How Trump's Big Moment Left Him Exposed: Rothkopf | The Daily Beast Podcast

As exquisitely planned as the military operation was. The minute that Maduro was put on a helicopter and flown out of the country. There was no remaining plan. We don't know who's in charge in Venezuela. We don't know who's on our side in Venezuela. We don't know what we're going to do next in Venezuela. We don't know how we're going to control the oil in Venezuela. We don't know which oil companies are going to participate in this in Venezuela. Frankly, I don't even think there understand really. how the Maduro trial is going to play out, because a lot of what they're accusing.

him of isn't actually true. I'm Joanna Cole. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Happy new year. If this is your first podcast of the year, though, I urge you to listen. to all the ones we've dropped since January the 1st. This is our first, however, with our favorite columnist. and the founder of the RDS. Our Deep state radio network, David Rothkopf. His columns about Venezuela this weekend have been unsurpassable.

And he's here from his hotel room in Paris, where he's on holiday. with his wife, to tell us exactly what's going on. David Rothkopf, you're in Europe happily. You're not stuck in Saint Barts. What? Hell? What fresh hell? To be stuck in some Barts, unable to move because of what's happening in Venezuela. And the airspace is closed.

What else? What else should I be worrying about? David Rothkopf, is the world coming to an end? I don't think anything else is more important than the billionaire. Jeff Bezos was trapped and and and, you know, I think. Leonardo DiCaprio had a bad, hard time getting to the Critics Choice Award. He barely made it. He barely made it. He made it. I mean, yes, the United States had a sixth of its navy. not too far away, invading another country illegally to snatch up.

Or, as Trump likes to say, kidnap. He apparently approves of that term. Kidnap its leader and bring him back to the United States, and then assert that we will be running the country and stealing all of its oil, despite the fact that there is no grounds under international law to do that. So that's a little worrisome. And of course, in the course of announcing that Trump and his little henchmen. who were standing behind him on the stage also threatened, the president of.

Colombia, said he needs to watch his ass threaten the government of Cuba. Have since threatened several times to take over Greenland, and immediately before he went on stage, he threatened Mexico, saying that the president of Mexico was not really the president. The cartels were running Mexico and we needed to go in and clean that up. So basically, it looks like we're in for a whole new era in U.S.

foreign policy. Trump likes to call it the Dawn row doctrine, but what he. And he seems to be proud of that. But essentially what it means is, you know, and I wrote a piece for you. which will be up shortly, I think, which essentially is. we have a new kind of Mafia foreign policy. This is our territory. But Don is going to tell his people what to do. And take over. And like the Mafia, we're going to use the fact that we have muscle. and we don't care about the law to do whatever we want in our neighborhood.

And so that's, that's that's where we are. And frankly, if you were sitting right now in Saint Bart's, I would say, go get another Negroni. Go back to the beach and stay right where you are. It sounds fantastic. Why don't I get stuck in some? But I always get stuck upstate somewhere. I never get stuck in some. But your life is a living hell, Joe. So, David, from your Parisian hotel room, I.

I feel the dig that was in that. Okay. Go on. Okay. Come on. Come right at me. I'm right up there. All right. I got, like, one week vacation this year. It's zero degrees outside. It's snowing, it's icy, and I'm here. talking about Donald Trump and a war in Venezuela. So I'm feeling super luxe right at the moment. Okay, but it's snowing in Paris. Come on. It doesn't get better than that. It's the world's most romantic city. You're going to have a fabulous time. with your lovely wife, Carla, who's an opera singer.

So there's nothing to fear, David. But. is this really just now a gangster foreign policy? Is this also about Trump going in and making some money, yet more money for him and his friends? Look, everything he has done so far in this term of office. has, one way or another, led to money for his friends. His chief negotiator is another real estate guy, Steve Wyckoff, who goes into places like the Middle East and works on the basis of deals.

that exist with the Trump company, or with crafts companies or with crafts. kids companies where Commerce secretary let next kids companies, Don Junior and Eric in, cutter they're you know, they're talking about building casinos in Gaza. They've talked about other kinds of developments around the world. That's what's important. They're doing crypto deals left and right.

And, you know, there is no reason to assume that. what happens in Venezuela is going to be any less corrupt. And in fact, you know, the president said, we're going to go ahead. and we're going to take the oil. and it's going to go to these big American oil companies who will run it. And of course, you may recall during the campaign. that he got a bunch of oil executives together and said, look, if you give me $1 billion in campaign donations, I'll do whatever you want.

I mean, that was roughly the deal that he struck. And here we are, Donald Trump, America first. No more oil wars, no more foreign interventions intervening for oil. because they gave him the money and he's giving them the money. So, David, is there an argument to be made here? I mean, you you are editor of Foreign Policy magazine. You you worked for the Clinton administration. This is something you understand. Well, is there an argument that actually looking at.

foreign affairs or foreign policy through the lens of business. might actually be more effective than what. we've done up until recently? I mean, I know it sounds absurd, but, you know, when you see images of the Gaza Strip with hotels and casinos, what if it turns out that business and creating jobs in places. like that is actually just as effective as having conversations at a high level.

about, you know, whether or not a company is going to be Democrat, whether or not a country is going to be Democratic. I mean, is is there an argument for business deals. because it's not like America has had a run of success in the Middle East? No. Look, they're probably ten different ways that I can blow up that argument. So you may need. to give me a little bit of time, but first of all, I've got plenty of time. The reason that governments exist, okay. The reason that governments exist is to provide peace and prosperity.

for the people within those societies, not just the rich people, not just the corporate leaders, but everybody. And if you prioritize the needs of billionaires and corporations over. everybody else, you get what we've got Donald Trump. building a golden palace in the white House, and people in the United States, having to pay three, four and five times as much for their health care.

You know, businesses don't really care about the future. of the people of Venezuela. Donald Trump doesn't care whether the money is going. to go to the people for whom it is the rightful patrimony of their nation. He wants it to go to the United States. He's stealing it. And US companies are going to get a lot of it. And some of his friends are going to get some of it. And the people of Venezuela aren't going to get any of it. In fact, Joe, out of the reality is that a lot of business. has driven foreign policy for a long time.

We've had wars in the Americas for banana companies in the course of our history, we've had plenty of wars for oil companies. We've had wars, over shipping routes. We it's it's actually more often than not that. economic interests ends up driving national security actions. And who suffers the victims in the war? You know, there are 70 or 80 or 90 or 100,000. innocent people dead in Gaza for whom the argument.

that maybe someday we'll build a casino. is no solace. And in fact, is not justice, and enabling some billionaires to cash in on some waterfront property. at the expense of the lives of a couple. of million innocent people in Gaza is not only, disgusting, it's also bad foreign policy.

Because when people are treated that way, unrest ensues. And, you know, so it it doesn't work on any level. from justice to stability. And I think that's why over time, people have, you know, said, let's not do that anymore. But Donald Trump doesn't know it. He thinks he's William McKinley. He thinks he's living in the late. 19th century in some Gilded Age that he doesn't understand.

And he's perfectly willing to do what works for his friends. at the expense of every single friggin other human. being on the planet, of which there are 8 billion of us. Okay, so I'm going to stop playing devil's advocate. Let's get into what what did you think of his explanation for why we had done this? You saw the press conference. You must have watched him standing. What frankly, looked as if he was asleep swaying. I literally thought at one point, oh my goodness, he's going to fall over.

What did you think of his justification for why we were doing this? And then let's come on to the complexities of America. In theory, running Venezuela. Well, first of all, you're absolutely right. Looking at him, he was kind of lurching to one side. He could barely read the words in front of him. His brain. These days seems as if it's floating in an ocean of oatmeal and Xanax. You know, it just. He can't, he says he. I don't think he's ever eaten oatmeal.

Well, I think it's used as a medium. in this case as opposed to a food, although, frankly, at his age. Well, never mind. Let's not get into the regularity of the president. But here the the the reality is that, you know, the. first explanation is we were doing this as a law enforcement operation. Are we doing this as a law enforcement operation? If what we are doing is illegal, if we are illegally. kidnaping the leader of a country, if we are illegally stealing. the resources of a company, this this was an armed robbery.

It wasn't a law enforcement operation. And his justification doesn't hold water, he said. We are initially whether we're doing this as a law enforcement operation. But of course, how could it be a law enforcement operation? What we were doing was illegally intervening in a country. to illegally kidnap the leader of another country. and then essentially conduct what is a giant armed robbery. where we're going to steal, the world's largest oil reserves. from that country and put them to our own purposes.

So what we are doing actually is a crime. It's not a law enforcement operation. He also then said, we're going to run the country. And you could literally say Marco Rubio, tiny. little guy that he is shrink further, as he said that because he knew on who that would fall. And in the days since, he's like, well, we don't really mean we're going to run. it, you know, we're going to we're going to influence their behavior. And they better do what we tell them to do,

because we have the military there and we can cut off their oil supplies. But there is no plan to run it. That was the other thing that really came through loud and clear. as a result of this. I mean, you had Pete Hegseth there pounding us, Jack, about. just about brave Americans. But, as as. exquisitely planned as the military operation was, the minute. that Maduro was put on a helicopter and flown out of the country, there was no remaining plan. We don't know who's in charge in Venezuela.

We don't know who's on our side in Venezuela. We don't know what we're going to do next in Venezuela. We don't know how we're going to control the oil in Venezuela. We don't know which oil companies are going to participate in this in Venezuela. Frankly, I don't even think they're understand. really how the Maduro trial is going to play out, because a lot of what they're accusing him of isn't actually true. They're saying he's the head of a cartel. Called the cartel de la Luz Solis. And and it's not really a cartel.

It's a name they've given to a bunch of people. doing a bunch of activities a little like Antifa, which is not really a thing. They just make it up to be a thing. That's interesting when you're doing a press conference. But, you know, in a court of law that may not hold water. So there is no aspect of this operation that seems to be well planned. There are no aspects. of what comes next that they seem to have the slightest clue about. Everything that they said about the operation is a lie,

and everything that we intend to do following the operation is disturbing on. some level, whether it's a current prime crime, future crime or threat against another country undermining. America's standing, or if we go after Greenland, as you know, Trump and. and Stephen Miller's wife have said in the past 48 hours, we could actually end up attacking NATO. Think about that. Right. And that's, that's, that's and that's like in the cards.

That's like what a follows be in the minds of these people. So just to go back to Venezuela, second, Tulsi Rodriguez, the former vice president to Nicolas Maduro, was sworn in over the weekend. We were assured that she was on side. Then she gave very hostile comments, which may or may not be performative. But now it looks like she's sort of settled down into the business. of running it internally in Venezuela.

How confident are you that she will have the support. she needs to be able to deliver for what. Donald Trump needs? I mean, zero, I have no confidence. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. She she she, you know, clearly was not closely consulted with on that. There are other forces in Venezuela that would think they have a claim. on the presidency, including the people who legitimately won the last election.

Remember, she's the right hand person of Maduro. She's part of the regime that we were ostensibly throwing out. When Trump was asked about, Machado, the winner of the. Nobel Prize, and whether she should be the leader. The white House leaked a little story, which was as cringeworthy as any story. you'll see out of this cringe machine that is the white House. And they said the president decided she was not the right person. to run the country because she pissed him off, because she did not.

renounce her Nobel Prize so he could get his. I missed that, that that's actually the story that they put out, that. the reason that the story was leaked out. over the weekend, that he has a bone to pick with her. because she didn't say, oh, no, no, no, no, I couldn't accept the Nobel Prize. You really should have given it to him. And by the way, I remind you that what she did say was I honored Donald Trump. I dedicate this prize to him. He's doing the right thing.

So she was really kind of bending the knee. But, you know, he's. not going in the direction of democracy. And when asked about democracy on the Sunday morning shows, you know, Marco Rubio gave that classic kind of comment, which is, you know, this this is very complicated. You know, you know, this may be a little too complicated to get into democracy right away. You've also got other forces, though, that are close to Maduro, like the defense minister who stood up and said,

you know, we are a Bolivarian nation and we have the right to control our future, and we will maintain our sovereignty and what we have not seen here. What we have not seen from anybody here. is somebody standing up and punching Trump in the nose, you know, somebody standing up and saying, no, I'm not going along with that. I am not going to be intimidated. I don't know whether that's going to happen in Venezuela or in Colombia. Lord knows, if Donald Trump goes after the cartels in Mexico,

he is going to have a different kind of experience. because they have a long history of dealing with politicians. they don't like, and he won't like it one bit. Will NATO pull together to defend Greenland? Will that cause the kind of pushback that he doesn't like? I don't know, but they do call him Taco Trump for a reason. And, you know, when people stand up to him, he does chicken out. So. I don't know, is that going to happen in Venezuela?

Nobody knows for sure because we don't know what our next move is. So the premier of Greenland put out a statement saying, it would be illegal to seize Greenland. And America already has plenty of rights. and access to Greenland. It felt. it felt very Danish and a little bigger. And, probably would have not very much impact on the president.

Do you actually think that they would try. and go into or try and annex Greenland? I mean, there's zero reason to because we already have full access to Greenland. Oh, wait. Well, what do you mean by full access? We have an airbase there. We can go now to the airbase any time we want. Greenland is part of NATO from a security perspective. It's doing its purposes. But if we want to go in there, find rare earth minerals, dig them out and have that money go to Donald Trump's friends.

I don't know that that access exists. And that's what that would be about. You know, I think it's a big mistake. for the premier of Greenland or anybody in Europe. And by the way, there were a bunch of people. that issued statements like this in Europe. Keir Starmer, comes to mind. But there were a bunch there, the EU officials. It is a big mistake to handle Donald Trump. by issuing a Chuck Schumer esque statement, which is, you know,

I'm disappointed and this is illegal, and he ought to be ashamed of himself. Trump doesn't have shame. He doesn't care about the law. He thinks the law is little people. And as a consequence, what Donald Trump will do. is trample over those people where he stops people. As I said, Stan, and I don't know how that's going to play out in Greenland. If he thinks he can just barge in, send the Navy, send. a bunch of troops, use the airbase and say Greenland is now ours.

And the response of, you know, the Danes is to send their, patrols to send some cozy blankets. and some herrings. Yeah, well, the exact but it sent some some warm Danish sweaters and an airing. It's. That's not going to stop him. And I think that's what he's looking at. He looks at the world and he says, where can I flex my muscles and get what.

I want at a very low cost? And, you know, I think. sooner or later somebody is going to have to realize that. the way that you stop. Trump is you send a message that the cost is going to be very high. If he tries to do what he says, he's going to do. So, David, if you're going ping or you're Vladimir Putin, how are you looking at this latest U.S. maneuver into, Venezuela? Well, I think you're looking at it that that essentially Trump is.

buying into the Vladimir Putin and XI Jinping view of the world. And in fact, I wrote a column for you guys a couple of days ago. on which I called the Putin ization of U.S. foreign policy. Yep. Which is to break the world into spheres of influence. And Russia can have Europe and it's near abroad, and the US can have the Americas. And, you know, by by extension, XI Jinping may be able to have Taiwan. and neighboring countries in Asia. You know, Fiona Hill, you remember the former National Security Council,

expert on Russia, said that the Russians thought. that the natural deal with, with this, Trump would be to say, well, what? We'll give up protecting Venezuela in exchange. for the United States giving up on protecting Ukraine. You can have Venezuela. Well, have Ukraine. This is how we divide up the world. But she wrote this when did when did she right the 2019. Right. Yeah. What was it was during the last, the last Trump administration.

And and you know, I think that's always been the way Putin has viewed the world. It's always been the way bullies viewed the world. That was kind of the way Genghis Khan view the world, which is, you know, I get what I can attack and hold and, you know, you don't. And, you know, this this kind of, condominium where we have a world. of bully states and each one of the bully states has some territory. And so long as they don't get into each other's territory, they're perfectly happy to let the others do what they want in their neighborhood.

Is is is is a real formula. for, eventual unrest and conflict? And it seems to be where Donald Trump wants things headed. And even in official documents like the National Security Strategy, which they issued, this idea of spheres of influence was embraced. But it's all very well to have a sphere of influence. until the country you're trying to influence fights back. Right?

So we have the endless war that's going on now between Ukraine and Russia. Turned out it wasn't so easy to just annex Ukraine. They have Vladimir, Vladimir Zelensky. fighting back and a country that doesn't want to be turned over to Russia. So do you suspect that there will be similar, Do you think there will be. similar resistance from Venezuelans? I don't know if there will be in Venezuela. I don't know what the deal that they get.

They you know, Maduro is running the country and stealing it. blind and, you know, was doing a very bad job running the oil companies. If American oil companies went and increased productivity. from the oil fields a lot and gave a little bit. more of the money back to the people of Venezuela, you know, there might be a short term agreement, you know, are the people of Mexico or the people of Colombia, or the people of Greenland and NATO going to all go along with this Trump side.

view of the world? I don't think so. Somebody is going to push back someplace. And, you know, sometimes what, you know, these attacks do. is they trigger resistance from people who know they will be next. That's what happened in Ukraine, in Ukraine, the United States, but also the EU said, no, we're going to back you, Ukraine, because you're fighting this war for us, in effect. And if the nations of the Americas got together and said, whoa, this guy is out of control, we're going to,

you know, enter into a pact where if he goes after one of us, all of us. step up and help and we're going to actually do something about it, or we're going to say, hey, you know, China, we love your investment here, and we don't like U.S. investment any more, and we're going to block U.S. investment. I mean, China is already the number one investor in Latin America, and the number. one trading partner of most of Latin America. But if they all said the US is now sanctioned because of what they're doing,

and it starts hitting Trump's buddies, that could work, you know, and that's that, by. the way, is a very effective strategy. I recall, as a slight. digression during the war that was fought, in the former Yugoslavia during the Clinton administration, they were bombing a lot of things, and nothing was really going on. with Milosevic and somebody got the bright idea in the Clinton administration. to say, well, why don't we bomb the factories. owned by Milosevic's friends? And so they went in.

They bombed the factories owned by Milosevic's friends, and Milosevic. started getting phone calls like, hey, buddy, stop doing this. It's costing me money. And, you know, that's that's how you've got to, you know, get to Trump. You've got to go to those people who are the big donors. whose approval he's seeking, and he got to make them pay the price. You've got to say, no, there will be no Google in South America, no, there will be no Palantir in South America. There will be no Microsoft or,

meta in in South America. And and and if they start feeling the squeeze, if nobody's allowed to buy. a Tesla in South America, then Elon Musk is going to start calling up Trump. And so, you know, that's another way that they can push back. Well, significantly. Elon Musk was back at Mar-A-Lago, I think on the there were, you know, videos being sent out, but by people, but there are a lot of online pundits saying that this will give license to XI.

Jinping of China to go in and extract. the president of Taiwan. Is that is that on the cards, do you think? Oh, look, XI Jinping has said for a long time, the people of China have said. for a long time that Taiwan is part of China. And they have said that they want it. They seek the reunification and they seek it sooner rather than later. The Chinese are very pragmatic about these things.

And they have been willing to play that somewhat long game on all of this, although there's increasing neighborhood activity around Taiwan. But they're going to. also look at the clock and they're going to say, the next few years of Donald Trump. in office, our best shot at doing this, and I think, by the way, everybody in the world needs to think. about what that clock looks like to bad actors. around the world and say, well, Trump's not going to respond.

So we now have three years. and it's and and the clock is ticking. And so if we want to do something where this administration. will let us get away with it in a future, one might push back, let's move now. And it makes the period of the next couple of years. considerably more dangerous than any period we faced in the recent past. And how significant is it that Congress, or at least the Group of eight.

within Congress, weren't informed about what happened in Venezuela? I mean, is there any argument super duper significant, right, because the Congress is the part of the government, per the Constitution, that has the right to declare war? And not only did they not consult with the Congress. based on a preposterous argument that that Rubio made that. this was a law enforcement operation, so they didn't have to.

But Trump also said, well, you know, you can't tell the Congress anything because they'll leak it. Right. And and if, you know, he's allowed to use that argument, say, well, I don't have to follow the Constitution if I don't think the Constitution is going. to produce a good outcome, then, you know, the Congress is cut out of it. And, you know, I would say, you know, a lot of people were like outraged. on January 6th, 2021, when, you know, armed mob stormed the Capitol because they saw it as an attempted coup.

Well, I'll tell you what a coup looks like. If the Congress is supposed to control taxation, if the Congress is supposed to control the power of the purse, and where we spend our money, if the Congress is supposed to control, war and and, peace, if the Constitution is supposed to control who can be a citizen. or who cannot be a citizen, and all of those things are essentially. erased by the administration, that's a coup. And so bypassing the Congress on this,

is effectively the same thing. as sending a mob of violent people to attack the building. It's an attack on our institutions. And it takes away from the freedom of the people to choose. who's really making the decisions. That affect their futures as as an American citizen. So we've got the it's five year anniversary of January the 6th. Tomorrow we've got Congress back after their holiday break.

Today, do you expect any pushback from Congress? I mean, what what can they do? Well, I you know, it's not super encouraging, right? There are a few people in Congress who stand up and say the right thing. and do it in unvarnished terms. Mostly. And those are Democrats. And then there are a couple of Republicans, Massie and MTG and Don Baker and I think.

that Don Baker, but they're just a handful. that'll stand up and say that they don't approve of this. But they're a even bigger number. who will either support Trump or. who are taking this middle ground. You know, there's a bunch of centrist Democrats. who are like, well, we'll look weak if we stand up to Trump. Of course, what looks weak is not standing up to Trump. Opinion polls say the American people don't like what happened in Venezuela.

And this, this kind of view of centrist. Well, how are we ever going to win? MAGA voters. doesn't understand that MAGA voters didn't want Trump to do this either. Right. It's the very opposite of America first. And it is it's the opposite of everything they said. But, you know, that's because Trump lies to get ahead. all the time and betrays the people that supported him. all the time, whether they're his wife here, they're his kids, they're his business partners are there, his political allies.

So 2026 is supposed to be the year of the horse in the Chinese calendar. What do your predictions for. how this plays out over the next few months? Well, I'm afraid Chinese astrology is not really in my wheelhouse, so I can't tell you the difference between the year of the snake. and the year of the horse and what that on means. Well, I think the snake clears. the pathway in the year of the horse means you move forward. I hope I did, you know, I didn't know this about you know, I heard it.

I just I didn't know that you were a Chinese astrologer. Many things, you know, you are. You contain multitudes. I wish I could. Who's going to move forward? I think Trump is going to try to move forward with this very aggressive. agenda, because, you know, you have to remember, first of all, he has no legislative agenda. They're looking for some kind of things that can help him. win the election later this year, which looks bad for him.

And. Oh, Epstein. Oh, Jack Smith, you know, I mean, just a couple of days ago, Jack Smith, it turns out, went into the Congress and they were just a couple days ago, released the results in which he said, oh, no, we had Trump dead to rights. We would have convicted him in any court of the land of having violated the law. And all of a sudden, you know, we're invading someplace. And the same is true with the Epstein. You know, those things are not going away. So Trump's going to have to keep looking for distractions.

And the people around Trump know how to manipulate that. I mean, you know, for example, I you know, some people around Trump are trying to take advantage of this. Stephen Miller is a perfect example. Stephen Miller is the deputy White House chief of staff for domestic policy. And yet he's now in charge of China policy. And yet there he was on Saturday, standing next to Trump, involved in this issue was the white House chief of staff there? No. Where there are other white House staffers there?

No, just Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller. clearly seems to be the puppet master for the dark side of Donald Trump. And you know, whether that has to do with putting troops. in the streets in the US or putting troops in the streets in Caracas. or, you know, violating the constitutional rights of Americans. You know, this little strange man who looks like, as I said in the article. that I wrote for you, he would rather be in a room someplace. Pulling the legs off of insects is sitting there, rubbing his hands together, going, Trump needs me.

The only way Trump can, you know, distract from, abstain and distract from Jack. Smith and distract from the election is if he does what I say. and he goes, you know, you know, go, you know, go after, immigrants and go. after people of color and go after women and go after the Constitution. And so, you know, that's the horse Trump rode in on and I expect. that's the horse Trump will be riding for the rest of this year. Okay. Great use of the,

of the image of the horse there. Thank you. I appreciate you staying with my, with my Chinese astrology theme. JD Vance was very clearly missing from the press conference on Saturday. We had Pete Hegseth, who read and didn't go a word off script. We had Trump, who only went off script, apparently including, surprising the team up there that we're going to run Venezuela. And then Marco Rubio seemed, at least to speak off the cuff.

confidently about what was going on. How significant do you think the absence of JD. Vance was to not have the vice president? Is that good for Vance, bad for Vance? I, I just don't know. You know, could he have been someplace else? Yeah. It was over the holidays, after all. And and and so forth. He's certainly been very visible. He's been talking about all these things.

Might it be the Trump is getting a little uncomfortable that J.D. Vance is clear. The the heir apparent. And you know, there's already, you know, Erica Kirk and all those other kinds of people are like, yeah, we're behind Vance. And, you know, they're already moving on to 2028 and leaving Trump for dead. Yeah, he may be uncomfortable about that. But frankly, the the counterbalance to Vance is Rubio. And Rubio was there. I you know, I don't know, but is that is that Donald Trump playing with JD Vance?

I mean, it felt like Rubio came out with the current advantage. Could be. But I also think, you know, I mean, you talked earlier. about Trump lurching to one side and falling asleep. He always falls asleep in Rubio's talk. I don't know if you remember the cabinet meeting a couple of weeks ago. He literally cannot stay awake when words come out of Marco Rubio's mouth. And I think that's because he just doesn't think he's important. And he knows Rubio do whatever he wants to do. I don't know.

I mean, we're going to have to say, you know, one of the big stories of this year. is going to be when the rest of the Republican Party. accepts the idea that Donald Trump is a lame duck. And how they respond to that, do they go to Vance? Do they split off like Marjorie Taylor Greene? You know, I think this is going to be a very big story of the coming year. I also think a big story of the coming year is going to be when the penny drops. on all of this. For a lot of the companies that have been in there kissing Trump's.

butt, who are then going to say, oh, what if the Democrats win the House? What's going to happen then? Are they going to do investigations? What if a Democrat wins in 2028 and we are seen as a company. that was in Trump's profit, profiting off of Trump? And there is going to be this real existential anxiety, and it's going to push them away from Trump a little bit, and it's going to make Trump feel a little more isolated. And I think that's going to make him a little more dangerous.

and desperate because, you know, you can't hold MAGA together. On the promise of Donald Trump's energy and action. Much longer. Okay, David Rothkopf, it's time for you to go skipping back into the snowy streets of Paris. Thank you very much for sharing. Your wisdom with us this morning, and also. totally referring people to your columns in The Daily Beast. I wanted to read one bit,

from your column yesterday that said, we need to keep our eye on the bigger picture as well. What does the naked do as aggression in Venezuela suggest? Our next moves in the hemisphere will be. And what does it suggest for how we will implement a more spheres of influence. and might makes right foreign policy going forward? Ominous, ominous picture. We live. We we live in ominous times.

There is no question about it. This is a very dark turn that took place over the weekend. It is not just business as usual, even as it echoes with past misadventures. of the United States, because this one is much less well planned. And the guy in charge is not fully with it, and the people around him have pretty malevolent intentions, and he's collaborating with, dangerous actors around the world.

So, you know, this this can be, the worst kind of slippery slope. And, and I think we all need to be on alert. David, thank you for that. We will be on alert. The Daily Beast. We are always on alert. You can sign up and leave a comment for David. On YouTube. Please do and subscribe to the podcast. We're independent media, so we appreciate your support. and a special thank you for all your comments, which we do read.

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