The Sleazy Reason Trump Can’t Quit Ghislaine Maxwell | Inside Trump's Head

To wrap up what is inside Donald Trump's head here about Ghislaine. Which is that she comes from the same world that he comes from. So there is this sympathy. There is this, you know, this person who knows this person. who does this, and this is where the money moves and all that. That's Donald Trump's world. And and it's no coincidence. that Dylan has known Donald Trump for many, many, many years.

I'm Joanna Coles, back with Inside Trump's head. Part two of the Glenn Maxwell Proffer transcripts, which, as I've said, is better than any thriller you are going to read this summer. It's your new beach reading. Take it for your long weekend, settle in. and read all about the woman who is inside Trump's head this week.

All right, Michael, we're going to pick up where we left off. Still deep knee deep in this Glenn Maxwell transcript. But you're hearing that he's calling round he Donald Trump this morning. I mean, I mean, I think she is you know, inside Trump's head. is this week, Glenn. And I think it's very it's it's it's high pressure for him. And he's he's calling around. and he's saying literally what should I do about Maxwell.

And I think it's a divided on on on his in. in his mind because he knows he will get flak. He knows it is actually not the politic thing to do. But at the same time, I think he wants to pardon her. I think he feels he feels something for her. And, and in addition to owing her something. because she, she delivered on what she had to do,

he was he has never done anything inappropriate. He's a great guy, the greatest guy. And and I never saw the birthday. No, no, no birthday letter. Right. So, so. But he doesn't have to. I mean, he's gotten that now. He doesn't have to pardon her. But I was going to ask you about MAGA because MAGA is split on this two. You know. I think it's I think it it is politically fraught for him to do this. But I think he will do this because he wants to do it.

because he owes her and because he feels some sympathy for her. So that's that's the interesting question. Why would he feel sympathy for her? Okay. Well, why would he feel sympathy for her? You know, let's go back to the pardon culture of the Trump White House. He pardons. rich criminals. Well, he pardoned January 6th. Okay? They were over. Here. That's that weren't. Rich. No, but they were. Remember? Remember?

He was on trial for January 6th. And because he became the president of the United States, he could disappear. That and, and now he disappears. All of the January 6th defendants, or convicts, because a because they they, they bring up the question of January 6th again. and also because in some weird inverted sense of fairness, I think he believes, you know, I got I got off for this.

They should get off for this. But then there's this other category, and it is literally rich criminals. He has a feeling for these people, and he may identify with them. because he's kind of a not kind of he is a rich criminal. Right. But there's a more of a structural point here. and you have to see it. There's a whole, you know, the layers around Donald Trump. of of the, the, the Trump circle, the loyalists and the Trump circle.

And that is probably includes, I don't know, there could be 100 people in this in this category. A lot of these people are making money off. of, let's be perfectly blunt, selling pardons. As selling pardons for saying so. And how do they make money from it? They go if you want a pardon. If you're a rich criminal and you want a pardon, you go and hire one of these people for the express purpose.

And this is not technically illegal. You're hiring someone to do a service for you, which is the represent you to the president. You're not on the president's payroll. You're not a, You're not a government employee. You're an outside person who has a relationship. with this white House and with President Donald. So. So these are like lobbyists for people who are in jail who want pardons. Exactly. Oh, now, the the structural advantage to Trump.

is that this is how these people are paid. And they, they are paid in, in not only. not only to achieve a pardon for someone, but they're paid for their loyalty to Donald Trump. So Donald Trump is getting two benefits here. He's getting a lot of people who are constantly in attending him. Right. Who he doesn't have to pay. Right.

And they are incentivized because of what. they're selling to be loyal to Donald Trump. All right. So I've got a list, actually, of the people that he's pardoned. since he came into power in his first administration, he granted 237 in the full four years to date. Already he's done 1600. Now most of those are January the 6th. But what stands out, Carlos Watson, do you remember him? I know Carlos Watson.

You knew Carlos Watson. Oh C media I didn't know. What disreputable person having. I known. Because that was a white collar crime. I mean, he, he pretended he. He had a company and he tried to raise money. through, through means that were fraudulent. Right. Okay. So and, and and. Yes. And y and now, curiously, Carlos. Watson is a liberal, you know, that was his whole point.

I mean, he went. To Harvard, right? I don't know where he he went to college anyway, that's. You know. But at any rate, at any rate, he is, you know, a perfectly nice fraudster, you know, a true white collar fraudster. And, and so this is not an ideal logical pardon. This was because he knew the right people. He had the money, and which enabled him to make the right context,

contacts who could then represent him to the president in the United States. Okay. So then we have the Chris Cillizza that got a lot of attention. because they're a reality television couple who got convicted of fraud. I mean, almost all the people that he's, given pardons. to Michelle Fiore, who is a Nevada politician who was convicted of diverting. donations, the Chris Lees I've mentioned there was a health care. exhibit called Paul Wohl SAC, for tax crimes.

They're all white collar crimes. Michael Grimm, the former New York congressman, tax tax fraud. Larry Hoover was a gang leader. I don't know him. Do you know Larry Hoover just got a federal sentence commuted. It says here. And then there was the Arkansas state. senator convicted of bribery and tax fraud, who was pardoned. Jeremy Hutchinson. So. Yeah. No, I mean, this is this. Is all because people are basically hustling him and lobbying him.

because it's white collar crime and they're not a danger to. No. No, I don't even think that that's that that's the issue. I mean, he can excuse a danger to other other people. And there have been instances of that of pardoning. people who you wouldn't want, necessarily want on the street. But these are. these are people, as I say, who they're buying the. Pardon. They're buying.

And and you do this by, by hiring one of these, one of his people. And by the way, it's not necessarily certain. that if you hire one of these people, you're going to get a pardon. But but it certainly it certainly puts you in the running. And it's how he gives work to friends. Yes. Exactly. Okay. It gives worked for and so so what are the benefits here of. of pardoning Jalen. Well as I say I mean he feels. that he owes it to her.

And but. But she's done it now I mean so does he have to give her. No I don't think I don't think he does. I mean, unless a deal has been made and let's not discount that. Right. That a deal has somehow been community rated. After all, she has been moved from bad prison to good prison. Yeah. And also, what was amazing. And I might have to do a dramatic reenactment here was Todd Blanch.

And the way the interview ended. I think that the other thing is we don't know what she has. So if she did, in fact, leaked. leak the incriminating birthday message. Which was the picture of the nude women. with Donald Trump as a signature for her pubic hair. Yes, precisely. Maybe she has other things. You know, those those photographs, for instance, that that.

that I saw that I believed were probably in Jeffrey Epstein's safe when, when when it was raided, a set of about a dozen snapshots, with of of Trump with. some of the girls who were at Epstein's house. in Palm Beach, girls who was topless, I don't know their ages. And it was not clear, in the, in the photographs. Does she have copies of those photographs?

She would have been there. My understanding was when they were taken. Right. All right. So I just want to read you the last bit. So this is Todd Blanch wrapping up the proffer as it's officially known. Which which you've reminded us. Well, I think it's very challenging to talk about everything we've talked about. And, you know, in one and a half days or in just a period of hours. So I'll talk to Mr. Marcus, her lawyer, about kind of what we're going to do next, if anything, this know and I don't know. And I'm not being coy. I just I don't know yet, I don't know.

So we do I have a lot. We have we have some work to do, i.e. he's going to go back and talk to Donald Trump. because this is all audience of one, as you're always saying, we'll do it with your lawyers to the extent we have questions or follow up. And this has been very helpful. I think it's it was you, you know, who kind of. said you wanted to talk, but we gladly accepted it. So I do appreciate you being willing to meet with. us, and I expect we'll be in touch soon. But extraordinary, isn't it?

That's the number two in the Justice Department to a woman. who was convicted for 20 years of sex trafficking. Let's let's just bend over and, I mean, it's just amazing to me. And this is why this stuff has to be passed line by line by line. It is written with clues about the Epstein case. completely. And actually a good question is why they released it, but because, again, they had no obligation. I think they released it because they thought nobody's going to read it.

It's too long. Nobody's going to read. Yes. And also the headlines are clear. Donald Trump. So did nothing inappropriate, a great guy and no birthday letter. Okay, so the other thing. I thought was really interesting, and it was the settling of scores. of, around women around, Epstein. So we have a saying that basically Fergie. So, Sarah Ferguson, who is married, as we know, to Prince Andrew, long term, just friends.

Let me let me preface that just just a second, because one of the things that you get here, which you don't really get from any of the other accounts. because they're not inside accounts, is the life of Jeffrey Epstein, right? What is going on here, who he's courting, who he's seen, how he is doing, whatever it is that that that he does, you know, in a business context, which is still not exactly clear. here, but, you see, you begin to see a greater picture of, of the life.

And I mean, one of the things that you see is that he spent I mean, what. did he spend his time doing other than getting massages and happy endings? He, he spent his, his, his life looking for real estate, which is what she was she. Right? She helps him at the beginning. Right. They're introduced sort of on a blind date, and he says, oh, I need to find a new apartment. She's looking for a place for a dad. They connect. Right?

So he's buying these massive pieces of property, a very expensive pieces of property, and then developing these massive, expensive pieces of property of which she is a key player in. Now, where does the money come to buy these massive pieces of property? And, I mean, I mean, these are I mean, some of these are useless. I, the island in the Caribbean, which is, which she describes kind of as, as rustic. Right.

And by the time they're finished, it's, you know, he's he's built. a white Lotus set. Right. Although it was only $7 million. The island. Right, which I thought was quite low for an island in the Virgin Islands. Well, have you ever bought one? No, I haven't, I haven't bought one. I mean, because it's not really. the land is the fact that you have to bring in everything to it. Yes. Yeah. No saying that, you know. So this is, tens of millions. If not $100 million to develop this, this island. Yeah. And and then you have, you have the,

you know, the property in, in New Mexico, the largest piece of privately. owned property in New Mexico, the ranch, which Glen then proceeds to fill with animals. So, and again, we don't know where does the money come to do this. We don't really see the businesses doing, but suddenly, you know, he's he's buying, buying this, this real estate. And that's. one, one aspect of the life that you see.

But then the other aspect is all these people. that he's involved with who are, you know, who are clearly facilitating this. life of, of, inexplicable wealth and, and which is fueled on the back of this. really talented social climbing. Yeah. Really. Okay. So we've got Sarah Ferguson married to Prince Andrew, who we know. is a regular visitor to Epstein's mansion and to the island,

and ended up doing a 12 million pounds settlement. over allegations that he had slept with Virginia Giuffre. Right. Fergie. His wife, according to Glenn Maxwell, is basically throwing herself at Epstein. Epstein, meanwhile, as we have said in inside. Trump's head a couple of weeks ago, throwing himself at Princess Diana. Okay, but let me just say that, Fergie, we we do know that. Epstein bailed her out of of a deep financial difficulty.

She is in at one point. Right. So she's giving him social cover and bringing Prince. Andrew to him again as social cover and bait. And, you know, you get these calls from people saying, oh, I've got Prince Andrew coming for dinner. Would you like to come? Because his way of luring people in, because they want to meet Prince Andrew. But then there was one that I found really interesting. And and Glenn, throughout the transcript is sort of saying. that she was going out with him, but was she really?

They only slept together once, then they didn't sleep together again for another nine months. No, no, no, but but there's this other thing. They didn't have sex. They had sex once, but then they travel together and they sleep together. In the same bed. Right? But they don't have sex. But she she describes him. She then comes to realize that he may have had. lots of other women going on at the same time, and she's clearly very envious or jealous of his relationship with either. Anderson, who was right, who becomes Eva Dubin and he was a miss Sweden, right?

Yes. Okay. And the do bins even do bin. Oh, Eva Anderson marries Glenn Dubin. They become a very important social couple. Yeah. And, Eva Anderson then becomes a doctor. So right in this she's she's a I mean, this is what, this is what. Jeffrey paid for her in medical school. To. I don't know, I know, I know that there's a later girlfriend who he who he does end to dental.

Dental school. Yeah. And, but but, you know, another one of these, these things. And it's so Eva Dubin who was obviously, you know, a model, Miss Sweden. But then the early pictures. Yes. But then in the transformation, she's. then becomes a very estimable doctor. I mean, it's just full of things. It's the best summer read. I don't want to sound cynical or mawkish or malevolent about this, but it really is.

bursting with clues as to the questions that have dominated or. Too enthusiastic. Or too enthusiastic. But it is, it gives so many clues to. how did Epstein make the money and why did people go and hang out with him? Yeah, no. In end of this life that he that he lived in. and she's kind of. she clearly doesn't or at least represents that she doesn't. entirely understand the life.

So even even when we look at this part and in a lot of a lot of the. a lot of trying it, trying to parse this, is that his social climbing. was on the back of the plane, who was well-connected in British society. But she says, no, no, no, no. He was already well connected before I met him. He was already moving. He was already he already knew people. And in fact, the the the the the Princess Diana chapter.

in which which we had talked about on a couple of episodes. ago, ago in which I talked about about that. he and Trump had a competition who could sleep with Diana first. and that Jeff, Jeffrey Epstein had this. weird role. in which in which he was the person at functions. where Diana was present,

when that seat beside her became empty. He was the seat. For Jeffrey Epstein was then pushed in so that she could never have. She would never have an empty seat beside her, and that Trump was very envious. that, that Epstein had had achieved such a position. Well, and in another weird turn of events, Diana then goes out with Dodi Fayed. So it's not so far, it's not such a stretch. that she would have actually maybe gone out with Jeffrey Epstein.

He was a bachelor, was living in New York. He had a huge house. He clearly had lots of money to give her the lifestyle that she wanted, but she ends up going out with Dodi Fayed, obviously ending in a terrible, terrible car crash. But his father, the owner of Harrods, Mohammed Al Fayed, then goes on to be accused after he's. died by more than 300 women. Worse, kind of the worst. Kind of sexual abuse. I mean, that almost puts Epstein, actually,

you know, in a different category. And I actually this weekend, when I was back in the UK, ran. into someone who used to work at Harrods, and I was asking them about the story, and he said, we used to hide the women employees. when we knew Al-Fayed was on the floor, because he would come after them. No old man Al-Fayed is clearly, clearly. he may establish he is the worst boss of all time. Worst boss of all time. I mean, the scale of it and in particular, you know, you think of Jimmy Savile,

I mean, hundreds of children that he abused. It's just I don't know these guys. It's just so weird. So weird. Anyway, we've got after we've gone off track, we were talking about Trump pardoning people. Enemies of a several. Yeah. Did you get your get your own. Sorry, sorry. I always go back to Jimmy Savile because again, hiding in plain sight. Mohammed Al Fayed hiding in plain sight, Jeffrey Epstein.

actually not hiding in plain sight. Because he wasn't really out there. In fact, he was phobic about going to restaurants, and he liked to do everything in. But but in a in a sense, he was I mean, that's that's I'm not sure, but somebody like Mohammed Al Fayed was hiding this. I mean, the fact that he was jumping on people, the fact that he was, whatever he did, he was malevolent. But but he had the he was all about respectability.

That was the Dodi Fayed thing. Mary Diana. Jeffrey Epstein was. He actually was a show off. Wherever he went, it would be with three young women. Always. And it was as though he wanted. He wanted to be known for this. Maybe he wanted to be caught for this. Maybe he was. maybe, you know, and I always felt that it maybe it was.

It was some kind of joke that he was playing. Come get me. Or right here I am. Here I am. Well, and also the conspiracy theories, you know, Mohammed Al Fayed accused. Prince Philip, married to the queen, of murdering Diana. because they didn't want her to marry his son. Yeah. No. You know, in one of the things, one of the one of the,

the, the Trump attraction attractions. to Jeffrey Epstein was, in fact, this that he went around. Have you seen you know, there's a lot of Trump. Trump talks about Epstein as as did you have you seen this guy? Do you see the girls he's with all the time? Yeah. Okay. All right. So the other person that's in this is Lynn Forester who becomes Lynn Rothschild. Right. So and this is I mean, here, here is a person.

who has been on the edge of the of the Epstein story. But the very edge, I mean, her name does not come up. And and this is a, this is, you know, significant because, you know, the. the Epstein story is always cast by, you know, he's a pedophile. It's young women. It's, but but. Lynn Forester is not a young woman, and she is a person of, of high. standing and accomplishment who is central to the Epstein story.

And and Gillen points to her here. Sure. I mean, her name is Lynn Forester, but she marries a Rothschild. and she takes over the Rothschild bank. She is a banker. She takes over the over the over the bank. And who was she married to? Just remind me who she was married to first. What she was married by. To a guy by the name of Andrew Stein. That's right. Who was, in the early 80s,

the president of the New York City Council. Then the structure has changed, and there's a he. whatever that job is the job. The job title changes. But but a politician in New York, and in fact, Epstein negotiates. Lynn Forrester's divorce from Andrew Stein. And the the,

galanes implication is I don't know this to be true, but. her implication is that Jeffrey. Epstein, Inland Forester, had a relationship. But certainly they ultimately had a business relationship. through the Rothschild bank. And doesn't she also say that, in fact, it was Lynn Forester who introduced Prince. Andrew to Jeffrey Epstein while they were all on holiday in Nantucket. Right. So that's an interesting thing, because, again, it was always the surmise,

was that that Guerlain had the Prince Andrew relationship. and she brought him into the into the Epstein fold. And so she's she's clearly distancing herself from that at this point. Okay. So she's distancing herself from Prince Andrew. Drive by. Hit on Lynn. Slash Rothschild.

And so what you see is, is also a circum a again, the. the view we have is Epstein surrounded by teenage girls. Right. And this suddenly is a view of Epstein surrounded by women who. Highly accomplished. Women who can who can give him something. So, I mean, one does not negate the other, of course, but it's interesting to see them contemporaneously.

So one of the other reasons I found this transcript so fascinating was that. it does have clues about his business, or how she understood his business. And there is a remarkable exchange, where she's talking with Todd Blanch. and he's trying to understand how Jeffrey Epstein made his money. And she says, he told me himself that. he started a business where he looked for stolen money. So if somebody let's see, I'm trying to think of some.

intelligent way to say it, but I can't think of anything. So let's say you have El Chapo. Okay. So pretty insane reference. Oh, God. I don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've got El Chapo and El Chapo is laundering money. Or still he's working with the Sinaloa cartel, and he steals. money from the Sinaloa Cartel, and he moves it to wherever. So he's got steal stolen money from the Sinaloa goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just. And you're like, where does this come from?

Extraordinary. Now, let me let me just. so the deal the jail. that Jeffrey Epstein died in, you know, was also the jail that housed El Chapo. Right. And, I and the rules of this of this jail. Jail? You could stay out of the general population. if your lawyers were there essentially babysitting you. and Epstein had lawyers that were there from the from from morning until.

So you're out of your cell as long as you have a lawyer. coming to talk to you about your case. You brought in lawyers? Yes. You just pay the lawyers to sit there, okay? Yes. And it's very hard to find that many lawyers to pay. So what they what Epstein's lawyers did was hire. the same lawyers who babysat El Chapo. just now. So I and I don't know if that's at all related to what Ghislaine is saying,

but it's that it's these strange intersections at, these strange, underbelly. So strange. It's so strange. You know, I just want to wrap up what is inside Donald Trump's. head here about the lane, which is that. she comes from the same world that he comes from. So there is this sympathy. There is this, you know, this person who knows this person who does this. And this is where the money moves and all that.

That's Donald Trump's world. And and it's no coincidence. that Glenn has known Donald Trump for many, many, many years. Right? And he was friendly with her father. He must have looked at how his father ended up. No. And there is another aspect of this. So so her father bought the Daily News. And that was a deal that both Epstein and Trump were involved in.

And encouraging Robert Maxwell to buy the Daily News. Obviously, that would be good for Trump because he's a tabloid figure and Epstein. fancied himself a guy behind them pulling the strings of the media. And Maxwell did buy it and. then actually went into bankruptcy and everything bad happened. But and even then, Epstein then helped Mort Zuckerman. buy the Daily News out of the out of bankruptcy.

But so, again, continuing this, this who knows who where does the money flow? And there you'll find Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. All right. So I'm going to dive into some comments because I promise we'll do it. And I'm, I'm always thrilled when people write to us, even when they write to us negatively. And I respond to as many as I can, but I can't always get to. as many as we have because we have thousands.

All right. This is from Pauline Brooks. 3221. Putin told Trump to get rid of mail in voting. Trump tweets. He wants to get rid of mail in voting. What other orders did he get and when will he implement. any ideas? Well, well, what Putin said to me. Right. Okay. So all right, so Michael Trump was very quiet for some time. when Elon Musk held court in the Oval Office with his son. Trump was very quiet. I hear he wasn't talking all the time. Why?

That's a good question. Well, he was fuming. He was fuming. That's from Joanne Newsom 5202. He was fuming. I mean, he's furious about this. What was his kid doing in the office? What was what was you know, Musk doing know and ultimately. This to Elon. What are you hearing about what's happened to Elon. Well I am I'm Elon is, I suppose, running a business which is in some some amount of turmoil.

But what's happened to America's party, the new party, the. Well, I. I only know what I, what what I've read about this, which is, is that. Elon seems to have gotten cold feet or thought better of this. or Vance has talked him off. the off the cliff or, or he's biding his time and waiting to see. They're all biding their time, aren't they? I mean, again, one looks at Trump and he just I know that this irritates the white House.

and it gets under his skin, but he doesn't look healthy. Your point that they assume he's just going to keel over one day, that this is not a long, slow decline, that it's full tilt until he stops. means that everybody is just waiting to pick up. Yeah. No, I mean, I, I'm always skeptical of death watch. Well, and. He looks very robust. I mean, yeah, because he may. Have slowed down and. That is it's kind of like a Hail Mary, you know, that we have a problem here.

This is a catastrophe, Donald Trump. How can we solve it? Well, if he would only die. But I think that the. truth is, as politicians and presidents get older and older, which they do because everybody kind of does. And but he's, he's the oldest president we've ever had. Yeah. No, no, I mean, I think that we're seeing this. and we'll probably see an old. we may very well see an even older president than that.

And so the new, the new norm is, is, is, is is different of old people at that age are not. are not singularly healthy in the way that, that someone 20 or 30 years old, 30 years younger would be. And they, they carry on even with swollen ankles. And remember when people thought that it was a sign that Obama was getting older. because he had gray hair, because the job turned him gray?

Okay, now someone here, H van der P578. So that was not Putin in Alaska. How look gullible. The wild is. It was very easy to see Putin yes or no. I'm not even going there okay. That's not a bit of a conspiracy theorist there. I think I have a question, says Alyssa to Merlino. Alicia merlino I have a question. What has Rubio do to stop this insanity? I remember hearing Rubio express a very negative opinion of Putin.

I mean, I, I have no idea what. Rubio does, apparently nothing at all. Nothing at. All. Or if I had to look inside of Rubio's head, it's. I will fix this all when I am president. Yeah, that's what I think, too. He's just sort of. sitting there, biding his time, and he's as quiet as he can possibly be. Right? Notice he says nothing. I was very struck, when they had the leaders of, sitting around the table of European leaders.

and JD Vance, who'd been so aggressive during the first Zelensky. meeting, was clearly just silence. Clearly Trump had said to him, do not speak. And there was a little row of them. Rubio hugs us and none of them said anything. All right, final question. I hope you two bring in some professional. psychologists who can explain the behavior in more depth. It's so deeply rooted and there are so many causes and possibly. various reasons for his behavior. I love Michael's insights. I think you're an amazing interviewer, Joanna.

Thank you for that. I didn't know that was coming. I would love to see someone guest with you that can give even deeper insight. Do we know anybody? Where where? As good as you get. Where? As good as you get. Sorry about that. All right, Michael Wolff, so much fun to go inside Trump's head with you. I wouldn't want to go in there on my own. You know, I should send you you should find a way to do that some time. That would be very scary. I mean, I'm just I'm just trying to think it really is worthwhile.

And, to sit with him. Is it. Is it. There? Yeah. No, no, it's it's it's it's an experience like no other. I have never met the man. I've never even been in a room with email. Yeah, I know it's not odd. I spent nearly 30 years in New York. I've never come across him and never been in the same room knowingly. Never went on the set of The Apprentice. He never. Ever. He never called you at New York magazine. Never called me at New magazine, never.

Been I was, I was, I don't know, there were a couple other people, I think that God has called, but I was the. I received a lot of his calls to the magazine. Well, I think he probably much rather talk to you than me then, but I I've never come across him and I couldn't be more interested. Come across his children, but not him. Well, I think we should set you up. Michael Wolff, what fun. And onwards to our next episode, next Tuesday, if you have been.

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