The Reason Why Trump and His Goons Are Scrambling | Inside Trump's Head

This person. Who I was speaking to yesterday. described it as he said everybody's plotting. Marco Rubio is plotting. Hegseth is plotting. Jared Kushner is plotting. And JD Vance is plotting, but, but JD Vance doesn't really know how to plot. Well, and I think they have JD Vance saying, I'm against this. I don't think it's a good idea, but if you want it, Mr. President, I will support you. And I don't know how he comes out looking loyal,

because it's going to be clear that he was a source on, on this. The only one not we're trying to retreat is he takes him. to to, to, to know that he has to retreat. Okay. So after Michael and I recorded today's Inside Trump's head, we had sensational breaking news that Melania Trump has made a long. and frankly astonishing statement about Jeffrey Epstein.

It's the first time we've ever heard from her in person. about the biggest scandal of her husband's presidency. She claims she never met Epstein until the year. 2000, said she knew nothing about his crimes, and even explicitly denied having a relationship with him. So it really is all quite sensational. And of course, even more sensationally, Michael is actually. suing the first lady himself about Epstein.

We're going to dive into it and analyze every word on our next episode on. Saturday. But don't let the Trumps ability to drive the narrative divert. our attention from what's going on in the Strait of Hormuz. and the peace talks. going on in Pakistan, led by J.D. Vance. Let's get into it. And just a reminder, before we really get into it, because goodness knows there's a lot of urgency today.

Don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. We're independent media. We appreciate your support. You can smash the subscription button wherever you get your podcasts. and subscribe to The Daily Beast for up to the moment, news on what the hell is going on? Michael. Yeah. Joanna. Oh, my God, I have no idea what's going on. Nobody has any idea what's going on that I do. Oh, and I think it's interesting, and I think you can. I think there's sort of a beginning, middle and end here.

And it begins with his threats. I'm going to destroy civilization. And what that meant as soon as he said it is. that he was he was not going to destroy civilization. And and so he got himself into the end. point of something he could not do. I mean, he could not do for, for because it was, morally reprehensible,

because everybody around him, because it it was just in un an unsustainable threat. Also, he didn't know how to do it. How would you destroy civilization? And and also, it's a childish threat. It's like when a child says, well, I'm going to leave you all. out of the house, and then they're hiding in the garden. Totally that. But that meant at that very moment, it meant effectively. the opposite of what he was threatening because it meant it.

It meant because he couldn't do this. Then he had to get out of the situation. So immediately he was ceding the absolute high ground to the Iranians. I mean, I mean, it means he had to accept any possible deal, because what happens if it got to be 8:00 and there was no deal? Well, then he was he was going to be then shown. to be a fraud and a fool and, you know, and and a naked emperor. So he had to do a deal.

And the deal that he did was essentially. Oh, well, you win, we lose. So I mean, there there is no other way to see the outcome. at this point as that the Iranians have. significantly bested the Americans. Now, I mean, he did this thing this two week ceasefire. Now, that's a that's an. within the Trump circle. That's the kind of, running joke.

Whenever he has in whenever he's in doubt, whenever he's in trouble, whenever he's asked a question that he can't answer, he goes to the two week response, we're looking at that. We're going to get back to you in in two weeks. I'm going to have an answer for you on that in two weeks. I mean, everybody goes they look at each other two weeks. And he has he actually has discussed this. And this is not just off the top of his head.

It's a week people still remember two weeks. They never remember now where he came up with that formula. I have no idea. But it actually ten. It totally makes sense who work. And so, so at this point, the two week cease fire. means that in two weeks it will be it. It'll be a situation in which, I if the smoke will, there will be enough smoke so that he won't have to directly face.

the issue that he has achieved nothing in this war. Right. He's achieved nothing. No regime change. They took out the leadership, but it stayed the same. They still have the enriched uranium, which they said, which the Americans said they were after. And strategically, the Strait of Hormuz that hadn't been in play. now appears to be entirely in the control of the Iranians. So, in effect, this has actually been yet another shit show.

No, I mean, I think there's I mean, I mean, just and I think it's worth making the point. The thing that he cannot do. after this two week cease fire is go back to war. So he is locked in. He has locked the Iranian gains in. And I mean. I mean what we're we're so we're in a thing.

a lot of people are talking to you know you know throwing around the Suez Canal. example for the, for the, for the Brits. But it actually is much closer to George Bush. Mission accomplished. Or for Joe Biden's, exit from Afghanistan. It's that moment, those those tipping points, moments. in which you cannot recover. I mean, the Biden administration, there's only really one story in the Biden administration. You know,

it has nothing to do with Joe Biden's senility, has nothing to do with anything. It has to do singularly with the exit from Afghanistan. at that point, which was a, you know, a debacle. He couldn't recover his numbers, never recovered after that. And also the imagery, who can forget the people. clinging on to the planes as they took off? And then falling from the planes and the dreadful loss of life. and the very quick rolling in of the Taliban undermining and.

Yes. No, no, I mean, that was that was 20 years. Yes. So at that the these are, these are those moments which are unforgettable. I mean, you can't I mean war, war, war has the attention of the world and it's the attention. of the world in victory which never comes, or ignominy which at which point we have, we have arrived.

Well, in both of those moments, Afghanistan and mission. accomplished a moments that Donald Trump has himself. repeatedly mocked as mistakes of previous presidents. And his whole thing was, I'm not going to do that. We'll never have a forever war. I would never do that. And look what he's gotten himself into. You know, I think again, and we we've started to have this conversation. I think we should have this conversation repeatedly now that this. this is the moment everything has begun to come apart.

And it's not going this the Humpty Dumpty moment. It's not going to be put back together again. Humpty Dumpty moment. I love that. So. So where does this leave his cabinet? Michael, what are you hearing from inside the white House? About what's inside his head on it? Yeah, totally. And I had this kind of kind of fascinating discussion. Yes. Yesterday with, you know, let me be.

careful in how I characterize this, this person. But I would say that this is a, a highly placed deep state person, who has, a daily interaction. with the white House and this person's. this person's critique of the moment. is that this person let's a void gender here. This person has, has, has, has never seen so many people.

in the seat of power, let's say, who are so rattled, it just, I mean, rattled about everything. Rattled about about their own careers. Right. Rattled about what happens tomorrow. And at some level. rattled about how the government continues to operate. and then at some level rattled about the fate of the of, of the country. And and this person, also says that no one.

is getting a clear message from. police that's quote unquote, and which which. means that that he police the president. of the United States, Donald Trump, is also probably rattled. He doesn't know what's going on. He does not know what to do. He at some level recognizes that he has gotten himself into a corner,

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It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify. Today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial. today, a Shopify eCommerce Daily Beast. Go to shopify.com/daily Beast, that shopify.com/daily Beast. And so. where does this leave Pete Hegseth, Marco Rubio, JD Vance, who I saw in the excerpt from Jonathan Swan and Maggie.

Haberman, this book, which is coming out called Regime Change, that JD Vance, whether or not he spoke to them or not. Let's get to that in a second. Because I have I have some some clear views on that. And I think it actually helps. It's kind of a road map, not the way. the author's intended, but nevertheless a road map to what's going on. But this person,

who I was speaking to yesterday described it as, let's see. He said, he said, everybody's plotting. Everybody is Marco Rubio. This is this is what this person is. Marco Rubio is plotting. Hegseth is plotting. Jared Kushner is plotting. And JD Vance is plotting. But, but JD Vance doesn't really know how to plot. So that was the thing.

And I think you saw so the, the, the New York Times, did a big, you know, lead up to war. Now the, the, the context of these. kinds of pieces is pure Bob Woodward. I mean, you know, Bob Woodward has written, at least. I think, multiple books about about. about various presidents going to war. And that's what sort of the preeminent. newspaper reporters try to,

try to emulate that. And, and so and they got, Maggie Haberman and, and her acolyte, Jonathan Swan, got a lot of people to talk to them, apparently, which is an indication, one indication of people plotting of of of them. planning how they're going to exit this, how they're planning their futures. When you say plotting, do you mean they're plotting their own futures.

and they're plotting others down? Yes. And they're plotting because they know they're in a mess. and they have to figure out their own way out of it without being blamed. That's quite the definition of plot. You got it? Yes. I'm just. And so everybody is in this mix and you can, you can tell a good part of this story is coming from, from JD Vance. and the Vance point of view is, is, is clearly, you know, not me. I was not the one who did this.

I was just, you know, at best, the, you know, you know, trying to be loyal. while I told them again and again and again, this was this was a bad idea. Well, then I think they have JD Vance saying I'm against this. I don't think it's a good idea, but if you want it, Mr. President, I will support you. So he's trying to look loyal, supporting the president, but also advising against. Right. I don't know how he came out looking loyal, because it's going to be clear that he was a source on on on this.

The only one not we're trying to retreat is Pete Hegseth to to to dumb. to know that he has to retreat well, in the middle of Pete Hegseth saying that they can go back in any time they like. And, although there was one, one line and I think it was from this story. where he says, they have the enriched Iranians still owning. The president knows how he can get it out. Watch it. He said, oh, I know he was asked how they will retrieve the uranium.

And he said, that's something the president will resolve. That's you're going to have to try. They're gonna have to try a bit harder. Yes. And then and then, over all of, of this. is that you have Bibi Netanyahu in the Situation Room. So why do we the answer to why we went to war is, is because, you know, Bibi came to Washington. and Trump was like, like, oh my God, these guys are so smart.

They know everything. They're Mossad. And here's the thing, which is always. a kind of Trump thing that Mossad, the the the, you. you don't want to mess with mess with Mossad. It's Mossad. I mean, it's a really I don't know what's gotten into it. Into his into his head. That this is the, the NE plus ultra of. of spies and intelligence.

So alongside us inside Trump's head were alongside Mossad. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. And and b, he seems to have known he seems to have played this exact. Exactly right with everybody else saying, you know, I mean, you know, the Israelis, you know, they're I mean, the Israelis. are there only for one account, which is their own. As, as well they should, I suppose.

But in this situation. and they and the Israelis are always trying to get the U.S. into, into backing their, their, positions. that are, that are fundamental. I mean, are are good for them and bad for everybody else, essentially. Including certainly in this instance, the US. So, also there's, Tucker Carlson pops up in the, in the middle of this. And that's an interesting because he's a direct quote.

So he went on the record here. and we should talk about about about Tucker, because Tucker. has been almost more than anyone on the MAGA side out front, a front on this. I mean, he's been devastating in his in his critique of the president. Tucker is, without question, I think, setting himself up. And for a presidential run. may he is the anti-war candidate, the anti-war MAGA candidate.

So, so that's all all interesting. And the other to me interesting thing is that. this is another example of of another demonstration. of the New York Times failure to portray what's going on. I mean, you know, because essentially it's all they're. the they've laid out the fact it's a portrait of a president who, who, who won't listen, can't understand,

overly impressed spy by the by the people around him, who he thinks knows more than he does and who lives in a place. separate from Cartesian reality. That's that's there. But at the same time, they write this stuff, partly because they're such terrible writers. I mean, it's essentially I could have could have written this and it produces. a Bob Woodward effect,

that, that, you know, that this is a kind of deliberation council process, and within a range of options, a fair minded one is selected. rather than a president who is totally out of the, we're we're not in we're we're so far. out of the realm of normal statecraft. And even that is normalizing that just to use those those words,

the man is a bloody incompetent who does not know what he's doing. and who has committed us to a war that, to an incredibly. costly and destructive war, which, which will gain him nothing. Because because he can't do he can't, he can't. he can't process. Yeah. I mean, but the New York Times have and they've done this repeatedly. Why are we in the Trump mess? Partly because of the New York Times, because they don't have.

the intellectual capability to express what's going on, and they don't have the courage to express what's going on, but mostly because. because they, they, they literally don't have the, the intellectual tools. to describe what's in Trump's head. Well, what's also curious about it is that they, they, they go round the situation room table. They have, descriptions of where everybody's sitting and Trump is sitting to this side.

He's not sitting at the table because he wants to watch the video. that the Iranians have put together all the PowerPoint. And Netanyahu is also sitting to the side. And and basically everybody after Netanyahu has left. goes round and says the Israelis oversell. Particularly John Ratcliffe, head of CIA, says, well, this is what Netanyahu does. He just over sells. And then there is the reference to, you know, Trump weighs it all up and then goes with his instinct.

Yeah. What did you like? What what is his instinct? He has no thought process, no way to evaluate this. He's just a fucking fool. And they can't say this. I mean, they've masked that, and. and and and and that's, that's produced grievous. consequences that we continue after all this time and let's, you know, and Maggie Haberman has been a constant. reporter on this, be she works for the most important.

and influential news organization, and she fucks it up all of the time. because she is and, you know, and she's perfectly reasonable, nice person, a decent person and a good reporter. She's just a terrible writer and a terrible thinker. So she can't express this kind of the what, what needs to be expressed here, which is the president's brain is missing.

Yeah. I it's it's, Well, I'm sure the book will sell. Well, I found the piece pretty riveting reading, actually, because I love all that detail of where people are sitting. But again, it's that thing that the president trusts his instincts. And you're like, he has no instincts. His instincts for what? Well, I know this. A man whose businesses have repeatedly gone I mean, I think it is. so far behind the eight ball at this, at this, at this point in time. And I think the the reading public and the voting.

public is so far ahead of this. And understanding there is something really radically, phenomenally wrong here. And and to treat this as though it is just another. Bob Woodward the president goes to war a a. you know, a typical president. goes to war is is wrong. And, and, and more importantly, unhelpful.

Well, what is interesting is that the Republicans themselves are now. coming out and saying 25th amendment, the president's lost his mind. There's no appetite for this in the MAGA base. We talked on Tuesday about Alex Jones. is ironically calls himself a tree theorist, horrifyingly untruthful most of the time, but on this apparently has got it right. Similarly, with Marjorie Taylor Greene calling everybody in the cabinet, which, of course, she was never invited to join.

So one has to weigh up her personal animus about that. But her saying, you are all complicit, you are all complicit. You know, he's lost his mind. You're not doing anything about it. You have the results of the election round the country, various seats up for grabs. and a big swing to the Democrats, even when the Republicans won. A Republican is replacing Marjorie. Taylor Greene, but with a much, much, much smaller majority in Georgia there. And as you mentioned, you have Tucker Carlson,

who I've now added Rumble to my stable of social media platforms. And he was talking for two hours. This morning, I was watching him about what a terrible mistake. You know, I mean, I, I mean, I've known Tucker for a long time, and I like and I like, I like Tucker. And I think Tucker is often smart and, and Tucker is often the, the whisper behind, any between,

How to, Tucker is a great source. It's been a great source for me. I'm sure he's been a great source for many other journalists. But the thing about Tucker and there's many things you can say. about Tucker's level of ideological opportunism, but one of the things that he has been for many, many, many years, 20 years. consistent about is having is having been in Washington, been around the people who, who make these make the kinds of decisions.

that have almost inevitably resulted in mistakes when it comes to. when it comes to, military engagement. And it's not the military so much as the, as, as the, the arrogance of the civilians who are, who are directing them. I mean, he has been consistent saying that this never, ever, ever, ever. in any circumstance works.

well. And it's always a tendency for leaders of countries, any country. Putin no exception that when things are going badly at home, which obviously they are for Trump, you start meddling abroad. as if somehow by doing that you will shift your own population. Your own vast voter bases attention from what's going on at home to abroad. Nobody in America wants to focus on Iran.

Nobody cares. No. Well, this is another one of the things people feel anxious. Things that used to work. I mean, George Bush in, in, in 2004, you know, managed this to his advantage. I mean, there's all this all went a cropper. But that was because of 9/11. So we'd had we'd had 911, a truly shocking event. We were both here. We were working together at New York magazine. So that set the stage in a very different way.

This this attack on Iran, especially after the 12 day bombing, apparent obliteration of Iranian. nuclear facilities last summer. We thought we dealt with that. And then suddenly, because Netanyahu. got intelligence that they could take out the leadership is really why we went in. Apparently that worked. But but this is not something anybody cares about at home. And the only reason it happened is because Donald Trump is,

can't because is an incompetent, utterly. I mean, this is just utter incompetence of someone who does not have the, the, the intellectual skill set. to have passed this on the most basic level. So, so here we are, with a. with a justification from the New York Times, essentially.

Well, and the thing over, everybody I talk to, I hear is, how can one man have this much impact? Congress has just given up the ghost, it appears. And how can he have so much impact even when his back is up against the wall, he's still somehow enjoying it, enjoying playing president of the. Well, of course, I mean, this the center of attention for him. You know, he still gets a piece of, of.

of what he wants, which is to be at the center of attention, what he doesn't yet understand, because attention has worked. so well for him in the past, you know, I mean, the, the, the, his fundamental political calculation is if if I get the lion's. share of attention, nobody else gets any attention. And, it's just. not going to work on this situation because, you know, because actually. the war itself gets the attention, and the failure gets the attention.

And the fact that that that the Iranians are going to continue. to declare victory and make him look like a, like a fool. And there are 450 tankers in the Gulf. idling as they try to figure out, will they be one of the tankers. allowed through by Iran is normally a passage of about 100 tankers a day.

At the moment there's between 4 and 8, and that is completely unresolved. And it's it's unclear how that is resolved in two weeks. And I understand that he he thinks, oh, people will forget in two weeks. And actually, that's quite a good theory. I'm going to start doing it. But, but the world isn't going to forget. because there's a physical need for tankers to get out of the Gulf. Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, so. I'm, I'm just.

speechless. I mean, I've never seen you speechless with this is, What is this on 98th? No. 97th podcast. And I've never seen you speak. There is Michael. I just never seen you speechless. This is such a, cock up. And it's a cock up that occurred so quickly. I mean, the, the the interesting thing so. unnecessarily is these messes that usually happen. I mean, there there is, there's kind of cover.

I mean, you go into it with a coalition, international coalition. You have goals, manageable goals that are that can be set. And then, a year later or X number of months later, you think this is not going well, I mean, so that we've compressed this, we've compressed this now to five weeks, a disaster, a, a a historic, international disaster in five weeks.

We've seen the beginning, middle and end. And literally he's handed the. strategic victory to Iran with the Strait of Hormuz. So, how significant was it for her own career? And I'm sure she's plotting to that. Tulsi Gabbard, the head of national intelligence, wasn't in the room where they were sitting around. trying to figure out what to do about it. Yeah, I well, I think she's she's on thin ice.

Now, this, deep state person, who I was speaking to, said, actually, in this conversation, we can test. this person, that the next person to go is the secretary of labor. That is Lori Chavez de Ramirez, who has had a bit of domestic turbulence since she's been at the Labor Department. First of all, I think she was the first one to unfurl. a huge, portrait of Trump on the outside of the building.

Her husband, got accused of sexual harassment and was actually banned. from the building, banned from visiting his wife in a place of work. And then, interestingly, one of her bodyguards was recently removed after, after it appeared that they had developed a close relationship. I wrote a piece about this on Substack, actually, about women having, inappropriate relationships with their bodyguards, the very people who are supposed to protect them.

That would mean that he would have fired the first. three firings would all be women, because we had Kristi Noem, then we had Pam Bondi, and then we might have Lori Chavez drama. So I'm sort of assuming that he's doing that for attention. and that he's sort of poking at women and his whole and CDI, initiative. Yeah. I mean, my feeling would, would be that he doesn't really care.

I mean, he's just irritated. He just goes down the list. But why is he irritated with her? There are more people to be irritated with than her. Yeah. What? What's in Trump's head that he is particularly irritated with this. this this person. You know, I, I would say I think that the answer is. he wants to fire someone, and she's probably expendable. She's expendable. She doesn't seem to have made very much of an impact.

And of course, what we do have is I, as I recall, there may not have been. a Secretary of Labor during the Biden administration. That's a good question. I think it's not a you know, it's it's one of those things I would get rid of. You know what? Anyway, but I'm sure she must be disappointed. because in one of the cabinet meetings, she was one of the first to a talk about. did he love the portrait that they had unfurled outside the building? And it was a particularly egregious piece of suck up.

All right. But but let's be let's. Yeah. You know, I mean, I think it's this is not a very. who he fires at this point is, is is not a very important story. It doesn't really. yeah. He has so moved. the attention on his own incompetence. that there is one person who should be fired here in. That's him. That that I think it marginalizes everything else.

I mean, he has he comes out of this, this five week war. in which the world clearly sees him as the, as the, as a much bigger, a much bigger menace to peace than Iran. Right. You know, Iran, which used to be the, the, the chaos and instability agent. It is, is he clearly. is the chaos and instability agent. He is the existential event.

which everybody in the world clearly recognizes. This is. this this is, this is the the central problem in the world. It's not Vladimir Putin, it's Donald Trump. It's truly horrifying it when you put it like that. It's truly horrifying. And I think those conversations are certainly going on in.

other countries around the world. How do we how do we manage him and then. his having the head of NATO here on Wednesday evening, we're. recording this on Thursday morning and saying that. he doesn't really have any use for NATO anymore, that various of the NATO countries wouldn't support him, partly. because he hadn't told them in advance what he was planning to do, and that he would be punishing them from from now on, and maybe removing American military bases from their country.

Well, let's, let's look at that, because that's part of the question. What happens now? I mean, he will he's going to understand. he's in a corner here and he's going to react. And one of the things he's going to do, because this is. the Donald Trump playbook is look at who to blame. So okay, we're going to get NATO. We're going to blame definitely blame NATO. We're going to blame the Democrats.

We're going to blame Spain. We're going to blame Germany. We're going to blame France. I mean, he's gone after Macron. He's gone after, the the prime minister of Spain, he's gone after Keir Starmer. You know, Winston Churchill withering, withering. criticism of, Keir Starmer. The UK premier. So I'm going to make a prediction. Go on. He's going to blame Israel.

Partly because there is a case. to blame Israel on this, but also because he's going to realize. that he has to make amends with. with the MAGA base. And one of the things, the things that. more and more the. a Maga grail is that Israel is. is the the root of of all bad things. You know, there's a fundamental piece of anti-Semitism there.

And then there is a fundamental. This is two things can be true at the same time. It is, you know, it is clearly anti-Semitic. But clearly Netanyahu and Israel have have, have positioned themselves as the bad guys. Well, and he may have the opportunity to do it. as everybody always on about whether or not. part of the ceasefire arrangement.

is Israel stopping bombing Lebanon. and Israel, saying, well, we're not part of that ceasefire agreement. We can carry on doing what we want. And the Pakistanis and everybody else is saying, well, wait a minute. Of course you're part of the ceasefire agreement. That makes no sense. You're not allowed to go on bombing the Lebanese. Right? Well, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, and that's I mean, that's just one part of a ceasefire agreement in which, in which, has a whole set of terms, which it turns out no one has agreed to,

no one has agreed to. And the ten point plan that Iran has put forward that Trump said. they could work with includes them running the Strait of Hormuz. Yeah. I mean, this is this was literally a ceasefire. Let's agree to a ceasefire without any terms. because we need a ceasefire. I will agree to any ceasefire. So JD Vance has been dispatched to Pakistan. after going and doing his rallying cry for Viktor.

Orban in Hungary. Does this mean that Steve Wyckoff and Jared Kushner have been demoted? No. What? Is not it? Not at all. I think something is signaling of sending JD and I because they very. clearly said JD is going in to lead negotiations. Yeah, I think it means that JD is being pushed into harm's way. Oh, oh, can you imagine being JD Vance right now. Can you imagine he's got his book coming out on communion.

He's being he's being attacked by the Pope. and by the pope's emissary in Washington, by the pope's ambassador. And here he is being sent off to Pakistan. to do the impossible to try to come up with a deal. I think JD is shaping up to be everybody's. fool. I'm along well. I you know, I think everybody now, they've taken. the measure of of JD and JD is not a sophisticated player.

He's not an experienced player. He's he's gotten himself all tied up in knots over and over. What he has said before and how he is had to justify this. and his need to suck up. to a man who basically doesn't represent any of the things. that JD has built his his own base around. So I, I think people more and more realize.

that he's, he's in over his head so he can be used in any possible way. But but it's also so interesting because the thing that everybody says. about JD Vance, because he went to Yale Law School is, oh, JD, he's so smart, he's so smart. And you're like, really easy, so smart. Well, I mean, obviously there are different kinds of intelligence. I mean, I think actually JD Vance is a pretty good writer, which is completely rare in, in these kind of, these kind of circles. I mean, but I think he's, he's in, you know, inexperience.

I mean, this is a craft like any other craft. And he doesn't he doesn't have it in. Why should he he you know, I mean, he was in the. Yeah. I mean he has A2I mean before before he became the vice president. of the United States, he had a two year political career. Well, and he's never done anything for more than two years. He's he's literally never done it. He's never done a job for more than two years. But he's a young man. I mean, just to say he is a young man and and,

and he. doesn't if he doesn't become become the next president of the United States, if he doesn't become the next and the next nominee, he is, he still has a long future. How does Tucker Carlson get on with JD Vance? Yeah, I am. I mean, that's a that's one of those questions. Does anybody in this with these kinds of apps aspirations.

get along with anybody? JD Vance has certainly been useful to Tucker. And, Tucker has been useful to JD Vance. So I think I think you have to see this along the get along scale. But on the usefulness scale, Tucker has promoted JD Vance. Tucker gave JD Vance, as he did, RFK Jr. Really his, his his first national platform.

So, and because JD has largely. represented the Tucker view of things. So where does that leave them now? Well, I think more and more as they, as they become competitors, it leaves them as competitors. So okay, so we have competition. in the podcast space from a member of Trump's cabinet. Would you like to take a guess as to who it is?

Because I would have thought this might be one of the least. likely people to do a podcast from the Trump cabinet. Well, I know who you're referring to. I was going to try to try to be surprised to do, but I do. I, I thought you might have seen this particular snippet two and it is clearly, the, the voice that everyone. is dying to hear in podcast form.

Go on. The, Mr. Crack Pike pipe himself, RFK junior. Mr.. Crack five himself. Mr.. I, I snorted coke off a toilet. Yes. That's why I should be. the Minister of Health or the Secretary for Health and Human Services. I mean, fascinating. So. So he's obviously building a post Trump,

media outlet for himself. I think he's probably thinking, hell, where is my next stream of income. coming from? And so he's now trying to build himself a podcast. You know, he was once a radio guy. Do you remember the of I have to think I think of this. There was a, radio network. that was put together to air was Air America exactly. Air America, and it had Al Franken and Katherine Lampert and. Yes. And.

and the that an. MSNBC person who is who went on to great. To dominate. the left wing air space, whose name I can't remember. Okay. You're gonna have to give him. Oh, it's like the most famous person on the left wing air. How can I not, Mika Brzezinski? No, she's not the left winger. She's a, Well, she's on MSNBC slams now. Rachel Maddow. Oh, Rachel Maddow, Rachel Maddow was on it.

Okay. Yeah. No. Rachel Maddow sort of sort of. Well, she's only on it once a week. Oh, no. No, she was on Friday night. She was their, their, their main anchor. Right. But she's only on MST. now once a week because she managed to do itself a fantastic deal. What she gets I mean $25 million for appearing on a Monday night. How do people pull off those deals. But that. so, I mean, there are a lot of people who came out of, er, America not actually RFK Jr.

I don't really think that was, that was up. That was something that, well, I wonder that really made his, his, his career. I wonder if, like, Katie Miller, he's just going to be interviewed. But but there was an interesting thing because I remember I, I sort of knew those. some Air America people and they would talk about RFK. Jr because he had this enormous I mean, he had a lot of women problems. Well, that's why I'm thinking that he's. looking to a post cabinet future, realizing.

perhaps, that he's been talked as someone that Trump will let go of. before the midterm. Yeah. No, I understand that that that's true. And I'm I think that he is looking for I think he will be a candidate. for the Republican nomination. That would be. I mean, I mean literally why not? And, right. And he's got further than he ever thought he would do. Why not, why not? But then a lot of people I know are now saying, well,

I think I should run for president because look at Trump, look at what we have. I mean, you know, no, absolutely. I don't mean me, but I'm talking. I feel like I talk to a lot of quite serious people who are now. thinking, well, maybe I should run because the country needs saving. And it's all a shit show. And if he can do it, I can do it. Yeah. Which I think is a problem as well as he was. So for the moment, I mean, I mean the in. in the, in the time, the political timeline, this is when people have those kinds of conversations.

before the midterms and then they have those conversations and. you know, and those. conversations are largely theoretical or fantastic. And then somebody says, are you are you are you crazy? This is what you have to do. You have to go out and raise $1 billion. Could you do that? Do you want to do that? Are you capable of doing that? And that's the point at which everybody goes, yeah,

yeah, I'll do something else. But I think we have to. We should be keeping in mind that timeline. and this goes also to Trump's current position, because this is the. the war is going to significantly impact on the vote in November. The vote in November is going to be catastrophic for Trump, which will then make him very almost officially a lame.

duck guy with, with with the people in his party. Suddenly, for the first time in ten years, starting to to make put a meaningful distance. between themselves and Donald Trump. Right. And the Republicans looking for a post-Trump future. So again, I just want to say that to say and we should, you know, and. and direct our focus to this, this is the beginning of the end.

This is the beginning of the end. All right. Well, you heard it here first, Michael. Joanna, we should remind people, please to subscribe to this podcast. This is, as we said, our 97th episode of Inside Trump's Head. And when we started, we didn't know that we were going to spend 97 episodes in here. And we're looking forward to celebrating our 100th, episode next Thursday. And we're still looking for suggestions for how to to note it.

We haven't quite figured it out yet. I feel we should do something significant, but I'm not sure what that is. And, it will slightly depend on what what. Trump's head looks like this time next week. Yeah. No, it it and it is so volatile at this at this point. I mean as far as I mean, he doesn't know where he is going. He doesn't know what tomorrow is going to be like. He doesn't. And I think this is an important point because we, we I mean, we discussed. this this, this this.

was more on psychopath having so much control, but we're at a moment in which he doesn't have control. I mean, right, I mean, events are are beyond him. And talking about Tucker, there's an anecdote where it says. that Tucker warned Trump about the war, who said it will be okay. And then Tucker says, well, how do you know it's going to be okay? And Trump says, well, because it always is. That's that's in the times piece. And that's, that's clearly from that's Tucker's report on the conversation.

Clearly, yes. But just the idea that that Trump reassures him by saying. it's always it's always fine. It's always it's going to be fine. Yeah. No, I mean, I mean, that's the interesting thing about what's inside. Trump's Trump's head is that he does remember he's a he's a survivor. So so whatever happens, he comes out. He sees himself as coming out of this as.

as it it's okay. He doesn't ever see himself as being defeated by something, but but sort of horrifying that the president. goes to war on his instincts because his instincts at this point, what are reasons one of his instincts ever been other than for attention? And it'll all work out because it all always does. And just let me add, because I can't help myself. It is also horrifying that after ten years, the New York. Times does not know, still does not know how to report this. You can't stop yourself all right.

We have some poems. We've got a Limerick from Paul Watson at 809. Dom's flies by the seat of his pants. When he crashes, he raves and he rants. This verbal assault goes, it's all Biden's fault. And Obama's time in his sycophants. and all that was pretty good. Well done, Paul Watson. And then we have one with Gottfried. Gottfried gone completely off Limerick rhythm this way. I mean the point of a Limerick.

I think Garth read you tell me or the Limerick laureate. is actually to stay within a specific, rhythm. But I'm going to read it anyway. With Michael Wolff sparring with Joanna Coles on air, they warned Donald Trump was juggling doom with a dare. Hormuz started shaking oil markets were quaking. while JD Vance look primed for the blame chair. So both we should be trying to be squeezed into a Limerick I like.

Maybe we should put someone in a, And every, every episode. Yeah. Every episode. That should be a blame chair. I wonder if we should actually start. This was suggested by, a viewer who. who wrote in to me today a Limerick competition at the end. Actually, we should have a competition for the best Limerick. every week because we get. a lot of limericks and poems and we don't have enough time. And actually, because we showed the. remarkable monkey shaped plaster craft that arrived called DJ Epstein,

and we haven't mentioned Epstein at all today. We've we've started receiving. all sorts of arts and crafts, great gifts. And I've got a huge democracy mug that someone sent, which is like, well, I'll bring it on to the next episode. But it's very kind of people, and it shows that people are being trying. to be super creative in a, in a difficult time.

Is that what it shows? I think so I think that's what it shows. I hope that's what it shows. People have to have some outlet for their madness, an outlet for the madness. And this is Rs. Michael, this is Rs. 97 episodes in, All right, well, Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, I will buy a copy of your book, even if Michael does. You know, Jonathan Swan, who was somewhat helpful to me. when I was writing, Fire and Fury. I'm modestly helpful, but I was generously thanked him,

along with a whole list of others. And, and he went. crazy about being thanked because that meant that, anyone who was thanked in the acknowledgments of Fire. and Fury immediately earned the antipathy of the white House. And Jonathan Swan was busily trying to suck up to them. Well, Jonathan Swan's done just fine, and I'm glad he helped you on Fire and Fury.

He's got a very nice accent, actually. He has an Australian accent. You find Australian accents nice. I find his voice nice. He has a soothing voice when you listen to him. I don't like all of them. I don't like Rupert Murdoch. But I like Tony. I like Rupert Murdoch's accent. I cannot understand what Rupert icon. Understand what? Rupert Murdoch. No one thinks in a in a mumble. All right. I've told that story before. Right? What were you go to his where you would visit him once a week, right?

When you were writing one of your books about. And I got on the elephant, and he then lived in a Trump building, the building that Ivanka and Jared lived in. And I was with Murdoch and we left. We had coffee in the morning at his apartment. We left together, and as the out the elevator descended, then stopped. and Donald Trump got on and Rupert Murdoch said in. some neighborly ish kind of thing.

to Trump and Trump turned to me and said, do you ever understand anything he says, what did you say back? You did your shrug. Yeah. I didn't say that because it was. It is very hard to understand, Murdoch. I wonder if that's one of the reasons that Trump was fine with you being. in the white House, because he clocked that you've written a book about Murdoch. I'm sure that's part of it. Yes, of course.

Okay. Well, now that he read my book about Murdoch, of course not. He hasn't read any books. I don't think he might have listened to it on tape, but you can, No. That was a long ago. Enough that you that you could not. But you can now, because I have just. I have just read the book. Oh, right. You okay. So that led that that was a very nice segue. for you to promote the fact that you've got an now available audio edition. I hear you did that reading.

The man who owns the news inside the secret world of Rupert Murdoch. The secret world of Rupert Murdoch. Well, if you have been. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe. We'll be back on Saturday with another episode of Inside Trump's Head. If there's anything left in there for us to poke around. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team Devin, Roger Reno, Ryan Murray,

Rachel Passa, Heather Pizarro, Neil Rosen house.