Here's the Proof Trump Knows He's Doomed: Rothkopf | The Daily Beast Podcast

David, how seriously do you think we should take. the various threats to the election in 2026 to the midterms very seriously? The reality is that they realize they're going to lose, and. so they're using every conceivable tool. in order to put their thumb on the scam. I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Today we're talking to David Rothkopf about what else but RFK. junior and Kid Rock's insane video.

They're topless. They're riding mysteriously a bicycle. in a sauna, which I'm no doctor, but neither is RFK junior, who runs a Department of Health. But I'm pretty sure that riding a stationary bike. and getting your heart up in a sauna is not a recipe for a long life. Anyway, we'll be discussing that. We'll be discussing The Madness of Trump with David Rothkopf, who is a former. Clinton, person who worked in the Commerce Department.

He was the editor of Foreign Policy magazine. He is the founder of the brilliant Deep State Radio. David Rothkopf. I wanted. to start with the spectacular video that our Secretary of Health. and Human Services has put out, that of himself. with kid Rock doing all sorts of things, and we will get into it. You've been watch. You've been watching all night long. I have, I've been I've had it on replay. I've had it.

I thought about coming on here shortly. Well, you can still take your shirt off if it's not too late, but I could. So. Too late. Right. I don't want to scare away. Well, I want to get into that. And I also want to get into the Democrats that you've handicapped. for the 2028 list, which I think is. super interesting that you've handicap for the 2028 election. But before we do, you are a man who is, in true liberal form, blowing up blue sky. this morning, a flippant blue sky.

from you about Andy Beshear and the world. The world has arrived at your door. Just explain for those who aren't on blue Sky yet what exactly you said? I, I it's Jesus, I said I he he's come out. It was a morning show this morning. He's got a book and Andy Beshear, we're talking about he governor of Kentucky. Right. A lovely guy, popular governor. And he's got a book and it talks about how important faith is to him.

Now, you know, there's nothing wrong with faith. Faith is a good thing. If you like faith. Great. But I you know, he's he's obviously running for president, and he has, in my view, you know, it's like saying he's he's wearing his faith in his sleep. And I've got a real problem with that in American politics. It's like if, if your faith is foundational too, great. If it provides you with moral guidance, great.

If it helps you be a better person. Great if gives you a sense of community. Great. But there's a reason. that we have just separation of church and state in this country. And it's not because faith is bad. It's because the entire history of mankind. is, is, is, is about wars. and bloodshed and unhappiness that comes when people. who are in positions of political power embrace faith in ways,

that could seem exclusionary to people. And, you know, and I also mention in this skit, James Talarico is like, super popular. He was on Stephen Colbert is a young guy. promising doing well in Democratic politics. So let's just remind people who he is. He's in the state Senate in Texas. He's running against Jasmine Crockett to be selected. for the Democrats to run for the Senate in Texas.

Right. And and and, you know, he's he's one of these guys who people think gets. Texas really well because he talks about religion. He also talks about and I think he went to a seminar here. He he talked. Yeah. He did. He went to a, I think an Episcopalian seminary. Right. He's about to finish it. Right. And he's he talks about separation. of church and state and inclusion and all this other great stuff. But, you know, throughout my life, what I've watched is candidate. after candidate who feels they have to invoke the Bible.

You know, they're they're unlike Morning Joe. They're also talking about scripture. Well, you know who's scripture, right. That it's no matter what you do, no matter how open minded you are, no matter how inclusive you are, there's a code there. that we get this right and you may not or you may not be part of this. And when it's in the context of a country where there is this kind of thrust,

particularly on the right that we're a Christian nation, that makes people super uncomfortable. But this isn't this, isn't this simply signaling, isn't this Democrats in conservative areas. signaling to partly MAGA, former Republicans who don't know what they are. So some independent voters that they have values, as it were? Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. And they're, you know, in.

fairly conservative communities and they're trying to signal that. I just am uncomfortable with it because, you know, as a historian, I've sort of seen what it leads to is the son of a Holocaust survivor. I have seen what it leads to. And I, you know, so I, you know, my view is practice whatever you want. Let's be tolerant, you know, you know, but let's try to minimize the influence of religion and politics.

And I put it, I guess, you know, the problem with when you read. something is it's short and you, the nuance is lost. But I've gotten beaten up a lot by people who said, well, the Democratic Party. is founded and, you know, the, the, you know, black church. And oh, so you don't like Reverend Martin Luther King or you don't like Reverend Raphael. But now I also I'm well, I love everybody. You know, it's like, no, that's not the point.

The point is that it's becoming like the the price of entry, you know, and and, you know, Joe Biden did it and Barack Obama did it and Bill Clinton did it. And they're all like out there. And I'm going to go and, you know, and and we have National Prayer Breakfast and stuff like that. And I have to tell you, as much as I love God and religion and spirituality. and all of that kind of stuff, the idea that every year the president goes to a national prayer breakfast,

particularly given the hypocrisy that's practiced there recently. It it just makes me a little uncomfortable. And I was trying to express that. And I am paying. Well, I think it's through my sins. I think it's the most excitement that there's ever been on blue Sky, actually, who knew that? That's what it would take to to have blue Sky go up. You get blue sky completely around. Blue Sky is all about liberals beating up each other, and liberals.

like nothing better except what they should be focused on. The Republicans. And also my favorite moment I think, is still, well, two moments. Donald Trump being asked what his favorite, book. is in the Bible or his favorite passage from the Bible, and him just saying. there were too many to choose from, and then him holding the Bible upside down. when he was using it as some kind of prop. He's obviously never read the Bible. Obviously, he's tried to sell.

his own version of the Bible, but how anybody could think. that he was a religious man at this point, and yet he has the evangelical vote. So, but I would say there is no there is no religious text in the world. that has any guidance for life in it that he has not violated. And, and, and. but I just saw a poll this morning. I think it may have been I'm on morning show that shows that, you know, although he's losing a little support evangelicals,

you know, only 45% of evangelicals, a 40%. think that he behaves ethically all the time. The vast majority of them still supportive. But but that's because they don't have anyone else to support. Yeah, right. And that will bring us to your handicapping. The people that you think are going to run in 2028 for the Democrats. But before we do that, I must I must debrief with you on the video.

that dropped yesterday and set Twitter on fire with RFK and kid, RFK junior and Kid Rock doing a strange workout together, which involved a lot of RFK Jr doing his favorite thing, which is parading around in his jeans with no top and plunging into, pools of freezing water and then cycling. I think it was kid Rock. It was cycling on a bicycle in a sauna, which cannot be advised.

whatever your age that cannot be advised. Look. It's just to be honest, it's hard for Olivia Nuzzi. I was like, is she sitting somewhere looking longingly at this video? You know, her, his former digital digital relationship. We had known somebody mentioned that also on blue Sky, that she's on her fainting couch looking at this. Oh she's just but but but you know, first of all, this was the most.

weirdly geriatric homo erotic. display that we have ever seen, right. And, and and so thing. that makes it weirder is, that it was released by the Department of Health, and. I know it's their official. It was first it was had their official site on their official. site, kid Rock.

Flip the bird to everybody. Sure. Yeah. That was that was also kind of strange. Why did you have to be so aggressive? That was unnecessary. I thought maybe he was having a sauna to re recuperate. from his Super Bowl performance. He may have had some aching joints after that. Well, exactly. And then, you know, they're the two of them together, shirtless, working out. And RFK Jr does this weird thing of wearing his jeans, no matter what. I mean, he wore the jeans in the summer.

He wore the jeans were working out. He wore jeans while getting into that tub. You know, it's like, okay, well, maybe he does that. to shrink the jeans back to fit him. I mean, I think I didn't. We all do that when we were 16. We would get jeans. and then sit as long as we could in a cold bath to make them fit properly. But talk to us about that, Joanna. Okay, cuz. I think I did, but he's 72. He's 70. Well he's great and he and that's fantastic.

Look, my wife told me that the way you don't wash jeans, the way you disinfect jeans is you put them in the freezer. Well, there you go. So he's putting them in freezing water. Maybe. Maybe I look I was sort of anxious. I mean, what would they have done if kid Rock paddling away in a sauna? Which, really, I just want to issue a statement. I am not the Health and Human Services secretary, but I'm pretty confident. that cycling on a stationary bike in a sauna is not good for your heart.

What would they have done if one of them had keeled over? Would they have still put the video out? I was wondering about that. There's no I mean, if if it was kid Rock that keeled over, our kid. junior might have eaten them right there because he's me. He wants me kind of big. Got roadkill. But I, you know, this was so strange. The thing is, it's coming. So the the the weirdness is so relentless these days.

that I feel like we've all like, I don't know, did this happen where we all collectively dropped on our head? And so it is it's a I slop. Because the other thing is do you look at anything as could possibly be real? I was like, obviously it's not real. And then I was like, oh my God, it is real, it is real. It is. And it's like, you know, the day after. we had to hear the story about Christy Noem's lover, who works for the Department of Health and Human, I did DHS, Homeland Security.

Yeah. Who works for them? Who who also on the side is a consultant. who hooks people up with DHS. And he's on a plane and she doesn't get her blankie. Yeah, we need to go into that because that's very important. So they fly around a lot at the back of one of the DHS planes. They, they both deny it. Apparently in a long term relationship with each other.

and married to other people. So there you go. That's a lot of people in their life. We're open minded here. I'm fine. Okay, whatever. Whatever keeps you focused. I meant she had a special blanket. A bit like a child has a special blanket. She had a special blanket, which, when one of their planes broke down. and they got transferred to another plane, the pilot, foolishly. and I say foolishly, left behind because when Corey Lewandowski.

found out the special adviser to Christie. name that the pilot had left the blanket, Christy's famous. security blanket on the plane, he then fired the pilot. there and just said, you have to fly yourself home. But he tried to fire the pilot. He actually doesn't have the power to fire the pilot and the Coast Guard, which is already pissed off at her because she's doing things like saying. use Coast Guard airplanes to deport people.

Instead, he she took them away from a mission. where they were searching for a lost service member. And, and she said, you know, no, we have to do some deportations here. You know, they're. already deeply angered by her. And, you know, in comes this guy who has this terrible track record. I mean, why should people hate this guy? He's gotten into fistfights, how she ended up with him. I mean, it's just everything you've heard about her must be true, but worse.

Well, he's almost, like, sort of cosplay advisor. She's always dressing up as a Coast Guard or as a member of Ice. We I think we actually started the nickname Ice Barbie for her. And now he's her Kendall. I guess better Ice Barbie than Klaus Barbie, but but they're close. And you know, the reality is that this was just another bit of weirdness. And every day there's, you know, weird. But we have to point out that he fired the pilot and then realized. there was no one to fly them to their next destination.

So he had to rehire the pilot. Yeah, but but again, he doesn't have the power to do that. He's a consultant for the Department of Homeland Security. I wonder if he was a consultant on the video. that RFK junior did with kid Rock. He might be. Who put that together? Who shot that video? That must have been his line of work. And you know, how how are they reviewing this over at the white House. communications office, which does some of the weirdest stuff out there, but,

you know, is this did this get run by, you know, Stephen Chung? Thank on it. It was not him with his shirt off, by the way. So because you're referring to the fact that Stephen Chung is larger, is a larger. member of staff of the white House staff, that he's morbidly obese. And Donald Trump is always saying to him, you need to go on the fat shot, the fat shot. Take your physical training advice from Trump. I once wrote a book. I've written a couple of books. that are sort of histories of how the white House works, and.

one of the those how it used to work or how it used to work. And, and I, you know, I talk to the people in these white houses. and it's a great privilege to be able to do that. And I remember. talking to a bunch of people who are in the Ronald Reagan White House, about Ronald Reagan. Right. And particularly during the last couple of years where he had been shot. and there were already signs that he was in mental decline. And I remember speaking to Frank Carlucci and Colin Powell and some of the people,

George Shultz, who are around him, and they said. that after a certain point, they just didn't. involve him in the conversations. Because they just didn't feel. it was value added, including, by the way, after 5 p.m. at night, God forbid, anything happened at night because he would sundown. He could he just he was in the middle of that. And you know, this is what's happened in this administration to, you know,

John Bolton in the first administration, literally told the staff, you cannot bring up Russia in front of Trump. He just reacts too strongly. He thinks it's always a criticism of him. If it ever has to come up, I'll handle it. But please do not use the word Russia in front of Trump. Wow. And you know, this is just this is how how it is. when you're dealing with a guy who's a freaking lunatic and who, you know, at like, you know, goes off in the middle.

I over this weekend, he went off again about not getting. the Nobel Prize, which he will never, ever get. Or he, you know, he goes off on these attacks on. I don't know, you know, bad bunny here, you know, I mean is. you know, he's he's he's literally out of control. And I think, you know, they, they realize they're going to get their clocks. cleaned in November and they're like, well how do we possibly minimize that?

Well, let's get our cracked teeth. from the gab at the let's get the cabinet out there. Because, you know, if you have Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth. and Marco and JT Vance, that's going to add. Scott Bassett that's going to really and and Howard love Nick. Well I think here's here's they want to talk about affordability. So do you call. you call the Secretary of Commerce because he's the Secretary of Commerce. How I'd act will go everywhere.

And in front of any audience. Howard, let Nick whatever words come out of his mouth. The subtitle like in Annie Hall. You remember the scene in Annie Hall with Woody Allen and. and Diane Keaton where they talk, but they're subtitles, right? Subtitle. Out of love. Nick, is Epstein. Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. He cannot be seen in public without being tied to Epstein. And. And so how are they going to how are they going to talk about affordability.

with with with Jeffrey Epstein's. next door neighbor and buddy, you know, being that being their point man. Well, and how can he talk about affordability when he's a billionaire? Scott Besson's also extraordinarily, he's also a billionaire. The 13 billionaires in this cabinet. So who's going to who's going to go out? You know, the the secretary of WWE who's blowing up our education.

department, Linda McMahon on who's, center millionaire, or at least I think. Yeah, but but you know, that they don't have. Right. As a middle class member of this cabinet who only has a few hundred. million dollars. I feel your pain, right, right, right. You know, I know about the price of milk. I know about the price of gas. Right. But but, you know, the the point is like, they they just can't do it. And so they're, they're, they're going to get their clocks cleaned.

and they're, they're desperately frightened of it. And I think I will make a prediction here that you can take straight. to the joint venture you should set up with Koski. Yes. I'm. Yeah. Totally. I'm taking it straight to Calcio Poly Market. Yeah. The predictions. No no it should be. It should be there you know. But there should be like a little like logo at the bottom of your podcast. So people can bet immediately. And then a chunk of that becomes The Daily Beast. Okay. Right. Yes. That's the future of journalism, right?

It's the future. Yeah. You should be able to monetize anything you read. Well, we should be able to monetize David Ross. Cop's opinion is what we should be. Well that's right, go for it. Go against. you know, if you don't like rough curve so much bet against his opinion. Doesn't matter. Monetize it. But I will make a prediction here. I don't think Christy. No will be the secretary of of. of Homeland Security.

at the end of this year. I think I think the end of this year, that's still. Well, I think she will go ten months to go at some point over the summer. I just don't think she can survive this. And they need to have a scapegoat because everybody. hates their immigration policy, with the exception of some small Nazi cells across America. And, and, you know, I think other people, I think they're going to have a bit of a,

of a housecleaning. Okay. Hold on. All right. What else are we going to talk about? So. Okay. So. So you think Christie name is is going to be out. Do you think RFK Junior's video, which I know I keep coming back to because. it's just the image of him and his story can't get it out of your mind. I, I can't get out of my mind. Do you think that that is him throwing down the gantlet for 2028?

No, no, I don't I you mean you think RFK junior thinks he can run for president? Michael Wolff, my co-host on, Inside Trump's Head, is convinced. that RFK junior is going to be running for 2028 for president. He's convinced it. Really? Yeah, he's convinced of it. Good. Well, it's you should have a range of opinion on your podcast. I'm not saying he should be president.

He's just saying he's definitely going to run. Look, he is crazy enough to do anything. I mean, that brain eating worm has finished. He's sitting there. There's nothing left to eat, right? There's nothing going on. Looking around an empty shell. Yeah, exactly. And so RFK Jr, he could conceivably do anything. Is he a serious candidate? No, because his policies are terrible. And by then, millions or tens of thousands of people will have suffered loss.

Their insurance died, you know, whatever. And, and, and you could see, by the way, that the, the, even the white House is a little uncomfortable. And you saw that even today, it's a little small thing where the, HHS said that they weren't or FDA was not going to review this Mr.. Na based, but on a vaccine for flu. And today they reversed it. Okay. You know, they did the you know, they realized that they're a little bit.

out ahead of their skis on a lot of this stuff. No, I think, you know, the, the, the on the Republican side, you're going to end up with, you know, Rubio. Let's I'm going to put a caveat here. If there are free and fair elections this November, and that means there will be something like that in 2028. Then you're going to end up with things like the Rubio, JD, Vance.

choice. If the Republicans can put their thumb on the scale. And the main thing that Trump is looking for. is somebody to cover his ass. in 2028 to make sure he's not prosecuted, then you're going to have Pam Bondi and Stephen Miller as the ticket. Oh, Pam Bondi and Stephen Miller, really? I hadn't considered that. They seem unlikely to have enough popular appeal, right?

I mean, people really do. Elections, like elections are rigged. If they can rig the elections, the person Trump wants covering. his butt is Pam Bondi, because she has completely debased. herself, taken the entire Department of Justice, turned it. into a department of obstruction of justice and retribution. And, you know, in his book, that's a winner. So, David, how how seriously do you think we should.

take the various threats to, to the election in. 2026 to the midterms this year that you go. on, go on, just talk us through the points that are most concerning. Well, the reality is that they realize they're going to lose. and severe using every conceivable tool. in order to, put their thumb on the scale. Right. So you had the the raid.

in Fulton County, to claim the voter rolls. This is part of a broader effort to get voter rolls, whether it's Pam Bondi. saying the Governor Waltz in Minneapolis will leave if you give us the voter rolls. or some of the other cases where they're trying to get them, why do they want the voter rolls so they can disqualify people? Why do they want to pursue the conspiracy theories about Fulton County. so they can say, well, we need to impound these machines. There's the potential problem, and you will never see the votes again.

You will never see what comes out of that. They're trying also, however, to win by gerrymandering. They're trying also to win, by, the save act, which has passed through the House. and is now. going to make its way to the Senate, which is an act that essentially says. you need to have a federally issued piece of identification, which a lot of people don't have in order to vote.

And that will that go through the Senate? I mean, my, my, my understanding was it passed the, the House, but it won't get through the Senate. But there's some doubt that it'll get through the Senate. But what I'm saying is they're trying everything, you know, they're trying gerrymandering. They're trying to coin voter rolls. They're trying to cast doubt on the elections. They are, you know, Trump repeatedly, he repeatedly. Why would he repeat about 2020 over and over again?

It doesn't benefit him, except if he can say these elections are rigged. They're not reliable. They want to undermine the reliability. of the elections, which authoritarians do all the time. But and just and by the way, so unjust to so confusion to I think. Right. So that you don't have to undermine an election by saying it's. completely untrue. You can undermine an election by sowing enough doubt that people aren't sure.

Well, and then you can challenge the results in court, and you cannot seat people who win in certain kinds of things. And then, of course, on top of all of this, you have them. sending troops into the cities. And Steve Bannon saying, we're going to have troops around. polling areas so that what they want, I mean, even him saying. that it's going to scare certain people from going because they don't just arrest. illegal immigrants, they arrest brown people, they arrest people who have accents and so forth.

And you have Christie, Noam, we return to Kristi Noem again, saying a few days ago that they are going to make sure. that only the right people get to vote in the elections. Yeah. And so, you know, so. what have I named just six different ways to get to this thing, which aren't you have the Director of Intelligence. Services, Tulsi Gabbard, overseeing the raid in Georgia. And then you have this strange. And I wanted to ask you what you were hearing about, about this this strange,

intelligence whistleblower that's been buried. in the intelligence Department that has suddenly surfaced. It was supposed to have been shown to Congress. That wasn't. That appears to be, fingering Jared Kushner. Well, I mean, by fingering Jared Kushner. What what he appears to be saying is that there is an intercept that the NSA heard. between two foreign nationals that suggested.

that perhaps Jared Kushner, was a source, of influence for them, perhaps. And again, we don't know the details. Acting outside of Fara, the act by which you have to register as a foreign agent. And, you know, there is some doubt about the credibility of all of that. The more worrisome thing with Tulsi Gabbard being in Fulton County.

is that all she has to do. is invoke the idea of foreign meddling. and say it's a national security issue, and then say, I can't tell you everything. It would reveal our sources and methods and then say, therefore, we have to. impound these voting machines. We have to investigate these people, we have to postpone. this election, etc., etc..

The but but the point is. it's belts and suspenders with them. They are using every available trick to try to win this thing. And of course, you know, Trump's. been pretty explicit about why he's doing it right. He has said he is doing it because he believes they will impeach him. almost immediately. And guess what? They will. And Steve Bannon has said if they don't win, he'll end up going to jail. Lots of them will go to jail and they should.

You know, I think the you know, one of the things that I find particularly. interesting is, you know, Trump is accused of, a lot of corruption. and enriching himself and enriching his family in the course. of this first year of the presidency, to the tune of $5 billion, maybe more. We don't know, because crypto's involved. And crypto could mean that it's billions and billions more than that. It's untraceable, and we will never know anything about it, except that Trump. became a big advocate for crypto as he came into office, because,

you know, it's a way to conduct essentially criminal transactions. But here's the thing about all of that, Trump. thinks he has immunity because the Supreme Court. has said presidents acting on official acts have immunity. Well, being corrupt, forcing foreign governments to pay, shaking them down. That can't be an official act because it's explicitly barred. by the Constitution and not one, but two emoluments clauses.

And so there will be an opportunity. to prosecute Trump on that front. And frankly, I'm I'm a little surprised people aren't making more of it, because it's, it's it's. it's ugly and it's and it's offensive. But it is also a real point of vulnerability, I think, for Trump. Well, and as he's pointed out, he's if if the Republicans.

don't get their act together, he'll be impeached. And that's why they need to do everything. they can to sow anxiety and doubt around the elections. It's an extraordinary turn of events, really. Perhaps it could have been predicted, but but here we are. So, David, let's let's have some Whoopi in the conversation. In terms of you. handicapping the leaders that you think the Democrats. might put forward, that might lead us to a better place.

Well, first of all, and any leader would lead us to a better place. I have a dog. He's a rescue. He's a mutt. He's part great Pyrenees. He's part. You know, I'm voting for your dog. I'm not exactly. Anybody would vote for my dog. Grizzly for president. Grizzly would be an excellent president compared to Trump. Right. So that, you know, if there are free and fair elections or even. and I think this is the best we can hope for.

moderately free and moderately fair elections. Then you could get a. change in leadership of the United States, which, you know, the world. You know, we just had the Munich Security Conference last week. The world is desperate for a change in leadership for the United States. The problem is it's three years out. And, you know, we're already starting to see people, you know, I mean, I, you know, Gavin Newsom is out there. and he went to Davos and he went to the Munich Security Conference. And he's writing books and he's doing podcasts.

And he's like full on campaigning. And I know for a fact he's hiring people. His friends might have been called by the Newsom campaign and said, Will you work with us? They also, by the way, been been asked if we're told. if you work with us, you can't work with any other campaigns. Which I. think is, you know, it's a little premature for that. But, you know, Gavin Newsom is out there. three years ahead of this now. Well, you see, AOC, the congresswoman was also out in Munich.

Let me get to her in a second. But my point, beginning with Gavin Newsom is it almost assuredly means. being the front runner three years that that you will not be the candidate. You know, Jimmy Carter, a Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, three years out, they were not going to be the candidate. They were not leading the field. Democrats, you know, are strange that way.

But also, American politics moves in certain ways and the zeitgeist change, and you need somebody who's going to speak to that, particularly given. the fact that we're in a very social media driven environment. So I think Gavin Newsom, who's currently the frontrunner, it there's some real. questions about how whether he can maintain that status. now, was AOC in Munich to burnish her potential presidential prospects? I don't know, maybe AOC is 36 years old.

She's only been eligible to run for president for a year. She's only been in Congress for a few terms. The fact that she was there, I think, is the beginning of her foreign. policy and national security education, not her effort. to deliver a finished product and move to the front of the field. Will she be important in the election as a, as a. as a as a as a progressive leader? Yes. Might she be a candidate. Might somebody be saying you can be the Mamdani.

Maybe. But I wouldn't I you know, I think she's going to be a big figure. in American politics for the next 20 years. I don't know whether you know, this round she's going to be there. Should she be considered on the list? Yeah, she should be. There are other people who, you know, are a little more, dry or less lightning rods than those two. Well, Andy Beshear, you mentioned and Andy Beshear, you know,

a lot of people like him. He's very popular in Kentucky. He's been a very good governor. He's he's managed to be both a Democrat and a red state. And a lot of people say that's what he's good at, was going to win. He's also. so dry, so stiff. He really speaks in policy paragraphs, doesn't he? I mean, he's got no kind of, I mean, even his jokes feel very rehearsed. Yeah, I don't know. I saw hit some videos on social media of him and his wife, and I was like,

oh my God, somebody watched a Mamdani video and said, oh no, Yuk it up, Andy. And you know, he's just not a guy to say, yeah, the mighty have the secret formula. Lots of people I know think very highly of him. He might he may he might have the secret formula. I don't think so. He seems low energy too. Yeah. I mean, I think when you see him on television, he's just he's so milquetoast. And to your point about social media, you need to bring more, I think. Right.

And there are there are always candidates that like look good on paper. But now, by the way, sometimes they become a candidate. An exact identical. one is is al Gore right? It wasn't Senator from Tennessee. He was also vice president. Super stiff. Looked great on paper. I actually think he won the 2000 election. But, you know, most of the time, those candidates don't make it through. JB Pritzker's losing a lot of weight. People are like, hey, JB, you look pretty good.

He's like Newsome speaking out, but JB Pritzker has a big advantage. Miss Sims from California. JB Pritzker is from Illinois. The center of the country, the rust belt of the country, you know, the heartland of the country is going to be important. But there are other people from the heartland, you know, Gretchen. Whitmer in Michigan or Elissa Slotkin in Michigan, Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, you know, are all people. who are likely to be in the mix,

as, as as people consider it another one who's not from the heartland. but is from the West and, and. and kind of a purple area who I think, you know, people should. not underestimate, despite the fact that he, too, is. a little boring is Senator, Mark Kelly, Mark Kelly. is becoming less boring. I mean, he shouldn't be boring. He's an astronaut.

It was an astronaut. He's taking on Pete Hegseth, his wife. Obviously, Gabby Giffords, who got shot in her line of duty, is a congresswoman. Right. And he's been a you know, that they're they are profiles in courage. His life has been a pro. And, you know, he was considered. as a vice presidential candidate back when Kamala Harris was running. He is seen as somebody who could appeal to a broad audience. And, and frankly, you know, it's like Trump. threw him a lifeline and made him less boring by having Hegseth go after him.

Right? Because all of a sudden, now he's fighting and winning against the administration. So is he's a he's a somebody. who who, you know, is going to potentially be in the mix. But this fact that, you know, there's this kerfuffle around. these these congressmen and senators who said don't follow illegal orders. illustrates something else, which is. we don't know what the story is going to be.

come the primaries. Right? We don't know what the thing that's going to be dominating the headlines. And and, you know, it could be, you know, a war with. China over Taiwan or failing to go to war could be a Trump scandal. Or it could be. it could be wrong or Iran, it could be some more Epstein thing. or some other kind of thing, or Stephen Chung, as you know, you guys called him up. I'm a nobody. He the data that's right. That's exactly what Stephen Chung said.

Why waste why was there good ammunition on me? But say you don't know what the story is. and you also don't know what's going to catch fire. You know, two weeks ago, Jon Ossoff. was running to be reelected as the senator in in Georgia. Georgia started talking about the Epstein class. And you watched him and you said, gee, this guy's got a little bit of that. Mamdani vibe. You know, he's he's he's young and he's smart and and so forth. Jasmine Crockett's another candidate who, you know, might figure in that.

Somebody who did the last time around, who's now going to come at this. having been a cabinet secretary, super articulate gets how the media works. is is another, I would say front runner. if you had 5 or 7 frontrunners and that's Pete Buttigieg, who you know is, perhaps the. best communicator the Democrats have.

Even when he goes on Fox. On issues like this, he certainly, but I will. So he gets I checked your you've written a very good column. about this sort of handicapping. Everybody. I checked it against Poly Market. And, you know, some of the people you've mentioned, including Mark Kelly and Andy. Beshear, even figuring at this point. that Gavin Newsom's around 20%, like they're handicapping him right. now, 20%, AOC at 4%, Kamala Harris at 4%.

We need to discuss whether or not you think Kamala should run again. Josh Shapiro at three and Pete Pete Buttigieg creeping in at 2%. Do you think, Carr, do you think Kamala should run? I think Kamala will seriously think about running. I know she will. Seriously, I know there are a lot of people. around her saying she should run, and I think she will be underestimated. Because, look, she was vice president.

She ran she had a 107 day campaign. where she very nearly won the shortest campaign. She had a miraculous growth in that campaign. She knows what doesn't work. And the albatross around her neck the last time she ran is gone. She doesn't have to be the Biden administration spokesperson. on all of these issues. She can distance herself from Joe Biden and be more of herself. The question for people who know Kamala Harris and who admire her.

is whether she will be comfortable being herself, whether she can get to the point where she will do that. But, you know, should she be on the list? She certainly should, you know. But you know, what is probably market reflect does it reflect the, you know, polling and the thoughtful opinion of political analysts. and some inside special sauce that they've. No it's like what's in the news and it's it's you know probably. market is a reflection of the conventional wisdom.

as filtered through the minds of people who are stupid enough to bet on this shit. Well, I think it reflects people's visibility, doesn't it? The name name recognition is incredibly important is what. Donald Trump brought to the table, even more so than Jeb Bush. And it can't be underestimated as something that people find helpful, because a lot of people don't follow this very closely until the week before. And then they're like, oh, I've heard of that guy, right? But and, you know, it's I think where we are in, in, in,

in this election day, three years before the 2016 election, when Trump was elected, he was considered a non-factor. He was under percent. Nobody thought that he had any possibility. He started when he started running more seriously, which was 2015, which was a year but a year ahead of it. Moving up a little bit. But there is something else associated with that,

which is Donald Trump recognized. I hate articles that give Trump credit for having some secret genius or something. because he does it. But he he is a creature of the media, and he recognized that the media was changing and that social media was going. to drive things, and traditional media were not going to drive things. And if he had the backing of some people on social media, plus the right wing, you.

know, communications ecosystem, he could, you know, make it work, particularly. because he wasn't running a campaign based on policy. He was running a campaign based on making headlines, being an entertainment figure, being a celebrity. And and I think that's changed presidential politics a lot. And and so the one of the questions is, you know, I mean, you know, there are people out there, you know, Andy Beshear as. Mark Kelly were tailor made for Meet the Press.

I don't even know if Meet the Press is going to be on the air in 2028. I don't think. people care about that stuff anymore. And the things that are, you know, they're they're they're. political candidates right now running campaigns on Twitch. Because that's where the rising voters are. And, and so, you know, again, we're three years out, everything is going to change dramatically in terms of what.

the media environment is, what works in that environment. And, and, and, you know, we haven't we haven't had a campaign. in which, for example, AI is a huge factor. And, you know, you get a slop and you get people making shit up with AI. and you get documents being dropped. that are made with AI and all this other kind of stuff. And you've got AI driven, robo calling and AI driven, you know, that super customized or AI driven.

We had a little bit of that at the last election when people were calling. Someone had put someone who is an AI version of Biden. perhaps weak as an AI candidate. I mean, we might be able to make better decisions. You just feed everything into one of the, you know, ChatGPT or Claude or, you sound city. You sound like Peter Taylor, you know, and I do sound like peace to sleep. University. I'll pay you $100,000. You will elect the AI as president or the Antichrist.

Will that go all or grizzly? Rothkopf. It's a dog. It's an AI robot, or it's the Antichrist. Well, I'm voting for grizzly. We could build an AI assistant for grizzly that had the combined. wisdom of all presidents and all commentators. Honestly, we could we could do that. That's pretty easy. Yeah. Chat, chat. I was talking to somebody, and I would they'd give him.

a some presentation on something and they said, no, we we did a great job. And I said, how did you do this alone so. Well no, I did it with chat it. and chat feature. Well right. It was chatty, chatty, the chatty. There sidekick. But but the point is, you know, we have known about AI as a factor. for precisely 18 months as a society. Yep. You're right. We have to go to complete cycles of that to get to the next election.

We don't know. So we're all fascinated by it. Is it because it just seems so urgent right now with Trump in the white House? It's partly that he keeps raising the specter of it all the time, too. Is constantly talking about the election, constantly talking. about how he won really in 2022. Much of our information stimuli in the world are Trump centric. Too much of it is power to politics is now.

so much part of our entertainment system. We cover it like it's sports. I mean, look at you're. one of the most thoughtful people I know for sure. You get up in the morning and within 20 minutes of getting up, you pick up your phone and you scroll through within 20 minutes. What do you think I am? The minute I wake up, I reach my phone. I have my phone by my bed.

The minute I wake up, the minute 20 minutes, which seems like a lot. I was 20 minutes. What seemed like forever. I don't know what to do with myself for 20 minutes. Exactly. And everybody does that. They get up. Or is it because they're looking for information? No, they're looking for endorphins. They're looking for a little shot of something to wake them up in the morning. Ideally, most of them are like, is he still alive? It's trust a lot, right?

That's, you know, did something happen last night. and you know, but I mean, that's that that's that's part of it. But or is there a scandal. What a Kristi Noem too. Well, there's always a scandal. There's always the scandal. I mean, it's an incredible scandal this morning about, a congressman. who's Aids committed suicides, a terrible scandal. There's there's always something and it becomes it's not politics anymore. It's your breakfast, you know, it's your morning cup of coffee.

But isn't it better. that we think about politicians like this than we used to think about movie stars? I mean, what I am fascinated by is that the whole nature of celebrity has changed. And Donald Trump sort of single handedly has been responsible for that. He's turned the people around him into a cast of characters, and we're as interested in Pete Hegseth. up and down personal life or, or Corey Lewandowski and, Christine ome social life as we are in Brad Pitt and Angelina. And that might be a better I might I might be a better use of our faculties.

I don't know if I would give credit to Donald Trump. And I'll give you a couple of examples. Homer, not Homer Simpson, but the Iliad and, you know, talking about kings and heroes. You mean that old writer that old blind guy? Yeah. So it's the same them all weird. But he did. And or Shakespeare, you know. Come, let us sit up on the ground and tell sad stories of kings long dead.

Right. That was, you know, that was, you know, his shtick, right? We were into that. And you may recall back in your youth in the United Kingdom, the royal family and the royal family is just. Why did you even have the royal family? I have no idea. Why did we have the royal? For the same reason you have Christmas pantomimes, entertainment, right? It's entertainment. Entertainment. You could talk about it. You could say, oh yeah, Princess Margaret, she did. Or.

Oh yeah, Camilla Parker-Bowles and did this thing with this man and, and. and so this idea of politicians and celebrity has been with us a long time. The thing is that we consume it differently now. We consume it constantly. We consume it not just. at a distance. Pick up the morning paper and read dry words about what's going on. But to actually provide more chemicals inside our brain.

to make our days more interesting. and that, I don't know if that's the way. I don't that's the way we should be picking leaders. You know? But but it is. And that's why, you know, Zoran Mamdani. one, because he. he but he ran the most complete social media campaign that has. ever been conducted in the United States, speaking to core voters.

in little one and two minute increments in a way that got them viscerally. Yeah. But he also ran against two candidates, one of whom had been, well, one of whom lives with 19 cats, Curtis Lieber. So he was not going to get the vote. And the other his other option, the other one was Cuomo. Yeah. Who was exhausted, who looked angry and exhausted and had been forced. to resign from office after being accused of harassment by 11 women.

No, no, no, Donny, Democratic field. The Democratic field. If you think of Curtis Cleaver, who lives with 19 cats. and he's not even the third weirdest guy in the field, because don't forget Eric Adams. All right. Well, but Eric, who is the weirdest, most correct. Yeah, I know, but he was the mayor and he was a Democrat. What is the only man that wanted to fly to Paris. via Istanbul so he could get upgraded to business class? Certainly. Why?

He was the mayor of New York in Turkey. Ever. But but but but but the point is, Mamdani. got the fact that political discourse now is. much more. woven into the fabric of our daily lives. Trump got that fact? I don't think, you know, I don't think that's going to be reversed. And I just don't see Andy Beshear.

being woven into the fabric of our political lives. You know, the Gavin Newsom, you know, he was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle. He's a little cuckoo. You know, he he does have a shot. But frankly, people are going to get a little tired of a guy. who wants to be president so damn much. And, and, you know, that's that's the vibe he's giving off. Yeah, but but but the vibe compared to Trump naming everything after himself. and literally changing the face of Washington to reflect.

that Gavin Newsom seems positively shy in comparison. I mean, now the latest Trump is naming every every transport hub. We've got Penn Station, we've got Dulles. Airport now, we've got Palm Beach International he's naming after. And also and also this was I was thinking of this earlier. when we talk about a weird exotic trip. Trump has trademarked Trump. International Airport as if it that way. And so he can own the intellectual property.

of the name of these airports, or maybe the website or whatever the hell. But yeah. No, no, it's it's the his obsession. to name everything after himself is. I mean, it makes, you know, Nero look like a reckless. Well, you know, I, I take your point about Gavin Newsom wanting this very badly, but nobody is going to want it as badly as Donald Trump. So in comparison with Trump, people look fairly modest.

Yeah. But and I think the question, as it has always been the case, because I think everybody who has become president since George Washington. has wanted the job too much. I think it takes a certain kind of psychopathology. to want to be the president and the more in the more modern era, more so because you have to be doing it your whole life. You have to be willing to sacrifice a lot to do it and so forth.

And so the question could become like, it has been in the past, which is. who does that in a more healthy way? You know, who is who is a psycho to become president in a more healthy way. You know? And, you know, I, I'm pretty sure Pete. Buttigieg has wanted to be president since he was in high school. I mean, he really, you know, I think since he was in grade school or possibly. kindergarten, possibly, but was also also Mamdani, though he wasn't born here.

So harder for him. I mean, all of these people are super ambitious. All of them are super ambitious. The question is when the ambition becomes psychotic, and which, as in. the case of Trump or when it's off. putting, as in the case of Newsom or when it's, you know, under control, as in the case of, you know, Barack Obama. Anyway, David, as as I approached this morning, I'm still recovering from my hip surgery.

And thank you to everybody. I actually feel fantastic. Are you using a walker or are you using I could progress to a cane, which is very exciting. But as we as we got on today, I thought, oh goodness, what am I going to talk to David about? I feel I've been slightly out of the loop, but but once again, we managed to have covered everything and so much more to go, you know? You. Yeah. Because you because I'm a little psycho, you know, I talk to you. and I went to see the hip doctor and I.

because I was like, oh, Mike, you mean you went to see the hip doctor? Because I had I had touched your hips, Maya. I was like, oh, well, you need to have shirt. I said, I'm going to the doctor. And I said to, you know, I'm just going to get Pete. And you were like, Pete is for wimps. Have your hip replaced. And so I went and I called the doctor. I went in the doctor. and they like, did all sorts of scans and they said, no, you're fine. Good, good good good.

All right. So I don't see them this time. When I'm back on the tennis court, we'll be able to finally have a game. We can, we can, we will finally be able to have again. Smith courtside and and launch your latest Daily Beast podcast. Courtside. Oh we cannot courtside. We could do courtside. We could actually be talking across the net nice like we could. Anyway, it's all these rule ideas if you have beans. Thank you for watching us. David's. got so many ideas and he's got so many opinions,

more importantly, that you need to sign up. for The Daily Beast to read to his opinions, especially his handicapping of the 2028 Democratic wannabes. Although as you heard, some of them, he thinks, want it just too much. And that's off putting. But you have to want it enough, David. You have to want it. And it's all balance. It's all, it's all. There is no balance. There is no balance. That's my feeling. This zero has no balance. Trump has. That's why The Daily Beast is doing so well.

Because are you saying we're off balance? No. Well good. Now that you mad. But no, you're kind of the paper of record of excess and imbalance. Well, there's a lot of excess. There's a lot of excess. Right. That's likely. Yeah. We try to be balanced in our reporting though or or at least thorough. We over report and under comment. But then we have commentators like you which you have to. transform the reporting of the Daily Beast, the reporting of the Daily Beast, particularly in the area.

I'm Washington reporting in the past 12 months, it's 1,000% better. Well, that's that's our team. David Gardner, Farah and, Farah Thompson. Ansari always who are terrific grown up team. Don't they are grown up. They're really reporting and with, you know, the sinking. of the Washington Post into a swamp someplace that really fills a void. Good. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. But your columns fill a void, too, of lively, provocative opinions.

As you discovered on blue Sky today. Right. And as I, you know, and when I'm burned at the stake, I hope you collect them into a volume. Memorial volume. David. Thank you. So the good news is. we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out, and we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team Devin, Roger Reno, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passa, Heather Pizarro, Neil Rosen.

House.