How Trump Is Turning the Charlie Kirk Tragedy Into a Power Grab | The Daily Beast Podcast

The reality is that every major study that's been done, whether it's been done. by the Anti-Defamation League, which is kind of vaguely pro-Trump these days, or it's been done by the FBI in the past, or it's. been done by other, you know, legal specialists, show that most of the violence that's done. political violence in the United States comes from the far right. I'm John Nichols, this is the Daily Beast podcast. What an extraordinary week it's been in America. Is this a watershed moment?

We're here to discuss Hugh Daugherty, our executive editor, who's been monitoring our incredibly busy news coverage over the last few days, and the brilliant David Rothkopf, a former member of the Clinton administration. and a former editor of Foreign Policy magazine who's well-sourced throughout DC. and who can shed light and always brings a very helpful perspective. on really the remarkable events of of the last few days. Huey, what else are we going to be talking about?

Something else is going on this week. Something else is going on this week. Joanna, Donald Trump is leaving the country, and he is going to London, where he is going to have a state visit with King Charles. Baa baa baa baa baa. A man with more gold than the Oval Office. More properties than the Trumps, but much less power than the president. And he. I'm very curious to know if King Charles will raise the subjects. of Donald Trump paving over Jackie Kennedy's Rose garden.

He is known as the plant whisperer. because he literally speaks to plants and he can't be. He cannot be pleased about any ordnance being removed. And. I just can't imagine what the two of them talk about when they meet each other. Well, we don't have to imagine. We will soon find out exactly what happens between them. You mean because Donald Trump will tell us. He calls Donald Trump? Will tell us. Yes it is. There are some certainties in life, death, taxes. and that Donald Trump will tell us, well.

That Donald Trump won't won't stop talking. He will not stop talking. All right, let's get into it. Normally. Daugherty, our executive editor at The Beast, and I would be joining David Rothkopf. in his beautiful, book lined library. But David has had an auto emergency and he's actually at the shop. But we persuaded him to talk to us regardless. David, thank you. And I have to say, your auto shop shop looks a lot smarter than mine.

Well, you're you're you're you're you're very kind and you're very kind. to distract me from sitting around waiting for my car to be ready. Well, we're excited to talk to you. There's so much going on. A new I Will volunteer has been glued. to Fox watching Kash Patel's, tour. It's not an apology tour. What is it? I think cynics might see Joanna. That's. It is a save my job tour. Kash Patel, of course.

Before he was FBI director, had a distinguished career as, among other things, a cigar entrepreneur, a, children's book author, like at Children's children's book author, a podcaster. not as distinguished as anybody that I am broadcasting speaking to here. And, also a t shirt talker. But it was to sell MAGA merch. MAGA merch. And it was branded cash k a dollar sign H.

Right. Okay, so now he's head of the FBI. Yes. And that promotion has, proved a bit tricky for him. He has been the subject of a whispering campaign inside the MAGA world. that Pam Bondi, the attorney general, has lost confidence in them. and that they are preparing for him to be replaced. by Andrew Bailey, who is a newly appointed deputy. So he's been on the on the Fox and friends. So for this morning. And he will be on with Sean Hannity later. And it really is an attempt to save his job is hope people are seeing it.

And Andrew Bailey was brought in as, to sort of job share with Dan Bongino, formerly a podcaster, currently number two at the FBI, because Dan Bongino, like Kash Patel, have long been supporters of Release the Epstein Files. Right. And Kash Patel has been very damaged inside the MAGA world. by the Epstein fallout. He said, you know, he, he and Dan Bongino, when they were in private. life, were inflaming this situation and they were talking about release the.

secrets, tell the truth. They then got the opportunity to release the secrets and promptly told MAGA, oh, in fact, we're not releasing any secrets under on and there aren't. any interesting ones anyway, and we don't like to move on. But people have not. Is Dan Bongino also part of the whispering campaign? It was like Dan Bongino and Cash Patel. probably come as the joint deal. But it's Kash Patel who's definitely goes head above the parapet on this one.

So he's been doing the rounds of the Fox News sofas. Yes. And he went on Fox and Friends, and it was by Fox and friend standards. This is normally. a very friendly environment for the for those who are part of the Trump world. He was asked a fairly direct question by Brian Kilmeade, who asked him, why did you post on X that there had been an arrest. of, a possible suspect, and it turned out that this was completely wrong. This person was entirely innocent.

And he said I was just keeping people up to date. But that's not really what we expect from the head of the FBI. We do not expect a live blog. We expect accurate facts. And. I think did an NBC report that when he was doing that, he was actually tucking in to a delicious meal, Oreos, the almost impossible to get a table restaurant. It's only got, I think, eight tables. They're all already subscribed to people.

And to get a seat at Rose is comes with incredible cachet. John F Kennedy or John Kennedy junior used to have a taste. Yes, exactly. He posted this to this on Twitter at 621 eastern time. And as soon as the doors opened on this incredibly exclusive restaurant, which is basically a private club in Manhattan, he was spotted going in. It's known for, among other things, its meatballs in its sauce. But it's certainly an eyebrow raising aspect of this.

that the head of the FBI was not anywhere near the manhunt. He was not at FBI headquarters. He was not at Quantico. He was in New York, dining in a very exclusive venue. So, David, you have plenty of sources. Not tomato sources, I hasten to add, from Reuters. What you may have was tomato sauce, because they do actually bottle. It's delicious. Quite expensive. It's is rather good. But you have plenty of,

law enforcement sources. Intelligence sources. You are a fixture on the Washington landscape. And I know you talk to lots of people. What are they saying about cash? Patel? Well, no one has really ever thought Cash Patel was up for this job. He has no experience in this area. Really? To speak of. He was primarily seen as a provocateur and as a podcaster. You know, earlier you mentioned that Pam Bondi is losing confidence in him.

I'm not 100% sure that she or anybody. ever actually had confidence, in him. And I think people were waiting for, you know, the first issue to come up where he would reveal himself to be incompetent. As it happens, that's this issue. where a friend of his was murdered, and he both, managed, you know, this kind of feat of appearing to close to this,

in a way that actually may have some legal consequences and also, you know, two out of touch to actually know what was going on. And so, you know, he, he. within the FBI, of course, over the course of the past couple of weeks, as you know, people have seen or months even as people have seen, the firings that have gone on because people were involved, for example,

in the January 6th, investigations, there is a huge amount of resentment. among FBI agents towards Kash Patel. And that's that's only been compounded. There was a that he and Bongino got on a call, which I think you've reported about at the Beast. To, to to say you've got to find the guy. There's a lot of pressure on us. And it was profanity laden. And that also alienated more people within the FBI.

to think that he's not competent, because he's not competent. That's rather depressing. Conclusion. I mean, can I can I just I haven't covered many of these types of events. Not perhaps as big as Charlie Kirk, but certainly having covered crimes. in states, across the country. I mean, I have some sympathy for law enforcement. because this isn't always very straightforward. Who's dumb?

I mean, yes, there was a picture. I mean, Kash Patel seemed absolutely furious that they hadn't shown him the picture. as soon as they had it, and they'd obviously delayed giving it to him. But they did release the photo, which carries. its own burden, because often people come up with false leads. Right. And and they did get the guy. I mean, they may have got him because his family gave him up, but within 30 hours, the alleged killer had been taken into custody.

I think the the the. the cash Patel of this is that there is clearly. he has a major problem with his FBI agents. that they do not respect or trust him. And we don't really know the full truth of this 12 hours delay. in giving him the photo, but he had just tweeted something that was wrong. and badly wrong and potentially set by investigation. So it's conceivable and understandable.

that FBI agents might not pass him material in case he tweets it. Right. He's also aggressively trying to claim that. this was an amazing investigation at his direction. He used the words me, my and I believe 15 or 16 separate times in this. In the course of that, I eight, 7 or 8 minute interview on Fox. And he's really trying to own the idea that the arrest was down to his actions. But my gut, people who are not.

getting behind this say, well, it was just luck. He got the you know, the father turned in the suspect. and that's not brilliant police work. Well, I suppose if he does get fired, we're all podcasters, so we might get offered the director of the FBI. You know, I can think of nobody better, but I think I can David Roth, call. Me David, I think. Would you like to be head of the FBI now? But. But I will work when you become the head of the FBI. And I would be very happy to work for you. Peace.

And if that happens, that's all I'm saying. That that I mean, the cash Patel might be incompetent running it. I'm not saying I would do any better. And what do we think of Andrew Bailey? Potential replacement. Are we currently sharing the job with Dan Bongino? Is the number two? Well. The advantage that he brings is that he he is absolutely, he's absolutely married. Gathers no doubts about his loyalties. He was an attorney general of a very conservative state, Missouri.

But he was a very conservative attorney general. And the ability to manage things is clearly, clearly a problem for cash. Patel and Dan Bongino. As for how he is viewed in national security. circles, David, I'll defer to you on that. Yeah. David, what do you think about Andrew Bailey? Well, no, I mean, he's seen as a as a conservative politician. I think he's probably more in tune. As a former attorney general with Pam Bondi.

and Pam Bondi has, you know, over time, really solidified her. relationship with Trump by demonstrating, you know, herself to be his lawyer, following through, defending him in all things. And I think, you know, cast Patel. got into this because he was sort of, you know, bright light in the, in the MAGA universe. Not because he was particularly well suited to this. Whereas if Pam Bondi got to.

remake this in her image, a guy like Bailey makes more sense. And he said that I don't think he's going to be extremely. well trusted among most FBI agents. These purges have really done a lot of damage. And their, their lack of concern for, you know, the business of the FBI sending FBI agents into Washington, D.C., for example, or putting them on to, you know, deal with Trump.

administration priorities, has taken them away from their core jobs. The FBI has been asked not to really, track. foreign, you know, espionage in ways that it that it did in the past. Other things that have been extremely important, to the FBI and are extremely important to the national security community, have gotten shunted aside because their agenda is political. And I don't think putting Bailey in this position. is going to diminish skepticism that much.

Although, having said that, Kash Patel's terrible choice. and, you know, Bailey is somewhat more competent. So we're going to go from the bottom of the barrel. to a little above the bottom of the barrel. Is that anything? And Kash Patel, about him claiming that the reason he tweeted out, and I totally get that he tweeted out the wrong thing. But his argument that we are trying to be transparently. trying to tell people what's going on.

there. Well, I think there are there are two answers. There's many answers to that. There's two there's two answers to that. And one is that sounds like a good idea. It sounds like a helpful idea. Transparency is a great thing. The other answer is that the FBI are the premier. law enforcement organization, maybe in the world because you trust them. You trust that what they say is true. And one of the big problems that Pam Bondi and,

her prosecutors specifically in Washington, D.C., are finding is that they can't get they can't get indictments. past grand juries, on their chosen causes. And the dimension of trust. in the FBI is extremely dangerous. And the reason not to be transparent in real time. is because you need to be sure it's true, and it's right, and it's accurate because people need to trust the FBI. And if people stop trusting the FBI, then we can't.

You know, it's a it attacks the basis of prosecutions. It's a difficult path to go down for an organization that's been David, you will have far greater historical, context on this than I do. But. 50 years. ago, it was in a disgraceful position after J. Edgar Hoover and after Nixon, and it really has caught it's way back and made itself an organization. People trust.

Yeah, it certainly has. It certainly has improved its reputation from the days of J. Edgar Hoover. But, you know, having said that, we, you know, reputations are easily destroyed. And when you have a, an FBI director who's. going out and, and, and spreading things that aren't true, you know, he says it's transparency, but it's not transparency. If what you're saying is a lie, right? It's not, you know, just giving words doesn't doesn't create transparency.

You actually have to give perspectives on the truth. And they've tried to be ahead of this story for political reasons. And that continues to be an issue. You know, I thought it was quite interesting that Governor. Cox of Utah yesterday spent a lot of his time, on, on morning. shows saying we don't know what the motive is yet, whereas Patel and these others have been trying to attribute a motive, trying to say that this is political work, you know, and,

you know, I mean, JD Vance took over, Charlie Kirk's. podcast today, had on Stephen Miller, and they were talking about, you know, you, you know, the left being behind all of this violence. and turning the power of the government against the left. And so, you know, what you really see here is that there is a move. from Trump and from Miller and from JD Vance. and from a lot of these people not to solve the crime,

not to be transparent, but actually to use the crime. as a justification for their authoritarian power grab. And the real story this week is not mourning. Charlie Kirk is how is this administration. going to use the death of Charlie Kirk as an excuse to overreach, to target their enemies, to gain, more and more executive powers?

That it's it's it's a trigger. And, you know, if it's not quite the Reichstag moment, some people are calling it, it's the same exact game where you look. for an excuse to grab power, and that's what's going on right now. Well, you mentioned Spencer Cox, Governor Cox of Utah, who I thought was masterful in the way that he took over. from Kash Patel at the press conference when they announced that,

that they got him. And of course, he used the phrase, we got him, reminiscent of George Bush talking about Saddam Hussein. And he is a moderate Republican. And it's been extraordinary to see him emerge. I mean, he's been a governor that's been very much under the national radar, extremely critical of Trump in the past. He was a supporter of Marco Rubio. When Marco Rubio in 2016, didn't carry on with the race.

He then switched his allegiance to Ted Cruz. He said he would never vote for Hillary Clinton, but he also wouldn't vote for Donald Trump. And suddenly he finds himself in the spotlight. And I thought he was very impressive at that press conference, letting Cash Patel do his thing. And then leaning, literally leaning on the podium. and saying, okay, social media is not real. Get the grass under your feet. Go out there. Democrats and Republicans have been calling me. that, telling me they're talking about this. We must get together and talk about this.

And it felt very reassuring. Well, this is a this is a really intriguing moment. With Spencer Cox coming forward onto the national stage, it is quite possible for the governor of Utah. to speak to the people of Utah and nobody else to notice. Right. And we haven't really seen much of him. He, he did, a kind of media tour in 2023. with Jared Polis, who's the Democratic governor of Colorado.

I've seen neighboring states and their CMOs disagree better. So he's coming forward and he's presenting. a different version of being a modern Republican. And he has done it in a way that has clearly resonated. with people about social media. He, he. I think, is going to get people talking about presidency, presidential candidacy. So whether he's interested not we don't know, but it's certainly something that people are going to start talking about. But I think he's a sort of riveting figure.

I mean, having not known anything about him. frantically been reading up what moment the most exciting thing. that I want to know with both of you, although you may have known, is. this is he's related to an Asmr. He's related to Merrill Lynch, one of the Osmond Brothers. Not as a good looking as as Donny Osmond. Not only wasn't. Anyone done Donny Osmond, but his, brother in law. is actually Merrill Osmond's mom, which I found really intriguing.

But he's also false. Nice and parrot, who got into Harvard Law School, didn't go to Harvard. Law School this Utah educated through and through. Married to his college sweetheart. They have four kids. It's a very Utah story. Anti-abortion, but in fact banned, laws. that would have forbidden trans students from taking part in sports, on the grounds that there were only four trans students in the state. And he said, you know, most of them are actually struggling to stay alive.

There's a 56%, suicide rate among this group. And so he sounds like and he's actually passed. various legislations to help LGBTQ groups. So he's a very, nuanced. Republican governor, icing of the kind we haven't seen for a long time. Where I think, well, let's be even you. And I know it doesn't agree with me here. You think I've been seduced by Governor Cox, and I'm I'm.

I do, and I may be seen a bit. I think it's the Osmond connection mesmerized you, but but but but you know, I mean, it is even more nuanced than Donald. Trump. Yes. You know, is he a conservative Republican who by, you know, sort of any normal Republican standards prior to ten years ago. would have been considered pretty far, right? Yes. You know, part of the the sort of sensitivity on the.

the issues of gay people in Utah has to do with the fact. that historically gay people were treated pretty badly by the Mormon church, and there were some real problems that took place at Brigham. Young University and these other places across Utah. And they responded to it and they responded in a constructive way. I believe, you know, he is a genuinely, you know, unlike Trump, who. talks about religion, you know, as if he were reading it off of a cue card. While holding the Bible upside down.

Right. Well, that yeah, right. June 1st 20, 2020. When he did that, when he walked across to the church at his daughter. suggested it wasn't even his own idea. You know, I think she genuinely believes these things and who knows it. I think it's quite possible that Trump and Miller and Vance. and all these other people go far, too far, even for the Republican Party. And you get on your way to 20, 28 to people starting to say,

well, you know, can can we do something a little better than that? Marco Rubio, who I think is trying to position himself to be that, has undermined his credibility a great deal by, you know, turning into a poodle for Trump. And so somebody like this guy might emerge. Now, having said that, you know, you saying, oh, I see him and he's great and he's a great alternative to Trump. You know, if other people in. the media agree with you, Trump will put the kibosh on him.

You know, they'll they'll bury this guy because they won't. want the competition for Trump. And and I would note that, you know, a lot of this story in the past week has been in Utah. But in this next week, the funeral is taking place in Arizona. And I think the story is going to shift, and it will allow them. to change the cast of characters a little bit to suit the president, who's actually going to the funeral on Sunday at the Arizona Cardinals.

NFL football stadium. And, you know, I think what you're going to end up with. is the world's first funeral. slash MAGA rally, right? And it's going to be pretty hideous. It's. Well, the Sunday event is being described as a memorial service. Right. But I don't think we actually, right now have precise details. of how that is then is then followed by a private service of. The,

You know, at his church. He was a mainline Protestant, although he had recently been attending. Catholic Church with his with his wife, who is a Catholic. So we we I think I've slightly unclear on that, but we definitely are getting a Trump rally. Well, I saw Kari Lake getting very, excited that. Something is going. To be happening. In the I. Mean. He's fantastic, isn't she? She, she was saying that the the reason this guy,

killed Charlie Kirk was because he was. corrupted by college education and that mothers should not send. their children to college because they could end up being killers. Well, as a mother, I would say that if I, I would be nervous about having a child go to that rally. Actually, I think that, it's scary to be in. big crowds of people right now, especially people who are angry.

I think. No. No doubt. I think the point you make about crowds and angry is it's a. we are seeing the the reaction to Charlie Kirk's death is playing out. We will see this huge event clearly huge event with Trump at it. But we're also seeing it play out on social media. The thing that that, that Governor Spencer Cox was, so vehemently. speaking out against, but on social media, there's a whole lot of anger.

And it's directed from Charlie Kirk supporters, from MAGA towards people who are criticizing. Charlie Kirk and saying that they do not want to share in that grief. And I think as a as a moment of danger, there are certainly there's certainly going to be. a huge security presence at his funeral. But it may well be the danger here is much, much wider than that. And the dangers on social media. Dangers on social media. And the danger is that social media is being used to target people.

who do not agree with the grief over Charlie Kirk, and that would appear to be what used to be called. cancel culture, and used to be the thing opposed by the right. And the president of the Oxford Union, who's, who's just about to take up. his position, has got into trouble for saying. Charlie Kirk, lol and, claiming that in the speeds of the moment and the height of the moment, he sort of jumped in and various people have reported him and now there are calls.

for him to resign or whatever, and he's saying it's just free speech. When Charlie Little that's not debated in Oxford. Let's let's try to put this into some perspective, okay? The the reality is that every major study that's been done, whether it's been done. by the Anti-Defamation League, which is kind of vaguely pro-Trump these days. or it's been done by the FBI in the past or it's been done by other, you know, legal specialists, show that most of the violence that's done.

political violence in the United States comes from the far right. And this, you know, they are trying to use this, in fact, JD Vance and Stephen Miller once again tried to perpetuate this. this notion that, the left. do the same, the left don't do the same. Most of the people who have gotten fired or called out. have not been people making fun of the death of Charlie Kirk. They've been people say, you know, quoting Charlie.

Kirk, there's a woman, Karen idea, who was the, writer for The Washington Post who that fired over the weekend. not for saying anything about Charlie Kirk, per se, but simply quoting Charlie Kirk, saying that black women. were not smart enough to be taken seriously in jobs. Okay. And because she quoted him, she was fired. when Matthew Dowd was on MSNBC and said. this was a divisive figure, he got fired for saying that.

And so these are not people going, oh, haha, this guy is dead. Although there's. some idiots on the internet saying that just as they're idiots on the internet. saying everything, and it's not like the left is behind this sort of wave of violence. And so the question you have to ask is, what are they doing? Why are they spreading this particular narrative? And the answer is to serve themselves politically, to shift the blame off. of them, but also to justify the president taking special steps and give, you know,

Stephen Miller, apparently I was listening this morning to something. And Stephen Miller apparently has got a plan that he's working on a sort of post. Charlie Kirk murder plan to enable them to gather more power, more rights, more prerogatives to go and target their enemies. And, and and so I, you know, here are the words. But ask yourself, what are their motives?

What are they really trying to achieve? I think the other thing worth adding to. that is the factual background to. to violence, that we should just point out. that the most recent before Charlie Kirk and his tragic death, the most recent tragic deaths, were of Melissa and Mark Hartman, who were murdered because she was a Democratic lawmaker.

And their dog. And their dog, it absolutely chilling example of violence. And it's been very clear that the suspect was fueled by right wing, far right wing views, extremist views that came from the right. And and one of the things that is not being encouraged. here by by JD Vance, by Stephen Miller, is any honest appreciation of exactly what has been going on in this country. Well, and as we I think we said last week on Friday, David,

this is also about mentally ill young men with access to firearms. Do you think of Thomas Matthew Crooks, who tried to assassinate Donald Trump. last July, and who had a list of people that were his targets, and one of them was Joe Biden, and it was just that Trump happened to visit Butler, Pennsylvania, which was near to where Thomas Matthew Crooks lived. That he was the victim there. I mean, America's gun violence. problem doesn't have to do with political violence, right?

It has to do with primarily young men who have access to guns. and do don't have access to mental health care and who have too much access. to video games and are too alienated from their society. And, if it's not young men, it's older men, but men with guns, with mental problems. or with grievances are our issue. And again, it suits people to say,

oh, we we have a political violence problem in America. And it's on both sides, when in fact that is not. what motivated the shooting attempt at at at at Trump. That's not what motivated you know, it wasn't you know, what motivated this this last month as far as we could tell. And a lot of the cases that we have seen, have been more, you know, sort of deranged people, but a lot of them have also been right wing.

You know, the guy who took, automatic weapon and shot up. the CDC was motivated over, you know, anti-vax stuff. There have been some anti-Semitic attacks. And although the right tries to say, well, that's, you know, the left is, is the anti-Semites know, you know, that there's. a core racist component to the far right, that is well known. And, you know, Trump is the one who praised Nazis marching in Charlottesville.

And so, you know, it's hard to sort this out. because there's so many people peddling so many narratives. And I think people are listening to this really need to slow down, try to find the facts, not listen to Apatow, and, and try to understand the motives of the people who are speaking. Well, Trump has, well, Trump is setting off for London this week, right,

for a state visit where there will be a big white tie dinner for him. and King Charles and Melania, our first lady, who seems to have emerged. from hiding recently. We saw her at the 9/11 Memorial, will be meeting Kate Middleton. It's going to be it's going to be amazing as a spectacle. A Donald Trump, of course, met the late Queen Elizabeth, and everybody remembers that he actually managed. to walk in front of her, which is something you do not do. when the Queen is inspecting her own troops.

You know, well, you don't walk in front. He and King Charles are not soulmates. The some some of those demographic overlap. The both boomers. After that, I don't think they've got a huge amount in common, but he is going to be absolutely in love with the spectacle. He loves the spectacle. And if anybody's got more gold. than, than he does is, of course, the British royal family, who've got a gilded a selection of gilded palaces to welcome them at. And the gold coat for him to ride.

Old coach, newly refurbished. Yes. And we will see Melania going, you know, going out with Kate and out. with them with, scouts. Not with Prince Andrew. Not with. We will not see Prince Andrew in any shape or form. So the he and Donald Trump, who of course for photographed together in Mar-A-Lago. in the year 2000 with Jeffrey Epstein don't get to reminisce about their friend. And I wonder if King Charles will raise the specter.

of the concreting over of Jackie Kennedy s Rose garden. Well, because we know he has a huge garden hike and it's his home, his personal home, and he's a massive supporter of obviously, wildlife. Clay was banging on about climate change before anybody cared the environment. I should say. The King is such a dedicated gardener that he speaks to his plants. and his trees more. Than he does to his garden was.

This was a recent story that 11 out of 12 of its gardeners. had felt that he wasn't treating them as well as perhaps he could have done. He is apparently a bad boss, so maybe he and Donald Trump. can bow and deliver some aspects of that, right? No word from the flowers on what they think about what he talks about with them. David, I'm sorry if this is all getting. very English for you, but we grew up understanding that King. Charles, as he is now certainly Prince Charles and used to talk to plants. There was a. Doctor and I you know, I, I my mother,

thought that she was English. And so we were when I was little. I, you know, I mean, she was she grew up in Manhattan, but she aspired to being English. And so the first, you know, when I first trip overseas, we were brought to Hampton Court and and Windsor. and so forth, and trained to believe that that was the height of civilization. I've since learned better, but I don't want to get into that here, to fear. Fear of a. Scottish civilization, which is the height of civilization, will.

Outnumber you if you do that. Madonna met your mother and Madonna. I remember meeting Madonna. I actually went to Madonna's house on the Upper East Side to interview her. for something, and she actually greeted me in an English accent. And then she asked me in an English accent if I would like some tea. It was very surreal. Is Donald Trump going to do this? Maybe. What's going to. Happen? Do you think he'll walk in front of Prince Charles? Oh, I think King Charles, King Charles. I, almost certainly he is going to find some way to insert himself into this.

That is possibly bad manners and noble it was. Obviously people were too polite to mention. the Queen did not see Donald out of my way. She just let him get on with it. But don't. you remember the last time President Biden went for a visit with King Charles? Oh, who was actually then Prince Charles? I'm sorry to get so confused. The Queen was still, around at that point. He was mocked for lead for what felt. like leaning on Prince Charles because he was.

it wasn't clear he was going to actually make it up some steps. And so was he leaning on him. Either way, you're not supposed to touch the royal other than give. Let them give your hand a squeeze. And we are in debt to Joanna. Calls will be for that advice. Well, I was actually going to say, given the bruises that Donald Trump. has had on his hands, which Carolyn Leavitt, his press secretary, says, because he's been shaking so many hands, he should actually get advice on the.

how the royals do it. Because, David, just in case you put your hand out, if you're a humble supplicant. or in the crowd and they take it and they give it a gentle squeeze, but you don't shake it vigorously, leaving the president or the monarch. with large, unsightly bruises, which then need to be covered up with makeup. It's a royal cure for Cankles I do. King Charles has curtain calls. It'll be very interesting to measure their their ankles.

Cankles and see if there's any difference. Wow. Will it be interesting? What are these people really interesting. These are I mean. Their point, David. You know, I mean, I, I'm sort of more of a product of the, Monty. Python upper class twit view of this whole thing. And we have these. I get a lot of sympathy in here for that. Yeah. And and you've got a lot, you know, you get these ridiculous people. And I think one of the things.

that we shouldn't lose sight of here with Donald Trump going off. to be ridiculous with these ridiculous. people, is the ridiculousness of it all. Because, you know, Donald Trump, what he's trying to do right now is collect all the possible. perks of President King that he can't, you know, I'm going to go and be greeted by these people, and I'm going to be. in the live in a gilded room and people are going to treat me this way, and I'm going to build a ballroom with 900 people, and it's there. And the whole idea of the ballroom is so the 900 people celebrate him.

And what could be, you know, where do you learn how to treat ridiculous people? Ridiculously. But in England, which the royal family, which is a vestige of this kind of idiocy that should long ago have disappeared, but of course it hasn't, because, you know, it's entertaining. But I also see there is a fairly serious lesson. And David, you're absolutely.

right about the the the supermarket sweep of presidential. I Trotsky's that he's been amassing, but he's also trying to mass power and gilding. the Oval Office is funny and revealing. But what we are definitely seeing. is that there is an opportunity presented by the death of Charlie Kirk, that Stephen Miller has outlined, that he's drawing up upon. It's it's all of a piece. And yet there is still a specter of Jeffrey Epstein lingering.

And one thinks of now the incredibly complex logistics. of this visit to the UK, which have been wildly disrupted. by the resignation of Peter Mandelson, the British ambassador to Washington, who was in charge of this trip and in fact was frantically trying. to make sure that all went well. And he's now out of his job because of the birthday book, in which his four page letter with photos.

to Jeffrey Epstein was laid bare for everybody to see. And he said, Jeffrey, I how I'd say. I'm expecting a bump in logistics. Well, I think no, no, but I think you put your finger on. what is the real story here, which is the Epstein subtext with Prince Andrew. and with Mandelson and with Trump and with the whole royal, you know, all the turmoil in the royal family around Prince Andrew's, experience there. So, you know, hopefully that, you know, that'll that'll attract some of the,

the attention here. Trump's just going to want a break. You know, he just he just wants a break from all the miserable stories. that he's had to deal with. And you know of course who knows maybe the actual British government. will show up there. But I do want to say one thing before, you know, we've. Before you select your car before. You or for a while. Yeah, that probably won't happen any time soon, but I do that for our livestream. The price, the price of admission.

to here to say Chomsky with a Scottish accent. Worth it. It's always worth it. David, I get that thrill every day. Please go and collect your car. Thank you very much for giving us perspective and wisdom. As always, I always like to remind people you served in the Clinton administration. You were the editor of Foreign Policy magazine, and you bring such wisdom to everything you talk about. And there were lots of wonderful comments about your perspective.

last week on YouTube, which I'm sure you haven't read because you are a modest man. But if you go and read them, I think you will feel cheered. You're very kind. I am not sure what this YouTube you speak of. It. All right, David, go. and get your car, drive safely and we will see you soon. See you soon. So I'm. mindful of the fact that King Charles still has cancer. and that it's treatable, but it's not curable. And of course, he'll be meeting Donald Trump, who's 79,

with his cankles and his chronic Venus interruption, which means his own blood. pressure is, more challenged now as he as he reaches 80, two old white guys hanging out together, both with a lot of power. Two old white guys, indeed. Both with. Well, certainly the president has a lot of power. The King technically doesn't have a lot of power, thanks to hundreds of years of history. But there will be a completely different perspective on this, because we will also.

see two much younger and incredibly famous women hanging out together. The royal visit. The state visit will include Princess Kate. and the first lady, Melania Trump going to, go into an engagement as they are. called in British royal parlance with, with some young scouts. And that's going to be a split screen moment of the old and the younger. And I think, sure, people well, it's kind of an interesting moment.

Is it time for some generational change? Do we think that why do we think Camilla is not meeting the first lady? We don't exactly know. Of course, she will meet the first lady at the white tie dinner. and will formally be there with the King when they welcome them, to Buckingham Palace, to Windsor Castle. But, the engagement of Melania and Princess Kate,

as you say, not feature the Queen. We don't really know. much about the Queen's thoughts on Donald Trump or Melania Trump. She isn't a particularly discreet person. But this one, she has not clearly. has decided not to dress that in any shape or form. And this is the second state visit for Donald Trump, which is very unusual. Right? Normally, the royal family only hosts one head of state. throughout their sort of state ship as well.

And people thought the great thing the British royal family are amazing. is that they will change any rules if it helps them. If you need to divorce your wife, you set up your own church. Henry V Henry the eighth. If you need to get rid of a problematic king, then you invent the idea of abdication. and send him off to France with his of his American wife, Edward. This happened with the seventh. And if you're worried. that there might not be that, if you're worried about the perception.

that the male firstborn must be king, then you can change the rules. So if the, if Prince William and Princess Kate is had a girl, she would actually have been queen. As it happened, they had a boy. So another rule seems to be torn up here. It used to be you thought this one head of state from another country. In this case, President Trump only gets this big official state visit. Welcome once from the monarch. But rather handily, there have been two monarchs for Donald Trump's presidency.

So, of course, to be seen. Oversaw the first visit the King. And I was, thinking I was remembering the moment when Keir Starmer produced. with a great flourish, when he was sitting to Donald Trump's right, I think in the, in the white House, in the Oval Office, a letter from the King. and Donald Trump read it out loud because he was clearly so proud. to receive a letter from the King. Totally starstruck by the royals. He says it's all because of his mother that she loved the Royals. She, of course, was, Scottish.

And I obviously followed. the Royal family from from 3500 miles away. But yes, he is absolutely star struck by the Royals. They've got way more gold than he does. They've got way more properties than he does. And, they don't have it any more, but they used to have way more power than he does. And I will say they throw a better parade. They throw an excellent parade and he will be taking notes, I think, back when he sees it in action.

Well, something we'll look forward to. He was starstruck by the royal family. I was starstruck by the Osmonds. They are royalty, too, in their own way. Royalty. And they're a big they're a big family. So there's an element for everyone. There is an Osmond for everyone. If you have been. Thank you for joining us. Feel free to leave us a comment on YouTube and much more excitingly, join The Daily. Beast community on YouTube where you get all sorts of extra content. and Michael will be Michael Wolf, that is, and I'm sure will try and persuade.

David Rothkopf to to answer some of your comments. She what else do I need to say? If you join the membership, scheme, then I will translate for people who didn't understand me. Okay, fair. Although now. we can get those Apple headphones that give simultaneous translation, which, you know, my observers of the Daily Beast podcast may want to employ. That's a that's a big threat to my unique to my unique appeal. I think I felt being a not understood was why people were subscribing.

So subscribe to The Daily Beast. Daily Beast RT.com subscribe. to the podcast, Apple, Spotify, YouTube wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be back tomorrow. with another episode of Inside Trump's Head with Michael Wolf. He is still in London. I wonder if he's trying to jostle himself a ticket to the state dinner. Is he there for a state visit himself? Maybe he is. Maybe he is. And of course, is our first lady who's emerged from hiding,

would say beast. And thank you to our production team. Devin Roger Reno, uneven season. And our editor, Jesse Millard.