Melania Is Unleashing Revenge Dogs on Me: Wolff | Inside Trump's Head

My lawyers were in court yesterday. Melania Trump's lawyers, they have moved under something called section 11. Essentially, they are moving to sanction my lawyers for doing. nothing more than bringing the lawsuit against Melania Trump. So this is preposterous on its face, and it is just one of those things. that comes with all of Trump style, not just style. Trump's own litigation, which is.

you do everything, no matter how. sordid and not respectable. and and bound to be thrown out of court. You do this stuff to cost your opponents more money. and to cause delay. Michael, how are you dealing with the heat? I am in the Hamptons and the weather is perfect.

Actually. Breeze. An incredible breeze. Underlying temperature yet to break. 80 today. Sweet. Small point, but you don't look very tanned. Well, tanning is not good for you. Joanna. I know, but normally in the summer, people get a different shade. They. You're by the beach. That's called unhealthy. Do you ever actually go to the beach?

I don't think you do. Oh, I go to the beach. Not only do I go to the beach, I go to the beach every day. Joanna, really? I'm sure you don't. Of course I don't go to the beach. I'm in the city working. And I swim in the ocean in the not. Not that cold, but it is. It doesn't really get to peak moment. until until the third week of July. Oh, my. Which is coming. Even though the sea temperatures at this point, this is.

I mean, when I met you, I remember we had an argument with the. with the author, the thriller author Philip Kerr, over. what was the most beautiful place in the world to live. And you insisted it was the Upper East Side, and you and Philip was like, no, it's Venice. And you were like, it's the Upper West Side. It's whatever the post code there is. You know, the thing about these having these conversations in which you are. were participant in is that you remember them.

It's not that just you remember them wrong. You get them wrong. None of that is what happened. It's totally what happened. And in fact, it was the other thing because I was the one arguing. that Venice was the most perfect place. And Philip, who this is Philip Kerr, is a is a writer who we both knew. very well and, and who died several years ago. So we can say and we can credit anything to Philip because he's no longer here. But.

he was the one who was. He was. I'm trying to think, actually, where was Philip's ideal place? It was in the south of France. So this is so every detail about that conversation you have. Okay. I just want to say that you were the most urban Manhattan man, and you vociferously argued that. the zip code one zero 0 to 1 was the most beautiful place to live.

And now I just find it incredible that you're swimming in the ocean every day. Something's happened. Something's happened. I'm not sure. How to reach. Because as I say, it is. You have a version of my life which is entirely. Oh, it is not entirely inaccurate, but it is, in most of its particulars, often inaccurate. Okay, but that's not inaccurate.

Anyway, we are not at the state fair, but then neither is. anybody else, so that's okay. And you've been talking to your lawyers, I hear. Yeah. Yeah, I've been talking to my lawyers and curiously. to the other side's lawyers, although that was inadvertent. So at any rate, to bring you up to date on on Michael. Michael Wolff versus Melania Trump as it is formally known. Wow.

Michael Wolff versus Melania Trump. And we will come on to what Melania earned last year. And we should at least spend some time during today's podcast. breaking out the different earnings. 208,000 for Trump Bible. Extraordinary earnings. Yeah. But let's go back to your lawyer. So we're going to I want to talk to you about the grift. I want to talk to you about Scotus and the impacts of their decisions, and the fact that Trump can basically fire anybody he wants.

Now, apart from Scotus, oddly, it's it's. their elevating their own power as well as elevating his power. But let's start then with your. with Michael Wolff versus Melania Trump. My lawyers were in court. yesterday and we were in court to answer. the the other side. Melania Trump's lawyers have done something. They have they have moved under something called section.

11 to sanction my lawyers. Now essentially, essentially, they are moving to sanction my lawyers. for doing nothing more than bringing the lawsuit against Melania Trump. So this is preposterous on its face, and it is just one of those things, another and another kind of kind of. thing that comes with all of Trump. Trump style Trump, not just style.

Trump's own litigation, which is you do everything, no matter how. steamy, sorted and not respectable. and and bound to be thrown out of court. You do this stuff to cost your opponents. more money and to cause delay. Hold on a minute. Can I just ask, what does sanctioning your lawyers mean? Is it like. In other words, professional?

You're. Yeah, it's a procedure. You're you're you're asking the court to say. to make an evaluation that you have done something. a frivolous or capricious or. there's a whole kind of, kind of litany of, of these, of, of these kind of descriptive words that you've done something. that really should not have been done, and you are really abusing the court. And in that in and if the court finds you've abusing the court,

you know, they can, they can, they can find you, they can hold you in contempt, they can do a variety of things. But this very, very, very rarely happens, of course, because. because this is what you're in a, you're in a proceedings in which everybody is doing something. that the other side, side does not want them to do. So the, the idea of this, that you have abused the court because you are.

you are suing someone is by its nature what the whole system is about. So anyway, it is therefore just the thing. that you do to cause the other side. Inconvenience and cost and delay. Always delay. Always delay. And in fact, the judge in this case said. addressed everything to the other side and said and said basically, hey,

you know, I can't stop you from continuing this action, but in all likelihood I'm going to rule against it. And what you are doing is so. So ridiculous effectively that that the other side. could sue you for ask for sanctions against you for doing this. So essentially, it was the reprimand to. Melania Trump's lawyers.

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Message and data rates may apply. Okay. And who are her lawyers? Michael. Well. I mean they're okay. Let's let's step back because this is this is the really interesting point. On January 26th of this year, I got a, a text from a. from the president's personal lawyer, a man by the name of Boris Epstein.

And the text said, hey, team, what's our timing on the section 11 filing? So. And. I'm assuming that you. Weren't. Part of the team. I was not part of the team. And now I know I am in Boris. Epstein's address book because he's in, you know, a frequent off the record chatterer.

And and to me, along with, I assume, many other people. and as can happen, he was thinking about me. and writing a text about me, but it wasn't supposed to go to me. But in that way that things happen. It did go to me. So we were at that point alerted that they were doing that. They were going through a section 11 filing.

Okay, you know, typical Trump stuff. But the more important thing in the larger thing is that it. meant that this lawsuit, my Melania Trump lawsuit, is, was being coordinated at the highest levels of Trump law. because Boris and Boris Epstein is, I mean, is a fascinating figure, elemental to understanding the Trump White House. And I think he was on the inaugural flight of Grift Force One yesterday.

He was always trying to get on on these flights, always wanting to be seen. I mean, this is a big thing. It's a big real estate play here. Who can be on the Air Force One or on Trump Force One. during the campaign, which proves proximity to the president and which. which a which proves that that you were. you have the approval of Donald Trump because he's invited you onto his plane.

Well, and also. You get you get very specific time with him if you're on the plane with him. Right, because you're all sort of captive. So given that Donald Trump often believes. the last person he's spoken to, I imagine that's quite a. Useful place to be. I think it's more symbolic because he doesn't have to pay. I mean, these these planes are extremely large, as you know, and. and it's never clear who's going to get time. So it's more of a perceptual thing you are seeing on the plane.

Therefore that's the goal. Really. To be seen on, on the plane. And and then it's an but it also serves as an internal thing. And Boris. is interesting aspect of this is Boris. Epstein is widely and deeply hated. within the closest Trump circle. Oh come how why is that? So he is he now at this point.

the sort of the president's personal lawyer Boris actually. And he is more than the president's personal lawyer. He is he is the. he is the lawyer that essentially essentially stands. between Trump and all other lawyers within the. within the white House and executive branch circle. So and and to be clear about about this and to be clear about the level. that he's working at, he is the person who introduced.

Todd Blanch, who is now the attacking acting. attorney general and has been nominated to become the attorney general. That is, he was introduced. into the Trump circle by Boris Epstein. And Todd Blanche was Boris's lawyer before he became became Trump's lawyer. So they those those two have a. have an integral and profound partnership in essence.

And so nothing happens within the Trump legal world. The in terms of, in terms of what Trump is. is, is thinking in terms of. how Trump's interests are being reflected. in court, in lawsuits, in. in any of the of. the of the kinds of procedural procedural I'm trying to look for the words to.

to indicate how important Boris is. And I would say he he runs, he runs the legal show. He runs the legal strategy. But more importantly, in understanding this, Boris. doesn't work in the white House. Boris is works outside of the white House. directly for Donald Trump in a personal capacity. So this is a kind of extraordinary that this person who doesn't work.

for the people, which is to say us in, in the white House, is running the entire, The Justice Department in the United States of America. Wow. So and where is he based? Is he based in D.C.? Is he based Amara Lago? Where is he actually sort of. He's in DC. But he's can't he can't be. I mean, I hope we can flash up a picture of him. He's he's quite young to be in this role to.

Right. He's in his mid 40s I think he's 43. Four. He's 43 a Russian émigré. Only practiced law for a couple of years, then became a kind of a, you know, GOP political operative, but really came into his own. when he hooked up with Donald Trump. and in he became a Trump surrogate, one of the first Trump surrogates in 2015,

when few people were willing to do this, go on television and say. Donald Trump was a was a great guy and a plausible candidate. He but even then disliked. by the the staff, disliked by the staff. because he was always trying to go around them to Trump. Yeah. I was going to say, how does. Boris Epstein get on with or Epstein get on with Susie Wiles?

Hey, she hates them. Has always been at odds with with with him. Matter of fact, my. my book about the. campaign, All or Nothing, opens with a. with a scene on a zoom call of Boris comes on the zoom zoom call. He thinks his screen is is. he thinks his camera is not on, but the camera is on and he comes on. He's a big hairy chested guy and he's he's.

he comes on without a shirt and. and Susie Wiles has a flip out over this. So he's not who Trump was referring to. And he said, I may not have the best lawyers, but I've got the hottest lawyers. He was. Into Boris Epstein. That no, absolutely not. And Boris, he is a there's a funny thing about because, I mean, Boris is. and he's also hated because because he's regarded as a, as a sycophant, as a suck.

up, as willing to say anything Donald Trump wants to hear. Therefore, catering to Donald Trump's worst instincts. And this is even something that that Trump makes fun of him for. So during the during the campaign, in one of Trump's set up things in, Trump. always repeats these things constantly gets a little joke, repeats it. But one of his jokes whenever Boris would call in, Boris would.

call, you know, speak to Trump at least ten times a day, sometimes 20 times in. A day. 20 times in a day. Yes. And and he would call and then also hear this was another. something that his name was always spelled wrong on Trump's phone. But anyway, he would call Trump, would hold up the phone to whoever he was with, and. and then he would say, he would say, oh, it's my it's my Boris on the phone calling to tell me.

I've been indicted again in what good news that is. So Trump had some self-awareness. of the fact that Boris was just a suck up. But that doesn't really matter to Trump. That is actually becomes finally a recommendation. and Trump and and and Boris. has progressively moved forward. more and more into that central position. He is the president's guy. Okay.

So so what I'm hearing from this is that it. actually diversion is Boris Epstein the new Roy Cohn. Absolutely totally okay okay. So Roy Cohn. That's I mean that's a good understanding of this. Trump has always looked toward toward a lawyer who will do anything. who will facilitate anything. Who will who. The thing about lawyers.

is that they basically they're. they're their currency is their own respectability. So whatever client they have, they're always protecting themselves. That's what they they do. Their probity, let's say, is. what is ultimately being traded for other among other clients. So they can't they can't risk that to too much.

They can't compromise that. Or they seek not to compromise that. Their respectability exists independently of their clients, the disreputable clients that they might have in. And Trump's lawyers function. really, really in exactly the opposite fashion. They are willing to do this. That's what that's that's the cost of working for Donald Trump. You must work entirely for him.

You do what he wants to do, even if that compromises your reputation, right? Or even if you end up in jail like Michael Cohen. Yeah. No. And it's it's a I mean, it is that that kind of that kind of thing. That's, that's the, the legal principle. is that the system can be, can be bent to anyone's advantage. if they are willing to, to, to suffer that kind of.

a problem of the community. Of the. Other community of lawyers. Yes. The system is malleable. Right. And and obviously all lawyers know that. But this is in the Trump world that's pushed to an extreme. And in order to push it to an extreme, you have to have lawyers. And there are not too many who are willing to push it to an extreme. And that is that's the Roy Cohn position. And now it is certainly the Boris Epstein position.

So from what you're saying Boris. Epstein is now in charge of the Trump. legal strategy in Michael Wolff versus Melania Trump. I think he's in charge of the legal strategy in any of the legal proceedings. that Donald Trump has a particular interest in. So that runs that, that that runs the gamut of, of of really Trump interest.

Boris is so you can say safely, Boris is everywhere. Boris is everywhere. And he was certainly on Griff Force One on its inaugural trip yesterday. They released photos and there was Margot Martin and there was. Steven Chung who were always hearing from. Yeah. And let me there's another some, some interesting. other background about Boris that I think, I think sheds some light on Trump. That first thing, Boris was one of the first people after the.

the 2020 election when very few people were were around, Trump were willing. to pick up this mantle of of, you know, the the election was stolen. Boris on his own. because he wasn't working in the white House at this at the. at this this point on his own flew. into Arizona to begin to coordinate the. the the challenge to the election.

Let's stop the steal. Yes. And and Boris was ultimately indicted for that. That after Trump became the president again. that indicted, indicted indictment was thrown out. But Boris was there was a criminal indictment for Boris. about what he did vis a vis electoral manipulation in Arizona. There was another another thing, this, this, this is. this really goes to show. how Trump's relationship to the people who are abjectly loyal to him.

So in the middle of the campaign, video surfaces because Boris. had been arrested in Arizona in a. in a bar called wait for the bottled blond. The bottled blond. So this this video goes goes out. It's obviously, you know, getting wide pickup. And you would think that this would have finished off his,

his, his career as a significant aide to someone running for the presidency. Nope. So his boss grabs women by the proceed. Yeah. Trump just brushed it off. Right? Of course he did. Because in fact, their fellow fellow abusers, or at least fellow alleged abuses. if the case got dropped against Boris. But as we saw from the Supreme Court decision this week,

Trump is a sexual abuse or in the as the court. threw out his efforts to have them overrule. the verdict in the Aegean Carol case, the $5 million case. So your lawyers are. Do they immediately. Appeal this, sanctioning this section 11. What's the what's their response? How long does it take? So this was just the conference on this. So the judges they they've the other side file.

Notice that they are going to file on this on this section 11. So they go the judge calls all parties into court in the judge. basically said don't do this. This is not a smart thing to do. Can't stop you from doing it, but it's not a smart thing to do. Now this goes back to the other thing. that lawyers, I'm sure they will do it anyway because it doesn't. They they're they're own reputational damage. Their own standing in the court doesn't matter. You do what is you do what you have to do for Donald Trump create.

and in this instance cost me more money or cost my lawyers. my side of this more money and and you cause delay. So that's for them is a is a win. And it doesn't matter if they're going to lose this. And it doesn't matter. if the judge is going to think lesser of them for doing this. Okay. So for now they are using section.

11 to sanction your lawyers as a delaying technique. Right. And then meanwhile, just in the broader sense of this, of this lawsuit, this judge who's a. who's a Trump judge. in a complicated ruling in which she decided not to rule. on the merits of the case, but accepted the fact that that the. the Trump argument that Melania Trump lives in Florida, at any rate, she has dismissed the case so that now we are dismissed.

the case in federal court and that is now. being appealed, in which. in which actually, she acknowledged yesterday. that we had gone to the Second Circuit and it would probably not look so good. for the second circuit if they if the Trump if Melania. Trump's lawyers and the president's lawyers. continued this section 11 baloney.

Okay. So it's a delaying tactic. And do you know when you hear back from it? I mean, I remember that you got the decision on the judge. essentially saying, we're not going to hear this in federal court the day before. Memorial Day weekend, clearly trying to bury the story. What they didn't realize was we had of inside Trump's head. coming up the very next day, so we could immediately talk about it. But do you have any sense of timing here, or is this another endless.

It could be any time. That they. Come. Back to us. I mean, that's one of the I mean, this kind of fascinating. exposure to this process. The courts themselves are. For all kinds of reasons, because they're overburdened. and because and because, because justice is slow. Take forever. But then add to that the fact that this is a fundamental tactic. in all Trump in Trump laws, Trump litigation.

It's fascinating. So we had some insight. into Trump's earnings this week is $2.2 billion, much of which was made from crypto, something that in 2019 he'd said. was nonsense and really didn't make any sense whatsoever. But we also had some insight into Melania's finances, too. And she had managed to monetize being First lady. to the tune of 17 million.

That's which is extraordinary. I mean, it's extraordinary beyond extraordinary that Trump gets. makes $2 billion on less. than 18 months in the in the white House. But then the first lady, who literally, not only literally does nothing. You don't even show up, makes $17 million. To be fair, she showed up at the Easter egg roll. I saw her at the Easter egg roll.

She turned up to deliver her. Very strange. I didn't know Jeffrey Epstein speech that through everybody into a tizzy. Very, very strange. So she turns out she's turned up at least twice this year. So $17 million for for a handful of appearances. And what is the 17 million from was the payment for the Amazon film Melania. The documentary was that counted the previous year.

I'm sure that that spread out over a over a bunch of years. She'll probably make 17, probably $17 million every year. This is you know, but the the the interesting thing to focus on here. is that, you know, of all the thing there, you know, 40 million from Amazon. this and that, that's, that's that's money. Yet in the ether. What we do know is that she literally took in the space.

of 12 months, $17 million into her pocket. And, and. actually, I think some of that is from a, from a meme coin. She has her own crypto action. If I were Melania Trump and I had 17 million. from one year, I would demand a divorce. Well, I guess once you have 17 million, then you look at your next. 17 million and your next 17 and your next 17. I know it's never enough, I suppose, isn't it?

I mean, it's never enough. And then, since the president has made 2 billion, I suppose you look at look at the prospects. for getting your own, at least half of that. You know, there's the thing I do want to there was a moment during. the campaign, the 2024 campaign. when Trump was. What he was annoyed. with everybody for making for for taking him to fundraisers.

I just was a particular tense moment in the campaign, and there were many. tense moments, and he was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to. I don't want to go to fundraisers. I don't have to go to fundraisers because and I quote, the crypto guys will give me everything I need. What did that mean? Meaning that as long as he relaxed. regulation on crypto, he would be fine. They would just finance him.

Yeah, I think that that's that's absolutely. what what they had aligned their interests at that point. And and the crypto guys had unlimited money and, and could use the presidency. to make even vastly, vastly. more money, of which Donald Trump is, is, is sharing. And it's not only that they're financing his campaign. They have they have cut.

Donald Trump into the crypto profits. Well, and also his licensing deals have have gone up. So during the time he was at Mar-A-Lago, they were sort of, you know, sort of 8 million, 9 million in terms of international. licensing deals rapidly rose in 25. And I think the figure I saw was 48 million from the UAE. for licensing deals to put his name on, you know,

Trump casinos, Trump hotels, whatever else he's doing. I was amused to see that. the actual Trump things that he's producing. notwithstanding the meme coins and the crypto. But his Trump Bibles had only raised 208,000 for the Trump family coffers. And his gold sneakers and his fragrance, Trump fragrance. What can that smell like?

What is the ingredients in the Trump fragrance? Had only raised 67,000. So I think post-presidency he shouldn't think of becoming a perfumer. I think he should stick to the crypto grift. and the licensing of his name and perhaps, you know, perhaps if if anchor will be able. to do a chain of Albanian. restaurants and hotels once she's got her foothold on her island. I mean. Maybe as fascinating as the level of money.

he is taking in is the fact that. that this has not appeared. to inspired a universal revulsion. that, you know, I mean, in any other presidency this would have. Well, it just would have not it couldn't have happened. I mean, can you. Imagine, can. You. Imagine if Joe Biden had come up with some rule on.

crypto, brought out a Biden coin and made $2.2 billion? Look at the fuss that was made over hunting. Maybe that's not true, though. Maybe. Maybe you would look at the other way that that, that that if Joe Biden had done. this, had done this in such an egregious way, in such a blatant way, in such a shameless way, in such a proud. Way. Maybe people would have said, oh my God, you know, Joe is really.

Good, Joe. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, because I can't understand. any other reason why this has not redound to Trump's imprisonment. It is. And does anyone seem to care? You know, I mean, yeah, I think people people care, but in general, not very much. This is not. this is not going to the top of the issues that people have against Donald Trump. Well. I wonder, though, I wonder if that's true.

I mean, it's difficult to know. First of all, Republicans are much better at negative messaging. against the Dems than the Dems are against Trump. I mean, if I were the Dems, I would have had a camp, a national campaign by now attacking Donald Trump. on this extraordinary level of money that he's made in the last 18 months. I mean, not even over a period. Not even 18 months.

Right? Okay, so not even 18 months, nearly 18 months. But they should have had a message that came out. from every Democratic mouth across the country. And instead, I guess maybe this is what's behind the Democratic Socialists. sudden rise in Colorado. I mean, you saw Michael Bennet just getting pushed to the side by Phil Weiser. You saw the incumbent in Colorado getting kicked out by.

the Democratic socialist new candidate, who was born the same year. as the as the incumbent actually went into Congress. So there's clearly change going on, but the messaging around it just seems missing. Well. I mean, the messaging partly is that I mean, that's that's that's. I mean, the messaging there is internecine within the Democratic Party. and it is either you're too old or. you haven't done enough to stand up to Donald Trump,

which is clearly they haven't, but they haven't because. because Donald Trump is is because nobody quite knows. how to stand up to Donald Trump, because the fact that Donald Trump. has made $2 billion in, in a very short time in the white House, does not seem. to have the effect that everyone would assume it should have. I mean. Why hasn't every Democratic governor been out there with talking points about this?

This is a moment where the Democratic Party could entirely. unite around this message of corruption and connecting it to taxpayer dollars, connecting it to this is not what he's supposed to be in the presidency for. I think probably the answer is because they don't think it has. all it has, the traction that we would. ordinarily think that it should have, that there is something that this is built into,

into the Donald Trump personality. It's Donald Trump. Of course, he's going to make money on this. He's a businessman. He's. you know, that the fact. that Donald Trump is not only shameless, but proud of this appears to have this other. this confounding effect. And it's not just in terms of his of his grift in corruption,

obviously, it's in terms of almost anything else, anything else he does that one would have thought would. cost, would, would, would have an extreme political cost. The women, the. The, the ballroom, the Kennedy Center, all of this kind of thing that you would say.

this should cost him and it may and maybe it will cost him. And that's that's what we're looking toward the midterms to see. But but so far, given the fact that he's been. elected to the presidency twice, it's a it's a. I mean, there is a there this is a complicated thing. that American politics has not been able to digest and process. Okay. Well, in our last conversations about the midterms, I was slightly sloppy.

in describing the California. vote counting as sloppy. And we heard from someone who's worked in the elections. in California for 30 years who was irritated by that comment. And I don't blame her, really. What I was trying to point out was, I thought it was odd that California. seems to take so long to bring back a verdict on who's one, because so many people in California. use Mail-In voting, and it seems to take forever to count.

But I didn't mean to say the process was sloppy. She assured me that the process is, in fact, meticulous. Even Steve Hilton, the Republican gubernatorial candidate. who's now crept in as number two, has said, there's no indication. of election fraud whatsoever in in California. But I wanted to point out that I shouldn't have used the word sloppy. because I don't think it probably is sloppy. No, but the word you should have used was inefficient. And and it certainly is inefficient.

It certainly is. I mean, I think the Californians acknowledge this and and I think they've. just they've just authorized a new expenditure to deal with this. I mean, this is a procedural process that. if not if not if not sloppy, certainly not something that anybody has has. certainly not urgent. And and I think that's a problem. I mean it has it it creates it.

creates doubt where there should not be doubt. Right. And and that's a, that's a bureaucratic responsibility. that clearly nobody has taken as their own. Maybe there's no way around it. I mean, we saw the Supreme Court at least uphold the fact that in Mississippi, you know, votes can be counted if they've been postmarked. on the day of the election, even if they arrive a bit late. Well, yeah, but there is a way around that.

You get more people, better systems. You know, California is a standout in among 50 states in taking its sweet time. Well. And also it does have Silicon Valley. And you would think if you can do online banking, why can't you vote online? There must be some way of doing this, surely. Well. But that's a different subject now, you know. Right. But the. World is sped up. We now have technology since people started voting. Surely they must be able to do it. Well, yeah.

But okay. Voting online this is, is is somewhat we don't vote online. and good for for for good or not so good reasons. But right now we vote. The way we vote in California takes much longer than anyone else. Right. And all I'm saying is if we voted online, it would be instant. The results would be very easy to tally. We do everything else online. I don't even know. But that's not that is not related to California. In California is a major issue and California has got to solve its.

problems, should solve this problem, has got to solve this problem, and has nothing to do with voting online. This is this is how people vote right now. This is the. this is the this is how how it works. And you got to you got to perform within that. And and they don't. So whether you want to call it sloppy or inefficient, it's. you could call it certainly broken.

okay. All right. Well I don't think we was. Well I certainly wasn't trying to suggest it was however fraudulent, which is what I was anxious that I'd inadvertently suggested. So Scotus, a lot of comments on the fact that no one can believe. Scotus takes three months off for such for a holiday. I mean, it's crazy. Why did they get three months vacation? Who else gets three months vacation? They've got a job for life.

They're allowed to do a side hustle and write books and pull in. $1 million here for an advance or, you know, do something else. They're allowed to take RVs in the case of Clarence Thomas. So why is it that they get to have a three month vacation anyway? I'm all for longer vacations for more people. And in the case of the Supreme Court, it means three months without. without Trump favoring decisions.

So I think we come out ahead on this. Okay. Well, that's that's a good riposte. I, I actually don't agree. I think that they could get a month off. I think a month will be absolutely fine. I don't see why they can't do. what the French do and just refuse to return calls in August. And you and you take a lot of vacations. I don't I never go to. I'm never I'm always working. Michael Wolff I was not on vacation. I was looking after my mom. And then I was on a work trip to France. I had three days at the end with my older son, which was heaven. Oh.

A work trip in, in, in the south of France and can just point this out. Rosé. Remember that conversation? Of course. Rosé. All day. A lot of people were very upset that you attacked. rosé, and one person wrote in to say that the Queen liked rosé. The Queen likes rosé, even if it is a mid drink the queen likes for is. A. Are the queen. There's notable tastemakers, but. just a can. The queen. Catching a stray there.

You went to an event that I have been to many times and a pure boondoggle. Just to point this out in defense of the Supreme Court, nothing gets done. Everybody says something gets done. I've never seen any business get done in camp. Actually, I did some business in cancer. There you go. Okay. Let's see. You know, people think they do business. They have a conversation, they go to a meeting. Well, actually, what you do is you meet people for breakfast, you meet people for lunch, you meet people for coffee.

I know. That, and that gets you absolutely nothing. Okay, well. We'll see. Breakfast except breakfast. Okay. Well, it's a good way to catch up with people, find out what's going on. In fact, I did do some business, so there you go. Michael Wolff. All right, let's talk about the Scotus decisions. We've had this discussion before that I in. in my view, the majority of the justices. on the Supreme Court are threading the needle. It's not. It is all about what they have to give Donald Trump.

and what they can hold back from him and all. about how to measure. It's all about power. Essentially. It's all about politics. So the Supreme Court, which is supposed to be above politics, which is supposed to be a a. all about the application of the law, a, you know, a nation of laws. and not men has flipped that on its head.

It's all about Donald Trump. Everything that goes through their head is about Donald Trump, how Donald Trump. is going to react, how they need to react to Donald Trump, how how they function within the political system. And of course, he actually. appeared at the Supreme Court, which was a first during the birthright. citizenship arguments that didn't seem to have had an effect.

Or maybe it did because it was A63 decision against him, maybe the three that were in favor. or dissented from the decision were intimidated by him. We were wrong about our characterization of that. The the other day, I mean, when we were talking about the decision had just just that second. Yeah. We literally got a new sash as we were talking about it. But it's a significantly more equivocal decision then than we had portrayed that.

So in a, a, a decision which should have been, you would have said, okay, well, this is you know, this is an obvious one, this is 9 to 0. or, or. at least seven and two because you have two. You've got Alito and Clarence Thomas that are always going to. Vote for Trump. Who are who are, you know, gone in some strange world. But it wasn't, you know, and it was.

it was much closer to. You know, it's. they were saying, well, this is open to debate. And, you know, and the. I you know, I think the danger now is that it is that they have opened it to debate. and that this will go on in a row v. Wade sense and become a political issue. So, so and again so I think that was the gift to Donald Trump.

Okay. You know we don't we we really can't. we really can't rule out birthright citizenship. Hello. But you know it's something Donald Trump wants. How can we go. Is there a is there a kind of a middle ground here. And again, it's always that kind of thing in everything they do is. what do we have to give to Caesar? Well. To your point about whether or not that debate just keeps going on, it does seem.

as if the skirmishes with Iran. are going to keep going on now and then. Donald Trump was calling for Syria to get involved. The head of ISIS, now in charge of Syria, now president of Syria, he was like, well, what? The Syrians should. Be involved. No, that was. That was I think that that was extraordinary. I mean, you know, the Syrians I mean, essentially they were saying, well, the Syrians should go and they should go to go fight Hezbollah.

The Syrians. Who have who. Have had who have had now years and years of war. and who have basically said, oh my God, you know, we gotta, you know, we have to rebuild. We have a nation to rebuild here. We're not going to get involved in this. I mean, this is so, so and Donald Trump is in that way. he has of just just speaking just comes where does it come from? I mean, it comes from the fact that he has and and.

this is the this is the, the point. No idea what he's talking about. So much of what he says is not only uninformed, not thought out, in which he has gotten. no advice about, but it just comes off the top of his head. Where does that come from? It comes from nowhere, right? I mean, how does he just looks at a map and thought, well, Syria's near Iran, why don't they just get involved?

Let's get them involved. I mean, that sense of, well, as you say, just creating foreign policy. on the fly with no, with no understanding. No, but it's even more than that. And again, that, that thing that, that people can't get their heads around. It's like the $2 billion here is a man who has no fucking idea. what he's talking about for a good part of the time. And we kind of go, oh yeah, okay, okay.

Well, we. Don't do that. Well, we're trying to point it out. There are lots of people pointing it. Out. That he has no idea what he's talking about. Half the time. More than half the time. Okay. And where's my headline in the New York Times? Donald Trump has no idea what he's talking about. You see, we are forced into a situation because we lack the language. We lack the affect to say. here, the president of the United States is.

We, as I say, we lack the language. President of the United States is crazy. The president of the United States is the stupidest man, obviously, to ever, ever occupy this office. The president of the United States has no grasp of the issues. that he's charged with. making decisions about. And. Yet he's managed to make $2.2 billion in his first year.

Well, we'll be back on Saturday. with we've actually got an election episode on Saturday, haven't we? We've we've not exactly predicted the midterms, but yeah, we've been talking about the midterms, which is essential for July the 4th. Speaking of the New York Times, the New York Times had two competing. articles, one in which it says control of the Senate was up for grabs. The other one by.

Nate. What's his name? What's that guy's name? Nate. Silver. Yates. Silver a pulse there. They're the times pollster who is who is invariably wrong. and then invariably authoritative. about why he was right, even if he was wrong. This is why he was right. But anyway, his. he has his piece today was, I think today or yesterday was that.

that the Democrats. was highly unlikely that the Democrats would take the Senate. Well. Michigan is an interesting one. Have you been following that? AOC came out and endorsed one of the candidates. The primary is actually August the 4th, and I have 1 or 2 friends. in Michigan who called. Just saying. this will be an absolute disaster if they go for a progressive in Michigan. This is a state that Donald Trump won.

and that if they go non. moderate in Michigan, they will lose lose lose. Well that's you know from one side I mean that's. that is the the discussion within the Democratic Party. And. And it is between. between the moderate faction and this new younger. Really energetic. Energetic significantly more left.

People who seem to be winning election after election. All right. Well. Let's talk about the midterms on Saturday. In the meantime, I know you have to. You've got an appointment with the beach. I've just got an appointment with the office. I thought. I thought you were coming out here. Don't I have to entertain you? I think you might have. To entertain me. I'm not coming out till tomorrow. I'm coming out for 36 hours. Michael. That's the only time off I allow myself.

I'm coming out 36 hours. And I'm looking forward to seeing you out. There on the hill on a helicopter. I'm sure. I'm. Actually not coming out on the helicopter. I'm coming out on the jitney. The helicopter was. Booked. I see. Well, the jitney is running at five hours to get out of here, to get out here. now I understand. Yeah. I heard that, but I'm coming on Friday lunchtime, so I'm thinking that the Jitney will actually be fine by that. I think the roads will be fine by then. Most people will be coming out tonight. Oh, okay.

Well, in a measure, we'll take the measure. We'll take measure here. All right. I'm looking forward to seeing you out there. I'm looking forward to a slightly. I'm looking forward to lesser temperatures and a sea breeze. And I'm really looking forward to a lot of rosé. I don't know what to say. You don't have to say anything. You just have to thank people. Our enduring thanks to John, Rachel,

Matt, Heather and Neil. And I think there's one more person I've forgotten. Doug. That's Doug. You just. Made that up. You just made that up. And it's not Matt, it's Max. You've just made dug up. But if there's anyone called dug out there. who wants to come and work on the podcast and you've got the right qualifications, let us know. If you can handle Michael's tech requirements, then good for you.

And don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast. Michael, we're 2000 off 700,000. And do you know, we haven't even been going a year inside. Trump's head has not been going a year yet. We're going to have to think of how we celebrate our annual anniversary, which is until the end of August, actually. So we've got some time to think about it. We can talk about it this week. We can talk about it this weekend. Okay. And how are we going to think about the midterms and where we go.

And we got various invites from people across. the country actually, which is very exciting. I'm still up for Mount Rushmore, though. A couple of people wrote in and said, absolutely not. It's really trashy, which I find hard to believe, but. It looked very you talking about. That presidents, the faces of presidents carved into. into a mountainside. You don't think that's going to be trashy? I think it's going to be inspiring and sort of or inspiring. And I'm going to make you run across the top,

like in that scene from this North. By northwest. Northwest. Yeah, great. Great movie. And they're running across those faces. I can see you doing that. Yeah. Also, a lot of, a. Lot of people appreciated the photo of you with her. I'm not even going to respond to that. I will. Well, I'll see you in the Hamptons and we'll see everybody back here. on Saturday for our next episode of Inside Trump's Head. Thank you. If you have been for joining us, big thanks to our production team, Ryan.

Murray, John Romero, Rachel Pasa, Heather Pesaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so. Many beast. Tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.