Ghislaine May Be Helping FBI Expose Epstein Elites | The Daily Beast Podcast

Based on everything I've learned. and heard about Jeffrey Epstein, from the many people who have spent. a lot of time with him, I do not believe it's time for man to kill himself. Pam Bondi, if you're listening, it's down to you. I'm Joanna Coles, chief content officer of The Daily Beast. This is the Daily Beast podcast, and today we have an intriguing guest. She is a one woman media empire. Tara Palmeri. She has the red letter, her Substack and The Tara Palmeri Show,

which is her podcast where she interviews. Congress people and celebs who are interested in politics. She also did a podcast called Broken Jeffrey Epstein, which I still find intriguing, and I have so many questions for her. Like, was he murdered or did he brutally kill himself? That old chestnut. Anyway, no time to waste. Let's get into it. Tara, thank you for joining us.

Tara Palmieri, I'm so excited to have you here. You branched out on your own. Do you have worked for Politico, ABC, POC, and now you're working for yourself. You've gone independent. Explain exactly the perimeters of your empire. Oh, thanks. I wouldn't call it an empire just yet, but I appreciate that. One day, I just thought to myself that if there was ever a moment. to go independent, it would be right now to start my own media company.

People are choosing. people. over institutions. They are choosing influencers over institutions. They are choosing individual journalists over institutions. There is a general distrust, and I think. the more that the people who are reading your news. or reading your scoops know about you, the more trust that you build. I think a lot of people read the news. and they see a byline, but they don't know that person behind the byline. They don't know anything about them.

They don't even know if they should trust them. But if you are a an independent news journalist, you can have a bias. and you can say, I don't like here is my bias, is my bias your bias? Take it or leave it or I'm I'm not coming in that direction. I'm coming as a, nonpartisan journalist, which makes it difficult, frankly, because I think a lot of people go to the internet to self-soothe. with voices that tell them what they want to hear. And I mean, sometimes I'll go on a show and I'm on with a personality.

who is considered, you know, further to the left or. and they'll say, you're MAGA, because I reported on Trump's relationship with Stephen Miller. and how it's more complicated than people think. Or I go on to voice on with a person who represents the right, and they think you're left. And and so it's really hard to win anyone over. And I think ultimately what I'm trying to do is just present. my information, build a relationship based on trust. That's all we have. And in so many ways, the journalism community has lost that.

And so I do think there is an opportunity to try to rebuild the trust. with our audience. And I do think it's through individuals, and I think it's through allowing people to understand who the messenger is. But isn't the advantage of institutions that actually they serve that up because. most people don't have time to do that? I mean, in my wildest dreams, I would love to sit down. and read 30 different influencers before I start the day. Just so I have a kind of, you know, a variety of opinion. But in fact, the point about the New York Times. or the point about The Daily Beast is they do it for me. Totally.

And that's why I subscribe to The Daily Beast and the New York Times. Excellent. No, I do, I do, I do know and I listen to your podcast. I listen to Kara Swisher at pivot, I listen to I love the turning points crowd. I like to listen, I listen to Megan Kelly sometimes. I listen to Ben Shapiro. I like to listen to people on the right, too, and I want to hear their. how they defend Trump. Hard to listen to me, but I think it's. Yes, but sometimes I it's interesting for me to hear how she defends Trump.

and how they and how they're spinning it. Do you even believe Megan Kelly? I mean, Megan. Kelly used to be this sort of liberal, and now I feel like it's all performance. Let's just leave it. Yeah. I mean, I just sometimes I think she knows I think she believes a word, but. she's just found a niche and she's very good at promoting that niche. But it just doesn't feel like the real, real Megan Kelly at all, who lives on. the Upper West Side, sends her children to private school and seems, you know, thoroughly at ease with her now lucrative life.

I listen, I you could very well be right. It's certainly a lot easier to make it in this game. by serving up red meat over and over again as an attractive woman. And, you know, I'm sure her audience is male men who used to watch cable news. They watch her now, she is extremely expressive and angry, and she reflects their views, except in the form of a beautiful woman. and she serves up red meat that you're not going to hear from a lot of women.

And that is, I'm sure, enticing it. You know, I feel like there's a whole ton of red of women who serve up red meat. I mean, there's this, you know, Lauren. Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene, who are obviously politicians. But I don't know, I feel like Laura Ingraham, there's a whole channel devoted to them on Fox News, right? I mean, Megan has so many. hours or so between serious she's on YouTube. That's the other thing. The she she's a bit like Law and order.

And now there's just you'll never knowingly an hour. away from a new show or a rerun of it. Exactly. She's on all of these different platforms. The other thing is that the YouTube audience is actually getting older. I mean, I go home and I see my father and he's, you know, he's on 70. Yeah, 70, but it's like a 65 plus crowd that watched it on their TV. Like, it's like it's TV going from show to show to show. And so she sort of dominates that. I so I do think I do think at times it's disingenuous for outrage.

And I do wonder sometimes, you know, how can you bring on Mark. Halperin, for example, who has been accused of, you know, sexual harassment of so many women that I've worked with personally in my career. And I'm like, why is he getting a second shot? And and on your network. of especially considering what you had to go through at Fox. So that's sort of upsetting. to for me personally because I saw did you work with Mark? I didn't I came after him at ABC, but I saw the wreckage.

I saw what that kind of personality can do. And the women that I spoke. to, who and some of the men out there also knew about it. I mean, he was only choosing women who were so junior, the type of women that are like, they have no power. when a political director is coming on to them like that, it can just it can make them choose to never be in the business. It can can ruin their careers, and they're not going to go to HR. I mean, who has who has the guts to do that in the beginning of their career?

And so I get I, I don't like to see this. And then I see it on a woman basically giving him a pass. It's just it's sort of upsetting and okay, what's a good, interesting. time to talk about it? Because we just had the verdict. You spent some time doing a podcast on Jeffrey Epstein. Yes. What is your whole view of the MeToo movement now then? I think men are now the victims. and women are all right. It's just changed so much. Women,

they're constantly questioned. Men are getting second passes. I mean, I think the fact that President Trump was reelected. and also just sort of it. it invalidates the movement in a lot of ways. And I don't think, I don't think that people are really interested in. hearing about the trauma of women anymore in the same way that they did before. It really have to break through the the story of power imbalance. It just it doesn't break through clearly, how people are abusing their power.

And and that is the common denominator in all of these stories. Right. And rape and it's all about power. Sexual harassment is all about power. Those men could be with women who are on their level, but they don't. They go for women who are powerless. And that's and that's the common denominator. We publish the Jeffrey Epstein tapes, which. I thought might have impacted the election. Yeah. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, as you know, because you've done a podcast on him. We're very good friends.

And we had tapes through the author Michael Wolff. Of Jeffrey Epstein talking about Donald Trump. Right, which were fascinating. It was fascinating to get an insight into Epstein and hear his voice, but it was also fascinating to hear him on Donald Trump. and the maneuver the two of them would pull together. when they went out to pick up women at casinos in Atlantic City. Right? Right. He always gave his, aunt and mother a room in his casinos. Whenever they went down there, he would always hook up the Epstein family.

Trump. It is a it is a weird relationship, right? Although Trump was ready to to to turn on Epstein when he had a chance. because of real estate, not over the women. Right. Which is the part that really is the most upsetting. I mean, people want the smoking gun, right? That connects Trump to Jeffrey Epstein and the underage girls. But I think at the same time, he was obviously so aware of it. that he had these young girls around. I mean, even according to a lawyer that subpoenaed Trump,

he told me that, you know, Epstein had told them he's in a Big Brother program. And that's why there there were these young girls in his, at his pool and, big, Big brother big sister program. And it's like, do I think it was that kind of. Yeah, exactly. I was expecting. Right, right, right. And it's like at that point, when do you start to think. that the people around, I've seen these high flying people like, why do they all look away for so long? I mean, do they do they aren't they with some of the guilt too?

What did you think? What did you think at the end of your podcast on him? What did you what was what were your conclusions about Epstein? I think he's a sick individual. I think he was using that information. as Kompromat built his business to make to get money. I think he traded in secrets. I think that, he was helpful to agencies within the US. I don't know, I can't confirm abroad, but I think that he also. What do you mean? He was helpful to h.

Well, we know that he was an FBI informant. At the very least. A lot of people are. But, you know, he was an FBI informant, and that was that factored into his sweetheart. Do you love the way you just throw that out there? A lot of people are. I don't know, people who are FBI. Okay, that's. Well, at least I'm hoping that none of my close group of friends are FBI informants. Yeah, you're right, but, I mean, he was literally. You have lots of friends who are FBI informants. I know a lot of people in law enforcement, just probably because of being a reporter. That's different to being an FBI informant. That's true. That's true, that is true. You're right.

I don't think I realized Jeffrey Epstein was an FBI informant. I mean, I'm not an expert on Epstein in any way. I didn't realize it was an FBI informant. So he was informing on all the people that came to his house. I don't think had dinners and things. I don't know that. he was necessarily doing it based on the sex trafficking angle of it. But, you know, he was obviously traveling all over the world. with the wealthiest people in the world. And he had information. And when they were putting together that sweetheart deal, he had given them. information as part of the deal so that he got it off. I mean, he was literally in a county jail and got to go into his office.

It was basically house arrest with an ankle bracelet. Right. So he spent the nights in John, Florida. And we also know that he had meetings with the FBI and his schedule. that were found. And we know that he met with Bill Barr, according to Bill Barr, schedule. at least three times. And when he was the deputy FBI director, I'm sorry, deputy CIA director. So he has, you know, he had we know that he has at least met. with the CI, a CIA and the FBI, and that he had given FBI tips.

I, you know, through my reporting, had heard about this as well, but I it's, you know, these are meetings, so it's hard to say. Right. What exactly, exactly. There's the problem in this story is there is just so much conspiracy. So I try to play in the land of facts. as best as possible. Although I have spoken to so many of the, survivors, I was really close with Virginia Giuffre. I mean, I spoke to her months before she died in February. And there's a new story in The Times of London right now about the final,

months of her life. And I didn't really feel comfortable saying this. because we have created this friendship, but it seems that her family wants it out there. But, you know, she wrote about her husband abusing her. and that she really lived this really difficult life. And she opened up to me about that too. And I didn't feel comfortable sharing that because of for. for the fact that it is her personal story. And it wasn't really something that she broadcasted herself. Her family wants it out there, so I feel okay with talking about it. It's obviously public, her diary, but for all the people out there.

who were like, she was offed, it's like, no, she lived a lifetime of sexual abuse, starting at a very young age, by the way, a very, very young age, even before she met Epstein. And it's just that so few people really get, they get, so. they get. So I got. obsessed with the wealth porn of it all, the rich and powerful men. that they sort of. forget the grooming part of it, the fact that they chose these very poor, disadvantaged girls on the wrong side of the intercoastal in Palm Beach.

Right. And they had a lot of them had been sexually abused themselves. A lot of them, their parents knew that they were going to see Jeffrey Epstein, but that $200 for the massage actually helped the family, you know, and it's like there and then after being abused by Epstein, they often moved on to lives where Courtney Wilde went to prison. She had drug problems, you know, they'd suffer with mental health. They end up in abusive relationships and and a lot of them.

are suffering, like with mental health issues. And, and it's not surprising that she would kill herself on the idea. that she had to be offed. I mean, she no, it was clearly a tragic life. Yeah, it's a tragic life. And it's just it's like, I think that the victims are lost in all of this and how they suffer. through after what they've already lived through. When did where did you conclude that Jeffrey Epstein's money came from? Okay. Well, I definitely think it started with last Wexner. You know, he's the founder of Victoria's Secret.

And they had this weird friendship that some thought was borderline sexual. They were so close. He introduced him to his wife, Abigail. I never heard that less. Wexner was necessarily a party guy, like some of that scene's other friends, but, I mean, he sold him his townhouse at such a discounted rate. in the Upper East Side. It's one of the biggest townhouses in in New York City. Famous townhouse where you see Prince Andrew coming out of it.

being snapped by paparazzi. Exactly. Leaping around the door to see if there were any paparazzi. And they were hidden. Exactly. And it just the relationship was very strange. I think he he opened up the world, the world of a, a math teacher at Dalton, who, by the way, was, who got in trouble for trying to pick up students. Okay. How do you go from being a math teacher to this wealthy financier. hanging out with people who work at Apollo and getting Bill gates. and all of the richest people in the world to spend time with you,

I think Wexner was the conduit and at least got him into the door. And there's a lot of reporting on this, too, about how they spent. a lot of time together, and he showed up seeing the high life. Now, I some have suggested that they were lovers. and that was last did not want that out there. And that is part of the reason why he would even do this. But that he would even open Jeffrey up to that world. But Jeffrey became intoxicated by it. And I think that Jeffrey liked to trade on people secrets.

He also liked to brag a lot. And I think you probably. heard that in The Wolf The Michael Wolf tapes as well. Jeffrey like to be like Trump's, my boy. Nothing's going to happen to me. Bill Barr's my boy. Nothing's going to happen to me. You know, he was like he liked to brag about his connections. He kind of knew he was. He knew he he was a fraud. And he needed those connections. And he needed Glenn Maxwell. for the polish and for the entree into high society. And, so that he wasn't just some weird, kind of slimy guy,

but but he still died with, I think, 600 million in assets. So I'm still very curious. as to where he got the money from, what people would invest in him. He would take their money and he would, you have to give the money back at some point. I mean, usually investors expect to return. I mean, anyway, if you have if you have some kompromat on people, they might not be quick to ask for the money back, right? I guess. Anyway, so fascinating, he would say that my returns are better.

You would, you know, he would make his pitch. But if you've been partying with someone. over a weekend, are they really going to be hounding you? It's it's like, I don't know. I mean, who knows? It's all it's all fascinating. And, and that's why it's hard to do this story. I mean, I have obviously spoken to the survivors. I've seen their lists of the men that they've been traffic out to. And they are just really, really heavy hitters. And that's why I also think the why hasn't list come out yet.

Why hasn't Gillen spoken? Why did Gillen accept a 20 year. sentence instead of just helping? I think she's had their inquiries. I think she's probably helping them right now. Oh you do? Yeah, I do, and there is no list, by the way. That's just not a thing. Like there's. Jeffrey wasn't hoarding. some like, little piece of paper that had all of his clients on it. who were the heavy hitters that were supposed to believe were were doing this. I mean,

if I said it on the show, I would probably get killed on the way out of here, not killed, but it would make my life very difficult that what I thought, but I don't I and I but how much more difficult can Glenn Maxwell's life be? She's got 20 years in jail. Why wouldn't she just say these? I don't think she's going to spend all 20 years in jail. Do you have no idea? I have no idea. I don't think so. I have heard any. What? That you think Trump will pardon her? Oh, I think she gives them more information.

They cut her sentence to a shorter sentence. I can't let her out right now. There will be public outrage, but nobody's paying attention. Story's gone away. Here's Glenn's out or gets, you know, ends up in some nice prison. This is what I've been told by law enforcement source. that they are working on cases against the johns. releasing this footage or this, you know, this. It's a lot of it. I've been told from, from survivors who have been brought into the FBI. to see if, like, is that your body under this, John?

And they. I mean, one of them told me that she said, no, that's not my breasts or that's. not my body. That's not me. You know, they have pictures. They have. So is it true that that Jeffrey Epstein was taking compromising pictures. of all the people that went to his, I mean, I, his house when they first raided it. for the 2006 case, they found a lot of cameras everywhere. Plus he had pictures of the girls all over his house. There was definitely a sort of photography.

There was definitely photography. At the very least, naked pictures or or like arty pictures. Well, the pictures that I was told from the survivors that their lawyers. brought them in to see, to identify themselves under these man like I'm there. I have to assume they were taken surreptitiously. Right. You know, and they, Yeah, it's a requirement. I can't even imagine thinking about this. But yes, I've been told from law enforcement that if they released.

this, this evidence, they could also reopen Glenn's case. So there's also so what are all the videos that Pam Bondi has that. people keep saying she's about to release? Well that's it. Oh these are the yeah. Yeah. These are. the Epstein files that she was supposed to have given to all the influencers. First of all, I don't think they could release these images. I mean, they're they involve minors. That's another thing. There's privacy concerns. Why can't they just black out the minors? I guess they could. But then also, there's, like,

some of the minors might still know that it's them from the pictures or. I'm not. They're not minors anymore. Obviously they're adults. There's also just the fact that, like, some of this evidence, like I said, could reopen Ghislaine Maxwell's case. And they're also trying to build cases against some of these johns. So if you put out the evidence like into the public domain, it could you're hurting your own case. And imagine the people that you're up against. They are going to have the best defense attorneys in the world. And prosecutors don't like to do a case unless they think. they're going to win, right? So they got a lot of time to work on.

Oh, I died in 2019. What are they doing? Is there a special task force? I just don't think they think they can. I don't think they think that they can win against these people. I really don't think they think they can win. because the people are supposedly so powerful that. Yeah. And I think that a lot of these men. too, were with women that were of age, by the way. Right. So then there's no crime. Yeah, exactly. And that's and that's hard to and that's and victims have told me that too. The girls were 18 or they were 19.

Jeffrey really kept the young ones to himself. So that's another part of it. So you really have there's a lot of and you're not just going to put out. a picture of a man over a woman, a public figure like that. Until you've got it nailed down, it's I think it would be. It doesn't feel like it must. It doesn't quite feel like. it would be that hard to nail down if you've got the girls. All right. Girls all know each other. Yeah, well, a lot of them knew each other. Anyway. I wasn't expecting to go down this spiral.

Oh, there's a lot. There are a lot of questions. Now, I know there are a lot of questions. And I literally spoke to senior law enforcement source last week. about this because I'm like, why is the vault basically all redacted? And there is no list? Like, that's the other big misconception. I know it's a political weapon. that people use against each other, but there's no secret list. But there is. There is more evidence than we've ever seen before. I've looked through most of the evidence. A lot of it is just Virginia's, case and case and her, but it's very.

complicated when you deal with these sex crime cases as well. I'm not trying to give the FBI a pass or the prosecutors a pass at all. I do think they kind of hope this would die. It's it's it's going to be a tough one for them. And I'm sure the guys that they're up against will figure out ways. to make it die. You also have to factor in, witness tampering. and what they're doing to these girls to keep them silent and to, to make this really difficult.

This is they have ways. I mean, they nearly ran Courtney Wild off the road. when she was trying to do her Crime Victims Rights Act case. And it's. the only reason why Jeffrey Epstein was arrested again to grow over a decade. It's scary. Wow. Tara, for those who haven't watched or listened. to your Jeffrey Epstein podcast, you actually, went around the country. with Virginia Giuffre talking to people who were involved with Epstein. at the same time. She was correct. Yes.

Virginia was definitely there. at the height of the sex trafficking operation. And Virginia and I, we went all over the country. and I went with another survivor as well, more like a cartoon. A and we just rang doorbells. That's the pilot who still hasn't released his flight logs, because there's one pilot who still hasn't released his flight logs. The house man. Want a lessee? We spoke to him, and he ended up being used as a, as a witness in the case against Glenn Maxwell.

We we tried to talk to other friends of Jeffrey Epstein's. We went to the celebrity chefs who Jeffrey Epstein was friends with in New Mexico. We went to his his his, Adam Perry Lang, like, we went to his restaurant to try to talk to him. We went all over the place. We knocked on doors, and we really did shoe leather reporting, because a lot of the things that Virginia said, people would just. She's in there for ten years, really. And everyone, no one listened, no one listened. And so it was really important, not just for the credibility of the show,

but for Virginia, that she could find people that would say, I remember you, I know you, I remember that your person I mean, it was really heartbreaking for her, especially with the, Prince. Andrew from to be like, I never met this woman before. And. I don't think. people understand what that feels like for a victim. For survivor, it's like they feel like they don't. They never existed. Well, then there was the photo. There's a photo. Exactly. And so for her to find these people who were around that were present,

for example, one remember distinctly, he remembered. seeing Prince Andrew in the house and preparing a massage room for him. He remembered bringing some of the girls, driving them back and forth, and. one of the girls that he used to bring, she ended up testifying against Glenn. He was a really he was a, a critical witness in the case. And we also found another woman who was grooming and procuring girls. for Jeffrey Epstein. She was younger than Glenn, but there were a lot of Glenn's.

And I don't consider the minors to be Glenn's, by the way, the ones who are part of the pyramid scheme. I, the inmates at school. I'm talking about kids. I mean, I'm talking about adults, right? Yeah, right. Women in their 20s and 30s who were part of the, machinery that supplied. the three women a day that Jeffrey Epstein exactly needed. Exactly. And so we went and confronted one of these women, and it was really something, and it's just it's a really, really hard story.

I saw the emotional toll it took on Virginia up close. What was the title of the podcast? Just in case people want to watch it, it's called Broken Jeffrey Epstein. That's right. And, we start with, we start with an episode called The Enablers. And those were the people that we talked to that worked for him and made. sure that he that the clocks were turning and that the things were happening. And and it's hard. I mean, he really paid his staff well because they, you know, they.

saw a lot of really gross stuff. And it was it was really tough. And then the friends mean they were. the friends that saw it. I mean, they were enablers too, in a way. Yeah. It's extraordinary. Well, this has given. all the conspiracy theorists about Epstein much to think about. Do you think he was murdered or do you think he was he committed suicide. Okay, see, this is going to take away credibility. from what I just said, but I believe that he was murdered,

and so does Julie K Brown, who I work with on these podcast. She was executive producer of. She's the Miami Herald journalist who helped reopen the case. But just tell me on who do you think murdered him? Okay. This is not based on my own reporting, by the way. This is based on a CBS 60 minutes report from Sharon. Alfonzo, who I think is a great reporter, by the way. By the way, there are a lot of really great reporters at work. in mainstream news. So I'm not trying in any way to, like, discount them. And I get my news a lot of them from them. And I know that they're great reporters, too.

So Sharon did a report about the prison. Well, the jail where, this jail and the Manhattan tombs. Yeah, exactly. Or the tombs where they put out Chapo and all these other people. So. it is suspicious. I mean, how can you not think it's suspicious? The guards are asleep. The the the video footage is gone. Jeffrey was not the type to kill himself. He thought he was powerful enough to get out of anything. He even said to Courtney Wilde's, lawyer. Like, you're never. They're never going to arrest me again.

Trump's my boy. You know, he never really believed it. I mean, even in his note prison, it's no fun. Does that sound like someone who wants to kill themselves? This guy is an ego maniac. Narcissist believes that he's almost god like, right? I do think that there is a part of like, pedophilia, or at least this Uber wealth. where the only thing you can't get is children, right? You can buy everything else, but not children. And so he's a sick and twisted person. And also in prisons, pedophiles do the worst. They are the lowest of the low when it comes to criminals.

Right below even mass murderers, they don't do well. People kill them. And Sharon. did a report on this cop. from Long Island who was in this prison as a child or so. Yeah, he was a child. Yeah. I can't remember exactly for what, but I thought. it was a really striking report because she brought up the idea. and she interviewed his lawyer, by the way, and the and the cop. But the idea that he might have been paid. to kill Jeffrey Epstein by a high net worth individual.

and that, you know, maybe we should go check out, go to take a trip to Long Island. and see if there's a new car outside of his wife's house or like, you know, they upgraded something or because that would be the way to do it. You know, an inside job. pay somebody. It's a lot of effort to make it look as if someone's killed themselves. with a yeah, but a cop, a know how to do it, I guess. I mean, think of how many crime scenes they go to, how many times they see suicides. True. So that one I thought was the most plausible story.

I don't think you know Hillary Clinton went in with a pickax and killed him, you know, or even Mossad or CIA, I think I think it was likely another prisoner who was paid to do it. And it was the Long Island policeman, and he did it for the money. Yeah, I think that sounds the most plausible. The idea that Epstein killed himself, that just doesn't ring true to me. But. I this. again, I want to be. transparent about my reporting, and that is just something.

And even Julie says it to this day, and she's done. a lot of reporting on this, too. And she's just like, she just she still thinks that he was killed, too. That's fascinating. What do you think? I don't know, I just don't know enough about it. And I always think that it's usually the most. prosaic answer. That is the right answer. Like, I can completely believe that two people fell asleep at night. when they were supposed to be on guard. I think one of them was shopping on Amazon, right?

Like, well, it was historically a jail that was very poorly guarded, right? It was really badly raided. The New York Post would constantly write about it. I know this because I worked at the New York Post, and this was what they obsessed with the jail and how it was so poor. Yeah, but I really haven't done a deep dive into the Epstein thing, but I know it's a source of much interest and intrigue, and I'm I'm very intrigued by why he was such a compelling figure. to people like Bill gates, who have access to many compelling figures.

So it felt weird to me that he would want to hang out with. with Jeffrey Epstein, given what he knew about him. And clearly it matters to Melinda Gates, his wife, who cited his friendship. with Jeffrey Epstein as one of the triggers for their divorce. I think he was a party. I think you got to go to Jeffrey Epstein's house, and you knew there were going to be a bunch of hot. chicks there, like, I hate to say it that way, but you knew that they were going to be young, beautiful women there and they were going to be.

And it felt different and not like going out with. probably Melinda and the normal crowd that Bill gates would be invited to. I don't think Bill gates was probably invited. to a lot of those kinds of parties. And Jeffrey was it was weird. He's a guy in his 50s and 60s, and he's hanging out with all these young women. And and the other thing about you go to any club in New York. and it's always guys, yes, but not hanging out with young women. Yeah, but the thing that Jeffrey had that those men don't have is that Jeffrey.

also had very, he had. powerful women around him, too, who were validating him. Right, Jalen? Well, that was the power of Dylan, right? Glenn. And there were a few other women. Tell me a little bit about your Maxwell. Oh, because I haven't watched that. Oh, I haven't listened to yet. What was your conclusion? Because I had a lot of friends that worked for. Oh, I can only imagine. Yeah. One of his, one of the things he used to like to do. was interview people for a job in the car on the way from London,

where he would meet them. or pick them up to his house in Oxford and Headington Hall. And what he would do is after the interview was over, he would drop them. on the middle of, in the middle of the motorway, and they would then have to find their way back. and you go, the interview is over, and then the driver would pull to the side. and they would literally have to get out on the middle of the motorway. He was he was a disgusting person. That was what I gathered from helpfully horrible peeing in front of people. Just such disregard for him to pee off the roof of his building,

I think, to unsuspecting pedestrians below. Right? To be fair, I, I did this podcast. in 2020, so it's been about five years, and I, as much as I was interested in him and the, the the oddity, he was a little pervert perverted to, to be honest, he seemed like that to me. Here he was a strange character. And it is amazing what he came from a shtetl and Eastern Europe, and then changes his name to Maxwell and then becomes this press baron.

Tries to create this empire. Really does. I mean, he wants to compete with the Murdochs. He wants to buy the Daily News he did on the Daily News very briefly. It was really impressive. And even sort of in the same way Jeffrey Epstein was able to sort of go. from being a guy from Coney Island, a math teacher into this. Well, I know at the heart they were con man, right? They weren't. He he spent half a half 1 billion pounds, I think it was 500 million pounds of the pension fund.

On his lavish lifestyle. Chopper ring here, there and everywhere. His boat, the Lady Galleon, having huge parties, unlimited expenses for lots of the people that worked for him. And he must have been completely panicked that he was running through the money. I always remember when, one of his sons, Kevin, was married to a woman called Pandora, and some people came up the driveway and were banging on the door, and she. leaned out of the window just after Robert Maxwell's death, after he, I assume, committed suicide by throwing himself off the boat.

But I have some more. No, you're right. No, I don't. I don't actually make a conclusion about the conspiracy theory, but yes, well, I just remember her leaning out of the window and saying, go away. or I'll call the police. And they said, we are the police. And they'd basically come to arrest her husband, Kevin. Yeah. He was found not guilty, actually. Yeah. Yeah. That that it's really sad. We we spoke to. some of the people who lost their pensions and it was really hard for them. There he. Tarah I think he was a terror.

He was a conman and completely nailed it. And it's really weird. that Glenn, who was his favorite child, although he bullied her too, he was not great to her, bullied all of them, I think. Yeah, he did, and he was very hard on her about her. weight and her appearance, but he also thought she was the most beautiful of the children. So he showed her off. He treated her like he was his wife, bringing her to events. And, you know, there were some reports that he was the one. who introduced her to Jeffrey and, that.

No, I think he did. Right. It's I don't has it been confirmed? And I, I'm not sure it's been confirmed that he did, but, you know, she kind of fell after daddy died. She fell into Jeffrey, and she was in love with him. She was always in love with him. Very weird relationship. And he treated her terribly. I mean, think about that. Having to be the groomer and bring young girls for this man. who has an insatiable desire to be with children and to, every few hours.

It was disgusting. And that was the life she chose a doting on him, and he was a character that really was in some way, so many ways, a psychological profile of her own father and. Right. Well, and I think she was used to being around money. Right. When her father died and left the family destitute, she was looking for someone else that could look after. She did end up getting a townhouse, a $20 million townhouse. So I'm not quite sure she couldn't get a job like the rest of us. But, you know, it's tough when you've,

It's tricky. Did you ever meet her? Did you know her? I met her once. And the thing that I found interesting about her was she was. She was predatory to the men in the room. I met her at a friend's birthday party. But the other thing that she did, which I'm. Which I was subsequently told was one of her habits, was that she wore a wig and she would move the wig slightly. when she was talking to, which was extremely disconcerting. And so her hair would sort of move and you'd be like, oh, what was that?

That's the only thing I remember about her that sounds about, being compelling. She had a strong presence in the room. You couldn't not pay attention to her, right. And she would make outlandish comments, right, so that everyone would pay attention to her. And yeah, one of the games that she used to play was apparently. when people would go and stay with her for the weekend, she would. she would blindfold the men, make the women take their tops off, and then make the men feel their breasts and identify them to the women. Oh, gross. Yeah. Weird game.

Very glad I didn't go to a party like that. I would have had to sit that one out. There was so many women that spent time with them, like Eva Dubin. You know, the Duponts are one of the wealthiest families. And that was the thing. I felt that the saddest part about the Epstein story was how society, this high society, would look the other way, even after he was found guilty. Well, just because you're rich doesn't mean you have good judgment, right? I mean, we assume that because people are rich, they must have excellent taste. and excellent judgment, and they frequently have neither.

I know, but if there was a pedophile in my neighborhood where I grew. up, you know, no one would want them in the neighborhood. No one would have them over for dinner. He was arrested for trafficking a 13 year old for prostitution, as if a 13 year old could be trafficked for prostitution. There's no such thing as a 13 year old prostitute. And when he returned to New York City, he sat down with some of the most. powerful people in the world, and nothing like nothing had happened. So that is the problem.

If he came to where I grew up, why did you grow up. to grow up in new Jersey in a very middle class town? You know, a lot of people are nurses, teachers, secretaries, a lot of firefighters, cops, tradespeople. And so, yeah, no, we don't we wouldn't let that happen, you know, that. He just wouldn't be allowed around. And he that that that would be seen as someone who was a threat to our people. I think this is your new Substack. I think you need to do a Jeffrey Epstein sex.

I mean, this is this is just as interesting. as as Trump. and the enormity of what's going on in the white House. Yeah, I think so, too. I just really it's really depressing, honestly, because it's not part of it that gets me down. I think about I just think like, I knew that these girls were being preyed on. because they were poor, like the girls, that he never went after. The children of the wealthy, the wealthy of his clients. No, never did that. No no no no no.

He picked the girls from the wrong side of the tracks. Who literally some of them, according to court. documents, couldn't even afford the shoes they were wearing. And the sickest part about it is that sometimes their parents drop them off. and they knew what was happening, but they needed the money that bad, and it was just really dark. And there was a pyramid scheme going on in the school. Nobody cared. And it was just and it just was like, it's really the pyramid scheme. Being that the girls would introduce other girls to Jeffrey Epstein. He was so known in the in the school that there was a 50.

something year old man in Palm Beach who was doing this $100 for a massage. Yeah, for some girls had braces. He like braces and like them to look as young as possible. It's just stark. So I know that's. probably not what you wanted to end on, but I think it's that, to me, is like the. That's what I don't want people. to forget about this story and. the Johns. Yeah. So do you think the Pam Bondi will actually. come after people?

I mean, she keeps threatening to release the Epstein videos. I'm not quite sure what the videos are, but is there more information that Pam Bondi has? According to my sources, they have this information and they're using it to build a case. Will they build a case? And I think, like I said earlier, that they have to build the strongest case possible because these Johns. are the most powerful people in the world who will hire the best.

lawyers in the world, the best defense attorneys. And you will have, yeah, some of the best prosecutors, but still up against the best defense attorneys. And then there's the witness tampering. There's the privacy concerns. And again, they don't want to open up Glenn's case. again, that she's going to look at that as an opportunity. Their their lawyers are waiting for them to do this so they can pounds. and say this is prejudicial information. We could use this in our case. We want to reopen her case up. So I'm again, I am not I'm not saying that.

the FBI or the CIA isn't slow rolling. This this is tricky. This is tricky. And by the way, the names on those lists are the lists that I've seen. from survivors, not the list. Right there from both sides of the aisle. It's amazing to me how many people have gone down over there, Jeffrey Epstein. okay, so you think Bill gates got sideswiped by the guy at MIT? He got, you know, lost his job over it. Prince Andrew has lost his princess ship over it.

Deservedly. It's incredible. Hello. Liam Black lost his CEO ship of Barclays, the company he founded. Right. And then Barclays last daily at Barclays. Last Wexner was removed by the board. Right. It's an astonishing list of people, actually. Right. But none of them have been prosecuted, which is concerning. Like you said, that is the problem is that no one's been prosecuted. Stand up a case. I mean, even if it's a shitty case, just stand it up, let the people know.

Well, and to your point, they may not have been under age. The girls may not have been underage, may have looked young, they may not have been underage. And we also don't know about how many of these women have settled. privately with some of these men. And they've decided because of that, they don't want to cooperate. There's you know, there's a lot of different factors. I hope they do something. There is a there is a demand in in the society right now. And I think there's a real feeling we need some justice. It took a long time for.

them to bring the case against Garland, and it was pretty easy. Well, I think if they do bring a case, you're going to be the first person. to hear about it. You're going to have to pay attention. Cora Palmieri, Media. Because I know a lot about this stuff anyway. This was not the direction that I expected the conversation to go in, but okay, I'm really intrigued that you think he was murdered and by a Long Island policeman. So it's I'm just I'm basing that on the 60 minutes report. And I do think that that is the most compelling thing that I have heard.

Right? The most plausible and just based on everything I've learned and heard about. Jeffrey Epstein from the many people, we've spent a lot of time with him. I do not believe it's the type of man to kill himself. Pam Bondi, If you're listening, it's down to you. Tara enchanting to have you on the podcast for having me. So much for coming. Yeah, I think all the conspiracy theories online about the Epstein case are going. to, are going to somehow out here on the YouTube. radar about this conversation and come, come flocking.

Anyway, very interesting, very provocative. And we wish you incredible luck as you go. I know you're going away on holiday, and of course it won't be a holiday. because when you work for yourself, you end up working every day anyway. But I hope you get five minutes to have a break. You are a machine of content and we're very excited to see what you do next. Thank you so much for having me. It's a real honor, and I'm a fan of your show, and I'm always amazed by how much news you break. You really do move the news like I mean.

Well, white House Correspondents Dinner would be nice. Yeah, I'm very impressed. I know I it's my fault that, well, it's our fault, but Amber Ruffin. yeah, I ended up getting fired. And the white House Correspondents Dinner turned out to be rather dreary. and earnest. Did you end up going to me? I did, I did go, and I missed, badly, I think everybody Mr.. Actually, I think the evening needed a comedian, and if I were them, I would not have fired her. I would have kept her. I thought it was a strange moment that you would fire the comedian.

I don't think it was great either. Although her comments were pretty off the wall. But I also was a comedian. Men make comments like that all the time. Male comedians make comments like that all the time. And, I felt they shouldn't have fired. Yeah. There is a double standard. Isn't it weird. Well that was not a conversation I was expecting to have. I certainly didn't know that Glenn Maxwell was back helping the FBI. and that there are likely more legal developments to come.

Pam Bondi, it's all down to you. You can follow Tara Palmeri at her YouTube channel. You can just subscribe or, you can also subscribe to her on Substack. You can subscribe to The Daily Beast to for minute by minute updates on everything. that's going on. And there's a lot of it right now. And you can leave us a comment on our YouTube channel. Thank you for joining us. And don't forget, as always, be Beast. This podcast was produced.

by Devin Roger Renault, Anna Von, and it was edited by Jesse Millwood.