or a plane and you see our sticker, please. It's so great. It's happened to me. I know it's happened to you. It's great people.

You know, we all love the feeling of warmth and support and community. So it really did happen. Anyway. One of the things that she said to me was, but why are suddenly all these people trying to kill Trump? And I thought, actually, that's a good question. It's a very good question. So what was your answer? So my answer is, I'm afraid it's a very depressing answer. I'm afraid it's an answer that. as a country was visiting from the United Kingdom. He came over here for this event because he's such a key part.

I wish I did live here for three and a half years. I know I was going to add, right, you lived here for three and a half years. So that was my point is, you've seen it close up and from afar. This country at this moment, I've lived here. I have the privilege to be part of this country now. For the last 12 years. I first lived and worked here 25 years ago, and 25 years ago. I was here for the September 11th terror attacks, and I covered the aftermath of that. And now in the last 12 years, I have seen this country.

and this is a country, by the way, with such huge senses of community. and support, of togetherness and unity in many things, but it has become a place. where there is a toxic combination of guns of gun men. And I say gun men deliberately, of an acceptance. of division, of a toxicity of division. And I'm not going to sugarcoat this and say, oh, let's do it. Both sides are better. That division has been driven by the right.

It's been driven by Donald Trump. It was driven by people before him, but it has been driven by Donald Trump. There is a collapse and credibility because people do not tell the truth. And those things, I think, caused people to become radicalized. I think there's one other thing. That's what happens. I think there's one other thing about Trump. And again, in a way this goes back to his great man theory. I think a lot of people out there believe that if for one reason. or another, Donald Trump. suddenly stops being president, that that would change a lot of things.

Yes. In a way that is unique compared to that previous inhabitants. of the white House. So in a sense, there's a kind of logical reason why. a very sensibly smart guy who is obviously not screw loose. like this Caltech grad, you know, he obviously thought. he was doing something that was good, right? It was a reason to think that there might be an impact of that. Yeah. And that's, you know, that toxicity about the great man theory, which I don't subscribe to it, but it is a theory and it's how people are thinking.

It is far too prevalent right now in this country. And I'm not passing comment on other countries. By the way, I'm telling you what I believe and have experienced as a reporter, as an editor for the last 12 years, that the great man theory is a bad theory, and yet it lives in people. and it lives in people who then become obsessed by it in the wrong way. Will killing Donald Trump make any difference? Is not a question that anybody should be asking.

And yet we we know from this guy's man we can. This a man's alleged. manifesto appears to suggest that that is what was in his mind. I think there's just one last thing to say on that, on the kind of. why are there so many people taking this decision? And there's a lot of hand-wringing. about toxicity in modern politics, and we're in this uniquely bad position. But I think we also just have to nod. towards the fact that this is a country that is forged from violence. You know, we had the American War of Independence, we had civil war and controversial Abraham. No.

You know, Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in 1865. By 1901, he was one of three assassinated presidents. Yes. You know, then in the 60s, you had JFK, MLK, RFK, our current Health and Human Services. Yeah. Cabinet members, father, you know, Gerald Ford. There were two separate, unconnected assassination attempts in the course of 17 days. I mean, if you start including attempted. Well, I'm just you got Reagan.

You've got both Roosevelts. Yeah. I mean, you know, Harry Truman, it was. It's almost, if you look at it, historically rare for there to be a presidential candidate. who hasn't suffered an assassination attempt. So I do think that we should just put some context. that if you look at the history of the United States, it's not a surprise. It's not try and assassinate. It's not for political reasons. And, you know, there's even Steven Soderbergh's got a musical. about assassins. The. Yeah, this is the culmination. This is the culmination. It may not be the culmination, by the way.

You know, I think everybody who's there fears we will see this again. But it is the product of a toxicity around. how people think, the availability of guns. And honestly, I don't want to go there, but I know people in the comments are. and a retreat from telling the truth. I retreat from character and telling the truth. And like this isn't moral preaching, it's just observation. It's just reporting. I just want. to offer a couple of points in my defense because somebody said, did you say that.

Epstein is a isn't a conspiracy? I've got a complicated dancer. Just to be clear, I do not believe that Jeffrey Epstein was killed. I believe he took his own life. Many other people differ. I think that should be opened up and investigated to the best possible ability. There are people who benefit from saying he was killed. There are people who benefit from having him killed. You know, there's a whole lot of things. However, he was absolutely running a massive conspiracy.

that allowed him to traffic young women and girls. absolutely vile acts that he benefited from. It was a conspiracy. So I just that's I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I always believed that Epstein was running a conspiracy. I was involved in reporting on it since 2011 personally. But more importantly, the Daily Beast broke. that, broke stories after story after story in 2011, and the work of Conchita Sarnoff, which is an amazing body of work.

And she showed it was a genuine conspiracy. So I don't want anybody thinking that that's not the case. Also, I'm just going to say a shoutout to my native land flame. Gob says that America just needs six months of the Glasgow Police. They will all be running for their moms. That's probably true, I agree. Bring them over. I think we should say at this point. that we should start to wrap this up, but yes, that we will be in the comments. Yes. After this we will published something else.

We haven't got it. So something else. Something else we need to clear up. We are not long lost brothers, and the Daily Beast does employ. people who don't look like us. In fact, everybody else is not a 40 something gray haired Brit. So just to be clear, and we we didn't coordinate on our tailoring this morning. So somewhat to be done. Unfortunate. Yes, we will work on it. Yes. Well we were dressed. identically on Saturday night as well, but that's the point. We were in black tie and unlike Cash Patel I was not wearing a clip on.

So I have no comment. I have no comment on that. I think I hope I'm fascinated by the comments. I so glad of the debate that's going on, because. really, we wanted to do this because there just isn't debate, right? We need to look, I think it's really, really important. And this is where there's been a fundamental failure of. I was going to say American journalism. I'm not picking on America in particular. There's been a fundamental failure in journalism. Yes. To rise to the moment if our history, where people out there.

can speak and can share their views, their versions of events and the media, what the media has tried to do is to make it a closed shot. And to say these people below the line in the comments are to be ignored. And also, I just want to say there's another point that's being made. More people are making this, but Aria 26, 2020 I think anyone who believes. this administration is a conspiracy theory and says, I love you. I love you nonetheless. Thank you. But I just want to say, we don't believe this administration. We don't.

We know what we saw and we are not reliant on the word of cash. Patel, about what happened. We saw, we experienced. We asked, we spoke to police officers and I mean real police officers who were absolutely. courageous and deserve every bit of praise that they could possibly get. And I would say as well, like, just ask Caroline Levitt, for example, or Steven Chung. Our starting point when we. were reporting a story is almost always, well, we're.

we assume that what the white House is saying is not true. Yes. Doesn't mean to say yes. We report that we but that's our starting point in our heads. We assume that what they're saying is not true. And then we try and find out. Yes. True. Absolutely. And. one final question we have to address. When is Joanna? When are Joanna and Michael back? They will be back tomorrow. Exciting. Yes. 9 p.m. on YouTube and midnight. And these are Eastern Standard Times, I should say, because I know.

people are tuning in from a lot of places around the world. Thank you to all of you. Do you know what I want to? I want to ask. if I can go and listen to the taping of that one, because I cannot wait to hear the two of them on on Saturday. Absolutely. I just want to say, well, first of all, Nicole, thank you for coming to the United States. I'm sorry about the welcome that you got. There is going to. be so much for Joanna and Michael to unpack tomorrow. Another thing that's going to be. that we are going to be featuring on The Daily Beast, by the way,

is the visit of King Charles to and Queen Camilla to the United Kingdom. The Royalist Tom Sykes has been writing about their coming for ages, and we have reporters working on everything they are doing, and if we're lucky, we might get Tom Sykes on a Substack live. We are hopeful that we will have Tom Sykes with us in some shape or form. He's a he's only by royal appointment. So, you know, we have to we have to bring this through in forum.

But I just want to say thank you to everybody in the comments. We will be in there later as well. On the other comments, because we can see the live chat when this goes up. We can then go into the comments. Thank you to everybody. Sorry, sorry to interrupt. If you have a specific question about yes. Did you see a particular thing? How do you know X? How do you know why? Go to our Substack lib, Substack and write that specific question. And I promise you we will answer it. Yes. Ask us anything. I'm not saying we're going to know the answer. And if we do it nor yeah, we're going to try.

We will try and we don't know. We tell you. And that, I think, is the key. feeling of the mainstream of the establishment media that we saw. Nicole, I'll be back. I know you'll be back. Yeah.