How Trump Humiliates Natalie by Thirsting at Rival | The Daily Beast Podcast

And this time he's showing off Margo Martin. And of course, Trump travels with the same group of people all the time. So Natalie Harp was there as well. And there he was. Brought her up, hugged her. He talked about how beautiful she is. We know that it's the language of Trump. There were these pictures hourly on the week of him. Apparently shouting at Natalie and then a younger woman. A woman who we have to say has regularly been mistaken. for Melania, was brought up on stage.

I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. Today we are catching up with the insanity of the week. Trump on the cover of Time Again, the beast driving 100 miles an hour. when the weather proved too difficult to take a flight, and Natalie Harp, Natalie Harp being well, being forced to watch Trump. slow all over. Margo Martin, her white House rival.

What is going on? Hugh Doherty, the Daily Beast executive editor, knows everything, and he's here to frame it for us before he does. Please don't forget to subscribe to The Daily Beast wherever you get. your podcasts. Please just smash the subscription button. and you can, like us do and share us with friends. Okay, enough. Hugh Doherty. What? Week. You're. You're going 100mph.

Joanna I mean, well, you're going. Mars is going 100mph. Yeah, it's it's circum navigating. the the the globe like Elon Starship. Oh, right. And not not hopefully not ending up like all of his starships and crashing. Crashing and burning. Yes. Crashing and burning. All right, Hugh, I was very curious about this. Natalie Harp Margo Martin story. Natalie Harp is obviously the president's special age.

She goes everywhere with him. As Michael Wolff has pointed out, she is the most important person. because she really controls the information in and out to him. We've got a clip here which suggests. that she has a rival for Trump's attention. This is a clip well worth watching to all who watch it. There's quite a few things to look out for. Margot, where are you? Margot? Get up here! Margot! Come here.

Margot, come, come, come. I won't make you speak. She's very shy. Come here, come here. She's become a sensation in social media. Look at this. Look at this. And I'm not allowed. She's. I'm not allowed to say she's beautiful. You believe that? She is beautiful, but she's beautiful inside and out. And she's been so loyal. She's been with me right from the beginning. Right, right. So many, so many things in there. So much. I actually feel for Natalie.

Heart watching that. Tell me what you saw there. Well, first of all, this was a rally in Oklahoma. Trump went there on Thursday night, and Oklahoma was worth seeing. Is deep red, and we can talk about that later. But this rally, he uses these rallies to try to show off. I mean, it's kind of like, I don't know, like going around ten elderly relatives. and I'm going to show you this collection of things and you're like, okay. And this time he's showing off Margot Martin.

And of course, Trump travels with the same group of people all the time. So Natalie Harp was there as well, and there he was. He brought her up, he hugged her. He talked about how beautiful she is. We know that it's the language of Trump. Michael Wolff does a brilliant job in this. The newest addition, actually, of Inside Trump's head. Talking about how you're basically a flunky to Trump. But one of the flip sides of this as he talks about beauty and beautiful.

and he talked. He also he went on to talk about her genetics and say that he subscribes. to the racehorse theory because her parents were there. She's from Oklahoma. She's from Oklahoma? Yeah. She she was born in Dallas. She was brought up in Oklahoma. She went to Texas Christian University. She's very much from where he was having his rally last night. There's miles between Ada or Ada, I should say, in Oklahoma and Dallas. Were here to hear this rally earlier in the evening. So she is.

This is a local girl. And in his view, this is a local girl. Done. Good. But if you're Natalie Harp. Sure. There were these pictures area on the week of him apparently. shouting at Natalie Harp and then a younger woman, a woman who, we have to say has regularly been mistaken. for Melania, was brought up on stage. Our sponsor, cloaked, dared me to see how exposed my information actually is.

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And if you want to take it a step further, use that same. link for 30% off any plan. But I think we're going to show some photos of Margot. Martin here because, as you say, regularly confused for. for Melania and even dressing like Melania. I mean, there's a picture of her here, I think, in a pinstripe suit, which is the new uniform that Melania has been wearing. to indicate that she's a businesswoman.

She's creating her own world outside of the white House, as we know. We know that Melania herself jokes about the fact. that people have missed her because she's not in evidence. And yet Margot Martin is in evidence. Natalie Harp is in evidence. She pointed to the photos that we saw this week of Trump shouting, I mean yelling, looking ferociously angry at Natalie Harp. and Natalie Harp looking as if she's laughing it off, but also looking pained. I think it's fair to say.

And then you have Trump, you know, fawning over Margot Martin, who is very beautiful. I mean, she's got that kind of glass skin. That is a whole thing on the internet right now, you know, very pretty. 31 has a fiance not yet married. Her fiance is the kind of archetypal American man. I would say this is across all American Ohio State University. I across player professional career and across actually in Canada.

Perhaps we shouldn't mention that to Trump because obviously that's now the enemy. But that was before he that was I'm sure he calls it Lake America. And she posts a lot of pictures of him on her social media. Brooke Sorensen, her, her fiance, he now works out the name Brock, Brock and Margot. It's such an American. Kind of the valedictorian couple, right? Yes. I'm getting sort of, John Cougar Mellencamp vibes from this, right?

I don't know what that means. Oh, small town girl. 000. Is that. Was that his song? Which I was confused with Uptown Girl by Billy Joel? Because I love his songs. Oh, dear. I've revealed myself to be a secret suburbanite at heart. And I and I play so hard at being an urban girl. There's nothing wrong with Billy Joel. What did we think about Trump saying are you can't say that people are beautiful, because if you do, you'll lose your career. I mean, he's made a career out of surrounding himself with beautiful women.

That's been part of his shtick. Yeah, it's this is something we've we've heard this from a known. Again, he says it as a sort of weird throat clearing mechanism to then go on. And as you put it, slaver, I think my word was thirst over. first is a better word. Beautiful woman. And it's it's intriguing that he uses it because there is nobody less inhibited. about talking about beautiful women. in a pretty, let's be honest, pretty derogatory way.

But he has he has used this as a sort of device, especially at rallies that he says, well, I you can't see this. And of course, part of the appeal of Trump has been to that base. that want to that want to, you know, that believe that he is, able to say the things that are unsayable. And that's this is one of those you can't call women beautiful anymore. It's one of those sort of. Yeah. No, no, it's a it's a cry to the culture. It's a sort of the woke. aren't, you know, won't allow you to say that someone's good looking. Yes.

Although as we say, that that's never stopped him. So Margot Martin, like Natalie Harp, makes a lot of his social posts. We're going to show a social post here. One of the ones that Margot has made because they're obviously I mean, it seems that he's trying to pitch them against each other, which is something we know he does with his cabinet. You know, it's JD Vance versus Marco Rubio versus Pete Hex. He's doing it here with Natalie Harp and Margot Martin.

Let's play one of the videos that Margot Martin made of him recently. We are wheeled down. President Trump stops to take questions from the press. We are now rolling to McDonald's. Check out this crowd across the street. I first day at McDonald's. I'm looking for a job. He put his apron on and got to work at the fry cooker. Can't forget the salt and a little over the shoulder for good luck. I was rather intrigued because he throws salt. over his shoulder, which is something I grew up doing and still do. It's despite the devil.

The devil is over Trump's left shoulder. Well, the devil's over all our left shoulder. Well, I'm aware of I'm aware of that. But I was just like Trump. What? Trump doesn't want the devil. Well, I'm intrigued by what's going on here. I think what's going on is it's an old it's a. I actually thought it was a European thing, but I guess. well he did he had his mother was from Scotland. Right. So she probably learned it there. If you spill salt because salt used to be expensive, it's unlucky. And so before the devil can get in and create havoc with your bad luck,

you throw a bit of salt over your left shoulder. and it's supposed to hit the devil in the eye. What can I tell you? I still do it. So it's something that Trump and I have in common. But I thought that was a very good video. Bye bye, Margot. She's very good at doing things. And Trump I mean, I see this is not CNN. Trump is the star. This is the Trump adoration video. And in fact, her videos have done very well in court marks in these terms.

They've got huge social reach. They have in the Trump world. Some of those videos that she has made. are the videos that people are repost and repost and repost. Are they they make other versions of them. They do mashups, horror content. that's taken often from when, particularly from when Trump travels. She she's with him a lot, but when he travels, she makes these, TikTok, Instagram Reels. And these are the things that Trump likes to see defining his travel.

It kind of looks it's glamorous. It's very, very glamorous. It's like a sort of ad for Amex. Yes, the black card Amex. So even Margot Martin couldn't take a video of the beast. whizzing along yesterday at a hundred miles an hour. Trump was bragging that it was the fastest the beast has ever been. I'm sure that the other presidents, the former presidents. Club, woke up and were just like, oh God, can you believe that?

This is what he did in the beast? Please explain. So, as we said, he was in Oklahoma for a rally when he summoned. Margot Martin up on stage. He had been just before that in the Dallas suburbs. He'd gone to the Peterbilt truck factory. He held a rally there, and it's about 80, 85 miles between them. He was supposed to get on Air Force One. There was a weather warning. And Air Force One does not take risks with the weather. Thankfully. Can you imagine having to tell that to Trump?

Right. Because you would think that he'd probably say, I can't feel a storm. I can't feel a storm. Let's just go. Let's go the way there are better than anyone else. Whether it's a hoax, it's a hoax. Well, yeah, I imagine it went down badly for a minute, and then he turned it. around, his advantage, and he said, we are going to go. We're going to drive and we will not be late, for. the people will be slightly late for the people of Oklahoma. And he makes this a flex. And it's it's something that it builds a popularity of this rally.

going base and this rally going based, by the way, is getting smaller. Those rallies are not getting bigger. I thought that it didn't look to be very many people at all at the car factory, and they are now putting him in smaller venues that it's just harder to tell. The Dallas convention back at the beginning of September, those pictures were absolutely. humiliating of him saying, we are full to the rafters. and I are your wife, who was there, had pictures. Oh, there's the rafters. There's no people, right? That entire top layer of the arena was completely empty.

It was as if they hadn't even opened it. So yeah. In fact, they had they deliberately had not. And so he was at this Peterbilt very small midi rally. Couldn't get on the plane, said, we are going to drive, we're going to go there. And as I say, 80 miles straight shot. It's, interstate most of the way, 75 mile per hour speed limit. So, you know, it's not an emergency. Let's just be clear about this. This is he's going between campaign stops.

purely for political reasons, purely to get people to vote Republican. The motorcade was clocked at around 100mph. Wow. He. We know this because the motorcade includes. the pool of reporters, and they are in a in a van. And the van was doing according to the reporter who was there. And you can see this tweet from them on screen, 98mph. Now, I have to say, I have never been in.

a, you know, 15 seater doing 98mph. It doesn't sound like a great idea to me. The beast is ten tons of armored steel. It is designed to go that fast to get away from things. It is designed. so that it can accelerate away from danger because that's how it's designed. I'm not entirely sure that it's designed. to go for 100mph, for mile after mile after mile. I'm sure the Secret Service will say we plan for all of us,

but I just want to climb slightly on the moral high ground here. and say that they closed the freeway for him. They closed the freeway for him. So all the people were probably inconvenienced. And it's I just emphasize this point again. It's not an emergency. There is a speed limit. Laws apply to everybody. And I just I think, you know, you talked about the devil. and putting salt over your shoulder and old wives tales and, there are many parables and fables that you can tell people's respect.

for the law or for other people from the smallest of their actions, and. demanding to go at 100mph just because you can, just because you want to get to this next rally, I think might people might see. that as indicative of the sort of, view that Donald Trump has. And we are coming up to midterm elections where the fidelity to. the rule of law is going to be absolutely critical.

Oh, so you think that this might be an omen of what he's planning to do around. the election? I think. I think omen might. be a strong word, but it's something that, should at least, you know, raise people's raise people's eyebrows, if nothing else. And I know that sounds kind of preachy, and I'm not. The Daily Beast is not preachy. We are not a we don't, Hector. We don't lecture. I just think it's intriguing. that his reaction was to say, go as fast as you can. To hell with the law.

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So let's come back to the midterms in a minute. Two points. He's leaving Texas. I'm sure James Talarico team is already on the beast going at 100 miles an hour, because they're doing very good job of making hay with Trump's errors. Now, Trump was there, of course, in Texas, where his personal candidate, Ken Paxton, is running against the Democrat James Talarico. And even the fact that this race is competitive is interesting.

because normally it would be, you know, Texas is is red for the Senate. So, can we talk about what Trump said about Paxton? Because, of course, Ken Paxton was caught earlier this week on hot. Mike saying that the RNC, the mini. RNC that we were talking about earlier had in fact been bad for Republicans. His numbers had dropped because of the trumpet palooza. And of course, this is not something that Donald Trump wants to hear at all.

So Donald Trump then gets his own back up by talking about Paxton. We have the clip. He could be a pain in the ass sometimes. I'll be honest. Is he here, by the way? There he is. Good. I didn't even know he was here. I don't care, I just I didn't even know he was here, I don't care. Sorry. Can you know Margot Martin? You're no Marco Martin. Yeah. I mean, Trump has been rude about him before. I mean, I think when they were in Dallas at the trumpet palooza of insult.

Exactly. He said he doesn't speak. Well, he doesn't look good. He's not a great guy. But he was a good attorney general. Also untrue, because he got impeached by his own party. Well, so did Donald Trump. And he thinks he's a great president, but, well, not by his own party, not by his own party. Right? Yes, that's true even by Donald Trump standards. That's pretty bad by some members of his own party, some members of his own party. Cassidy, who then, as a quid pro quo, had to vote. in Robert Kennedy Junior as Health and Human Services secretary. And then, of course, he gets primaried by Trump.

So he's lost his seat and he's out. So Ken Paxton, you you might feel sorry for this guy. I mean, he turns up for this rally with Trump. He by the way, he could have gone to a rally held. the previous day by one JD Vance. He didn't go to that. So who knows what JD Vance would have said about him. But he turns up for this rally and he needs this help. The base has to come out. And that's what Trump goes to do.

These rallies for nobody who's kind of in the middle, who's, you know, sort of independent, is persuaded by a Trump rally. But Trump knows that his voter turnout for him and he's doing this guy. a favor going to going to do is going to this, you know, the state that he should never need to go there. This state should be red. And, I know people in the comments are probably going to say, well, it's not as red as you think. And that's true.

How it's got cities, it's got it's got blue cities in its cities. And the margins by which, Republican. senators have been winning in Texas have been on a slide down. Just in broad terms. They slightly ticked up the last time with Ted Cruz. Everybody hates Ted Cruz, but Donald Trump was on the ballot. But in general terms, really, the Republican Party doesn't. think Texas is a danger until Ken Paxton turns up and gets installed. And oh, no, this is a full on crisis.

And Trump well and it's of Trump's making. Trump has made this crisis. Cornyn because John Cornyn was critical of him and he's gone after him. And no, he's going after Ken Paxton. And you know, if there was this to James Tower, who is clearly an exceptionally strong candidate, this isn't just like any loser. and Paxton and he was on the Texas State Senate. So people know him. He's not like he parachuted in. He's a local guy who was a former school teacher there. Now he's a seminarian.

These are these people both have, you know, people not in Texas. And both these names were kind of new to us, but these people have a high profile in Texas. Texas has a lot of media markets. It has a very. powerful, if you like, state government in the sense. that a lot of attention is focused on it more so than perhaps in some other states. You know, where we are in New York, I think you could get a prize for naming. anybody but the governor that's in, in, in, in the state governing apparatus.

But that's not the case in Texas. And Ken Paxton himself made himself a very high profile. Tony general, all of that is is as to not here because. Trump just turns up and insults the guy, calls him a pain in the ass. He talked, as you say, about how he doesn't he doesn't dress well. He doesn't speak well. I would say the same if he wasn't here. Is he here? I don't care. I mean, I don't, I don't care, I don't care. He's. a rod for your own back.

And as I say, you might feel sorry for Ken Paxton, except he's been impeached. His wife left him or divorced him on biblical grounds. He was caught with his mistress in London. On in the United Kingdom or not? By the way, the hamlet in Texas. The one in London, the one in the United Kingdom. On July 4th, America's 250th birthday, he was in the capital of the country. that declared independence from with his mistress. And, I mean, have I even touched the tip of the scandals? And I haven't mentioned him stealing the pain.

All of them, you know, plenty material for Trump there. And perhaps more significantly, Trump's lining up to say, well, he was there some self. He was a stone cold loser. We know what Trump's going to save if James Tower is the next senator. I know I was thinking about Paxton today thinking if he loses the seat, what does he go on and do because everybody has turned against him. And the. pen is such an interesting we've we've talked about the pen before, but the pen,

you know, just for those. who don't know the pen story, because to me, it's such an insight. It's a small incident, but it's such an insight into someone's. character he's going through, I think, at a local courthouse, the X-ray machine, the person in front of him. has left his pen in the tray, probably fallen out of a jacket pocket. And instead of handing the pen in, which is clearly a very expensive pen. and turns out to have been a gift from this man's wife, Ken Paxton pockets it.

And when the guy realizes what's happened a bit later in the day. and oh, I can't find my parents a gift from my wife, and she'll be furious. And it was expensive. And it turns out it was expensive. It was $1,000 pen. It was a special birthday. He goes back and goes through the CCTV, and there is Ken Paxton taking the pen. and putting it in his own pocket instead of handing in and saying, oh goodness, someone's left their pen in the tray, which a normal person would do. But Ken Paxton is not normal. And by the way, these are this is the back, the blue.

All right. Well. And who do you want to live next, or do you want to live next door to the man who won't turn your pen? Who, when you say to him, did you see my wallet? I think I dropped it when I got out of the car. It's like I never saw you. I never saw you. Wallet. Meanwhile, he said he put your cards in the ATM. and try to guess what the number are. So this this poor guy, who is a very respected lawyer, a very respected local Joplin. Oh, he's the guy whose hand it was. Yeah. He had to contact.

He went and asked, the sheriff's department because it was a courthouse. Sheriff's department run the courthouse. And they had to go and retrieve the pen. It's shocking. And then Joe Joplin ended up endorsing James Rico. George Osborne, by the way, a rock ribbed conservative. And this is this is why Trump was at this rally. This is why Trump is lining up the excuses for a for a defeat here, because there have been conservative after conservative.

after conservative at a local level, willing to get behind James Tower eco. Right. And there have not been. high profile conservatives willing to get behind Paxton. John Cornyn has been silent and John Cornyn was, I've said rock ribbed. I don't know what's even more powerful than rock ribs. And the conservative front. This guy could not be more conservative. He won't speak up to see, oh yeah, you should vote for Ken Paxton. He's talking about other people on the ballot. We know that Karl Rove has disasters. Another Texas Republican candidate for his racism.

And Carol, you know, the whole psyche of Texas is it is conservative. That's what we all think about it. That's what we all see it as. And the conservative movement inside Texas isn't behind. Ken Paxton, I know is how could how. could you be behind Axton and keep a straight face? Frankly, very, very difficult. You have to keep everything about your person. Right. Hold on to that, ladies. Yes. It's it's a it's a it's a crazy story.

Change in changing the climate. And it's all done to Trump. It's all down to Donald Trump, who, as we referenced. earlier on, is on the cover of time magazine again. Is it his 58th time on the cover? Certainly. It's more than anybody else. The woods. Ever seen anything like it? They've never seen anybody on the cover of time magazine. More. He's standing right by his new helipad. Yes. And this is a bit of a jaw dropping interview, even for Donald Trump.

And the editor of time said that he released the full transcript. Because Donald Trump attacks the media, says they make things up. So still banning CNN. Isn't he from the pool? Yes. So, well, what did what struck you in this interview the most? Because there are so many elements of it, not least him attacking the Supreme Court. justices that he put in and being furious that they made independent decisions. without him. But.

But you read the whole thing very carefully. What struck you the most? The most striking thing to me is Trump's absolute obsession. in this interview with his press, with his own image in the media. It's a thing he keeps coming back to and he keeps coming back to. You're right, he really does not like the three justices that he put on the Supreme Court. He goes after a variety of targets. He talks about the Democrats. He's actually not that interested in the Democrats in this interview.

But what he's obsessed about is what's on television. But what are people saying about and I think the most revealing quote of all. is when he says to Sam Jacobs, the editor of time. and to the white House correspondent. are not one positive question. He drops the f bomb. It's and he goes on and on about how they are not asking him positive questions. And then he goes after Caitlin Collins, completely unprompted.

He's obviously obsessed by he's obsessed obsessed by her. Natalie, you have another competitor for his attention. I'm sure he's just watching. Caitlin's show every night thinking, why doesn't she like me? How can I get her to be more like Natalie or Margaret unhappy. I, you know, never smiles. Never smiles a lot. Just not when you're in the room, Mr. President, and not when you're refusing to answer her questions. And I think I think part of it, and I always caution, I do not. I do not crawl inside Trump's head. It's already busy with you and Michael.

And the devil's over his left shoulder, so it's, you know, it's. packed in there, but. Caitlin Collins doesn't give him a reaction. And that seems to be quite a powerful, encouragement to him to just keep doing it. He wants a reaction. So he's still goading and he's still goading and other white House. correspondents that he's going after Jim Acosta, you remember from his first term, there appeared to be some sort of reaction or he felt that he had got a reaction.

I don't think Jim Acosta would say that he, in fact, give him a reaction. But Trump failed to get a reaction. And clearly with Caitlin Collins, he doesn't feel a gut reaction. But in this interview, he spent two hours. with the time interviewers. He spent 75 minutes sitting with them. And the rest of the time. the time he toured them around the white House, he showed off the gold. He showed off. This helipad, which we can see on the cover of time, and he thinks they're amazing. He told them that he wants the Oval Office landmarked.

No, I think all of us would be like that. Seems like a good idea, because that would stop you tearing it down. But in fact, he wants the. He wants the Oval Office landmark so that the gold stays in place. So his successors are stuck with it. So JD Vance regularly measures those curtains. Sorry, JD, if you get that Oval Office, you're stuck with that gold. JD from JD Vance might like the gold. He might be into the gold. That's true. He might like, others may not.

You know, I think there's a lot of Democrats. who've got, you know, ready to get those drapes measured. But he really went after Neil Gorsuch. Yes. Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. He said they should be loyal to me. He noted that the three Democrat appointees, were loyal, stuck together when they made decisions. They were essentially, you know, making a decision as a block. And he feels wounded by this. And he said, they're not the people that he appointed.

No. And it's fascinating on two and two, two parts. The first is his idea that the Democrats stick together in a while. If you ask any Democrat, they will tell you that is the one thing. Democrats are not. They are fissile. They fight with each other. They have feuds. They can't, you know, they can't get behind a single candidate. And he thinks of the judges solely as politicians, that they are the Democratic judges. These are the Republican judges. That's how it should work.

Well, and he doesn't seem. to have any understanding of what the justices are there to do. And also now understanding that once they're appointed, justices actually often. go rogue. Rogue, i.e. independent, they have their own decisions. And so they're not they're not political creatures. They're sort of creatures of historic precedent. They're about the law for the most part. And the number of justices that have gone rogue. in the view of the parties that appointed them is actually is pretty high.

Anthony Kennedy, many of the Republicans felt had gone rogue. Sandra Day O'Connor by Ronald Reagan. famously made her own decisions. You know, others over time have moved and, you know, moved in other directions. But in Trump's world, that's not what happens. He's no we assume he doesn't know the history. of the Supreme Court in any of them. Even the most basic shape. He doesn't know the history of the country really either, does he? But what's so clear about him is he's just run like a mafia and then it's run.

You know, it's about loyalty. No. In his cabinet, he expects Scotus to be the same thing. And that's the sort of the fascination with these three appointees that he made. on his first term. He was advised. about who he should put getting the, getting these Supreme Court. justices is the great achievement of his first term. There's no doubt about that. The reshaped the country by their votes on, on the on the Supreme Court.

He when he ran for election had in the first time. round had to shore up conservative support because they really didn't like this. three times married admitted adulterer boasting about his his affairs. There was this long running, there were long running rumors, which he has always denied, that. it paid for an abortion, but he had actually been pro-choice in the past, so he had to shore up his reputation among the conservatives. So he he produced a short list of rock ribbed.

conservative judges that he would elevate to the Supreme Court of. He had the chance. And that was a really key thing in getting the Republican sort. of heavyweights behind him at a crucial time. He might have won anyway, we don't know. But it was always an important thing, and it was very important to Mitch McConnell. And that was Mitch McConnell's deal with the devil. That was Trump was over Mitch's left shoulder. His deal was these judges, these justices, these justices are going to get in.

Neil Gorsuch was the first, then Brett Kavanaugh, and then Amy Coney Barrett. and Amy Coney Barrett. Was rocketship shipped through the Senate. in very marquee circumstances. To get to get to get the seat. They are creations of the first term. And Trump is kind of wanting to walk away from a lot of his first term issues. You talked to Michael about, those serious people. who joined his cabinet in the first the first days of the first term.

and who left wounded, embittered and on filed on the toilet. He stuck with those justices. Those justices are more independent than he expected. They give results that he does not want. Well, most I think most presidents would be, would say, oh, I'm not going to try to get that result through. We are not going to win. We are not going to go to the Supreme Court on that issue. We are not going to try to do this. Trump's approach is exactly the opposite. Right. And he, I think, was emboldened by John Roberts giving him immunity.

During his in 2024. Exactly. And I think he he feels emboldened that he should command this loyalty. And he also has in his mind that the older the two, two older conservatives, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, are peak. Megatron boomers like, you can't get more Trumpy than that pair. And they sure they they're always voting for the stuff that Trump wants.

Now they know they're going to lose when they cast those votes. So these people are able politicians as well. When Alito and Thomas cast dissenting votes on issues. that the rest of the court is going to vote against Trump on, they cast those votes, probably knowing how that's going to go. They have an eye on two legacies. One is that they are the heroes of this Trumpy conservative movement. and especially Corinth Thomas, I think that is a really playing to the gallery.

But you also don't want to go down in history. as the guy that overturned the Constitution by accident. And when Trump has really gone for it. They know they're going to lose. So when do their votes count? So Trump doesn't see it in this sort of, you know, 360 view of, you know, the different questions about legacy and about power and basically. but fight the are sworn to uphold the law. None of that matters. Loyalty loyalty, loyalty. It jumps out of this interview as I think, one of the most unvarnished insights.

that we've had into Trump. That leads us to a terrific piece in The New York Times by Jodi Kantor. about John Roberts, the chief justice, and how the politicization Trumps. politicization of of the Supreme Court has impacted him in a very personal way. And we know that all the Supreme Court justices. have had to have an increase in their security because they have become. characters in the way that they used to be, these sort of distant characters.

You didn't really know necessarily who they were. You certainly weren't following in the same way that that people are now. They've all been targeted by various people. They've all had people protesting outside their house. And John Roberts. goes up to a small island in Maine that doesn't even have cars on it. You have to get there by boat. And it's confused his neighbors, who've long been proud of the fact. they have the the chief justice summering on their island.

And now some of his decisions have made them a proud independent state. For the most part, they're one of the states that has an independent. senator in Angus King, have made them furious, I mean, furious, especially the decision you referred to. about giving the president immunity in while making decisions as the president. So John Roberts has been facing water protests where people kayak. up and dance called. activation, which I thought was innovative.

And we've got some pictures on screen of that right now if you're. Yeah, I mean, if you're not on YouTube, we've done a story on this on The Daily Beast. And it's, it's quite, it's quite something. There's. Yeah. And also, nobody knows how to stop protests on water. Right. And you see, it's actually unclear if it's legal or not is one of the issues. And who would you ask. Well, John Roberts would ask John Roberts whether or not the activations. outside his waterside home are, in fact, legal.

And of course, he's got to have his own security there in a boat on the water. You know, people there was a columnist in the local paper who said, you know what? If you see John Roberts, give him the finger or swear at him. or confront him in some way over some of his decisions. So a a less restful summer, not only did he have the shadow docket to deal with, which is all the emergency situations that rise up. that the court has to deal with, Trump has created, right.

that Trump has created so less peaceful summer than before. Less time to write his books or do whatever he does. Run around doing speeches well, but relax. Among the things that he used to do was they would have. communal, you know, community of suppers. Right? And he would show it years or years or years. The lobsters have arrived. And sadly, this, this. tradition, tradition, tradition has been suspended because now.

all of his neighbors are not so keen on him. Right. So he does still go to the cigar club? Apparently does go to the cigar club. It's it's fascinating because, John Roberts and I keep talking. I keep using this cliche rock ribbed. conservative somebody if you're in the comments, if you've got a better cliche, please give me one. This is not what he expected. This is a bit like the situation in Texas. This is a this is, you know, no, no, I've often thought.

John Roberts must have dreamed. of being the chief justice from when he was a little boy. I'm sure he put his father's black shirt on or his mother's. black dress and braided around. Game. One day I will be Supreme Court justice. He is. So yes, I'm off to school practicing them from when he was in debate club. And again, it's just be careful what you wish for, you know. Yes, you're the chief justice. Donald Trump has been president and Weiss and just,

you know, it's just slightly meta. We are talking about this. Obviously the Daily Beast podcast did not exist. in the era of the Rehnquist Court or any other courts, but where these characters. saw engulfed in this drama. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And, and they were held in respect even when you didn't agree with them. Yes. I think the idea that the Supreme Court represents.

something that people would show shame at, is a very new. No. There are good reasons. you might have shouted shame at previous Supreme Court spread. Scott Springs to mind. But the idea of protest and just protests outside their homes. Very personal. Personal. And, you know, to. put some of this in geographical context and mean he lives on an island, and the island, obviously an island by definition, kind of difficult to get to. It's at the end of a remote peninsula, you know, you can't get any more remote.

And these activists, as they are calling themselves, kind of brilliantly, have to put a lot of effort in to get there. And then there's a lot of effort to do that as well, I suppose. It's it's so intensely personal, in a way that we've never seen and that has been unleashed by one man. And not John Roberts, to be clear, Donald Trump, Donald Trump, I was leaving that hanging there and realizing. So another thing that happened this week which I'm going to get into in real detail.

with Michael Wolff tomorrow on inside Trump's head is Pete Hegseth. Pete Hegseth giving another of his speeches. Nobody knows. No weirdos, no fatties, no trannies. I mean, this crazy language. from a guy who's supposed to be heading, you know, the biggest military in the world. And he comes across as a vindictive, silly little man.

who's trotting around in his pants, which are too short for him. And I understand that's a style, but not perhaps best displayed. by the Department of Defense. And this insistence he's going to cut 20% of the generals. because it's too general heavy, and that they're going to, you know, dig down further on the warrior class, Colonel vodka, as Roger Ailes said to Michael Wolff.

And it's this is a man who he collects nicknames. like other people collect or I don't know that medals. Medals? Yes. No. Tab Pete, because he does not possess. the elite training that gives you a tab, like, for example, being a Ranger. He didn't get that. And that is, you know, he parades himself, if that's the word, as this. strong presence he was running about before he did this speech. He ran around the Pentagon,

with 600 of what he said were America's finest warriors. They were wearing t shirts saying, this is war. Now, just as a small aside, of course, Donald Trump says legally. They have said it is not a war with Iran anymore. So it should really have said this isn't war. But he's running around wanting to project this image of strength. He was doing push ups. You know, all. Oh, great. Right. He's keeping fit. He then goes and he is marching.

or walking, I suppose, up and down on stage. He's doing it not from a teleprompter. It's all, you know, this sort of presentation of strengths. Well, audience of one for Donald. And it's right. It's all for Donald Trump or for Donald Trump. We don't know if Donald Trump was watching and intriguing. Reason that we don't know if he was watching. is because it wasn't shown anywhere. I did not make a lot. This was not shown live on Fox News, even though Pete was the weekend. co-anchor of Fox and Friends.

Interesting. Well, I'm sure that Donald Trump is probably planning to fire Pete Hex. after the midterms because of the war. We were promised a 4 to 5 week war, which is referred to in the time interview. And of course, we're now in our seventh month of war, which is going nowhere. And we are deploying a third aircraft carrier. to the Gulf and 10,000 Marines. And I think I should think the force of 10,000, which includes Marines. So what are we doing? Unclear.

Why would we get rid of 20% of the generals? This is a long held, conservative sort of think tank. obsession, that there are too many generals. and the conservative sort of mind blob. thinks that generals are all walk. No. I mean, come on, you know, you're just defying common sense there. These these guys are not walk. And there's also a sort of mindset. And this was visible in that sort of weirdo military,

adjacent space that's populated by people with weird Twitter titles. that this would stop another endless war beginning, getting rid of these generals, that if these generals, if there hadn't been so many generals during. Iraq and Afghanistan, then they wouldn't have been forever war. And it's kind of weird because they just started a forever war, right? So it's very odd. And then there was a moment in the debate between the Democrat. and Republican candidates for California governor,

where the gas price came up in an unexpected way. Steve Hilton, who's the Republican candidate. and conflicts of interest, is an old friend of mine. We are both from Britain. Steve Hilton is from Britain. Folks, relax is not a takeover attempt. This is not. There will be a 251st birthday for America. We are very confident than that. Well, I think that Steve possibly badly briefed by his team for the debate,

at one point turned to his Democratic. opponent and Xavier Becerra, former. AG of of California, and said, do you know how much the price of gas is? And a straight back at him says, yes, it's $2 more a gallon. than it was before the war in Iran, which shut Steve down. But gas prices, clearly that's how the this war is being measured. Right. And actually, of all people, Steve Hilton should know there is a very old British.

joke of don't mention the war. Some people in the United States will know it because it was on a Fawlty. Towers John Cleese. brilliant comedy from the early 1970s. But yeah, don't mention the war. And Donald Trump does a pretty good job, mostly of not mentioning the war. when he does. And we saw this in the time interview. He gets pretty triggered. He gets very triggered. And he also says that Iran wants a deal, is desperate for a deal, but he's not ready to give them a deal. We know that's not true.

North know that the Iranians are fully cognizant of the fact that there are. midterms approaching, and this is doing very badly for Donald Trump. Yeah. And, you know, the Iranians are not operating in some sort of vacuum of information here. These are the people that came up with these really funny AI swap videos. These are people that understand and are well briefed on. what is going on in the in politics, anywhere in the world. American politics is more interesting than your local politics.

The Iranians are all over it. And, well, they also have access to AI. And we learned that Donald Trump this week deciding whether. or not to go in and kidnap President Maduro from Venezuela. Well, where did he get his advice from? Because we know he's fired all the advisors. Oh, grok AI. So this to me seemed an incredible story. Yeah, it's it's an absolutely astonishingly coat of the white House. And it comes courtesy of time magazine, who spent a lot of time in there.

So I think we can probably guess that the leak may have come from quite. a high level. But do you mean Donald Trump told them this proudly? It's not impossible. It's not impossible? I don't know, because the the the published, quite rightly, this astonishing transcript of the 75 minute interview. It's more than 6500, 6800 words. But he also took them around the white House. And that bit there's not a transcript of. it was understood to be kind of off the record.

So presumably he talked about other things. What we know is that he met Elon Musk at some point towards the end of last year, and there was a sort of detente about after their incredible. falling out of over Doge and the Epstein files. Well, Elon Musk saying Trump is in the Epstein files. and he is, by the way, and he is. Yes. Out of time. So Elon comes in and he's showing him grok. Now grok. Most people have heard of it's yawns anti walk AI.

And you ask grok a question and it will give you an answer. And it is you know all the big. these big tech companies of their own version of it. And just to remind everybody, AI doesn't actually think, just to be clear, it is a very, very good way of finding out what information. has already been published and that it has had access to that. It's had access to vast amounts of information.

So that's, you know, intriguing to find out what that information says. So apparently the the top for hours and Trump gets into asking grok questions. So he asks grok what would happen. if I got rid of Nicolas Maduro? And grok replies. something to the effect of there would be celebrations in the street. A few. weeks later, at the start of January, on January the 3rd, this very daring.

I night operation raid by Special forces goes. and it does that it goes and it kidnaps Nicolas Maduro. and it takes him out of out of Venezuela, brings them right here. to Manhattan, actually two blocks from where we are sitting. Joanna was where he was walked right by the Drug Enforcement Agency. He's now, a waiting trial. He's in the federal detention center in Brooklyn, in New York. He denies the charges of drug running,

racketeering, drug trafficking, narco terrorism, you name it. To be clear, he's a very bad guy. Oh, there's no doubt he did most of these things. But he says I was a sovereign president of a sovereign nation. You can't kidnap me, and I've got immunity. And what how would you feel if I went and kidnap Donald Trump? So what we now know is that after Maduro. was was removed, the where, as grok had predicted, some degree of celebration on the streets in Venezuela, not quite the euphoria as we know that Trump perhaps was expecting.

But Trump saw that and he then said, well, grok is ingenious. So Gronk basically talked him into go into into a war. It's absolutely astonishing. Do we know that he well, I'm assuming that he went on grok. to ask its advice about whether or not going to Iran. We do not know. It seems like a very fair question. One thing we don't know, and I would be very intrigued to know, is how exactly does he ask?

Because we know that Trump is not that brilliant. He's got his phone. Is Natalie Harp for him? That's what I want to know. And I think I often come here on a Friday and I say, I think Democrats will want to know, because Democrats should be all over. Yes, they should be all over. The idea that Donald Trump's chief advisor is grok AI. Yes. And we know, like he made that he made Marco. Rubio the national security adviser permanently.

This week, Rubio is also the secretary of state. He just lost his job as a as the archivist. I don't know. He couldn't fit it in, but he doesn't really have a national security apparatus. David Rothkopf, who is a, you know, steeped in that world, a historian of national security, has pointed out that the size of the apparatus of, of the of, of. of the advisors around Donald Trump is the smallest that has ever been. And and we know that he doesn't listen to them anyway.

Right? We know he doesn't listen. He's an information phobic. He doesn't want advice. He thinks he knows better, which is why we are stuck in a seventh month. slash forever war with Iran, with no visible signs of how we get out. And if I were the Democrats, I would be subpoenaing the logs. for Natalie Harp, for Margot Martin, maybe. Who knows? Right. Whoever it was that was typing this question into grok for him,

what did they ask? Will there be dancing in the street if we invade Iran? Yeah, what a great question. There will be dancing in the street. Would you like me to? Would you like me to give you videos of you dancing in the street? I can ask, yeah, I can ask what kind of dances will they be doing? Your special dance to YMCA. Oh goodness me. Goodness. Can you give me an AI makeover? Yes, I can, Donald.

Well, he's spray tan has also gotten much, much more visible. I mean, there was some very funny memes. Aaron Sorkin has just opened his new movie, also looking weirdly spray tan, but people were like, wow, if you're listening, we've got that on screen. It's an incredible color. Yeah. What is? And when Donald Trump was with all the tech leaders this week. who looked sheepish and bashful standing behind him, and at one point. there's a marvelous moment where he sort of nudges Mark Zuckerberg, who he's been sort of giggling with General Trump at the juxtaposition.

of the two of them Mark's white, sallow skin, a man who looks like he never goes outside, that he's always he's got. that kind of screen skin as if he's just sitting in front of a screen all day. You see Donald Trump sort of orange sunlight next to him. He got this incredible because one of the one of the weird things. that's been notable recently in this second term is Donald. Trump rarely is seen outside.

spontaneously with other people. He, he walks to Marine One and we actually we haven't. we don't have begun to see that anymore because now he's got the helicopter. Oh, he's now we're now getting that back. But he walks to Marine One by himself. He goes out when you go with Natalie. Ha. Well, with Mark, Omar's distance between them is pretty notable, right. So we rarely get those sort of shots of him and somebody else's head caused by. So on Tuesday we got these shots.

It was extraordinary because you can see that he's painted bright orange. Now what is what is fascinating about this is. we saw them inside and then we saw them outside. We saw pictures from inside. And Donald Trump's color kind of looked okay. So what's that about. Did he put on a whole face of makeup before. Was he rushing round before. No. The lights in the white House are balanced. for Donald Trump's complexion, for want of a better word.

So when he went outside, we got a vision of what it really was. And yeah, it looked like an important part and he looked like an upper limb. And Michael Wolff's point about Donald Trump is that he knows he looks strange, he understands the hair is bizarre and that he's changing it. But what he wants more than anything is attention. And if he's going out with these guys who are richer than he is, who are. definitely smarter than than he is, and they know that amongst themselves,

I'm still going to stand out because I'm orangey, I've got weirder hair. and you're going to notice me and I will be the center of attention. Well, also, when they were inside that white house at the lunch. because he looked the right color, they looked I'm. going to use a Scottish expression that my mother would use purely Wylie. Oh, I've never heard that before. P Lee Wylie. What? Very, very pale. And in Scotland, that's not what. Sunshine. So there's a lot of competition to who can be the more pale.

Right. But he looked purely. While his mother would have known that expression, they looked purely ballet. He looked natural. So we know that the whole thing is rigged because we know have evidence, right. Well, when it. And when you saw them outside. David Sachs's former Azar a look translucent. Yes. Almost see through the man. Yeah I mean it's it's it's actually it's. one of the few times that we've had this sort of human insight into how Trump. sees himself among as makeup straightly seeing on inside Trump's head.

He doesn't see them as peers, but he is aware that they are powerful. and they're billionaires. And there it's the rich. And he looked ridiculous. And one thing I want to see, about the Daily Beast is. we have covered how Trump looks a lot because it's fascinating on its own terms, but it is the essential insight into Trump that it gives you. And there was peace a couple of weeks ago by the very respected New York Times. journalist Frank Bruni, who said we shouldn't talk about Trump's appearance.

Because he does all sorts of other bad things. And I just want to see the thing that I'm very proud of about. The Daily Beast as we talk about Trump's appearance, because it's so important. It's so important. It's the central. The whole thing about Trump is it's all been about appearance. It's all been about appearance. He judges other people by appearance. His his defense secretary has told no beards, no fatties. They're all obsessed about appearance.

because it's a television and social media cabinet. That's who they're performing for. It's when Trump has his rallies. He has his group of people around him. There are far fewer people there. It's all about appearance. And his own appearance. also very clearly indicates that this is a man in his ninth decade. He's 80 years old, and he's not as fit. or as healthy looking as his skin looks terrible. His hair is weird.

It's as if he's also paying less attention. And I think we all know older people who have begun to care less. and who turn up on their stains, on their sweaters or stains on their jackets. They eat less well. And you can see that happening with Donald Trump in plain sight. And and, you know, one of the things we should have paid more attention to. with the previous president, Joe Biden, was his very appearance in his appearance. You saw him failing well. And then, of course, you saw it catastrophically at the debate.

But the idea. that you wouldn't. pay attention to someone's appearance is ridiculous, because in their appearance is an entire story. Yes. Corinne Jean-Pierre, who was Joe Biden's press secretary, in fact, his writing this morning in The New York Times about Trump making. the same mistakes that Biden made about disconnection from the. the weakness of the economy or the feeling that people have.

And she also mentions are the physical. feelings are you can't get around them. Of course you can't get around them. They can cause the bruises, the swollen, the fatigue, him falling asleep at his job. I mean, these are this is the president of the United States, and you can't make up for that. But driving 100mph. And, you know, I think for Margot Martin, those are those are essential points. But, Joanna, we have not talked about another man in his ninth decade who made a.

strange reappearance to public life this week, praising reappearance. And before we tell you who it is, we are going to show you some photos of his lesion where. and you can decide, well, you can decide if he has any taste in sweaters. And if you're listening on the podcast, yes, we we are coming to the answer. But these pictures are amazing. So we, you know, we have to we have to respect our YouTube audience. We have to respect our visual audience who will enjoy these sweaters.

as much as we have done. But we are talking, of course, about you, Newt Gingrich, Newt Gingrich. Some people probably thought Gingrich I hadn't heard that name in years. But if you are a particular type of Fox News viewer, you have heard that name a lot because he's on there quite a lot, and you might fall his wife on Instagram. Calista Callista is the United States ambassador. to Switzerland, where she posts a lot of pictures.

And, there people have pointed out that she appears. she appears to be using the AI for some face tuning. Well, good for her, yes, but her husband has a new job, 83, and he's got a new job. There is hope for us all. That you can never stop whining. He has been put in charge, along with two others who were going. to name of charting the future of warfare for hexes. Well, he can certainly, perhaps give them help on the uniform.

He is wearing an incredible range of sweaters. For those of you who aren't watching on YouTube, he's really gone into. colorful sweaters, patterns, sweaters, I think. I mean, it's so interesting that, well, there's definitely not camouflage. He's standing out from the crowd. I mean, it's like the visual equivalent of yodeling is what I would say. His sweaters are there in Switzerland, Switzerland, and he's just like, oh la la la la la la la la la la or whatever yodeling is.

But I mean, those are loud sweaters. Dude, those are loud sweaters. Anyway, he's coming to an army near you. Newt Gingrich, who thought his career in government was over. Not at all. Donald is here to save you. So Newt is coming in with Elon Musk. And this is about creating a new modern. version of the Army, which presumably they must have been doing anyway. Well, yes, I think they were. I think we know they were.

There was a whole drone command that Pete actually canceled. But, it's Newt Gingrich. Let's just get this clear. Let's just remind people, Pete Hegseth coming in, cancel. The drone command is now running around telling people that the army. is behind the times, that actually it's all about or, you know, man free. What is the way of saying it? Autonomous. Autonomous. Autonomous weapons. Hello. Yes, that's what Drone Command was.

And that Newt Gingrich will be. part of the three men with Elon Musk and Palmer. Lucky Palmer is a name that a lot of people don't know. I can just tell you two things about him. First of all, that he has Matt Gaetz, his brother in law. So there was that there was Thanksgivings. Must be epic. Oh, Matt Gaetz, who was up for attorney general and then never made it. the one the one person that didn't make it through Senate confirmation. Amazing that Pete did that.

Kristi Noem did that. Tulsi Gabbard did. So we know what kind of a person Matt gets is, yes, that he didn't get through. And Palmer, he's the founder of this company called Andrew, which is high tech weapons, a tournament AI, all these sorts of things on the battlefield. You know, this is also star Oculus. He started Oculus, which is the matter glasses. And he's the sort of hero of the real geeky.

Yes. Silicon Valley guy is this huge. I yeah, under underground hero or cult figure, I suppose you might say. if you're in the tech community, you idolize him. I think it's fair to say. And Hegseth has got these three guys together. Let's just just to be clear, none of them have ever served in the military. And. Well, let's be doubly clear. Newt Gingrich actually got, well, did a bone spurs, right?

He was void going. He is a draft dodge. He's a draft and he's 83. So you have to be quite old to be a draft dodger. He got a series of deferments for being a student. and then for getting married and having a child. Not to Callista. That's his third wife who cheated on him with Callista. while his second wife was dying of cancer. This was the first wife that got him out of Vietnam. And he admitted that. in 1985, he said, yeah, on reflection, I should have gone there. Palmer. Lucky number to service Elon Musk.

We know. Also, no military, no military service. And we also talked about no beards, no weirdos, no fatties. If you're lucky, is a weirdo. Elon Musk is a weirdo. Newt Gingrich is. Well, we're going to show you the photos. I'm not going to say it out loud. We don't bother shame. And if you're listening, just Google image, just Google image. But we're going to flash up a photo for those who are watching.

And we will let you judge. Yeah, you can decide. Meanwhile, I think Pete is basically turned the military. into his own personal training facility. That's basically all he does. He just goes around looking buff and posting pictures of himself looking buff. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's great. life being intoxicated, which he was at his last job. We know that because the staff working for him.

You know, whistle blew on him, and he promised to, as a slight name drop. I've actually seen Hegseth intoxicated. Oh, yeah, I didn't know that. Tell us. Well, where was this? It was a it was a wedding. And. ultimately in the media, it's a very, you know, people are connected. So by five degrees of separation. Pete, on the next table, and it was a Friday night. He was due to do the Fox and Friends weekend the next morning,

and it was very clear that he was intoxicated. and, he didn't fight to the shores next morning. Well, good for him. Sometimes people are better functioning on alcohol. Not often, but. Well, we'll not we are not functioning on alcohol. We're definitely not functioning on alcohol. Well, Hughie, it's Friday night. I think it's possible that we're entitled to a drink after a week like that. If you're watching this at home or listening at home, and you feel like pouring yourself. a glass of wine or something even harder, I don't blame you.

I'm not sure how else we're supposed to cope with this level of cure. Inspired by Newt Gingrich. I would rather have a clock or chocolate cuckoo clock. Yeah. Cuckoo clock. Yeah. Oh, gee, that might be his idea. That's how he's going to modernize the military by giving them cuckoo clocks. Because I can't hack those. Hey, I can't hack those. Yeah. Very funny. You. Thank you so much for a very fast turn around. So many new stories this week. If you have been. Thank you for joining us.

Big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Pasa, Heather Pesaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many BBC tier members now. There are two many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.