I Know What Trump's D.C. Makeover Is Really About | The Daily Beast Podcast

When you look at the white House, it's a symbol of who we are as Americans. We rejected the gold leaf of the monarchy and Donald Trump. He's so enamored with the pomp and circumstance of royalty and dictatorships. that he's going and trying to literally glue it onto the white House. Piece by piece. When you look at the Oval Office right now, it is stunning. to see the face, the facelift he's given it. It's like the, you know, the Mar-A-Lago facelift.

He's given it to the Oval Office. It's not real and it's not authentic. It's not American any longer. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. And today we have Trump chronicler Katy Tur on the show. She talks about his health. She talks about the grift. She talks about the state fair. Why isn't anybody there? And this is a woman whose first book, unbelievable, sold millions of copies.

as she chronicled him on the campaign. And then in his first term in office. She's now, of course, host of the Moment on Miss Now. But she has opinions about everything. So before we get into it, just a reminder. We're literally like 2000. memberships of getting to 700,000. So if you haven't subscribed to The Daily Beast, the reason we can bring you. independent conversations is because we are genuinely independent media.

But we love your support. We need your support. So please subscribe to The Daily Beast. If you haven't become a BBC member, become a friend of the beast. But we love your support and Katy Tur so much to talk about. Let's get into it. Katy Tur, very good to have you back on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Joanna, what the hell is going on in the Republican Party? I think the Republicans are asking themselves that right now.

What is going on? What does Donald Trump want? It doesn't seem to be the Republicans winning the midterms. Right. So how how upset are Republican Congress people and senators? By this, I mean, he seems to be almost going out of his way. to be disruptive to their chances, which are already slim. I mean, he seems to be the real issue that the Democrats are going to run on. Well, some of the Republicans are just fine with it.

Mike Lee is just fine with it. Some others, some are extraordinarily upset about it. Thom Tillis is one of them. We've seen Bill Cassidy come out and get angry. John Cornyn, even these are people that Donald Trump is primaried. They're all leaving. They believe it's not hard for them to know. It's not hard for them. But there is a you can tell that there is a growing discontent. by the way they're voting, by the way they're voting on more powers. What they are willing to do. Donald Trump wants them to overturn the filibuster to get his Save America.

Act through. They are not willing to do that. There aren't even there isn't even a full slate of Republicans. who are willing to vote for that, let alone ten Democrats, let alone enough Republicans, to overturn the filibuster, because they understand. that time marches forward, and there might come a time where they are. not in power, and losing the filibuster would be a problem for them. So there is a lot of discontent because their goal is to get reelected. Their goal is to put some legislation on the floor.

to vote for it, to get him to sign it. And he's not doing that. He's got a housing bill in front of him right now. that was dispatched to him by the speaker a couple of days ago. He still has not signed it. I think he called it dull or boring or something. The other day, a housing bill that the Republicans can run on on two things. One, we can work with Democrats. We are not incapable of bipartisanship. We can make your lives better. And number two, look, we have made your lives better. We understand that you're having problems with affordability.

We understand that many young people especially, don't think that. the American dream is possible any longer, because they can't afford a house. We are addressing that keep us in power, right? They can't do that because the president hasn't signed the bill. So we're hearing that there's a lot of shouting. There was a Republican lunch this week for senators and he shouted at people. He shouted at people again last night there were reports of. sort of loud, raised voices. You've covered Donald Trump ever since he descended in Trump Tower.

Your first book, unbelievable, was about the 510 days you spent on the campaign. No one has observed him more closely than you now here and Jonathan Swan might be. Well, they might be a little bit closer at this point. They've just written the most recent book. Right. But there's a whole group of you. who've been following and watching this man for a long time. Do you think he's changed? I think he's just more himself. And I think that happens to all of us.

As we get older, we become more ourselves. Oh, God. And more insulin. I think it's true. But he's the president of the United States, and he is acting. like once he is done with this, nothing else matters. And what we're seeing is, I mean, he used to be. he used to talk directly to people about what they were experiencing. I mean, some would say that he wasn't, you know, tethered to truth about. what was going on, but he knew how to read a room. when he understood people's grievances or frustrations and what they wanted.

I mean, he was on the road all the time. So when you say people, do you mean regular? I mean regular people write regular people. So he was listening. He was getting feedback from voters. And you know this, if you are in a room with Donald Trump, he's like a comedian. He's road testing what lines work on you. He's watching how you react and he's reacting to your reaction. He can do it one on one, and he can do it an entire at an entire rally. And he was so good at that in 2016 and so good at that.

Even during the first administration, when he was always going out and having rallies, even as president. So he understood the American public. But since he left office. during the intervening time where he was, he was not president. And now he's done far less rallies. I mean, he did some while he was campaigning. Yes. And he won again. But he has lost that touch that he's had with the American public. And it doesn't seem like he cares or wants to be back in touch.

He's going through the greatest hits of his lines. Democrats made that up. It's a hoax. Don't worry about it. Everybody loves me. I'm your favorite president. He's no longer talking about the things that they are saying very clearly in poll. after poll or any interview that you hear matter to them. That's the cost of living, right? So. So where does he go from here? I mean, what's your prediction? In as much as one can predict anything about Donald Trump,

who is the least predictable person? And also unpredictable events happen. to Donald Trump, to not least Butler, Pennsylvania. Do you have a sort of. sense of what you think is going to happen at the midterms? So I think that if you look at the way things are happening right now, it seems pretty clear that the Democrats have a very easy path. to take over the House, and they may have a path to take over the Senate. So there could be a situation where he loses both.

If he loses both by wide margins, he will be a little bit more hamstrung. if you loses one or both by a tighter margin. I think what you're going to hear is what you always hear, which is that the election's rigged, right? And he will try to to say that it, it it doesn't count. It's invalid. This party has no bearing over him. The Congress should have no authority over him because it's an invalid Congress.

I think you're going to hear all of that. The question is, how far will it go? Will he try to? Will he try to get electors not to certify the vote again? Will he put pressure on them? Will he present evidence. from his DNI, Bill Pulte, the acting guy that tries to dispute what happened? There's already reporting that they're trying to declassify material. that they say will help him on the 2020 election.

interference claims that he had made. So I think you just you it's hard to predict. what exactly will happen, but I think you can safely say. that if he loses, he will say it's not fair and it's rigged. This episode is sponsored by row. One of the biggest misconceptions about GLP one medications. is that they're simply out of reach financially. So many people. never even look into treatment because they assume it'll be too expensive.

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That's our. To get started on Ro, go to road. for boxed warning and full safety. information about GLP one medications. Why is he still obsessed with the 2020 election? Because he can't lose. It's an ego thing. Oh, it's because he can't. He just cannot literally cannot accept that he that he has lost, he's unable to do it. Now, maybe he intellectually understands that he did.

But I would venture to say at this point, he has so convinced himself of the lie. about the election. being rigged against him that he actually believes that he won it. So it's a delusion, right? So there's all sorts of speculation about his health. We know that the white House has said he's got chronic venous insufficiency, which is not uncommon in someone of his age. There are a lot of people saying that he's beginning to show, especially because.

you can track his language over the last 40 or 50 years because he's never stopped. I mean, go back and look at a clip of him from 2000. It is shocking how coherent. he was compared to what he what he is now. He could keep a thought. and he could keep going with that thought and he could answer questions cogently. And today he's just all over the place. So you think, do you think there's a mental difference now? I think I think that there's a mental difference. in the way that he speaks today. Then even 2016, then 2020, I think I don't think you need to ask me that.

You can go and look. and see it for yourself in the clips, but just someone who's observed. him, you've noticed it. He's more chaotic in the way that he answers questions. He goes on more tangents. He. he doesn't. follow a thought clearly and he's president. So that's alarming that he doesn't follow a thought clearly. I mean, I would I would think that anybody who's concerned. about was concerned about Joe Biden would have been concerned about this.

Right, right. So we should be at the state fair. Both of us should be at the state fair. We should be with your children, except it's going to be 100 degrees. What do you think of the celebrations in Washington this week? I mean, you've been watching them. You've been chronicling them on your show on Miss. Mess now, are you you know, you're an American. Is this something that you feel proud of?

I think what is most disheartening about what we're seeing, and I'm going. to say disheartening because it's it's it shouldn't be about Donald Trump. It shouldn't be about MAGA, right? It should be about the American public in this country and telling a story. of who we are, where we came from and where we are going. I think we saw that so beautifully with what. President Obama did the other day, the dedication to his library. He told a story about this country and how far we've come.

And he gave people on every side of the political spectrum. a reason to believe in this country and to be proud to be an American. And there are so many folks out there who are grasping for that today. They want to be able to say, hey, this country. Yeah, complicated, full of mistakes. We have not been the best to ourselves, to our own people, and we have not been the best to foreign lands and foreigners.

But we have been good by and large. We have done good, and we can do more good if we all believe in it. I think we need that as a country right now. We are so divided and he has this opportunity. at our 250th birthday to try to bridge that divide. And we shouldn't be surprised. But he's not taking it. He's making it about himself. It feels like a political rally. He had that that wrestling match on the UFC.

UFC, the fighting match. Excuse me, on the white House lawn. That's not representative of what Americans watch. The majority of the public isn't watching that. You had a guy stand up and call the former first lady of man. Americans aren't looking for that. They're looking to celebrate this country and themselves and our democracy. They're not looking to celebrate Donald Trump or MAGA. So in my opinion, that is what is disappointing. about what we're witnessing the state fair.

Sure, in theory it's a good idea, but in actuality. it feels very partizan because Donald Trump makes everything. So Partizan because he's made it about himself and made it all about MAGA. You get a bunch of performers drop out. They didn't want to be a part of something that was so Partizan. They wanted to be a part of something that was celebrating this country. And it feels it feels empty and it is empty, or it is empty because it feels empty.

Right. Well, another thing that he's made sure of is that he's filling his own coffers. I was astonished to find this. Still, a government Office of Ethics came out with a report this week. saying that Donald Trump has made $2.2. billion since he's been president. Now, we know that last time he was president, he felt that he hadn't made enough money on it, that he'd actually, you know, he had had to put things in blind trusts that,

you know, he felt he missed out on regular earning opportunities. Now, happily for Donald Trump, he's dug in. He's dug into the Griff. Yeah. He said nobody cared that he made money last time. Right. So why would he stop now? So what? You know, you're looking at this. What do you think about this? Is this this is. Well, we know this is really unusual behavior for a president to help himself. And it's not really unusual. It's unprecedented. No one's ever done this, okay? And I say, I mean, the word unprecedented is a cliche.

Everything's unprecedented that he does. He is breaking all the rules and all the norms. All of this shame somebody might have had for making money off the president's. presidency. Donald Trump doesn't have shame in that way, so it doesn't bother him. Yesterday on the show I was talking about before the financial disclosure. came out, and we learned all of the ways in which he's making money off. crypto and actually just putting it, it seems, in his pocket. I was talking about the New York Post editorial about his son.

Okay, I missed that. What did it his sons, the New York Post, called out his sons and Howard sons, right. Were the Kazakhstan post in deal, right? It's $1 billion, maybe $1,000,000,000.8 deal. between the government and the country of Kazakhstan for their tungsten. And it's been linked to firms that have ties to both sets of sons. And the New York Post said enough is enough. This has gone too far. I mean, they tried to equate it to Hunter Biden, which I think is silly, and that's Hunter Biden's deal with the UK.

They said when Hunter Biden and Joe Biden did it, it wasn't right. It's certainly not right if you do it. And in trying to put it into context, I was searching around for a George H.W. Bush letter. that he wrote to his sons before he became president while he was running. And he he wrote them. saying, as we get closer to November, you're going to find yourself. having a whole lot of friends, a whole lot of new friends, right? What I ask of you, would I beg of you is that you never call a government entity.

anything linked to the government. and drop your name because you're going to get a call back. But that call is likely going to get. leaked and likely going to, at worst, be misrepresented. And it brought me back to something that happened with Reagan. and his son, Michael. He was a he worked for a military contractor, and he wrote a letter to an Air Force base. That surface serviced Air Force One, saying, my father is proud of this country, and I know that he's proud of Air Force One.

I'm summarizing, and we'd like to be considered for future contracts. Me and my the military contractor that he was associated with, it got leaked, the press put it out there, and the American public. went wild and said, this is absolutely not acceptable. And Michael Reagan had to resign from that position, right, with the military contractor. I mean, and this was not a business that he was standing. to make millions and millions and millions of dollars off of.

It used to be that the American public didn't stand for this sort of behavior. They held our presidents and the families to a higher standard. Well, and I think even a higher standard, it's just an appropriate. an appropriate standard for land of interests. Absolutely. And so my question is, why are we here. now where enough of the American public seems to be okay with this? I mean, we're going to have another chance. to find out if they really are in November. I mean, this will be the American voters chance to say, I do believe.

there should be a standard of conduct for the guy in the white House. And I do believe there should be a standard of conduct. that Congress holds them to. So we'll see if that happens. But I mean, the exponentially. worse degree to which Donald Trump and his family are using his name. and the white House and the presidency to enrich themselves, you cannot make a comparison to anybody else in American history. Well, and also the first lady who got $40.

million from Amazon for a film about her, which is the most banal, although strangely revealing, I think unwittingly. revealing movie about her and also her book. And it's, you know, we've seen Jill Biden's on a book tour. now, Doctor Biden selling her book about her experience in the white House. But usually presidents do it after first ladies do it after Michelle Obama. obviously did becoming they don't monetize the job while they're in office.

No, I mean, there's a line you don't cross usually the. the financial disclosure I thought. was most striking in the amount of money that he's making off of crypto. I mean, it was like $2.2 billion total, but one point. I have notes, 1.4 billion from crypto. Right. And so the white House, in trying to push back on it, says that Donald Trump. has no conflict of interest, but he's proud to make America like. the capital of crypto around the world, of course. But there but they're they're revealing the conflict.

They're confirming the conflict in the statement. It's like if Donald Trump said, I want to be. I want to make America the washing machine capital of the world. And he was the owner of Maytag, right? Like, like, obviously there is a conflict there. Or like, I want America to be the soybean capital of the world. And he owns owned all the soybean farms. Right. So when he's saying this about crypto and he has the power. to loosen regulations, which he had has, maybe it's good for America to be the capital of crypto, but it's. certainly certainly good and has been good for him.

I found that list where they detailed what he made from each thing. really interesting because it was, I think, 200. was it $208,000 from the Trump Bible? It was, I think, $67,000. from fragrance and his gold shoes. And you're like, and who's buying this stuff? And I think 4 million from Trump watches actually. I mean I mean it's just so it's also the meme coin. I mean, what did he get make $635 million on the meme coin?

That's nothing. You were basically just putting money into Donald Trump's pocket, right? To have this thing that doesn't even exist in real life. Who's paying for this? Maybe it's some regular Americans, but it also was. Are there also people who are using it to pay for access to him, actual access. to him? Right. Well, let's talk about access to him, because obviously, one way that companies are doing that and people are doing. that is by donating to the East Wing, which he ripped down.

And now, in theory, he's rebuilding it as a huge 90,000ft ballroom, which I still find incredible and will dwarf the existing white House. I mean, that's what's so strange that it's just going to look crazy. I wonder, you know, I think if the ballroom. was to a better scale and it was done tastefully. with the American public, have such a problem with it. Oh, I'm sure they wouldn't. Right.

Because actually, you could argue. they do need a ballroom and they have their definitely owners. I'm sure you've been to them. You have to go down a little bit of a student or. No. Well, I've been to one and I was shocked that it was in a tent. And then you had to get in a little golf cart and be taken there. They have like little miniature trains. It was a super fun evening. I'm not going to pretend it wasn't, but I was shocked that they. they had to establish a marquee for it instead of having an event space. So I can see his argument for that. But the way it's been done, and he said it was going to be 250 million.

Now it's now it's 400 million. Now it might be a billion because they're adding all sorts. of hospital facilities and a bigger right, a bunker. Now they want drones on the roof. I mean, it's it's a and it's going to come out right. And it's a sort of Swiss army knife of buildings. It's sort of everything Donald Trump has ever wanted from a building, I think. Yeah, it's like he said, well, we, you know, I need a bunker to be safe. Let me destroy the bunker we have.

So I'm going to force you to build me a better bunker. The way in which he's doing this, not I mean, breaking the rules is one thing I think. You know, I'm. not sure how much people care about him breaking construction code, right. I there's a brazenness with which he just does whatever he wants. It's very plain. And now you have images, actual physical images of it. You have the image of the construction side of the white House, which every time you look at it, it is it is a shocking thing to see.

Yeah. It is. Now you have the destroyed lawn from the UFC fight and what appears to be. there's a big circle on the I think it's the South Lawn now. I think that could be where maybe where a helipad is going. Right. That's right. He's adding a helipad. Yeah. Added a really gaudy gold eagle to one of the balconies. The outside balconies. Has he actually added that or the white House showed an image of it. So I don't, I don't actually know unless they just put it up there for a second.

Well, you lead me on to another thing because I thought that was an AI image. And maybe it will be of his intent, I think. But somewhat ominously, there is now scaffolding. surrounding the actual white House, the famous column. They say that they're just updating or restoring the columns. Who knows them? But you can't take the white House at their word. You actually can't. And the American public, when you look at the white House, it's a symbol of who we are as Americans. We are a country that broke away from a monarchy.

We, we we rejected the trappings of a monarchy. We rejected the gold leaf of the monarchy. And Donald Trump is going and he, he he's so enamored with the pomp. and circumstance of royalty and of dictatorships that he is going. and trying to literally glue it onto the white House piece by piece. One of one of, I think, the best parts of Maggie and John's new book, Regime Change, and this is Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan was was a part.

where they were describing Donald Trump on his hands and knees, super gluing gold appliques. to the the fireplace in the Oval Office. Yeah, super like like you have on your door here. Well, we have it. We should show our door because we've done it as a mock march. to what they're doing. When you look at the Oval Office right now, it is stunning. to see the face, the facelift.

He's given it. It's like the, you know, the Mar-A-Lago facelift. He's given it to the Oval Office. It's not real and it's not authentic. It's not American any longer. We are not a country of of gaudy decorations. We're not a country of gold leaf. We are a country of like, down home homespun. Pick yourself up from your bootstraps. You know, grit and determination.

That's who we are as a country. That's what we started out as. And he's trying to change it unilaterally. And I think that while Americans might not be able to. to pinpoint exactly why they feel uncomfortable with it, they do feel uncomfortable with looking at how he's. physically changed the white House physically trying to change Washington. Yeah. And I think your point about building code and people maybe not. being too anxious about him breaking it is because it's so relatable.

for anybody who's tried to do their house or do anything. You have to file the most annoying kind of bureaucracy here in New York City. It's impossible to do anything. I have a poor man who bought the apartment opposite me three and a half years ago. He still hasn't been able to get it from the buildings department. So these things go on. I think people are sympathetic. to that, less sympathetic to the meddling of the white House. And it's so familiar, the white House and the modesty of it. Yeah. And then this terrible demolition that seemed to happen.

in the middle of the night, too. So people woke up and it was gone. Suddenly it was gone. And there was no historic coding paid attention to. And and it's, as you say, it's a it's a sort of taste. Also, how well is a job going to be done? Look at the reflecting pool. He spent, what, $14 million. trying to restore the reflecting pool, which was had problems for a long time. But he spent that money and a few days later, a few days later,

the bottom of the paint is peeling off the pool, and it's totally green because there's been an algae bloom. I mean, if you are going to do something and you're going to spend that money, you're going to how to do it right, at least have it work for a few months. But Donald Trump has these no bid contractors you talked to to people. with any expertise in this. And they'll say, well, you put a darker bottom on the pool down. You did it in the middle of summer. It's going to get hot. And when it's hot, it's easier for algae to bloom.

That's a basic science, right? If you're going to do this, do it in the fall when it's cooler and when it has a chance to settle. Like, I'm no pool expert. So who's who's doing the construction of the white House of the of the ballroom? Another apparently no bid contract. How well is that going to be done? Is it going to be something that lasts for another 100, 200, 300 years? Or is it something that's going to fall apart in a few months? Right. And also keeps referring himself to a builder. that this is the thing he really loves doing. This is the thing he knows how to do.

And yet actually what he does is slap his name on the side of buildings. How significant is it that the courts decided he had to take his name? I think it's very interesting. Again, I think that any time that he is. forced to back down is significant. There's a question of does this democracy survive? You know, how how threatened are we right now? I think we're threatened, but I am. I feel good about all the ways.

in which our system has pushed back against Donald Trump. And seeing that in the courts, we're seeing that even to a degree. with the Supreme Court, which is like that got this crazy, wild, arguably extreme theory on the unitary executive. But that's the executive. when it comes to Donald Trump specifically, they overruled his tariffs. They didn't let him overrule birthright citizenship. Right. That was this week. You know divide is a little depressing. That was crazy that it was 6 to 3.

And you're like three. people thought it would be four on constitutional grounds. Right? Right. So I mean, it could have been even closer. But regardless, they're pushing back on the moves that he has made specifically. And at the same time, you're seeing so many voters go out. and participate in special elections, go out and participate in primaries. The reaction to Donald Trump has not been muted. The American public is pushing back.

And so if I am feeling hopeful. about this democracy and hopeful about what will happen to us afterwards, and there's a whole lot of reasons not be hopeful. I look to all of the ways in which the system, even under. all of this stress, is continuing to hold. Okay. Well, that's that's not that. Yeah. That is that is slightly positive. So what are you planning to do for July the 4th? How are you planning to celebrate it? I'm going to be with my friends. We're going to go to the beach and watching fireworks.

I'm going to be with my kids, and I don't do it. the way that I've always done it, which is gather with the ones I love and. try to think of the ways in which I'm proud to be an American sign, proud to be an American, and all of the ways that I want. to participate in this democracy to make it better. Simple. I mean, it's not going to be top of my mind for the entire holiday, but on this 250 year anniversary,

I do think it's important to remind ourselves why. It's why. fighting for this. country is a is a fight worth having. To thank you so much for coming into the studio. It's so good to hear you and happy July 4th. You too. How are you celebrating our break, our breakaway? Also celebrating with friends. I'm sure there'll be some fireworks and I'm planning to relax. and planning to relax.

It's a holiday weekend. Pimms Cup or beer? Probably. Wine. Probably. Rose a probably rose a is that terrible? I think it might be terrible, but, you know, bit of summer in a bottle, I love that. Thanks for having me. What is going on with that. very ominous scaffolding at the front of the white House? That familiar portico. Why do I feel like it's going to change? And that the columns that Donald Trump was filmed stroking.

three weeks ago, there was something going on there. I suspect we're going to see another facelift of the white House. anyway, the moment it happens, or the moment we know more about it. happening, we'll be bringing you that news. If you have been. Thank you for watching us. Thank you for following us. Feel free to subscribe and a big thank you to our production team. John Romero, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Pissarro and Neil Rosenhaus.

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