RFK Jr.’s Sex Poetry Is Sophomoric Cringe: Author | The Daily Beast Podcast

I'm going to read you. This is poetry that RFK junior has sent to Olivia. your open mouth awaiting my harvest. drink from me, love, he continues, I mean to squeeze your cheeks, to force open your mouth. this poem, you know, first of all, reckless because he's. married and he's running for president and like, dude, really, this is. But it's so, cringe. in a particularly to me, adolescent way, just the sheer.

awfulness of the poetry in its adolescent way. is the thing that struck me. I'm Joanna coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. And we have today a wonderful cultural commentator, co-founder of spy magazine, former editor of New York magazine, novelist. and radio veteran Kurt Anderson. To break down.

all the things Marjorie Taylor Greene resigning. the Mamdani and Trump meeting. Who won? We're going to analyze the love poetry of RFK Jr. Who you will remember was Kurt's cocaine dealer. Harvard. And we're going to look at the competing memoirs of RFK Junior's. digital mistress, Olivia Nuzzi, and his wife, Cheryl Hines. The both books are out at the same week. Which one is going to sell more and which one is better written?

Kurt makes a decision. So no time to waste. There is a lot going on and we're going to get into it. think of you as one of. the actually rare people who can pull in everything from pop culture, politics, economics, world peace, wars and make sense out of it. Where do we begin? Should we begin with. Zoran Mamdani and Donald Trump?

Sure. Whose chair I thought looked oddly low behind the resolute desk. Well, the entire setup. I mean, even before that 30 minute, encounter with the press. And the two of them happened on Friday, which was the most extraordinary. political moment that I've witnessed in, well, certainly the last decade. Really, I oh, okay. Interesting. That's a lot, but but you know. Yeah, but the fact that Mamdani asked for the meeting. Wow. That's a kind of a power move as it happened.

And then there he is. Like the old man sitting there looking at looking up at the guy. and him just standing, you know, like the good boy that he is. It was so. Yes. The body language, power dynamics that were amazing from the get go. And then I was just, you know, my jaw dropped literally as I watched that show. That show, show, it is a show. It's so precisely. And that's one of the reasons that's one of the reasons, you know, who knows?

We only speculate about why Donald Trump behave the way he did. But one of them, of course, one of the reasons, of course, is that. he is about the show today to show what will be exciting, what will be, what will keep people riveted, what will get me more attention. Well, not that it was that specifically tactical, cynical, strategic, I don't think. But he it's part of what everything he does. Right. So and but I think it was I mean who knows again. what is genuine coming out of Donald Trump's mouth and brain.

But it seemed like a guy, this avuncular old man like, patting him on the thing. And I'll just go ahead and tell him I'm a fascist and. it's easier. I mean, like, yeah, I mean, it was it was remarkable. And and my theory on that and I think by my close. reading of the transcript confirmed it, which is that. Mamdani was just played it perfectly and being respectful.

Wright called him the president. Yep. President Trump. Yeah. The president, he didn't go in there, you know, with fists raised or anything. He wanted to, you know, get along, as he should have tried to get along and so he did that. I also think because Donald Trump, my kind of main theory of the case of. what the way it did is because Donald Trump is in his bubble, he he sees what he sees and hears what he hears on Fox News and,

you know, associated right wing media sphere. But he didn't really know what Mamdani proposed, right? He didn't know rent freeze. I didn't sound so bad, probably to Donald Trump in a certain way, but it doesn't sound radical. Now, none of this stuff is right. So it probably. But moreover, specifically, I think Mamdani came in there and said, you know, when they were sitting alone, I'm sure said, Mr. President, you know, I really took off by going and speaking to your voters,

working class people of color. in the Bronx and Queens and said, why don't you vote for Donald Trump? Why don't you vote for Donald Trump? And that was really the basis of my campaign. I'm sure it was something like that. And I'm sure Donald Trump had no clue that that was the viral video. that set Mamdani off in the fall of 2024. And I think at that point, like, wow, I love this kid. You know, we're the same. And just like I, I share some things with Bernie Sanders. I well, we we share some we're outsiders and we ran against our party and all that.

I think it was just like it was a new, brilliant level of flattery. It wasn't just the flattery that everyone does and that, you know, Macron and Zelensky and Europeans do now, which is just excruciating. And it's warning it's fawning. It's not sophisticated. This is much more sophisticated, much more like a chess game, I think I think. and, and, you know, and then there it went. And it was, it was, it was remarkable.

But I think, you know, and. and again, as everybody says, of course, you know, a month from now he could be saying, you know, he's a communist jihadist. I was right, the first time in a month he's going to do that this week. He might it I my guess is it'll wait until he actually becomes. mayor on the 1st of January. But who knows? so I loved all and and I think, I thought surprising. we weren't expecting what we got, which is the art of the great producer. Right. That you you twist you deliver a twist.

And then I thought there was an element of game recognizing game. Yes. They both. Yes. No. And I thought whoever had taught Mamdani and I don't know. if this is his mother, Mira Anaya, who's a, I think a wonderful filmmaker. He just stood there holding his hand, which is actually what, King. Charles does. And the royal family is taught. when you're standing there that you hold your fourth finger. And he just stood there and it was so calm. He wasn't fidgeting. He didn't look nervous.

He didn't sound nervous. You're like, wow, you're 34. You're new to this? Yes. And he looked in control. Yeah. And as you say, Trump looked small. He was looking up, which was bad. Sort of weird for Trump to be in that because when Ellen was standing there, you know, 3 or 5 months ago, he was sort of fidgeting. and looking up to the sky, and all that kind of stuff. And, and Trump looked in control. But here you looked like the younger man was almost picking up the reins.

and moving to the next, you know, phase of American politics. Well, in the smile, the fond smile on Trump's. face, one never sees that he rarely laughs. or actually smiles in a meaningful, you know, apparently authentic way. And he was he seemed to be doing that. I mean, I don't know, holiday cheer. He got laid that morning. I don't know, but like get late. But he does have a wife, but she's not there very often.

No, but they have some. I'm just speculating about why he's in such a good mood. The meds, I don't know. But, the other thing that occurred to me, this kind of. And I think it's could be true, which is he is he. has become beloved by and of, you know, young, bearded Muslim guys in the Middle East, right? I mean, that's, you know, and he's been hanging around with them. and they're giving him, you know, many hundreds of billions of billions of.

dollars. And this thing, like he may well say, these guys are okay. And I don't know, they're they're supposedly bad guys, but I like him. They like me. I just I mean, it sounds stupid and vaguely racist and all those things. Well, you know, it's Donald Trump. Well, I think it may be part of it. Like. Oh, yeah, this guy, this guy reminds me of some guy I met in Qatar. I don't know. Well, very possibly.

And also, I do think there is a sort of generational thing where and. I've noticed this in business, actually, where men are incredibly competitive. But the older man, younger man dynamic is better than Trump sitting there. with Macron or even, you know, the German chancellor. or Keir Starmer from the UK, where they're closer in age. that they still feel like they're doing this silverback thing, whereas this is a grandfather reaching down to the younger man saying,

you know, you don't have to answer that question. I yes, I loved it. Yes, yes, yes. It was again, it maybe it was only that one momentary pleasure of last Friday. But my gosh, it was it was just remarkable. And I don't think, you know, we'll see. I don't think it was purely a tactical show. runner choice although it was that as well. Yeah. Well and it's not mutually exclusive. Right. The, the other thing I thought was interesting was him.

and Trump kept saying, you know, New York's that a sort of pivotal moment. It could go well, it could go badly. And you felt actually he was genuinely interested. in the city going well because he benefits from that. Yes. Well, and the other thing, I'm sure he had no idea about when, when mom Donnie obviously told him like, oh, you know what, I want to make more housing, to make housing more affordable. And it won't all be social housing. It will be. There'll be private developers involved. And Trump, I don't think, probably say, well, maybe I can get in on that. I'm sure that it was not literally thought, that's what he's thinking.

Oh building. Yeah. Yeah. Projects for me. Yeah. Yeah. So I think but again I think in his bubble where he just trucks in, you know, New York Post and, and, and. Fox News headlines of the Communist, the socialist, the whatever. We're all leaving New York, I think, he was certainly like, as we know he, he certainly he agrees. with the last guy he talked to repeatedly as a thing he does. Right. Well, we just talk to this guy, and the guy was nice to him,

and he's supposed to be a bad guy, but he was nice to me, so I like him. And by the way, Donald Trump has instincts, but no beliefs as we know. No ideology. No. So like he doesn't care. He you know, I mean, that's that's how he gets along with strongmen of every description. It's because he doesn't care. Okay, maybe they kill the guy on Earth. Well, whatever that happened, you know, he he it's easier. for him to get along with bad guys. As he imagined mom done.

He was, thanks to the daily, front page of the of the New York Post for so long. So, you know, it's it's it's unlike his cult, unlike his true believers, he's. a true believer in nothing who has proven me for nothing. That's a great line. Also, I thought Mamdani discipline in coming back. to the message of affordability. Every single answer he did. And actually, by the end of it, I was convinced that he believes in the affordability thing. and that he, Trump or he might know Mamdani does that.

Right. But but it's so hard not to be cynical about politicians. Oh, sure. Sure. But it was just masterful the way he brought it back. He was apt. I've not. I mean, you said it. You thought it was the most important performance you'd seen for ten years. It's a masterclass in staying on message 100%. Which which is what he has done, which is what he's done for. Again, it's only he only started running, I don't know, 15 months ago. I mean but but he has done that so consistently.

That's everybody from James Carville to all these pros say. even if they don't don't consider themselves democratic socialists, I don't think James Carville does. But like just the sheer staying on message, but not seeming like a regular politician who just boringly stays on message. Right. He's amazing. Oh, he's going to love his wife. And I think Melania will like his hot. Right. There you go. They can go off and do things together. Let's go have spa. Let's go have a spa.

That's very good. The best in spa. Let's go be best in spa. All right, so your great friend. who is gay junior. Who? Who I met once. Yes. Well. But you met him in a very interesting drug deal for, new listeners and new viewers. Could you give an abbreviated version of your cocaine deal with him. when you were both at Harvard together? Because it was hugely popular last time you mentioned it? Well. And and if you'd like the fuller version, Atlantic.

Monthly, of September of 2024, I tell the story, although you don't have the bit about the straw that was only for you. That was only for The Daily Beast. And it got so many comments. People were repelled by the straw. The anecdote. Good. Anyway, anyway, I'd never bought or tried cocaine freshman year in college. I heard a lot about it. Back then in the. in the early 70s, found out. that Bobby Kennedy was the cocaine dealer of our class,

so I, I don't know, I'm called a guy who called a guy. And there I was in his room with my with my roommate, consummating this. drug deal for a gram of cocaine for $40, a lot of money in 1973 or whatever it was. And, tried it, looked at his phone book, found Pope Paul the six. Oh, number. I love that. Okay. Just the way people understand he went out to access his stash.

Correct. Rifled through. He and his brother, Joe Kennedy, the third and future congressman, went out to get his stash. Yes. When we just like, hey. And he invited us to, like, smoke as much weed. that he, sitting around on his backgammon board as we'd like. And we saw this big address book and looked through it and saw these names. of Kennedys and and and famous people and the then current pope, so called the six. and and we would.

we wrote down thinking we will make crank calls to the Vatican or something. I don't know what we thought, but, anyway, comes back, we try the coke, we pay him off, we go away. I had, pocketed, inadvertently, the little piece of plastic, you know, dining hall straw with which we store the cocaine. And, he called me at my dorm room ten minutes later, angry, appalled, upset that I had taken his straw man.

And, I said, what? I didn't say I'm new to this. What? Okay, I'll bring it back. But I did, and he insisted, and he was angry, and he. and he took it, and he and he basically slammed it. Slammed the door on me and but but he. and he had this whole theory of why the straw was so important to him. Not lucky or anything, but that it had crystals growing in it. It was his theory of the case, which was, some idea that. cocaine grows in a crystalline form when it's mixed with mucus.

and in on the inside of a straw, I don't know, but that was his. That was that was the theory of the future. Chief medical science officer of the United States, at the time. Well, and and you didn't know at the time that he was also a poet, a fledgling, which we have learned this week because his digital girlfriend, Olivia Nuzzi, a former reporter at the Daily Beast, sadly, before my time, because she's a terrific writer, has a memoir coming out about that digital affair.

And coincidentally, in a publishing bonanza for the women. around RFK junior, his wife, Cheryl Hines, the actress we know from Curb. Your Enthusiasm, also has a memoir coming out. And I thought, and then, of course, the complicating factor. is that Olivia Nuzzi produced her book American Canto, and her ex-fiancé, Ryan Lizza, has now taken. upon himself to write his version of their relationship. And I'm going to read you, from his installments on Substack.

And by the way, he, it should be noted, has been a senior respected journalist. And so, yeah, he was political correspondent of The New Yorker. I worked with him a little bit at New York Magazine back in the days. Yes, indeed. You know, he's been around. And so there are both. I mean, these are not just, you know, random. people who get into a scandalous set of, well, and I can't I can't help wondering, have they set all this up themselves?

Is this a because it looks as if Ryan, having read her book. or at least had access to the episodes this all this is not what happened. I'm going to write my truth as we refer to it these days on their on their journey. Yeah. Oh, he he's on that journey. But it feels as if perhaps. he is really taking issue with her story. They could they could have concocted the whole thing. And it's a fake route playing out in public for us all to get very intimate.

I doubt that very much. You think it's real? I do think it's real. Okay, so I'm going to read you. This is Ryan has stumbled across. some poetry that RFK junior has sent to Olivia. I'm going to try and read it with a straight face. It's quite difficult and I will say I will. Probably 20 people sent me this over the weekend saying, have you read your open mouth awaiting my harvest. drink from me, love, he continues,

I mean to squeeze your cheeks, to force open your mouth. Sounds really kind of fun, doesn't it? I'll hold your nose as you look up to me to encourage you to swallow. I don't know what he's referring to here. Don't spill a drop. I am a river. You are my canyon. I mean to flow through you. Oh, I mean to subdue and tame you, my love. Yeah, it's it's again, in terms of, remarkable moments.

I mean, what was what struck me? Just what struck me, too, is that my only relationship with my. Mean, I saw him, saw him around college and over. time in New York and Santa Fe and elsewhere over the. You know, I've seen him. I, I've only encountered him and talked to him on that one time. when I, when we were freshman in college and and and the thing is. he was a that was reckless committing a narcotics felony.

When in 1973 selling cocaine. But he was reckless in general then and, and everyone. I knew many of his close friends and they were appalled by his recklessness. Driving, for instance, turning off his. headlights at night and driving through tunnels and things like that. So he he was reckless, a reckless adolescent. Then this poem, you know, first of all, reckless because he's. married and he's running for president and like, dude, really, this is.

But it's so, cringe in a particularly. to me, adolescent way, this 70 year old man or whatever, he was the time writing this thing to this, you know, woman who's almost 40 years younger than he. So the, the, the romantic porn, you know, version of of love poetry, I don't know, I mean, who am I to judge anybody of anything?

However, it's just, oh my God, beyond, beyond. just the embarrassment of the of the of, you know, revelations about one's sex life. or non sex life or virtual sex life. or post-modern adultery or whatever it is. The just the sheer awfulness of the poetry. in its adolescent way is the thing that struck me. But then, you know, I, I pretend to be a writer, and I guess Bobby Bobby doesn't.

He's just a he's just a romantic. He's just a Byronic figure. He's just a Byronic figure with his eyes that Olivia calls. Blue is, I think blue is gas or blue is flame. Perhaps gas is less. Well, and he always got the girls, you know, it's this. This is, you know, to to an extreme and, you know, famously now we know kind of sex addict. way and sleeping with women in every stop along his various. barnstorming tours of America as an activist, as an activist,

the thing I find strange about it is the is the violence in it, you know, holding your nose, squeezing your cheeks. I mean, to subdue and tame you 100%. Which which again, like, I mean, an adolescent might not dare to do. an adolescent who's who, unlike people 50 years ago, has seen a lot of porn. Might be inspired to have this violent porn like,

you know, fantasy encounter with this, woman. But yeah, no, I agree. I mean, short of. And then I will strike you and punch you or something. I mean, it was it was it was hideous. And exactly that, you know, you know, yes. Practically death. dealing descriptions of, of of of this. Well, and also to two point about recklessness. He's sending it to a journalist. Yes. Profiling. And who is,

engaged to another journalist. I got a very interesting note from a viewer. Dimitri. Thank you. Who has created. I didn't fully understand what it was, but it was a sort of a I informational thing. that that focuses on what voters respond to. And his point was that in the age. of where porn is available to everybody, people were actually impressed.

and rather envious of Donald Trump's romantic life. So his affair with Stormy Daniels, they sort of understood and forgave. his cheating on Marla maples with Melania. They understood and forgave. They totally understood. why he had an affair with Marla maples when he was married to Ivana, and that that sense of, oh, actually, this is impressive. And, it's actually a qualifying factor. Well, I think disqualifying in the way it used to be.

I well, and I first noted that when I wrote, this piece. for The New Yorker in 1988 called The Entertainer in Chief, pegged to Bill Clinton and his then Monica Lewinsky scandal. Right. And seeing it as part of a of a history of this. turning of presidential politics into a subset of show business. Right. And and and and what that what I noted is that his approval. ratings went up during this thing because, oh, yeah, Bubba. Bubba is a dirty guy getting it like we all want to, you know, I mean,

so I really think it made it humanized him. And again, as I said in that piece, made this, you know, was. it was a great plot twist for the new season of of Clinton. Right. You know. Right. As he, as he is, he was about to be reelected, you know, so, so, it it has there is a history of this of presidential, you know. Oh, no, we like that. We like that in a man. You know, it's so interesting.

And then we have, at the same time, unscripted by Cheryl Hines. Mrs. Robert F Kennedy, Mrs. Robert, Kennedy. Yes. His third wife, whose story begins, of course, in small town Florida and unfolds across the glittering stages of Hollywood. and right into the heart of the Kennedy family and the presidential campaign. And then further down this, I'm reading from the Amazon description of her book. that the publishers have put put up.

Cheryl navigates the highs and lows of fame, family, and an unexpected foray. into politics, complete with twists no one saw coming. Indeed, indeed. So do we think. Are you going to be by. which book is going to sell better the wife's book or the digital Mr.. I can't I mean, if I had to bet, I would say the, Olivia disease book will sell better. You know, I, I mean,

no one would buy Cheryl Hines book were it not for this, this business. And the fact that Bobby Kennedy is now this, you know, loved and loathed figure and all that, I don't know. And I don't honestly care, but, I, I personally, partly because I'm. an acquaintance of Olivia and partly because she's. had a as you said earlier, she she is a good writer and an amazing reporter. Now, from what I've seen of this, of this excerpt.

I read in Vanity Fair, of, of the book, you know, they're all we, all you, those of us who were writers. And there are certain things we are better at than others. And I'm not sure this kind of revelatory romantic, memoir is necessarily her forte, but we'll see. I haven't read it yet. I mean, we read bits of it. Well, I read bits of it, and I wasn't expecting to like it, and I did like it. And I thought perhaps I should do, short reading.

Please, can I do that, please? I mean, what's it like? Shall I snap my fingers and and, play the bongos as you do this? Well, we could do a kind of musical interpretation of it. I mean, there's quite an interesting, I mean, given Robert Kennedy Junior's. background, it's quite an interesting paragraph. I would take a bullet for you. The politician said he always said that. Please don't say that. I said I always said that. So clearly, a conversation I had a lot of from his mouth.

The bullet theoretical launch, the bullet possible. I did not like to think about it. About the armed man at his speech, or the armed man who broke into his home, or the armed man he paid to guard him from armed men. who sought to harm him, while the federal government. denied his pleas for protection from the security agency, whose modern protocols were carved by the same bullet that cut boughs. from his family tree and cut the track of the American experiment.

Yeah. It's interesting. I just started reading this new, piece. in the Atlantic about Kennedy in my 10,000 shares. Right. But 10,000 words long. Otherwise I would have already read it. Yes, indeed. Dropped this morning. And we're recording this on Monday. Yes. And it leads with with with, share the reporter being with. Robert Kennedy on a military helicopter, as he is told by, an assistant about the murder of Charlie Kirk, his friend.

Charlie Kirk, and, you know, given again the, Kennedy history of assassination. You know, sure is struck by this and, and uses as his, an incident in his lead, but he is struck by the absolute equanimity of. Bobby Kennedy. As he learns this, he goes, oh my God. But then he, you know, he. And it's interesting. I mean, you know, he is a human being.

And he's had these horrible things happen when he was a child. You know, and now he's running for president and. you know, you do wonder I mean, again, I think of him as a both, as a human being. and as you know, I read fiction as a fictional character, kind of. and like the comedy, the whatever world he's in as a result of having. been the nephew and son of of these murdered, you know, political heroes of people.

And now he's do it. Now he in his world, turned upside down way, becoming a Kennedy in political life, running for office. And, you know, making people hate him and love him. You know, he he he in his way, of course, you know, I mean, he. fulfilled his destiny in this twisted way. And and so maybe, you know, in his again, in his not just reduced. everything to the brain worm, but it's shorthand brain wormy, you know,

started taking acid at age 14, which was also reported way. Maybe. Maybe he just thinks of himself as this character. who is destined for tragedy or something, or. I don't know, or maybe he's just a sociopath. who doesn't really care about his best friend getting killed. I don't know, but it's it is the thing about him as well. And we're of course, we've alighted and left out the horrible stuff. he is doing to American science and American public health, right?

I mean, which is really the point, which is really the point. And and again, you know, yeah, he was a, he, he was a drug dealer. That's, that's how I met him. And, and and he then endorsed a guy who, who was campaigning Donald Trump. on the expeditious, almost extra. judicial, execution of any drug dealers. He really he campaigned on that, and now he's sort of making good. on that in the killing almost 100 people at this point,

just rent, you know, supposedly drug traffickers in these 20 odd boats. So, but but so there's the oh, my God, drugs. They're evil. Yeah, sure they are. And Bobby Kennedy experienced them as evil, but he was a drug dealer and, you know, under the well and a drug addict for many years, a heroin and a drug addict. But but even worse, of course, potentially is is what the.

the damage he is doing to this incredible public health. medical research system that the United States is at the center of in the world. And so, the, the, the, the misplaced horror about the problem of drugs. is, in this case is a kind of tragic irony. Well, and also that they're, they're also restricting or. I think actually stopping the Narcan program, which has been really effective.

in stopping people dying from opiate overdoses. Oh, and one thing, again, as I said in that piece, saying, this guy sold me drugs and now he's endorsing this guy. And it's just one example of the crazy hypocrisy of of him. in his in his desire and need and yearning. for addiction to perhaps attention. Is, is is. So somebody should ask him, what do you think of.

that, your man campaigning. to execute on drug dealers like they do in China right away again. in this the these things like, okay, you have had this experience. of the miserable opioid addiction for more than a decade. What do you think about getting rid of this stuff? Mr.. Secretary of Health and Human services it's it's. again the the you know, well on the damage he's done with his vaccines conspiracy theories too. I mean, you know, measles making a resurgence in various parts,

all of it, all of it. It's, it's inconceivable that he should be doing that job. And yet there he is. Yeah, well, and that's a whole other discussion in which I, you know, and it gets back to both in a certain way, the Mamdani charisma thing, because of course, Kennedy's have this charisma. Now, you know, 75 year old inherited charisma. But there it is. And and, you know, Jack Schlossberg.

Yeah. Let's, just, you know, is is running for Congress. One of, I don't know, a dozen people running for Congress in this in this, Manhattan district. Because he's a Kennedy. Because he's a, whatever, third generation, fourth generation Kennedy. It is good looking and, and and is it's it's it's a kind of to me, you know, a rotten charisma in a way. I mean, nothing no reflection on Jack Schlossberg on when he was attacking,

his, his Bobby Kennedy and all that. It was amusing and good. And I'm glad all the ways that his cousins. and relatives found to say he's bad and he shouldn't be elected to anything. And his mom did. Right. Caroline Kennedy indeed. Indeed. His cousins. And that's all fine. But this this, like, why are we apparently paying attention to Jack Schlossberg? I mean, to the degree and why? And really, really, you're going to run for the House of Representatives.

and you were just, you know, a struggling actor five minutes ago. And that's your experience, except for being a Kennedy. And so as opposed to, you know, genuine, earned, astonishing charisma of a kind, I'm sure you know, no, dummy is not a war hero, but he he he like Jack Kennedy in the day or or maybe more aptly, like Bobby Kennedy, you know, had, people. it was genuinely politically potent, not just some dynastic inheritance.

Like, he's. entitled people had, as Bobby Kennedy had. frankly, who can forget the video that Caroline Kennedy put out. where she talked about RFK junior when they were young? Having smoothies for his snakes of live creatures. in the basement, and her describing him as this dark character, this, this really dark, negative and turning her turning other cousins of hers.

and brothers of his as she accused him in that video into attics. Right, right. Absolutely. So, so her son, Jack Schlossberg, running. for Jerry Nadler's old seat. Does it help him that his name is Schlossberg, or should he be calling himself Schlossberg. Kennedy or Kennedy? Schlossberg? Well, because he's got the benefit of being a Kennedy, but alas, without the name recognition. So on the ballot form, people might not know who he is.

They might not. And, you know, I mean, I don't think that's going to be work. when one way or the other, I mean, the people. in this, you know, maybe, maybe the densest congressional district in in America, in the middle of Manhattan, people will know that this is the Kennedy kid, right? This is the Kennedy Kennedy kid. So, I mean, if his name were I mean, he can't do that. He can't start calling himself,

Kennedy Schlossberg, I don't think, but, I don't know, I, I. he should go back to being whatever an influencer, I think. And, and and to me, it's the, you know, it's the, you know, when you, when you, when you. get, try to get too many cups of tea out of a tea bag. You're English. You know, these things. It's like, exactly what we did was like the eighth cup. You know, in this third generation, there's almost no flavor left. Well, no flavor and no need to exist as opposed to,

you know, young. politicians who are earnestly committed. to helping people and who, yes, had a famous movie director, somewhat famous movie director, as his mother. But is is is a whole different, you know, is is a is a kind of charisma. that is genuinely inspiring as opposed to, oh yeah, he's sexy, he's. glamorous as a, you know, and so I'm not and I don't want to slag all Kennedys.

I knew John Kennedy Jr a little and, and spent time with him. and, and you know, talk to when he's starting a magazine. Gave him whatever advice I had to give and he was he was great. And, entitled. I'm of course, entitled. He wouldn't have been able to do what he did. without being the son of a president. But but but so, you know, you know, it's not it's not it's. not every Kennedy child and grandchild is is a loser at all. Many of them are great and trying to do good things in the world.

And of course, Caroline's other child, Tatiana, daughter, wrote a devastating essay in The New Yorker this week. describing the fact that she's very ill and is being given a year to live, which is tragic. And I think she's also 34. Yeah. Very talented writer, fantastic writer. Right. She's a journalist and environmental journalist and also, sounding off. against her uncle because she's because she's gone through extensive chemo. She has to have more vaccinations and she's now anxious.

She can't get the vaccinations because of her uncle. Right. And, you know, has, you know, immuno issues and all these things that, that his, his wreckage at the Health and Human Services and the NIH, even worse. perhaps probably is would would, would make her less likely to live. And so no, that's it's true and. and damning and, and, you know,

frankly, more whatever. suitable appropriate than, what. perhaps her brother Jack is doing by saying. we need more countercultural people in the Democratic Party. But one of the things he said anyway. No, she is, she is she it's it's it's horrible and tragic. And she is, doing her very best to use this.

unfortunate piece of notoriety she's gotten. I mean, a lot of people are saying, especially with the Epstein files, that Trump now suddenly seems weaker. He's in a lame duck period earlier than perhaps one might have expected. But the election results. for the Democrats a couple of weeks ago sort of make him look more vulnerable. Marjorie Taylor Greene is leaving. Do we think. as people begin to circle Trump, who feels to me a bit like a wounded bull,

I don't know if you've ever been to a bull fight, but this that awful moment where the bull is suddenly wounded. and he's kind of stumbling around and there's a feeling, I think, of Trump, which we saw in the Mamdani. press conference, the new generation coming through. And the point I'm getting to is the assumption has always been, I think that JD Vance or Marco Rubio are probably. the most likely to inherit the MAGA base and yet actually unlikely. as it seems, RFK junior feels like he's obviously going to run.

a lot of the MAGA base. Love what he's doing with his vaccine skepticism. Do you think he could ever actually become president? God almighty, this. I've not even spent a second kind of playing that. I mean, you know, given everything over the last. several years to sort of don't say no, that's impossible. I would, I would if I were in, you know, in the betting markets, I wouldn't. bet on that happening and I don't and, and, and you know, depending on the degree to which the, the,

the Republican Party. absent Donald Trump at its head. will we'll split up, divide, you know, kind of betray its absolute incoherence at this point. You know, anything's possible. And since and that's the thing, you know, I mean, for the last ten years now, what the Republican Party has done ideologically is adapt to. whatever this person with with no real beliefs or principles.

or ideology. has instincts about or or, you know, once his vanity, you know, stroked for I mean, it is all about. how do we obey and please and not anger, Donald Trump and get him on our wrong side. and primaries and purge us from the party. So they haven't spent, you know, any real time that the Democrats.

have been doing for now, a year of saying, okay, what are we about again? Well, let's figure out what we're supposed to be doing. What kind of what are we believe in? What? I thought we were against Russia, but no. So so the the the as soon as Trump, assuming he doesn't run, try to run again and he's gone. And he is indeed the lame duck that he seems to be incrementally. more and more each day. What, that awaits. Right.

Because there is no replacement for Donald Trump, right. In terms of the singular sui generis, like, you know, superhero. demigod quality that Donald Trump really is. And one has to admit it, he's he's not just a once a generation character. He's one of these one or 2 or 3 people in a century. character of his, of his, you know, extraordinary powers. So so that just won't happen. And so I don't know what, once, you know,

so, I mean, you know, is it a Marjorie Taylor Green party? Is it a Bobby Kennedy party? Is it a is it a J.D. Vance party? You know, I mean, and again, we are now in a time when it seems as though people with a certain amount of. outsider, dim charisma, pre marketed fame, Donald Trump, or whomever, you don't get elected just by reading the script. We saw that with Ron DeSantis, his miserable failure to write him like a president with J.D.

Vance. Yeah. I mean, yeah, sure, he reads the script and he'll say anything. and do anything to get along. But the sense of authenticity that, for better and mostly worse, Donald Trump has is just not there. Or, or, you know, so, Bobby Kennedy maybe, but I just don't see. You know, most of Donald Trump's voters, some of them are these so-called Ma voters who like, you know.

Yeah. Are skeptical of vaccines and, and, you know, medicine, mainstream medical wisdom and everything else. But but it's not why he that's not why, you know, is a part of the coalition, but it is not the coalition. And, and, you know, so I find that. highly. unlikely that that Bobby Kennedy, that he makes it.

What about Marjorie Taylor Greene? You said that, you know, the Republicans have been beaten into submission by Trump. Who will primary them, who will turn against them? She says that she spent millions of her own dollars, campaigning for him. She'd been elected five years ago. She is resigning so that she leaves two days after her. congressional pension kicks in. Good job. Marjorie. You know, she's only been there for years.

Yes. Yeah, so do we. Five years, I think. So. Do we think that? Well, why do we think she's resigning now? Well, you know, she's a politician, so maybe she has a bigger picture. in mind of leading this new post-Trump movement. that if, if but my information, because I have my little Pollyanna. heart believes in sincerity of some people I believe I was. So I listened to her whole all of her and read all of her speech things.

And, you know, I think she's a true. Morgan, which is to say, sincere about her delusions. Yeah, sure. She she she is, you know, she is a politician. She got elected. She understands that she's not. And she. Oh, and, you know, back in the beginning of her career in the house, she understood, like, oh, I can I can work with Kevin McCarthy, you know, sort of join this new establishment. is this ultimate Republican political hack.

Kevin McCarthy, embraces me. Great. So she's not, you know, a dope, but. but again, she's new to politics and this sense of, like, her, her disillusionment about like, yeah, they're just guys in suits. They don't really believe this stuff. I don't know, struck me as authentic and genuine. So we'll see. I mean she may just like go off and, you know, get more CrossFit and. and and and and have a life in northern Georgia.

Or the reason she was able to give millions of dollars. to other Republicans is because she's an incredible fundraiser. Right. And and is is, you know, she is a true modern. And as, as you know, you know, ten years in, as Donald Trump just does nothing but, you know, dine. with billionaires either, you know, Saudi and Gulf state billionaires or,

or or us billionaires and, and, you know, let them eat cake to the rest. and is not America first in any sense of the meaning. of that idea? You know, she may be the leading edge of like of, of, you know, the, the. people opening their eyes and seeing reality. And they're not so deeply in the cold, even though she was literally in the cult. of Q anon, that they can't, like, finally wake up and go, yeah, this guy is not it.

We're we're moving on. He can't run again anymore, you know, I mean, so. and she has two daughters in their 20s, but soon, are going to see their health. premiums rise considerably, probably double or possibly triple. So that also brings it home. I don't understand how Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene, thought that they could sign up to the big beautiful bill, kick the premium, the health premiums down the road,

and not be expected to get kicked out in the next in the midterms. I just don't understand it. It's it's. it doesn't matter if they send a $2,000 check if your premiums are doubling. Oh, that's literally lived experience of more money. every single month that you are spending for the same thing. Right. And, and this ongoing absolute insecurity of will I have it next year. What will happen? What's going to happen. And you know, and people say this obvious thing, but it's really true is that well, Congressman, I guess people never have to worry about health care.

They're going to have it as long as they get elected. Right. Which is another reason it's. it makes them more like unaccountably desperate to get reelected at all costs. Probably. But you know, there are. there are those like the, the real just pure cynics like Josh Hawley. who are playing at being the true working. man's friend and and breaking with the Republican Party. here and there on union representation and things. And, and I hate, I hate that we're raising, health care, but I voted for it.

Yeah, but I'm going to try to get, you know, so he he is the. he is the trying to have it both ways as he walked past January. the 6th is raised all of that and but trying to be the man of the working class. But it's interesting when again not to bring anything back to Mamdani. and Trump, but when when Trump has said no during that, meeting with Mamdani and since, like, you know, Bernie Sanders and. I actually have a lot of things in common, and a lot of his voters were for me. And that's all true. Right?

And and people forget. And I've never forgotten his final big two minute ad in his first campaign in 2016, which was. could have literally been a Bernie Sanders campaign commercial. Right? You know, it was it was about Wall Street and how they're ruining your town. and they're taking your jobs away, and they're destroying. the small businesses and on and on, and, you know, on and on. And so, you know, of course, he didn't govern that way and never has. And he's governed as a traditional Republican rich guy.

We don't want taxes. We don't want regulation guy. But he he has that part of how he got elected. That's part of how he convinced this, you know, white working class, part of his key part of his coalition to vote for him in 2016. Like, oh, he'll mix it up. He's not a regular Republican. He's finally one of these one of these national Washington. politicians cares about us. And really sees us and speaks to us. Well, you know, and there are all kinds of ways that people then begin justifying.

loving him. Continue. But I don't know, I. And the cult will be the call that it will have. It may be down to 23% at some point, but you will have that. But the other half, let's say, of the 49.5% of people who voted for last year, you know, aren't are, you know, and Marjorie. Taylor Greene, who was as she herself said, I worked hard for him. I believed in him.

I, and like and and and now I'm disillusioned. I don't know, I don't think she's a, you know, unique figure. in the in his electorate. Right. Well, and she's in the grocery stores looking at process. and as you say, I think that the the children's thing and the children. having to pay, you know, whatever they're having to pay twice. what they're paying for health care is, is a real thing. And, you know, yes, she is enough of a real person of the people. And not just pretending or not.

Once was he. She's still there, you know, for all of her. skill and success as a, as a, as a political figure in the party. So we'll see. You'll have to come back and we'll do a deeper dive on Marjorie. Taylor Greene and what she's up to and whether or not she, you know, joins. Erica Kirk and the Republican Party. falls into the group of two blond women. Yes. Or, speaking of blond women, Robert Kennedy Jr, the the Bobby, Marjorie, ticket, you know, Marjorie ticket.

Oh my goodness, Bobby. And of course, that would that would be very appealing. I think to be. Yes. No. And into the in the march in the, in the horseshoe theory where, where these. there is this, you know, as Steve Bannon has been like, oh no, we're about the working people. We're about giving them. Yes. Making sure they have health care. Like all of the far right parties in Europe do. Right. You know, I mean, the, the horseshoe, that would be a, an example of the ultimate realization.

of the so-called horseshoe theory of politics, where the left and right. right joined together, joined together at a certain point. Oh my goodness, Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Bobby. and the Marjorie ticket that has given me something to think about. It's like a spy headline. Well, there you go. Yes, yes it is. It seems unbelievable. An RFK junior mtg ticket.

And yet, the minute Curt said it, I could sort of see it. Oh my goodness. Well, leave us a comment on what you think. Is that. Is that even plausible? Is it even feasible? And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, join the Daily. Beast community on the podcast and you get tons of extra content. And don't forget beast and thank you. to our beast tier of readers who are Herbie, Andrew Miller,

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