This Evidence Proves Trump Had a Stroke: Doctor | The Daily Beast Podcast

We've seen many patients who've had previous strokes for President Trump. There is video of him shuffling. Then I saw him cradling his right hand in his left. He garbled words, and that's suggested to me. Along with their 325. milligram of aspirin from which you and we take, for one thing. Right. He's had, prior stroke. He's suffering, two kinds of complications. from stroke.

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. And lots of us who have been watching. Donald Trump over the years realized that the awesome changes. in his physical appearance, in his apparent physical abilities, his speech and of course, all of this is very easy to chronicle. because he's been in public life for at least 40 years at this point. So one doctor, a pulmonologist and a board certified internist, says it's. very clear from looking at him, even though.

Donald Trump is not his patient, that the president has had a stroke. It happened last year. The fact he's been talking about taking aspirin. and the amount of aspirin he's taking. 325 minutes is indicative, indeed, that he's had a stroke and that he's largely recovered. But there are symptoms of having a stroke that this doctor has identified. And we got into a fascinating interview about what those symptoms are.

and how they impact decision making and how they impact reactions. to certain situations and overreactions to others. And, well, it's a really interesting conversation. Stay with us. Because he also goes through how often presidents. in their role are actually not well supported by the medical teams. They have around him. You would think that they would automatically get the best. health care in the country, but that's not in fact what happens. So let's get into it with Doctor Bruce Davidson.

Very excited to. be joined by Doctor Bruce Davidson. Can I call you Doctor Bruce or is that too informal? No. It's fine. Whatever you like. All right. Doctor Bruce has such a nice ring to it. So, Doctor Bruce, when did you first observe. that you thought the president might have had a stroke? When I read.

the report of his interview with the Wall Street Journal. I didn't, I didn't read that article, but I read the report that he was taking 325mg of aspirin. And that is only recommended. for people who've had a stroke to prevent his second stroke. from a partially blocked artery, major artery in the brain. So when I read that, I said, well,

he's had a stroke and he's taking the right medication. And, and that. was followed by reading several, physicians. advising the public that you should never do that. And, that irked me because that's wrong. I mean, The Washington Post had, a doctor when, who was the health commissioner of Baltimore?

Regular columnist, apparently no one. Yeah, you never do that. She wrote. And then, a cardiologist. who was the physician, apparently for, Vice. President Cheney said that's never the thing to take. Well, the 2021 American Heart Association guidelines. for people who've had a stroke to prevent another stroke. Call it level one evidence that you take 325mg of aspirin a day.

And that's based on an excellent study. It was published God had solved 15 years ago. that showed people who did that and took another pill, clopidogrel. For the first 13 months. had only a. 12% recurrence at the end of a year going forward. And that's a that's a very good result. So so that's what got me started on this that I read.

He's taking a pill. And I said only one thing. You take that for and that's a prior stroke. So just to have an understanding. of this, you did basically medical detective work. This is a specific treatment for a specific condition. What does 325mg. or mgs of aspirin look like? How many pills is that a day? This one typical aspirin pill once daily is okay.

And and if you don't have or if you have, if you don't have symptoms of a stroke. or you haven't suffered a stroke, you don't need to take an aspirin every day, right? You don't take that. Some some people take, a baby aspirin, 81mg. And if you've had coronary disease, you take perhaps an aspirin. plus one of these other drugs or one of these other drugs if you have a stent. But that dose is solely for that, and it's the right thing to take.

And I was pleased to see, however, he did that, he was taking the right drug for a condition. Okay. Now, can you tell from looking at the president that he might have had a stroke? And I appreciate you can't diagnose him directly. He's not your patient, but you've got years of experience of doing this. And I'm curious if there are symptoms. You see, physically that might indicate he's had a stroke.

Sure. Well, let me just take a moment to give you some background. So I was. I became a board American board certified internal medicine. specialist in 1981, in pulmonary in 1983. and, critical care for 30 years. And when we see patients in the hospital or in clinic, even if we're seeing them. for lung problems, we look at their drugs, we look at their past history.

We see many patients who've had previous strokes, and we know what that looks were. For President Trump earlier in the year, there was video of him shuffling, and I thought that was weird. Then I saw him cradling his right hand in his left, which is a common, involuntary thing. that, people with strokes had done when they have weakness.

On one side, he garbled words, much more. So a couple months ago than he's doing now. Everyone loves something at McDonald's is always something to have. I like to fish. I like it. That implicates Broca's beach area, which is in the frontal left portion of the brain. So left portion and then recently there was video of him walking down.

the stairs from Air Force One, holding the banister with his left hand. Yet his right handed signs with his right hand. So that's suggested to me. And his speech became much better. And that's suggested to me, along. with a 325 milligram of aspirin. for which you and we take, for one thing. He's had a prior stroke. He's recovered from the stroke.

So I now, now. I think again, based on what I'm observing, that he's suffering, two kinds of complications from stroke. What what are the complications? And can I ask you, before we go on to the complications, was also at 911, photos of him with what looked.

like the right side of his mouth drooping. Would that also be symptomatic of a stroke? It could be, but if I'm. correct that he had a left sided. brain infarction, it would be the left. part of the face and the right part of the body show. So? So, Doctor Bruce, what are the other two symptoms you were mentioning? Yeah. Well, it is common after strokes.

for people to have sleep disturbance and, normal sleep is critically important for all of us, but particularly after. you've had a stroke, because the brain has what we call plasticity. That is it can repair itself. and does that primarily during sleep. So, so, but but that requires good sleep. And so the head. to have, President.

Trump doing as he does, sending I guess I don't, I don't I'm not on Truth Social, but I read that he has sent out, tweets, you know, or whatever they're called. Yeah. He's frantically posting in the middle of the night in the middle of the night. And that tells me he's not getting good sleep. when his brain should be letting him sleep. And, that is that's important symptom. And that contributes to ill health and blocks the brain,

fully improving. That's one that the second, we saw with Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman. That is also had a stroke. Right. So the public saw Senator John Fetterman's complication. I think it was 8 or 9 months after his stroke. And after he had had significant recovery, he had, what he described as severe depression.

and depression is quite common after stroke. There is quite early after the stroke. People are depressed because, oh my gosh, it happened to me, you know, but they often recover from that. But then months later they can get significant depression. Now, depression is not always, shriveled up, staying in a corner away from people. There's something called agitated depression.

Agitated depression. I've never heard of that. And people who have been leaders in charge. for their whole life, in finding themself, unable to do what they want to do. and think of the words and express themselves, will develop that sort of depression. and, as I say, we saw with, Senator Fetterman, we saw it afterwards, the press reported.

he was in a meeting with union member teachers union members. and banging on the table and talking about, why do people. why are they all angry at me and and drove his car. to fashion a couple times now, where does that leave us with President Trump? Well, he's he's up at night which. which can worsen depression. It's common to get depression. And, he's angry because he didn't get a Nobel Prize.

I mean, here's a man who's been elected president twice, and really, he cares about a Nobel Prize. I mean, Bob Dylan got a Nobel Prize. You know, what's the big deal? And and, other things seem to get under his skin, and and, so it concerns me, and and, let me take a moment there. to mention what a physician role is.

A physician has three primary responsibilities. The first is relief of suffering. Second, prevent disability. And the third priority is postpone death. That's what we're supposed to do. When I see the president appearing. like a patient having trouble, I want his physicians to to engage. And this illustrates, I regret to say, a.

a terrible increasing weakness. in American medical leadership. that we're suffering from the agitated depression. I've not heard of that before, but it makes total sense. Does some kind of incident like this. impact the ability to make decisions? You mean having a stroke? Yeah. Well, in the short term, absolutely.

Okay. And, we've seen many presidents hide their short term. infirmities, right. And I don't think that's criminal. In the long term, it depends how they recover. and depends how severe the stroke was. And and I think the President. Trump's stroke was not so severe.

And by virtue of the fact that he he hears questions, he responds to questions, he functions and doing other things, I think he, you know, he still has judgment, but depression impacts your judgment. Lack of sleep impacts your judgment. And those are fixable things. If there were someone leading. the mission to fix it, I've got a couple more questions for you.

Just on the president's sort of symptoms. So, so he's got a disproportionate response to problems. A disproportionately angry response to problems. He's got sleep disorder. Is this why we would see him sleeping in the Oval Office, which has now happened more than once, where he's. literally gone to sleep in the middle of a cabinet meeting? Oddly, often when Marco Rubio is talking, I don't know if that's related,

but he's definitely falling asleep in meetings. Yes, excessive daytime. sleepiness or as we call medically, hypersomnia, which is common after strokes, hyper somnolence. Yeah, hydrogen just means excessive sleepiness. And it is due to poor sleep at night, which we we already infer that he has. And, again, it's something that.

in, in stroke survivors, you accept and you help them. get better sleep and you don't buzz their chops over it. But we've but that's something I neglected to mention. I'm glad you brought it up. That reinforces the diagnosis of prior. stroke and poor sleep. Okay, and the president. talks about taking an aspirin. When he mentioned that he'd had a marvelous result,

it aced his MRI as well as some Moca tests. And he said it was because he wanted thin blood pumping through his heart. Lovely thin blood, not thick blood. Is that accurate? Well, it's a they term thinning the blood. Blood has two components. Liquids and solids, cells and parts of cells. So generally in medicine, when we're explaining to patients thinning.

the blood, we're talking about interfering with the liquid parts. ability to coagulate. The solid part has what are called. platelets, fragments of cells. And, when you cut yourself. shaving, it's platelets that go there first to plug that. And aspirin, the other drug clopidogrel drugs like that, another drug. So it stays or,

or drugs that interfere with platelet function. And the goal if you've had a stroke. and you have blockage of a major vessel in the brain, is to stop platelets from sticking to the cholesterol in that occlusion, and, so it's not so thinning. is a lay term, but it's a astringent antiplatelet drug. And at that high dose, he was.

it was 88% effective for people with. I think they had to have 70% or greater of blockage. So that's a terrific result. So, Doctor Bruce, we know that the president, by his own. admission, doesn't really exercise. He has. what for. a lot of people would be a high stress life. It's not clear if he finds it stressful because he seems to enjoy it. so much, which you know, fair enough. A lot of people in power do.

And he also doesn't. have the sort of diet that a doctor would recommend, even his own secretary or his cabinet secretary for health recoiled, when he discovered the president's diet of of chicken McNuggets. And, you know, fried fish sandwiches and McDonald's. What would you be advising the president. if you were his doctor to be eating post stroke?

And would you be advising him to exercise post stroke? Well, I, I want to come back to what should the doctor do? But let me answer your your question. First public figure. is and I've known several. do and say certain things to maintain an image. All right. I don't need to exercise. I can eat McDonald's I, you know, A B and C. when in fact in private they're taking care of themselves and.

it is, it is not uncommon for people for whom, part of their image is to be tough to hide. The illness. An example, you one you may go to lunch. with someone or dinner with someone who you haven't seen in or in a while. And whereas normally they would take a steak and put butter.

and slather it on top, they're eating, a salad. with chicken on top, and you say, what's going on? And they're not going to tell you that they had a heart attack. and angioplasty and a stent. They're going to say, well, I'm trying to control my weight a little bit. And my kids are making me eat a little better. So I really don't put any stock in what the president says. He's doing, or others say about what he's doing.

And I want every patient to recover after an illness. And if I'm correct, and he had a stroke and he's. I think based on what I've seen, he's made a pretty good recovery. And and you get there, according to the American Heart Association. 2021 guidelines, which I've cited to you about the medicine, you control blood. pressure, you do some exercise, you do control.

diet and cholesterol and so on. And for all I know, he's he's done those things and is doing those things. This might be the most shocking revelation we've ever had on the podcast. That doctor that President Trump might be a secret. salmon eater, that he might actually be eating salads. I've often wondered, actually, because Melania obviously. looks after her figure and they have a white House chef, whether or not he was in secret eating salmon and salad in the evening.

So at least you've raised the possibility. So, Doctor Bruce, what are those. really unsightly bruises. that he has on his hands that he uses makeup to cover? But I noticed when he was in Davos, even the makeup wasn't covering what. what looks like really black bruises on his hands at this point. What is that to do with. Well, to be honest, I haven't seen Sheen.

More than black and blue, what we call black and blue marks of tissue. So first the skin gets thinner as we get older. Second, if a patient is taking a steroid. for any reason, prednisone, hydrocortisone. that thins the skin systemically. so it's more prone to bruising. Third, 325mg of aspirin.

every day, interferes with your likelihood function. So if you bang your hand around or shake hands a lot or use. it, it's going to bruise. So, you would expect that. to occur on the left hand as well. But if he's not using his left hand for writing, for shaking hands and Sean, it wouldn't happen there. So we've we've been chronicling his. bruising at The Daily Beast because obviously it's,

if the president has a serious health concern, we want to monitor it. And he's definitely had bruising on both hands. What about his swollen ankles? His cankles, as they've become known as. well. Again, I've just heard about those. I haven't seen them. Medically. I need to send you some photographs. We have photographs of his legs which which don't appear to indent at the ankle. They just go straight up and down as if they were a tree trunk.

Okay, so. So, what he has said, I think, or they've said is he has, venous insufficiency. And that is certainly common as people get older. What's that about? Particularly in women who've had, who who've had babies. Okay. The uterus presses on the left iliac. vein and impedes flow.

Now, how does blood get from your ankles. up to your heart and then to your lungs? The muscles of the legs constrict, and the veins. themselves have muscles in the walls, and they constrict. And then you inhale. And that suck helps suck the blood up. Well, as you get older, you're still inhaling, but the muscles. on the veins of your legs become weaker.

And an abdomen that's been big. If you've been overweight or obese, that presses on the veins. and, just being on your feet a lot of your life, will lead to swelling in the legs. And and I can't tell you how so many patients have that. And and, elastic compression stockings are a good thing to wear. I've done a lot of work with blood clots in the legs and blood clots in the lungs.

Researched a lot of anticoagulants and this disease. And it's very common to have that after an episode of deep vein thrombosis. you might have had when you were younger, if you're hurt your knee. and it was wrapped up. So, so, it can also be a sign. of, more severe disease, but, you know, and, and or of, of sleep. apnea, for example, which is very common.

among older folks, but one doesn't need to invoke all of that. And again, chronic venous insufficiency that legs, again, if, if he were my patient, I would have him wear. elastic compression knee high elastic compression stockings. Job sigvaris 20 to 30mm at the angles of pressure. And, that would relieve that and would also protect his skin down there.

Interesting. Well, I think he's tried wearing compression. socks and rejected them on the grounds that he didn't like it. There will be a lot of people listening and watching, this podcast, Doctor Bruce, who have familiarity with this either. themselves, they've had a stroke, or they have a relative who's had a stroke. What is the prognosis if the president is now. entering his ninth decade? He'll be 80 this summer.

If you're right, and he has had a stroke, but he's taking 325 megs of of aspirin. What? What if you were his doctor, would you be giving him a sort of health span, a life span at this point? No. Because, well, the evidence is, I think I mentioned I think that study, which is a very. good study, New England Journal Medicine, I think if I'm recalling,

had 80% with no recurrent stroke at the end of a year, and if you've gotten over that scary period, you may go long term on the right medicine. As I mentioned, there's. another medication, Sue, which stays all that maybe he's taking. Or maybe they've considered, adding that the American Heart Association. also gives a qualified recommendation for the reason. you don't give a you know, I think you've got five more years.

It is because, as I mentioned, our job is to prevent disability and postpone death. And, we're not supposed to quit doing that. unless it gets in the way of the highest priority relief of suffer. and that's why when someone has a terminal cancer. causing pain in their bones, we give them narcotic.

because we're trying to relieve suffering, but we know it will not. It's going to cause disability. and it's going to hasten death, but it's a higher priority. And. And if I could, I'd like to address, his physicians and, and that issue at this moment because. Absolutely. Go ahead. Because. if you if you have a patient. who is, who's demonstrating,

as you've described, daytime excessive sleepiness. and doing all of this writing at night, and you're the doctor, and then you see something that looks like. it could be or May is agitated depression. It's your job. to, to take your patient. and get that person, man or woman.

to follow instructions and, and, and if I could. there is a very famous terrific, physician, Doctor Franklin. Goldfinger, who is the editor in chief, the New England Journal of Medicine, who was a gastroenterologist specializing in the GI tract, been a professor at Boston University. who himself developed terminal cancer of the esophagus of his own.

GI tract, the tube that carries food from the mouth to the stomach. And he wrote a. a magnificent, I think, article near the end of his life at which he indicated. doctors have been sort of deferring to him because he's an expert in that field. And he said, that's not what I want. He said, a doctor needs to be. authoritarian, paternalistic.

and, and, dictatorial. At least presenting that to the patient. The patient doesn't have to follow. But but to put options in front, he said it it's like being a used. car salesman that's shirking your responsibility, not being a doctor. Now, what do we have? Well, well, the white House physician is a doctor. Barb. Barb Abella, who's the emergency room doctor from the military?

And, that's. not what you want when your patient is someone in their late. 70s and has plenty of illnesses, or or a. history of some or certain to get them because. I'm sorry. All of us deteriorate as we age. It's expected. You want a board certified internal medicine specialist, perhaps a geriatrician, who also has the stature and weight.

to talk to the president in that way. And, instead, we have an emergency. medicine doctor who's in the military. So the president is his commander in chief, and you can't speak that way to your commander in chief. Your primary responsibility as physician is to the patient, of course, but you're also responsible to the country.

Are you auditioning for the job? No, thank you, but. thank you very little. It's Chevy Chase, you say, but but you see, there's potentially a backup. And that is the surgeon general. The country, the nation's physician. But and we have had strong surgeon general's in the past. We had, Doctor Everett Koop, a pediatric surgeon. who, apparently was a devout, conservative Christian.

But when it came time to recommend prevention. for HIV, he he fearlessly did. So we were we had Doctor David Satcher, who was a, who I got to know a little bit. because I was director of the Tuberculosis Control program in Philadelphia. and president of the National TB Controllers Association. I was at CDC. Doctor Satcher was the director of CDC.

And, I was in meetings with them occasionally. And and he was a listener, he asked penetrating questions, and then he did decisive things. that helped our country control our TB epidemic, HIV. related, even before we had drugs for HIV. So we've had Surgeon. General's like that, and now we have no surgeon general at all. So who is to be the backstop for doctor Barb Abella? We don't have one.

Not an official one. Okay. So. in my dreams, I would have the president treated. by his Cabinet Secretary for Health and Human Services, RFK junior. I would lock them in a room together, and I would ask. RFK junior to give us his diagnosis of the president. What do you think about that idea? I think, you need to be locked in a room and have your medicine.

Medicine, and, All right. So, so on tonight. Let me let me answer. I can, I can address that. We have had non physician HHS secretaries in the past. We've had physicians. Doctor Louis Sullivan, who was terrific. I think he was during the first Bush administration. But we had Joseph Califano, who helped put together. a lot of important things, you know, in the past.

But but Robert Kennedy, has said he can walk through an airport. and see kids with dysfunctional mitochondria. I mean, this man is not only so medically ignorant, he is pompous beyond belief. He's he's recommending fat in milk and. we see sycophantic,

publicity hungry physicians. endorsing that, saying, well, fatty. milk is better than drinking sugary soda. A really, I guess being assaulted is better than being murdered. So Robert F Kennedy is clearly not the person to do this. You know, there are prestigious older physicians who could. completely in private. This needs to happen.

And the president is entitled to have it happen in private. But help guide him. For example, there's good treatment for, for sleep disturbance, some treatment for it. We have excellent treatment. clinical trials specifically for post-stroke depression. There's a drug methylphenidate, Ritalin, legal speed. You've heard of it? It's for cancer, hyperactive and paradoxically, it calms them down.

Well, that's been used specifically. for post-stroke depression and shown good results. And, Doctor Bruce, do you think that, President Trump is actually displaying agitated symptoms. of the symptoms of agitated depression? So that would be the sleep disorder. That would be the tweeting in the middle of the night. That would be the sensitive skin, both physically. and emotionally.

Well, I think what. I have seen, things that appear consistent with it, and I mentioned one of those two getting bent out of shape about this Nobel. Prize, said he would threaten Greenland to end. and contact the head of Norway. About the Nobel prize committee. The. I mean, would you contact the president if the. if the Oscars weren't awarded to your favorite movie or country's movie?

I mean, it's it's not fully rational. It seems like agitated depression to me. And and there is now a new treatment. that's gonna sound weird, but it isn't. It's, external, magnetic, stimulation. Oh, the president's going to like that. He loves magnets. He loves magnets.

Maybe that's why he's fixated on them. Well, this is FDA approved. The Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota does it. I have a very good friend who's brilliant in in my field. in Europe who is suffering severe depression. It's all over Europe. He had it done. It's multiple treatments. The adverse effects are nil. It's not a pill. And there is a long lasting benefit.

And, and, perhaps these things have been tried, but I get the impression they're not. Do you think that John Fetterman helped people understand. strokes in the aftermath of strokes more by talking about his depression? I mean, it's quite unusual for a public figure to do that, especially a politician. I do, I, admire it, and I admire the fact that he's, I wouldn't expect.

otherwise from him because he's. his whole image is he's a tough guy. But I admire the fact that he's continuing to go to work and. and I think use a tablet to interpret words and, and show so, so many other people because we have something like, 780,000, 800,000 strokes a year in this country.

And many of those people don't die, and they're discriminated against. They're written off in a variety of ways. And, the more people we have who. who, like Senator Fetterman have a have a public podium who, there are I don't necessarily agree opinion wise with everything he does, but that's totally separate from this medical issue. And I'm glad you raised it. I tired that he's doing that. And I think it's good for the country. And we need a public health figure.

like a surgeon general to lead on those things. And regrettably, our last one, Doctor Vivek Murthy, in 2024, I think, said the nation's biggest problem was loneliness. So. So if if John Fetterman is going to step in. and help lead on stroke rehabilitation, I welcome it. I should point out, we, we called the white House. to ask whether or not President Trump had had a stroke.

And he said, in fact, it was from Caroline. Leave it. She said, these allegations are absolute bullshit and perhaps even slanderous. The individual. making this false claim is a left wing nut job and Democrat activist. Are you a Democrat activist? Are you, are you a nut job? Well, it's good to be noticed, I. but I want to address your question. I'm,

I vote for the person I have voted for. Republicans. I did not, you know, I'm a nut job now. People think I'm too conservative. You know, to traditional, and, so be it. But, but I do feel a duty. I went to public health school.

When? At a time when you spent 11 months in the classroom at Johns Hopkins. And I ran a TV control program. I was president of the national group elected by my peers. And, I feel strongly about public health. There are a lot of things going wrong in medicine now. Many, and I speak out about them. And, does that make me a nut job? Yeah. Well, I think we know where the nut jobs are in public health at the moment.

Anyway, doctor Bruce, thank you so much for joining us. We love to have you come back and talk about, RFK Junior's first year. Thank you very much for joining us. Well, thank you for the opportunity to talk to the public about, health. Yeah. It's very interesting in your perspective. about the different characters that fulfill the role of surgeon General. It's really interesting. It's not a discussion that really people seem to have. Thank you again. Thank you.

I found that a fascinating discussion. I've never heard of agitated depression before, but of course, now I think about relatives who've had strokes, and I now understand that perhaps some of their behavior. and their recuperation falls under that term. And certainly it does seem that the president is becoming. more and more agitated that his reactions to things. are out of all proportion to the thing itself.

And it must be very difficult being around him and trying to contain that. And I also thought Doctor Bruce's observation that people who. you would assume get the best medical care in the world perhaps don't. And the difficulties of keeping all this private, which of course, they're entitled to do. But as as voters, we're also entitled. to know what's really going on here, what's really going on here. And if we've learned anything.

from the experience with the previous president, President Biden, we need more insight and more clarity. into the states of the president of the United States. His health. If you have been. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to leave your comments. Have you noticed anything that's different about the president's. behavior, his attitude, his speech patterns? I thought it was very interesting. He's right handed, but he's using his left hand to come down. those treacherous steps from Air Force One.

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