I Know Exactly Who Is Plotting to Take Trump's Job | Inside Trump's Head

He often says terrible things. about his children, including Don junior in one of his frequent riffs. In the past has has been has been. I really regret giving him my name. No. Oh, yes. That's fairly damning. All of these. These, you know, his children in their own way or kind of. I mean, certainly the son's kind of broken by their relationship with him. Is Don junior competent? Of course not. He has spent his life as his father's lackey.

He's spent his life in a in a. a business that is of of of, you know, very little consequence except to support his father. Well, it gives me the shivers. Michael. Joanna. So we're going to do a special episode today, because one of the things that we've been thinking about a lot is. what does succession look like after Trump?

I mean, we had. the Viktor Orban election last week. He conceded quickly. Trump is coming to the end of. certainly his cognitive stage. Well, let's also put in terms of strictly a political timeline. He is shortly to be in, in a, in a very formal sense, a lame duck.

He cannot run again. No matter. He huffs and puffs and whatever he says, he can't. He can't run again. Also, he's about to be 80 years old. And and he enters. that period which all presidents enter. in, in their second term, if they get a second term. in which power starts to ebb because. because other people start to step up. The the party once party begins.

to think beyond, beyond, the current, the current presidency and to hope that there will be another presidency. And, you're and if you are a second termer, especially in the second half of your second term, you're kind of toast. You're kind of toast. So he is kind of toast. But what Trump is, is, is a is a different sort of person here.

I mean he's a sour dough. He's a very strange sound. Yes. Well that's that's true. But he is he is not like, you know, I mean, George. W Bush obviously just wanted to go off and be done with it all. Obama saw himself as, actually, I don't know what Obama sees himself as, but I think some as a celebrity, as a celebrity. You know, Bill Clinton thought, okay, I, you know,

I can't, you know, I'm not ready to let go of this. So I've got to invent some, some, some international thing. that will give me not only, profile, but money. I need money, money and lifestyle. Well, I think both money and lifestyle apply to Obama and Clinton, right? So. But Trump is Trump just wants to continue to beat Donald Trump. And the catch here is.

that it's going to be very hard for him to continue to beat Donald Trump. if he's not the president or running for president. So that's what would what's going to be start to be in his in his head. How does he find a successor. or potential successor who will work work. who will. complement what he wants, which is his own continuing.

purpose and grandeur and identity and celebrity and power? Well, arguably he's not going to want anybody then, or he's going to want. the the Republicans to lose so that he can say, I am your savior. Absolutely. Absolutely. The the the logical. Working this out logically is that he would. whoever is the nominee and he will hobble anyone trying to be the nominee, but whoever is the nominee, he will then undermine.

They will lose. The Democrat will win. Donald Trump will go back to Mar a Lago and. and yet be the once and future president. But before we get to that point, let's start to work out what happens over the next, you know, really, really beginning after after November, beginning now. I mean, everybody is is already sort of trying to try clearly pivoting,

clearly putting themselves into the. into the, positioning themselves so well, and he's already positioning them against each other. This is something he's always done. But we saw him put in, you know, after JD Vance. failed to come back from Pakistan with any progress on the talks with Iran. Marco Rubio was up last week to go in and pick up where JD Vance left off.

So Trump loves playing people off against each other. It's a way of managing power. And now they're all going to be thinking, how do I get the big job? Who is my base? How do I get the Trumpers on my side? Right. And, and how do I survive Donald Trump? And in these, these, these last years, as he turns more and more,

unpopular, if not. toxic, if not, anathema to, to a whole new section of voters. Right. Or if we use the New York Times word erratic, because he may support one person one day and then another person another day, and who knows of his badge of, approval is good or bad for for counting. Yeah. No. And let's let's think about who would Donald Trump want for his own purposes,

because that will be a key factor, I think, in who gets this, this nomination or it and it may work. actually against that person, but but it's going to be a factor. So who do we have who's who's who's our 2028. Republican Party line up? Well, I've hate to say it's a rum punch, Michael. It is a rum punch. Well, it's Vance, certainly it's Vance.

Rubio. Rubio already setup. So Vance and Rubio are already set up. Is it is Hegseth. you know, I would say, Hegseth in his own mind is definitely wrong. And then the interesting what I mean, the interesting, the interesting wildcard in there are a number of wildcards is Tucker Carlson. And and we ought to talk about that because I have some insight into that,

because I have directly discussed this subject with him. Okay. Well, definitely. Tucker. Also, RFK junior completely. I mean, that is, is and and. and they are two I have some firsthand experience. and clearly, clearly this is his singular opportunity. Have you. considered that your private info, like your home.

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Just go to incognito.com/beast. or click the link in the episode description box. Last week, I interviewed the author of RFK. junior, a new biography of him and what makes it really, what makes it actually a riveting read. is that Isabel Vincent, the author, was given, by RFK Junior's second wife, Mary, given by a friend of Mary's,

his diaries over, I think 20 years. in these diaries around this is not this is not new. No, we we haven't actually seen as much of him writing about himself. What she does in the diary is weave his life through the book. But she comes back to the diaries where he's reflecting on. this is a New York Post reporter, right? This is a new post which I would completely discount anything there. These are. This is, this is not these are not serious people.

These are not knowledgeable people. They are toxic people. Okay. Well, what I will say is that she uses chunks of the diary, which make him to be. an extremely interesting, complicated, tragic, flawed character. But what you get is a lot of his reflection. on on his own behavior, motivations, and struggles. You mentioned Tucker, who has a a media base.

There's also Marjorie Taylor Greene, who I think I mean, she says she's recommending Tucker. I think in her mind, she sees herself as. No, I mean, it's kind of kind of extraordinary. And you see, by, by getting out of, of quitting Congress, she has she has, magnified her media presence. I mean, you you cannot go. You cannot go. A social media moment without. without in, encountering MTG.

Well, MTG is definitely going to be a candidate. I think, and probably thinks of herself as, as a vice presidential candidate to Tucker because she seems to be backing him. Then of course, there is another outlier, but then they're all a bit outlier ish. Don junior, do you think Don junior could be a candidate? Does he see himself as a candidate, as Don? Does Donald Trump see him as a candidate? You know, it's the question is, would he be useful.

to Donald Trump senior. And maybe. will it be useful for the grift? Will it be useful for the grift? But let's think about this in terms of the well, the grift is part of part of the legacy the grift is part of. And think of it in terms of Donald. Donald Trump senior remaining Donald Trump senior. The most, important person in the Republican Party,

the person with the, the the most the most significant. voice outside of the white House. or and and arguably when Joe Biden was the president, Donald Trump still was the most significant voice, if not in the white House, certainly, hovering over the white House. Well, that that as far as we know, that feels like that would be the main. Yeah, I we've left I would add Steve Bannon to that list.

This is Steve, Steve Bannon as president. Yes I mean well Steve Bannon as a candidate. Remember. You know there is there is reason to run for president, which is not necessarily, winning the nomination no less. The presidency. Right. It's to influence positioning statements. It's to make money. It's to get more attention. It's to build, say, opportunistic move.

It's one of the great opportunistic moves of of, of of our day and age. And to lose is, is, you know, to lose you just is to win is still to win. Yes. And, you know, when Donald Trump set out on this, an unimaginable journey that we are. now all on, he certainly did not expect to win. No. Well, and the opening of Fire and Fury has him incredulous that he's won.

And Melania is crying, and I think Rupert Murdoch. is on the phone calling him, and he's also incredulous. And his tragedy is, of course, that he wanted to make a president. The president he made was Donald Trump, who he hates. All right. So should we start with JD Vance? I'm sure that obviously there will be other characters, but, and maybe, maybe. Kristi Noem does Kristi Noem emerge with Corey Lewandowski as a kind of, you know, sheep dog, nudging her into the presidential candidate corner?

Well, if if so, that would, I think that there are some things to risible, even for our time. And that might be one, I wonder. I mean, you know, it is not disqualifying to grab them by the pussy. So the fact that she spent a quarter of $1 billion on a, on an advertising campaign means everybody knows who she is. Oh, yeah. No, I have apps. Absolutely. But, I can't.

I can't. imagine that one made a failure, possibly, of my imagination. I mean, as as so many of these these people have been well known, we wouldn't have predicted that any of these people, especially RFK junior, would make it to the cabinet. But there they are. So they're obviously all saying, you know what? What does a what is the phrase what does a senator say. to himself when he looks at himself in the mirror in the morning, Mr. President? Yeah. Good morning, Mr. President.

So I think we have cabinet ministers who are also, also going. Mr. president, let's start with JD Vance. Well, you know, I mean, JD Vance, I think it's almost a little tragic. because he is set up to be the successor to Donald Trump. And that's, that's that's tragic. On, on on two fronts. Donald Trump. most likely will not let anyone be his successor, number one, but number two, JD Vance, whom.

who might at some point and JD Vance is 41 years old, and he might at some point be a seasoned enough politician, but he clearly is not. Now, he clearly is a kind of, he always seems at somewhat at a loss, somewhat, you know, somewhat. transparent in his in his efforts. to please whoever he has to please, somewhat.

callow in, in, in, in how he's in how he's presented, how he presents himself. It's a it's a kind of, you know, you kind of look away when you see JD Vance. Why? Because you feel he's just selling himself out. I feel I think I think you do you feel sorry for him? You feel him? Him? Flailing. You feel him flailing. I mean, I can't help wonder what the conversations are.

that he has at night in bed with Usher Vance. If they still sleep in the same bed about what on earth is happening? Does he does he still have access to the part of JD. Vance that said Trump is America's hit? Oh, I think all of these things. Yeah. I mean, he can't or but or has. he just completely swallowed the Kool-Aid and now he really believes in Trump? Oh no. No.

Well that's easy. Nobody really believes in Trump. Another I mean, nobody who has firsthand access to him. You you just you see what he is and everybody does see. and everybody has, has and I mean, JD Vance is not a stupid man. He has an amount of clarity. What he does with that, however, is, is another story. You know, he's been thrust into this, into this position. because of Silicon Valley money,

primarily because of Silicon Valley money. And and now it's like, okay, maybe I'll get to be president. You know, I, I'm not I mean, it's it's literally, you know, looking the gift horse in the mouth, but he just is. He's he's not good enough. He's not good. You know, in and people don't don't like him. Right. He's not a retail policy. I mean, I mean, he's he's everybody is suspicious. Everybody has his number.

Everybody has his number. But I can't help wondering, you know, will. he end up just writing a book about this whole experience? And and he will have seen Trump for what he is. Or does he, as you say, he's 41. Does he take ten years out and then make some money and then come back and. No. Well, I think I think what what I mean, he has to play this now. here's what's going on in, in his mind.

How do I play this to my best long term advantage. Is it better for me to not get the nomination. and let somebody else fail and go down? Is it better for me to get the nomination. and and and lose the presidency? Do I really have a shot at becoming the president if I get the nomination? And what is what's the barring becoming president?

What's the next best thing in terms of. in terms of his long term future? And I can't. help feeling as well that, you know, so much of what. Trump did last week where he's imagining that he's Jesus on AI. and he's going after the pope, is to do with the fact that JD Vance. has a book coming out about how he returned to the church. It's called communion, obviously.

His first book, Hillbilly Elegy, did very well, so this one will do well, too. And you can't help wondering if, if literally the reason that the Trump. picked a fight with the Pope was to upstage ticket to JD Vance. I mean, good work. That's a good one. I think. All right, so what about Marco? Little Marco, little Marco Rubio, who's walking around in the shoes. that Trump bought for him, which are clearly several sizes too big.

And so he's sort of shuffling awkward. Well, you know, this is Marco Rubio has run for president before, unsuccessfully. He's probably the person. most identified now with this. Well, the I would the the three people most identified with this, with this unpopular war are Trump, Rubio and Hegseth. I mean, I don't think, you know, and this could still go very, very, very wrong.

It is in the process of going even longer than it has gone so far. So what does that do to, to Rubio? How does Rubio, who is not a manga person? So, I mean, that seems a it. seems like a complicated sell to me. He's a his base is. is traditional rhino types.

But he has to be able to anyone who gets the Republican nomination, who is going to prevail in Republican primaries has to speak to the MAGA. And so how's that going to happen? I don't know. Well, could he is there a scenario. where Rubio could win without much of a Maga base, where he, he, you know, enlivens, the Latin vote?

He, appeals to normal Republicans, or non Trumpers, the Never Trumpers. And he has a neo con. You want do you want me to answer big enough to get him arrested? No. I mean, I mean, that base doesn't really exist anymore. I mean, we don't know what the Republican base. would just become, but aren't they just independent voters at this? No, no. This is I mean,

I mean, that has been the I mean, what we have seen the entire. the narrative of the last ten years has been that the Republican base, the traditional Republican base, isn't there anymore. Where is it gone? I don't know, the the traditional. Republican base is is, is is this new who know the MAGA. populist evangelical, whatever you want to call it.

It is not the, the, the base out of which Marco. Rubio has, has, Marco Rubio. Well, which Mark has grown. Okay. So would Marco Rubio, in theory, appeal to independent places? Yeah. Well, I that's not enough. Independent voters is not, you know, independent voters is is is only your, your add on and they independent motor vote. voters might get you across the finish line.

But they're not going to get you to be number. one in a Republican primary. Right? I know I was thinking ahead for primary. All right. So that's not okay. It's yeah. So I he I would say now what if Trump got behind. Rubio I, I don't know I don't see it at. you know I just. well also if he got behind him, he would still stab him in the, in the chest. and in the back,

but it might be his way to stab somebody else by getting behind Rubio. But I don't know, that's that's I just don't think that at this point. in Republican time there we are going to revert to a norm. Okay. Well, Pete Hegseth is definitely not reverting to a norm. I mean, I'm astonished still that he's in charge of the world's. largest military, given that he got you know, let go.

by two veteran associations that he was working with, repeated claims of drunkenness on the job, inappropriateness on the job. His own mother wrote him a note saying you are an abuser of women, which she later took back when it looked like he might get a, a big job running the world's greatest military. Please tell me it can't be Pete Hegseth. I mean, he has, in common with Trump, a television background, a little bit of a television background,

certainly not as big as Trump's, but he was a co-host on Fox. But, you know, he's one of those cannot remember who prevails. in these kinds of races is is. has as much to do with who fails. So, is is Pete Hegseth. a somehow because he's a, because he's a performer. Because he's, he seems shameless. Because he's because he's,

pro-military in some in some, in some, you know, comical way. Does does this make him someone who's. who can be a number 2 or 3. and then number one into fall and he rises? Unlikely, but not impossible. Oh, that's a terrible scenario.

That is just a terrible scenario that Pete Hegseth rises. and could become president. Man, it's just horrifying. I'm still convinced that there was something in his drink. when he addressed the military, and he had that weird cup of coffee. with him who takes a cup of coffee when they addressed the generals. I've always thought it's a ridiculous idea that someone would announce if I. if I get this job, I'm going to stop drinking and spent my lifetime drinking.

But if I get this job, I won't have another drink. That's right. I have famously been carried out of work events too drunk to walk. And I will stop drinking when I do this next job. Yeah. So. Yeah. The only thing he has is is a look. He has a look. I don't like his look, but he has a look. No. And just, you know, I mean, shamelessness is.

is not to be underrated here, never to be underrated. RFK, as we're recording, this is still in the cabinet, though. There's been a lot of talk about him. being let go, but he's certainly quietened down. So he understands that he could be a liability for Trump. And he's going onto his own podcast to posit his crazy fairness. I think that he has I mean, so far, what do we know about RFK Jr? I mean, I mean, in broad, broad strokes.

Here is a person who who a who has spent his life, his adult life, his entire life in, in a rudderless mode. He had a whole set of these expectations, which he, which he could not meet, which he ran from which he undermined, you know, self-destructive in every way. And then at the age of 70,

he decides to run for president. and it resurrects almost because there's nothing else he can do, by the way. Yeah, well, he could have gone on and and and just, you know, whatever hit on women and, you know, taken whatever drugs he takes. Well, I don't think that mutually exclusive. Yeah. They're not mutually exclusive, of course. And, but at any rate he so he runs for, for president. and and remember, so the reason he runs for president.

is that he's convinced to do this by Roger Stone and Steve Bannon. And he runs first for the Democratic nomination. So Roger Stone and Steve Bannon think, oh, that's a fun thing. He will be a he'll run against Biden. He'll be a spoiler. He'll, he'll help reveal all. of Biden's weaknesses. And. and and he'll show, you know, he'll get he'll get big numbers because he, he's a Kennedy.

And that too will show how weak Biden is. And and to some extent, all of that happens. Roger Stone and Steve Bannon, their plan comes to fruition. The thing that they don't plan on. is that Hill. Hill. Is that RFK Jr. Really likes running for president and, and we can get to the Olivia nutsy of it all.

But he likes running for president. And when he realizes he's not going to get the Democratic nomination, he merely announces that he is going to run as an independent. for president so he can keep going, forever. And, he takes a big chunk of voters from Trump. and a big chunk of voters from Biden. Well, a big chunk is an exaggeration, isn't it? Because at his best, wasn't he only somewhere with around 15?

Well, that's a big, big chunk in presidential politics. Well, well, as a third party candidate, it's enough to swing it. one way or the other. But I thought that no one could figure out which way. he was going to swing it. That's a huge and destabilizing amount of, amount of of the electorate, if you can get it. But the, the, the thing was that he had taken from a sort of equal amount. from the Republicans and an equal amount from the Democrats.

Then when, when Biden dropped out and Harris stepped in, all of those, those functionally protest. voters went back to the Democrats. So, so after that, after Harris, during the campaign, he was only taking votes from the Republicans, which is why. they had to make a deal with him. And the deal they made was, was that he would join the cabinet.

But this is. fantastic for him, this guy who did nothing. Oh, wastrel. All right. No, no, no, a figure, a, you. know, a joke, suddenly is, assumes national importance. And so the point of this is, is that, of course, he's going to run. What? What does he have to lose? It is worked for him. So, yes. RFK Jr, using the Kennedy name,

using his anti-vax MAGA credentials. Is going to run for president of the United States. on the Republican in the Republican Party, right? Right. I mean, the whole journey, you couldn't make it up. If you read it in a novel, you'd say, this doesn't make any sense. I don't believe this character. He's a he's possibly the most flawed person in the race,

as we know, he's a former heroin addict who, you know. who? Again, a strange bedfellow for Donald Trump. Donald Trump, who says he's a germaphobe. And there is RFK junior openly talking about having snorted coke off. a toilet seat. Right. And it's just the name. I mean, RFK junior has one, of course. I mean, he has the, the the Kennedy name and then added to it this anti-vax thing. And he has a he clearly has a charisma.

I, I've never met him. You've met him or I think I've seen him at galas and things. But by then I just always thought he was a sort of washed up heroin addict. But you have had experience with him. and seen his charisma, especially with women in action. I have and in I've been personally impressed by him. and and drawn. to him, only to be, by the way, repelled there. But the the repelled by repelled by him.

I mean on, on, on lots of levels because she thought he was. He seems crazy. Well, I'll I'll never forget you telling us about his night. terrors, that at one point, you were sharing a room with him when you were on democratic duty. You were writing about him supporting his uncle. who was running for president, Ted Kennedy in Alabama. And you drove round Alabama together. Sometimes staying with local Democratic Party activists. And he would have night terrors when you were sharing.

Yeah, I might have been you, but I think it was probably. a culmination of the heroin and obviously his his own tragic back. And I found all of, you know, the whole. that whole Kennedy thing, when you get up close to it is, is pretty toxic. So it seems very broken. Yeah. I mean, they seem I mean, each of these people I have met. and I'm of of that generation, are.

assholes. Actually, I would say, and it's interesting, you know, I, I did watch this the, the Ryan Murphy. love story, about JFK Jr. And I thought that was an incredibly vivid. and probably accurate picture of the Kennedy family. Every one of these people, people, who, who Carolyn Bessette had to interact.

with were clearly assholes. Well, there's some fascinating anecdotes. in the biography which I referenced earlier, RFK Jr. Where they're so unpleasant to other people. And there's a bit where, they're wondering. if someone will give if if a Kennedy will give Carolyn Bessette a eulogy. And, I think it's at it's at Schlossberg. Caroline Kennedy, whose husband, who also seems a bit of a pale,

says Kennedy, is don't eulogize non Kennedys and this sort of. the the weirdness of. them all having bought into the Kennedy brand. Tucker, Tucker Carlson so less of a political figure. obviously no governing expertise whatsoever. And we haven't even talked about these people's competence actually. But I mean, again, with J.D. Vance, zero competence, running anything, at least Marco Rubio's been in the Senate.

a bit longer. RFK, the reverse of competence, utter. incompetence, no competence whatsoever ever in his life. And the incredible thing is, do you remember that whole thing. when he was working at the Riverkeeper, which was supposed to be an environmental, organization to preserve the Hudson River? And he insists on and in fact, breaks the organization almost by insisting. that they hire a man who's been, convicted for rare bird smuggling.

And he's like, he deserves a second chance. I've had a second chance. Everyone deserves a second chance. And people are like, what are you talking about? You can't hire a convicted rabid smuggler. Yeah, to run an org or to be involved in, an an environmental organization, an RFK to his own incredulity, wins over the board, partly by.

just being a Kennedy thing and and then being worried that if he leaves, they won't be able to raise money because they raised money. on the back of him being able to pull in his family. for the annual gala, attracted to the idea suddenly of a rare. bird smuggler. Oh. Well, anyway, competence from heck's missing, JD Vance. Just zero competence. Running anything because he hasn't had any experience running things. And RFK junior negative competence.

Okay. Tucker. Tucker. So that takes us to. Tucker. So. Tucker. I've had this discussion on, on, on, on quite a number of, of occasions with Tucker about about his desire to run for president. And he has done the, the deflecting, but not the denying and, and, you know, in some sense, he is the natural, post-Trump candidate.

How? Well, he's a he's a media figure. What what is why did Trump become the president of the United States? Because he was a media figure, because he was famous in his own right, outside of politics, and because he understood how the how to the media worked. How do you get a audience? How do you hold the attention of an audience, a whole set of, of skills that, that we have,

we have learned at this point, certainly Trump. ordinary political skills policy, policy. background, bureaucratic abilities. So that's Tucker, the guy who who has a, who has a large and consistent. audience over quite a long period of time. Plus he has Tucker is the guy who.

who has probably more than any other. articulated that a basic MAGA point of view. America First, immigration, you know, white people, Christianity, you know, he's put that together into a package that sounds credible. or that sounds, like someone has has thought it through.

And also he's. very clearly adopted an anti-war position. We don't know how the war is. going to play out yet, but as we're recording this, it doesn't. it doesn't seem like it's going to play out well to America's advantage. So he may well have put a stake in the ground, which then becomes difficult for Hegseth and Rubio to ignore.

Oh, it's the Amagansett midday horn. I love the sound of the I'm against midday. There it is. If you didn't know. It is. It is, 12:00. It is high noon in the Hamptons. High noon in the Hamptons. Have fun. You do have a nice life. Mike Lee in your book lined study in the Hamptons with the noon horn. It's just I'm not going to run for president. You're not going to run for president?

Well, that's too bad. No, that's not that's too bad. But, But, Tucker, you know, I mean, I, you know, this is. I mean, it's interesting to spend time with a person who who, who very clearly wants to be president, who I mean, who has. I mean, that's a kind of leap, if you think about it, a leap of identity. I should be president. I deserve to be president. I could be president. All of these things going through a person's mind,

and that's that's Tucker. I mean, Tucker has has, you know, not that long ago, 2016. So ten years ago, Tucker Tucker was the weekend. Fox guy. Right. And Tucker also seems to have we haven't talked about any of these people's. personal lives. So hex have been married three times and cheated on wife. number one and number two with the subsequent wives,

and certainly had allegations of sexual abuse against him, which he's denied. But he certainly paid off. One accuser, Rubio, wife number one for children. J.D. Vance, fourth kid on the way, very high functioning wife, and still on wife number one. And Tucker Carlson seems to have a reasonably wholesome. home life, doesn't he?

I mean, you visited him at home where he had dogs under the table. That's a pillar of his of Tucker's identity. Is Tucker also like RFK junior. and possibly Pete Higgs as an ex addict? Yes. Tucker is a, is a former alcoholic. Yes. Okay, so we've got two former alcoholics. and an ex heroin addict out of four candidates. So. Yes.

Okay. What does that say about the people who are running for president? Yeah. No, that's a that's a good thing. The thing I have to think about that I had not thought, but yes. So this is something that attracts addicts. And Trump is an addict. He's an attention addict. Okay. I want to challenge that. I think it's wrong to promote these new addictions. Trump. Trump is not an addict.

I mean, he is not. He doesn't have an alcohol. I mean, his brother had an alcohol problem. He doesn't, you know, Trump has has, I suppose, to his credit, I mean, never he's yeah. He's never, he's never had a drink. He's never smoked. He's never had drugs. So. And yet he describes himself as having an alcoholic personality. And I was just suggesting this is a group of people.

who have a lot of familiarity with addiction to alcohol and drugs. And I find that interesting and that they all want to be president. That's all I'm saying. Let us introduce Papa, Papa, a woman, into the group. Marjorie Taylor Greene, a blond woman, no less. So extraordinary story. All of these stories. Extraordinary. Where did these people come from? They all come out from under a rock.

I mean, more involuntary Taylor Greene, this is. I mean, even even even that. We should be spending a second talking about Marjorie Taylor Greene is, And yet she's busy running around saying. that Trump is not fit for the job, that those in the cabinet are complicit. Those around him are complicit in his insanity. So she comes to power by absolute, slavish devotion to Trump.

and saying crazily bizarre, crazily bizarre things. But at the center of this, you know, I will die for Donald Trump now, right? She in this new phase of her career, it is the exact opposite. So it's just I mean, it's a. well she's just flipped the opposite to JD Vance. So JD Vance says Trump is the new Hitler and then is subsumed and seduced. and elevated by proximity to Trump. She is elevated initially by proximity to Trump and doesn't get any further.

And and may truly believe that he is insane at this point. And so she's flips the other way and is now an anti Trump candidate. She's promoting Tucker to be president. I suspect that she wants to be his vice president. The difference is that I mean Vance is trying. is is proceeding along a relatively traditional. political alignment and realignment.

Marjorie Taylor Greene this is strictly, I mean, her, her road is a media road she came to, you know, her slavish devotion was a was a, you know, was selling. That's the way she sold herself to the media or, you know, remember, she caused a commotion in one of Biden's, state of the, you know, state of the Union. I mean, that was just some, media play.

and, and, and now in order. So she's left Congress in order to continue as a media person. She does that by being an anti-Trump person. She would not get nearly so much of the attention she wouldn't get. any attention if she merely continued on a I love Donald Trump line. So this is is that that's the game she's playing. How to get attention. She's not a political figure. She is like like Tucker, waging a campaign.

outside of of the traditional political road. Right. And then what about Donald Junior? Well, you know, I mean, from a. a standard point of name recognition. I, you know, he would probably go to the head of the field. And let's assume that he had the. the complete support of his father.

You know, I think that that could be pretty, pretty convincing. And we know that Trump is obsessed. by the canids and wants his own version. Well, I wish that I would dynastic. I you know, I don't really think Trump thinks in those kinds of legacy terms. I think he's I think actually inside his head, I mean, he sees his his own children competing with him, or as a, as a danger to him as much as anyone else.

I mean, the idea that he would share the Trump name and legacy. with one of his children, you know, one of one of his frequent riffs was, you know, he often says terrible things about his children, including. Don junior in one of his frequent riffs. In the past has has been has been. I really regret giving him my name. No. Oh, yes.

I guess when I was referring to the Kennedy, though, I meant the the way that he stages the family at rallies. and events and indeed when he's, you know, won the presidency, that there is this sort of phalanx of family around him. He's obviously in the center, and that feels like an echo. That's not something that other, you know, the Kennedy enterprise. was one of legacy, if not me, you.

When I'm done, then you and this next generation. and that next generation, and and that's that really is. not a not a way to, I mean, I mean, Trump is much more after me. The deluge. What is Trump. like as a father to Donald Junior is a ship. I mean, an absolute complete shit. There's no father Lee anything there. He is treated treats all of has treated all of his children.

as as I mean their as employees. They're, you know, nothing. I mean, tragic. Tragic. And and they're, I mean, I mean, says terrible things about them, dismisses them. You know, when God, when God hand that our brains. mine weren't in the front, you know, that kind of stuff. Really? Oh, God. Could couldn't, could not be worse.

And what does he say about Donald specifically? Like, Don is the oldest, obviously. So he seems the most likely. He seems better with the crowd than Eric Trump. Ivanka has already taken herself out of the running. Tiffany seems anxious to be in every photo that she can be. And then, of course, there's Barron, the mystery child who. is so tall that. he should be easy to spot, and yet he seems invisible wherever he is.

But but how does Trump single out Don junior? Well, think. What do you mean? Has he single met? What is what? Terrible. Well, what to say about him? It's a constant kind of. Yeah, exactly. Including saying to anyone who will listen, I am, you know. Oh, God, I really regret giving that guy my name. I mean, it was. It's terrible. I mean, it's just the economy. All right, I mean, all of these these, you know, his children, in their own way, are kind of.

I mean, certainly the sons kind of broken by their relationship. with him. Is Don junior competent? Of course not. Wait, wait, wait. Okay, what what, you know, I mean, he's a lackey. He has. He has spent his life as his father's lackey. He's spent his life in a in a business that is of of of,

you know, very little consequence except to support his father, who gives me the shivers. Okay, but you think he could nevertheless go to the top of the pile? I do, I do, all right. So suddenly Steve Bannon seems. I hate to say this, but a little less frightening. than some of the other candidates. At least he's run things, although he's he just seems like the chaos. Steve has never run anything.

You but what is you run. Well, didn't he didn't he work at a bank at one point to new work for Goldman? Yeah, I bet for protests when he was a child. Yeah. Steve doesn't. That is Steve does not run things. Steve, what about Breitbart? Didn't he run bright spot? See, you know, yeah. Yes. But what was that? I mean, doesn't it, doesn't he still live off? I mean, I guess he's been able to deal with the others.

Doesn't run things in pro. Possibly is the most disorganized person I've ever dealt with in what? He seems to be a total chaos. Incapable of returning the telephone call in. none of these these things and is kind of proud of it. I mean, this is I mean, chaos is his is. is is a medium that he that he thrives in. But so he would not be a serious candidate, but nevertheless,

he might run just for the hell of it and to provoke everybody else. Yes. And I would say, you know, don't under so, I mean, Steve is never going to get the Republican nomination. and he's never going to become the president of the United States. But, but but Steve has his own kind. of effectiveness and his own kind of impact. And I would never underestimate that. What he is that.

His ability in this kind of. situation to become a pivotal figure. I mean, he's lazy too. So that's the other question whether he would want to do this. But but but again, you know, he's turned himself. into into a media figure and, and he's, you know, he Steve can be incredibly. charismatic and Steve can shift the conversation.

I mean, the conversation that we've been in for the last ten. years is in part because of Steve Bannon. Okay, Steve Bannon has a podcast, Tucker Carlson has a podcast. RFK junior is starting a podcast. Marjorie Taylor Greene is on everyone. else's podcasts. Good point. So okay, so it's a rum bunch. We started with it. It's a rum punch ending with it's a very rum.

But of course. there'll be other characters that will emerge over over the next year. What about, I mean, my, my preferred choice if I had to vote for a Republican. would be John Suen, because he looks like he plays a president on television. What about Mike Johnson and John? Forget about it. Where? What are you smoking? I mean, Mike Johnson. Yeah. I mean, he's a Maga person. He's not going to run for anything. He can barely keep his head above water. You know, and he will,

before then and shortly be defensive stated, I'm sure. I mean, Thune is just from another age. It's another kind of Republicans. I mean, those guys gave up a long time ago. All they want to do is hold their jobs. Okay, well, that's too bad, because he would look good at the white House. Michael Jordan, very interesting conversation. And there is a future post-Trump.

It sometimes feels like what sometimes feels like there isn't a. a future post-Trump for any of us, regardless of what. your party is. But, but let me just add one other other point, because I think it's I think it's it's. key here that all of these people, this will be a fight for the MAGA heart, which is already interesting because I'm not sure that the that the. that the MAGA heart is now and will be.

then large enough to create. a, a political, a national political victory. But all of these people, it's just going to be one focus mega mega maga. And who gets who who. who is the true the true MAGA voice. and who gets the. blessing of Donald Trump, which may be a poisoned chalice. Yeah. And there may be. I mean, a lot of people, I mean, one of the in the fight.

for the MAGA heart, a part of the logic will be. that the MAGA heart is not the Donald Trump part. Right. Well, and there's always that thing to if where the boss has to go, but he can't quite get let go and he wants to come back. And I suppose Trump. well, Trump is probably too old to pull a Bob Iger who left Disney.

and then went back to Disney, after a two year interregnum. with his his chosen successor, in theory, Bob Chapek. I would I would say it's it's different. I mean, from Trump's point of view, it's to return. to Mar-A-Lago as the, as still the head of. the Republican Party, which he would not if a another Republican becomes. the president of the United States, he goes back to moral. I mean, he really enjoyed that in his Mar-A-Lago interregnum.

So he goes back to that still with the Republicans coming, kissing. his, to kiss the rings, still with, his pronouncements. being the leading Republican pronouncements, still being able to rag. on whatever Democrat is in the white House and then, you know, at some point he dies and,

a happy man, I suppose he would die a much less happy man. However, if there was someone in the Republican Party. who had clearly replaced him. So he'll be rooting for the Democrat, and I wonder if he will have built his arch by then. The Trump arch. And whether or not the new president, whoever it is, will inherit the ball. You know, I think it's part of the story to be told. And then I trust we will be telling how he reacts.

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