How Trump Will Cheat to Stay in Power | The Daily Beast Podcast

What causes me to lose sleep at night is the prospect that Trump will say, you know, we need to, we need to take a look at what's. happening in all the population centers in these swing states. and Atlanta and Philadelphia and Milwaukee and Detroit. And I think that there were there were late night vote dumps. And all of these votes have to be cast out. And instead of having somebody like Bill Barr, who's going to call it bullshit, rightfully so, you've got these other people who are going to say, you know what? We think there was I think we think there were fraudulent votes. And so we have to get in there and seize the voting machines.

I'm Joanna Coles, I'm the chief content. officer of the Daily Beast, and this is the Daily Beast podcast. I hope you're walking your dog or doing something very useful. while you're listening to this, but if you're watching it on YouTube. or on your television, you're going to see someone that I am obsessed with. Brian Tyler Cohen. He speaks with an extraordinary fluency and an urgency, and that has earned him 4.5 million followers on his YouTube channel,

where he chronicles the news with a mighty opaque precision. Anyway, I've long been an admirer, and I'm very pleased to spend the next half hour. talking to him about what he thinks about what the legacy of the Republican Party. may be, and also what the Democrats should be doing to take it on. I. couldn't be more excited to talk to Brian Tyler Cohen. Why is that such a mouthful? Your name? I do not know, but I am astonished at your output.

You are like a one man broadcasting machine. Just reassure me. How many people do you have writing for you at this point, Brian? So writing for me is is just me. I write everything that I put out. But I mean. Everything you put out because sometimes you do up to seven podcasts a day. Yeah. It's, it's amazing. what you can do when you sit, when you're willing to sacrifice. all of your mental health and meaningful relationships. I don't believe for a minute I think your mental health is probably. very good because you've got so much, you're clearly enjoying yourself so much.

You know, I'm I'm very grateful for the opportunity to do what I do. I will say that it's gotten it has gotten tougher to compartmentalize. over the years. I mean, I've been doing this since since Trump came on the scene, and it used. to be a lot easier to put my work aside and then to get back into my normal life. And, you know, it chips away over the course of years and years and years. But, now it's more of I have to make a concerted effort to. make sure I preserve some sense of sanity, which I think a lot of people can,

can, relate to. All right. Well, let's come on to your lifestyle in a moment. But you say you started when Trump did. You've got 4.5 million subscribers. You have a massive impact. You have a whole group of followers. What I really respond to when I hear you is your apparent authenticity. Yeah. And also your sort of anger and your, perception about what's going on, and in particular, and if for those watching this or listening.

to this who don't know your work, I really recommend. your, pieces of, Donald Trump's sends in the National Guard to LA. I really recommend they look at your analysis of the great military parade. Just two recent pieces that I just thought were absolutely terrific. What makes you the most sort of angry? I think there are a few things. One is, one is a little bit inside baseball, and that is.

that is the inability of the people who are in positions of power. to meet the urgency of the moment. And I think that that's why I'm here. That's why I do what I do. And again, I'm grateful to have the opportunity to do this. I wish I wasn't in a position where it was necessary. I wish that the people who hid behind slogans like democracy, democracy dies in darkness were able to to meet the urgency of this moment. and to recognize that, okay, if democracy is going to die in darkness, then it's your responsibility. It's everybody. in the media's responsibility to actually call out what's happening. And so often I feel like we we continuously use and that is like the.

everybody in the media will use the same, the same playbooks. that we've used in decades past and try to transpose them onto this moment. And we can't because we're in a different moment. And it requires it requires, fighting in a different way than we have thought before. And the Republicans get that, they get how to. how to how to adapt to this moment, how to adapt to the Trumpism out of it all. and how to fight with everything they've got because they know. that their goal at the end of this is to consolidate power for themselves.

The left in the media doesn't seem to get it. We seem to be stuck in this, in this idea that that we can that. we can, like usher in some bygone era of of bipartisanship or compromise. And we're just not there anymore. And that's not just. that's not just us failing to meet the moment, but it's actually giving a green light to the worst actors in government to know. that we're just not able to do what needs to be done to confront them. And and man, if I was them, I would feel so.

I would feel so, I feel like I have such a clear runway. to just do whatever I want, knowing that my opponents are just so unwilling. to kind of to kind of meet this moment with the urgency that it deserves. Well, you've. you've used the word urgency, and that's what I love. that you bring to your recordings in particular. And also, you've said repeatedly that you think that the Democrat. are just ignoring the digital moment, that they don't know how to lean into. the digital moment. You clearly do.

As I said, you got four point, you know, 4.5 million subscribers. Let's step back a bit. How did you get into this in the first place? Because you literally are like your own one man broadcasting channel. So you say you feel very lucky. to have this opportunity to do it, but you created your own opportunity. Yeah, I, I, I was on Facebook back in early days of the Trump. administration, and I thought that that would be a great way. to be able to reach as many people as I could. And this was before there was I mean, you didn't go to Facebook really, to get your news, but more and more people were coming on to Facebook,

and that was my first foray into into digital media, online. And I started to notice as I was on Facebook that. that as it related to video content, there was no left wing video content. I was only being served right wing content and I live in Los Angeles. I had moved here initially to work in the entertainment industry. Ironically enough, my first job was at Fox. It was Fox Broadcasting Company, but I was, I worked in the, in the, in the drama and comedy departments for TV,

and I thought that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to work in the industry. And so I was in development and and when I was there, we developed shows like Bob's Burgers, for example. You developed Bob's Burgers. No matter what you were on that team. I was, I was, I was at Fox when, when they had, when they had developed that show, I was, I was an assistant to the comedy. and drama manager, so, so all the credit goes to, to them. And this was after you left Lehigh University? This was after I left Lehigh. Yeah. So I came out here to LA.

And so I wanted to be in the industry and, and all of my friends out. here were actors. And so I started getting getting the acting bug. And I did some stuff in front of the camera. But even as I was waiting in the audition rooms to do, like a Doritos commercial. or whatever it was, I mean, just like it just it felt so unfulfilling. And I would be on my phone, I'd be looking at what's happening in the news, and then you'd go into. this whole separate world where I'm like, how does nobody know what's happening. around us? Like the, you know, we have we have crazy stuff happening in DC.

And like, now I'm now I'm, you know, in an audition for, for, you know, the. Doritos, like, whatever it may be. And and there came a point where I remember my last, my last audition, I called my agent as I was on my way out, and I was like, I just cannot do this anymore. And she was like, oh, I, I had a feeling that was coming. But, you know, I had some experience in front of the camera. So I figured if I'm only getting served right wing content, I'm just going to start making this content on my own. and putting it out there and see how it does. And I just kind of, for years and years kept my head down,

posted consistently every single day. And, you know, it was actually the perfect. It was. it was the perfect move for me at the time. because working in the entertainment industry, you have to wait on. hundreds of people to give you permission to be able to do what you want to do. I had I had to find representation, somebody who wanted to represent me. Then they had to submit me to casting directors who wanted to see me. And then if the casting director liked me, he had to make sure that the producers and the directors liked you.

And then you have to get, you know, approval from studios, approval. from the rest of their teams, from other producers. And then I, I've been on jobs where then you get cut from the final product. And so it's just a lot of people there that are, that are in a position to tell, you know, and now I'm in a position where I work for myself. And so if I want, if there's something that I want to say, if there's something that I want to do, I'm able to do it with with full autonomy. And, and so it was it was a great change of pace. from an industry where. probably more than any other industry, you were just waiting for permission.

from a lot of people who are just lined up. to be able to tell you you can't do it right. So you took back control. You started your own thing. How did you lean into politics and how did you decide. what issues you were going to embrace first? Yeah. I, I, I've always been obsessed with politics. When I was at Lehigh back in 2008, I organized busses. to bring all of the students from campus to their polling places. And then, you know, I look, I'm part of the same class.

of Americans who got especially involved in politics when Trump was elected. in 2016, took office in 2017, and it became all I could think about. And I had other jobs in the meantime. But it was it was hard to. it was hard to do a normal job, and just kind of recognize the, the insanity of everything that it was. happening around me in terms of what I, what I wanted to focus on specifically, I'm especially focused on I really love like, litigation. And I love like the the issue of voting rights.

I have a series that I do with Glenn Kershner and Marc Elias, both of whom are. at the top of their fields. So just learning about the law and more importantly, being able to teach. people about the law, is is really where, where, where my passion is. And look, I hope we get to a point where. instead of focusing on the legal issues because we're so immersed in this stuff, and instead of focusing on all of the affronts to democracy, we can get to a point where then I can talk about. here's what we can accomplish, here's what we can do as far as,

protecting the planet from climate change is concerned, here's what it looks like. to to move into, you know, deep into the 21st century with a fully, a fully renewable energy sector. And that's the stuff I hope we get to instead of being able to become an expert. at legal things because we're we're just watching, you know, watching Trump defy court orders. And so what does that mean? What does it mean to go from the trial court to the appeals. court to en banc review to the Supreme Court? Like, I, again, like all of this is kind of a testament to the fact.

that we have to learn this stuff. But I hope there comes a point. where we can pivot to, okay, here's how to hold bad actors accountable. to here's what we can actually accomplish once we do have control of government. So you've been in the entertainment business before. you started essentially your own broadcasting channel. What do you think of Trump as, what do you think of the president? I should say, really, it's. it sounds somehow so disrespectful to the office. just to refer to him by his last name, but, but what do you think of what he has brought.

to the presidency in terms of celebrity and energy? I really take your point about, the Democrats not having fully embrace the potential of digital. What do you think he's brought to it? Because you can't deny that he's a very successful television programmer. in the way that he thinks of his presidency. 100%. I think that and this is to my own dismay. But I think he has. he has allowed culture to shift from the Democrats to the Republicans.

When I was coming of age in politics, Obama was the president. and Obama was cool. Like, there's no way around it. You can't look at Obama, especially when you know. he's running against like, John McCain. He was running against, Mitt Romney. These guys weren't cool. And Obama would play basketball. He was young and charismatic and energetic and, and good looking. And so it it became a thing where I the notion when I was, when I was in college of anybody being like, I'm a Republican was just so,

so outlandish. And now I think that by virtue of the fact that, well, you know, Democrats have a lot of of responsibility here, too, in that. we are very bad on the left at making way for the next generation. And so, you know, the same people who might have been cool 20 years ago. Well, they're still office. And so it's a lot harder to relate to people. when when you've had the same representatives, the same senators. for decades and decades and decades and decades inherently. you're not going to be you're going to have less. and less of an ability to be able to relate to, to,

newer generations who are coming onto the scene. And so our inability to kind of make way for the next generation, plus the Republicans embrace of independent media, while the Democrats were focusing on, you know, MSNBC and CNN. and The New York Times, all of which which play an important role in our media, the Republicans weren't getting. what they needed from liberal media, and so they created their own outlets. But the difference is that those outlets are not, objective news sources.

These are, you know, Fox News and Oann and Newsmax and the Daily Wire and, you know, Alex, Alex Jones is show. And so these are avowed Republicans. And so that created this asymmetry in the media, where Democrats continue. to rely on legacy media, which, again, is important, but these are not on Team Blue. And then you've got these right wing outlets which are on team Red. And so that that asymmetry was just so staggering. And and it took so long, it took until, you know, December of 2024 for us.

to even recognize that there was a problem in the vast majority of this party. And so now we're we're, you know, sprinting from behind to try and create parody. But, at least there is a recognition that the problem exists. And so now it's a matter. of whether we're going to be able to have the tools to, to fight back, you know, and build up our presence where people actually are getting their news. So going back a bit, you talk about Obama being cool and actually that. Obama is an interesting politician because he sort of defied,

the normal time that you're expected to serve. He came in after two years in the Senate, and then he spun out. Right. He's not still around. I mean, it's one of the arguments that lots of Democrats have with him. or one of the beefs they have with him. I should say that he's not very visible right now. But and you make the very good point that John McCain. and Mitt Romney who ran against Obama, weren't cool. Donald Trump arguably wasn't cool either. I mean, he was a bit of a joke when he started. Nobody thought he would get through. What is it about him, do you think that has been so unassailable?

Yeah, I think it's it's it's a couple of things. One, he talks like a normal person. And I think that in an era where where language on the left has become. increasingly politically correct, Donald Trump served as the antidote to that. He also understands that that we're in we're in an era where if you mess up, which Donald Trump does on a daily basis, that the only way to get past that is to.

is to come out guns ablaze in the next day and the next day and the next day. and just kind of offer up a barrage of where. even if even if you've screwed up royally on Monday, you've said so many things Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday that there is not. a shot in the dark that anyone will be able to continue. talking about what's happened on Monday because you've given them so much concern. Correct. And the Democrats don't understand that if you if you make a mistake, if you say something. that's that's one inch left of center and you're getting criticism for that,

they will retreat and figure out like go into it, you know, pull a committee together and figure out how to craft the perfect response. And they give you no more information. They don't put anything else out into the zeitgeist. And so inherently, the only thing to focus on is that mess up. And Trump is ten steps ahead. He's already. yes, granted, he screwed up ten times in the meantime, but you can't talk about the first nine. because you can only focus on the last one. And this is this is a deliberate strategy is what Steve Bannon calls. flooding the zone with shit. And he understands that.

But Democrats are often so safe, so unafraid of. we make sure that all of our messages are pulled, tested. if news breaks and we have to wait three days. before we figure out what we can say and who we can say it to, and what language would be perfect and and that that news cycle has moved on. And I think his understanding of how quickly the media moves. these days has helped him figure out how to kind of manipulate it. And you're right, he's not particularly cool. But I think when you're when when contrasted with with the Democrats.

and how slow and safe and un offensive they've become, well, you know, if if it's between A and B and he's moving. ten steps faster than the Democrats, then, then it's not really much of a question on who's going to win. So did you know when Kamala Harris was in the middle. of her election campaign, which admittedly was incredibly short, 103 days? I think it was. Did you sense that she was going to lose? No, I didn't, and admittedly, like, I'm. not who you want to to go to the racetrack to, to bet on things.

And I mean, people thought she was going to win. because it seemed unthinkable that Donald Trump would get back in power. Yeah, it's it's true. No, I, I thought that she would win. I thought the energy that she was able to, to harness in just three months. was, was really impressive given the time constraints on her campaign. But but, you know, I think the reality is, and this comes with with experience, too. But the reality is that there were a few things.

that were holding Democrats back, and one was the economic environment. You know, not just in the United States, but across the world. When you have a high inflation environment. and even people. who are not paying attention to politics recognize what's happening. because they feel it, and they're going to blame the people in charge. and the people in charge with the Democrats. And so it's as simple as that. In that respect, I don't know who you could have chosen. I don't know that it's necessarily even a matter of of Kamala being the nominee. I think anybody with a D next to their name, in an environment where Americans were looking to punish the D's,

those those people would have failed. And the second thing is that, again, lending itself to what. we were speaking about earlier is that Republicans just dominated, the media ecosystem where people are getting their news and like, you know, Kamala, God knows how much money went to like, the sphere. and in Vegas or, you know, I'm sure plenty of plenty of funds were wasted. But the reality is that where the Republicans spent their money, was was where people actually were, it was on these digital platforms, it was on vertical content platforms.

And, and I think, you know, the the silver lining of this. is that Democrats recognized where we have to start investing some resources. The the flip side of that is that it came at the cost of allowing. Donald Trump back in office. So I want to come back to the Democrats and who you think are really. the potential leaders for the future in a moment. But first, let's just talk about about Donald Trump, because. who do you think are the most dangerous people in his cabinet?

How much time you got? I mean, the problem is his cabinet. They all share the same quality, which is that they are there to serve as a rubber stamp on him. There is there are no bulwarks against the worst excesses, of of Trump. And so you have somebody like Pete Hegseth who is eminently, unequally gifted. I mean, this is a weekend Fox anchor who's running the military right now. And even in the moment that we're in as we're recording this, which is that. we don't know whether whether.

the the attack on Iran's nuclear facilities were successful. Well, well, the Intelligence Committee says that they weren't entirely successful. But you have Trump, you know, trying to save face for himself, saying that they were and, of course, Pete Hegseth. Here's the clarion call. He just parrots exactly what Trump says. And so what good does that does that, dude, to have somebody in office. who is, you know, not there to serve as any anything other. than just someone who's going to regurgitate what Trump says. But then even more insidious not is, is the folks,

I think the law enforcement agencies and that is Dan Bongino, Cash Patel. and Pam Bondi, because we've seen the ways in which Trump has, has, an eagerness to pervert what's happening. in the law to help himself politically and electorally. And so we saw in the last election, when Trump tried to say that, that there were that there was massive fraud in the cities, that there was fraud in Detroit and Milwaukee and Philadelphia. and even Bill Barr, who is not some crunchy liberal. Right. This isn't a guy that's like marching down the street alongside BLM protesters.

This is a this is a pretty damn conservative Republican. Even he came out and said that what Trump is saying is bullshit. And so thank God they weren't able to to basically exploit our, our, law enforcement agencies to lend itself to Trump's fever dreams. But now we're in a situation. where Cash Patel and Dan Bongino are perfectly content to do that. Then Pam Bondi is perfectly content to do that. And so what what what I what causes me to lose sleep at night is the prospect.

that Trump will say, you know, we need to, we need to take a look. at what's happening in all the population centers in these swing states, and Atlanta and Philadelphia and Milwaukee and Detroit. And I think that there were there were late night vote dumps. And all of these votes have to be cast out. And instead of having somebody like Bill Barr, who's going to call it bullshit, rightfully so, you've got these other people who are going to say, you know what? We think there was I think we think there were fraudulent votes. And so we have to get in there and seize the voting machines. And now we're also in a situation where there are troops right here.

in Los Angeles. And if he exports that strategy. to other states, well, then there are boots on the ground, literal boots on the ground to be able to go in and effectuate his plans. And so, you know, not not to not to not to bring the conversation down. But that is the stuff that that scares me, about putting these complete, groveling, slavish, sycophantic, Trump devotees in these positions of power in the law enforcement agencies. So one of the other people that you've also been covering with real,

meticulousness is Robert Kennedy Jr. Do you want to add him to your list? Yeah, it's that's in a little bit of a different category. So again, like what what I'm what I'm especially passionate. about is, is like a defense of democracy, right. Robert F Kennedy poses, poses separate dangers that I think are. just as I mean, I'm the son of of two health care workers. And so so, you know, I have I have seen the ways in which a, the health care system doesn't work,

but b how it could be undermined by bad actors like him. And and you know, I had the opportunity to interview him, before the election and, I don't know how it actually happened because, because. Nobody thought you were working for someone else. I presume. So, but, you know, had the opportunity to to to speak with him. And, look, I think that he has a law degree. He has no, he has no a degree in, in, in, medicine. or public health and especially,

I mean, it is it is outside. the realm of like of, of reason and logic that we would have somebody. at this moment in time, in the immediate aftermath of a pandemic, who has no backgrounds, no bona fides in any of any of any public health. or medicine, that he would be there to lead the nation's, health care agencies. I mean, to be the guy who who has has oversight. over the CDC and the NIH and and Medicare and Medicaid. But but that's where that's the moment we're in right now.

And so it's just one more, one more thing that's at risk, not just at the hands of RFK, but also, I mean, all of these Republicans. who are looking to strip. health care away from Americans, kind of in defiance of of history, because we watched what happened when Republicans went after the ACA in 2017. and and they lost the House in 2018 by the biggest margin in modern. American history. They're kind of repeating the same strategy now, but kind of weirdly, I actually from a.

from a raw political perspective, I understand what they're doing. And it's, it's almost impressive because they know what they want. And that is they want to give themselves tax cut and tax cuts, and they want to consolidate power for themselves. And, you know, they have a tax cut on the table right now. And they want this tax cut to be permanent. And they know what happens when you go after health care. But they need some way to offset these tax cuts for themselves. And so they're going to do it. And they also understand that they may lose in midterms, but that it's temporary. And that when they are given the opportunity to get into power,

they will exercise that power to the nth degree, even if it means that it's at the to their own electoral detriment. And they may very well lose in midterms, but they'll come back. I mean, they just they. they incited an insurrection against the US government, in 2020. And it's 2025 and they have full control of government right now. They know that Americans have short attention spans and short memories, but what they do with power is they figure out exactly what they want. And unlike the Democrats, who often feel like they. they figure out any way not to accomplish what they want to do,

the Republicans say, even if it means it's out to our own electoral detriment, we will get what we want. We will give ourselves a tax cut. And yes, we may lose the election after that. But guess what? Our wallets are going to be fatter and we're going to be happier. All right, so who the Democrats going to put forward who can take this crew on. Who would you put money on if you were a betting person. And you may be a betting person, who would you put money on top three. Top three? I would say that we're going to be in a situation. we may very well be in a situation like Barack Obama, where in, you know, in,

2000. Let's see, this would be the equivalent of like 2005. I don't think anybody knew who Barack Obama was outside of, of Illinois. Barack Obama had had a keynote at the, the previous convention four years before he actually ran. So people say, oh, he was a complete unknown. He wasn't a total unknown. It wasn't total unknown. But unless you're a political junkie who's watching political conventions, especially in an era where not that many people were tuning in to politics. like they are today, generally people didn't know who Barack Obama was, but.

but I think very likely we may we may be in a situation like that. But but to give you a straight answer, if I had to guess from the crop of people. that we're looking at right now, three names that probably jumped to mind. and this is this is there are two names that I think. there are two names that I think, are owed to. The fact that these folks know how to get into uncomfortable spaces, and that is Gavin Newsom and Pete Buttigieg. And we've seen instances where they're both going on Fox News. They're both going on these these right wing podcasts.

And I do think it's important. that we get into spaces that are uncomfortable. because Democrats lost the popular vote. They lost the electoral vote. We are not in a position where we can just stay within the confines. of our own base. Inherently, we have to be able to reach people outside of our tent. One other name that I think is interesting is Wes Moore, and he is a young, charismatic, governor in Maryland. He's largely unknown. So I think that's actually a benefit for him because because,

yes, Gavin Newsom has built up, kind of, a brand for himself as a fighter. Yes. Pete Buttigieg is, is, you know, is probably. the best spoken politician that we have, but both of them have baggage. I mean, Gavin Newsom is a punching bag. for Republicans from this big blue liberal bastion of California. And so Republicans are very good at making, you know, Democrats into boogeyman. And they did it with Hillary Clinton for the better part of, you know, a couple of decades now, they're doing it with Gavin Newsom.

And, of course, Pete Buttigieg was in the Biden administration. And there's baggage that comes with that. Wes Moore benefits from the fact that he's largely unknown. So, you know, but that's again, that's, you know, in this snapshot in time and things can change over. the course of days or weeks in politics today. So, but I would say, you know, in late June of 2025, some, some folks that I'm looking at right now that I think are probably ahead of. the pack are going to be Newsom, Buttigieg and Wes Moore. You mentioned Wes Moore, beta judge, and Gavin Newsom as potential leaders.

What about AOC, who is pretty competent when it comes to handling digital? Yeah, I mean, look, I think I think she is in large part the future of the Democratic Party. I think we should be elevating her every chance we get. I don't know that she's in the running for. I mean, I feel like. I feel like it would be impossible to look at Gavin Newsom. and not recognize that he's running for president. And the fact that Pete Buttigieg, skipped out on running. for the US Senate in Michigan also lends itself to this idea,

that he's probably running for president. I don't know that we've gotten. any indication from AOC that she's going to throw her hat in the ring. And she's also been very deliberate about the steps that she takes. You know, she she, I feel like is not just throwing herself at every opportunity. that she is very strategic about the way that she advances up, up the chain. But look, I think that that and I'm proud to say. that I think she's the future of the Democratic Party. She is passionate.

She is progressive. She she deeply believes in what in what she says and what she stands for. She's probably one of the best speakers that we have in the party. She's able to capture attention, and she's and going. back to what we were speaking about with with Obama, she's cool. Like, you know, people, she's charismatic. People are drawn to her. They want to hear what she has to say. And just being able to to garner attention. in this media environment is half the battle. I think Trump has benefited from it so much. And if somebody as reprehensible as him is able to garner all of this attention.

because he knows how to operate in this media ecosystem, imagine somebody like AOC who has virtuous ideas behind her, who isn't out there trying to rip, rip people out of their communities. because of the color of their skin, who is now out there trying to strip. healthcare away from people, who is now out there. trying to take food assistance away from the most vulnerable among us, who is now out there denying the impacts of climate change, even as insurance companies are pulling out of places like Florida and California. So if you have a competent speaker and you mix that. with with virtuous ideas, I think that that's a recipe for success.

So I have no doubt about about the, the extent to which she's going to. to ascend on the left. Let me ask you then, just before we wrap up, what do you think the chances are. that we get through to 2028 with. democracy still intact? I mean, I really appreciate the way you focus on what the Justice Department is doing. And clearly the Democrats are using the courts,

as a as a form of resistance. as the Trump government over oversteps the mark. Do you I guess what I'm asking is, do you think the courts will hold? And do you think we get through to 2028 with the possibility of a fair election? It's a really good question. I do think it could go either way. I mean, my honest opinion is. if we have if we have Democrats who are willing to fight with everything. they've got and not kind of defer to this bygone era of,

you know, our friends on the other side of the aisle, if we have people who are truly looking to exercise, exercise the. full strength of the party, the courts, the law, whatever we have. at our disposal, then I think there is a world in which we can stave off. what I believe is an inevitable onslaught by Republicans. I don't think that Donald Trump is firing. career civil servants and replacing them with political loyalists. Because he has, you know,

a focus on the next three and a half years. I think that the Stephen Millers. of the world and the rust votes of the world, the folks who are operating. in the background, have every single intention of entrenching. Republican power for the foreseeable future, like, indefinitely. So it could, in my opinion, it could go. And I understand that this is not really a satisfying answer, but I do believe that it could go either way, because if the Democrats don't have their wits about them. and the Democrats are going to to maybe defer to, like, you know,

the the processes of the bygone era and focus on norms and kind of show. some of the weakness that has been roundly criticized in the past. Then I think Republicans will be successful at undermining our democracy. And I don't know that we'll be in a position. where we'll be able to fight back in 26 and 28. The flip side is, if we do have people who are looking to. to leave it all on the field and fight with everything they've got, folks like Mark Elias, who are, you know, on the front lines every day. looking to looking, you know, understanding the urgency.

of this moment that we're in. Then I think that we'll be in a position where we where we can fight back. But look, I it it could it could go either way right now. And it just relies on having people who understand this moment and are willing. to, like, actually fight. with the same, with the same strength that Republicans are fighting right now. Has the Democratic Party reached out to you, or have any candidates. reached out to you to get your help as they navigate the next few years? No, but I don't think that.

I mean, I've spoken I've spoken with Democrats. about how to optimize, like on, on digital media platforms. And I've helped, I've spoken with a lot of, of elected officials in terms of doing that. But in terms of the messaging, no, I mean, it's I'm not consulting with any Democrats, but. I think that the what I've been able to do is just kind of lead by example. And I've been focusing relentlessly on fighting back and elevating fighters. And that's something that I talk about. almost every day, certainly something that I pose.

to all of the elected officials that I speak with. And oftentimes I'll only speak with elected officials. who are getting out there. figuring out how to how to break through and figuring out how to fight. And so I think just by doing that, that kind of. offers some incentive structure for the people. who are in office to know, okay, if I want to get attention, at least just from this one channel, and there are lots of us. in the pro-democracy ecosystem and, and I'm glad to be surrounded. by a growing ecosystem here, of folks who are fighting back against.

what's happening. But, you know, all I can do in my little corner of the internet is try. and elevate people who are actually fighting, who are actually meeting at this moment with the urgency that it deserves. And I think that I think that that's catching on. And so insofar as I can be helpful on that front and say, like, hey, the way to get some attention, the way to get an interview, the way to get. some coverage is to do something that shows that you're willing to fight. If I can do that, then, then I feel like that's me doing my job. Well, you certainly seem to be very successful in doing your job.

Your urgency comes through the the I don't know what. the word is, prolific city, I want to say, but I don't think that's a word. The prolific nature of what you do is deeply impressive, especially to someone who's putting out three podcasts a week. And that's enough. So thank you very much, and I would love to have you back, especially at moments. I mean, it feels like every week there are new moments. And I was particularly struck, as I said, by your analysis of the parade. But then, of course, we've moved on. Nobody remembers the parade anymore.

No one remembers Elon Musk. No one remembers the tariffs because we're deep in the Iran moment at the moment. But huge thanks for coming on. We really appreciate you taking a break from your schedule now. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. They do. say never meet your heroes, but I will say that Brian has become. a hero of mine and I am very curious to meet him in real life. But I loved meeting him on digital Life. I think he's a really extraordinary talent and I hope that we can become reverse.

mentors, though I'm not entirely sure I'm going to mentor him on, but I would like, all sorts of tips from him on how to broadcast effectively on YouTube. Anyway, that does mean I must ask you to subscribe. if you haven't subscribed to our YouTube. channel, and for up to the date up for the minute information, you must go on the Daily beast.com and subscribe to the Daily Beast. We are independent media and our aim is to over report. and under common in our stories.

So if you have been, thank you for listening and don't. forget to be a beast and share this podcast with anybody you know. And lots of people you don't know because, because why wouldn't you? What else have you got to do? Be frank. Anyway, this podcast was produced by Devin Roger Reno, Anna Von Ersan, and it was edited by Jesse Millwood.