How Trump's War Has Triggered New Axis of Evil | The Daily Beast Podcast

You know, there was a time, 20 odd years ago when George W Bush. and making his case for his war, said. the United States faces an axis of evil. Right. I think a case can be made. if you're looking at the number of innocent deaths. and the number of wars of choice that shouldn't be undertaken, that the new axis of evil contains Vladimir Putin. But it's now also Donald Trump and Netanyahu. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast.

It's day three of Israel and the United States bombing campaign. against Iran, and what appears to be war in the Middle East. Who better to talk about this with than The Daily Beast's own David Rothkopf, who's been writing up a storm since it became clear. that the action was on and that the military buildup. in the Gulf was, in fact, there for a very specific reason. We've got regime change, and we've got Donald Trump.

strutting around like a UFC fighter with his hands. in the air, saying only he could have done this. And American casualties, they are what they are. They are what they are. So with no further ado, let's get into it. And just to remind you, David Rothkopf is the founder of Deep State Radio, but he was the editor of Foreign Policy magazine, and he worked. in the Commerce Department under Bill Clinton.

David Rothkopf, welcome on a Monday morning. Yes, ma'am. Last time we spoke, it was all about Epstein. Now it's all about Iran with three days in. What the fuck is going on? But let's break this down into some cabinet component parts. First of all, you're exactly right. It's all about upstate. This war is all about Epstein. Well, you nicknamed it Operation Epstein Fury, which I loved. Well, and that's, you know, if that's what it is, right? I mean, it's it's trying to be a distraction, but it's other things, too,

you know, it's the seventh, a military, adventure. and or in the seventh country undertaken by the president. I mean, I, you know, I think one of the things about Trump is the allies. Right? But some of his allies are bigger than other allies, and one of them was, I'm going to be the peace president is going to end all these foreign wars. No president has ever launched more military, adventures in more countries in a shorter period of time than Donald Trump.

Okay. So seven if you. Okay. So which are which are the 7 or 8? This is like one of those kind of guessing game. So obviously Iran Venezuela Nigeria. What are the others. Syria. We launched attacks in. Right. And. we we launched attacks. Okay. And then we have the little boats in the Caribbean. Is that so? That's why, you know, I think that's all counts as, as as Venezuela.

But but my point and it's eight if you count the United States of America, where he has deployed troops in the street against his own. You know, he says he's and he said he's the end of that wars. Right? He hasn't ended eight words. He started eight wars. I mean, one of the wars he said he ended was the war. between the United States and Iran. And he just started that one again. So, I mean, you know, one of the big, you know, you know, in the sort of. bullshit verse of,

you know, where there's all different kinds of bullshit out there. Yeah. One of the biggest lies that there is is that he. actually, is interested in peace. He's interested in war. He is the biggest, most reckless warmonger. president we have ever seen. David, is he even interested in war. or is he just interested in himself? And things aren't going well at home. And so he is doing what so many leaders do,

which is to take the fight abroad. Well, I mean, first of all, I wouldn't call him a leader. I, I, you know, this is a a big fat orange impulse engine. sitting in the white House who can't keep one thought in his head for two minutes. And everything is about him. Every everything that he does is about how it makes him feel. and what he thinks he can get out of it. There is no process involved there.

You know, there is virtually no national security Council working. He doesn't listen to his advisers, according to the reports. that I hear on Thursday. It was not clear that he was going to launch this war. On Friday, he decided to launch the war. You know, the military always. has a lot of plans, and they're real good at executing the big plans. But I think one of the really important things here, because the United States. has launched a lot of bad wars in the Middle East and elsewhere.

Is that the most reckless war we have ever seen? Because this president is so ignorant and so immune. Good advice that he will you know, he just sort of lurches into these things. and, and, and you know, for the two weeks before this, he was shopping for a reason to do it. And he was trying different ones. We're going to do this to protect the protesters. We're going to do this to get rid of ICBMs.

We're going to do this to get rid of nuclear weapons. When the real reason he was going to do it was Epstein. A and he was going to do it, is that Bibi Netanyahu is standing at his elbow. pushing him because Bibi is also up for election later this year, and Bibi knows he can't win unless he's at war. with somebody in Iran is baby's obsession. And so you've got Trump launching into this for no reason, with no plan. And let me read you something which I saw just now.

And maybe you have a reaction to it. because to me, it was absolutely stunning. So Jonathan Karl, very good journal. One of the one of the really good ones out here in Washington. Tweet tweeted last night the following. President Trump told me tonight that the U.S. had identified possible candidates to take over Iran, but they were killed in the initial attack. Trump says the attack was so successful it knocked out most of the candidates.

Trump told me, it's not going to be anybody that we were thinking of. because of that second or third place is dead. I mean, how incompetent is this? If he changes your goal, maybe you shouldn't. kill the people you thought you were going to change the regime to. In his speech on Saturday to the American nation, he said he was calling on the Iranian people to rise up.

and seize their nation while they had this opportunity. And, you know, he was the only American president. that was ever going to present them with this opportunity. And then he's saying that they already had ideas of people. who were going to run, you know, a sub Khomeini regime. And then it turns out he's killed them all. So again, it was killing his going on, and he would even as he was talking. Right. He was killing them. Right. It's it's pretty it's pretty fantastic.

I mean, we can analyze this from several perspectives and, and and one of them is clearly he is ignorant. and impulse driven and dealing with domestic problems. by acting out internationally, as we just said. But there are other ways you can analyze this, right? For example, this is an illegal war. The Constitution says only the Congress can declare war. He didn't go to the Congress. Even George Bush,

who launched the worst war in American history in the sense of most unjustified, which is the Iraq war, went to the Congress, made the case, got approval to go and proceed with the war. He has he has not done that. And, he, you know, is undertaking it in a way, that only increases the likelihood. that we have more chaos, not less chaos.

I think there was also no Jeff. There was there was also no justification for the war. Right. The stuff about Iran's nuclear weapons. He first of all, he said he obliterated them. So there shouldn't have been a program there. But secondly, all the intelligence we had suggests there was no imminent threat from Iran. None. This is a complete lie. And just because Nancy Mace is going on TV. saying, oh, no, I've seen the intelligence, doesn't mean it's true,

because Nancy Mace is, you know, a pathological liar, too. So, I mean, there was no reason to do it. It was done illegally. It was done without planning. It was done by a guy with the wrong possible motives, with no advisors who are worth trusting. I mean, Pete Hegseth, your favorite, said this morning. we didn't. start this war, but we are going to finish it. And it's like, what? And also unable to say whether or not we were going to put troops on the ground. He got very irritated when he was asked that question,

because I'm sure he has no idea because it's not his decision. Right? Despite the fact he's Secretary of War slash defense. It's it's Trump's decision. And at look it is Trump's decision. And I got to say I'm totally against using this name Secretary of War. But if you look at the record, this administration. this is an administration of war. War is what they're all about. War is their go to because Congress. doesn't do anything, and all their allies in the US don't work.

So here they are. But the problem is Iran is not Venezuela, right? Iran is not, you know, speedboats in the Caribbean. Iran is a country of 93 million people. with, advanced weapons system, with advanced allies, that has networks of people. around the world who work to advance its interests. You know, and.

there's a reason that even though the US has viewed Iran. as an enemy for the course of the past 20 or 30 or 40 years, that we haven't attacked Iran. because the the potential for unleashing chaos. and producing unintended consequences is so high. But if you have this big impulsive blob and you know. he doesn't think things through, that's how you end up where we are right now. Well, the other thing that he said was, to Jonathan Karl, the conversation.

you referenced earlier is that no one else could have done this but him. And of course, what does work in his favor. is that they did get an early victory with the death of Khomeini. No one is mourning him apart from a small group in Iran. So he did get a. he did get a quick victory, which gives him the ability to sort of, you know, put his thumbs in his suspenders.

and strut around the Oval Office at some point. We should also discuss why he was wearing a tie at the fundraiser at Mar a Lago. Removed the tie, to sit. in the temporary situation room at Mar a Lago. And also have no tie. Unusually, when he made his address on Saturday. and it felt to me very like costuming. And when you go back to the Obama photograph in the Situation Room.

when they're after, Osama bin laden, and you can see everybody looking, you know, anxious, a. neither Biden, who's vice president at the time, and definitely Obama, neither of them wear a tie. And I couldn't help feeling that. Donald Trump had studied that photo and produced his own version of it. And of course, JD. Vance didn't get the memo because he was in the real Situation Room, having been cut out of the action from Mar a Lago with a tie on.

That I. you know, I've read a lot of analysis since this took place, and that is the only sartorial analysis of this whole thing that I've seen. Well, I think it's I mean, I hate to say it, but I think it's significant not wearing a tie. I think not wearing a tie, I think, and wearing the baseball cap, which actually hit his eyes. So when he was delivering or on Saturday, you couldn't really see. You couldn't really see his face. But look, thank God for small favors. The the reality is,

that Donald Trump, you know, the a sense of the problem here. is that apparently by setting up, you know, some velvet curtains. somewhere in Mar-A-Lago, Donald Trump thinks he's set, secure, workspace. from which Pete Hegseth and Raisin. King could go and manage this war.

Of course, it you know, it couldn't be less secure than that. It it and it shows how ramshackle, makeshift this whole operation. actually is. The fact that Trump is going in and out of a fundraiser. to give the order to blow up a country, to come back into the fundraiser, to put on his baseball cap, to take his baseball cap. He doesn't go. You know, when American presidents launch wars, typically. they go on television and make the case to the American people.

He doesn't he doesn't do that. He does a recording. He puts it up in the middle of the night. And everywhere you look, this is a chaos producing operation. It is a chaos generated operation. It is about upsetting. You know, I mean, it is resulting in making the world a less safe place. Well, you also missed out. You missed out the moment where he went and did the YMCA dance, too.

So he goes into the makeshift situation room. He goes back to the Mar-A-Lago fundraiser, does YMCA, goes back into the situation Room. I mean, it is like a Seth Rogan version. of the American presidency at this point. that it it is. it is Idiocracy come to life. Idiocracy. Yeah. Right. If you recall that. Yeah, but but but it is, it is,

a man so unfit. to be president of the United States, doing the most dangerous. and destructive things possible. And, you know, if you are sitting at home thinking this doesn't affect me. You're wrong. First of all, you'll feel it at the gas pump pretty shortly.

As prices go up. But secondly, if somehow we decapitate the Iranian government. but hardliners maintain control of Iran. or part of Iran, both of which are likely possibilities, and we've negated their ability. to use their military to defend themselves. What are they going to do? What do you think they're going to do? This is the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. over the course of the past couple of decades,

and they're going to start sending groups of people out to blow things up, including here in the United States, in Europe and elsewhere in the world. And so, you know, this this is what I mean by reckless when you say Iran is going to send out. terror cells across the world, including here in the United States. It doesn't make one feel more confident that in charge of the FBI. is Keystone Cash. Cash Patel.

now, or Kristi Noem in charge of DHS? It's you know, we are being put at risk by the fact that Trump. has the most incompetent group of advisors around him, in, in American history. But, but but let's see, I think part of the problem with this is when you break it down, you have an illegal war undertaken. for the wrong reasons, or perhaps for no reason at all.

That has to do with national security. Absolutely has to do with domestic security. And it's being undertaken without planning, without an NSC, without a real process, without any analysis. What an unintended consequences might evolve into. or of what the unintended consequences might be. And we pull the trigger on it, knowing full. well that our allies are likely. to be attacked, that friends throughout the region are likely to be attacked, and that any one of the attacks, if it hits the wrong thing,

could instantly escalate this into something higher. And, it has economic consequences. Our European allies aren't supporting it. It is opposed. by 8% of the American people, only 20% of Americans. According to a poll over the weekend, 21% support this war. It is the least popular military undertaking.

in the history of the United States. Can we talk about. Can we, David, can we just talk about the language, too, that he uses in terms of the potential of American casualties? There was a sort of moment on Saturday where he raises it as a subject, and then it goes, it is what it is, as if this is somehow acceptable. And you think back to previous presidents and the care with which they talked. about the potential of losing American lives and the risk here.

and the fact that we haven't been sold on the reasons for war, seems to undermine, again, his single. minded decision making process, almost as if he's discovered in Trump two. that he's got a military at his disposal, that he's rolled over. Congress and he's just going to do with it what he wants. And there aren't real people at the heart of it. I mean, we saw three servicemen already dead,

three F-15s blown out of the sky. with those pilots parachuting down in Kuwait. So. again, a callousness and a. recklessness, the likes of which we just haven't seen. When a military action is involved. Yeah. By the way, the three F-15s were blown out of the sky by friendly fire. Even worse. Right? Even worse. Yep. Right.

And when Trump was asked, does he have a message for the families of the people who died? He turned around and he walked away. because he doesn't think he has to answer to anything. And I think, you know, in some respects, you're absolutely right. One conclusion we might draw friends, since the Congress has rolled over. and played dead, since the courts have largely played dead on this kind of thing, since his advisers just say yes, yes, yes, do whatever it is that you want. And since he doesn't think he ever has to answer for any of this,

whether it's because, you know, he never run for election again. or because there will never be an election again, one or the other. Donald Trump is waging the first. Americ American war in the past 250 years, in which the commander in chief thinks he's the king, right? He doesn't think it's the president of the United States. He thinks and and, you know, this is a. an astonishing thing.

There's this pattern to this. The the instigator behind this war with Iran. is Bibi Netanyahu. And he has been pressing the United States to do this for a long time. He is also in the middle of a scandal. He is also facing an election at the end of this year. which could cause him great political harm. And he also can bring war outside of his country. Is the best way for him to remain in power here.

So doesn't care about casualties. It doesn't care about the consequences of these things. And I would argue that, you know, there was a time, 20 odd years ago. when George W Bush, in making his case for his war, got on television and said, the United States faces and this is a term. come up with by David Frum, who's now opposed to this writing for The Atlantic. They had a. he opposes an axis of evil, right. In this work I think of case can be made.

if you're looking at the number of innocent deaths. and the number of wars of choice that shouldn't be undertaken. The number of illegal wars and the number of war crimes committed. that the new axis of evil contains Vladimir Putin. But it's now also Donald Trump and Netanyahu. Wow. So the axis of evil changes to Russia, Israel, and incredibly, the United States.

Well, if these are the countries that are attacking. other countries illegally, producing deaths. as a consequence of their policies, both in war and also policies. like withholding food and aid from people around the world. are doing this recklessly, are doing this not to advance. peace or national interests, but to to to advance. the very, very narrow interests of the leaders of this country.

What they are doing is fundamentally evil. And so this is the new axis of evil. And it is should be chilling for every American that we are part of it. Am I saying the US military is part of that? Only because they are following the orders of the president of the United States, because they're waging this illegal war on behalf of the president. Am I saying the Congress, the enablers in Congress, are part of it? Yeah. They are.

They're letting him get away with this. Now, there is going to be a war powers vote later this week. But we know that it's kind of symbolic, because even if it passes. and says the president can't continue, he's not going to sign it. and he's not going to pay attention to it, because, again, for the first time. in 250 year history of the United States, the commander in chief is the king. Just to play devil's advocate. No one is mourning the death of Khamenei, apart from perhaps, a few clerics in Iran, as far as we know.

Is there an argument that actually, though Trump has acted. utterly impulsively, that this turns out. to be a good thing for the Gulf region? Look, there are 100 potential scenarios. Three or 4 or 5 of them may be good scenarios. If this results in the collapse of the, theocratic regime in Iran,

the collapse of a regime that has been oppressing its people. since 1979, and the people. rise up and are able to choose a leader. who represents their interests. and advance democracy in the region. And they are then able to work out agreements. with other countries in the region that produced stability. Of course, this would be a good thing. But all of those outcomes are highly unlikely.

And even were they to take place, they would take many, many months to manifest themselves. And even if it appeared to take place, it's quite likely that there would be, strongholds of people who remain. committed to the, the, goals of the theocratic regime. who would try to destabilize this government. So there are this, what, 1991, 92 million people in Iran?

There's a million of them, in the police force. About 80% of people are said to want some form of. democracy, 20% still supporting a theocracy. How split are the 80%. in terms of potential political leadership? And who would be the dominant successor?

Well, first of all, we don't know who the dominant successor will be. because there has really been no opportunity. for an opposition movement to grow or to take writs. Secondly, there's no mechanism. for those people to express their views except to take to the street, which is why the police force is large and designed to suppress that. That doesn't mean that there could not be a democratic movement there. But but I do want to pump the brakes a little bit here and say, have you heard Donald Trump mention the word democracy?

But the State Department, when he took over, eliminated the word. democracy in two websites as a goal of this administration. In in in Venezuela. Donald Trump did not remove Nicolas Maduro. and replace him with somebody who would move them towards democracy. He removed Nicolas Maduro and let him two. and his entire regime remain in place. And he is perfectly happy to deal with.

autocratic regimes so long as they're willing to play ball with him. And that's why, you know, there are even some people in the US. who are out there promoting the idea. that the son of the Shah of Iran, who has never spent any time in Iran, come back and take over and, you know, this is another, you know, weird scenario. It really going to be that the United States is going to go. and depose the theocratic, oppressive regime of Iran.

to put a monarch in place. Well, and also, you know how similar he looks to him. I mean, it's almost like going back in time. and seeing the Shah back, only a younger version of the Shah. It's really uncanny how similar they what we know that Trump is super comfortable. with people. who rule their trees with an iron fist and is not comfortable with democracy. And so, you know, the idea that Donald Trump is going to be. the father of, you know, democracy in Iran,

seems really, really far. But the idea that we're going to be able to get there from here. is even more farfetched. Okay. So what's the opportunity for the grift here? I mean, we know that Jared Kushner and Steve Whitcomb of the, Manhattan. real estate developer was supposedly in negotiations with the Iranians. Do we think that is, you know, is this. the Iranian Riviera, you know, 3.0?

I mean, what what is the opportunity here? Because whenever Trump is involved, you know, that there's some kind. of self-interest that, that perhaps we haven't noticed yet. Well, yes. And so let's begin where we started. Right. The biggest self-interest here is to wag the dog and distract from his clumsiness. Notably upstate. Right. But it's not just Epstein. Every single initiative Trump has put forth in.

terms of public policy is less popular. That, or to put it another way, every single initiative. that's set forth has a negative approval rating in, in a whole. So his whole political agenda is unpopular. And he has this giant unfolding scandal that you talked about the other day. that, is is threatening him at every time. So the self-interest, number one, is to change the subject to wag the dog.

Second, secondly, you know, there are all sorts of side grips that we don't know about. You perhaps you've followed the story of Poly Market, of course. And the number of right who made like 50 million. is some huge amount of money betting that this would start. Well who the heck are they. and why did they all of a sudden act right before this thing happened? And how many of them have anything to do with this administration? We'll never know. But that's a potential area of grift.

Also, look at the Trump Venezuela deal. Trump went into Venezuela, got Maduro out, put his number two in charge, has made no moves towards democracy. or changing anything in that country except one thing he said. Give me some ships full of oil. Give me some oil production. And, you know, that'll be the extent of our discussion. And then the money from those things goes into a bank account in Qatar, which, unbelievably, is, you know, in the name of Donald Trump, not the U.S.

government yet. And so, you know, there is something being siphoned out of Venezuela, that somebody is making some money off of. that's not us and is not changing our interest there. So could a deal with Iran involve some provisions? You know, oil, a state oil provisions. or trade provisions or real estate provision or whatever. As side deals, crypto provisions that we'll never see or hear about.

I don't know. And people might say, well, it's outrageous this president would do that. That's all he does. We know he he's profited. to the tune of $5 billion in his first year back in office. So, you know, you're absolutely right to ask the question. And there are million opportunities in this kind of thing. To, to to, you know, make. some money to make it right, to make more money.

And also one of the, I mean, there are two questions I have following up from that. One is, as you say, he's trying to run away from his problems at home or distract from his problems. at home, and he's been blaming the Iranians for involving themselves. in the 2020 election in the 2024 election, signaling again. insecurity around the election, sowing doubt about the elections, which we know is all you have to do to begin to unsettle a democracy.

So your thoughts on that. And then also, there was one person he talked to where he said, well, we killed him before he killed me. And I wondered to what extent there was an overhang from the moment when. the intelligence services said to him, the Iranians have been trying to kill you. There may be, I think he is a little pathological on the I. that people are out there killing. And, you know, he's a member under the ballroom.

He's building a bunker, right. You know where to begin a dialog with David. To be fair, someone did shoot at him and narrowly nicked his ear. Then there was the guy on the golf course there. Well, he appeared to. Well, that was definitely blood. Who knows what happened? But he certainly killed other people in the audience in Butler, Pennsylvania. So I, I never want to be flippant about that. That felt like. a very real assassination attempt, which I think would freak most people out. Then there was the guy with the gun in the bushes, on the golf course.

Then there was the guy recently the got shot dead at Mar-A-Lago. So I think it's fair to say there are a lot of people. that would like Donald Trump dead. I totally agree with the last statement. As far as the other statements go, I don't I don't, I don't know. Yeah, I saw that and people died in Pennsylvania and that's terrible. And the guy seemed like a crazy guy. And and I still think it's a little weird that, you know, Trump went around for days with a bandage on his ear.

that he didn't need, that there's no scar, that he never went to the doctor, that he turned this thing into a meme and put it on a coin. and put it on the back of a watch and profited from this whole thing, when it really wasn't that to rack up or imminent, did that, damaging an attack on him. But okay, let's set aside. The Iranians have said. there was intelligence that say the Iranians were coming from Trump. That could have colored what he did.

But but let's also stop a second and try, you know, in the heat of this moment, to be rational, a little bit and talk about. killing any who, as you say, know there will be no tears shed for how many. do we get to kill. all the leaders of all the countries we don't agree with? Do we get to depose all the regimes. in every country around the world that we don't agree with? The whole idea of international law is that you don't do that.

I saw a very thoughtful commentator on this whole thing respond to a story. in which it said, that killed Harmony. And he said no to journalists. I think the word you're looking for is assassinated, right. And because, of course, let's make the point that it was America. that led to those international laws after the Second World War. Yeah, it was an Em that also, you know, get to the point that Iran got into this situation.

because in 1953, we kicked out the government. that was there because we thought we knew better. Right. And that put in place the Shah, who then ripped off the country for 25 years. to set it up so that how many and the other members of this. theocratic, movement could take over back then and the Iranian revolution? And, you know, so it was America's. regime change mentality that has led to the,

the Shah's regime, the regime that replaced the Shah's regime. And now who knows what the heck it will get to. I think if there's one thing. that we know, it is that we are bad at regime change, right? And and Donald Trump's just not something we very well. Right. And Donald Trump has said he doesn't know how long the bombing will go on for. It may go on for 2 or 3 days. It may go on for four weeks. It will in fact go on as long as he decides it will go on.

I mean, can you imagine Marco Rubio access and having to work with him on this? Yeah. Well, I mean, look, they just say, yes, sir. How I sir, they don't care. Pete Hegseth is too dimwitted to ask the question. Rubio is smart enough to ask the question but won't ask the question. But the reason Trump says we don't know is because he doesn't know. Right? And if he doesn't know, nobody knows. Because everything we do is driven by the impulses of one guy, okay?

There's no policy process. There's no group of ads coming together to try to provide advice on this thing. There is no teamwork among allies trying to reach a coordinated come out. And there is what is going on between the ears. and underneath the cotton candy here of Donald Trump. And that is should be extremely scary. I would say one thing, though, it's not going to go on for months and months.

This war is not going to be a protracted war. How do we know? Because if it were, the price of oil would go way up. And if the price of oil went way up, a lot would make a little bit more money. for Trump. Is this hyphen stuff out of Venezuela? But his colleagues in the House. and the Senate are going to be coming to him and say, wait a minute. Didn't you say you're going to bring prices down. if the price of oil is gasoline is back up at 4 or $5 during the summer,

the Republican layout, the Democratic landslide that everybody. expects to take place in November, it's just going to get bigger and bigger. He won't let that happen. So he's going to fight this, and then he's going to declare victory. because we don't have a bow. We can tie around it. There is no, you know, neat and tidy ending. And then we'll see if we have to do it again. And this will end. Venezuela ended as the first Iranian attacks ended as all. his other attacks will end, saying, well, look, we think we've got a good solution here, and if we are,

we will not hesitate to strike again. And it'll be the biggest strike that anybody's ever seen. You've never seen a strike like this. And so that's the way he does it. He smacks. He tries to use the leverage that it gets to go create something that benefits him. It doesn't. He threatens to smack them again and so on. It's the behavior of an out-of-control bully. It is not the behavior of a president of the United States or a nation state.

So how do the Democrats, obviously, with the midterms in their sights, react to this? Well, I mean, look at there have been plenty of statements. and and sort of the best statements, I think are. Khamenei was a bad man. Nobody will shed any tears from him. Having said that, this is an illegal war. It was a war of choice we should not have chosen to undertake.

Americans have already died. More Americans will die. It is unleashing chaos into the region. It is causing pain and suffering among our allies. It is not helping the Iranian people advance towards a more democratic outcome. It is upsetting our economy and he is trying to use it. as a distraction from his problems at home, including Epstein. And so we should stop this war.

We should retrain our focus on our issues at home. We should. hold hearings to cut through the lies that have enabled this poor, And we should move back to a government. under, a Democratic Congress first. And later a Democratic president that follows international law, follows US domestic law, brings the best advisers in to advise. the president produces wise decisions.

that are undertaken only after the potential consequences are assessed. And returns. the United States to global leadership based on our example, as opposed to based on bullying, greed, ignorance and hate, which is the formula. that is currently guiding the Trump administration. Well, that's a lot for a Monday morning when we talked on Friday, we had no idea.

we were going to have this conversation. You've created a new axis of evil, and in the center of it. is the United States of America. What a chilling, other chilling. Let's say one thing we did know that this was potentially going to happen. I did an episode of Deep State Radio over at my little podcast, true, and predicted it. And Kim Gaddis on your podcast totally predicted it. Right? Kim? Get us. We also, had a, Steve Cook from the council on Foreign Relations,

and both of them had been talking to people throughout the region. And the consensus in the region was a, this war is going to happen and that be at the end of this war, the United States would end up cutting a deal regarding Iranian nukes. That was worse than the deal that Obama cut in 2015. And I still think. that what they predicted on our episode last Wednesday is what's going to happen. So it's all a waste of time, except that you get rid.

of a truly impressive, tyrannical leader. Yeah, but you don't know who's replacing it, right? Right. No you don't, you don't. And we've seen this play out in the region before, as we know with Iraq and Libya. Yeah. And we've also looked with this. Our biggest enemy for the year was the Soviet Union, run. by a bunch of, tyrannical bad guys. And then the Soviet Union collapsed. And rather than becoming a democracy 10 or 15 years later, what did you get?

You had Vladimir Putin coming back and running it. as a criminal oligarchy. Underneath a dictator. Well, look, look at the history of the world. These things do not end up with Hollywood happy endings most of the time. So, David, I wanted to ask you about one of the. most prevalent memes that I saw yesterday, which was that. Mossad was so well organized that they managed to infiltrate.

the medical facilities in Iran, in particular dentistry. And that dentist, Mossad agents posing as dentists had managed. to infiltrate the top, group of Iranian leaders. And whenever they went for dentistry, they managed to implant a tracker. in their teeth. A friend in England called me earnestly to discuss this and say, had I had what. an incredible group Mossad was, because they'd done this, of course, it turns out to be completely untrue. But it was such an interesting, I thought, conspiracy theory.

brought to life. Well, first of all, it's based on one of the great Mossad successes ever, which is getting the the app, the pagers that were going to Hezbollah in Lebanon. and actually implanting explosive devices in the pagers, and then in one day blowing a bunch of them up. Yeah. As part of their effort to decapitate Hezbollah.

So did they do that? Yeah, they did that. Did they did that thing with the dentist? No. But I do think, you know, this is just cautionary to everybody. One of the things that this war is producing that no other conflict. has produced, because a good note is a lot of eye swab. And you're getting a lot of video saying, oh look here is the aircraft. here, Abraham Lincoln on fire, which is one out there completely made up a slob. Or here is this building blown up or here is this,

you know, and people people who people who are getting their news. from Instagram or TikTok or Twitch or Facebook. or some other feed where it's not filtered by people who are trying to determine. what's true or what's not, are doing themselves a real disservice. Just like people who get their news from, you know, a fox or, well, anywhere based, I think anywhere but the Daily Beast.

I anti-masker actually. Right. And by the data, sorry, the DSR network is. we're just a satellite in the universe of the Daily Beast there. Well, we're we're very pleased that you're a satellite. And, highly recommend your podcast in terms of deeper. learning of what led to the military action. in as much as anything led to it, other than, as you're frequently. pointing out, Donald Trump's impulsive behavior? Well, what a way to start the week.

Let's talk later in the week, David, about the Academy Awards. Anything let's talk about anything other than the collapse of Western civilization. Yeah, no, because I was waiting for the question. about the marriage of Zendaya and Tom and how much good for them. they kept a secret. We're rooting for them. We are rooting for their. We're reaching for anybody that gets married. God knows it's a tough road ahead. David Rothkopf. so nice to see you. Thank you for putting it all in perspective.

Alarming though it may be. Well, it's hard to heart, hard to. But I summed it up perfectly a minute ago. We are living in a moment where what's going on inside the decaying. psyche of Donald Trump is the single most important. driver of events in the United States and around the world. And if that doesn't scare the insides out of you, I don't know what else would.

All right, so we promise to keep you up to date. on this really remarkable situation going on in the Middle East. And, of course, the tempestuous. narcissist at the center of all of it, Donald Trump. And I'm really struck by David's analysis that there is a new axis of evil. and that includes the United States. Tell us what you think. Give us your comments on YouTube. Come to the Daily Beast to follow the action. Moment by moment. You can comment on the Daily Beast site too.

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