I Know Why Everyone Talks About Trump's Diapers | Inside Trump's Head

I get this question all the time. Does Donald Trump where diapers? The follow up question to that is when you are around Donald Trump. Is there a smell here? Is this man, this 300 pound man who stuffs this, you know, grotesque diet? He looks terrible. He's 80 years old, and yet he is. the most dominant presence in the world. I think people look at this guy and say, there are laws of nature here.

There are laws of nature which somehow appear not to apply to him. Does he? Wear diapers or that? Would that would that would surely be a vulnerability. How do you find the shank in the armor. of the strong man? Michael. Joanna. She's leaving. Machine gun Lips is leaving us.

You know, it's actually. She's lasted quite a long time. If you think about it. I mean, that is a hard job. I mean, it's a hard job because the job itself is is standing. in front of all these reporters, just hurling questions at you. And but then dealing with. Trump and you're. you're the person who is is, is in some sense. the person he most doing the job that he most cares about.

And he's monitoring you all of the time constantly. So you're on. She's in. And this is Caroline Lovett that we're talking about. She's in she's in the press room. doing her thing, doing it actually usually pretty well. And he's looking at her, telling her. always how she could have done it better. It's a very pleasant job. What is she going to do now?

So she's been there since the beginning of the second. administration, as you say, she's been phenomenally. effective in peddling the narratives he wants out there. Machine gun. Well, that's her. That's her job. So, Right. But she's been good at it, as you said. I mean, Sean Spicer was in and out at Scaramucci. In and out. I mean, she's really held on for 18 months. Yeah. Scaramucci never actually had that job. He was the communications director. So the press secretary, the person who was standing up in front of the.

the the press every day fielding all of those questions is its own. particular performance oriented job, which again, she did she did very well. And she does this. And Trump has come to like women, young women in that job. Kelly. Jesus, I don't even. Remember McNamee.

Who he liked in that job. and then who went on to. to get a job at Fox. Of course. Well, I'm assuming that that's what Caroline does. I mean, she's just come back after maternity leave, which clearly he wasn't keen on her going on. And I'm I suppose he feels. somewhat abandoned by her, perhaps because she's more interested. in hanging out with her children than she is in hanging out with him.

Yeah, I don't I don't know, I don't have insight into this. I always assume when somebody in politics says they are going to, they are leaving to spend more time with their family. They have been fired. And I do not know. in this instance whether that is remotely true. And matter of fact, I've always understood that he that he he he really he likes her. He yells at her, but he likes her. But having said that, I, you know, never in the history of politics.

has someone wanted to spend more time with their family. Well, I also think that she's she's only done. two briefings, I think, since she's been back. So what I'm hearing is simply that he's. frustrated and angry with her and she's had enough. And I do think there's a period when you've just had. especially a second baby, when you look at them and you think, you know, what am I? What am I doing this for? And the job has to be really good.

If you have a financial alternative, which she does. because she's married to a wealthy guy to take time. Out, I think that is true for normal people. I just want to add a piece of context here. This job is not an important job. I mean, it's important for what it. what it achieves because it's front facing. It's it's giving the administration's position. But you have no particular power in this job. So, I mean,

it used to be once upon a time, Pierre. Salinger, etc., etc., that you were you were a. one of the policy people. And then you would communicate that that policy. that hasn't been true in many, many, many years. You're just the front facing performer. You're told what to do. You're told what to say. And in the case of in the case of Trump, obviously he hires he hires. people who are have no have no particular experience.

I mean, they're very young. She's young. Kelly what's her name was, you know, I don't know, 27. So so it's a thing we see. This person is the front facing person of the administration, but is really other. than for the performative value, irrelevant to the. to the policy making side of the administration. Do you think it's possible that after the leak.

about the plane and the decoy plane and the press. being part of the decoy plane with Marco Rubio as Trump and. and Natalie Harp fled in food cart. one to another plane, do you think that might have pushed her over the edge? I mean, she must have had a lot of flak from the press. for a them not being involved and b them being on the decoy plane,

which was supposedly a target by by the Iranians? I don't think so. I mean, she's been this is certainly nothing nothing new. She's been doing this job for, for now quite some time. There is in this in, in Trump politics, a incredibly clear divide between between the West Wing, the administration and the press in other administrations.

You you know, the press secretary comes to have a kind of. divided loyalty, working with the press all the time. You don't want to lie to them. You don't want you want to maintain your credibility. That has never been true in in Trump politics, you're on. The press is the enemy. You're on the side of the of the Trump Westlink. Here's something most people don't realize. There are companies called data brokers.

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the link in the episode description box. Currently, Scott Jennings, CNNs in-house. Trumper, is apparently a, you know, a lead contender to replace her. As I say, he likes young women in this role, so I mean, that could change. Of course, he has had men. I'm just trying to think,

who did he have men? Well, he had. Sean other than. Sean's Sean Spicer, who came to an unhappy end early on. I think it was entirely women. I mean, he had the woman that went on to be. governor of Arkansas, Sarah Huckabee. Yes, of course. And, and then Kaylee, what's her name? And Kaylee. If you can keep doing that and just I'll just say, what's her name?

You just fill it in. But I don't think. And he came to do this, I like, I like, I like women out there. And he likes women out there because actually he can yell at them better. And they seem to take it in a way that I mean, Scott a spice, Sean. Spicer just would fall apart every time the president would yell at him. Trump would yell at him, fall apart, be a puddle on the floor. What do you mean he would fall apart?

Yeah, I mean, he was I mean, there was the famous, the famous thing where he hid behind the the potted plant. You know, he would. Hit behind a bottle. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, he just he just would get too rattled. So rattled that he couldn't do. He couldn't get out in front of the press and deliver, deliver his lines. in a in a clear and cogent way. Unlike Carolyn Leavitt, who's kind of remarkable, she was a junior person. She really emerged out of that.

just as a junior level person throughout the campaign. Still a junior level, you know, one of one of a. kind of stable of of of people. who would serve in the spokesperson's role well. And she got her job there at the white House as an intern, writing back to people who'd written to the president. So she was writing. endless letters every day and cards back to them from the white House.

But the other person, that's. They they liked, by the way, and that's what Trump really likes. He likes people to come up through his ranks. He doesn't like to bring in outsiders. Well, Scott Jennings has clearly lost a lot of weight. since he's been doing much more CNN. He's grown a beard recently, which I can't believe. Trump likes the beard. I know that Don junior has a beard,

but I don't think that Trump likes facial hair. JD Vance has a beard. True. And do we think that Donald Trump like this vice president? No we don't. I think he likes I think he likes Marco's look better, though not his shoes that are his poor fetus swimming in. But so Scott Jennings has emerged. And also Anna Kelly. Anna Kelly has been Caroline's deputy and is even younger, I think. Yeah, no, I think I would put my money on her, but I don't know.

As I say, in in always important. to remember, it's not an important job. It's not an important job. But you are the front face of the white House. Although. I know, but that doesn't. It doesn't really mean anything. Except you're a face. A pretty in in Trump's a pretty face. He would prefer. Well. And then, you know, the deal seems to be that you do you do a stint as white House.

press spokesperson, and then you go off and get a gig at Fox News. Dana Perino was, I think, spokesperson for George W Bush. She has. A show. No news. Kellyanne Conway constantly. No. And it is. And if you think about it, that is the it's perfect preparation. I mean Fox News all you are is a is a front face. I mean, you don't really you don't really have a job other than that. I mean, you're not a you're a, you're a newsreader.

I think. traditionally when you do a podcast and this is our. we've just passed our first year anniversary of Inside. Trump's head was best to remind people to subscribe. So please subscribe to The Daily Beast. And then we're supposed to lay out our menu. of what we're going to talk about. So we are going to talk about the ballroom and what's happened to that budget, which, you know, as anybody knows, when you're having building.

work done, the budget doubles and the deadline. extends into the into the future, way into the future. And that's obviously going on at the white House. We've got Jeanine Pirro, who was beaten up by Trump after calling. him, calling out his nonsense on why the reflecting pools, bottom why why the American flag? Blue hasn't worked. And she said it was because of shoddy contracting.

We've got her now convening special grand juries in Washington. We've got Putin putting one of Trump's. cabinet members sons on a most wanted list. That is a fascinating story, actually, clue to whose son it was. He used to go out with Taylor Swift. And we've. got well, we've got the most asked question that you get. when you run into people who recognize you and want to know more about Trump.

Why don't you tell us what that is? Because it wasn't the question I was expecting. Earlier this week, I spoke to. Sarah Weiss from our Washington bureau. She was up in New York, and she said that when she's talking. to people who aren't involved in politics at all, the question they most ask her. is about Donald Trump's health. Is he? Well, he looks terrible. What's wrong with him? But you get a different question. It's a related question. It's just the more precise question. Possibly she was being nice because it's not a question that one likes to repeat.

But the question is and I get this question all the time, I mean, it is it it may not be. There are very few conversations. which I am in about Donald Trump, and I can go further than this. There are very few conversations. I ever have that are not about Donald Trump. But then. Then the question comes and it's always it's asked, always in a sincere way,

as people want to know, does Donald Trump where diapers. and it kind of always. it always brings me up short because as though I would know. And then the follow up question to. that is when you are around Donald Trump, is there a smell? And again, this is asked not. in a spirit of mockery, but in a spirit of.

everyone kind of believes this to be true. Now, there is no basis to believe this is true. There is no evidence about this now. And I have not, let's say, the last time. I have not been with Donald Trump since. or been in proximity to Donald Trump since the campaign. so slightly less than two years. So I don't know what's happened in what might have happened in two years.

But certainly up until that point, the last time I was with Donald Trump. there, there was no odor that that surrounded him. So and. So where does it come from? There's people that people's obsession because it's all over social media to. You know, I think that it has to do with this. What is. here, here is this man, this 300 pound man who stuffs this, you know, grotesque.

diet into himself hasn't done, you know, the only exercise he ever gets. is getting is getting in and out of a golf cart. You know, he looks terrible. He's 80 years old. So. And and and yet he is the most dominant presence in the world. He keeps going. He keeps going longer than almost any other politician in our time. He would effectively he has effectively dominated.

presidential politics for ten years. I mean, I mean, it's it's an extraordinary accomplishment. And I think people look at this guy and say. and say, there are laws of nature here. There are laws of nature which, which, which, which somehow appear not to apply to him. So so there must be a vulnerability there. There must be.

And it's true. There must be. So what is it? And obviously the health questions are, are are. now constant in the second administration. And this other thing this does he where diapers. Well that would that would that would sure be a vulnerability. But the other thing is we don't see a vulnerability around Donald Trump. He just keeps going, keeps he is the strong man.

And I think that there's this natural thing, you know. You know, how do you how do you find the, the, the, the chink. in the armor of the strongman? If your accountant said, I've never actually done taxes before, but I'm pretty good at math, you'd probably find someone who has. Because when something really matters, experience isn't a bonus. It's the whole point. That's why so many people turn to Morgan and Morgan,

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Do you. think that the chink in the armor was. Revealed with the leak about the planes that, That he may feel targeted? I mean, he constantly talks about being the world's number one target. He's the most targeted person in the world. Obviously, he's feeling under siege from the Iranians in some way. I mean, the sneaky. No, I think I think the opposite is is true. I think. Yeah.

All right. Yes. He feels that he's the target, but he feels within the. within the white House. This has been described to me. The first thing he talks about, the threats and the. and the plots against him all the time. But the the characterization I got. is that he talks about this with a mixture of. and the quote would be with, with the mixture of fear and pride. So I think there's a combination of things going, going on there.

And he believes that he got elected in 2024. because of the attempt on his life in Butler. So that makes him both. both a target, but also the luckiest man on earth, the luckiest man on earth, because this happened to him. So he got reelected and and all he got was a nick in the ear. And it. may still remain one of his most remarkable moments.

Where from behind the podium, I mean, that was an incredible moment in modern no. And another indication of that lack of of human vulnerability. So I mean, there there he is. He keeps coming back. I mean, he keeps nothing, nothing, nothing. We lays this this man, this gargantuan man. And and I think the thing, the the whole,

the whole plain switcheroo. which, which we now know and we spoke about this, this. the other day and, and I tried to qualify the nature of, of a threat. Just because you call it a threat doesn't mean it's actually. a threat in the way that we would understand. We would understand that a, a real possibility that something bad is going to happen. And in fact, since then, I think, I think.

yesterday the news, the news was, well, this was you know, this was a really, really weak, low level threat. So and a threat that perhaps that, that actually not even. perhaps that, that a threat that did not warrant this, you know, creating this whole decoy, the plane, this the this big drama. The drama of it. Yeah, the drama of it.

And also that it might have been manipulated by the Israelis to to sort of. I mean, American intelligence was less convinced by the threat. than Israeli intelligence. Right. But we're not supposed to take Israeli intelligence over American intelligence. So. So who would have done that? Well, that would have been the president of the United States. That would have been Trump himself. And and it could be because because. as as you say, he he is a streak of paranoia about this.

But it also could be because he's created a story. This is another, another capture, capture the news cycle. And and again going to the the fear point. and the pride point thereafter. Him. So so I have a question for you. related to that theme, which is, you know, he says, or I have to do what the Secret Service says. The Secret Service told me that, you know, I had to do that.

Does he run the secrets? Do they run him? He runs the Secret Service. He runs. I mean, this is a complicated relationship because obviously, and there are actually some, some, some laws. that that directly relate to this, that give the Secret Service. a particular kind of power, but. not really over the president of the United States. Now, the president of the United States does not want to be killed. So.

so he has reason to to. to take the advice of the Secret Service very seriously. But there are two factors here. First. It is he's the president of the United States. He does control the executive branch. Yes, he can countermand the Secret Service. But the other aspect is the Secret Service loves Donald Trump. I mean, I mean, I mean, they have.

they have a, have had a. they tend to have a much cooler relationship with other presidents. This is a a very they have. the Secret Service has has embraced Donald Trump. I mean he has he he he at various points he hires people from the Secret Service. They love the guy. So so so. And they love him because because of things like Butler, Pennsylvania, or.

because their. jobs are much more interesting because there are so many threats for him. I mean, all they just like him because he's kind of. because he stops and talks to them. and he and he knows their names and things, and he's not aloof with them. He doesn't treat them like the help. I think that that's probably true. And then I think there's probably a more basic level. These are all fundamentally, you know, fascist guys there, there, there, there, policemen there.

You know, they're they're they're guys. who Trump has, has. the Trump ethos, which is. an ethos, a police before everyone. ethos, a control top down. ethos works for people who are. who are, you know, a quasi a.

in a quasi military position. So interesting. And of course, he's he's with them all the time. I mean, they have incredible proximity to him, which is sort of exciting. But all but all. Presidents of of course, that that would be true. But there's something more about there's something about about what Donald Trump. stands for and what a paramilitary organization. stands for that has that is obviously, not surprisingly, complimentary.

So I have another question for you to just based off what you said. about the drama of this sort of swapping planes. and the movie like quality that, that, that whole, that whole adventure, the food cart. being smuggled in and out of planes, a subterfuge is which is. And you see this a little bit with rock stars that the tolerance. for the excitement of the job begins to wear off.

And so you need to, add in new layers of excitement. You know, it's like rock stars take drugs or sleep with more and more women. And I wonder if that's also going on with Trump, that what do you do? You're the president for the second time. You're you know, everybody's come and paid, you know, a homage to you. How do you keep it interesting? How do you keep your tolerance for this?

Because you know, what else is there? At a certain point, you've had the gods of Silicon Valley come and pay homage. You've won a second time when no one expected you to do that. How do you keep making it interesting for yourself. When the news cycle, when it dominated headlines? Every headline is a Trump headline. I mean, Trump understands and the people around him. understands what the main operation is. Trump succeeds because he does this every day.

He doesn't get and he succeeds. because he doesn't get tired of it because this is what he needs. I need this, I need to be at all times the center of attention. And if I'm not, then things get bad for everyone around Trump. So what's the story of the day? What is the what is that that, just think we are we are in a reality show.

and we have to maintain our numbers and our ratings. How do we do that? And and I think this probably came up. I mean, if I had to think this, this through, the Israelis came to him. There was this piece of intelligence. The the American intelligence community said, well, yeah, you know, but everything all indications are that. this is that this is that this is at.

best a weak intelligence report. Plus it's coming from the Israelis. who have their own self-interest in pumping this, this story. And we would probably say this is not worth this is not worth acting on. This is certainly not worth taking, taking exceptional means to deal with it. And then the Trump people said, well, wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, it could be a threat. And.

and what would you. Say if it were I can see how this went. If it were a threat, what would we do? Well, we wouldn't want to be on the plane, and we would probably set. up a decoy plane. And then how would we do this? How would he get on to the plane? And this without people knowing? And then there would be a kind of, well, you know, we could use a food cart, we could add the food cart. So I can see how this, this, this took on a life of its own.

as something that would, that would, that would play to the news cycle. for several days or more in the news cycle. Well, and also, of course, it happened, you know, three weeks ago. Now it's no use to anybody if we don't know. Right. Well then this was. Your point, right? On Tuesday he leaked it because there's no point. The subterfuge is an interesting if he can't enjoy the plot.

And then and then there and then there was the. I mean, there's this interesting thing. How could you, you know, and even for Donald Trump, I think you would you would this thought process would a would occur to you. How could you live with yourself if on the decoy plane, the the entire press, all of these people. had to be sacrificed for your safety? I mean, how could you live thinking that knowing that? Well, the answer is you could live with that.

because because, you know, it's not really a threat. I mean, you're you're. something is being. acted out here and no and no reality will interfere with that. So don't worry about it. You don't have to worry about the press. You don't have to worry. about the cabinet members because nothing is going to happen. Well, and also the Marco Rubio of it, that Marco must have seen the intelligence to. and seemed quite happy to sit on the plane with the rest of the staff.

Exactly. Yes, completely. So this is all this? This is just Trump. the showman. Trump always the showman. First, first, first, first, last and always. That's it. And then. And taking Natalie Harp, the human printer, with him and Pete. Hegseth with him. Why did he want health with him? I don't have I don't know, perhaps they just had something to talk about.

And and he needed, he needed. on the plane. But the other thing that happens is every that. that's the politics of being around Donald Trump. So there's enormous jockeying, there's enormous. people elbowing others out of the way. You know, I mean, I recounted that during the campaign when there was a plane, a similar plane switch and a similar decoy situation, and Natalie Harp. was put on the decoy plane and she threw up a monster fit.

And so she had to be moved back to the presidential plane. or the candidate's plane, rather. Okay, so another plot line. How does the plot line of the ballroom, how does that develop? Now, if you're Donald Trump and you're looking at the ballroom, I mean, we discussed him screaming at contract. It's not just the ballroom, it's it's the it's the.

the revamp is $900 million revamp of much of the white House. From the rose garden to the hilar pad to the ballroom. I'm and I'm sure that's a, that's. a modest number, which that's the, that's the, that's the low end of what this is going to cost. And it's, it is what it is. This is central. You know, this is one of those things, this is fixed. in his head and he will it's fixed in his head.

even though this is this is a this is a bad look. I mean, this is popular with nobody. I mean, the the changing the white House, defacing the white House, doing this over without any. on your own say so. No one has approved this. No one has agreed that this is, that this is the right thing to do. This is merely Donald Trump saying, this is my house.

I can do what I want. And he's literally stamps his feet about this. So, so this is not this is not politics. This is personal. I want this because I want it because I want to leave my mark. And this is and I'm going to push this forward. And the Supreme Court is telling me or the or the. or the court is telling me I can't do this, but. I'm going to I'm going to go around them, I'm going to do this anyway.

I'm going to take it to my Supreme Court. And. and it doesn't even matter, because what the courts says in this situation. and in the whole string of others, I'm going to find a workaround. I'm going to do this. Well, he's going to do it. And he also it also seems like he's going to make some money out of doing it, too, because he's got all these private funds for it,

which he solicited from some of America's biggest companies. Amazon, Apple, you name it, he's bypassed Congress. And yet this is actually something that should be financed by. No, I think this is an interesting thing, too, because what you've you've done is. then you create the circumstances for a pretext for raising money. But we don't really know what that that money is being raised for. And the people contributing. that money don't really know what this money is being raised for.

So where all this money is going, I mean, I think it is true that he wants this monument to himself. He wants, he wants, he wants this. to be the Trump White House forevermore. And he will do that by putting up these forever more structures, forever wars, forever structures. And but at the same time, he's looking for money to take with him.

to finance the next stage of his political career. So he's going to leave the white House in in 2029. But he is. he is not going to leave the stage. These these are this is this is this is this is important. And the idea of him, whether he will have a third term, whether. whether he will try that is a naive way to see this question.

He's not going to have a third term, but he is going to. keep himself on the stage, on the national stage. And and he did this once before, obviously, when he was the last time he was sent back to Mar-A-Lago. But this time he will do it. a not in defeat and be having raised, having, having raised in a credible amount of money. to essentially finance and out of power presidential regime.

Right. The court of Mar-A-Lago, at which we're assuming Natalie Harp. will sit as queen, or at least as princess. Extraordinary. It really is extraordinary. I mean, it's the spin off series. You know, white House was season two and season three. is moral Argo, Mar-A-Lago with Natalie. So the other thing I wanted to talk to you about was Jeanine.

Pirro, another woman around Trump who's been yelled at. And actually, I find your comments that that the women take the abuse better than the men do. Really interesting. Todd Blunt seems to have taken a lot of abuse. I mean, your descriptions of Todd Blanche being yelled at, an earlier harbor, being yelled at during Trump's trials. before he got reelected stuck with me. But Todd Blanche seems able to take the abuse. But this sense of Jeanine Pirro.

having been yelled at, Trump saying, well, I may fire her. I don't know what's happening after she called it on the fact that it was. shoddy contract work after a no bid contract had been given. to remake the reflecting pool, and it all went horribly wrong. And then, crazily, the. Washington police. arrested a former Olympian kayaker, accusing him of vandalizing.

the sort of weird rubber thing that they've put into the reflecting pool. And of course, now they've ripped it up. But there seems to be now a workaround for Jeanine Pirro. to humiliate people in Washington. Please explain. Well, it's also a work around for her to keep her job. So what happened here is that all of the people. in, in in her office, in the, in the office of the federal prosecutor in based in.

Washington came to her and said, we we we can't prosecute this case. We we literally are not only are we going to be. laughed out of court, but there can be sanctions against us. I mean, we could be disbarred. We cannot do we cannot do this, and we won't do this. So she was suddenly in, you know, what is she going to do? I mean, she's not going to try the case. Number one, I doubt if she can try a case.

She needs the prosecutors in her office. I remember when Elena Harbor, actually, nobody would do anything in Elena harbor. Had to go into court herself and and was promptly laughed out of court. Made a mockery of. So Jeanine Pirro there was no possibility. she she she was she was in a corner. She had to she had to dismiss this case. And then she had to deal with Donald Trump, who.

immediately threatened to fire her. And and they had to and then she had to come up with something else. What can I give the president? What can I tell the president? What is going to mollify the president? So they've come up with this other. kind of workaround, which is to appoint. a special grand jury, which. in a special grand jury, most grand juries process lots of case cases.

The grand jury sits and there are 20, 30 cases. brought before it should we should we should there be an indictment here? Should there not be an indictment? They just kind of run through them. And their secret. Right. Grand juries, for the most part, the stuff that gets discussed. there remains within. Exactly. So in in a special grand grand jury, it focuses only on one case. And then the grand jury can issue a report,

you know, and the reports are. in, in this and again, this would mollify this. Is all this done to mollify Trump. We can do this. We can go after whoever you want us to go after. And even though we can't prosecute that. case, we can because it's a ridiculous and weak case. And in just no one. But it's like the case against the guy that through the subway sandwich, remember that that they took him to court and the jury laughed. Exactly. But then they can issue a report which which they basically the prosecutors.

basically write themselves and it's a damning report and and and. and will you million someone and that will. Trump might be satisfied with that. But it is also something that just kicks the ball down the road there. And so the the likelihood is there is that there won't be a special grand. jury or it will take months to kind of put together.

And then finally, maybe they'll do something. But by that time Trump would have. No, she will not have been fired. And, and she will still have her job, and Trump will have forgotten. about the reasons that he was going to fire her, although by. then they're probably be other reasons that he might fire her. But this is all in the thing. Just, you know, give him something that today.

will calm him down and worry about tomorrow. Tomorrow. Well, and also potentially is quite a useful tool that you're able. to under a sort of quasi legal status, issue a report about someone. It may well find there isn't any evidence whatsoever. to prosecute someone, but it can still be a vindictive. of indicative report about. That's how it's presented to Trump, right?

I mean, Jerome, Jerome Powell is a great case of this that, you know, Trump did that press conference where he handed Jerome Powell. a bill and said, listen, you're building budget is out of control. And Jerome Powell had to say, well, actually, you know you've got the wrong figures there, etc.. But that's the kind of thing that I think he could use. Especially he could. But it's also the kind of thing that, that, that Pirro can use just to. satisfy them today and tomorrow.

You know, does a special grand jury ever really get appointed? Well, we'll see about that. But but it's interesting that Caroline Levitt is leaving. the white House, that Dave Warrington, David Warrington, who is one of the white House lawyers, is leaving the white House. The, the the tension around the midterms is building. I wonder if people like Jeanine Pirro, who's also been yelled at. and shouted at and humiliated, have enough by the midterms that they're like, you know what?

You're losing power. Rats are leaving a sinking ship. You can find it. You know, I don't. I mean, yes, yes, maybe I have a feeling that, I mean, you have two things that are that are going on. I got to go and find another job. You know, this is this is a sinking ship. I'm tired. I mean, this is these are hard jobs. I'm tired and I'm. I'm leaving. But then the other, other reality is that I'll never get this shot again.

This is. This is power. I am at the I. I am going no higher than this and I want to hold on. And I think she probably does want to hold on. And I think she probably will try. everything to hold on, witness this special grand jury. And I think there's a likelihood that she probably will hold on, not. least of all because she probably have has all kinds of stuff on Donald Trump. I mean, remember, they both come out of New York.

She's she knows where the New York skeletons are buried. Well, there's also a moment and I think Thom Tillis. and Bill Cassidy and John Cornyn, although Cornyn and Cassidy obviously didn't. want to give up their Senate seats and they were primaried by Trump. But there's a moment here, which I think Thom Tillis is looking as if he wants. to see where you can make money off your proximity to the presidency.

Your connections are still valid. You haven't been out of power too long for you to feel relevant, and there's. a sort of maximum earning moment, which they may also be thinking about. I don't know how much money Jeanine Pirro has, but you would think. that she might still have two years left in her at a white shoe. law firm if one would hire him her where she's got genuine. Yeah, I. Think I think capacity. Yeah. Yes, maybe. I mean, I think that she doesn't probably does not exactly have.

that option options that, that, that others would have. I mean she's pretty tainted. So. so you have to measure that. I mean what are your I mean, this is this is just a, you know, a career moment. What are my opportunities? Well, it's also interesting. thinking about Carolyn Levitt because what a her career opportunities. Now she ran for Congress in New Hampshire. She didn't get elected. So she's a failed Republican.

Yeah. Well, I mean, that's I mean I mean, I don't think a failed candidate is. is not necessarily actually that's sort of in a way a plus. You have experience as as running for office. You have name recognition in where you have run before. Now she's internationally famous. Sarah Huckabee parlayed. that job into being the governor of Arkansas.

I mean, if Caroline Leavitt wants an elected position, she's in a much better place to to. to get that and to pursue that than she was before. So she. Know no doubt. And that's not that wasn't the point I was going to make. The point I was going to make was that she has two choices. She can either run for elected office for a Republican, or she can go to Fox News. What she can't do is the kind of move that people.

made from the Obama, or even the Biden. administration's, where you go into tech and make a lot of money. Someone like Jay Carney, who is a spokesman for Obama and then went to be, you know, in charge of. press at Amazon and and make serious money. I well, I don't know. I mean, it depends what what you consider serious money, of course. Well, more money than you would make as a Republican Congress. Well yeah. But that's those are those are different aspirations.

And could Caroline Levitt make a lot of money? I think that the answer is absolutely yes. There are, there are. There are Trump people. all over the tech and media business now. So if you want it, she wanted to go to be this to be a. into a technology company in a.

governmental PR role. I'm sure she could. Really I find that really unlikely. And I think workers in some of those companies would revolt. I mean, I have a friend that went out with Hope Hicks. He's a Hollywood producer, and he he reached the point where he said. the reason they split up was because his friends wouldn't. have dinner with him, because he they just didn't want to hang out with someone. Well, that was. I mean, well, I mean, she went out to she worked for Murdoch.

I mean, she had a lot of problems there, but. but now she's, you know, with somebody from Goldman, etc., etc.. And. But I don't see actually I disagree with you. I first of all, those companies are littered. with people who worked for Obama and who worked for Biden. And I don't think those companies can hire. I think I think you're completely, completely naive. about what is going on with those companies now.

And it also, you know, this is all event driven. I mean, what happens in the in the midterms, what what it looks like. toward 2028, what do they want to achieve. in the short term from this administration? I mean, you have you. Have the way they achieve things in this administration is just. it's pay for play, right? You just make it right. It's not levy on your staff. You know nothing. I love you dearly, but you know nothing about how this this this works.

You can't just it's like getting into college, you know? What? Do you just write a check to Harvard? No, you got to go. It's a it's a it's a. this is a. giving money is a complicated process actually. You know, and as it happens, you know, the there are. there are a lot of Trump people now in the on the Paramount. payroll in in. Because the Paramount deal is relevant now. But this isn't any deal you are trying to do now.

You want you want Trumpers on your payroll. So and everybody is trying to do deals and everybody will be rushing. to do deals in the in the final two years of the Trump administration. Yes. Could Caroline Levitt make a tens of millions. if not $100 million in in if she wanted to? I think she probably could. I mean, my suspicion is that she wants to have a political career, but who knows?

Well, she'd certainly be good at a political career. She's learned how to manipulate people. Well, we'll we'll stay tuned and we'll watch this. But my experience of having spent some time actually. very close to various tech companies is they are riddled with Obama and Biden. Well, that may be true, but that doesn't that doesn't change. the fact that they have to do deals in the with the. with the Trump government in the during the Trump era.

And you're not in Biden people and. and Obama people are not going to be able to do that. They actually bring literally nothing to the table because they don't even know. they they have no idea who the Trump people are. Many of these people have never spoken to Trump person. They don't want to speak to Trump people. And obviously the leaders of these companies have become Trump people. So,

you know. Well, they've become Trump people until they're no longer Trump people. because there's a new there's a new index of power. Right. And that will change after the after the, you know, after the midterms. That hasn't changed yet. We are still here. We are in the right in the peak of Trump power. And and if you want a deal, your Biden and and Obama friends in. the tech industry are not going to help you get that deal done.

You know how they help you get the deal done. They write the checks. I don't know what that means. It means they write the checks for the ballroom. It means they write the checks for whatever. Oh, yeah. Well. Pet project is. Yes, yes, we know that. But as I say, this is not this is not, you know, you you hire people. You need the person to tell you to who to write the check to. You need the you need the follow up here.

You need checks. Checks in themselves are are one part of it. But you need you need a. you need someone to follow that the trail of the money. Shepherd your money. Otherwise believe me, they'll take your money and they won't give you what you want. All right. Can we move on, please? To the son of the cabinet minister. An old friend of yours, I believe, who's now been put on.

Putin's most wanted international list. You have to tell me about this story, because this is a. this is a Daily Beast story. So you tell me about it. This is this is a story about Conor Kennedy, who is the son of Robert Kennedy, junior. still junior at 72, who became a mercenary for Ukraine.

He is the former boyfriend of Taylor Swift, was moved by the Ukrainian situation, went off to Ukraine. to work on the front lines for a bit, came back pretty quickly and is now on. the international wanted list, apparently put there by Putin himself. Pool. Well, I don't know if that's. Well, I don't know if that's cool for Conor Kennedy, but it's a bizarre.

it's such a bizarre turn. I it does seem cool for. I mean, I don't know what that means to be on this on this wanted list. What does it. Well, I think it means you can't go to Russia. Well, yes. Which you probably wasn't planning to do. But Russia has methods. to make people, you know, fall out of windows. I don't think I would want to be on Russia's international most wanted list.

I think I would, I would like to be. You know, I. Mean, I think it's a point that that would be a point of pride. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think to. to be singled out as an enemy of, of, of Vladimir Putin and, and Russia, I think would be. a, I think that's what we should all should be shouldn't we. Well, I'm sure it's going to make him even more of a man magnet.

I think you want to be a stealth enemy. I don't think you want them to know that you're doing it. I think you want to be under the radar. Especially when dealing with Russia. I just know. Well, I don't know. Sometimes you got to stand up, man. Come on. Michael Wolf. All right. We will be back on Saturday with more. With more. We'll be back with much more. Much more.

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