I Know Why Trump Isn't The Man I Knew: Anthony Scaramucci | The Daily Beast Podcast

He's the Wicked Witch of the West Wing. when he eventually gets hit with the water, which will happen. because it's still in a pretty amazing country. And when he goes down, then the question is going to be, okay, who's going to replace him? And I predicted there will be a fight. I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast and back by popular demand. a man who has opinions on everything, which is great because everything is going on right now. We have troops in the cities. We have. Is Jimmy Kimmel on there? Is Jimmy Kimmel off the air?

No. He's back. Someone who always makes me feel that there is an answer. and things will get better is none other than the former. white House communications director Anthony Scaramucci. He is, of course, the founder of SkyBridge capital, but he also worked for Donald Trump during his campaign. And then during Trump won as,

a very important person in the transition, bringing in all sorts of people. Of course, now, he says that that was a terrible mistake, but he has a brilliant point of view on how Trump operates. And he's full of thoughts about who is going to succeed Trump. We ended up. having a wild ride of a conversation which went in all sorts of directions. I wasn't particularly expecting, but I found it stimulating. and very optimistic, actually. So if you're feeling bleak about the state of the world, which I do understand,

I hope you will feel more optimistic at the end of our conversation. Let's get into it. Anthony Scaramucci, so good to have you back. I want you just to tell, audience why you couldn't do the podcast last week. because you were in Italy with your daughter. And what was your daughter doing? Yes. So my daughter is an opera singer, and, she's actually here in New York right now preparing, for tonight. But she was on tour with Andrea Bocelli in Italy.

And so my wife and I went over there to see her and to, obviously support her. I thought as excuses go. And I called you to say, Anthony, we have to have a conversation. The world is on fire. You were like, darling, I'm in Italy. My daughter is performing. with Andrea Porcelli, and I just thought, you know what? Okay, let him play. I wasn't really trying to brag about it as much as I'm marveling at it. You know, I think it's a it's a it's a wonderful thing for her. And it's well deserved. But, you know, I didn't call it theater.

The goal is to get her into a, a voice situation in a Disney animation. So let's see if that ever happens in her life. But that's that's one of her life streams. The girl, the girl of every parent is to get their child into a paying job, Anthony. As long as they're financially independent and hopefully the bigger the better. Right? The artists have a little bit harder time than that. As you put. You and I both know Joanna, but let's. See, both know. We both know. Although your your hedge fund is doing just fine. But listen, I wanted to talk to you because there's been so much going on.

since we last talked, which was about a month ago. And I think a lot of people think that you only worked for Donald Trump. for those famous 11 days when you were white House communications. director, but in fact, you were on his campaign for nine months. You were part of his transition team. So this is a man, you know. Well, you've seen him up close. And I want to get into what it's like working with him. But what I wanted to ask you first, because there's been so much discussion.

about his health and his state of mind, is, is this the Donald Trump that you knew? Well, I mean, it is in some ways, and it is. And I think it's funny that people would say that, by the way, because. So Trump just plucked me out of the public and said, come be my community. Of course I work for him. Otherwise how would I have gotten the job? Because, well, because the mooch itself was Scaramouche. United were also on the transition team, you know, I know may help Mnuchin. and those guys build a cabinet.

You know I was on that team with Ben and and Priebus. That's how we got to know and dislike each other. Right. Because those were who were the worst people I ever met. You know the Mnuchin was great. But Priebus and Bannon were like two disasters. But but the the truth be told it is because this is Trump's way. you can watch interviews of him from the 1980s. talking about tariffs or trade or things like that. But there is something different because he has gotten the power to rob,

you know, he's got he smoked the the grandeur, the crack crystal of power. And he's marveling at the fact that he can bully people. that are powerful and they kowtow to him. Now, you know, Putin is not going to do that. She's not going to do that to a guy like Mark Carney, who's intellectually secure. The prime minister of Canada. I mean, if he's not going to do that, but a lot of these guys are doing that. and they're caving, and it's just a reminder. to people that the bullies usually don't win.

because the rest of the people team up and they go after the bully, you know? But in Donald Trump's case, though, he's flexing on everybody successfully. And I know enough about his personality to know he's marveling at that. He's laughing. He's laughing at it, you know. But remember when the witch when the witch got hit with the water. in The Wizard of Oz? What happened? The witch shrunk down. You were left with the witch's hat. That'll be the MAGA hat, the red hat, and then the guards around the witch said, oh, geez, I'm sorry, Dorothy.

So this is a full on personality, Co he's the Wicked Witch of the West Wing. When he eventually gets hit with the water, which will happen. because it's still an A pretty amazing country. And there's a lot of people in the country and a lot of people. in government that know how bad he is and know what he's doing. He's very disruptive to the Constitution and very disruptive to the checks. and balances the country. He's going to get hit with the water, and when he goes down, then the question is going to be, okay, who's going to replace him?

And I predict that there will be a fight. There'll be a leadership vacuum in the Republican Party. and there'll be a fight, and we'll see what happens, you know, and I and I want to be part of that fight. I want to be in the fight seeing if we can break the populist. hold on this party and see if we can return to something more germane. and something more relevant that actually helps people. Because right now, everybody that voted for him, he is hurt. He's hurting people through the tariffs. He's hurting people with the price increases.

He's hurting people. With the slowdown in the economy, there's a tremendous. amount of uncertainty about his economic policy. And so the people that voted for him, I mean, I'm blown away. I go to these parties and they're like, yeah, you know, lumber prices are tripled. And so the housing starts are slowed down. But he's our guy. And five years from now, the lumber in the US is going to replace the lumber from Canada. Hey. Hey, buddy. That's not how it works, right? You're in a fully integrated global economy. And the nonsense that Trump is spewing and the bullshit that you're listening to.

on Fox News aren't the facts on the ground. Okay, so hold on one. There you go. Did I just hear you say that you were thinking of running for president? No, I didn't hear that I do I, I be part of this. You said you wanted to be part of it. But, Anthony. I'm trying to. Play. Joanna. I'm trying to. I'm running for reelection in my marriage. Joanne. Okay, okay. I'm just trying to stay married. Okay? Remember, I almost got divorced when I was working for Trump,

and I missed the birth of my son. I don't know if you remember that. I didn't know you missed the birth of your son. You see, people forget the story, but I was on the 24th of July 2017. I was in West Virginia with the president at a Boy Scout rally. My wife and I were fighting. She was due in August. She, you know, prematurely delivered. I he's a beautiful kid. Thank God he's eight years old. And I couldn't get back to New York, even though we were fighting.

You know, I was going to be present for the birth. I couldn't get back to New York. There was a no fly zone around the, the president. It was an unmitigated disaster. When I got fired from the white House, my wife had already filed for divorce. I missed the birth of my son, and I got literally burned. in effigy in the American and global media. And that's what your political adversaries do to you, Joanna. They create these two dimensional people. who try to flatten you and turn you into a caricature. And I've I've successfully blown myself.

back up with all my warts, all my frailty, but I blow myself back up. intellectually and, you know, if you go into politics. Joanna, you got a lie. You're a journalist. What are journalist want to do? They want to seek the truth, right? Ultimately, that's what you want to do. I'm a truth teller. I like telling people the truth. But don't you think after all. You got to do was lie to everybody. But a graphic. Five kids? I don't I don't want my kids. Just tell me right now my kids are like, my dad is a flawed dude.

He's a big risk taker. Sometimes he's fallen on his head. He's a public figure. So when he falls on his head, the press goes crazy. and they write really crazy shit about him. He hasn't, you know, he keeps going, but I don't if I don't want to part is a wow. He's a he's a, he's a liar like all these other jerk offs. But you've got you've probably been through the worst, hadn't you? You've been tested by fire. There's going to be a huge new ballroom. where your five children can ride their bikes and have fun again. Right? Well, so when you say you want to be part of it, what do you mean?

When? You know, I want to be part of the debate. I want to be part of the debate. I think, I think our generation, which unfortunately includes you and me, we failed the Western. civilization, the political class in Europe, that is, of my vintage has failed the civilization. Okay, we over promised. We under taxed. We created massive deficit spending. Speaking specifically about the United States, the follies.

in the Middle East were very costly right now. To use an American sports analogy, if you'll forgive me, Osama bin laden is winning the baseball game. It's six. Nothing. Bottom of the seventh inning. We're the home team and we're down six. Nothing. Why do I say that? Well, bin laden wrote on the park. I have I have no idea what that sports analogy means whatsoever, but I don't see how Osama bin laden actually is winning.

Oh, no, he won big time. Let me tell you how he won. He he wrote on the dark web that the US would overreact to our terrorist attacks. They would spend their blood and treasure. They would fight over their civil liberties. The Patriot Act. And we blew a hole in our, operating budget. We spent $8 trillion in the Middle East, killed millions of people, tens of thousands of Western soldiers. And we got nowhere. But we've heard ourselves, and now we're divided. Now we're polarized.

And it's led to the rise of popular. Everything that bin laden predicted that we would do to ourselves. to cause the demise of us is happening. He brought down the Soviet Union with our help. And he said, Now I'm. going to turn the gun on you guys and you'll fight with yourselves. and blow yourselves up. And we don't have any transformational leaders. that will sit down and say, dudes, we're playing into the hands of our adversaries. We're letting the social media be manipulated by Russia and China. Yeah, I think, I think I think he's I think he I think miss winning.

Osama bin laden couldn't have seen the advent of Facebook and TikTok and. and now the new open. I saw that he saw the overreaction of the American government. to those acts of terror. And which led to I remember Bush went to war without a tax cut. You know, it was the first time in our history, I mean, we had a. we had a small insert, a 1965, but it was a much smaller war. We went to war in the Middle East without a tax cut.

Moreover, we cut the taxes in March of 2001. And then he didn't restore the taxes. And it was the first time in our history with the war that without a tax increase. and he blew a fiscal hole led to the global financial crisis. It led to over borrowing by the Obama administration. Well, it led to the it led to the Taliban eventually retaking Afghanistan. So. our resume change was going from the Taliban. to the Taliban in 20 years and blowing 7 to 8, $8 trillion.

But just remember this, okay? George Washington, the George W Bush, $7. trillion, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, $31 trillion. What the hell are we doing? Okay, what the hell are we actually doing? Okay. And moreover, they got the government shut down now. And so every time they shut down the government. and they go to restart it, it's more costly.

All right. So if you're going to be involved in. thinking about new Republican leadership post Donald Trump, how do you want to counteract the impact of social media? The fact that our adversaries are using it extremely effectively to sow division, and the fact that internally, America is also divided? Well, and maybe Macron is right, you know, maybe we gave too much power. The social media companies whose algorithms are set up. to make us combative with each other because when we have the heat,

you have more listeners and you get more addiction. And maybe, maybe, maybe Macron is right, allowing the Russians and the Chinese. to influence unduly or the or the North Koreans, the social media platforms. Maybe there needs to be more regulation of the airwaves, like we regulate, you know, television through the FCC. I don't know, I don't know the answer. I can tell you this, though. There's no short term answer. I can tell you from my life experience.

that short term political situations. or short term political solutions, they don't add up to much. The Chinese, which is still something from their playbook. They think in ten, 20, 30, 50 year units of time. And I don't think there's one problem in the United States that we can't solve. But long term thinking that includes entitlement spending, the budget, the deficit, it's an unbelievable country. Okay, I, I, I believe in the country's.

ability to adapt and flex flex itself. Again. I always say that about the Chinese that they plan 100 years. And if you, you know, I think the last Chinese leader was asked. what he thought of the French Revolution, and he said, it's too early to tell. Right. That's a wonderful kind of example of how they think. But the American political system is not set up like that. The minute a president gets in, he has to start campaigning for his next term.

Congress people are there for two years. So the minute they get there, all they're thinking about. is raising money for their next term. We're not set up actually to make long term decisions. So so this is where requires entrepreneurial thinking right. So that's that's to zero. And what does an entrepreneur have to do. They have to go from 0 to 1 okay. So if you think like an entrepreneur you've got to get an entrepreneur. into the marketplace to bring in the Nonvoters. There's a as you and I have talked about on your podcast,

there's 100 million people. They're both the exact. same way in every single election, a very powerful voting group. It's a non voter. And what you have to do is you have to go into that market. because these two cats, the Republicans and the Democrats, they broke the system. They they created a very tight duopoly. after Ross Perot scared them in 1992, they made it impossible for third parties to enter the system. They, they they trapped each other in their. in their in their positions through gerrymandering, okay?

They allow each other to gerrymander. They accuse each other of doing it, but they're both doing it. And it ensures the electability of these incumbents. So, you know, said differently, the Congress has a 14% approval rating, slightly above Kim Jong, the North Korean dictator, slightly above it, but yet 95% of the incumbents get reelected. This is because of the way they gerrymander those districts. So there is systemic things that have happened. that have broken the system, that have now led to this widespread cynicism.

But you have to get somebody out there, explain to the American people what happened, explain why. Chuck Grassley, who's 600 years older than George Washington, and Nancy. Pelosi, 500 years older than Martha Washington, won't leave the Congress. They won't leave, you know, and we had Dianne Feinstein, you know, mayors, sole residents who used to really go around. wheeling around like she's an an elder care facility. Yeah. Because they won't leave because they're addicted to the power.

Right. And so what you have to do is you have to break that system. So to me, I actually think younger people in their 40s. should be taking on these jobs. I'm in my 60s. I'm happy to help. I'm happy to offer advice. I'm happy to help. people think about the long term plan that we need to fix the government. But let's get some younger people in the mix. who understand where they want to take the world, okay? And and we can fix it, but we're not going to fix it.

In the current status, you're going to need to. amend the Constitution and end Citizens United. And for your listeners outside the United States, that's a ridiculous. Supreme Court decision rendered in January of 2010. that gives unlimited amounts of money supply into political causes, which has been a disaster for the country because all the legislation. has skewed to big business, big pharma, tax cuts for the rich, big wealthy, and they don't give a shit about the average citizen anymore.

The big beautiful spending bill gave a $7,000 benefit. If you're making over $1 million a year and a $700 deduction in benefits, if you were making less than $50,000. And and by the way, by the way, 38% of the people supported it. They did. They voted on it anyway. Because look at me. That's an Italian expression. For those of you that are listening at home, I just flip Joanne off with my chin. Okay? Cuz that's what the politicians are doing.

But you know the best thing Donald Trump has going for him the last decade? Joanna. The Democrats, that's the best thing he's got going for him. They're scolds. They want to cancel everybody. They're righteous. You know, they didn't want to they didn't want my help. I once worked for Donald Trump. How about opening the tent. and redefining the party as a pro-democracy pro constitution party? No, no, we can't do that. We gotta fight with each other and have litmus tests inside the party. I mean, and he laughs. My God, is he laugh at them.

He thinks it's great. He's hoping Mondale he wins by a landslide here in New York so that they can use. Monday's programs as a. punching bag to further consolidate the hard right. All right. So I want to come back to Mamdani. But before we do, let's talk about some of the people in his cabinet right now. is because they're clearly going to be circling each other. They're already circling each other, to, to, succeed him.

Pete Hegseth speech to the generals. last week felt like a platform that he was running on. Yeah, he's too insecure of a guy, though. I mean, you're a good student of body language, and he's a good looking guy. He's obviously in good physical shape, but he's a mental midget. I mean, he's just too insecure, right? He doesn't have the capability. He does have the wealth of knowledge, the understanding of the American population. And he's he's got this overbite of forceful exaggeration.

or, to quote Trump, what the hell is he doing with his hands? Too much hand movement. So too. Much hand made it. So hex Seth is out. Okay, go to the next one. What about Marco Rubio? No, no. shot because Marco Rubio is a weathervane, okay? And Marco Rubio was once standing next to Jeb Bush and George W Bush, and he was talking from a Republican reaganesque playbook. And now all of a sudden, he's MAGA. And people look at him with great levels of disingenuousness.

He doesn't have the ability. Remember, whether you like Trump or you don't like Trump, this is what I stand. for. And you create a coalition by standing for something. This was Hillary Clinton's problem. You can't be a Cub fan in Chicago when a met fan or a Yankee fan. in New York because people know years you know you're bullshitting them. They don't like it. Okay. And so Rubio okay, that that one star. Was. Holding. Up one. What about JD Vance, who in 2016 was calling Trump Hitler. So JD Vance looks very promising right now because he's in the lane.

He just had dinner with Trump at, you know, at the residence, the Naval Observatory, the vice president's residence. And he looks very promising right now, but he will implode. He will go into the Trump Woodchipper you've ever seen Fargo where they're. putting the guy to that good. Yeah. Yeah. So that's going to happen to him because because like William Shakespeare. wrote about, the old guy does not want the new guy to replace him. Trump is such a nihilist that he actually like the Democrats to a price.

I mean, people say, what are you talking about? You don't know. He's why? And remember, the Republican Party is successful because I, Donald Trump made it successful. Once he leaves the stage, he wants it to implode. That's what these people are like, you know? I mean, that's their personalities. You know, remember, I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler, but in April of 1945, when they were sitting with Hitler, said, look, it's over, Hitler turned to his generals. Okay? Michael Beschloss wrote about this. 20 years ago, Hitler turned to a channel, said flood the coal mines.

and bring down the electrical grid in the urban in the urban areas. And they look at what the hell are you talking about? Well, we're not going to have a thousand. You're right that I'm running, I want them, I you're think to cave, right? Okay, so people are nuts. You know, people are nuts. So he's going to go scorched earth. on the Republican Party rather than by anyone and probably. You know, then then the fight's going to start. So anybody that you think anybody that Trump is read about. that is a quote unquote supposed successor to him whose last name is not Trump,

he will figure out a way to eviscerate over the next 36 months. What about someone coming in from the outside, like Erica Cook? Well, listen, you know, I. have to I have to tell you that she's very impressive to me, okay? And I, I knew Charlie and had my differences with Charlie. I certainly didn't like some of the things that Charlie said, but I did respect Charlie's right to say those things. And I don't think anybody should die,

from political violence or we're now going to shoot at each other. if they don't like, with each other, saying, you know, and don't don't underestimate the power of Charlie Kirk. And don't underestimate the exponential support. that Charlie was getting, from younger people in the country. So as that power was going exponential, you know, somebody purposefully took him out. I don't think it's just. I think, well, I think there's more to this story than we're hearing. But on your part, you're part of the Charlie Kirk.

conspiracy that you don't think it was just Tyler Robinson? No, I didn't say that because I don't know. I didn't say that I'm not. But you said you thought there was more to it. I mean. I do. I think there's more to it because there's, because there was he was going exponential. He was going exponential. A result of which when someone becomes. that powerful, they're not controlled anymore. Okay. So again, I'm not it could be the guy that killed him. And the prima face facts are what they are.

But I'm just saying let's wait for more information. to unfold because there's some inconsistencies in those facts. Also, when you look at those text messages, I have finally found something that I agree with Steve Bannon on. No kid rights like that, Joanna. No kid ever. I mean, I got a lot of kids. There's no. And by the way, in order to impress each other, they butcher the grammar. that all writing clear complete sentences. So you know some of the stuff I'm not 100% buying, but but we'll see. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I don't buy into all that bullshit. I believe in science. I know the earth has been been affected by human consumption of fossil fuels. I'm not an idiot. So. But, but, but, but let's get the gun back on the bird. Erica Kirk is impressive to me. Could she run for something? Sure. Does she want to be the president? I'd say she's 36 years old. I don't I don't think we're going to be electing somebody president. at 36 or 40, but who the hell knows? The country's changing.

And, you know, this is the country where the impossible becomes very possible, but. Okay. Eric. Erica. I'm sorry. Erica, I that's to me. And let's see, let's see how how her political career unfolds. Would Trump ever let one of his children. become president after. He would want that? Oh, you think he would want that? Yes. Absolutely no. He would want one of his children to be successor. I think Eric gave an interview in the Ft that he's open minded to the idea.

I think. I think they want to make money, though. I think it's very clear. Well, I think they're making money, aren't they? Though maybe by the time Trump would be Trump senior would be ready to go. Yeah. Megan I which keep your eye on the midterms. Right. Because if you know Trump will go wild, you know, if he loses the house, no problem. But he loses the House and Senate. Big problem because then these investigations are going to be wide open.

And the Epstein stuff is going to be wide open. And, you know, Trump could be accused of all types of emoluments Clause violations, and it could be quite early for all the things said his apparatchiks. are willing to overlook, which are rule breaking. Probably wouldn't be overlooked by the people. if they got control of the House and Senate. Okay, so. Look for Trump to be more crazy. And by the way, I'll make a prediction on your show after the midterms. Trump is going to be, however crazy that he has been in the first.

Could he get any crazier? What are we going to get through you of get crazy. Here and see what can he do that you try and then a jury boy. More National Guardsmen. He's gonna take more money for himself. It's going to be the last two years of him being able to have a money grab. in the last two years of him. getting the world's attention, and he'll be 81, 82 years old. He'll be lighting firecrackers everywhere and shooting off skyrockets everywhere.

To set your hair on fire. You know, Trump sucks for everything. But you know what? He's great for Joanna, the podcast business girl. It's great clip. That's very nice. A podcast business because you got people listening to you. So like, you know, Joanna's cheaper than my therapist. Let me listen to her for 35 minutes, you know. Well, and they like hearing people come on and paint a post. Trump view, too, because it reminds us that the world will continue. If the were to be, which Trump son would it be? I'm assuming it's not going to be Ivanka because she said she doesn't.

like politics. It's too rough of a business and she sort of exited the stage. The two boys, Eric and Donald Junior, still. hanging around and obviously doing a lot of business as to be fair. I think as I think Don Jr, who is very well loved by the base, you know, you could see a situation. where Vance recognizes that he's going into the Trump woodchipper. and Vance tries to enlist. Junior's help and says, hey, man, and he goes to Trump.

He said, we're going to get a Trump on the ticket. And it's a Vance Trump ticket with Donald Trump Jr. That's not impossible. You know. Nearest thing that's. Going to have Vance is going to have to do some things. to keep himself out of the woodchipper. And I think, you know, Trump, it's got to be Trump related, you know. And by the way, remember Trump, there was a blond woman. I got to get her name first season apprentice. She was doing a great job on the show and she's very well regarded.

She's getting a lot of speaking gigs, a lot of speaking gigs. Trump went crazy boom boom, shot her and brought a vodka in to replace her. Okay, so anybody that thinks Trump doesn't do this, go call Mike pence, ask him how his political career is going. Joanna. Say, Mike, what was it like to be the VP there? Yeah, I mean, we always we might ask Mother. Pence too, because Martha Pence had strong feelings about it. But but also, isn't that the great skill of the brilliant television producer? It's what Shonda Rhimes always does.

Just as you fall in love with the character, she has some mone down by a truck. Exactly. So he's very good at that, keeping people on their toes is unexpected, and also it keeps your attention like complex constantly. And you know, we got to have a conflict with the South African president. I have a conflict of a little more. God, I've caught it. But then if you're going to be in his presence, you got to manage it. It's like Schumer. and Hakeem Jeffries, they walk in, he's throwing Trump 2028 hats around.

They're going to stand up and leave. Yes okay Mr. President you're not being serious. Call me back when you're being serious. Call me back. But you're not being serious right now okay? So you flirt with him. How should his cabinet be handling him? Because all you see is them fawning over him. And as you say, he's laughing at the heads of industry. You say, who are doing this to. So the tech leaders who sit for the tech dinner that he had. at the white House, or that was summoned in to Windsor Castle,

how should how should people. exude enough independence working with him. and not have to fawn all over him to keep his respect? Those days are long over. Are you texting? Are you texting? I'm not doing on to. My 1:00 that I'm running late for. You know, it's politicking, prodding at this thing. But now I have to tell my 1:00 that I'm running late.

because I want to finish this conversation with you. I apologize. And the conversations going in wild places I wasn't expecting. Not least that you're going to be involved. in selecting the new candidate, which I'm excited is going. To be I'm going to definitely put some money where my mouth is, and I'm. going to definitely work with some people. to see if we can wrest control. of this populist party and turn it back into something. that's actually effective for the people that voted for it. That's all I'm saying. I know the people that voted for it because I grew up with them.

I would like the party to be effective for them, and I wouldn't like them to be conned by the party. where, hey, you come vote for us and we're going to give tax cuts. to the rich and fat cats and corporate welfare breaks and give you nothing. Okay, so I have a serious. Back to the question that you were asking. I apologize for texting, but I had to let the guy know I was running late. It's fine. Don't worry. I'm teasing you. I'm teasing you. But it's always that thing when you're on zoom. and you see someone's eyeline go down.

I like to do that because I got to let the people. I'll let you normally. But. But here, let me say to you, Joanna, you were asking a question. about his success source. And unless the person's name is Trump, she doesn't give $0.02 about it. That's my point okay. And that's a set Ben is operating system forever. It is about me. Enough of me talking about me. What do you think of me. That is Donald Trump.

okay. And so you have to understand that there's one spotlight on it's a one man show. And all those people that you ask me about, they have to kiss his ass now. because Trump two is about equivocating to Donald Trump. and his attitude now, he didn't have this attitude in Trump, one. trying to work in the system, and he's trying to listen to some people. Trump two is you kiss my ass or you leave, kiss my ass. And they're all like this woof, woof. Exactly how, how. How are they able to.

what is the most effective way to push back against Donald Trump? We saw since we last spoke, we had the brief Kimmel moment. where Kimmel was dropped and then he was back by popular demand. That felt like it might be a moment. How are you supposed to push back against Donald Trump? What's effective? Okay, so what's effective. is recognizing that there is tremendous opposition, and what's effective is recognizing that he is not as powerful as you think he is.

He only has power over you if you think he has power over you. Robert Harris, who is a, British fiction writer, publish novelist. Fantastic. He wrote a book. He wrote a book about seven years ago called Munich. And he has a tremendous amount of research for the book. It is historical fiction. But there was one piece of fact that he made very relevant in that book. The bureaucrats and the establishment governmental officials. in Germany hated Adolf Hitler.

And if you looked at their notes and you looked at all of. their private papers with each other that were discovered after the war, they were expecting Chamberlain to come in and muscle Hitler, and they were ready to breach Hitler from inside. Okay. But Chamberlain came in and weakened to Hitler. And so the message to Bob Iger and others. muscle up and take this son of a bitch on. and he'll crack like the Wicked Witch of the West. Okay. Don't empower him like Chamberlain did Hitler take him on so.

What do you. You have to do? You have to draw a line. Okay? And I'm going to tell you something very encouraging before we leave this show. When I talk to the lobbyists. Okay. And I got a lot of friends that are lobbyists. You know what they tell me? Yeah. The CEO is out there kissing Trump's ass. He's sitting in the stupid, you know, circle with, and roof saying whatever the hell Trump wants. Then his staff is calling me and saying, this guy's fucking nuts. Can you make this go away?

Call the can Congress call the call the aides inside the white House. And people are underestimating the amount of money. that's getting spent in Washington by the fortune. 500 and other businesses to stop Donald Trump's nonsense. Okay, well, that's all right. And by the way, that's going. on, by the way, also, I'm an economist, as you know, trained as an economist. How come he's going to fall off the cliff shortly? Because one of the things we do at SkyBridge is we look at the forward. shipments coming into the ports, all the flatbed trucks.

that are being organized and getting ready for the next six months of shipments. It's going way down, way down. And so when the economy weakens, he's going to get blamed for it. because he's going to be heading into the midterms with a weaker economy, which is why he wants to jam rates down 400 basis points. But there's an opportunity here. So my message to people is muscle up, cut the nonsense. Think like a more corny grow a backbone the way Bob Iger displayed last week.

And you'll knock this guy on his ass. But if you're if you're going to sit there cowering in fear, you seize the president and you're not, then you're going to be in trouble. You're going to you're going to you're going to fulfill something about. about the situation that does not need to be fulfilled. So if you're Bill gates and you're sitting at the tech dinner that he had and you, you, you know, you end up thanking the president. for creating this incredible environment for everybody to come back together. And you just look like a fawning toady.

What would standing up look like? Well, they're not going to stand up because they. That's how they get to be billionaires, okay? You don't get to be billionaires on principle, Joanna. You get to be billionaires by being equivocating. and knowing how to work the system. So, you know, you're not going to expect any of those guys to stand up. What they're doing is they're standing up behind his family at the inauguration, and they're writing checks because they don't. want their companies broken up by the FTC. Right. And they don't they don't want to have harm to them. and their their wives who tell them, hey, we're on a yacht in the halo.

We're on the yacht in the Mediterranean. What do you want to do, pay the guy off, make them go away. Okay. The people that stand up, or people like you, or people like me. who actually don't give that much about money. and are focused more on the principle and the philosophy. And somebody like me, there's an unconditional love affair with my country, and I've had brave people in my family fight for the country. The person I'm named after was on Normandy Beach 80 years ago, 81 years ago. I'm not going to stand up for the country, and I tell people the truth.

about what the hell is going on. Am I going to stand up to Trump? I mean, come on, give me a break. Give me a break. They still work for us, don't we? Don't work for them. It's not Putin's America yet. You have to. Prove that it isn't. Let's make sure that it isn't. All right. So final serious question, because I know you've talked. thousands of texts coming at you and with massively overrun, but always so much, so much fun to talk to you. Is it too late? Do you think. It's not too late? Because there's super smart people in the country and they know.

elements of the system are broken and it's not too late. because this is a country that is incredibly, nearly plastic. This country adapts. We started out with slavery. We ended the slavery. 600,000 people died in order for that to happen, but we ended it. We have race in the country, certainly. Has it gotten better? It has gotten better for women. It's gotten better for blacks. Okay. We have a wave of xenophobia hitting the country right now. Most people do not like it.

They do not like the ice videos of people getting detained, and they don't like the violence associated with it. It's a good country. Most of the people in this country came here for a reason, or their families came here for a reason, and we can make the place better. So I don't accept that it's over. I don't buy into the system more, more from an entrepreneur. So I had to create a company from nothing and turn it into something over 20 years. So don't tell me from a political perspective that we cannot do that.

I believe that we can do that, but we need a fresher perspective. We need more honest people. I'll tell you, if you laid out for the American people what's really going on, many of those people say, you know, I've had enough. Let's go with this slate of changes. You know, Lincoln said something great about the Americans. I think Douglas, in one of the debates said that the Americans weren't. that smart. And Lincoln said, well, you're underestimating the Americans. You know what the Americans have? In the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln, they got a very good nose,

and they can smell a rotting cadaver in their basement. And that rotting cadaver is this current bipartisan government. and this current bipartisan political class, which has got the government shutdown wildly overspending, lurching in every which direction to to feed themselves at the trial. of the lobbyists, the military industrial complex, big food and big pharma. And we got to put it to an end. And by the way, we got to put it to an end in order to ensure.

the prosperity and the further drivability of the country. So we're going to we got to work on that. The weird thing about the weird thing about Trump, he's caused so much damage, that he's finally got people that were generally disinterested. and indifferent to politics say, okay, whoa, okay, I got it. I got to get involved. Somehow. I got to I got to get involved somehow before this thing runs amok. And my children and grandchildren. are in a disaster zone where there's people living in McMansions, in security perimeters, and everyone else is doing poorly.

We don't want that in this country. Okay. Well, that's a very positive note on which to end our conversation. I was going to end it on comments that people left last time. you were on the podcast. In fact, I'm going to give you a couple because what was fun about them. was that everybody was expecting to feel hostile to you. And in fact, they, like you said, Joanna. By the way, about people wanting to hostile to me. Trust me. Joanna, I didn't like Anthony Scaramucci.

before this interview, but you showed what he is really like. I like him now. You're doing a great job of helping us citizens understand. what's happening to our country. I appreciate it, I love Anthony, but I don't think he realizes. that the rest of the world is moving on and won't easily forgive America. Joanna, this is my favorite interview from The Daily Beast. It's novel to hear an honest, integris, blunt, true man who shoots. straight from the hip and is uninterested in painting himself in the best way.

I can't wait to hear more from. And let's. Look. First of all, those are sweet come out and. Thousands of comments I. Want to say, well, first of all, very sweet comments. that I'm grateful for, but I want to I want to go to that second comment. where unfortunately, I do believe that that person is right. I do believe that we have dug a hole for ourselves. Okay. You know, if you watch this, we're talking about Bob Iger. Ask him about attendance at Disney. because the Canadians are not showing up like they've traditionally showed up. You know I took my kids on the Disney cruise.

Typical driver that always picks me up every year. How's it going? He says now my business down 20%. The Canadians are just not showing up at Port Canaveral or Orlando. And when I travel in Europe or I travel in Asia, the damage is that there's recognizable damage. This is Putin's boy. He's been instructed by Putin to bash our allies. and to make them feel insecure about their relationship, their long term. relationship with the United States. And Putin's boy has helped to do that.

And that means that the next group of leaders, it's going to have a hard time. because, you know, what is that say about a reputation 20 years. to build or in the case of the United States, 80 years to build. You can lose it in ten minutes. And so that that woman or man, whoever wrote that comment is dead on, Joanna. And we have to we have to dig in here and work on the restoration. and the renewal of what America means to the rest of the world. This nonsense that Trump is presenting, I don't really think that that's it.

Ultimately, I don't think Americans want to be thought of like that. But we're talking right. We're talking once again. But again, we're talking. All right. I hope to see you very soon. Enjoy. You're always a pleasure to be on with you. Yeah. I'm pleased. Send me the, I want to see your daughter singing with Andrea Bocelli. Okay, I'll send that to you right now. My good. You know, and. Obviously a. braggadocious father son, it's literally the next test.

So you'll notice that I'll be doing while I'm on zoom with you. Okay? But there's always something good about hearing new music. It's uplifting, and we need uplifting things. Listen, I mean, you know, I'm an optimist for one simple reason. The country has a dynamism still, and the country is really an entrepreneurs country. Lots of risk taking, for the generations to get here, lots of risk taking and people know that something is broken. And by the way, I'm indicting both parties here. I'm not just leaning on Trump.

We've we've got reasons why Trump rose to power, but we've also got to look at both sides of this thing and say, wow, this is really not been good for the Americans and we can fix it. I do believe that. Good. We can fix it. See you soon. Be well, thank you Joe. By. I love Anthony's energy and. his optimism and his determination to fix it. His parents were immigrants. You heard him say that his grandfather actually fought on the beaches.

of Normandy. And I also thought, referring to Robert Harris's book Munich, and the expectation that people had around Adolf Hitler, that Neville Chamberlain, the premier of Britain, the prime minister of Britain, was actually coming in to to save them. and to help them get rid of Adolf Hitler. And in fact, then they just, solidified his position. Was also a very interesting reference. And that is a very good book.

To be fair, all Robert Harris's books are pretty good. He also wrote conclave. Brilliant timing with the film and then the poor previous popes untimely death. Anyway, thank you for joining us. If you have been, don't forget, leave us a comment. But more importantly, subscribe to The Daily Beast wherever you are. We are independent media and we appreciate your support. We love reading your comments and we do read them, I read them. Michael Wolff reads them, our team reads them and they mean a lot. And also you give us very good suggestions for points of view.

and also people to interview. As our first lady would have us say beast. And the special thank you to our beast level of YouTube members. Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodel, and someone who goes by the name of free DC. And thank you to our production team as always, Devin, Roger, Reno, and Vanessa and our editor, Jesse Millwood.