MAGA Civil War? Trump Can’t Find Iran on the Map! | The Daily Beast Podcast

How do I post this delicately? But I'll try. Trump has no idea of what he's doing. You could and I guarantee you. that Tucker Carlson or Steve Bannon or any of these people. believe that if you pointed to a globe. and you said, point to a middle East. Trump or have no idea what it is. I'm Joanna Coles.

I'm the chief. if content officer of the Daily Beast, and this is the Daily Beast podcast. I hope you're either listening or watching, possibly on YouTube. And we're about to talk to James Carville. Before we do, I want you to address. the hundreds, thousands of comments, actually, that you left us on YouTube. I now know that it's Senator Alex Padilla. I know that Brits always have struggles with, French. and Spanish words in particular, but I've got that right. And I'm sorry that I got it wrong first time round.

Secondly, many of you love the art deco background that I have. It's just the hotel I'm staying in. I wish I could say it was my boudoir as someone referred to it. It's not my boudoir. It's a hotel room. But there's so much stuff going on in the world right now. Who better to talk to than our favorite, elder statesman? The national treasure of democratic politics? None other than James Carville.

James. What's that, like a glass of red wine I just saw? I did, I'm having an I. Am I faking it? Where are. You? I'm in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. Oh, fabulous. Okay, James. So as, Israel and Iran appear to be battling it out. So MAGA seems to be battling it out. You've got Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon, Tulsi Gabbard on one side, you've got Donald Trump 11, Pete Hegseth on another.

What do you make of this? Is this the beginning of something serious within the movement? Right. Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you. And your question obviously deserves some serious consideration. So I'm I'm going to try to do this. I think this rift has always existed below the surface. I mean I'm don't Tucker Carlson for a long time. I've done TV with a I spent time in the green room with him. I've done speeches with him. I generally do not comment on Tucker, but this is a pretty consistently view.

that Tucker's had over a long period of time. I mean, Ted Cruz that the year that Tucker put up, I mean, Ted Cruz looked like a fool, but I in kind. Connell was. and I don't. I certainly don't. I think Tucker kind of passive. This instincts are there for a long time.

But I, I interviewed Val Nasser today and, she got to know what Iran is and exactly who you saw and what. This is this. this is a pretty advanced country with some pretty sophisticated people. And sophisticated engineers. And, and, you know, I guess I'm. neither a hawk, I don't I but I, you know, know your enemy. You better be sure you deal with what is is not a rock by a long shot. Well, and Ted Cruz fails to know what the population of Iran was.

He failed tonight. The tribal breakdown was. Went to him. Do you think this split, which may have been under the surface. and is now coming to the surface, can become difficult for Trump to manage? Well, you got to wait out over the Ukraine problem. of which the talker in in Bannon wing. I don't don't get into internal right wing politics. I tend to be much more pro-Russian than in.

in that there's a very anti the very mean among self-described conservatives. There's substantial number that support the Ukrainians. So these are two kind of seizures. that exist on the right. And they're both kind of foreign policy things. And I think they both signal a different approach. I mean we're kind of grew up with the Brant Scowcroft, Jim Baker, kind of a Reagan interventionist model.

of Republican policy that did this. It's the beginning side. There are something that is not likely to go away anytime soon. So, James, you've known Tucker Carlson a long time. Why is he pro Russia? Well, I've known him and I've really tried to make it, policy on my personal. I just don't comment.

But, yeah, I kind of miss to take truth. He was a good friend. And circumstance conspired where we. so socialized it, but surely more, you know, I think he. it's. I think this is something like a just like I say, this is pretty consistent. with green room conversations in 2002. I mean, but maybe you could remember crossfire, which was Paul Michels, Bob Novak and talk of. we were probably the most anti Iraq war show on television.

In fact, many people think that's why I got canceled because we just didn't. fight. the party line when given on a rocket. I don't know, but I do know actually, Paul and Bob. Novak and myself were against them again in Tokyo, as I recall, came up for it. So Biden, he was for it for like two and a half weeks. And he said it was the biggest mistake he ever made. Yeah. It's so.

Yeah. And, you know, look, isolationism and intervention have been part of, you know, the US political debate for a long, long time. I remember it was particularly, intense during the lead up. to the night in late 1930s and lead up to a war, too. I mean, it was a huge isolationist movement in this country. And to some extent it was in battle. Right? We have had disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

So it's not like if you say, well, these people are just off base that are understand the world. They would suggest to you that they understand it well. And the less we involve it, any better off we are. I'm just giving you that point of view. I'm not in for one minute. Suggestion that I agree with it, but it's a view. point of view that they really hold and they've been pretty consistent on it. Donald Trump seems uncertain yet as to what. he thinks should happen in the Middle East. What are you sensing from what he's saying so far?

Which is he won't say one way or the other. Do I. pose this delicately? But I'll try. Trump has no idea of what he's doing. But you could, and I guarantee you. that Tucker Carlson or Steve Bannon or any of these people. believe that if you pointed to a globe. and you said, point to a middle East. Trump or have no idea what it is, all right, so he doesn't.

he has never given an iota of thought to this. He knows not one piece of history about the region, about the adversaries, about who's it he is a. Test massively ignorant. And I don't know that any any body would really dispute that. I mean, some of the MAGA people would say, you know, his. master negotiator is closer to some kind of non-Jew,

but I don't think Trump b even knows where Middle East is. So it's. Yeah. So James, how how nervous should we be about this? I mean, this is a very serious situation that I'm sitting here. in the south of France, somewhat somewhat in a luxury bubble. But there is enormous concern in Europe. that this is going to lead to one of the sort of why. Are you in the south of France? Because I love this part of the world. Oh, I'm, I'm in Cannes at the I'm at the Cannes Lions advertising.

Guide that okay. All right. Great. But there are people here from all over the world, and there's. enormous anxiety that this is, as we know, one of the scenarios that the Pentagon. used to use as as a possibility for the beginning of World War three. How how frightened should we be if if, as you're right, Donald. Trump doesn't actually know how to pick out Iran on a globe. I've traveled a lot this year, and and I hadn't been.

That's, but I've been to London. Paris. And I just stopped on the street. I mean, of course, like in Mayfair, half of Americans are either in the six, and there's every other person. you see and don't really come up to me where they come in. There's from Chicago. I'm really scared. And you know what I say? You're not in New York scared enough. If you knew more, you would even be more scared than you are.

And and you have every. anybody does anybody. in, you know, particularly in the West. But there's just a kind of world I grew up in as well, where you and I grew up mean. everything that we've kind of done about it. I think, is the, you know, the European Union and United States of and, you know, remarkable history and providing for a remarkable way of life, a remarkable sense of political and freedom.

And it came at a very difficult price. I don't know, maybe around. Post, like. A lot of trouble to get where we are. And it's all at risk. It's literally all at risk. And we have a buffoon. and the most important job in the world. who has no respect. for any laws, any international order, anything that has brought about a prosperity.

and a freedom that's frankly been unmatched in the history of the world. and was a blow a gasket you should be to. And I mean, duck enjoyed a wonderful climate in the Mediterranean. And by the way, one of my favorite reference to place it, I think, a little town called Saint Paul to Vox, which is right. up in the mountains not very far from the coast, called the comb d'Or. And if you ever get a chance to go there, you know, it's a very fragrant. and yeah, you know, I love that place, but. That's a very luxurious restaurant.

Oh, yeah. Why is it cut outside and smell of the trees and. Yeah, but it is actually right. It's not a, it's not a, my god. But it's a great little town but it bay. Right. All of those things that you're enjoying right now that people have thought. about and bled and constructed and their whole trading system. It's all right. Risk. Don't kid yourself. It's. no guarantee it'll be here. in a year or two. And he again that you cannot.

overestimate the sheer ignorance of Donald Trump. It's impossible. when you say you can't guarantee that it will be here in a year or two. What scenario do you actually think. is possible that would bring it to an end? So we lose any sense of constitutional order. in the United States, people right now are forging new trading agreements. If you look at what happened in the G-7 in Alberta,

you know, he storms out because no one wanted to make a deal with him. And the world is starting to learn. And this is not good for the United States. It is. They can live without us. We just thought the world doesn't want it. Our markets so bad. They wanted our movies and our airplanes, and they wanted our aircraft carriers to be patrolling. And they wanted a strong dollar. And maybe they'll move to a different system. and the system that we live under has been very beneficial.

to the United States and very beneficial to Western Europe. I've been able to enjoy, protection from the United States. And, you know, we went to our trouble. We had we had NATO, we had the European Union. And people say, well, gee, man, that's expensive. That's complicated. You know, it's really expensive. And complicated. A European land war. Try back. See, you want to try something that that didn't turn out well. Oh, let's take 1918. Let's take 1943.

It didn't go very well. And we had the salvage something. to stop that and we're losing it. And then you got the problem, you know, trying to gobble up territory, the old, you know, the. eastern side of the European Union, it's going on right now. So, James, do you think the Republicans who voted for Donald Trump, who claims that he doesn't want war, doesn't like war? Do you think this is what they bargained for?

You know, I. Think like most politicians, the first thing that they're looking for is political survival. And you cannot survive. and prosper as an elected person in today's Republican Party. without showing groveling fidelity to Donald Trump. and that these Republican voters demand that.

I mean, I'm in Louisiana. They've sent to Cassidy a very nice man. I know him, he's a physician. He voted to impeach Trump. And he was forced to go along with Bobby. Kennedy to send a casino to Bobby Kennedy, a giant fool. And of course, we see in the entire vaccination. report of the greatest health. advancement in the history of the world of vaccinations, more people. with battle lives as a result of vaccination.

than any other single health intervention that ever existed. It's not even close. We have them a sample size. of a billion people been vaccinated or something. You have been vaccinated, unvaccinated. You know, we all have in common. We don't have smallpox and, well, walking around. Right? Right. I mean, how how regressive and stupid can you be. to turn you back on the greatest health. intervention in the history of medicine?

That's what they do it. Why did Senator Cassidy, in the end, vote for, Bobby Kennedy? Yeah. He wanted to be reelected. He's now drawn to, b I can't tell you. The people that were probably there, right. I guess some idiots, because I don't know that. But they certainly expressed support for idiotic things. And the only way that he can survive is. they split the votes sufficiently enough that maybe he could sneak in like that.

I don't know, but he is. He's, I don't think he's going to be able won reelection in. And that's like, he gave up a lot, in terms of his reputation. and the way people looked at him and thought he was, well, you know, the everybody that I know. knows said the KFC people like him, his wife is quite popular. Louisiana. It's like any other culture and, you know, people. But the guy's just,

you know, it's it's though, you know, throughout literature you make a bargain with the devil. And it never turns out right. Right now, it never turned out right. You know, if I finally you give me these temporal things. and I'll have it always blows up in your face. And that's it all. Always literature. It seems particularly odd. that a doctor would have voted for Bobby Kennedy junior to especially. I know that he took extra time to talk to him, and he sort of made,

the appearance of you know, interviewing him at great lengths. But of course, as you say, he's fired everybody. on the vaccination committee and had his own group of people. It's, it's it's, you know, and it's it's. in some sense, it's just it's had. done some honorable things in his life, you know? Well, kind of respected in this is pretty sick to be remembered for. This is going to be, you know, Bill Cassidy cover your senator.

who caved to Bobby Kennedy and Donald Trump. Yeah, that's not a great legacy. So, James, how do the Democrats. exploit this moment, this this public in part. Thank you for asking the money question here. In in the right now, if you look, yesterday.

in Virginia, it was historic turnout in the Democratic primaries. We didn't have a governor's race. And I, I think people. are leading the resistance, and as it well should be, and I don't think the Democrats are going to be in total positioned. I mean, they're certainly going to exploit the big, beautiful bill of which no one likes. And I think that the research of the Democratic Party. will really be complete when we get a presidential nominee.

who has the ability to speak across the entire party and people. I support it. Yeah. So I, I don't think we can rush this. I really don't, but we. the good news is, if we got so many goddamn talented. candidates out there and we just, we just gotta trust that we have. for whatever reason, we probably have more talent right now. We have it. Look how strong our candidates are in in new Jersey and Virginia.

I mean, he's up remarkably. in under any cycle, eminently well-qualified, eminently sensible, eminently. bright people that are going to be the face of the Democratic Party. And it's not going to be a bunch of poo halves running around. Do something, George. You know, it's silly crap that you see. It's become part of Democratic politics. We've got some real leaders coming and that's going to matter.

So, James, we had, Governor Newsome on the podcast last week, and we got an enormous amount of support. for him on the comments on YouTube afterwards. And obviously, Donald Trump handed him, a national platform. when he brought in the National Guard to Los Angeles. What do you how would you assess his performance for what? He's been given the greatest gift,

that a politician can have. He's got a staggeringly good file, and he's handled it very well. I mean, look, this was his kind of moment. And the sun shined on him, and he made hay. And I think he his performance through all of this. has been very determined, very on point. Er and I think he's. increased his profile.

quite substantially as a result of this, I really do. And everybody sees this is a poll by this poll, but. Trump, you know, basically trying to do away. with the state of California, which is, you know, is an amazing thing. I know it's right. It's Japan is a very successful nation. Okay. I think they have 125 million people. California is a staggeringly successful state. Let's say that 45 million people there, GDP is higher than Japan.

It's the fourth largest GDP in the world. So. this idiotic. California bastion, which is just what it is idiotic. And we should all be so lucky, is to be California, to be honest with you, it's the greatest system of higher. education ever devised by any and any place, anywhere in the world. The more patterns that come out of them, per.

capita, probably than most anyplace in the world. So. But he he was given an opportunity and he made good use of it. And I admire him and congratulate him for that. Donald Trump, among other things that he said over the last couple of days, has said that he wants the VA hospital. treating veterans not to treat, veterans who aren't married and to avoid or if they want, they can choose not to treat veterans who are Democrats.

I'm not sure how they would know that it which seems even for Donald Trump. to be a pretty off the wall statement. and I'm just I'm just, you know, curious as to what you make of it. You got a weak no, you don't. So we'll try to distill it as much as I can. There are 17.6 veteran suicides a day in the United States. How many? 17.68 day. That's terrible.

The most sacred contract that any government can make. is for this particular soldiers and sailors. That when you come in, we're not gonna pay you very much. You're more likely to get hurt or injured or have something bad happened to you. during this. And in most other people. But what we're going to do in exchange for that is we're going to give you. good health care, good benefits. We're not gonna leave you in a large. and of course, Trump the couple. Bone spurs himself has no idea using these soldiers.

on Saturday afternoon to his own sort of glory, he decides that he's going to pick and choose what veterans get. What you know, during the nine two campaign, one of the big honors. that I got is we did an event with the Tuskegee Airmen. Oh, yeah, we put this very famous, squadron of of black pilots in World War Two. I don't know, but I my sense is most of them were Democrats,

you know, by the reception area, you know, some of the most honorable people. that we've ever had in our country. And the fact that, how do you determine if you registered Democrat? I mean, I have no idea what he's talking about, but the Donald Trump is a man of of. of no crews, no upbringing, no sense of curiosity,

who doesn't have the remotest idea of what service. But by the way, why would he give any veteran anything? He told Gerald Kelly that they were all fools. White suckers enlist. Yeah, suckers and losers. Sorry, I cannot. Yeah, I, I we don't have the time. and I don't have the vocabulary to say what a wretched person this guy is. I think you do have the vocabulary. It's a family podcast for it. You mentioned the parade.

The big birthday parade. Do you think he was, wounded by the protests? The no King's protests in 2000 and cities across America. I mean, the six, the between 4 and 6 million. people who turned up to protest peacefully. I think he was more wounded by the. day parade, you know, didn't turn out like he said they were. And he thought there would be masses of people. The soldiers were clearly so near a soldier.

And they call you and maybe you stationed in North Carolina. or somewhere, and you got to come to Washington for your weekend. You got to show up five hours before the parade. It's a Saturday in June. I do. You got to dress up in uniform. You got to march. I don't know how many miles. You know, I'm very happy about it. And for what? Not to engage in the enemy.

Not to to do anything. I mean, it was a two hour 50th anniversary. United States Army. It did. And of course, Trump makes it all by himself. And you can see that that. these youngsters were not particularly enthusiastic about being there. I haven't been, I guess I was a marine, not a soldier. But what I would do, like been to go march round. or the Saturday afternoon to score vacation or some idiot jerk. But then I think that I don't blame him for the NFL.

Okay. Bye. Be very afraid. Well, not the happiest notes on which to end, but I like to think of James. sitting calmly now, sipping his red wine in his farmhouse in the Shenandoah Valley. And I'm about to go and have a glass of rosé on the closet. Join me on Sunday for a conversation with Evan Osnos. He decodes the super yachts. The crazy habits of the Uber wealthy, the plutocracy, the Uber billionaires,

which is perfect for the weekend before Jeff Bezos, his wedding to Lauren Sanchez in Venice. Join us then. So even if you're a billionaire listening to this Be a Beast. This podcast was produced by Devin Roger Reno. and Anna Von Ersan, and it was edited by Jesse Millward.