The Is the Proof Nothing Can Save Doomed Trump Now | The Daily Beast Podcast

His closing message. It's a really bizarre thing to watch. He's making these strange noises. He can't remember people's names. He wants to talk about how hot men are. It's the weirdest thing. Watching these men race up to be either humiliated. and or objectified by Donald Trump. These Republicans that could stop all of this. They could have stopped this at any point. Their political careers should forever be in ruin because they're cowards.

that will not stand up for the Constitution and for their constituents. I'm trying to Kohl's. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Today's guest is Jen Welsh, author of the new book Not Today, Fascists, and of course, co-host of the I've Had It podcast. She's a friend of the beast, and she has opinions on. absolutely everything, including, of course, Trump's latest noises, his,

well, his objectifying male senator's bodies, his general weirdness, the state of his health, you name it. She's also got very strong opinions on Elon Musk. So stay tuned for Jen Welsh. Just a reminder before we get to it. Subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast. We are independent media. We're not part of a huge conglomerate. We are independent, which is why we can have the conversations that we do. And we appreciate your joining Becoming a Beast Tier.

member of The Daily Beast, where you get extra content, exclusive content, or you can become a friend of the of the beast. Let's get into it with Jen Welsh. Jen Welsh is here. She has been crisscrossing the country with her book Not Today, fascists. And welcome to the studio, Jen. I'm dying to talk to you about. I want your predictions. I want how the book tours gone. I want to know what you think.

is happening with Donald Trump and those weird noises. And I want to know if you think this is the Ellen election. We can vote against Trump and his MAGA base. We can't vote against Ellen. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's always my favorite place to be. Well, that is so nice. And, is it really your favorite? That would be so nice. Because, you know, in every way, you've been everywhere. No, I love coming here. You have a beautiful office. I love coming here. I love seeing you. I love this podcast. Good.

Well, I want to leap across the desk and come and embrace you. All right, so Trump has been at as many events. as you have and will come on and talk about your book in a moment. How how do you think he's doing. We're recording this Wednesday morning. We've got six days until the midterms. How do you think he's faring? His closing message? It's a really bizarre thing to watch, and it's become so normal to us that oftentimes.

I have to step back and say, this is the president of the United States. This is unacceptable. He's making these strange noises. He can't remember people's names. He's insulting. I saw a rally he did last night. He's deep in red states, by the way. Deep, deep, deep in Trump country. trying to save Trump country, which is interesting. But he you know, he wants to talk about how hot men are. But he was at Ken Paxton's rally. He's like, you know, I could do this to Ken. But, you know, I don't think he really quite.

has the physique to do it and can't just sit there smiling. And then he starts trashing Ted Cruz, who's also in attendance, and he goes, yeah, I'm going to point Ted Cruz to be on the Supreme Court. because all the Democrats hate him and all the Republicans hate him. And Ted stands up and smiles and waves. It's the weirdest thing watching these men race up to be either. humiliated and or objectified by Donald Trump. It's a really weird movement. And I think his closing argument, I don't give a damn about your gas prices.

I'm making a lot of money, or we're making a lot of money and we're making trillions and trillions. He's talking about ass all the time, particularly, you know, some senators ass. It's just some weird stuff. To quote. George W Bush, do you remember at the end of the first inauguration speech, he looked over to Hillary and he said, well, that was some weird shit, I believe, as it was in 2017. He's sitting next. I believe it was Hillary who reported this, right? And Trump gives this really dark, dystopian American carnage, right? Yes.

And he and George stabby because that was some weird shit. Well, the shit with him is getting weirder and weirder, Joanna. It's just. And here's where I am. I understand that tomorrow morning Trump's going to wake up, apply his makeup. Not very well, and he is going to go deep into these red states. and give these bonkers, bonkers rallies. I get all of that at this stage. Who are these people that go and cheer for this?

Number one and number two, these Republicans that could stop all of this. They could have stopped this at any point. Their political careers should forever be in ruin. because they're cowards that will not stand up. for the Constitution and for their constituents. If a genie gave me. three wishes, I would use all my wishes to wish. for my cats to live forever. But since genies don't exist, I feed my cat Smalls.

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shipping and free treats for life when you head to smalls.com beast. and they. won't stand up for for Western values. I mean, I find since we last talk. an even further pivot to Putin by Donald Trump. Yeah. What do you think Putin has on Donald Trump. that Donald Trump just seems to want to be at his beck and call?

I think he admires Putin. I think that Trump really admires strongmen. He admires people that are able to skirt the system the way Putin does. And I don't know if it's the Steele dossier, the p tape, but it seems to me as a normal person, well, he's got to have something over him. Why would the United States bend the knee like this? But oftentimes, I think when we try to project. the way we normal people that have empathy and a conscience would deal with things, and we try to apply that.

and project that onto these psychopaths that are MAGA politicians. I don't know that it quite translates. And so I don't know why they do all of the things they do. But my guess is it's all transactional. It's all money. Whit cough Kushner Trump I think they're all raking it in, all raking it in. So and in terms of the rallies and you say he's going into deep, deep. Trump territory at the right Mississippi, who would have known that,

that so many states would suddenly seem vulnerable to him? Do you think people are going to see him because they love him out of curiosity? Because there's nothing else to do, because it's a live event. People like convening because we spend so much time online. I look at some of these people, and especially when the camera pans behind. them. And there was one the other day where Trump was talking. about the governor, and then you were at the end of it, and and several. people behind him just looked down and they looked embarrassed for him.

And I wonder if people are almost going to see him out of curiosity now? No, I think the people in these deep. red counties are true believers. They are the people that are not the secret Trump voters. These are the people that believe he is fighting for me. Donald Trump cares about putting money into my pocket. They believe it. These are the truth of true believers, which I'm a little bit more forgiving of.

than I am. Like Senator Thune. Like he knows a million times better. Little Marco knows way better than all of this. But these people in these rural places there. where they live, it's void of culture. And so they, they, cling on to this idea. of their religion and being a patriot. Those are cultural things for them. And those two things are merged together, and they feel like Trump. is the instrument that has finally said, I see you,

I see you, and I'm fighting for you. Needless to say, it just goes right over their head. when he says stuff like, yeah, if I give you the $5,000. and you came to Ma Largo, you couldn't even afford a cheeseburger. Yet everybody's just completely bedwetting over Barack Obama. Speaking about The Cheesecake Factory. Right. And The Cheesecake Factory. Interestingly, if you go online and look at the chatter. around Cheesecake Factory, so much of it is about the fact that the slices.

have gotten smaller and the prices have gotten bigger. So it's now $13 for a slice of the basic Cheesecake Factory cheesecake. And it's a smaller piece. Yes. And Cheesecake Factory is a chain. It's a big corporation. They're acting like Obama was, gunning for mom and pop, small town America cafes. That wasn't happening. I think Cheesecake Factory was founded in Beverly Hills. Oh, I think that was the first one.

I believe I read that, and so I, I think Obama is pretty smart. He knows when he dropped that line that these are. the people that freaked out over him wearing a tan suit. He knows that's catnip for them. So now they're out defending. The Republicans are defending Trump's crazy. spending on gold in the Oval Office, which is really pretty brilliant of Obama. to put that in there, because now they're out. Oh my gosh, you know, can you believe that they're talking about The Cheesecake Factory?

Nobody's even thinking about the Cheesecake Factory. All of these people are bad faith actors. And Obama knows that. I mean, he's and it was so nice to see him. Oh, well, to actually. see him campaigning and you realize how good he is, his rhythms, the way he speaks, the fact he looks so relaxed. What I realized, Joanna, it realized how good we are. We elected him twice and that goodness is still here. I mean, Trump and the flood, the zone and the.

You know, JD Vance's closing statement seems to be very, very racist. You see a lot of Islamophobia towards Abdulkadir. and trying to tie him to the Muslim Brotherhood, mind you, the biggest donor to the Muslim Brotherhood is Qatar, who? Last time I checked. Oh, gave the president a $400 million jet. And so I think that. we have to remember that.

this movement, this Trump movement, was a reaction to the status quo. We're both parties have not tended to the needs of working class Americans. They've tended to the top. And then nothing ever, ever trickled down. And so these working class Americans. were just desperate for something that broke through the bullshit. If these politicians you remember when Trump first barnstorm. Lyon, Ted Marco Rubio, I enjoyed it. I thought he was a nut, but I was like, finally somebody calling out.

Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio and low energy Jeb, who seemed to have loved it, was going to just walk into his family's business. But he came in and he said, this party hasn't hasn't delivered for you. Of course, he's. a pathological liar and a grifter and a nut and all of those things. Right? But to those people, it was like, yeah, somebody finally calling out these lying politicians. Fast forward ten years, 11 years. That's kind of what's happening in the Democratic Party right now. That's why you have these new stars rising up, kind of calling out the establishment.

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That's incognito. Com slash beast. So let's get your predictions. Then you mention Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan, the seven Senate. sort of seats that look like they could go either way. It's incredibly tight in Texas, in Maine, in Alaska. So I'm really curious. You mentioned Abdul El-Sayed. We've got Michigan, we've got Maine,

we've got North Carolina, possibly South Carolina now up for grabs. Kansas, Kansas, Alaska, I mean Texas. What are which are the seats that you're most hopeful about? Well, I'm from was born in Dallas, lived most of my life in Oklahoma. But I would love to see Texas turn purple. And it's been so close. But I would love to see Talarico when that seat for a couple of reasons.

Number one, we need the seat. But number two, Christian nationalism is out of control in the South. It is a ideology that people are very angry. about the separation of church and state in the South, and the Democrats. haven't responded to that. So when I see politicians like Andy Beshear or James Talarico. from a personal standpoint, there are little to religious for me. But we are a very religious first world country. The United States is, and I think having these politicians like Talarico.

and Brashear tell Christians, people who really, really value their faith, I can't bully trans people, and I'm not going to do that, and I am not going to advocate for the .01 percent to accumulate. more wealth, because my faith instructs me that that is immoral. And I'm going to advocate for sick kids and for poor kids. And it's a reminder, because religion is so ubiquitous in the Bible. Belt, it's a reminder to these people, you've lost your way.

And I think it's going to take messaging from Christian politicians. to try to correct that. And it has just been incubating down there, and I've lived around it, and it has been incubating and incubating and incubating, and we need to halt it. And so Talarico victory is going to be massive. It's going to be a massive start to defeating Christian nationalism. And they know it. And that's why they're freaking out about him so desperately. Because it is a bigger thing than just Texas going.

It is a big, big repudiation on Christian nationalism. And they lose a lot of their messaging and the fear that they hold over. the electorate. that, you know, God instructs you to do this, and Trump is our imperfect vessel. and all of this crazy stuff, but it people respond to that down there. And so that I'm excited about, I'm excited for, Abdul said. I love Angie Nixon in Florida, although she's down about five points, but I really her campaign, it's just a campaign of joy and she is a good fighter.

She called that CBS news the other day for being I sold us. just directly called him out. They ended up deleting the tweet. I really, really like her a lot. I love Andy Andrews in South Carolina. This is a person. One thing that's not really talked about is all of these red states. v Wade. happened, and if you lived in New York, it didn't happen to you. If you live in California, it didn't happen to you. But if you live in Oklahoma, if you live in Texas, if you live in.

any of these Bible Belt states, it happened to you. V Wade is happening to women. And so seeing a doctor on the ballot in South. Carolina against just an incompetent, ridiculous candidate. This is up against Darlene Graham who took over from her brother Lindsey Graham. Yeah. And so I like seeing that the the Red States. fighting back just because I lived in a red state for so long. And I like seeing them fight back for the people that these MAGA policies injure.

and I mean injure Joanna, they are women are dying. You know, in Texas, they refuse to release a report about how many women had died. because they couldn't access abortions until after the election. Well, what does that tell you about that report? I can only opine that it must not be good for Republicans. And this is women who are often. having miscarriages and cannot get the help that they need. I mean, some of them are told to go and wait in the car park until it's.

so dire that we can then say it's a life saving measure. It's incredible that we're at this point in 2020 to 26 in America. And in fact, Darlene. Graham, interestingly, and we uncovered this at The Daily Beast, Darlene Graham had actually given money to a local candidate in South Carolina. who was aiming to keep options open for women. And now, of course, she's completely reneged on that. In fact, she gave money twice.

And she's completely reneged on it. And now she's just going hard. Right. And that's that's the case study for me. That right there. How many people are reneging on so many things as soon as they get in. Magas orbit? JD Vance Trump is America's Hitler. Yeah. And then he's now a big Trump sycophant. I think we. you know, we've read reporting that JD Vance was so worried about Donald Trump, he was giving information to the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016. And then you look at Marco Rubio, he knows better.

He was on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He knows all the goods on Putin. And now he's ever there clapping like a seal when he meets him, you know, and seal. So that's that's the thing about MAGA. When people get in the orbit, if they don't have a solid core, they don't have solid conviction. God, it just brings out the worst. Like capitulating to MAGA brings makes you the worst version of yourself. And darling Graham is no exception. She's no exception.

All right, so what about Susan Collins, who hasn't fully capitulated. to Trump and has? Obviously, he's not gone to visit Maine in his rallies. She's obviously said, stay away. Stay away. She's trying to pretend like she's independent. She's voted with Trump thinks 78% of the time. Do you think she's going to win over fifth generation logger, which I wish I could say because it just sounds so great. Troy Jackson, I just, I, I personally.

hate Susan Collins so much. I cannot just stand that woman. I think she is one of the worst examples of a politician ever. She doesn't believe in anything she tries to say. Oh, I'm a moderate and I care about women's issues. And then she voted for Brett Kavanaugh. That led to now deaths of American women. To me, it's just I'm so frustrated living in a society. where that should be enough to be the end of Susan Collins career.

That should be enough of it. Remember the first impeachment? She goes, I think he's learned his lesson. Susan, this is not an on the job training to be president of the United States, to find a moral compass, not to lie and blackmail people like, listen to yourself. So I hope that Troy Jackson is able to defeat her. I mean, for me personally, right there with Talarico, that would just be so delicious because Susan Collins is an absolute failure. She puts the needs of herself first.

She votes with Donald Trump all of the time. She is a worthless, absolutely worthless senator as far as Americans go. She's great to do Trump's dirty work. She's great to run interference for corporations. But does she give two shits about working. class people in Maine, or about women or about sexual abuse? No. So good riddance to Susan Collins. So I'm hopeful he's not the most charismatic candidate. But I think that in some of these places, people just want to send a message.

to MAGA and to all of the elites that are propping them up. All of the Republicans that are propping up this regime. hit the brakes, get out of here. And hopefully that's what we see on Tuesday. Yeah. It's interesting. We had Terry Moran on the podcast who spent some time in Maine, and he said, the thing that you get from Troy Jackson, which you don't get when you see him on. television necessarily, is just this sense of authenticity that he is Maine, that,

you know, he talks about being five generations of a logger, and he's been very busy on the state Senate there. He's been repeatedly elected to the state Senate. But whether or not he can bring the star power to actually. beat Susan Collins is a is a tricky one. So it feels like a very tight race. So so if you were to have a prediction for the Senate. Do you have a sense of how many seats do you think the Republicans. are going to lose? I you know, I tend to always believe that, like all of the toss ups, wherever.

they break one way, they're probably going to break that way all of the ways. And so if we see, you know, South Carolina on the East Coast, what we see first, with the exception of probably Angie Nixon, because consistently she's been five points behind, but she's really doing. a lot of rallies, the Latino community communities going behind her. But I think those really tight races where they're within the margin of error. My gut.

and I'm so terrified to say this out loud and I'm knocking on wood. But because we all have PTSD, well, we have such PTSD from the. I just I feel like they're going to break. for the Democrats again when I, when I saw Obama go out there. I thought, he's so good. But we were we elected him and we had pride in him. Those of us that voted for him, those of us that campaigned for him. And he is one of the best things that we did. And so I feel like there's that energy on the ground.

to do something good, to show that we are good people, because right now what we're showing the world is horrible. It is horrible. It's monstrous. What we're showing the world with this country is. And I feel like there is just this I feel connected to Americans right now. more than ever, because I feel like those of us that are good. and I'm not saying like, you know, Jedi two shoes, but believe in goodness. Are uniting to defeat these fascists.

And so I'm cautiously, terrifyingly optimistic. that we take both the House and the Senate. Okay. So so one of the issues that we have talked about repeatedly on the podcast. is the Epstein file, and the Epstein files sort of took a back seat. And I kept saying to people, Has Trump won the Epstein files? Right? Well, I think we have. We did. But they've come roaring back. in the form of a report by the Democrats, which really compiles.

all the Epstein information together in one highly readable document. I couldn't stop reading it when I when I started. It's like the highlights of the Epstein files, if you could say such a thing. Do you think Epstein is going to be a factor in the midterms? I. I think the. Epstein stuff has been so ubiquitous for so long. Do I think that there is a voter. that's pulling out because that's their number one issue?

No, but I think it's cumulative. I think that right now, I read a poll that said. that 88% of Americans are concerned about corruption in government. So if you think about the corruption umbrella, Epstein is under that right. Trump grifter is under that. The pay to play pardons under that, the whatever's going on foreign policy. wise Jared Kushner all of those things are under that umbrella. And so when you see that 88% of Americans,

88% of Americans agree on something is bananas. first and foremost, but it's corruption, too much corruption in government. And in that 88% and in that umbrella is for sure Jeffrey Epstein. And I think that it's just. the elites get away with everything, the rules that apply to them. You know, the rules that apply to us don't apply to them. That mentality, I think, is a very big. driving force in people voting and affordability. Okay. So another driving force that we know about is Elon Musk's.

financing of just so well, his financing of of the Senate races through superPAC. and also his financing of candidates in Texas, where he has his home base of of space and of Tesla. We can vote Donald Trump out. Elon Musk, it turns out, is not for Christmas. He's for life.

He's not like a puppy that you just indulge. and then you're like, oh, I can't cope with this dog. He's now biting all the furniture and he's biting me and he's eating my children. What do you make of him? What do you make of Elon Musk? I my opinion of him is. he is a uniquely American problem. He is obviously the face of,

the way we have favored. and worshiped money to a fault and for all the wrong reasons. And he is the personification of all of that as one person. I think it's insane that we have an individual. that can give hundreds of millions of dollars. to politicians that they want to win, and against politicians. that they don't want to win. And this is just the way I see it, in a very simple way. Let's look at Texas. So I was born in Dallas.

And so if I still lived in Texas, if I'm a voter and not a diehard nutjob political junkie. that I am, just say I'm a normal person that casually reads the news. I would surmise by this that, okay, Talarico is getting individual donations grassroot. You know, I think the average, you know, is ten, $20, whatever. And then, Ken Paxton. is getting, you know, tens of millions from one particular donor. It sounds to me like Ken Paxton is going to be working for one man.

Right? That doesn't seem like he's going to be a good politician for all of Texans. And I think that this is the people's way this election. If Elon Musk if MAGA loses, Elon Musk loses. But most importantly, Citizens United loses. The politicians haven't done anything to fix that. Supreme court sure as hell isn't. going to do anything to fix it because they rubber stamped it. But the people want this fixed.

And if we see unprecedented money. poured in by these techno fascist billionaires. into politics and they lose and their investment is for not, I think the people are saying, you're not going to fix Citizens United. We're going to fix it. Because apparently James Talarico came out with just one ad that said, if you see an ad against me, it's this PAC and it's all Elon Musk. And so all the more ads they throw in,

the poll numbers are completely stabilized. It's having zero impact. And so there is a kind of a backlash from this. that I think is he's seeing, oh wow, this isn't working. Do you remember when he put all that money in Wisconsin? Yes, yes, for the Supreme Court. Yes. And he lost there. And so more than I mean, Trump is kind of on the ballot. His policies are. But I also think these tech oligarchs are on the ballot. And if they lose, then this is a huge message. that the American people want this money out of politics.

So what do you think the Dems do? Assuming they do, let's take a sunny version of this. And you're right. And they win both the House of Representatives and the Senate. What do the Dems do about all the CEOs who've been cozying up to Trump? And what do the CEOs themselves do? Do you think they've just been playing both sides and and, you know, financing Dems as well as Republicans?

What is your what is your hunch about what happens to Mark. Zuckerberg and Sergey Brin from Google and Jensen Wang from Nevada, all these people that have been used by Trump as props around him. I mean, Sam Altman from OpenAI, Dario Amadi from anthropic. You know, there's a really interesting thing to the men that go up to Trump. And these elites have propped up this government. Trump would not be acting so brazenly without all of these industry titans.

propping him up. as it pertains to some particular ones, like you mentioned Mark Zuckerberg. Mark Zuckerberg's company was gaming algorithms in Brazil, and there needs to be investigations into why. this is happening as it pertains to Elon Musk. The cuts with Doge, with USAID, the Starlink situation. There needs to be investigations into that. In my opinion, that was this legal.

Should American companies be interfering in free and fair elections in Brazil? That to me doesn't seem like that should happen. I'm not an attorney. I'm not a policymaker. But that seems really bad. And so I think there needs to be investigations. Some of these tech oligarchs, Kara Swisher, who covers them, she was on my podcast and she said, these guys are such nihilists. They don't believe in anything. The minute it swings back to blue, they'll be like my I'm Tim Cook. My pronouns are he him.

You know, they'll just immediately swing back. I think that the Democrats, if it is the big tsunami. that we think it is, these technologies are dangerous. They're dangerous for our planet. These data centers are going to use so much water, they're not going to be sustainable. Plus these technologies, there's a risk that they're going to wipe out humanity. We need to get we need to lock in here. We need to get serious about regulations. We need to get serious about taxing these people in their wealth.

We need to quit propping them up as though they are these geniuses, extraordinary. because they've been able to ascend to having so much power. There's something immoral about not wanting to pay your workers. a livable wage. In my opinion, there's something immoral about. Possibly terminating employees who want to unionize. When you're Jeff Bezos.

and you have a trust fund, or you have a bank account. that could choke all the bulls on the planet, you know, and he's I mean, we need to start rewarding. business leaders that are good to their employees. We need to change the culture around this. And that can start with policy. And so the Democrats need to cultivate a policy. that is punitive towards these exploiters and rewards companies. that are like we're providing, you know, a year maternity leave.

We are we are creating a culture in our company. where we are putting our employees needs and their wages as something. as a centerpiece, that we are a good moral company. and we don't we don't reward companies that do that. If anything, it's like, why would you do that? You know, you could make 100 million more in your bonus. It's really a sick culture, the way we value money. over working class human beings. It really sickens me. Okay, so some of this you lay out in your book not today, fascists.

You've been all over the country promoting it. What have you learned from talking to people? You've you've talked to live audiences. You've gone around talking to different radio stations. You've done all sorts of podcasts, what have you. You know what's going to be in the second volume of the book? What have you picked up from from listening to people and talking to people? So what I feel like is going on right now is there is the chatter. class in like, you know, cable news and in newspapers,

and they still are operating via the old system of things. And then there are. the people that live in this country and the people that live in this country. Now that the media has been democratized, like where we are right now. are getting their news. from different places and, and they want more, relatable news. because they want when you're reporting that Donald Trump is selling pardons. for, you know, million dollars, $5 million, whatever, and then letting these felons off the hook, it's outrageous.

And they want it reported as such. And so what I'm seeing is that the electorate has become. radicalized and angry, justifiably. And they need to hear from people. You understand that we're not crazy, that this situation is crazy, and we are mad, and we are going to vote to change it. What I'm getting from people is they do not want business as usual. They don't want to hear two sides. There's either a side that's fair or you're a criminal fascist.

And that's the way Americans see it. I mean, I hear all of the time, like I was on Piers Morgan and he was like, you know, Jennifer, do you think it's fair to call them fascist? And I was like, that's what they are, piers. You know, and and people are overwhelming, like, thank God you said it. I mean, when, when, when are we allowed to say it? That's what they're that's the way they're behaving. That's the government they're setting up. And so there is a strong desire from people to, I think, break up with corporations, whether it be corporate news,

whether it be supporting these big oligarchs. that then act like their victims because we want them to pay taxes. I mean, it's the weirdest thing. And I think that the American electorate is mad. and desperately wants to save our country, deeply disappointed. in politicians and corporations that let it get to this point. And I think there's just a disconnect that hopefully, Joanna, on Tuesday, that disconnect is delivered.

to these politicians and to these pundits. and to the consulting class and to the corporate class. We're all still here, and you don't get to tell us how to think or what. This is the news and these are the two sides. I think everybody's kind of done with that at this stage. Well, I love the book. I can highly recommend it. And the thing that I was most envious of in the book was that your dad. owned a sort of amusement arcade, and he owned mini golf, and you used to take your friends to play mini golf after school.

I was so jealous. What an amazing thing. And you, you, you bring up your upbringing and you talk about it. with enormous affection and also. just this kind of weird distance, because you knew. that you weren't of the people that you were growing up with. You knew that you were different to the girls at school. I mean, you have a terrible story of a of a friend who had sort of berated. you at one point because you wanted to show her an X and 18 film.

Yeah. And then the next day she came to school and she pulled you in to. to talk to her in the bathroom, and she was smothered in bruises. because her father had taken a belt to her. And it's this strange, goody two shoes, religious, public version of oneself. And then this private shame of a life. sort of out of control that you managed to write about so beautifully. And then, of course, it leads to your, well, all your all your political beliefs.

Yeah. So growing up, my parents not religious. and progressive, but I didn't I didn't know we were atheists. I just knew we weren't religious. I don't think I knew what the word atheist was, but I knew my mother couldn't. stand religion, and I knew that I was being. highly, highly, heavily recruited to be in religion. And I wanted this was by by your friends, by my peers. Megachurches in the neighborhood. Yes. And they were all very concerned that I was going to hell, that my mother.

was going to hell, that we were not, you know, a godly family. And they were really, really worried about it. And so I would be like, okay, I'll go to church with you. And I would go, and it was nuts. First and foremost, you know, speaking in tongues, you know, BibleThump and hellfire, damnation. Just nothing attractive about it in the least bit. And I'd go home to my mother and be like, mom, I went to church. She's like, oh, for God's sakes, Jennifer, I told you those people were nuts. But my mother and I have this real bond over religious hypocrisy.

And do you remember the senator, Larry Craig? He was trying to have sex in the airport in Minneapolis? Yes, yes. And so anytime there's or Swaggart, anytime there's some sort of religious or Republican hypocrisy. My mother and I kind of have this Pavlovian response. because we know we know that these people, the bigger the Christian, the bigger the hypocrite, the bigger the Christian, the bigger the secrets, the bigger the Christian, the bigger the scandal.

Every single time. Look at Kristi Noem, look at Christine. Look at Kristina. Kristi Noem with her bimbo, vacation obsessed husband. who roared through the family savings on hands. Yes. And you know her cross. She centers her faith. And so you just I have known this the louder Christians. that I knew, the ones who really wanted to recruit me the most, they were the most effed up people privately, every single time.

So you have this. I was not surprised. And you and I have. talked about this before, but when the evangelicals supported Trump, I think people on the coast were like, how can people that are Christians support. Donald Trump? I wasn't surprised at all because this is who they are. They all have these secrets. They all want to grab them by the pussy. They all excuse certain things, or their churches have covered up for sexual abuse. So them covering up the Epstein files when they thought Democrats were doing it,

they were all chips in when Hillary Clinton. had some cannibal eating basement thing, you know, which was all BS. But when it shifted and Donald Trump is in it, then it's crickets, right? Well, why is that? Why are they okay with that? Because these churches do the exact same thing. A child will go tell their parents, you know, this youth pastor did this. They keep it within the church. They don't contact the police. The parents keep sending the kid to the church. This is ubiquitous in Bible Belt culture, so this is familiar to them.

Covering up child sex crimes is a familiar component. Look at the Catholic Church. Look at the Southern Baptist. The Nazarenes have had these scandals. You name a religious institution more than likely, more likely than not, they have had some sort of sexual scandal regarding children. So this is a real moral shortcoming, but this is familiar to them.

Familiar. And that's a really hard thing, I think, for people to understand. hiding, covering up, pretending it doesn't happen is a very familiar part. of evangelical Christianity. Well, it's a big part of Roman Catholicism, too, right? I mean, the Catholic Church has had incredible scandals, especially around young boys. Yeah, and think about the way. the government has handled these Ice agents that shot people. They just transfer them to another place. There's no investigation. What did the Catholic Church do?

Just move the priests to another church? I mean, this is this is the way the world has operated. Our government just hasn't operated like this. And now it is because we have let the, you know, patients run the asylum. And that's what we have going on right now. Do you hear back from people you were at school with? Do people say, oh my goodness, I remember you. We were at school together. Why are you taking against us like this? No, I hear from about 3 or 4 people that are Democrats.

because there weren't that many at school. And so there are about four that I went to school with that. always are cheering me on, that are so glad. that I'm doing all of these things because they know when. and I can't tell you how many people, how many blue dots in red states. Here's the biggest feedback from the book. All of the blue dots in red states feel seen. They feel so seen that I am describing what. it's like to live in a Maga supermajority. That was a Republican supermajority before it was called MAGA.

Magas new to people that haven't lived in Republican states. But for people who always have, none of this is new, it just has a central character to it now. And so these blue dots and red states feel. very seen in the very few blue dots that I went to school with. We message and we still stay in touch. The ones that are Uber religious, I'm sure that they just, you know, one of the one of the things why I think evangelical Christianity is such a. cult is because one of the signs that a group is a cult is.

they are sensitive to criticism. And so and I think whatever your organization is, you should be criticized. Take I've had it podcast for example. You can go to any comment section. It's going to be chock full of a lot of criticisms. Go to my Instagram account. MAGA doesn't like me very much, chock full of criticism. I don't care. I'm a big girl. That's what happens. That's life. Daily beast, you know, open to criticism. But religious institutions get very certain.

Religious institutions get very, very upset about it. And it's because that's built into it. If you criticize religion, that's blasphemy. You're doing Satan's work. You're doing Satan's bidding. And so they're not even equipped to deal with criticizing. This is why they can't even understand. people criticizing Trump because they've enmeshed the two so much. Jesus and Trump and Trump being the imperfect vessel, which is my. an amazing description of Donald Trump. imperfect vessel for it's my favorite.

It's my favorite, the imperfect vessel. It's so essentially, Jen, what you're saying is you're going to. hell, you're going to hell, but you're going to have fun before you go, I'm going to hell. But before I go to hell. This is my dream. God, please, says this atheist, I want the rapture to happen. a good 20 years before I die so that all of the evangelicals are gone. And then we have the planet without them. Could you imagine all of the great work we could do?

That's hilarious. Jen Welch, it is always a pleasure to see you. I don't know anybody who has managed to take that upbringing. and turn it into fuel for what you're doing now, as effectively. It's always good to see you. Thank you for coming in. Thank you. Joanna. So of course I want to know what you think. What does the beast community think about Jen's predictions? Do you think that the Dems are going to take the House and the Senate?

Do you think they're going to take one or the other? I wish I was as optimistic as she is. I'm just not sure about the Senate. Right. And let us know what you think in our comment section. We love to read our comments. I respond to as many as I can and we love reading them. And if you have been, thank you for joining us. and big thanks to our production team, Brian Murray, John Romero, Rachel Pasa, Heather Pissarro and Neil Rose in the house.

So the good news is we have so many B beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.