This Is How Trump Staged His Own Political Funeral | Inside Trump's Head

It suddenly gave a platform. to the people who are going to be running to replace him. And I wonder if actually he realized that, because the one thing that is going to, as we go past the midterms. into the final two years of the president of this presidency, the one thing that is going to most bedevil him is the idea. that someone in his party would actually want.

to, and believe they can replace him. The idea of Republican might might become president. and overshadow Donald Trump would be the tragedy of his life. Michael. Joanna, don't forget the CTA, the call to action. The call to action. Please subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast. Just smash the subscription button wherever you get your podcast.

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at the Terror Graham Ballroom, our own ballroom. Michael, in Los Angeles on October the 20th. And if you would like to get tickets and come and join us, possibly. even meet us, go to beast.com/ith live. That's b stop hub slash ITH live. Treat yourself to a to a trip to Los Angeles. And come and meet me and Michael.

Yeah. No. And and there. We're good. Live. I mean, we are really good. I mean, we're good here, but I. But doing it live is is is really fun. I find it fun anyway. Yeah, it's totally fun. And you see all our flubs. But also it's the run up to the midterms, so it's going to be very on point. And we'll have the latest info from the white House on what level of panic. they are at. Are they at Defcon 2 or 5 or Defcon one?

I don't know the difference between 1 and 5. I'm not sure which is most serious. Is Defcon one most serious? I yes, it is more serious. Okay, so yes, yes it is most serious. Okay. So we'll give you a sense of that. But I'm very much looking forward to to being in LA. and talking to people and getting people's questions to know. And I feel that live. I say things that I'm really not supposed to say. Help them helpless. Oh good. So come are a poor lawyer.

has probably got his head in his hands as he speaks. But Michael, what a weekend. What else should one do this weekend but play golf in County. Clare in Ireland at Dune Bag? So we're going to be talking about Trump's golfing weekend. And happily, he's accompanied by not the first lady, but the human printer. We're going to talk about Trump falling asleep at a memorial.

I just want to interject there because I'm going to forget to say it otherwise. But I think it's important as a background that Trump presidency, that prior. to the presidency, he never went to Europe except to go to his golf courses. Of course, of course. Well, why would he? Why would he? So we're going to talk about him falling asleep at the memorial. and signs of unfortunate signs of droopy mouth about. You may remember a year ago. The right side of his mouth was drooping.

And we have some photos of that we want to show people. because it doesn't look great. Then I thought Melania looked a little droopy, too, beside him. I mean, they seemed to have. Yeah, I think they had sort of mirroring droops. So we're going to talk about mirroring Droopy Mouth and Melania's outfit. What's she saying now in her business clothes. What she what's she saying to people. And then of course we're going to talk about Trump a loser.

JD Vance versus the absent. Marco Rubio versus RFK junior, who gave a very interesting speech, and then Ted Cruz, who's emerging and saying, not so fast, the Cruz is back. So I'm going is a funny word to apply to Ted Cruz. I, I, I think because he's always there, that's sort of thing. He's coming. He's unexpectedly, rising or unexpectedly inserting himself.

He is always there. He is the perpetual Republican loser, the perpetual Republican loser, and and roundly humiliated by Trump, especially. at when Trump went after his wife, Heidi, in such an unpleasant way. But Cruz came crawling back and then went after his father. to remember he accused his father of killing JFK. Oh well. And RFK used JFK.

in his speech to win over the crowd and showed that he could, you know, attract the MAGA audience once Trump has gone. And you have always maintained that he was going to run as president. And I just thought there was no way in the hell that's going to work. And then his speech at the mini convention. or as a, as, Pod Save America. put it, Donny does Dallas, which I thought was pretty good. Was was actually pretty good.

I felt it got undercover draft Junior's speech. Because JD Vance got cheers of 4848. But actually, I think RFK junior is the one to watch. No, you're you're, You're a modifier. No way in hell. No way in hell basically defines American politics at this point in time. If you say no way in hell, there it is. There it will be that it will be. Okay. So a lot to get to, but fascinating news.

from doing some light investigation. Unveils that Trump is trying to build. another ballroom in Dune Beg in Dune Beg, where he bought a golf course. out of financial difficulties in 2014. He's there to play this weekend, and he had some diplomatic meetings. this morning. And I hope we can show the photo, because Natalie Harp is greeting people. at one of the diplomatic meetings I have seen this many times before.

She's not only always the greeter, but she is. the person who people in the know try to greet first. I mean, she she is. I mean, that's an it's a, it's a mark of her importance. So let me say hi and athalie. Oh, oh there's a Natalie. I mean, I, I can't really express. and I don't think people understand how pivotal she is.

in her role as the president's, you know, chief person. Well, she's chief personage in Dune, big as we speak. And, it's possible that environmentalists are trying to novel. Natalie because there is resistance to the ballroom. because of the narrow mouthed Wills Nail, who?

It's apparently an endangered species of tiny snail. These things are very small. But is this a particular Irish species? Do you think it's very possible? I mean, the narrow mouth world snail. It sounds Irish, doesn't it? Anyway, they're an endangered species. Expansion of the premises at Junebug may threaten them, endanger them. And so there are protests about the expansion. of the facilities, something that will be familiar to him.

The ballroom dilemma. The ballroom dilemma. So, from teeing off in Dune beg. He was dozing off at the memorial. at the Pentagon for 911. Well, I'm just trying to trying to see him in the. the always the context of Trump at in event as a,

as a spectator or as a listener is problematic. He can not listen. I mean, there's something about it. He just shuts down at this, at this, this point he has no capacity. And I put it this way, that he and this is actually Steve Bannon. used to say this, he has no capacity to absorb information. So therefore he reacts. And I think, I think then I'm going to shut my eyes.

My or my eyes are just going to reflectively shut. because I can't I can't listen to someone else. Well, it seemed in particularly bad taste, but what it did. give photographers the opportunity to do was study his face. And if you look at the photos and I know we're showing some here, it's very clear that his droopy mouth, which was in evidence last year, is back.

I wonder if he's had. I mean, droopy mouth is unfortunately often an indication of some kind of stroke. or stroke like activity, and he really didn't look well. His cancels a back. He looked swollen. He was dozing in plain sight. And we can go on to Melania in the moment and the end. There's a lot, a lot of this, you know, when I mean, I spent a lot of time. looking at this, at this, at Trump's face in repose, let's call it, during his trial.

So that was six, I think, seven weeks of him sitting there. forced to listen, force by law to listen. This was a criminal trial. He had to be there and and the cameras and then. so there was always a camera on his face that you couldn't see. people outside the courtroom couldn't see, but people inside the courtroom, everybody was focused on this. because he couldn't couldn't rouse himself to.

just it's obviously an inability. to put on an expression of attentiveness. So and. you could just see over the course of like the, the morning. he would slide into, a where I don't know where. wherever he went, wherever he went in his own mind. Clearly he was not there anymore, though.

Did he keep his eyes open in the court? And so not not always right. Because I remember there were accusations that he was falling asleep. at his own trial. Yeah. And I'm not sure he ever was kind of that. It was so much falling asleep as just as just a a kind of retreat. Is it possible he was meditating? Yes. Very possible. Joanna, I would say that. That's top. Top of the list. Yes. He was considering the, the.

the the the cosmic nature of his position in the world. Definitely, definitely, definitely meditating. And then what did we think of Melania, who, you know, came out of hiding for. for a public. Well. Well, what did she come out for? Because she's not gone to done bag with him? No, I'm sure this is one of those things. And they have to they put these things on the calendar. These are these are negotiated long in advance.

So everyone knew, you know, 911 would be a would be a thing. And then she only you know, they have to they have to parse these things. When do we need her? What is this moment where we can't have her at all moments? We can't have her at most moments. We and every moment that we have. that we can get her has to be a significant moment. That's, you know, when would when at what point would it look most.

most, glaring if she's not there? Now there are those point. But this is the point that most glaring and I probably. 911 was one of those logical moments. She really, really, really need her there. Well, she turned up and she was wearing a suit, a pant suit. She's very much favoring the pantsuit now, as opposed to certainly. any kind of short dress and the way she dresses.

And actually, Nell Scovell pointed this out to me, who's a writer for The Beast. The way she dresses now is in stark contrast to how Natalie dresses. So Natalie's in bright pastels, short skirts, hair up Melania's hair. She's basically hiding inside her hair. Which is, I think we've talked about before, but has gone blonder at the sides and darker at the root. So she's gone blonder and darker at the same time.

And a she looked furious, though. perhaps that was just a sort of solemnity at having to be. at such a solemn event as the 25th anniversary of youth. You think that was Melania doing solemn? Well, what do you think it was? I think it was Melania, the usual millennial. Why am I here? I cannot stand being here. How much more time do I have to spend here?

And if that wretched creature. gets one more inch closer to me, I'm going to scream. Interesting. Well, yes. So I also thought her dressing. I wondered if her dressing. And we've talked about this before of as her dressing. as armor against Trump, but it really seems marketed. now that she's actually wearing an outfit that Hillary Clinton made famous, that the pantsuit for women or certainly made famous in politics.

And here she is, and what feels like a business suit. And it feels like she's just saying, stay away from me. It's as if she sort of like this stay away. And of course, she would be aware that his first wife, Ivana, in her divorce, papers said Trump raped her. And we're going to be talking later on today about the Aegean. Carol movie, which is finally coming out. Viewers and listeners to this podcast will at last be able to see it.

in about a month's time on all the usual platforms, and you just think Melania must know what he's capable of. And I think the moment where he was attacking Rachel. Scott this week and his face came forward, and the sheer aggression. which normally he keeps somewhat repressed was out in full. And you just think, God, he's a really scary guy. Not too repressed. No, not not too repressed. But there was a sort of I think his approach to Rachel Scott,

the A, B, C reporter this week who asked him about the $5,000, he was like, no, no, not you, not you. And his whole face kind of lunged forward at her. And you just thought, if you're a melania, what a nightmare to have to deal with this. Yeah. Well, it is, it is I, I think markedly the new manager, Melania, the new mannish Melania. So.

He didn't look. Well, he looks markedly better, of course, when he was center of attention. for two days in Dallas at his mini RNC. What what were your takeaways from it? Well, the first takeaway is that this is. I mean, this is was the politically the most, counterproductive thing that he could possibly do.

Let's let's, in the middle of a midterm in which. in which his lack of popularity is the key issue. Let's stage a an event that reminds people. not only of him, but have how unpopular he is. And it was kind of extraordinary in, in, in in numerous ways, not least. of all the denial, all of these problems of which every Republican.

who is running for office this year has to deal with the war, affordability, foremost among them, he is denying those are not problems. As a matter of fact, those are benefits we should be running on those. those things. So so what the Republican Party. got out of this, the Republican Party got nothing out of this. Donald Trump, on the other hand, I think he got what he always wants out of this.

I am the center of attention. There is no Republican Party without me. I am I am the I am the person who channels the. hopes and dreams. and passions of this central core. of the Republican Party, a minority, yet a minority. That's not going to get anyone. necessarily elected, certainly not the next president. But nevertheless, that has a lock on the Republican Party, this MAGA core.

I am their person. I am their president. So I think he accomplished all of that. What that as I say, what that gets. the Republican Party, I don't know. But in addition to that, it. suddenly gave a platform. to the people who are going to be running to replace him. And I wonder if actually he realized that,

because the one thing that is going to, as we go past the midterms. into the final two years of the of this presidency, the one thing that is going to most bedevil him. is the idea that someone, someone in his party. would actually want to and believe they can replace him. So I, I don't, I mean I'm, I'm wondering what's in his head. as he started to see this.

and foremost among among the people. trying to replace him is his vice president, which is and I thought there were several. curious moves on Jade's part this week, a kind of a kind of JD jujitsu, if you will. JD jitsu, yes. In which he was both, embracing the president and,

gaining. distance from him if not scorning him. Okay, so say more about that. Well, I, I think I mean, this is JJD. understanding from, from, from JD's point of view. JD Vance desperately, desperately I don't. I don't think we can, in human terms. begin to understand the level of, of. of desperation and desire.

in need here on the part of JD, the most craven, pathologically ambitious person in America. So he wants to be so. getting to be the president of the United States for JD. He has gotten, you know, and he is he has reached that point, the closest point you can get to being the president of the United States. And, but now he has to seal the deal and he has to seal the deal.

by getting first, getting the, the nomination of his party. and the nomination of his party is going to be primarily. Well, I was going to say it was primarily based on his allegiance to Donald Trump, but I'm not even sure of. if if that's true, I think there's going to be a lot of currents. But among the things is that there is. he is going to need to project that allegiance to Donald Trump.

At the same time, he has got to get gain distance from Donald Trump. Donald Trump again, the least popular president in modern times. And that popularity, I think we can wager, is going to go down from here on in and not up. So there was an example of this. So there was a long piece in, in the New York Times this, this week. in which, in which the premise of this, of this piece.

is that JD Vance was the one person in the white House, certainly not Donald Trump, who was reaching out to the generals, the, the, the, the people essentially. on the front line of, of this war in. Iran to find out what was going on so implicitly here. You had said the white House does not know. what's going on in the war in Iran.

So I, JD Vance, is going to take it on myself. upon myself to try to figure it out. And I am going to contact the people who probably have. the most information about about about this war. So I'm a totally so that he's positioning himself. I'm the opposite of Donald Trump. Mr.. Attention deficit Mr.. Light on details Mr.. You can't tell me anything. Instead I JD Vance am going to be.

the person who is going to listen, seek out information, find the details, learn about what's really going on. Now. Does Donald Trump appreciate the. the the level of this dis? Not necessarily because at the same time, JD. Vance is at the mini Republic Republican Convention, the mini con and saying Donald.

Trump is the greatest person in the history of. of not just the presidency, but of the entire history. It seemed. Right. And when he walked off the stage, he was getting chants. of 4848, i.e., he's going to be the 48th president. I wanted to read a paragraph from the New York Times piece, because you can feel the JD Vance machinery. Going on behind the scenes here.

So he says, Mr. Vance. So this is a piece by Jonathan Swan and and Maggie Haberman. Mr. Vance has developed a reputation inside the Trump. administration for steeping himself in operational detail. So to your point. Something we know Trump has zero interest. Oh, I just want to just a slight parenthesis here point. that that Haberman Swann are the authors of the New York Times book. about the second Trump presidency, regime change.

And what you can read there is, is, in this article would say that. one of the sources on regime change is JD Vance is JD Vance. So they this is this is repayment okay. All right. So Mr. Vance has developed a reputation inside the Trump administration. for steeping himself in operational detail, a habit. that some officials admire and others regard as too much in the weeds where Mr.

Trump works. in a way that leaves even his aides guessing how he arrives at decisions, Mr. Vance obsessively tracks the daily minutiae, including military operations, the internal dynamics of the Iranian political system, and the sourcing of intelligence assessments. John Ratcliffe, the CIA director who we've talked about before, who went to. Russia recently, has given him direct access to agency analyst.

Mr. Vance, knows some of them by first name. and calls their desks to ask about raw intelligence or items. In his morning briefing, intelligence officials said, now. we know that Donald Trump, the last thing you want is his morning briefing. He knows everything. He doesn't need a briefing. He's smarter than the briefings. But that felt very clearly. Team Vance at work. Oh, yeah. Let me just interrupt. Just that that interesting note that people around him. don't know how Trump comes to a decision.

Okay. That's that's not true. And both Haberman and Swann know that that's not true. People absolutely know how he comes to a decision. He just he just he comes to it a spontaneously. He just makes a decision. It is based on scant information. I mean, I don't know, even that suggestion. that there must be a way, that there must be some logic. behind these, these these decisions, some method is not true.

And they know it's true and they know it's not true. And everyone around Trump knows it's not true. Everybody knows he just he's just he just decides, he just you know, it is all got a gut call on Trump's part. Well, and actually in another piece, what was fascinating was today, I call out and I guess we've always known this, but how astonished Trump has been by the resilience of the Iranians.

He assumed that they would, within a few days of the initial bombing, give up. People would rise up from the street, and he can't believe that they haven't done it. And he can't believe that we've run out of munitions. But there was another person, I think, who's irritated. I thought there was another line in that paragraph I just read about. Some people think JD Vance is too in the weeds. I bet one of those people is Seth and the hedge. Seth is now having to to get the Office of Naval. Intelligence to write Vance Daily reports.

I don't think so. Okay. I think I think that's a, that's. one of those those we're protecting our flank. We now have to say something. Some something. The contrary position to how virtuous JD is. So we're going to say that in a way which actually confirms his virtue. So we're going to say some people think he's too in the weeds.

Well, in this white House to for anyone to be in the weeds, that's like, oh my God. Finally somebody, you know, in the weeds. You mean he's detail oriented? That's what you're saying here. So that's a compliment. So that they've just they've they gave the main compliment and then they. and then they took and then they recast the hedge as also a compliment. Well, it struck me as one of the. it's a bit like that question when you go for a job interview. and they say, and tell me about your faults and people say, I'm I'm a perfectionist.

I work too hard. Exactly, exactly. So and this is the thing in this is in so Swan and Haberman, who are setting. need to set themselves up to cover JD Vance in his campaign. So they are now currying favor. for the future, for their and for their career futures. And but what I also thought it read was that JD. Vance had come in over the top of Pete Hegseth, because we know that Pete.

Hegseth isn't doing a good job here, and has privately said. he thinks the war is going to continue, and he must be irritated. that General Kaine is sending Vance previews. of US strikes and essentially. coming in over the top of the Secretary of Forever Wars. No, I think and absolutely, the other thing. that that Vance is saying is I'm opposed to this war.

I was opposed this war in the beginning, which that article says says repeats constantly. And the book says regime change has it. makes it very clear JD Vance was the one who didn't want the war. Exactly. And, and and so this is reconfirming. Okay. I didn't want the war, but now I'm taking responsibility and I am finding out what's going on. And clearly, I am finding out what's going on about the war, and I am finding out that it's going terribly, which which confirms.

my original opinion. So anyway, this is this is the the. the JD machine is now gearing up and we're going to see this. This is this is you know, it will it formally it's. it's it's planned formally will launch on the day. after the midterms, but clearly it's it's getting into position now. Yeah.

No, no, it's clearly cranking now and then. The question is how how does Trump undermine it. Because as you say, what's going to be going on inside Trump's head? The idea of a successor emerging to him. Because that's not what he wants at all. Right now, just let me repeat my position, because I really think it's the context. in which, in which to, the only context in which that you can see this, the idea. that someone might. fill the a Republican might, might become president.

and overshadow Donald Trump would be the tragedy of his life. Therefore it's not going to happen. Oh, that's such a good line. That would be the tragedy of his life in a in a way that actually, for Rupert Murdoch, who always wanted to make an American president, he did make an American president. The tragedy is it was Donald Trump. But Donald Trump is going to the Donald Trump. presidency is going to continue, if not in the white House,

because I don't think he's figured out how to pull that one off, but. therefore it will continue in more a Lago. He will be the president in exile with billions of dollars at his disposal. to finance this, administration in exile. And of course, grift force won the Katari airplane, which we forgot to mention. That hilarious moment.

What a metaphor are. You immediately texted it to me when it happened. The emergency chute suddenly going off. I mean, could you have a better metaphor than grift? Force one is delayed taking Donald Trump to Dallas for his mini. RNC con because the emergency chute goes off. and you think down, the emergency chute is coming. All these Republican politicians who don't want to be anywhere near the RNC.

During the campaign, the emergency chute went off. And this was some, some, you know, poor engineer or or technician. did something wrong. This the chute went went off and that person was immediately. on fired on the spot. And and again, it is the, the the grand tragedy. of his life would be if he was replaced by another Republican. But the small tragedies all have to do with the airplane, and nothing.

makes him crazier than when things go wrong with his airplane. Well, I can understand that. Having spent the day on the tarmac at Heathrow on Tuesday, I can understand the frustration with with transport when planes don't work. It's really annoying with private transport. Well sadly not. I was at Heathrow flying back a virgin and the entire of Heathrow was closed. Actually, it was really problematic.

Anyway, I got back on Wednesday, but let's also talk then. As you say, if the RNC or if Trump unwittingly gave his successors. a platform to display their wares for 2028, RFK junior, I mean, you've always maintained he was going to run, and I've always thought partly his voice, his voice is just so unfortunate. to listen to. And I know you say it's a crack power by force. Other people say that he's got something wrong with his throat.

I thought that was disqualifying, but in fact, I thought. he gave a very compelling speech, and he invoked his father. He invoked his uncle, obviously JFK. And he said, you know, my I attended my first DNC when I was, when I was six years old. Yeah. No, I and I've said, I mean, he is our RFK is has a. he's in in person is can be very powerful.

He's very articulate. He's he speaks incredibly well. He's he's smart. RFK is smart. The problem with RFK is that he is a liar. and a fantasist and a propagandist, and, and it is all he would do. Anything. He would literally do anything to do so.

So JD Vance may be the most ambitious, craven, ambitious person in America, but RFK, it's a different kind of kind of ambition. I mean, first thing, it was so questioned for so long because he was out of it. He was a he was a drug addict and he was.

so many things disqualified him from ever. hoping to be what he is, what he believes he is destined to be. So it's a different kind of he really believes that there is this destiny. which he has to reclaim and to do anything to reclaim it. And he and he rediscovered this. I mean, he he he this was this was discovered, really in, in, you know, 2020,

when did he start to run 2022. And, and you know, the background of this is, is. is interesting because so are RFK as a political creature. A national political creature exists because of Steve Bannon and Roger Stone. So they went to him and said, you should. you should run your for all kinds of reasons. But but they're real. They're real,

they're real. Agenda here was to get him to run as a Democrat. and to shame Joe Biden. So to weaken Joe Biden and then RFK finding out. that he could do this and clearly relishing it. And his numbers were very good on the running as a Democrat and, you know, approaching, you know, 15% coming on 20%. This is.

Those are big numbers for an insurgent candidate. And so having a taste of that, but then understanding. that he was not going to be able to run past the pass, the, the primaries and the convention, then he decided, no, I'm. going to run as an, as an independent, as a third party candidate. And suddenly that gave him all kinds of power. because he because he was taking votes from the Republicans.

as well as the Democrats. Okay. So we have a clip. And I like to say we watch the RNC so people didn't have to. Let's play a particular clip of RFK talking to the crowd. the day that President Trump was shot in Butler, Pennsylvania. Within three hours of his shooting, he called me and asked me for a meeting. And during the series of talks that followed, I realized that everything that I had heard about President Trump.

and everything I believed about him from the mainstream media was a lie. Everything. Wow. President Trump called him. within three hours of being shot at Butler, Pennsylvania. Okay. That's interesting because that means that if. if that is true and in nothing. that RFK says is necessarily true, that means that Trump was not.

hurt. Trump was not wounded. I mean, it just let's let's use our. we can all use our human experience. If you've just been shot, if someone has just tried to murder you, you were not on the phone three hours later having a, a significant, in fact, a. pivotal political conversation. You're not talking to anybody.

And in fact, let me go over I you know, I know something about the timeline here. He gets shot, he gets shot. He is taken to the, he's taken to the to the hospital. They want to run a variety of tests. You know, do a Cat scan. Do a brain scan. He doesn't want that. So I don't exactly know how long that lasts,

but let's let's assume that's not trivial. Then he has to get to, somewhere else. He's going back to sneak. Going back to Bedminster? Yes, he's going back to Bedminster. So I don't know where this this this conversation even. even could happen in that three hour time period. But clearly, if it did happen, it means that Trump is is okay.

I mean, it's Trump is that I mean and many people have said that this. that his wound was a, a, you know, I mean, essentially he got he got, you know, some, some fragment of something hit his ear. and it was a minor at best. So I don't know what's confirmed here, but. but but clearly what is being said here.

calls into question lots of things, RFK s truthfulness. The presidents, the presidents wound after the assassination. The and and then in then in general. what are goes on to goes on to say. that Donald Trump is the, You know, everything that he what does he say? Everything he's heard about Donald Trump is, is a lie from the mainstream media.

So let's go on. and hear a little further clip about what he says about Donald Trump. I discovered a self-effacing man. of superior intelligence, of empathy and compassion, with an encyclopedic grasp of the issues. and within in molecular detail, and most of all, a near reckless courage. to challenge vested interests and official orthodoxies.

I found a man. who cared deeply about transparency in government, who believed in protecting. free speech more than anything, and the entire United States Constitution. I mean, a couple of things. Just just the just, just just the background here on on. RFK, RFK is not only a person who has who has, a.

assiduously, told the American people that vaccines that we know are. effective are not, are not only not effective, but dangerous. So he is a person quite capable of absolutely. either inventing his own reality or. or challenging reality in, in a way. that has is opportunistic for him that number one. And let's just remind people that measles has made a resurgence.

in the two years that he's been Health and Human Services secretary. We've had more cases of measles this year than we had. in the first 24 years of this century. Number two, he's capable of writing an entire book, which he has defending his, his his cousin, his Skakel cousin, who has been Michael Skakel. Yeah. Accused of and convicted of murdering his neighbor.

A, a as close as you can get to an open and shut case. Nevertheless, RFK can write this, right? This this book, exonerating his cousin. And let me say that he does it very well. I read this book. I thought, oh, my God, Michael Skakel might be innocent, which is not possible. Anyway, this is the death of Martha Moxley, who was over the head in a terrible, terrible.

Frenzied attack with the golf club. Yes. So. And then. So let's go back to Donald Trump is a man of of. of great humility and and self-effacing, manipulative, self-effacing. No, there there is, there there. there was, there was during the campaign, a leak of a recorded conversation. The Trump people were really, really pissed off about this. A recorded conversation between between RFK junior,

still junior at 72, coming on 73. And and Donald Trump in which I could do the conversation. It's Trump motor mouthing blah blah blah blah in RFK, the self-effacing. Donald Trump motor mouthing and RFK go, this is RFG lines are you go, Now the further background to this is that.

So RFK is running as an independent. He is taking votes pretty much an equal number of votes. both from the Democrats and the Republicans. He goes to first to the Democrats and offers himself. I will drop out if you will. If you will give me a high position, the, you know, the the I mean, likely the same position he got from the.

from the Trump, the HHS secretary position. The Democrats say no way are we doing that. Subsequently, to that, Joe Biden drops out. Comilla Harris becomes the the the candidate. And and that group of. of Democrats who indicated that they would that they didn't.

like the anti Biden Democrats who would vote for for Kennedy. Left they they all go back to, to Kamala Harris. So suddenly he's only taking votes from the Republicans, which means that the Republicans have to do a deal. They're panicked about about this. And, and that's his point of leverage. So the point of leverage in which he suddenly realizes.

so this point which he suddenly realizes. that Donald Trump, everything the media has said about Donald Trump is, converges with the moment in which Donald Trump. actually offers him the job of HHS secretary. And I will say that everybody. within the Trump circle thought, you know, because Trump is always offering. people, people, jobs, that this was just one of those things. and that the job would be and that they were all appalled.

when in fact, he RFK junior actually got the job. There's another so that I find that really sort of it's. just fascinating how expedient politicians are. So he's first up to the Democrats. They reject him. So he goes over to Trump. The other thing I find particularly interesting about him, which I think is less known, is that he was actually financed by. an ex wife of. Sir Brin, one of the co-founders of Google.

Now, Nicole Shanahan is, you know, she claims she's an AI expert. She studied at law school. She's a very interesting character. She marries Sergei Brin after meeting him at her, I think at her bachelorette. weekend party, she goes for a sort of spa weekend with girls. Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google or Alphabet,

is at the same yoga retreat they connect. She then gets married. 27 days into her marriage, her husband discovers. that she's been having some sort of relationship with Sergey Brin. She gets divorced and she takes the Toyota Prius. She gets the Toyota Prius in the divorce, and that's kind of it. Then marries Sergey Brin and then, incredibly, has a relationship with Elon.

Musk, which then tares the two men apart. They're friends. And she makes off because Sergey Brin like, okay, we're done here. She makes off with $1 billion in. Google stock, which has only continued to go up. So RFK junior chooses her. to be his VP candidate and she finances him. And so he's financed with her divorce settlement. I mean, it's a it's a remarkable turn of events.

And of course, he's married to Cheryl Hines, who I'm sure. can totally envisage herself as first lady because she essentially played. first lady to Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm. No. So this is so this is you just have to see this all in the, in the in the course of this very abbreviated political career. So this all happens to RFK junior post 2022. We're only in 2026.

So this is a four year political career. Preceded by just years and years. and years of him doing a pretty. much not very much and being being a, being high. for a good period of this, of this, of this time. So, yeah. So he is now. He is I mean, if he pulls this off. Yeah. And this, you know, we're we're in no way in hell territory, which means, you know.

Yeah, this is a real possibility. I've never I've never thought of him. as a serious contender until I watched his speech. And I was like, oh, wow. He really is charismatic. This is a well-written. Well, let's. Well, let's look at this. To be to be named Kennedy a Kennedy Air. and to be willing to do anything. I mean, I mean anything there is nothing.

stop at nothing to do to get what he wants. The most amoral president, who. are the most. amoral human being next to only Donald Trump. I mean, JD Vance, maybe as as ambitious, more ambitious, as I say, the most ambitious. But still, I think you could you could say you can somehow. see some morality. or grasping for morality.

I mean, he wrote a whole book about this, which is not, you know, is I mean, which there is a genuine element to JD. Vance is trying to at least justify. a, a kind of morality. that doesn't exist for Bobby Kennedy Jr. Well, well. And also, he's just such a character in the way that Trump is a character. with a remarkable past and three wives.

RFK, you know, has a wife who died by suicide, claims. that he, his brain was attacked by a brain worm. Actually, by a worm. Had a strange digital relationship. with a journalist, Olivia Nuzzi, who'd been profiling him. and numerous other other journalists, numerous other relationships which he has in self enumerated. Right. Well, well, his sex diary that that, has been written.

about ad nauseum, his wrestling with Catholicism. So he has that in common with JD Vance. But just it's remarkable. But I suddenly understood what you were talking about. He commanded the stage in a really compelling way. I mean, JD Vance is going to have to. to really think about how he knocks him out, I think. And the beginning of the speech was all about his uncle.

JFK, it was all about his father and how they would never recognize. the contemporary Democratic Party, which polices, you know, how people talk. He was very compelling, the way he laid out his arguments. Right. And just just to be he is he is one member of of a rather vast. family who would take that position about their, their forbearers. and, and the rest of his family has, has,

you know, has, has tried to make it as clear as possible. that he has been thrown out of the Kennedy family and legacy. Right. So the other person that spoke that also has presidential ambitions. and is clearly also possibly a match in terms of ambition for JD. Vance, is Ted Cruz, who will not give up his desire to run for president.

He got completely elbowed out by Donald. Trump in 2016, but he's back. He will always be back. And he will never be president. Why won't he be president? And not least of all because he is. I mean, JD Vance may be the most ambitious man, but Ted Cruz is the most disliked man. There is nobody, nobody who likes Ted Cruz,

nobody who likes Ted Cruz. Well, Mrs. Cruz probably likes Ted Cruz, right? Heidi, who is so meanly I don't know. Why would you say that? I see fair point. Yes. That point, especially after. Donald Trump dis stone was so mean about her appearance. And then Ted Cruz came crawling back to Donald Trump. Exactly. But can we I want to talk about this because it's on my mind. because I just saw it this this Aegean Carol documentary.

Yes. Let's talk about it, which I thought was fantastic. I mean, really first thing it was, it was enormously entertaining to see. It's a it's a great story. Aegean Carol is a great story, which you forget she's been reduced. just to this, to this, to this person who had a, sad and unfortunate interaction with, with Donald Trump. But she's a great character prior to that.

And then on the other side of that and, I, I this when what what are the details? Let me just yeah, let me just set it up because we've talked about the documentary. a little bit before because I saw it probably a few months ago. It premiered at Telluride. It got very limited theatrical release. because I think distributors were anxious politically about it.

And it's incredibly compelling as a documentary. And in a month's time, it's due out to be rented for rental on all the regular platforms. So Amazon, Apple, you can still rent. it ahead of that if you want to do joint. You know, if you want to do a screening at home. or have someone, it's on something called kinema.com. kinema.com. But but she is so compelling as a character.

I mean, she's fascinating to watch. She's wonderful on camera, she's funny, she's self-deprecating, she's super smart. And of course, she had no idea what she was getting into. when in 2019, she decided. to to out herself as having been abused. by Donald Trump in a changing room in Bergdorf Goodman. So there are three really interesting things about about this,

the fact that this actually happened to her. And then she came forward, the fact that this was. so difficult, I mean, this was difficult for her. And she became a kind of kind of anathema. Lost. Lost her job. Your your former employer, the her corporation. What could possibly have been going through their heads? Except those are incredibly stupid people over there.

They fired her after she made this accusation. against against Donald Trump, and then she perfect. And then she persevered. So the perseverance and she were right. And then the winning. Yes. Okay. I just want to highlight the firing because she'd been writing. a column for 25 years for Elle magazine. It was called Ask Aegean. She had a television series that was based on it to Ask Aegean, and it was a remarkable decision for a magazine.

that has billed itself as an empowerment of female magazine. Yeah. L magazine. Sorry. And then they. And then they fired her. Yeah. So they fired her. So she makes this, she writes, she comes forward, describes what happened to her. with Don, with with, with Trump. And at that point, Elle magazine and the Hearst Corporation fire her. And then they say that the firing has nothing to do with the fact.

the these accusations that she made, what goes through people's heads are these. I mean, I know the people at the I know everybody at the, at the upper level of the Hearst Corporation. You yourself were there and this you had left several years before this. And, you know, these are, you know, all I mean, people I know quite well and I am and I socialize with them and.

I guess I've it's never been a question to me. And I've always assumed that they were, in fact, as gutless. and as, and I guess just, just I think, I think they made what they thought at the time, though, I think it was a miscalculation, a business decision. that they didn't want to ruffle anybody's feathers. The president. Well, that's called that's called gutless.

Yeah. I am not called the business. That's not called the business decision. That's called a gutless decision. Actually, the business decision would have been to support her. And I think that would have been probably a very, well, given who that very profitable business. Business decision. I mean, this is just gutless. Yeah, I would, they should be, yes. They should have doubled up pages driven into the audience, which is young women who are largely Democrat, who really didn't like Trump and was sick of men preying on them.

And the other fascinating thing, and Nell Scovell pointed this out, was that she had written a piece for spy magazine, Graydon Carter and Anderson's. magazine that started, I guess, 40 years ago, because they're about to have their 40th anniversary. But she had written a piece in The Spy. about places to have a quickie in New York, and one of the places. she had suggested was the changing rooms at Bergdorf Goodman.

Because they had doors you could lock, they had plush carpets. and, you know, it was a central location. And of course, at the time, Trump owned the Plaza Hotel, which is next door to Bergdorf Goodman. And what I found most compelling about the documentary is how Egan explains. how the assault took place. She runs into Trump, she's coming out, he's going into Bergdorf Goodman. He goes, oh, you're the advice lady because he recognizes her from television.

They have a conversation. It's kind of flirtatious, he says, I'm looking for a gift, takes her up to the lingerie floor, and then the next thing you know, they're in a changing room. And she's like, what's happening? And then it's all over, and she manages to kick him off and get him out and off of her. But once you hear how it happened. or how she says it happens because he still denies. any of this, you you understand it in a way.

that I don't think you do before you hear her say it. Yeah, absolutely. And I didn't, and I've always been, you know, and Trump has gone around. saying a she's not my type, which is then disputed in the course of the trial. because he mis identifies her, e.g. a picture of Jean as Marla maples, his former wife, who I the incredible one would, one would assume is his type. But but and then there's a lot of,

a lot of, has always been a lot of discussion. And the people around Trump will confirm this, that she was at this point, 50, you know, 50 years old or something, something like that. So and Trump is only interested in young women. So and, and you know, people say these things. and then you start to think, well, yeah, that probably is kind of true. But then she explains this and then you hear it.

and you thought, yes, that's of course it could happen exactly like that. Yes. He may be interested in young young women. in models, but he's interested in every opportunity. Here was an opportunity that presented itself and, and then even on her part, you can see she's thinking. Thinking, I mean, she's a journalist. She's thinking, this is going to be a good story. And, and, Don, I meet Donald Trump in, in, in, in, in Bergdorf's.

and even up until that point where he's got her in the dressing room. and it seems like and you can see the, you know, and I especially can that sense of, okay, I can, I can write this and then it goes all haywire. And, well, I think the moment you've just described. where he mis identifies her as Marla maples is fascinating, because you can see the lawyer, Robbie Kaplan, barely able.

to believe he's just done that, because in mis identifying her, he undermines his entire case that she wasn't his type. And the photo is really very clear. She looks identical. Tamala maples. And then when he's confronted. with his mistake, he goes, oh well, the photos kind of blurry. It's blurry. You can see the photo. The photo is incredibly clear and he identifies everybody else. in the photo correctly. Anyway, it's a it's a remarkable documentary.

She's a fascinating character. And she, she's also, I think she seems to be incredibly honest. about the toll it's taken on her. I mean, she talks about how her face changes are over, you know, just ages with the pressure of it, the incredible hostility. she gets online, the threats that she gets, the fact. she has to get security and just the toll the whole thing has taken. And when Robbie Kaplan, her lawyer, reminds her that she's going to face Trump.

in the courtroom, she says she has almost a complete breakdown. She can't speak. She or she, you know, it takes her several hours. to process the fact that she's going to face him. And it's a it's a completely fascinating document. And then there's just this, this other part of this, which this is another. clear representation of how much, how, how, how Trump has intimidated the media at so many levels.

So, so they they couldn't get this documentary distributed. They made this documentary. They financed this document. This is an independently financed documentary, a group called Impact Partners, which does a lot of documentaries but independently finances them. And then, you know, traditionally you go to film. festivals and, and then distributors,

you make a deal with distributors, they and hopefully you get a bidding war going. And this was one of the premier films. at Telluride two years ago, I believe. And and they got nothing. Nobody wanted to touch this. And this has been true about every other film. The apprentice had a similar experience you couldn't get. People are just saying no, you know, this is what you know, we're, you know, big companies.

Why why would we want to antagonize the Trump administration like that? And this is finally I mean, they've they've gone in a, you know, a. really circuitous workaround of getting this distributed out. outside, in theaters. and then and then it's gone to a video on demand. So, you know, in I mean, people are saying, well, it's it's, you know, you know, they're not afraid.

They're showing this this, they're now showing this, this film, but it actually is a clear divide. between distributors picking up a film, financing, financing a film, making a financial commitment to the film, making a promotional and putting their imprimatur on it. In other words, they are sort of like the publisher at that point. But VOD means that they're kind of. just like the newsstand, you know, they'll they'll put anything.

I mean, I mean, you you pay a fee for it. And, and they collect their little fee, but they. but they have no real direct involvement with the product itself. Well, it will be available on Apple. It will be available on Amazon, where I guess it will sit alongside the Melania documentary. And I guess they're going to mark it along the lines, market it along the lines of, you know, the documentary Donald Trump doesn't want you to see. Yeah, but they won't be there'll be very little marketing money for it.

So, so watch it. Yeah. So watch it. All right, Michael, we'll be back on Tuesday. Back inside Trump's head. and have a wonderful rest of your weekend. And don't forget book your tickets to come and see us. live in LA at the Terror Gram Ballroom. And it's beast dot hub forward slash ITH live. October 20th October the 20th where Michael will be unfiltered.

Big thanks to our. production team Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passa, Heather Pesaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many BBC tier members now. There are two many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.