Diva Trump’s Hair Secrets Exposed: Wolff | Inside Trump's Head

It is only equivocally. not a wig. He has what are called patches, and they call it the patch kit. And the patch kit is little, you know, small tufts of of hair that match. whatever color his hair might be at the time. The patches are, you know, they're stuck with some kind of paste. So they're they're pretty secure. But also just the fact if Trump says it's not a wig,

which reminded me of remember Nixon saying saying I am not a crook. He does a lot of this himself, the hair maintenance. But then he has somebody who's following. And there have been a couple of people over, over, certainly over the political years who've carried the patch kit. They are next to the people who carry the nuclear codes. Michael.

Joanna, it's Labor Day weekend, and yet there is no rest for us. Michael, because we have a lot to discuss. Steve Wyckoff and Jared Kushner have just arrived in Moscow, Moscow, as we call it, actually in the UK. But I actually like Moscow, the American pronunciation we've got. Why is Donald Trump insisting on flying on the Qatari plane. even though he knows it's not secure enough? We have Melania refusing.

to attend his mini RNC in the run up to the midterms, though. Natalie Hart looks like she is going to be in full attendance. And we've got work on the triumphal arch. Will it begins in the next two weeks or will the courts suspend it? I can't wait to get into it. What is wrong with this, Michael? We would rather nerd out on this stuff. than you be picnicking on Two Mile Hollow Beach.

without the hum of a data center within 100 miles of you, two Mile Harbor Beach and its two mile Hollow beach, not two Mile Harbor? No, it's hard to Mile Hollow. It's two Mile Hollow, my friend. I've been going there for 30 years. I thought you went to Connecticut for 30 years. And I went to Connecticut for ten years. I don't think you've been in the United States for 30 years, have you? I have 30 years next year, actually.

But I did come before then. I came for sneak peeks of what would turn out to be my life. Well, anyway, in Labor Day, we are just waiting for the people. who finance the data centers to leave us in peace here. So we don't have the data centers, but we have the people who pay. for the data centers. Well, and you have the they will go rich as of the census, as of Tuesday. Yes, they will all go home. And instead of taking 15 minutes.

for me to get my coffee in the morning, it will take one minute. You could just make your own coffee, Michael. Yes, but then I like to go out and and smell the air. That's why we're out here in the Hamptons. That's why you're out there. Okay, so for those of you who are joining this podcast for the first time, it's inside Trump's head with the author, Michael Wolff of many, many books. But four books about Donald Trump and two about Rupert Murdoch, who's salient. in our thrice weekly conversations where we go inside Trump's head.

Michael, do you want to explain our POV? I will, but in Rupert will be relevant today. because we're I think we should talk about Maria Bartiromo. and her swift exit from from Fox News. Do you think Scott Jennings is freaking out right now? Because Maria, having left Fox in, how should we say inconclusive. circumstances, is headed straight for the white House press podium.

Is she going to be the new white House press secretary? I would say it was that she left inconclusive circumstances. And I'd say, you know, I don't know if I were Maria Bartiromo, would I want that job? That is a hard, hard job. So I don't know. Would she take that job? She's been offered that job before.

So would she take it now? I don't know, but I don't think I don't think Scott. Jennings is going to get that job. I think it will be a woman who gets that job. Okay, well, we can come on to that shortly. And we're going to come on to. I know you have all sorts of history and thoughts with Maria, which I'm curious to get into, but I do have a question for you. As as a bald man, do you have thoughts on Trump's?

Is it a wig? Is it not a wig? You know. No. I mean, I know, I know, I mean, of course insists it's not it's not a, not a wig. It is only equivocal, not a wig, because I know that they carry. he has what are called patches and they call it the patch kit. And the patch kit is little, you know, small tufts of, of hair that match. whatever color his hair might be at the time.

And, and those are applied. if, if needed and if necessary. So the maintenance of this hair. is a major enterprise and has been for many years. And my first book, In Fire and Fury, I describe Evancho, who was then she had a kind of amused perspective. on her, on her father, and she described the, the,

the, the way that hair came together of having to having to tease it. in certain ways. and having to pull it in certain ways and having to fluff it in certain ways. And so you kind of created this confection on top, which is it does look like one of those spun sugar. things that you could put your hand in and pull it out. and start eating it, and it would have no calorific value whatsoever. But he insisted on Wednesday that he'd never worn a wig.

It was not a wig, and as proof, he offered a speech. He gave, in fact, in support of Bernie Marino, the father in law of Max Miller, the congressman who is being accused. of breaking his two year old collarbone and threatening his wife. with violence and determinedly still standing for Congress. All it all comes together in, all comes together. But Trump said, no, no, it's it's you know, it's not a wig.

And, you know, that was a very, very stormy, windy night. And my hair didn't blow off. Well, his head and blow off because when we got the photos. of the film, in fact, he was wearing a one of his MAGA hats, which was pulled. firmly down and probably Velcro. around the back to his head. The patches are, you know, they're stuck with some kind of paste. So they're they're pretty secure. But also just the fact if Trump says it's not a wig,

which reminded me of remember Nixon saying, saying I am not a crook. and you know, it, it. that's probably a pretty good indication of if Trump is. is making a declaratory statement, then the opposite is probably true. But it is, you know, and would you call it a wig? These little patches I. you know, this is where we're in the the nomenclature of hair.

I wonder if Natalie Harp trots around with him, sort of tending to his hair. Does it go to someone who looks after it specially like a hair specialist? I'm sure the original concoction is that. But during the day he can't be followed. Like, no, he doesn't seem to be by an address. Yeah, no, he doesn't really. It's not really a hairdresser, per se. I mean, he does a lot of this himself, the hair maintenance. But then he has somebody who's following and there have been a couple of people.

over, over, certainly over the political years who've carried the patch kit. They are next to the people who carry the nuclear codes. Wow. The patch kit and the nuclear codes. Leaves aren't the only. things changing this time of year as the seasons shift, maybe you're thinking about making a change of your own. and finally starting that business you've had in the back of your mind. It can feel overwhelming to figure out where to begin,

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of your first sale, head over to Shopify. To start your free trial today. That's Shopify. Beast. So talking about nuclear codes, Jared Kushner and Steve Wyckoff. arrived in Moscow recently, shortly a couple of hours ago, to carrying a new proposal, not carrying a patch kit.

Or maybe it's carrying a patch kit for the. moth eaten efforts at trying to get peace between Russia and Ukraine. And they're having a sort of conference of sorts this weekend. Well, there's a couple of threads that I think come together here. I mean, curiously, Putin said last week he was he was. he was dissing I think he was dissing. the CIA director who had flown to Moscow to issue.

what, what seems to be. several warnings and to give cautionary advice. to the Russians, which is to say you're not going to win this war. And Putin dismissed that and dismiss the CIA director, but at the same time, praise Jared Kushner. And Steve Wycoff praised him. as though he were they were his friends.

It kind of sound like his colleagues, which is brings back. that other theme, that other Trump theme, which I think has has been buried. by so many other Trump themes that there is. a weird relationship between a clear relationship. and a clearly weird relationship between Trump and Putin. Now you will remember, perhaps in the first,

although it is hard to remember in the first administration, that was a central theme. You know, what was the collusion with Russia and I. and that was we left that unresolved partly because. because Robert Mueller, who was leading that investigation, kind of both punted it and got too old to finish it. And then it was taken over by the Justice Department, which Trump's. Justice Department, which whitewashed the whole thing.

But nevertheless, there is an enormous body of evidence. about this, this weird, again. relationship between Trump and Putin. And and it continues now to to raise constantly raise questions. Why is why is Putin. not being stopped dead in his tracks, both in his pursuit of the war in Ukraine,

which, as you recall, Trump was going to solve overnight. And now in his increasing. I mean, really stepping up on a day. by day basis, his threats against Europe, I mean threats in a sense. that begin to destabilize the world order. in ways that we haven't seen, I don't know, in my memory. So John Ratcliffe went to see him, what, three weeks ago?

Four weeks ago was the first time the head of the CIA had been to Russia. since before the Russia Ukraine war. Trump dismissed the trip as, oh, this is routine. This is routine. CIA director to do this all the time, which is not true. Do you think Putin is trying to drive a wedge. between the CIA and Steve Wyckoff and Jared by shouting them out? Do you think he's trying to get Trump to fire John Ratcliffe?

What what's his or is he just being KGB. ish and devious and disruptive for the hell of it? Yeah. No, I think that he has a I think he's sending some signals. So what is the signal? The signal is I want to do. I, I might do a deal with Donald Trump and I'll do that through. Donald Trump's guys and and you know, the government and the. and the I mean the CIA and you know, there's a lot of a lot of different,

different threads in any government, in different factions, in any government. And there is certainly a strong faction in, in the United States government that says, you know, I mean, Ukraine is the good guys and the Russians are the bad guys. The person who I don't think sees the Russians as the bad guys. consistently has not seen them as the bad guys. Is Donald Trump and and Jared Kushner.

and Steve Wycoff, both men are there representing, let's be very clear on this, representing not principally. the United States government, but principally Donald Trump. So what's the relationship between these two guys? I used to sit around with Steve Bannon and, and, and. and we would speculate what does Putin have on Trump? And I think that that still after all these years is a.

is a is a is a worthy question. What is that relationship about? I mean, Putin is is one of the you know, if you can. if you can isolate a really despicable figure in the. in the world power structure right now, it would be Vladimir Putin. I don't think there's any who would argue otherwise. except Donald Trump, except only Trump. Yes, of course, who would say is a great guy, great guy.

Never met anyone like him. He's wonderful guy. Is it possible Trump just sees Russia. as an enormous economic opportunity for himself? Well, I think Trump sees everything. as an enormous economic opportunity for himself. I think that that is probably at the. the one of the baselines of. understanding the second Trump administration. Where's the big coming from?

And so, yeah, probably, but I think that there's also something else. I mean, what has propelled this weird. hands off relationship. with and in the context of this weird relationship? I mean, we don't have an answer to this, you know, and this is I mean, there's. obviously been a lot of speculation, and Steve Bannon is hilarious. On the subject of, of of all of the things that Putin might have on him,

including his, his, his college transcripts, which I was always quite fond of, that his, his, his set of days at the, at the Wharton School, at the University of Pennsylvania. Yeah, interesting. And of course, he was married to two Eastern Europeans, to Ivana. And Melania remains married to Melania, though who knows how.

How long for? And of course, Jared and Steve Wyckoff are supposed to be going to. the Ukraine tomorrow. Okay. Well, we've we've seen this, this little film before. We have we have how are they travel? They're traveling. By what plane do they take? That's a great question. I don't know, maybe they take one of the spare Air Force ones. because Donald Trump is going to do the bag.

Ireland his golf course next weekend, I believe, and taking the Katari. grift force one, which as we know isn't yet fully secure. And I'm really curious as to know why do you think he. why do you think he is so obsessed by that plane that he's prepared. to compromise his safety by flying on it? Well, I have a few questions about that, because at the same time that he's. flying in in what is apparently an insecure.

playing, there is a greater lockdown. of the white House ever before, you know. You know, I mean, the Secret Service has always asked for greater and greater and greater. security around the white House, because that's their job. Who gets blamed if there is any kind of breach? It's the Secret Service. How do you avoid that? You just put up more, more fences. You dig a moat around the white House.

You do all of, all of the extreme. things that you might do to protect the white House. Now, there's always been resistance against that because this is America. This is a democracy. This is the people's house. You know, if you look like you live in a, in a, in. a, a fortified in a fortress, that is that that begins to look like you against the people. Well, that is what is happening now at the white House in this. And this is, of course, part of the overall structure,

the overall renovation of virtually everything about the white House, turning it into Donald Trump's White House, the Donald J. Trump White House, is this is this enhancement. of virtually all security features at the same time? He's taking this plane, this insecure plane, to. He's traveling on this on this plane.

So, so, so clearly the main issues here are not security. What are they? And again, with Donald Trump, it is always the look. He wants to live in a fortress because he's the king and. and he wants to be on a plane that he feels worthy of him. But how is it worthy of him if it's not secure enough? I mean, surely he would want to fly in the world's most fortified plane, you know? And I have another thing, because I another point about this.

that I was, I was I was talking to some people so. he has the Qatari plane and all he does is complain about it. What do you mean? All all kinds of features are not right. The gold is not the right color. Gold. The seats are not comfortable enough. I mean, Donald Trump is fundamentally in everything he does, a complainer. Nothing is nothing is. is is right because it's not to his specifications.

And he's a needler and he's a blamed for. So that has been so the plane is better than the plane. that that comes with the with the job. But nevertheless it's not as good as he wants it to be and thinks it should be. Well that's interesting. So he's looking a gift horse in the mouth, I suppose, yes. The gold apparently is very disturbing to him because it's.

What? It's not gold. It's gold plated. It's the wrong shade of gold. It's just it's never gold. It's only ever the color of gold. And the color of gold is. He has a particular idea of what the color of gold is, and it often doesn't. And I suppose in this, in this instance, it doesn't match the gold. He was the gold that was painted on the plane when you said the Donald J.

Trump White House, I was surprised that he hasn't already. prepared that for the outside of the ballroom, the Donald J. Trump ballroom sort of written up there, and I dare say that will happen. They just haven't submitted that in the plans. Right. And there is no ball. There is no wall to put that on yet. But as soon as there will be a wall, there's only steel girders. Right. So but yeah, I without question and people within the white House.

and I kind of charted a kind of change of tone here. that in the beginning of this ballroom. adventure that was said somewhat sarcastically. Now it is not said sarcastically anymore, this the Donald J. Trump ballroom, and the assumption is it's going ahead. It will be finished. It will be the next president's worry to figure out what to do with it. And it will be forever. A physical representation of Donald.

Trump attached to the people's House. Yeah. No. And this is and again, this has become fundamental to him. And, you know, and there's a lot of I mean, I think part of the issue is, is he was remember he was thrown out of the white House once, and, you know, left it in, in disgrace. Well, it's it's going to be very hard to get rid of him now. because because his legacy will be will overwhelm the white House.

So one of the things that he's doing in this thing is just really kind of. crowding out the existing white House. and, and and so effectively de facto, it is a white House. will be a white House that he has built, and he's moving faster than the courts, which looks like he's going to try and do again with the triumphal arch, which is supposed to be starting, though they're supposed to be breaking ground in.

two weeks. Although three veterans on Friday brought a case against it, saying that it's disruptive to the idea. of Arlington Arlington Cemetery, obviously and disrespectful. And so that will now start wending its way through the courts. But if you were an I would imagine, I would. imagine that will have the same problems before the Supreme Court. as the recent ballroom suit was in the Supreme Court, the conservative. member said said about the plaintiffs, you don't have standing.

It doesn't it doesn't directly hurt you. And I would imagine that would be true about about about the veterans. Now, you might be if you are in Arlington. Cemetery, maybe, maybe that would give you better standing. And I mean, it's also possible that the white House ballroom gets built. He names it the Donald J. Trump Ballroom, and then whoever comes in after him just takes the name off, repurposes it,

and it becomes a useful space for something completely different. and the occasional state, you know that that is true, except for the fact that it will look like a Donald J. Trump building. I mean, it is not. It is not as though this is just an expansion of the white House, and it will always be there to say Donald Trump. It will always be garish, vulgar.

And when you look at it, it will it will say, it will scream, Donald Trump built me. And it is always part of, you know, you know, Donald Trump in a way, his long career is a. is a fight about taste, with him. declaring that his taste is better than good taste. There was a. nice piece in New York magazine, I think, this past, this past week.

in which someone has and someone has gotten an interview. with Donald Trump about with him talking. precisely about the ballroom. And, and he and he articulates his absolute. no, nothing, a view of taste. and architecture and, and his and his philosophy. of why all of why he is the master of all of these things.

Everybody else is wrong about about about taste, about proportion, about about anything that we might otherwise think is, is. a is is relevant to a fine building. And and this is his plan. to create a garish monstrosity. that we will always associate with Donald Trump. Yes. I think the piece in New York mag was by a guy called Ben Terrace.

And what's funny is, which actually rather a good name for someone who's writing about architecture, but he says that Trump keeps referring to the wrong kinds of columns, too. And he's like, these are Doric, when in fact they're Corinthian. But it was Donald Trump saying that. he knew more about marble, that it was going to have. the best marble floor in the world, because only he knows about marble. I mean, this this obsession that Trump has. about always being the smartest guy in the room.

And what a terrible burden. that is to feel that you must be that person. Well, when you can't possibly be that person. I wouldn't look at it like that. I would say it's the triumph of the dumbest man in the room. I mean, he is always the dumbest man in the room. because he knows nothing, doesn't want to know anything, walks out of the room when anyone tells him something. and and and yet has the confidence.

I mean, he's the president of the United States. This somehow worked work to keep. saying he's the smartest man in the room. Yeah, yeah, he says at one point in the New York Magazine. piece, when he's talking about marble, he says, I know. more about stone than anybody imaginable. And you're like, of course you don't. Of course you don't. Yeah, but it's sort of, well, you're right, I get that. It's the triumph of the dumbest man.

But does he not here somewhere in the back of his head, please, God, he hears the mocking voices when he says things like that. I mean, who says something like, I know more than anybody else in the world. I know more than anyone else imaginable who even thinks of something like that. It's so bizarre. Well, the guy who doesn't know. I mean, that's how if it's all compensation and it is all compensation. or compensation, how do you then then what he recognizes is.

go to the max here does don't try to be like everybody else. That's what makes you nervous. But and if you then redefine the terms of the smartest person. and redefine themselves against you being the smartest person, that's a, that's a, that's a. a supreme rhetorical trick. Well, it doesn't seem very smart to take a plane, even if you're taking it to your own golf course Dune bag in Ireland,

when you know that it's not secure. That said, why does it take Boeing 12 years. to come up with a new Air Force One? I mean, Trump ordered two new Air Force ones in 2017, and they've said. they won't be delivered before 2029, at which point he'll be out of office. So I slightly understand his desire to get his little hands, his short. fingered Bulgarian hands on on the freebie from Qatar,

which we know he's going to keep after his presidency. He's not going to actually park it in his library for the public to see. I don't know anything about building airplanes, but I do know that at one point. someone said to me, because I was possibly I was vaguely interested at some moment. in this, that building a, a, a plane, these kinds of these kinds of planes. at that kind of scale is like building.

a cathedral in the, in the 16th century. I don't know if that's true or not, but I remembered it well. Building a cathedral in the 16th century took 100 years. Exactly. So I'm. So you're saying it's speedy? They've sped it up. Yeah. I just can't believe they can't figure something out faster than 12 years. Well, both. Let me dare say both you and I know nothing about building an airplane. True. But I do know something about trying to deliver something on time.

You and I have both worked on deadlines. Why they can't. Why they can't do it faster than that makes. Well, it's. It's really odd. Also odd is the leaving of Fox News by Maria Bartiromo. Was she fired? Was she not fired? Her lawyer saying she absolutely wasn't fired. Everybody speculating that she was fired because she informed the white House. that Fox News had told people in the run up to the midterms. not to focus on Trump's claims that election fraud was wide scale.

What say you? I hadn't seen that about her lawyer. denying this, because I don't think that there's any issue here. She was she was told to get out of the building. Oh, that's because her lawyer is saying she still works for Fox. Well, I'm sure she still has a contract and they're still negotiating all that. But as far as I know, she's been. she's been taken off the air and that's it.

So I would say she's, she's. she's been fired and. defended. Defenestration. Defenestration, which is a Putin thing really, isn't it. Because defenestration, I think technically means you're thrown out of the window. Indeed. Well, let's hope Putin wasn't behind that. But but I don't really understand the trajectory of Maria. Bartiromo, because at one point she was a serious correspondent.

She was never a serious correspondent. She was she was the last thing she was was a serious correspondent. What she was is, is a significant figure in making business news, a significant part of the of the news business. And that happened in the 1990s when. when suddenly, I mean, money was everywhere. The tech was about to explode.

CEOs were kind of kind of the rock stars of the moment. And I mean, she was and she was hired at CNBC. I think she was a producer at CNN. And then and then she was hired at CNBC. in its early years when Roger Ailes, who would subsequently hire her at Fox, was then he he was the guy who started up CNBC, which or what was was.

then actually called America's talking, I believe, and America's talking. What a terrible title. America's talking. But she was I mean, you say she wasn't a serious correspondent. She was the first correspondent. to report from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. She won a couple of Emmy Awards. I mean, she and that is. Yeah. Well. Let's hold. Come on. We can go through the list of people who won Emmy Awards. This is a television award. It's this is just about awarded for being on television. So,

you know, I mean, I know, so I actually spent some time talking. I spent a lot of time talking to Roger Ailes about a lot of things. But I remember once he told me, because I asked him about about Maria, because she's famously stupid and and I asked her. why she famously stupid, famously, famously, you should talk to her sometime. It's like, oh my God. Just look at the vacancy in her eyes.

Extraordinary. And at any rate, Roger said. Said I said, why did you why? What's the Maria's story? Why did you hire her? And he said, because CEOs will want to fuck her. So that's Roger Ailes. in a nutshell that defines Roger Ailes meaning? Well, no, not literally that, but meaning that she had sex appeal, that she was attractive. She could talk about money. You say she wasn't smart, but she clearly had a television star power,

which is something of enormous value to someone like Roger Ailes. or any television network. Yeah, no, she wasn't called the money, honey for nothing. And she was more attractive than Lou Dobbs. She was called the Money honey for exactly the reason. that Roger defined there, which we will not repeat. That was. And and that was. Roger's a very smart television guy. He knew this. He knew that that would be that. That would have an appeal both to an audience and to the subject.

She was she was writing about. But the problem with, with Maria. Bartiromo is that she then became. much more enamored with the subjects that she was writing about. Then, with her journalistic position as covering these, these people. So she became, among other things, that she became famous for. She became famous for the the very easy interviews. So she became a kind of PR extension.

of of of. of CEOs, well of sort of access journalism. Yes, of access. efforts to if you wanted to enhance your, your reputation and your, your profile as a CEO, you got an interview, you let you agree to an interview with Maria and she would give you.

softball questions. and she would fawn over you and she would make you seem like a star. But if you if you're a CEO and you accept an invitation like that. How does that help your. how does that help your reputation or your leadership of the company? If everybody knows. that it's a softball interview and she's just an extension of the PR, I you know, I don't think that that matters. It's television. It's it's you go on television, you go on CNBC at that at that time.

And if you're a. CEO and, and one of the leading correspondence. on the network treats you as a star. Well, that that would make you a star. I actually I don't your question seems an odd one. You know how this works. You know this will accept that she becomes the star. She goes from being a reporter to.

actually better than the CEOs, the the echo system in that ecosystem. You're you're you're you become a greater star CEO. because you've been interviewed by a star journalist. Right. But the transition to that is what interests me. But but what was her relationship with Donald Trump and the white House? Because at some point she became really. a sort of informal spokesperson for them. Yeah. I mean, she's all I mean, the so the transition from from.

Remember she transitions from CNBC to then she goes to Fox business and. and and Fox News and. and that's really in a way a transition of the CEO. So she would have been incredibly friendly with Donald Trump and conducted. many interviews with Donald Trump when he was a business guy. And then so she transitioned then to when Donald Trump is now a political guy.

I mean, her politics, I assume her politics are, you know, business oriented politics, but it's really about Donald Trump. And then it was so, so making that transition to Fox News. And she had really kind of her her run at. CNBC was, was, you know, coming to. I mean, she was no longer getting the ratings that she had at CNBC.

So the the offer to go to. to Fox Business and Fox Business was just starting up at that point. And Fox News was an attractive one. And within the Fox ecosystem, there's only one. ratings king at Fox and that's Donald Trump. So she clearly understood that and then became, became close to and friendly with people in the white House.

And she's not the only person at Fox News who has done that. I mean, and. I mean, there is. so and then she kind of runs into into a difficulty. during the post. In the post 2020 election, when Fox Fox begins. to support Trump's. ridiculous accusations.

about about why he lost the election and and conspiracy. of of of the voting machine makers and I mean all kinds of baloney. Of course. And and that baloney then would cost Fox. almost $1 billion in a lawsuit against it. So these are the staging machines. Yes. So she took a lot of she took some of the heat on that. Other people took some of the heat. And I think that part of her leaving now.

And so in understanding that she leaves now because she supplied. some an internal memo to the white House. Now. people at Fox have been supplying. internal memos to the white House since 2017. Is this a is this a common thing at Fox News? Completely common. The Fox News and the white House have.

in so many instances work hand in hand. So I'm sure poor Maria is kind of shocked. that that she is the one who's being called on the carpet for this. And what does this signify? Does this signify that Fox understands that the Republicans are. or the president's got the worst poll ratings ever, and that he's likely to lose the House and possibly the Senate in November? It doesn't signify that at all.

What does this what is signifies? It's two things that they probably wanted to get rid of Maria anyway, and they have found a pretext for that. And and the other the other side of that. is a, you know, probably. There's there's. a slightly new management turn at Fox News, which is to say. that 95 year old Rupert Murdoch has,

has, you know, is is stepping back. I mean, he often steps back in, but mostly on a day to day basis. And his son is his son. Lachlan is running things and probably. Yeah. So so I mean, I think in that in that sense. you're, you're, you're right that, that there's probably some view that, I mean, let's, let's start to be a little careful about this.

Although I wouldn't, I wouldn't go heavy on that and I would go heavier on. They wanted to get rid of Maria. Was there a particular reason you think was she a ratings downer? Was she. They just had enough of her. Were CEOs saying, I don't want to come on and talk to Maria anymore? What do we what do we think? I assume it's a ratings thing. It's a Fox is ratings driven almost at every at every point. And I would also say, you know, honestly,

she's 60 years old now. And what. Lesley Stahl is 82, this is Fox News. Have you seen the people, the women on Fox News? Well, they all look the same. The women do. We have to. Yeah. They don't look like they're 60. That's the point, right? They don't look like they're 60. So you're saying you think. Maria Butler Emma was probably getting too old in the tooth for Fox News? Well, she can go to CBS.

She should join CBS. You know. Well, that's an interesting thing. Will there be a bleed in that direction? You know, I once. I was, as I say, I was very friendly with Roger Ailes, who for all his despicable, was an incredibly good source. And and we should just remind people, Roger Ailes started Fox News. He was a long term TV exec who Murdoch.

chose to start Fox News. And he said, I remember that he once he once said, if you come to work for Fox News, you can never go back to to the mainstream media. They'll never have you. Not true. In the case of David Rhodes, David Rhodes worked at Fox News, and then when his brother Ben Rhodes looked like he was going to become Obama's. one of Obama's close confidants, especially around foreign affairs,

David moved from Fox News to become a head of news at CBS. He was not on camera. Oh, okay. Not so. It's about the people on Tamra. If you're identified as as a Fox News person, then it is really hard to go back to traditional news. And Roger Ailes may have been proven right because do you remember the experiment. they did with Shepard Smith, who was a Fox anchor and went over to CNBC.

to create a new news, which actually I was quite. excited about it because it was 7:00, which seemed like a good time. for a quick news download. And it was supposed to be straight down the middle, and it didn't last at all. Nobody watched it. And they went back to reruns of Shark Tank. Yes, but it's interesting. I mean, the the Maria and the Maria Bartiromo Donald Trump relationship. has been a long one and a, you know, I think that they have they kind of.

they kind of genuinely bonded. I mean, I mean in, in, in, in the sense that they were. she was exactly the kind of interviewer that he liked. And her subject was, was his subject. I mean, he likes to talk about about. I mean, he believes that he is he is a. Well, the CEO he plays on The Apprentice.

is the character that he believes he is, and she helped cultivate that. She is actually one of the people responsible for the. the Donald Trump myth. Well, good luck to her then. Good luck to her. Michael and Melania has said she's not going to be going to the mini. RNC summit that they're hosting next week. Actually, are you going to be attending?

You know, I just I mean, I found that a kind of a bullshit story. because it kind of expressed surprise that she was not attending. this when she doesn't attend anything. Well, she attended the main RNC one, I mean, clearly to the great. Wait wait. wait wait wait, wait that she attended it only which and I have detailed this. in a way that it's like, come on. She she refused to speak at the.

she hadn't done anything for the entire two years of the campaign. She refused to speak at the RNC convention, the 2024 RNC convention. Nobody knew that she was going to show up until the last moment when she showed up. And then she refused to sit next to her husband in the VIP box. So I would say that that the expectation. that she would show up, that this.

non convention, mini convention or whatever they're there, they're calling it is, is some just profound misunderstanding. of what's been going on with, with, with her relationship to her husband, with with what her past practices. in terms of political campaigning and events. So I don't know what everybody's talking about here. Of course, she wouldn't show up.

Of course she wouldn't show up. And I always remember the RNC of when she does show up at his side, he just looked incredulous, incredulous that she was there, which I always savored that moment. But his cabinet are apparently under a three line whip to attend. Most of them will be there, including our friend Hedges. I want to go back. I want to stop. I just want to go back because I wanted to. Why would I think this was particularly I saw the Washington Post story. Why would they be.

treat this as though it were? What's the message here? They know the Washington Post knows that she isn't. going to show up, that if she did show up, that that would be the story. The story is not that she doesn't show up. What what point are they trying to make? Or and why wouldn't they say, well, she's obvious. She's obviously not going to show up because she never shows up. And and this is not only not a departure,

but just another indication of a broken marriage. Well, you asked me why the Washington Post didn't. I had no idea. I have no idea. I mean, why don't they? They understand what reality is. Why don't they express it? What's the thing? So we're trying to curry favor with the white House. We're trying not to say what we know. We're trying not to out. of some kind of discretion and courtesy.

We're trying to avoid this. The central fact in this story, I'm just, well, Washington Post, owned by Jeff. Bezos, Jeff Bezos, Amazon is behind her. movie Melania and behind her new series. Right, which is coming up soon. So perhaps they perhaps they'd like her to attend. so that she could promote her new show for them. I'm kind of gripped by what is going to be the content of her new show,

I must admit. But his cabinet will be attending. But it turns out that a lot of Republican are Republican. candidates are not going to be going because it's the furthest thing. they want to attend, given the problems they're facing in the midterms. Where is this convention taking place? Dallas. We should go. We should do a podcast from from Dallas, actually.

Honestly we should. Jesus. Do you think they would let us on the floor? I do not. Well, you know, who knows? Who knows? You know, inside, Trump. said they might want to come on a journey with this and say, Trump said, I'm sure. Well, let me put if we paid, if we paid well, we should find out how much it is. Someone, somewhere is making money from it. I heard that the that the Kennedy Center back to that old one they Trump.

Trump attended the has attended only one event at the Kennedy center. and and and you could sit beside him. There was a fee to sit beside him. and that fee which everybody. thought was going to the Kennedy Center was not. It went to directly to a Trump the Trump PAC, which is directly to Trump. So the 400 million, it was part of the 400 million sitting on which Republicans.

hope he's going to distribute to challenge candidates. But in fact, he's probably going to keep the Trump library. And that for that 400 million, by the way, is distinct from the 800 million. which he has solicited from from a full array of corporate donors. So all of this money does the 800 million. include money for the ballroom? No. So that's the other than the other.

So he's got 800 million, which has been raised. by his princess of darkness, Meghan O'Rourke. And then he's got 400 million. Then you have all the money. Yeah, all of the PAC money. So all of this money goes with him when he. when he departs the white House, when he returns to Mar-A-Lago, sets up what will invariably be a competing white House. That's what will that competing white House will be financed by this money.

And then he's he's made, what, 2 billion from crypto, 2.2 billion last year in the white House. So he the boy done good. He's he's helping himself. No, I think we should come back. We should come back to this in in in in a separate episode because I think. it's, it's something that isn't, hasn't quite been focused on that. The entire point of the second administration has been to,

to make as much money for Donald Trump as he possibly could. Okay. Well, that's a good subject for our Limerick writers. We've got a very good one from Paul Watson. 8809. There is a man. This is referring to our last conversation about Pete Heckler. There is a man called Push Up Pete who's purging the fighting elite, replacing real heroes with boot licking. zeros as ethics get tossed to the street.

Thought that was rather suitable for the Pentagon under Pete. And of course, headline today that 50 people in the Pentagon. have been required to take. lie detector tests to see if they are the ones that have been. leaking information that are. the Pentagon is running out of munitions. that they've been spreading word about. Seth's lack of competence. And.

Yeah. Go on. Well, I was going to say so the question is, is this. Hagens doing Trump's bidding war? Is this Hagar's panicking because. Because he thinks that that Trump is going to fire him. I took it as hedges panicking. I mean, a former general told. I think it was the times. They'd never seen anything like this on this scale. 50 people.

And of course, from the Secretary of Forever Wars. who put out classified war plans. One of the first things he ended up doing on signal leading to signal gate. with Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor of The Atlantic on the chain. I mean, the idea, the irony of it, the irony of it, Michael, this incompetence is just, you know, it's Olympian level incompetence. They should open a new sport specifically for Trumpian cabinet members.

But it's so hard to express this. We say Olympian level incompetence. And that doesn't remotely begin. to evoke a day by day breakdown of. of the entire management structure of the Pentagon, the United States Defense Department, the Pentagon, the military. industrial complex all breaking down. as we sit at the moment of of the world at a.

at a kind of a terrifying tipping point. Yeah. It's one of those moments that future school children. or being well, will learn about in the history books. I mean, it's literally things are stopped, are not working. There's no army secretary, there's no chief of staff to the Army secretary. It's a vacuum at the head of of the army. It beggars belief. Well, you know, push up Pete and Colonel Vodka.

We can just let's let's just just begin to listen the name Pete and. Well. And I think. Isn't he called no Tab Pete because he never had a tab on his arm. We had a piece today in the beast about it that he's got a new. is his nickname within military circles is no Tab Pete, because he didn't. have anything that he could put on his arm to show his his service. Poor Pete, he must just be crushed. I totally read it that he was panicking and and flexing and saying,

you know, anybody who leaks will be put under a lie detector test. Which made me wonder, could you pass a lie detector test? No, I couldn't, I, I really could not pass a lie detector test. I mean, if the Trump people and and of course, you know, that's that's. I mean, I mean, I've, I've there are variations of this in which. I've clearly worried about because,

you know, if asked if put in a position. Well, I'm never going to take a liar detector. So it doesn't make that that's not really germane. But but people leak to me. Meaning that you might be put under pressure to take a lie detector test. Well, I don't think I can be put under pressure, but but there is I mean, I think that there are a number of people who would be. I mean, I hope they they avoid taking a lie detector test.

Well, be interesting to see the results of the 50 people taking Lesa Texas test, it seems to me a very strange thing. to assume that a machine can tell that you're lying or not. Life. Well, they can. they're they're pretty good at it. Well, it's to do with your heart rate, right? I've always thought that they're the most bizarre things. Ally detector test. Also, people convince themselves they're telling the truth and believe. that they're telling the truth.

So can you get that through a lie detector test? I mean, can a sociopath pass one? Do you really want to have a conversation about lie detectors? Well, I'm curious about the fact that being, you know, wielded as a weapon in the Department of Forever Wars, as they have been for as they have been for about 70 years. But yeah, not at this level, not at this level. And with this degree of saying, no matter man already, this is actually that's that's not true.

I mean, lie detectors are used throughout the, the security agencies of the, of the US government. on a, on a, you know, on a constant and regular basis. I mean, almost, you know, both both within certainly. the FBI uses them on their own people often the National Security Agency, I mean, this is this is this is this is straightforward. the way the government I don't think 50 people being given one.

because the secretary of Forever was, is furious about. leaking about his department. I don't think 50 being well, these are people actually at a fairly high level. I think that's what's that's what's particularly notable about it. But then the the interesting thing is, is this Donald. Trump saying, saying, you know, I want to know who leaked. this is this is he storming around and demanding this,

or is Pete Hegseth worried. that he he has to find someone to blame? So this is. a kind of feeling to blame him for leading him into a war. that they can't figure out how to get out of. And again, you know, is he is he going to be fired? Is he running for president? And are those mutually exclusive or two of the same things I don't.

Well, something for everybody to contemplate over Labor Day weekend. We'll be back on Tuesday with more questions. about what an earth is going on inside Donald Trump's head. Well, Michael, have a very good rest of your Labor Day weekend. Big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passa, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many BBC tier members now.

There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.