Real Reason ABC Bowed to Trump on Kimmel: Michael Wolff | Inside Trump's Head

The MAGA position is release all the information about Jeffrey Epstein. The Trump position is do not talk of Jeffrey Epstein. saying see and put his his his fingers in his ears cover his eyes. No, Jeffrey Epstein. So we are back. We're recording this on Thursday morning. Michael, have you recovered from your, 200ft. projection of your face on Windsor Castle?

You know, I think I'm going to live with it for the rest of my life. Okay, so yesterday when we were talking, you said that you thought. Trump was winning the war with the media, and I slightly pushed back, and I thought you were being hyperbolic. Literally two hours later, it was announced, ABC announced that Jimmy Kimmel's show. For those of you who don't know, Jimmy Kimmel, for those of you, listening in the UK or, in Australia, where we hear from,

and also Canada, where we hear from people all the time, Jimmy Kimmel is a lame. tire, English speaking world is at is at our feet. Yes. Okay. Thank you. The entire English speaking world. I don't know if they're at our feet, but they're definitely sending us comments on YouTube. And please keep them coming because they mean a lot. Jimmy Kimmel, late night comedian on ABC. His show was being suspended indefinitely. and literally within, I would say five minutes of that news going out.

It felt as if a chill had a rippled across the entire of the United States. Okay. So and he was specifically, what do we call an indefinite? He was specifically indefinitely suspended. because of comments he made about Charlie Kirk. Right. And that has suddenly Charlie Kirk has suddenly become. the third rail of American political discourse.

This does seem like a moment of censorship. Is it or is it simply a trade deal? Let let's. Yeah, it it is. But even before I'm absolutely censorship fear, rank fear. Everybody running in the opposite direction of, of controversy, running it in the opposite direction of Donald Trump's wrath and ire. But I just want to want to tell a sentimental story, about Jimmy Kimmel.

and Donald Trump, because that's where my Trump. journey began in the spring of 2016, that I first interviewed Donald Trump in his political life. in the green, in Jimmy Kimmel's Green room. Trump was out in LA doing. the Kimmel show, and I was invited to watch him do the Kimmel show.

and then to talk to him in the in the in the green room. And so in an interesting point that is now, you know, coming on ten years. ago, at that point, Kimmel and Trump. were were completely jocular with each other. I mean, the whole mood was you're a star. I'm a star. We're both stars together, and we're both kind of enjoying this, moment.

of thinking that Donald Trump might be president, although at the same time, we, we, we understand that. that is still the most unlikely, the unlikeliest of outcomes. But very much they very much got along. When I saw Trump afterward, he was delighted with Kimmel, delighted with his performance, of course, on, on, on Kimmel. And, and then actually, we spoke long into the night,

we repaired to his house and in, in Beverly Hills and, and spent spent hours and hours each, each eating a tub of Haagen-Dazs ice cream. But okay, that's such a strange visual. And of course, there is a Zelig like story of you. in Jimmy Kimmel's green room with Donald Trump. Totally. I mean, and then in that, in the in the House he has. So he has this, this, this house in Beverly Hills, smack in the middle of Beverly Hills,

across the street from the Beverly Hills Hotel, filled with kind of cast off. hotel furniture and a refrigerator. When you open the door, it was just just pint of Haagen-Dazs. Haagen-Dazs after pint of Haagen-Dazs. Can I ask what flavor that was? That was vanilla. Vanilla? Although he has switched in the, you know, over the course. of of the past ten years, he now likes, strawberry, vanilla,

but we. digress from major media censorship, at any rate, I, I follow this because because the people around him. are always reporting on his, on, on his ice cream, preferences. But he said, you know, open the door in, you know, and said, you know, took out a pint and he said, asked me, do you want one? I said, no, I don't, but he threw one at me anyway.

So there we were then, sitting on the couch, eating our our ice cream as we spoke long into the night. And what I the point I want to make, other than this sentimental one of. That's where my journey began, is that there is a difference. That over the time, this this time, he has he has gone from a figure. kind of I you know, I think I think in enjoying the whole idea of,

of his notoriety, of, of his rise, unexpected rise in politics, not taking it that seriously. and clearly over this time that has, that has, you know, fundamentally, transitioned in. to incredible defensiveness and incredible anger. in an incredible sense of, of, of him against everybody else.

And in this case, obviously him against his old compatriot, show business compatriot Jimmy Kimmel. And is he also against the people that work with him? Does that animus extend to people like JD Vance and Pete Hegseth? Oh, well, it ultimately extends to everyone I with without without question. I mean no one gets out of Donald Trump world alive.

I think that's a reasonable given. But I also think this in, in in terms of, you know, where we are at this moment, Charlie Kirk is, is killed. and immediately thereafter this becomes the. the rationale, the stated rationale. for the Trump administration to crack down on the media. and on free speech, or as he says, left is speech.

This is not there's there is nothing, in nothing. There is no pretense here. They have made this announcement. JD Vance has is is out there out there, shilling for this. But Trump two has made it clear we are going to go after the. after the leftist media left this speech. So and I don't, you know, the,

the way they went after Kimmel in this in this instance is that the, is that the FCC chair started to make. Marco started to object to this. And, and that spread to affiliates. Affiliates or the, the, in the television stations that, that carry the, the, the Kimmel show, one of the big affiliates.

is in the middle of a merger, which they will need approval from. That's next, from the Trump administration. So therefore they immediately. came out and said, yes, we're not going to carry the Kimmel show. And then, Disney, who owns ABC, the network. that Kimmel is on, then they immediately announce this, indefinite suspension. And that would have come from the top from the CEO,

Bob Iger. And, you know, and it's I mean, you have to step back and say, here is Bob Iger, the billionaire CEO of the most powerful. entertainment company in the world. Immediately, with hardly a second thought. cowering before the, the desires of the Trump administration. or or is this a CEO making a very practical decision.

that his stock has underperformed the S&P? He can't afford to lose next, as an affiliate. or indeed Sinclair, which is another affiliate. Both Nexstar and Sinclair are conservatively led. And he's making a pragmatic business decision. Well, I think it's the same thing. Six and one, half dozen of the other. I mean, he realizes that the ire of Donald Trump will be bad for business. And so, therefore, we submit to that now.

I mean, it used to be not that long ago that media companies, because they are media companies because they have to maintain a button and. no matter their shareholders interests, there is their audience interest. There are many other stakeholders in a media company, and they have to maintain credibility. If you if you lose that, then you lose the store. would have been the old rationale on this.

In in this instance. Now if you lose Donald Trump, you lose the store. I would be fascinated to be a fly inside. Bob Iger's inbox this morning. Also a man in his 70s, also a man who gave up power, and gave up being CEO and then came back. after a famous battle with the guy he put in to replace him, Bob Chapek. One of the reasons he gave for Canada, not a name that many people remember at this very good.

Well, but one of the reasons and one of the rationale for Bob Iger. coming back was that Disney was beginning to lose the creative. community, the creative community, for the most part, love, Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel is a rare, late night television politician who actually lives in L.A. he makes pizza at home with Bob Iger. They are personal friends also. Let me, let me let me point out that he's one of the few late night comedians. who has been able to maintain.

the comic edge about Donald Trump. Well, other late night comedians have have veered off. or into outrage, and Kimmel has managed. to maintain his focus on the absurd. The. Well, there's also Jon Stewart and John Oliver right there, and I think there, and I think they're in there in outrage territory. Not, not not that I would necessarily fault them. I mean, that's where we're all going to end up. But the ability to maintain.

that focus on absurdity is, is a comic touch, which, I think Kimmel deserves an enormous amount of credit for. Well, what's also interesting is that Kimmel is very much thought of, I think, at Disney, or ABC as a team player. I mean, this is the guy that hosts the Oscars when nobody else will. I've been to the upfronts, the big ad festival where the TV companies. turn up and sell their future shows, and he's been a host of that and unfunny. and taken, you know, poke to advertisers and made the whole thing.

a show in a way that a lot of other networks can't do. So for them to sacrifice a team player like this also seems significant. But then Disney may go on to lose the creative community over this. I mean, I understand that they don't want to lose that the Trump and the. they want FCC approval for whatever M&A they may have in their future. But this does feel like a moment I do. And on a on a if if we put our I mean, I began,

I've spent most of my career as writing about about the media. And if I put that at least prior to writing about Donald Trump and, if I put that head on, I would say that this is probably a. deep, deeply, a, an unforced error. that will cause Bob Iger likely let me go out on a limb here. Cost him his job.

So interesting because the person within Disney. who is thought likely to take over from him is Dana Walden, probably the most powerful female executive in Hollywood, very much admired. And of course, the complexity here is that she is well known to be. Kamala Harris's best friend. Grimm. That's a that's a that's a grim. corporate bit of politics. But I think unless.

someone breaks from this, I think they'll both go down. This this is a this is an, you know, there's a lot of things in the reaction to Trump. The the reflexive reaction, the knee jerk reaction. that's just serious unthought out, knuckle headed stuff. And I think that's a, that's a reflection of of how, how afraid people are of, of of Donald Trump. Well, let's then.

just examine the dinner. last night, the famous white tie dinner, which looked spectacular. I will say, watching it online and on television. Stunning flowers. Everybody dressed to the nines. One was very cognizant of Prince Charles's lapels. full of medals and Donald Trump having no medals. I'm sure he's going to come back and say, I want a jacket like that with some medals on it, but also around. the table were some of America's most senior executives.

You had Tim Cook from Apple, Satya Nadella from Microsoft, some open from open AI. What are the you know, what are they thinking? What are they thinking? I mean, you know, and I can only interpret this. I mean, at first thing Tim Cook shows up and all all of these, these things, the, you know, again, the billionaire CEO. of arguably the most important company in the world.

And also sitting next to Tiffany Trump, I was like, what are they talking about? Why is he doing this? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's I don't so I can only assume that they, that they get all the get together and say might of this guy Trump is easy to play. And all it requires is is us to do some, some ritual vows and say some baloney, and then we get what we want.

And isn't it a great day for business? I mean, it's the only thing that I can assume is cannot possibly be. that they think Donald Trump is anything other than a clown, a fool, a charlatan. I mean, I know that's what they what they they think that is what literally what. everyone who comes in contact with Donald Trump. thinks I, even his supporters. So, again, that's that's that's it. But. And then the Brits are on, on their part,

you know, who are desperate for a trade deal. So, everybody got together. and decided, okay, you know, we're going to we're going to, we're going to treat Donald Trump as the real king. One of the things that people always say about an encroaching autocracy, and they always talk about Putin like this, is that when Putin first took over, the thing that got canceled. first was a puppet show, a comedic puppet show on Russian television.

And you talked a couple of weeks ago on the podcast about this. being a frightening moment. And this could actually be what autocracy looks like, that it's not people with jackboots marching down the street. It is Jimmy Kimmel being canceled. Jimmy Kimmel, of all people you know, in third place as a late night comedian on ABC. I mean, and it would be wrong to to start there to mark this at the beginning.

It has begun too long before this or it began, almost begin before, he. he actually came into office for his second term. And that was forcing ABC into a settlement. That was $15 million that went into Trump's pocket. It was one of those things that certainly had they gone to a trial, ABC would have, would have, would have won.

Actually, they would never even have gotten to it to a trial. But ABC, again, ABC, which is owned by Disney. So this is not this is the Kimmel. The Kimmel. The Kimmel issue is not is not the first issue that ABC has folded on. And they folded on on the Stephanopoulos issue, and then CBS, which is, was in the process of a merger.

with, with, David Ellison, who was then the nepo baby son of Larry. Ellison, who vies with Elon Musk. for the title of richest man in in the world. Right. The founder, the founder of Oracle and soon to be owner of TikTok. Right. So they they did in order they, CBS believes that in order to facilitate that deal, they had to do they had to. they had to settle because Trump had stood 60 minutes.

because he didn't like the way he thought that they had edited. an interview with Kamala Harris in two favorable away. The trailer was different to what they actually put out in the interview, right? Yes. And again, you know, another. absolutely frivolous lawsuit that Trump would have lost. But because of this, because CBS was.

was highly aware of of the pressure. he could bring that might block this merger, they settle. Now, we should also add that the Ellison's father and son. are now trying also to buy, to buy Warner Discovery as so. which would make them be by far the largest media company, in the world. Although having said that, I think Disney may still be larger, but,

Larry Ellison also, let's remember, has been a very key and ardent supporter of Donald Trump. Well, and may. well get the ownership of TikTok right, which we're expecting to hear. Donald Trump is speaking to Jingping tomorrow. And in theory, he's going to come away with a solve for the tick tock issue. It's going to have American ownership. So just. Yeah.

So let's just just just imagine first thing we have. we have a media business, you know, most of the, the major news app. that will include most of the major news outlets in the in in the country. already running scared of Donald Trump. I mean scared. I mean, they are bowing down. Trump brings pressure. They fold. Now that's now, we put that together with the fact that the. that the Ellison family, passionate supporters of Donald.

Trump are about to move their corner of the media market. Well, and they're about to own CBS. Well, they do own CBS news. And if they buy Warner Brothers Discovery, they will have CNN. There you go. So two significant news channels. Yeah. No, I mean, this is a this is a. Put a put put up the red flag at this. This is a, this is a moment which.

I think we will return to. So Governor Newsome, who's. emerging as the loudest voice on. the Democratic side, is saying Donald Trump has got dementia. Grandpa, take your meds. His social media is cutting through. To some extent. There's gerrymandering going on in Texas and in various other places. But what is the sort of moment of hope here for the Democrats?

Well, I believe me, Joanna, it's hard to find one. Where are we to dig deep. and and and hope that there is hope. We would say that that. Donald Trump's numbers are soft. Certainly is falling. Arguably the economy is. is, is heading into,

you know, certainly the sky's our dark thing. There's, I think I think across the board, you can argue that the news for Donald Trump is not getting better. And let's not. we should not forget Jeffrey Epstein. Or as Trump says, Epstein. Epstein. Epstein. So we could. I think it is still a very good possibility,

even a likelihood that the Democrats will take. the House of Representatives back during in the midterm election. And if that happens, it's a it's a significantly different ballgame. All right. We've got lots of questions and lots of comments from people that have come in. One of the observations people have is that JD Vance. and the crew around Donald Trump seem almost giddy with power. Certainly, JD Vance. stood in for Charlie Kirk hosting his podcast earlier this week.

And he's been out there. I think people want to know, where is MAGA? On the free speech issue, because there's been a lot of pushback. against Pam Bondi, who came out against hate speech. The First Amendment is very much a core of MAGA, and there's been a lot of pushback, against Pam Bondi. So. So where is MAGA actually on this issue? You know, you I think probably MAGA is somewhat divided on this issue.

Theoretically. Charlie Kirk was a great free speech advocate. Now in his name, the Trump administration is attacking free speech. So be curious to see where they come out on that. But there are other also other issues that are kind of. roiling MAGA at this, at this, this point, obviously, Jeffrey Epstein, and, and and that's almost binary.

The MAGA position is release all the information about Jeffrey Epstein. The Trump position is do not talk of Jeffrey Epstein. saying see and put his his his fingers in his ears, cover his eyes. No Jeffrey Epstein. So that's a, that's a, that's. a that's going to be a difficult, difficult issue to navigate going forward. It has been difficult. It will get more and more difficult. And then but then there's other the, the vaccine issue is also.

is also difficult because because. there are many Trump supporters. but traditional Republicans that are going, hey, wait, wait a minute. We want, we want vaccinations are, are, are as a seminal accomplishment of, of the modern world. What are you doing here? Can you really subscribe to RFK.

Jr and a lot of a lot of traditional Republicans. But Meg, but but Trump supporters also saying, come on, this RFK Jr, this is a this is a this is serious, seriously nutty stuff to let this guy, run the the, the, the, the health establishment in the United States of America. So, so this is the, the MAGA,

the MAGA seizures. I think are likely to get bigger and bigger. Okay, so we have a question from someone, whose name, rather splendidly is Toblerone CSCs. I actually happen to love Toblerone. They're a little bit like eating a Rubik's cube. because they've got that strange triangular shape. when you put them in your mouth. and you have to sort of maneuver your tongue around it anyway, especially if you have one of the giant ones. Oh, those giant ones are incredible. You have to eat them in several bites, but the even the normal size.

is a sort of puzzle to eat it very Swiss if I if I may say, anyway, Toblerone is saying please. address the Epstein emails that Bloomberg uncovered. Thank you. You know, I don't know where they are from. I don't know how they got them. I would like to know if anyone has ideas. Please. Yeah. Please let us know. And these are the Epstein emails with Epstein and Peter Mandelson, his, former best pal who lost his job last week as the ambassador, British.

ambassador to the US over his friendship with Peter, with, Jeffrey Epstein. Right. While his other former best pal is being, wined and dined by the by the, I think, Charles. Someone else asking, Daphne. Amorous. Oh. Daphne. Mason. Daphne. Mason 7423 is asking why hasn't. Stephen Miller been replaced like so many others? What is the significance of Stephen Miller's wife?

Is she still working for Elon Musk, or has she left Elon Musk? I think she's a podcaster now. Essentially, she has a podcast and she's been going through the, royal family, as it were, of the Republicans. So she did JD Vance. She's just, Pam Bondi. I'm sure she'll do the president at some point. But as is Stephen Miller is a is, has been and remains and continues to be ascendant in the white House.

He may be the most significant policy person. in the white House. Which is which is curious because Trump has always regarded him. as, peculiar. Peculiar. Yeah. You know, you know, openly referring to him as strange. or do you think he's strange? I think he's a little strange. Do you think he's strange that that would be a verbatim Trump conversation?

But he has that. He has, persevered. I mean, and and I think his charm, so to speak, is that he is. he's, you know, he's channels MAGA. He's, he's a manga guy. And and I think Trump understands. that that is a weakness of his. that that Trump's own inclinations.

probably don't. align all that well with the MAGA inclinations. Well, we know that he doesn't want to release the Epstein files, and we know that he does want vaccinations. We should come back and do a proper episode just on Stephen Miller. He's such an interesting character. Also, just let me add another, another, another. The the immigration issues. He start he, he, you know, because because the immigration issues. are starting to show up in the economy and the bad numbers. He's reversing himself there, which is another one of those.

manga litmus positions. Third rail. Don't go there. Well, we should come back and do a full episode on, Stephen Miller. And then a final, final question. from Pheasant Films. What happens when Trump defies the two court orders. that tariffs are illegal and that troops in the cities are illegal? Does it go up to the Supreme Court?

Can you guys please pursue this? Well, I think it's a question. What if he defies the Supreme Court order? And, you know, the thing with tariffs is that there are probably workarounds there. You know, the Congress will, will authorize the tariffs. I think that they can probably achieve that. And that's probably what they would do. In terms of, of troops in the streets. And again, the problem with these, with, with both of these, these.

these issues is that there are workarounds here. and there are within the law itself, there is this idea. of, of an emergency exception. which Trump has has. audaciously, notoriously taken advantage of. and then sort of declared himself the final arbiter of what's an emergency?

Now, what happens if the Supreme Court says. that's ridiculous, as they should say, but I and I don't know. But I think the greater the greater fear is that they won't, that the Supreme Court is, is, I mean, they're, they're. they know what their job is and their job is to back the president. Apparently, Michael, four people were arrested yesterday for their remarkable,

projection of the Jeffrey Epstein film, which we've already mentioned. You're in protection if you. But you and Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein. and Donald Trump projection of me. You you linked forever. Well, you happily not in the middle of that triumvirate, but you very much on the outside, trying to analyze it for us. But the four people were arrested and charged with something called.

malicious communications, which, news editor. pointed out sounded positively Orwellian. What did what do you say that sounds. Well, it sounds British to. it does sound British. I mean, I've always had an, the the Brits and free speech. has, has always seemed to me a kind of squeamish relationship. And if, if you've ever had a had had, been involved in a libel.

reading in the UK, I've published many books in the UK. and that means they always have to be separately vetted by a UK lawyer. It's well, there's no First Amendment as no First Amendment say. Okay, you say at least in the past you have said, you have said to. I have certainly said to myself, thank God for the United States of America. Well, thank God for the First Amendment, which is rapidly being nibbled. at the edges. Yes. But.

but so anyway, I, I always think that there's this weird, weird, weird kind of thing in the, in the UK that they don't really want there to be free speech. But if you're going to be arrested for anything, how wonderful to be arrested. for putting up that remarkable video on the wall of Windsor Castle. Not something anybody anticipated. And it's made an incredible impact. And as you say, it's followed the president on his trip, just as he was. hoping to escape the Epstein of it all Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein.

Michael, let's get together again. next Tuesday and I hope you will be back in the U.S, back in the US, back in New York, back in the. the inside Trump's Heads studio. Excellent news. All right Michael go. Well have fun in England. I'm just wondering if there's anything. I want you to bring back for me, but I don't think there is. You can get pretty much everything on Amazon there. Jeff Bezos wasn't at the white tie dinner.

I bet Lauren Sanchez was sad about that because she would have loved that. And also, she would have loved picking out an outfit. or having Dolce and Gabbana so her into an outfit. We've we've missed something there. I wonder if they were traveling. We've we missed discussing Melania's, royal wardrobe. Also. We did off the shoulder a yellow off the shoulder number. I did think Princess Kate looked, fantastic and regal and modern all in one.

And I'm very curious what it must have been like for them. hanging out with Donald Trump and to be told by Donald Trump, you're beautiful. You're so beautiful. She and she was Melania was was wearing a kind of pinkish. large belt at one point, causing my wife. to, to jump up and sit and say, oh my God, her midriff is bare. I thought that too. I bet that belt on that dress both sold out there.

I actually always think Melania looks elegant. She doesn't look like she wants to be there, but she does look elegant. All right, Michael Wolff, travel back safely. See you on Tuesday. See you soon. Well, let's hope Michael gets back safely. Thank you for joining us. If you have been, don't forget to join the Daily Beast community on YouTube. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. and share the podcast with a friend.

It's this goodness knows. there's enough in it to sit down and argue with family members or colleagues. with whom you don't agree, or with whom you do agree to the Daily Beast community. Three new members Karen White, Heidi Riley, and Connie Rutherford. Thank you for your support. We are independent media and with Michael, what we try and do is go inside Donald. Trump's head to figure out what on earth he is thinking about at any one time. And who knows. It's a mystery in there, but we're seeking to unravel it.

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