The ‘Real Ways’ MAGA Is Now Breaking With Trump | Inside Trump's Head

This is part of the split that is going on in Mega. I mean, a split that I see increasing on an almost daily basis. The implicit promise to Mega was America First, a profoundly isolationist policy. We do not want American troops anywhere. We don't want American money anywhere. We don't want it. And certainly during the first administration showed. a real inclination to turn away from the world in this administration. A the world has caught up with him.

It is very difficult to turn away from and. and also it turns out he loves it. This is very confusing because it's actually Saturday. and we're going on a weekend jaunt, which makes no sense. No King Saturday, no king Saturday. Yes, it's no King Saturday, and we are here in the studio, or we're recording this on Friday for Saturday because I guess. by popular demand we are doing a third.

What do you mean, sour face? Popular demand? No, by by popular demand. People in the streets. People in the streets. We're doing an extra episode of, No, no, no, we're not just doing an extra episode. We have expanded from twice a week to three times a week. And so from from Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays inside Trump's head. Okay, but a weekend trip, I feel like it should have a different vibe.

For example, normally you're wearing a suit jacket, but today you've got. Well, it's dressed down Friday, so you're wearing a cardigan, one of your famous cardigans. I've worn a suit jacket once on all of the shows that we've done, but no, that's true. You sort of linen jacket, a linen jacket. But there was a lot of, comment on, Thursday or possibly Tuesday's episode because it turned out. we had randomly color coordinated for, for we were both in brown.

Yeah. And the, the cardigans, as as you said this, it's it's the fall. It's the autumn. Yeah. But we haven't seen as most of the episodes we've done over the summer. So, so, so the point is, was linen. Not only will you be getting, it's new content, you're going to be getting extra knitwear. Extra knitwear. Okay, so where are we going and why? Just remind people we don't have to spend a lot of time on it. because regular people will know. But for new people, because I lecture on on.

why we're doing this, you lecture and I actually don't think you mansplain, but I do think it's good context for people as to why we're doing this. We are going inside Trump's head and we are going there. because that's where literally everything happens. in American politics, which is not customary. It usually happens in agencies, in Congress, in think tank. Yes. There are all kinds of kinds of external factors.

that influence what's going on now. It is is extraordinary. The only thing like singular, the only I mean, the exclusive thing. that has any bearing on anything is what's inside Trump's head. So what is. inside Trump's head this weekend, Michael, as we look at the spread of no King's protest.

Well, I think that's an can. I also just say one thing. And now we're going to get 100 comments saying I interrupt. You know, King's protest is a weird title. It's a negative title. Well, also, what's it about who who's who's it directed towards? It seems it seems, abstract and in some, in some overly creative sense. Right. And also it feels like it should be King's protest. Except of course, we don't want King. And that's the point of America.

We left the King, but it just also king. To be perfectly honest, King has a kind of, quaint sound to it, right? So what it should be called something else I think would be more. effective is why don't they say release the files, protest? No, I think totally and totally a brilliant a brilliant idea. I mean, that's fantastic. But it also it's just not it's not that. It's just in the negative. It is for what?

There is what is the protest against. Against a king, I suppose Donald Trump's king, but it doesn't it it doesn't resonate. But yes. Epstein, release the Epstein files, protest. Everybody come to Washington. 10 million bipartisan issue. Let's let's do it. How can we organize it? We're not organized as widgeon as we just sit here. We just. We just chat. We just tool.

But somewhere out there is an organizer. Yeah. Release the Epstein files, protest. Everybody come to DC. Doesn't matter what your party affiliation is. We all want to know what's in the Epstein files. Come on, Dan Bongino. Come on, cash. Patel. Do you know what's in them? But we want to know, too. I don't want to knock this. This is. It's great. What's an important moment across the country? People turning out in their communities to say, what the fuck?

And I think that that is, I mean, I obviously that is good. The question is, does it have an effect? Does it? I mean, what's inside Trump's head? I mean, this protests, no. King's protests is not inside Trump's head. Well, do we know that? Because we do know that he has a thing about crowd size, because he made up. the size of his inauguration crowd first time, right? Yeah. Second time around, he didn't even have an inauguration crowd. Well, I think that there that there is, I think I think he can very.

now it will be in his interest to minimize the crowd. And since the crowd is so is so spread out, that's that's easy to do. But I think you have to ask the question and I think it's a. I mean, I think there, there there are two profound questions here. Why has there been so little protest, so little pushback, so little fundamentally objection. to what has been going on for the past nine months.

Then the other question is, how do you create a protest that has. that has an effect, that has impact? And, and I would say, you know, and I would be delighted. to be proved wrong on this, but I would I would say that a protest. that is spread out around the country has significantly less effect than a. then a protest that goes to Washington. that confronts the people who you want to confront,

who create a situation in which they can see you, feel you, smell you. They can't escape you. And, you know, obviously the major protests that that, of the, of the modern. era from, from Martin Luther King, I have a dream to all those people in the middle of the civil rights, that that, that, that civil rights movement. arrived in Washington to,

to in, in, in the Vietnam War when, when people again. came to Washington for the Iraq war to and, you know, under under Bush. I mean, these were meaningful moments, moments in which. in which people understood the country as a whole, understood, but also the people in Washington understood that, man. You know, this is, you know, we're going to have to account for this. These are American people marching in the streets.

And now I think they march on line, that a lot of protest has just moved online. People are engaged, you know, arguably 24 over seven in this, but it doesn't have the impact that gathering in person. You know, and I think you can I mean, there are there are millions. upon millions of people engaged on line. I mean, I talk about this, you know, every,

every day on Instagram and have a and a following. I mean, I'm, I'm stunned by how many, how many followers I have listening to these little, you know, a few minutes each day about. about Donald Trump stunned by it. But it's the difference between between, a fractured social media. landscape in mass media and I think protests.

I think you can you can you can compare this. I mean, no kings around the country is is is a fractured. expression where as mass protests. So in let's, let's assume 10 million. people in Washington, what kind of effect that would have. Well, that would be historic. But wouldn't Donald Trump just ignore it? First of all, he'd probably be at Mar-A-Lago. Secondly, he'd just say, oh, they're making it up. It's not true.

I mean, you can't that's this is that's the point about a mass protest, that there are so many people, so many literal bodies, you can't ignore it. This is not ethereal. This is not abstract. This is not virtual. This is boots on the ground in the main city. It's sort of the equivalent of the Arab Spring in terms. of just people turning out en masse. No. And and again, and so that goes to this second. question of why there has been no protests.

And I think you're right. I think maybe, maybe that this being online. in, in social media makes it feel like there has been, when there hasn't or there. or there hasn't been the thing that has affect, impact meaning. And there's also no one person leading an opposition either. Well, you know, I mean, I think that that's in times. past in, in large, large, opposition demonstrations there.

probably there might not necessarily have been one person either. But what there were were organizers, and, and I would say, you know, I mean, well, there are organizers of the no. King's protest. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, and they've done a good job. the just the question, the question is, is that the right job? Do they add up to a mass march. on Washington, DC, or are they less than the sum of their parts?

Exactly. And I'm interested in this idea of, of organizing, having never organized anything in my life. This is not this is not easy. Right. So who steps up to the plate to organize something. that has this kind of impact, right, that I don't I don't know that person. I wish I wish I did well and does it have a I mean, you think of. first time around, Trump won, the Women's March, which.

I now don't know how many women went to Washington, but it was a big collegial event that people flew in for. And I mean, the last king's the last. no King's protest had 5 million people would be interesting to see. And I'm assuming there will be many more. On Saturday. Yeah. No, I think that there may well be ten, 10 million people, but as as you say, there's 10 million people in one place and 10 million people spread out across a,

a large country. And also it will get covered on social media too. So that will amplify it. But I think the point is to what effect and Donald Trump will ignore it. or be doing something else, or because he's so good. at this will steal the attention doing something else. As we're recording this, President. Zelensky is talking to him in DC. It feels very much to me like the president knowing he's.

got troubles at home. The government's obviously shut down for, I think, what are we now? Day 18, has turned his eye precisely where he said he wouldn't to MAGA, which is abroad, which is what leaders always do in Britain. Whenever things were going wrong, they would always start fiddling. around abroad, and it would ultimately be their downfall. And one can't help feeling this, some of that going on here. If you're Marjorie Taylor Greene, who turns out to be. doing some protesting of the Republicans herself,

how would you feel about the money that's now. being tossed to Argentina and Trump casually saying, 20 billion, 40 billion? We're not going to notice that? Well, no, I mean, this is this is part of this split that is going on in MAGA. I mean, a split that I see, see, increasing on an almost daily basis. But, you know, the implicit promise to MAGA was, was America first and a profoundly isolationist policy.

We do not want troops, any American troops anywhere. We don't want American money anywhere. We don't we don't want it. And, and. and Trump has was largely, largely acceded to that, to that position. And and certainly during the first administration showed. showed real a real inclination. to turn away from, from from the world.

And I think in this administration, a the world has caught up with him. I mean, it is very difficult to turn away from. and, and also, and, and also. it turns out he loves it when you're talking to people around Donald Trump. How are they saying he reacts to this kind of a protest? Well, they're not even. So I literally think this is not on on his radar. And certainly nobody is flagging this right now.

Everyone is saying he's just he's just euphoric. This Middle East thing was was something, something I mean, for a guy who kept saying, I'm going to stop all wars, I can do this. I think he's completely surprised that this has turned out as well as it has. And he's riding it. And, and I think people around him. are a little. Wary of, of of the fact that he now.

thinks he can do anything, including sending tomahawks. Well, he's got the peace bug now. Right. Well, he's got the he's got the attention bug, which he certainly have, but he's understands. Oh my God, the attention is here and the attention is lavish. and it's Yeah, exactly. And as you say, leaders always realize it is easier to do things abroad. You know, as you say. I mean, Tony Blair was was hated in. the UK, hated and, and and loved abroad.

People still think in the US, people still think Tony Blair is that well, similarly with Margaret Thatcher, she was always off on the world stage. He's made her really in the end, it's always domestic politics that brings. you down. And the interest of Nixon went to China in the middle of Watergate. Right? Right. Another good parallel. And it's it's also that thing that with Trump, you saw a more generous kind of president when he was there,

lavishing praise on everybody else when he was in Egypt. You know, this guy's great. This guy's great. They've all been working really hard. These are not comments he ever makes about his own cabinet. He's always got a kind of, you know, twist in the tale. when he's talking about his own cabinet or is simply putting them down. But actually on the world stage, you saw someone who was, I hesitate to say this, and I know you're immediately going to say no, but perhaps reaching forward if there is a better self. We caught a glimpse of it when he was acknowledging this was a joint effort.

It wasn't just I want. I won't I won't directly dispute that, but I will, footnote. that he's on the world stage knowing nothing about the world stage. So in other instances, you know, Nixon went to. China, had been studying the the world stage for his entire career. You know, these are, you might say, serious people on the world stage, whereas this is a profoundly unserious person.

Well, and I don't want to sound churlish in any way about creating. any kind of moment of peace in the, in the Middle East. But there was something very hastily put together in what appeared to be. a hotel room, that kind of weird dais that they'd erected with peace 2025. We really don't know the details of this agreement or who has agreed to. what now, which which and I will. I'm on my, on my side.

Be less than churlish about this and saying maybe that's his genius. We got everybody to agree to whatever they thought they were agreeing to. The fact that it's a 20 point plan and we only know the first five points. You know how they handle that? I mean, maybe that is, again, you know, Trump. Trump. Genius. I hesitate to say that. But but the other thing is we, we really we don't know what's going to happen or what he's going to do. So Zelinski is in the white House today.

We do not know if if Trump is going to be. zelenskiy's on Zelensky's side or opposing Zelensky. And he is theoretically has had what was billed. as a two hour conversation with Putin. I'm I'm really at. okay, I know what if that was a two hour conversation? That was two hours of Trump motor mouthing. Putin and, and Putin just just listening and just,

just letting it go on Putin just giving his inscrutable smile. But but he may be we don't know if he is Putin's friend. or Putin's enemy, and he goes back and forth, remember that that. that I mean, not too long ago, this is just weeks ago. He went to Alaska. For what? Yeah, a peace summit, right? Yeah. Was he summit? Yes. And and for whatever, whatever he got there that he got nothing.

there and and Putin got whatever there was to get. Well, he got to ride in the beast, which everybody assumes he immediately managed to bug. And, Trump somehow thought he was leaving America. because he kept saying, you know, he was leaving America to go and do this. He seemed very confused. Whatever. They're back at it. If you're in Trump's head right now. What? What voices are you hearing? He hears no voices other than his own.

I mean, I want to be. That sounds hyperbolic. But this is it would be wrong. to assume that there is any other voice here. And Trump himself, when asked on this thing, on on this question, which he has been asked many times, and he is remarkably. consistent on the answer, who do you take advice from? He says he looks like Reggie. Bush and says, only myself.

So, but but I think I think now. he has come off this high of, of, of what happened in, in the Middle East, and he wants more of it. And Zelensky said, I will nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize next year. If you can bring an end to this terrible war. Right. And so, and so the question is, is, is how? And that has come down to the Tomahawks. This is this is, the Tomahawk question.

Tomahawk missiles. Yes. Does he give I mean, he has that he's he has certainly, dangled that out there. I'm we're we may have to give you the tomahawks. And then he has gone on to describe the damage that Tomahawks would do. This would be damage that they would do to, to Russia. And one assumes that he is saying this because that will, that will theoretically scare Vladimir Putin. But then he says, well, maybe I'm not going to give the Tomahawks.

and we need the tomahawk, so we're not going to give the Tomahawks. I mean, does he even know what a tomahawk is? Well, I mean, but he what he does know is the name. It's great to say this. I'm the tomahawk in saying tomahawk. Yeah. Yeah, it's the sort of the word that could be a chant. Tomahawks. Tomahawks. Yeah. Like thank you. Trump. Thank you Trump. It's got the same rhythm. of as as what we heard people chanting in Israel last week. And so maybe this is every weekend he has to go and do a piece.

Do we know that he's ended seven wars or is eight wars now? But then let's go back to what this does on his, on his base. in the MAGA base, which is at the. at the very least, churlish about this. They don't like it. They don't. like any aspect of, of of the, of this of, of of the fact that he might be sending tomahawks,

even the possibility of tomahawks. I mean, they don't like the fact that he is that. even if he has, he if he has established a ceasefire. and the return of the hostages, he's done this at, at the at the cost of a. really very, you know, even even more than usual embrace of Netanyahu. Who the who the MAGA people detest. So I, you know, I, I see this as this among the.

the growing list of issues that MAGA is is has a problem with. So so where does this put it when you're talking. to people in this split in MAGA is extremely interesting. Where does this put J.D. Vance? Well, I think I mean, J.D. Vance it is in can only be in one place, which is joined at the hip to Donald Trump. So,

so anything that, that and any, any perceived deviations from MAGA, by the MAGA people is going to infect JD Vance. We should also talk about about this amount amount of money, 20 billion, 40 billion to Argentina that. that that may or may not go to Argentina. You know, it's a, you know, a a fundamental Republican. principle is against bailouts.

Well, we are very clearly I mean, I don't think there's any pretense. otherwise bailing out Argentina and very specifically because, because Argentina, the Argentina president is Trump's favorite president. Right. Because they have a lot in common. Apparently. So so let's just focus for a second on this MAGA split. Who is leading the sort of MAGA split? Who are the voices now that have.

real audience on this stuff? Well, I mean, I, you know, very much. Tucker. You know, I think we should spend some time. I think I said this the last time he is worth a, he is worth all of our attention. I mean, he is worth our attention on this subject. He is. He is a clear voice, a cogent voice, a persistent voice.

and a popular voice. I, I mean, there are others. Two Marjorie Taylor Greene has stepped forward, you know, in a way. that seems to confound everybody. Because she is breaking from the president in, in real ways. I mean, some ways that that liberals are suddenly finding like, common cause with. Well, she's broken with him on Epstein, right? She's one of the signatories for release the Epstein files, led by the cross-party team of Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna.

And also, she's figured out that her kids are going to have to pay. double their health insurance premiums so that politics has become personal. for her. Right. And so she now has is is this has essentially gone over. to the other side in terms of the shutdown. Unless we forget the shutdown, we should come back to it because it is. although we seem to again ignore this in the,

in, in the. cascade of other events, it is the central event. in American politics in government at this moment. So how do protesters tomorrow use the shutdown. as a way of pointing out that right now, America isn't working? I'm not sure that's how protests and mass protests, even one spread out. across the country, work. You know, or. or certainly I mean, one of the other problems,

I think you can put it this way about a protest spread out. across the country, is that the message is unclear. There is no one delivering a message. No one is going to have a dream in front of, you know. Well. And hundreds and hundreds of communities with different protests. Right. And one of the criticisms of the Democrats at the last election. was that their only coherent message, Kamala Harris's only coherent message. was, I'm not Donald Trump.

Say no to a dictator, but you have to be for. something to get people to vote for you, right? Well, I, I don't I don't know if I mean, yes. The, well, I don't know if that's true or not. Well, I think it's harder to motivate a negative vote. than it is to, to get people to vote for something. When you see what's happening with Mamdani in New York, people are leaning into his enthusiasm, his apparent authenticity. Well, his energy.

Well, I know, also his specific message, the cost of living is too high. Yeah. Affordability. Yes. No. I mean, I, I think that that's that that's. that that is true. I mean, the problem with the Democrats is that none of their messages have, you know, because they are Democrats. They because they are fundamentally bureaucratic. You know, they're fundamentally about, the, the, the, the particulars of policy, which is all which is all good.

and all necessary and what you need to actually run a country is. Yes, but it's very hard to sell it when you're up against. someone who's singular talent is holding the attention to himself. So I think we could have, you know, 10 million people. protesting, no kings across the country. And Donald Trump. will still do something that just means that he gets the attention. So it's really a question I, you know, I think,

what can you do that he can't compete with? That's a very good way of putting it. What can you do that Donald Trump can't out attention you in okay. And let's let's look at this. because one of the things should be to shut down the government. And I would have. said that is going to command everyone's attention, but it is not. but perhaps it will. And I mean, the government shutdown is set up. Is at a interesting point because it is going on and on and on,

and I don't see given. given the positions on both sides. I mean, it suddenly it it is now, it is now articulated. on, on win or lose, there is no compromise in the middle of this. And you say it's not getting any attention. I'm sure it's getting attention. from people who are government workers who are being treated so cavalierly. I mean, the whole decision to fire 4000 people last week.

and then the chaos that they had to undo half of those firings. because they realized they couldn't manage without them, no, I am, I absolutely. And that in itself should be the major story, but it is not. Well, because it turned out to be peace in the Middle East. Right. So Russell Vought, at the budget office, who's trying to has now. said they're going to try and get rid of 10,000 people during this shutdown. Again, in a normal time. That would have an incredible amount of tension.

But, attention. But Trump's great talent is keeping attention for himself. Now, the the Democrats, I believe, understand that the longer this goes on, the more attention it will have to get, because the more people it will directly affect. And their bet is that that the person who will be held. ultimately responsible is the president of the United States, because he leads the party in power, which I think is true.

So if you were saying who's. winning the shutdown at the moment, is it the Democrats or is it Trump? I would say the Democrats by a by a bit, maybe by even a bit more. And Mike Johnson seems on the back foot over Adelita Greve. The congresswoman from Arizona seems on, on on a back foot. Well, at least she's on the back. Whirlpool. The guy is is always in. Yeah.

You know, the headlights. He he is always in the headlights, but at least he's on the back foot. because poor old Mitch McConnell took a cropper in the Senate yesterday. That was unfortunate, but Mike Johnson's refusal to swear. in the congresswoman in Arizona is also becoming an issue. Yeah. No, I mean, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, will is an issue, will be an issue. is the issue that doesn't go away. Is I mean, I have said.

from the beginning that I thought that that should be that the Democrats. should make that and a central issue issue of the shutdown. Right. That unless. unless you release the files, we're not going to open the government again. Well, maybe we have an Epstein protest, maybe the next Epstein is a million people in this process. Weirdly, the Epstein files process would get both across. Yes. Oh my God, yes, that's what we should organize.

But I very much appreciate the, dressed down Friday. Well, you're you look like you always look I am. Yeah, well, I look like I always. It's just. What what else are you going to wear? Since you don't have to. Video no longer requires a tie in jacket. Yeah, totally. You totally. I think we should do a, you know, you know this when when you went on television, the guys would be in the tie and jacket and then. And then there. Then they would be wearing pajamas or shorts or,

below the table. That's so weird to me. So weird. And then, of course, all that took off during Covid. All right, well, I think we both deserve a weekend. Now, but I do think it's an Epstein Files protest, isn't it? Release the Epstein files. We should fire up the MAGA base on this. Well, we should. We protest, become organizers. Okay, well, we're journalists. We're not organizers. But I think it's, It's released. The Epstein's files price their protest, and that's worth going to DC for.

I'll see you there. If you have been. Thank you for joining us on a Saturday. Let us know what you think. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast for independent Media. So we appreciate your support. There's a button you just push. Yeah, that's to join the Daily Beast community. And you can sign up for more of us wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to tell people to? Maybe you can pay a premium and then you get all kinds of favors from us. Do you want to say beast?

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