I Know Why Desperate Trump Is in Free Fall | The Daily Beast Podcast

The word for this in politics is free fall. This guy is in uncharted territory. The price of energy is up. The price of food is up. Job production in the United States is an allows place. Trump and his billionaire buddies are saying to the key. parts of their base will set up an autocracy. You'll get to keep your jobs and will advance your racist, white. nationalist agenda if you just allow us to keep stealing money.

and enrich ourselves and pass. tax bills that help billionaires and screw everybody else. And that's the deal. Racism for grift. Welcome to this podcast. I'm shocked. I'm executive editor of the Daily Beast. I am privileged to be in the chair for Johanna Calls. We have got a great guest coming up. It is the indispensable and inimitable.

global affairs columnist for The Daily Beast, David Rothkopf. Before we get into the show, please take a moment, share this podcast. with your friends and invite them to subscribe to our YouTube channel. We are closing in on 700,000 followers. With your help, we can get a million. And it sounds to everyone who has subscribed. and been part of the deal with this family that we have such amazing guests, so. please help us spread the word no. David Rothkopf is our chief global. affairs columnist, and we've got so much to talk about with him.

But one thing I will just tease. he has a new nickname or a new insult from the white House. David, thank you for joining us. David Rothkopf, welcome back. It's Monday. It's perfect day to discuss. Well, there's so many things we could discuss. Let's talk about some pulling that we have been seeing in the last couple of days. And this morning it was a pretty disastrous poll for Donald Trump. His too bad his approval.

in the New York Times Siena pool, which I should say is regarded. as one of the absolute gold standard of polls, is down to 37%. That's that's not a lot, is it? And it's not. It's a pattern. Well, yeah. I mean it's it's bad though. I mean the results in this poll are on the cost. of living 69% disapproved.

underwater, 42% on the war in Iran, 65% disapprove underwater, 34%. on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, 62% disapprove underwater, 31%. on the economy, 64% disapprove. underwater, 31% on immigration. His strong suit, his best subject in school, 56% disapprove underwater 15%. and overall on his job as president.

As you say, only 37% approved, 59% disapprove. That's underwater, 22%. The word for this in politics is freefall. This guy is in uncharted territory, and he is. He's got nothing. Everything that he's trying. I'm going to go to China. I'm going to distract with that. I'm going to talk about my ballroom. I'm going to go and build a golden statue. I'm going to do this.

I bet nothing's working for Donald Trump. And. it's a political disaster scene. What I find kind of weird and maybe, Hugh, you have some insight into this. as a kind of de Tocqueville, like a visitor from foreign shores. to America, is why. the Republicans are still lining up with this dude, because we did have, you know, a primary over the weekend.

in which. doctor Bill Cassidy lost. because Trump hates him and some pro-Trump people did better. And that's like in Indiana. And like, like this guy is like an anvil around the neck of the Republican Party. And yet they're like, oh yes, sir, boss, we're in line. We're doing whatever you say. What is that about? Well, I wish, I wish I knew first of all I'd have published a much more. I'd have published a successful book, like to talk.

Phil did, and I would. I would have things named after me as well. But we're going to have a big test. on Tuesday of this question over the Republican Party and Trump, because Thomas Massie, who has been a consistent thorn in Trump's. side over the Epstein files, is fighting a primary in there in his. in his district of Kentucky against a very strongly endorsed Trump candidate.

And this question is going to be. this is a referendum really on where's the Republican Party. No. Well, yeah, it's you know, I do. I do think we need to caution everybody here, the New York Times, the NFL is correct. Trump is opposed on most issues by a supermajority of Americans, by. two thirds of Americans, on most issues, on most of his policy initiatives. So he is in bad shape. What we're seeing in primaries, of course, is the most.

active Republican voters and what their view is. But they have demonstrated on a regular basis. that they are out of step with the rest of the country. And so whether Massie wins or loses, Cassidy wins or loses. The Indiana people win or they lose. This is still only the primaries, and they've got to get. to the general election. And they got some problems between now and the general election, which is nothing.

Looks like it's going to get better. We are no closer to solving the war in Iran. The price of energy is up, the price of food is up. The job production in the United States is in a lousy place. There was just a poll last week in which 70% of Americans. don't believe it's likely that they will ever own a home. This country is being squeezed. And so, you know, to the Republicans and to MAGA, enjoy.

this last moment of thinking what you're doing works. And because I think if the general public gets to vote. and of course, that there is an if there you use the what if. Yeah, I think pointedly I mean, I think I think we're sort of stripped. down to core MAGA proposition. right now and, and what that is, is. Trump and his billionaire buddies.

or saying to the key parts of their base. will protect you because we'll. destroy democracy, will set up an autopsy. You'll get to keep your jobs and will advance your racist, white nationalist agenda if you just allow us to keep. stealing money and enrich ourselves. and pass tax bills that help billionaires and screw everybody else.

And that's the deal. Racism for grift. That's the core proposition of the Trump era. authoritarianism for wholesale corruption. That's the exchange that's taking place. Well, I talk let's talk about what many people are going to. I think quite, you know, sort of justifiably be talking. about in terms of grift, because as we're recording this,

Trump has told a court. this effect, this is a kind of complicated story. Trump, as a private individual, has been suing the IRS over the leak. of his tax returns, and he had been claiming $10 billion in damages. He had kind of difficulty in the courtroom because the judge, Kathleen Williams, a federal judge down in Miami, pointed out that.

he was suing effectively himself, that. the private individual was suing the the executive branch. The president is, in his own view, the executive branch, problematic. Anyway, he's agreed to drop this $10 billion. And it appears that. the agreement on the table that he has made with himself. is for a $1.7 billion fund, which will go to people. who he who are described as being victims of the Biden Justice Department.

So it's it's it seems like a very naked. I think, you know, people used to call this a slush fund. Once you're up to 1.7 billion, slush seems a bit of a bit of a minimization, but this looks like a it looks like Supermarket. Sweep or something going round the aisle and getting the money. Well, I just I just think we need to appreciate the moment that we're living in.

because Trump promised a golden age and we're getting one. This is a golden age of corruption in the United States, and Donald Trump is a corruption genius. Every single day he wakes up, does he think about us? The well-being of the United States, the well-being of the planet, the future of our kids? No. But you know why? Give him a break? Because what he's really thinking about is new ways to monetize being president.

He'll cell phones, he'll sell. watches, he'll sell paraphernalia from West Palm Beach Airport. He will do deals with foreign governments. He will do deals so his sons cash in on contracts at the Defense Department. He will build monuments to himself. He will come up with new ways to steal money every damn day.

And this this was pretty bold. Launching a war, a lawsuit against himself, being on both sides of the lawsuit that in trying. to get $10 billion out of his the US government to give to himself. That was bold. The the the court the judge called him on it. And so now, as many expected, he is withdrawn the lawsuit. But we don't know the terms of the settlement. If it is, in fact, $1.67 billion to go to his allies.

First of all, typically when he does things like that, it never goes to where he says it's going right. It's it ends up in his pocket, somebody else's pocket, convert it into something else. So that's that's part of it. But another part of the settlement that was floated last week. And typically when the white House floats this stuff, they're trying to sort of. prepare the public for the deal. Was that his past audits by the IRS would be dropped,

and they would agree never to audit him or his kids again. Oh, and we should point out, by the way, he's suing over the leak of his tax returns. Every previous president for many, many years had given us their tax returns. without without, you know, needing to have them leaked. So the whole premise of this was based on his failure and in fact, his failure to meet his own promise to hand over his tax returns.

Well, he did say was going to hand them over when his audit was over. I know his audit appear. It's possible the settlement involves his audit being over. So, hey, maybe we're going to see the tax return. As you know here, you are a legal genius, and I want to see you at the next white House press conference with. I assume you have credentials sitting in the front row going, okay, you said you'd give us the tax returns when the audits over. There's not going to be an audit. When do we get to see the tax returns? It would be a beautiful, beautiful moment.

It would be. It would be I mean it's it is a very apt question actually. We're going to come later. Later on in this podcast we do want to talk about the white House press office. Yeah. Okay. Why do you want to wait? Why don't you just bring it up now, Hugh? Well, I think I was good to say it's worth waiting for, but let me let me read you the words of Stephen Chung. The white House director of communications, has.

has previously insulted you just to people twice. Twice, twice previously insulted you as a new name nerd. And then you were upgraded to a cock. You know how this got. folks with the Scottish accent we have? We've got to be a little clear what he said was, okay, I did it. See you, C.K., see? You see? Yeah. Thank you. And and anybody in the comments.

I am proud of my Scottish accent, but I am aware there are some words. that might you might need some clarity, and that is that I have no shame in that. Anyway, Steven Chung, whose picture we now have on screen, says of David Rothkopf, David Rothkopf, please pretend as a foreign policy expert, but in reality, he's just a loser. who is jealous of President Trump and the rest of the administration. We do consequential work while he sobs in front of the computer screen.

with an empty tissue box to catch his tears of sorrow. And we will. We will make those words available. on screen for those who who have missed because they're hearing David Rothkopf. sobbing, his tears of sorrow. That's so hurtful, Stephen. We meant so much to each other. We've spent so many great hours together. I've never met you and I don't want to meet you. But I have to say, there are things I am insecure about.

Okay? There are plenty of them. I'm a Jewish guy from new Jersey. Basically, all I have are things that I meant to care about. But the one thing I'm not insecure about is being a foreign policy expert. At 30 years in having been the editor of Foreign Policy magazine, having had a senior job as an official in the US government. dealing with international issues, having been the managing director. of Kissinger, I know it was a mistake, but I was, you know, in.

my office was next door to Henry Kissinger office, having written a bunch of books, having taught foreign policy at not at Columbia for many years, but also a Georgetown and at Johns Hopkins School of International. There are a lot of things I'm not, but I actually do know something about foreign policy. Steven. Sorry. Sorry to say that. Sorry to sound defensive. You really did cut me to the quick. And it really does hurt me.

But on the other hand, and look at it from this perspective, Hugh, not most administrations don't devote this kind of personal attention. to each of us. Well, I was going to say, actually, that, you know, harmful as these comments may have been, it's not. really what you think the business of government is, is to spend. time thinking up individual insults for for people who. Well, I mean, there's 300 and the 350 odd million Americans.

I'm one of the lucky ones, and you are one of the lucky ones. But this is not the business of government, is it? Well, you know, I mean, there is a theory. that the director of communications at the white House. is supposed to be focused on communications, getting the word out. to the American people of things like, well, why are we fighting this war? What actually got done on that China trip? Or what is the president's settlement on this deal.

that he's cut with himself on the IRS? Or when will we see the president's tax returns? Or when will they release the Epstein files? But you see, they don't like to do that stuff. because it's the least transparent administration in American history. It's the most oriented towards obfuscation. and obstruction of justice that has ever existed. They like to focus on two things, and one is going after the press head on.

And moments before he, you know, he put out this tweet. You know, he screamed at David Sanger on the plane. coming back from China and said he was a traitor. because this was Trump, by the way, screamed at him, said he was a traitor. for not revealing the truth about Trump's great military victory in Iran. He screams at poor Caitlin Collins and some of these other journalists. on a regular basis. What I don't understand, if we can be serious about this.

for a second, is I know why I take it I wasn't in the room with the guy. If the guy said that to me, I would respond. But most of these journalists, when the president says this to them. or he abuses them, they take it and they then don't get together and respond. Where is the white House Correspondents Association? Why did they allow them to do this? Why don't they? I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about, you know, all these other real life reporters.

who are, you know, subject to attack. It's all a part of a big plan, however. And the big plan. is to create as much space as possible for the lies of the president. and the lies of the president's supporters by clearing away. what they consider to be the distractions and underbrush of facts and truth. And that's why they are the most anti-free.

press administration that we have ever seen. They have been the most egregious in terms. of their attacks on the First Amendment that we have ever seen. But, you know, something? You if you allow me to change the subject, another element of the First Amendment. has to do with no establishment of a religion. I was very much hoping we would get to this because this has been. an extraordinary weekend and.

extraordinary weekend in Washington. And I know you you're you're down there. in in the center of the swamp, soaking it all in here at the swamp. And this weekend in Washington. was, well, just again, it's 250 years of the United States, and there are various events. that are going to have been planned to celebrate this, this. if I said that. Right, the sin. of the United States. But Sunday was quite a remarkable event.

Yeah. Well, because for a long time, right wing evangelical Christians. have been trying to gain access and power. and control over the US government, and they've been quite successful. They've done it in a state basis. And, you know, they've now got some of their people and key positions in the government. You know, Pete Hegseth being an example, Mike Johnson.

as speaker of the House being another example. And because they finally got this and because Trump's base. is falling away everywhere except these. supposedly holy people, they actually got the white. House to co-sponsor with them. A. Evangelical. tribute to America. And and something that essentially said, you know,

America was founded by four and of people. who share their religious views, who, you know, love Jesus and view. Jesus in the way that they do and. made remarks by video there. Trump, of course, also appeared by video because he was golfing. And in fact, we have the clip.

It's worth it's worth watching. I was good to see that. It's it's the words of Trump. In fact, the word of Trump and the Lord appeared to Solomon by night. and said to him, I have heard your prayer and have chosen this place. for myself for a house of sacrifice. If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts. to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people,

if my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways. Then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. Now by I shall be open, and my ears. attempt to the prayer that is made in this place. So just just to point out that sounds like a threat to me.

But there was there was a lot of sniffing, and there's a lot of what. our technical production staff tell me are called jump cuts, where you are slicing things together because the reading didn't quite go right. Now, presumably it's also if there is a just God somewhere. They had to do jump cuts every time a lightning bolt nearly hit him. from heaven. Because, you know, this is the most ungodly man ever.

I'm surprised he didn't modify it because, you know, and he said, and I command you to build upon this place. I was pretty sure he was about to say a ballroom, a ballroom, in fact, there was. there was a preacher who celebrated that it taken 200 years. for the Lord to or 250 years for the Lord to bring along a man who would build. this ballroom in the white House, which I don't know what I. Yeah. How a fucking Lilya, you know, praise, praise,

praise be to the God of boondoggles and bad taste. But just this. I think the really serious point here is about the out of touch of this, right? This event was supposedly let's just let's just be, you know, just be clear, by the way, I don't think either I or David. are wanting to attack the idea of religion. You know, we've talked about being you're not you're not certainly. Well, but people people of faith have a stake in the country.

Sure. But this was a micro focused. group of people and not even that many turned up. But it was all about the messaging for one, really, you know, sort of absolutely core group of the Trump base. It was not a celebration of 250 years. And this this is kind of goes to the whole the out of touch point. Well, I think it goes to a different point. Also, it's almost as if the Trump administration is celebrating.

the 250th anniversary of the founding of this country. by serially attacking the principles. on which it was founded, one by one. One of them is separation of church and state. Another of them is freedom of speech. Another that they've attacked earlier this year is freedom of assembly.

The ability of people to vote. The other elements of the Constitution, including the right to due process, has also been attacked by them. This year, they've gone. after some of the amendments that came in the course of the past. 250 years, like the 14th amendment right, and so forth. So one by one, rather than celebrating. the achievements of this country by saying, we.

began with high. aspirations and we will seek to go further, embrace. more people, strengthen our country, fulfill the ideals. that underlay the founding of America. We have a very cynical carving away of these principles, and I think on this principle of separation of church and state, they're not that interested in that. If Donald Trump thought he could create. a national religion and it would help him stay in office, he'd do it.

Pete, for sure would do it. Marco Rubio ran his whole campaigns. around posting Bible verses. They love mixing these two things together. because they think it makes them. beyond criticism. That criticism of them becomes, you know, criticism of God. You know, interestingly,

this is the administration that said. the pope should stay out of politics. And yet they are bringing. evangelical pastors into politics in a wholesale way. And that underscores the point as well. They're not for all religions. They don't much like Catholics. They don't much like Jews or Buddhists or people. who are of Hindu extraction, or people who are atheists or agnostic. They like people who will vote for them and are willing.

to give them a little bit of an edge, a little bit of a lift. by associating their sect with this government. But, you know, this is this is what happens in. in other authoritarian states where people. who want to remain in power. find groups that will support them no matter what. In exchange for a little bit of a sop like,

you know, this kind of an event on the National Mall, it's it's gross. And it is completely Khatri to the principles. in which this country is founded, just to kind of wait. Oh, as well, focusing on this micro group or this, this. the evangelical group, it takes us back to the polling point. The polls say that there is overwhelming. distrust, dislike, disapproval.

of the policies and actions of of Trump and his administration. So he's he seems to be focusing. on what this one group that that will go along with it. But how long does that last for? Donald Trump doesn't believe in anything. He has no ideology except for the ideology of Donald Trump, and he is willing to treat everything as a transaction. In fact, I think I misstated that he can only treat things as transactions.

That's the only way he knows how to view the world. And so what he is doing is. he is finding groups that will support him, and he will give them whatever they want in exchange. So, for example, during the campaign, you remember when he said to and gas. execs, give me $1 billion, I will give you all the policy. That you want to support your stuff.

That's what he's doing to other people. Give money. He they give money to him. He gives them pardons. He gives them. appointments in the government. He gives them the kind of deals that they want. And for some of these groups, he'll say, well, in exchange for supporting me, in exchange for supporting the Republican Party, in exchange. for supporting some of the ways that we are attacking the right. to vote in America or other fundamental rights.

If you support me, I will then lift you up and embrace you. in a way that no other administration in U.S. history would. And Trump's been extraordinary on this. Think about how many times we've seen pastors in the Oval Office. laying on hands, you know, treating him as though he was a Christlike figure. And then, of course, we have him in his social media. depicting himself as a Christ like figure.

And that would be blasphemy. Except to these groups. It's like he's sending them a message, which is, I'm with your program, you know, I'm your golden calf. Worship me and I will give you whatever you want. And the in fact, excused the worship of a golden Trump statue, which looked like a straightforward, you know, that commandments. Pretty simple. I would have thought.

about having no idols before me. That one? Yeah. That one, that one. That seemed like a simple breach, but apparently that was okay. According to some of the evangelicals said, no, no, no, they're just showing. They're just showing respect. Also, technically wasn't a gold statue. because it was only gold plated, which kind of, you know, on brand. But and, and Steven Chung is going to come after you.

He'll I didn't I fear I am nowhere near. you on the on the Steven Chung on. that I will say. he has described our great reporters as, among other things, glue. sniffing and glue sniffers and crackheads. and what didn't, didn't. Carolyn Leavitt say something like, you know, the only way she can survive is. if she doesn't think about the Daily Beast when she goes home.

Yes. And. obviously she's on maternity leave. But what why why is The Daily Beast getting to these people. in a way that other people. don't seem to be getting to them, like, well, what's eating at them? So I do. I actually have a slight theory and I don't want sound too self-important. And by the way, I am. As everybody will know, I'm just stepped in for Johanna. This is not a coup. This is not a team, Joanna. She will be back. But I think one of the things is that we, and especially you, David,

have been willing to say no, I'm going to refer you as Temu Joanna from now on. But yeah. Go on. And we have been willing to speak about Trump's. physical and mental state in a way that others have not. And I give a huge amount. And your back catalog on this is fantastic. Well, I think no one, no one in America has done more. to make aware America aware of Donald Trump's cancels than you have.

You know, you were going to win a Pulitzer Prize. for canceled journalism, and you're going to deserve it. Only I represent a team here. We have reporters who covers this, but we have been willing to talk about this. And I just I say that because there's a very long and I will say excellent piece. in The Atlantic today by Jonathan Lemire, who is also on morning Jewel. And it's headlined A Different Kind of Feeding. President Joe Biden became quieter.

Donald Trump grows even louder. And it is a list of the many, many things that we have observed in The Daily Beast. We've been willing to report on about falling asleep, about the can cause, about the swollen, his swollen, his swollen ankles, about gnarly hands, his hands, about the bruises, about the. the deranged midnight posting sprees. There is finally a willingness to talk about this. And I think if I'm going to give us a tiny bit of credit,

the white House has been very concerned about this, because this underlies. everything about this presidency that Donald Trump is 79, he's going to be 80, and that his physical and mental state is something that the country can see. There are legitimate questions over and we are willing to answer. ask those questions, which yeah, no, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I agree. And, you know, we started looking at the polling data, and the polling data says politically he's in freefall. But physically and mentally he's also in freefall.

And we saw this in China. He can't stay awake. He couldn't he could barely stand up next to she Jinping. He is shrinking. He is lashing out at people. He lashed out at people in the plane. And I think, you know, there is something to this. You know, when people get older and they begin to decline. in different ways, and the way Joe Biden. began his decline, obvious to all of us. was, you know, slowing down, becoming a little bit more quiet,

becoming a little bit less able to remember things or to communicate. As he had for most of his life, Donald Trump is showing signs of something else. And that is that when people go into dementia, they lose the ability to filter what they're going to say. They lash out at people. And that's what we're starting to see from this guy. And I think a lot of people in the white House,

and I've talked to people in the white House, I've talked to people on Capitol Hill. I think a lot of people are worried because these trends don't get reversed, and they're worried that over the course of the next several months, you're going to see a more unhinged Donald Trump, a more angry Donald Trump, a more unfiltered Donald Trump, a more unfit to be President Donald Trump, simply.

because the clock is ticking, he is declining. And this is all happening at the same time that he's in political freefall. And so he's desperate. He's desperate. He's desperate to hold on to being the guy he used to be. He's desperate to hold on to power. He's desperate to keep away the investigations and the impeachments. and the potential convictions that are lurking out there. And he's desperate, you know, not to lose himself as a human being.

And all of these I mean, it is Shakespearean. It's like Greek tragedy. This is the kind of dramatic story of a leader that that, you know, you could have expected in, in literature. The sad reality is we have to live through it. I'm trying not to end on a bad note, and I don't know it, but we could not ask for a better person to live through it with. We could not. ask for somebody who crying more tears of sorrow.

Obviously. That's why that my tissue box is empty. Because. Because we will. We will send you. And I'm jealous. I wish I were like Stephen Chung. Speaking of Steven Chung, have you looked at his candles? Because I got to tell you, I got to tell you whatever cancels. Donald Trump has going on, I'm willing to bet you Stephen Chung has a worse. kanko action going on, which is why he always wears extremely long pants. Go look it up.

as information for everybody to use. David, thank you for joining us. And thank you for taking that abuse from the white House. It's my pleasure. It's my privilege. My family is prouder of me, and I hope you too are prouder of Mayhew. We absolutely are. Thank you for being with us. What a. pleasure to speak to David Rothkopf, as it always is. You can read his columns on The Daily Beast. Com. I just want to say a personal wealth of thanks.

Many of you have sent messages of support for Joanna. I know she is feeling all your support and some of you have even said. messages support from me. I'm merely a stand in, but who is not a stand in a brilliant. production staff Ryan Murray, Rachel Paso, Heather Pissarro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.