I Know Which Goon Trump Will Turn on Next: Wolff | Inside Trump's Head

I think he's going to fire Marco Rubio. I mean, Rubio has now become. the standout figure in this administration. When you become the contrast gainer against Donald Trump. You're finished. When it begins to look like you are the person who is really in charge. You're done. You cannot do this around Donald Trump. He just won't let you. He'll kill you. Just chop off your head.

Hi, I'm Michael Wolff. Where? I'm here with you. Dockerty. Joanna Coles is, I think, as most of you know, in in the UK, in Yorkshire, dealing with her, with her ailing mother. So you was filling in today and Hugh has just returned. from the UK where so.

And handicap. the Prime Minister. How long does he have. Does he have any time left at all? I think very little. I think he's probably still prime minister while people are listening to this, but. not for very much longer. Many of his ministers are resigning and urging him to go, so there will be some sort of reckoning, I think, within the next few days. And so a few days, 24 hours,

72 hours, 48 hours. What do you think? I would go for 78 hours. But. But don't go down Polly Market yet. 72 hours. His rival, Andy Burnham, has been spotted on a train. A moment like Lenin in 1917. from the Finland Station. So, in other words. But let's let's get. I want to pin you down on this. He's done.

Oh, I don't think there's any doubt. No, he is over. He is toast. Put a fork in him. It's only a matter of the exact timing. if Keir Starmer is about to go. I have a theory on. whose neck is also on the block. Oh, I think and there's, there's been. there's been a lot of talk recently. about about who does who does Trump favor.

Marco Rubio or JD Vance for the Republican nomination in in 2028? I think he calls them the kids or something. And he's playing them off against one even another. On on Monday night at the white House, he asked the audience who did the. who did they prefer? And was going by a sort of volume test. So. Yeah. No. You know, and so here is. so I have watched Trump operate. now for way, way too long, ten years.

in which in which Donald Trump has dominated my life. And I think that I've gotten pretty good at. because he does the same thing over and over and over again, pretty good at being able to chart the Donald Trump course. I think he's going to fire Marco Rubio. I mean, Rubio has now become. the standout figure in this administration. I mean, this is against a lineup of of.

what what do we call these these. these people, the sink of fans and no accounts. I was wrong. And I mean, everything. you watch on your Instagram Alex and as slicks oh my god. Of course you have to be an ass like. and leaving only Marco Rubio. And it doesn't really matter what you think of his of of his politics,

leaving him as the only guy who seems to show up. for work every day and to sit down at a desk. and to be capable of addressing what's on his desk at any given time. And that's now actually spread as a kind of meme of of Marco Rubio. taking all jobs in this, in this administration. We've all seen the memes. He was even those even a meme should say that was circulating. in the UK of Marco Rubio becoming the British prime minister.

That's how well known this meme is, that it has crossed crossed oceans. Okay, this is fatal in Trump world. This is absolutely fatal when it. when you when you become the contrast gainer against Donald Trump, you're finished when it begins to look like. you are the person who is really in charge. You're done.

I remember in the first administration, when Steve Bannon. appeared on the on the cover of time magazine. Yes. President Bannon or. Or was it Trump's brain? At any rate, the message was was clear. And at that moment, and even Bannon recognized at that moment. that his his fate was written that and you obviously know far. better than I do, but Bannon had really know him far better than everybody.

Well, that's it's is that a boost. You know, it's you know just part of my circle of the people. So somehow I have come to know, for better or worse, I had tried to stay behind the scenes quite effectively for a while, hadn't he? He'd been reluctant about posing for photos. He hadn't really gone down that road. But the opposite here. Yeah, the opposite with with Rubio. He's deejaying. He's doing the he's doing the questions at the podium.

He's everywhere. No. And you you cannot do this around Donald Trump. He just won't let you. He'll kill you. Just chop off your head. So the fact that Rubio has, has put himself out there. as the guy in charge, President Rubio is. I've I. had to cap Starmer and I'll stand by 72 hours. Can you. And that's because we're in a little softer situation.

for months, four months, four months. would take us right up to the midterms. You know, I think we will see a lot of action. just before the midterms because they're going to be panicked. And so it is going to be and he is not going to want. if the two things he's not going to if if they do. well in the midterms, he doesn't want anyone else to claim credit for that.

And and prior to the midterms in trying. to improve their position, he's going to he's going to make changes. He's going to do things. He's going to look to change the subject. And Marco Rubio is going to get his head. chopped off with a new meme of Marco without a head on this. On the white House author. You saw it here first. Yeah. Have you considered that your private info, like your home address and phone number, is likely exposed online right now?

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description box. Marco Rubio is supposed to be in charge of foreign and foreign policy. National security policy. So that's all about one thing, really, isn't it? Yeah, no. And it's you know, we are he's going to blame. Marco Rubio is going to is going to be blamed for Iran. Absolutely. I mean, the real reason is that that. Marco Rubio is upstaging Donald Trump. But the pretext will be Iran, where they're going to need somebody.

Somebody is going to have to take the blame for for Iran. It's not going to be Donald Trump who deserves the blame. And let's come back. We're at this really interesting moment in. in the. Iranian, do we call it diplomacy in the war? Let's just listen. We're at war with this, with with the Iranians. We're also at war with the meaning of war. So. so the the Iranians came back.

the other day with, with a, with a negotiating position, which was a straightforward here's a mud in your eye. I mean, essentially they said to Donald Trump, remember, and Donald Trump has now has brought us to the point of. of the Iranians have to capitulate because they have been obliterated, because they have nothing left, because we have all of the power. And they came back and they said, said, yes, we'll come to a peace agreement.

with you if you give us literally everything we want. So nothing. And so Donald Trump, I mean, it's essentially essentially they've reversed the roles here. They are in the Trumpian role. a completely they feel they have the, the the freedom and the ability and, and are happy in the arrogance to,

to say to to to be absolutely unreasonable. It might, it might. Well saying we got figures. We were recording this on Tuesday morning and there were devastating figures. this morning about inflation. The consumer price index has hit 3.8%. It's that's greater than the average wage gains. So people are absolutely not feeling as well off. And that's all because of one thing. The price of the price of fuel. No. In the the I mean the inflation is a key is a key measure.

Donald Trump became the president in 2024 largely because of inflation. That was that was the issue. So so we are back again in the Iranians understand. the Iranians understand how much pressure Donald Trump. is, is under the corner that he is in. and largely the corner that he's in, in. Well, I actually you can go down the list of things from, from the basic.

the basic health of the economy to the, to the, to. the cruelty, the ice cruelty. to, to almost every. aspect of, of of the issues in front of this administration. But of course, the war, the war is of his own making. And you can go back and look at this and just everything is a blunder, his failure or failure to consult, his failure. to appreciate that the Strait of Hormuz was a.

was a strangled point which the Iranians could, could, could grasp. His his his failure to understand. that the nature of warfare, the post Ukraine warfare, had had profoundly changed his failure to understand. just about everything which has put him into a a. A near mortal corner in this in this war.

He can't he he he can't get out of it. He can't find his way out of it. Amazingly, it seems the Iranians have an absolute. understanding of each aspect of this. I mean, there they are literally there, and they're there. Inside his head. They seem to have realized his weaknesses in a way that that an opponent. that opponents have rarely been able to, to get a bead on Trump like that. Yeah. You know, I'm not I'm not sure.

And, you know, one of the things that that that a lot of people and a lot of people. in business in New York and the real estate world. have always talked about is that is that Trump is easy to read. because he does the same thing over and over again, because his his insecurities and weaknesses are. So he wears them on, on his, on his sleeve. And also because an a fundamental flaw and it still remains. one of his fundamental flaws.

He doesn't or cannot pay attention to the details. and obviously the Iranians, because it is life or death for them. And actually it has been the death for many of them. All depends upon upon the details. They are reading this. He is incapable of reading it, and he should have advice from Marco Rubio, you would think. But. is he is he listening? Well, no. I mean, as we as we've discussed so many times, he doesn't listen to advice.

I mean that he is that is the other thing. He is incapable of listening to advice. I mean, he is incapable. We don't have to go that far. He is incapable of listening. Period. But you've discussed this many times. Of course. No, I mean, it is. It is one of the the over and shocking things about Donald Trump. in which anyone who has ever spent any time with him.

not only appreciates, but finds it, you know, just a draw dropping circumstance that he never, ever, ever shuts up. There's also one of this, this point. about inflation and cost of living and its ability to to hurt him. There are some psychologically hurting figures and in these, these new CPI figures, and one of them is that tomatoes of all things are up 40%,

which is kind of like the egg figure that he he ruled so effectively. But it seems like. in this case it's because. partly because bad weather, but partly because of tariffs. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean I think what everyone finds. and that's the affordability issue is that everything is up. I mean that it costs one's to live one's. life is significantly more expensive than it has been. And in this and there is the sense that it gets more and more expensive.

This is not the I mean, this is if you're. if you're in charge, this becomes a mortal aspect of of. Of your ability to continue to stay in charge. And it's a cure Starmer kind. I mean, it's one of the things that he is running against. And, you know, it's almost this broader thing which, which, which gets into, you know, okay, this is a moment of populism.

Yes, yes, yes. And that's that's certainly true. But there is this other thing and it's a and it's a structural thing. that, that all of these, these issues that face. post-modern industrial. societies are really hard to fix. Right? So if you become the guy, the point guy,

Starmer or Trump or Biden before that, you're going to get the wrath of people who say you're not. you're not solving these problems, especially if they voted for you. especially. And, and and we can have some. I mean, I hate to have sympathy for Donald Trump, but we can have some sympathy for the fact that these problems. really are hard to solve. They may not be problems that can be solved. So therefore somebody has somebody. Nevertheless, somebody is going to have to pay for them.

Joanna is going to be watching this, seeing old on. I go away for half an hour and we're expressing sympathy for Donald Trump. only by mistake. Only a tiny bit. Tiny bit. You know, I mean, I it's an interesting thing. If there were if there were a politician who could. somehow explain this, who could say, yes, I'm in charge. But, you know, this is the limits. of what can be done here.

Having said that, you've got to do something. Yes, but. we are going to see Trump. meeting a politician later this week who is somewhat. unconstrained by elections and somewhat unconstrained. by the need for popular support, because he's going to China. Yes. And and he is going to meet. with the Premier. You know, I remember in the,

in the early in the first administration. there was a, there was getting Trump to say the name. She was impossible. I mean, it was I mean, there. were weeks spent on this x I. I mean, and they couldn't get him. I mean it was say it like the pronoun she, he doesn't believe in pronouns famously,

but you know, he's conquered that difficulty. But let's let's bring this back to the because I think this this is. this is an important, an important moment. because part of the Trump rise to power, the first Trump administration, this Trump administration, a central theme has been to deal. with the China issue. China. China gutted the the American heartland, the industrial landscape.

China became rich. The Chinese became richer. as the Americans became poorer. That had to be addressed. We didn't trust the Chinese. The Chinese were using all of the of the tools at their disposal, essentially, essentially, essentially state. sponsored capitalism, which is an.

odd, odd turn, but that's basically what it was. The Chinese would subsidize their industries at the expense of the. of the US industry and of the Europeans also. That had to be stopped. There would be no growth in the United States, no real growth, especially especially for the Trump. base, the working man, the US working man. Unless unless China were stopped, unless we could we could have have it.

That would be the only way we would have a chance at any kind of realization. Now, in the course of this. This is the first Trump administration. We're now coming to the to the, to the end of the first half of the second administration. The the the theme. There's this the Trump. theme of wanting to stop the Chinese, but the actual theme is that the Chinese,

their power and influence. and wealth has only expanded. Right. So so on that count, Trump has failed at every point. So he hasn't been to China in ten years. He or it's almost ten years, I should say, since he was last in China. And as I say, Michael, China's got more powerful. China has got richer. What is he going? What is he going for?

What's in his mind about what? This what this trip is about? Because we haven't really heard. an explanation or a speech or a position. or, you know, the traditional ways in which people might communicate held. Well. Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of things. First, there is as as with all things, the distraction. And he's going to go to China and he's going to be. fitted in all kinds of ways.

And, and they're going to, they're going to lay on a big spread and big parades. And and he loves the parade. Yes. And it will that will that will play to not only his vanity. but to taking up media time and media space. So so pay no attention to Iran or inflation or, or anything, anything else. So that's so that's one part of it.

Then the other part of it is, is Trump. I can make a deal. I can always make a good deal. I'm I'm the deal guy, you know. And that again, that's that other thing. It's kind of kind of like his like his marriage. I'm married to the most beautiful woman. All. Although we don't live together, we don't speak. And she clearly hates me. And the deal stuff is, is sort of like that. It's a complete invented myth, you know, and even in the, in the, the, the Trump.

the Trump mythology. or the reverse mythology that anyone who is familiar with what he did. when he ran the Trump Organization is that someone else always did the deals. I mean, he couldn't do the deals he has. You know, the the thing about doing deals is that you. really do have to pay attention to the detail, all of it detail. which which he never does.

So there's enormous worry. He's going to China and he's going in, by the way, he has come to believe. It's not as if he says, I really can't do the deals. And somebody else, he really thinks he can do the deals. So there's an enormous. Fear that he's going to China and he's going to give away the store. And part of that is he has this idea of. of bringing Chinese investment. into the US. And.

You know, I mean, notably, I mean, this is this is how this is. how China has expanded its influence around the world. This is kind of like the Belt and Road Initiative that they have this idea of, like they go in, they invest. And essentially therefore, those things are pretty close. to being Chinese properties. So he is talking about bringing in like $1 trillion in Chinese. because that's his that's his number now is a trillion, right?

It used to be it was a million. Then it was a billion. No, it's a trillion. Yeah. No, I'm sure it's going to sue me for $1 trillion soon. It's. so that's. what he's going to that's going to be his big announcement. The big takeaway I got China to give us all this money when it's not China. giving us all this money, it's China. buying America, basically. And he's already had warnings about this even from his own,

roughly speaking, his own side or Ingram, who is on on, you know, as a pro-Trump voice on Fox to some extent, but really a traditional. I think you've pointed out before more of a voice of what Rupert is saying. Yeah. No, no, Laura would be Rupert's voice. Yes. Yes, she has been. She was using her platform to say this seems like a mistake. Yeah. And Rupert would be, you know, would be one of those those old actually.

Actually, he's in trouble on two fronts here, both from traditional Republicans. and from and from MAGA Republicans on, on this. I mean, this is going to be he. what comes out of. this is going to be. This is. this will be the the one of, one of the pivotal issues. to look at the Republican of how the Republican Party,

both the, the. the center and the right, how how they respond to this because they're both united in. China is the bad guy, and he's going to come out of this and say, China is the good guy. There are partner now. And he he previously he publicly sucked up to she's kind of he's a great guy. He's a genius. Presumably from she's point of view. This is this is the situation you want right.

Somebody completely to make a deal with you and say. nice things about you before you go in there. I mean, so you have both the Iranians and the Chinese trying to deal. who are effectively dealing with Trump. from a position of strength rather than weakness, which is a which is a total reversal, a reversal of 80 years of American foreign policy as well, obviously. But yeah. No. And it goes to this other thing.

What is Trump doing making foreign policy. This is the person you've elected to to. To to. do a vital job which he has no capacity to do. and which, which those people are well aware of as well. No. And it's and it's this other thing when we get to the, you know, come back to the cure Starmer problem. Nobody all of these people in power.

don't have the ability to make the dramatic changes that people want. So therefore we elect people who promise. dramatic changes because. But they promise. dramatic changes because they can't fully appreciate. or they're flimflam people, that it's impossible to make dramatic changes. Therefore they get elected. And Nigel Farage will probably become the prime minister of,

of the United Kingdom in I mean, he'll get his shot at this. And likewise Donald Trump, who are not people. capable of doing the of. of attending to the fundamental details. of government, the kind of details that hold things together. Well, we're going to see a couple of days, but I wanted to talk to you as well. I don't think Nigel Farage is going to become the Prime Minister.

I would actually handicap Nigel Farage as not becoming prime minister. I think he is too closely associated with Trump and that the. the center left consensus in the UK is. or the country has a broader center of consensus than the US does. So I think my guess is that it would be difficult. for him to get enough support to be prime Minister.

And just to point out to the American audience that Nigel Farage. is Reform Party. Just just the other smacked everybody, everybody else, the single most. popular party, and they just picked up a lot of local elections. The UK doesn't have states, but it does have authorities, the common councils. And they picked up sort of like the midterms. It's kind of it's kind of a midterms. And they did very well. I think if I'm from what people were talking about.

and I should say I spent some time in Scotland where I am from, which has its own internal politics, about breaking up with the UK or not. But I think Nigel Farage has a ceiling and the way that the UK. electoral system works, that ceiling might actually be to be too low for him. to get into number ten Downing Street, the home of the UK's prime ministers. I've been listening to this to a lot for a long time now.

Essentially ten years that Nigel Farage was had reached. his his reached his ceiling. And you may be right. Yeah. I'm, I do I do think he's even reached a ceiling yet. I think he's got more to go. But I think that. there might just be enough tactical voting and a combination of the sort. of intricacies of the electoral system that could keep that could keep them out. But I could be wrong. No interest in return to the individual.

Farage like, like like Donald Trump is not someone who has any evident ability. or any interest in in in. managing the details of government. Absolutely. Absolutely. Exactly the same characteristics, you know, so, so in China what you go to China. I mean, I mean, this is this is a very technical. It's a very. technical process on how you produce an advantage.

and don't incur a disadvantage in this negotiation. I mean, it's like any negotiations. It's like a business negotiation, which Donald Trump. is supposed to be expert on, which he is a complete. Just a has always been. has been unable to sit in the chair. long enough to, to complete a deal. And he's going to be up against in China.

It's worth pointing out somebody who has made himself leader. for life, so in theory has infinite time or something close to infinite time. And the same trade negotiator has been doing the trade negotiations. for China, leading their delegation for the last decade. Now in the, the the scene around around Trump will be I mean, there are America. I mean he's gone over a number first thing with a whole parcel of business guys. What's that about? I don't support CEOs.

And and then there will be professionals in the room room with him. But he undermines these people at every point. I mean, he is never it's not as though Donald Trump is on the same page. as his team. It's the team and it's Donald Trump. And then it will be. And then it is about Donald Trump's vanity, Donald Trump's ego, Donald Trump's whatever. Donald Trump came into Donald Trump's mind at any. given point, I assume he's going to have sworn with them.

We would think, being true thing relentlessly. And the people when you go to China and I've never been to China, you've been to China, Michael I haven't, no, actually I have. Embarrassing to admit. I know it's slightly embarrassing for me, but I was going to say. that I have sent reporters to China as as an editor. And the thing you have to make sure is they don't take their phones,

they don't take their laptops. They're given new burner, clean pieces of equipment. But we assume that Donald Trump will not be taking that. advice. Yeah. I mean, it's. the entire thing, the entire idea. of sending Donald Trump to the to China. to negotiate a historic, potentially. a historic deal is frightening.

Well, you'll be back later in the week to break that down. But we did want to talk about something else, which is. you agree to Substack on whole. Michaels absolutely must read Substack. And this is part it in your Epstein Diaries. Yes. And I think it's it's there's a lot to discuss in it, actually. It's about I just say to go and read it. Well, the QR code on, on screen. So, you know, go have a read and there's so much to think about.

But let's talk about. Sure, sure. No, because this is kind of a divergent view, no doubt a controversial view. I mean, it's my attempt to to kind of parse what happened here, you know, and we're in this this. the Epstein story, one of the, the, the kind of fundamental pillars of it. at this point is the deal he cut.

with the Justice Department in 2008, which sent him to jail for an 18 month term, but not on a federal charge, but on a state charge. And that has that has looked at in the narrative. as it's developed that that is a. that sentence was was ridiculously lenient. And it therefore therefore, because it was so lenient obviously was the product of hidden hands.

and deep state and the conspiracy that would ultimately. that would. grow and grow and grow over, over time. And, and so I take a new look at that and. And identify a couple, a couple of elements. of, of of this first thing, first thing that it was that the,

that the charges against against Epstein, the. and this, this is again, it's a complicated. and one of the things that happens over time is this becomes. one of the more complicated legal cases of the age. And, and the case was taken. from the local authorities by the, by the, by the Justice Department. And, and it was always unclear that they, that they had,

that they would have the power to do that they, they charged him. under trafficking statues, statutes. But this was but you could equally as you could certainly argue. that it shouldn't have been in the in a federal case. This is a local case. Everybody the the crime occurred in Palm Beach. It involved, you know and this is other a hot button issue. that this was that this was and he was charged with prostitution.

Prostitution is a local crime or was charged with with soliciting. But even I should say that was soliciting under eight. The phrase that was used was soliciting an underage prostitute. But even then it's a thing because he was originally charged with by. in Palm Beach, just with soliciting. It wasn't it wasn't under underage. and and then that's part of the rationale for the.

for the feds stepping in. and but and you can. you can argue this that almost at every at every step. which people have and this is, this is why conspiracies develop. But the other aspect of this which I highlight in this piece, is. the amount of money that suddenly started to be spent in this case. And, and part of the conspiracy theory.

would be that, well, well, you know, the. Yes, that's why he got a lenient, lean, lenient sentence. Because because he bought it, he paid for it. But the thing about the money in the money in this case is greater. than certainly any sex abuse case ever. And and actually greater than most. criminal cases ever. is that the money changes everything. And you, you make a very, very pointed comparison,

which I think takes us back to being inside Trump's head. He had a specific model here, his former friend. and now nemesis Donald Trump. The idea of engaging in the fight he had taken from Trump. Yeah. No, I mean, he was I mean, Jeffrey Epstein disdained. almost everything about Donald Trump, but admired his ability. to engage, to battle with the system.

And you're, you know, one of the things that's worth talking about here, I think, is. we talk a lot about Epstein in after his conviction, after the 2008 conviction has become the focus. and the sort of the test of people, as did they continue to do business with them. Where are they seeking his advice? Where they seeking his company? But you were talking to him before the conviction. at a time when, I imagine many people didn't know that this was coming.

They didn't well, they didn't know this. And there's also the thing and that. And I'll get into this in, in, in future installments of, of this, you know, the Epstein, the Epstein that we now know, the monster that we. that we appreciate is a is a developing story. So even after 2009 or 2010, when he gets out of out of. out of prison, it's not really clear that he.

he is certainly not then the person he will become perceived as now, should he have been. Well, this is a again another complicated aspect of this that involved. that's that involves. both the facts of what happened and the narrative that's applied to this. But one of the things in this, and I think very few people. appreciate this detail of the 2008. plea, is that part of the plea is that.

he pledged to compensate all of the victims. in this case, and the victims. to be defined are undefined. There's no list of the victims. It is essentially open ended. He agrees to compensate them. He agrees not to challenge their claims, and he agrees to pay their attorney's fees.

So suddenly this you have this open ended fund of money. Now, in the end, there will be to date, and this is when we're by no means finish with this. There's there's as much as $500 million that has been paid out in this case. And so one of the things and this is this is trying not to take a position on. who's right, who's wrong, who is who. has the moral high ground, who is just putting putting.

all of that aside is just the the the money changes everything. So the money the money is like having a camera in the room. People are not going to act like they would without. the camera in the in the room. This is kind of a fundamental, a fundamental premise of modern life. And the same is true with money. So you cannot be a, a,

a neutral participant, a neutral witness, given. all of the money that is available here. There's one thing I want to raise with you about this, this account, which to me was a new fact about Epstein, which again. raises some parallels to Trump. You say that he had a library of references. to a 1970s television show. which starred George Peppard or Peppard,

I should say Peppard, better known to people of my generation as Hannibal from the A-Team. But I had to to Epstein, he was banner check. going round and yeah, you know, I mean, this is kind of Trumpy, right? The 70s TV thing. Well, that was I mean, that was a particular show. And, you know, the other show that he was. that that he had was sort of a in his mind,

a cult show for him was was a more recent blacklist. So in each of these cases, I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was a made up figure. I mean, he didn't Jeffrey Epstein doesn't exist, which is another. another way in which the conspiracy comes to play. Well, he must have been somebody must have been backing them. He must have been the front for somebody, except for the fact that he wanted you. to believe that. Yes. I mean, it was in everything.

Jeffrey Epstein didn't exist. And then he turned himself into this, this figure, this Jeffrey Epstein. figure that had no relationship to what he would of otherwise. Ordinarily, in a in what would seem to be a logical world. have been and and again, this goes to the conspiracy. He must be a conspiracy, except for the fact that he was trying to. make you think he was the product of a conspiracy, but was was a character.

in the 1970s in which he lived in a big house, had people attending to him. You didn't know where his money came from. And and. Epstein. saw himself like that in blacklists with James Spader. James Spader is a is a kind of master criminal who the government. has to call on to solve all crimes or something like that.

I mean, it's ridiculous, but it again, it is this made up figure that's. Jeffrey Epstein was all at all times writing his own story. He wanted you to think. I mean, he wanted you to think that that he was this, this sexual something or other. I mean, he was surrounded himself with, with these, these young women all of the time. I mean, let me technically point out that certainly in my experience,

the young women did not seem under I mean, they seemed like 19 or 20. They seem like models. So it was always calling attention to himself, calling attention to what you would of otherwise think. If he were trying to hide, he would not have called attention. to the one thing that I think that jumped out on me. about all of this as well, is that your analysis. is much less based on conspiracy than on an invite, is not based on.

conspiracy, obviously, but is based on. sort of the slippery nature of reality. And this kind of ties back to Trump and China, that there were so many people. negotiating, and it became so it becomes so complicated that actually, no. And it goes back to the to. to really character and, and it's right to bring up Trump. I mean, Trump, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump created themselves at the same time.

Why did they like each other? Because part of the bond was that they were both creating these, these myths about themselves. And then they ultimately came into conflict and arguably mortal conflict. But. but they are within, in that framework, absolutely the same kind of person. You can probably even go that they are the same person. Well, I just, I just won't say got to go and read it.

It's fascinating. There's lots of people who want to ask questions about your time with Epstein. It's all here. It's all on hold. And yeah, no, there's no one whole yet. But there is more coming. Yeah. No, I mean, I am going to tell this entire Epstein story. And again, the interesting thing about the Epstein story. has largely been told, entirely been told by people. who did not know him, because the people who did know him. Are have been, are too afraid to talk.

So my view is really the, the. the only view so far from. from someone who has actually observed him over quite a number of years. Well, must read QR code is back on the screen. People should go and I'm sure Joanna the next time. What's of feedback as well on this? Michael, been a pleasure to join you. Well, thank you for being here. Thank you for taking me in. Say Trump's heads.

Thank you to our producers, Ryan, Heather, Rachel and Neil. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.