Carville’s Shock Prediction on Trump’s Grim Future | The Daily Beast Podcast

He's going to quit. I think he's going to get up and walk out of it. He's going to lose so decisively in November. His power is going to just seep right out. People really don't care what he says anymore. Power is not a constant thing in the present. There are times when you have a lot of power. There are times when you don't have very much power. I tell people. April 15th my over-under date. He's too old. He's too fat. He's too stupid. He just. He just.

He can't do this. And he. And he’s not. So stupid that he won't recognize that this is outside of his skill set. I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast. Who better to talk to the day after the elections? With such a dramatic result in Michigan to than the "Ragin' Cajun". Himself, James Carville, the Democratic advisor. And guess what? We have a special guest appearance. from his wife, Mary Matalin, the Republican advisor.

You may remember that incredibly good movie. that was made about the two of them and how opposites attract. Anyway, I digress. Mary is on her way to see the eclipse. Yes, spoiler alert, but James is convinced that Donald Trump. is actually going to quit the presidency, that he has no idea how hard it's. going to be to govern with the Congress against him, and who are determined to hold him to account. So he lays out his scenario for what he thinks is going to happen.

in this period of approaching lame duckery. Before we get there, just a reminder. Please do subscribe to The Daily Beast. We are independent, which is why we can have the conversations we want to have. But we appreciate your support and you can become a Be Beast tier member. You can become a friend of the Beast. But we we do really count on your support. Okay. Enough pleading. Let's get into it with James Carville. And of course, he was the man that really created the sentence.

that has dominated all campaigns ever since. “It's the economy, stupid.”. But it turns out it might be other things, too. This time around. James Carville from his bed, where he is. recovering from surgery. Yes. Not a hangover from last night's election. Surgery. Well, let's get into it. James Carville, extremely good to see you, sir. Especially because I gather you’re recovering from surgery.

You're not just recovering from a hangover from last night's elections, but probably a little bit of both. But I just I had some sort of it went very well. and were covering very well, but for now I'm just going to kind of play it safe. Good. Well, it's thrilling to see you sitting up in bed. And I was going to start by asking you about the AI image that Donald Trump. posted of himself as a soldier. alongside General Patton and Douglas MacArthur.

But as we're recording this, the news just came through from Michigan. that Abdul al-Said has beaten Haley Stevens by 1%. So I wanted to get your reaction hot off the presses, as it were. Well, first of all, I want to talk about the MacArthur, Trump, the patent and MacArthur actually. worn wars truck lost this war. There's a difference between being a winner and a loser, right?

Controversial as both might have been. We did win World War two. We have lost the Iranian law. This is us. We done. We're trying to figure out who to surrender to. So that then make that distinction out of the thing. In terms of Michigan, I think things need to be kept in mind here. First of all, Michigan is very friendly territory in the middle of the country. toward what we would refer to as more progressive candidate,

if you remember our different candidates. Bernie Sanders beat Hillary pretty decisively in Michigan in 2016. Right. And I think George Wallace carried the Democratic vote in like 72. And so Alcide won by a point. in a pretty friendly electorate. Madame one got 50.5 in a pretty friendly electric.

in my ready to say this is a movement. that's sweeping across the country or sweeping across the Democratic Party. No. Not really. It's certainly got its followers and it here, but. it's not as impressive as is it looks when you have a bit closer. Do you think Abdel Al-Sadd can win the Senate seat for Michigan? I will say this. The result of the United States. Senate general election in Michigan in November of this year.

will have enormous impact on a 2028. presidential nominating process in 2028. It's a huge event. But say he wins by. And you have to also put what would be the expected margin. The Democrats are going to win a lot in 2026. That's pretty clear. I'm not saying that he's going to win or going to lose Michigan, but he starts out with a really strong.

institutional advantage, and that is going to be the day after his name. That's the strongest thing I have going for him. If he exceeds where it should be, vote. The progressives can come in. So you should nominate one of us. We've tried to tell you that the country has been belonging and waiting. for a real progressive to come up and look at how. you saw that in Michigan. However, if he does worse or loses,

then that would be a body blow, which would be very hard for them to sustain. So this November is one of the biggest events in the 2028 cycle. That's a really interesting way to look at it. All right. Let's come back to the Democrats. But let's I want to focus on. your point about the Americans are looking for someone to surrender to. What is your estimation. of what the war has cost America? I don't mean in dollars, but I mean in terms of.

allies and world status. You know, you'd have to. when you sit and calculate it all. I thought that in the New York Times yesterday, a report of an athlete's. Michael Crowley. Boy, it was really good. And it was really informative about Trump. and how the Iranians just perpetually frustrate him. And we started a war.

with some very clever people, and we paying the price of that. I don't think I don't think I ran. I think they don't care. I think that they'd like the position in. and it talks about they're going to get to strike. Well, the strike was open free of charge until Trump did this. Right. But it's so great accomplishment to say the the strikes back open.

It was wide open on New Year's Day of this year, chugging away and not having to pay anything. And so and look at what we've done. to our first of all our munitions supply is depleted. That's clear. That's been documented leak. So our munitions supply. is severely depleted. Our senior ranks in the military.

are so depleted that that Pete has just drummed out. General Donny, he is probably the finest soldier the 21st century. And now he's got a nominee for chief of staff. and all that the Republican senators are rebelling against. Yet that happened. I mean, the consequences here. And of course, we're right there. trying to test our soldiers for testosterone. And the Ukrainians are making drones. You know, the drone doesn't have any testosterone.

You know, they can do could blow your ass up. I mean, we're fighting. Well, what? We're so stuck. Yeah, we're stuck in Patton in MacArthur's time. That was good. That's a great metaphor. We're stuck. Stuck? We're stuck. This episode is sponsored by row. One thing that can keep people. from even looking into GLP one medications is assuming that automatically. going to cost of fortune, but that's not necessarily the case.

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To get started. on row beside effects of GLP one including Boxed Warning, go to aro. We appear to be. stuck with a man who's in his ninth decade, as I know you are, but a man that seems to be that seems to have no strategy, that one day we're going to bomb the hell out of Iran,

the next day we're not, because they ask us not to. He thinks everything's on the cusp of a deal, but there's no evidence of any deal. Meanwhile, Ice is, you know, Ice agents are increasing. their grip across the country. The economy is scary. People are looking at the prices at the pumps. What happens to Donald Trump's second administration, James, I said before, I'll say it again. He's going to quick. You think he's going to quit? I think he's going to get up and walk out of it in.

I'll be glad to assign. the reasoning behind me, saying, first of all, he's not being paid attention to right now. He's president. He's got a majority of his party controls the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court. They had to break every leg that could get to get his AG nomination through. The Iranians won't return his phone call. He's going to lose so.

decisively in November. And I'm one of the few people out of old enough to have been through this. If no idea how the world is going to change around him, his power is going to just seep right out. No one's going to even care. People really don't care what he says anymore. He one day we're going to bomb, the next day we're going to blow him off the face of the earth. The next day we're going to vaporize him and they pay it.

You know, they mock that he can't pass any. He no chance to pass him to say that? None. They don't care. His party in power is not a constant thing in a president. There are times. when you have a lot of power, at a time when you don't have very much power. The time of not having very much power has already started. It's going to accelerate in January, and it could be nothing.

but have hearings and dragging everybody in the world. before the Congress and all the money and all of that's coming to fruition. He is going to walk away. James, it's such an interesting theory. When do you think he's going to walk away? You know, I tell people April 15th is my back over on the date. But if that. can't tell you. Yeah, I'm just going to tell you he cannot. He has no idea what's coming for him. He has no idea how tough and how how difficult and how you delicate.

The maneuvering is that the Bill Clinton had to go through in 94, to some extent. President Obama had to go through it in 2010. He's not up to this. He's just he's too old. He's too fat. He's too stupid. He could he just he can't do this. And he and he and he's not so stupid. that he won't recognize that this is outside of his skill set. Well, a lot of things that he does or outside of his skill set,

but it doesn't stop him. But but he. But you're saying that he will recognize that his power is. essentially done, that he's a lame duck and he will quit? So then, James, what happens when he quits? So he goes back to Mar-A-Lago. He says, I've. can you just talk us through the scenario of how you think this this happens. So he calls in JD met. So JD, I. decided I got it was I am going to go back.

You're going to be the present. But your first act that I have right here, as soon as you sworn in, you're going to. sign a pardon point in me for everything imaginable because he can't take the risk. There is some doubt as to the. the gallery of a self-portrait is some that. he has to eradicate them. Doubt. There is no doubt that Vance would have. the power is present to pardon him. Not not not even if he were.

If I were to be wrong. and he were to serve his four year term, he would still resign two days before. To be sure he thought he got department. It was docked. He's not. That guy is not going to take any chance with this at all. And just to believe the contrary is just to be be an idiot. And what what. in particular is he pardoning himself for? What do you see as his most egregious illegal behaviors?

You got a week. You did this Wall Street. Journal story that ran, I think it was last Saturday. That was the piece about Meredith O'Rourke, the super fundraiser who raised a 100 million. Yes, that the boss wants his money. And it would sit there, people that he talked to and he said, get a million from get 5 million. And I did this for him.

What is more. I, I, you know, legal. What is more unethical than charging. being president of the United States and charging people for an official deal? I don't know, I read to start their name names. They came quotes that wasn't oh, they would strike out. you pay if you want to play, you pay. So it was extortion basically.

Of course it was. That's a nice it's a pretty little teenage daughter. You got to be terrible. Something happened to her, wouldn't it? That is alarming. So. So, James, when assuming you're right. and the Democrats do take the House and perhaps they take the Senate, who knows in November. What what do you what are you hearing about what their priorities. will be in terms of holding Donald Trump. and his current cabinet to account?

Well, I mean, there. that problem is a little bit like a mosquito in a nudist colony. So many potential landed spots and you got to pick one. and, well, it's going to be some form of financial scumbag, which one. they focus on if it's foundation, if it's the ballroom, if it's I, there's only about ten, 15 different places you can look, but I suspect are going to have to hone in on the fattest button and nudist camp.

And just. in a lot of, a lot of stars, there's a lot of choices, there's a lot of choices. And do you think that becomes a popular election campaign promise, or do you think people are just like, you know what, it's politics. Let's move on. All politicians are corrupt. I just want my prices to go down. That is that is something that I hear.

And if you think about it, that's about the dumbest thing that you can say. that somehow or another, I will trade some level of corruption. and for some. level of economic stability, of predictability. is if a system. based on corruption can sustain itself, is if that system is going to be able to deliver you anything. like economic stability or predictability over time is utterly insane.

It it's always really, you know, people it look. They all do it. Come on, James, what are you talking about? You think it just all started with Trump? Yeah, they all do it. Everybody speech. everybody from time to time is run the stop sign. Okay. So that means that we shouldn't enforce,

say, a school zone of a person. blow of 4.0 drunk driving 100 miles an hour. The answer it felt to it. Come on. And people speed. Maybe people have a little one too many drinks. And that's what you're talking about. When you lose the ability. to be outraged. at what is going out in front of. you under some guys, that this is necessary.

to grease the functions of government to give you your. 3% raise every year. It's really it's it's really a dumb way. to look at the world, really a dumb way. I'm not saying a lot of people don't do it, and I'm not saying it talks. Oh, we shouldn't talk about that. That's going to look back. Let's look forward. Let's talk about your future, your life. You know what? Airplane crashes. You know what no one ever says.

Let's all look back. Let's just look forward. No, let's look back. Right. I want to know what happened. Right? Yep, yep. Yeah. Part. If your dentist said. I've never pulled a tooth before, but I've always wanted to try, you'd probably get out of that chair pretty quickly. Because when something really matters, experience isn't a bonus. It's the whole point. That's why so many people turn to Morgan and Morgan,

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Given the strength of feeling around the fact. that the Democrats may win bigly in November. What are the scams or the confusions. you think that Donald Trump can create around the voting process? You've mentioned that, you know, he's he's fed up. He can't get his Save act passed. Do you think he can? So enough doubt around the November election that people don't believe. the results of Allied.

Oh, boy. First of all, in his mind, he only has to convince about a third of. last. Secondly, they're going to try everything. Remember in 2020. They were telling people to vote. at the wrong voting place and the voting on the wrong day. And it's everything else. And they could. My mind is not creative enough to think of all the ways.

that they're going to try to fool with the election. The only thing I'd say it's encouraging is we all fall. Warned that he does not have the element of surprise. The end when you take away the element of surprise. That's a good point. Away a lot. You take away a lot. So we don't know what he's going to do. But whatever it is, it's not going to surprise us. And we're now. Can you believe that son of a bitch just said that? Yes, I do believe that son of a bitch that just did that. Honestly, you were stupid if you didn't believe it yourself.

But, James, we need to post you outside every polling station in America, I think. Or perhaps there should be videos of you saying that. Oh, you scare them all off. Scare them all off. All right, so let's talk about the Democrats. Are the Democrats. I mean, I was talking to a former governor the other day who said the. the Democrats are in the middle of a civil war. Are they in the middle of a civil war? Well, okay.

Let's start with obviously in the city, doctor question, I'm going to answer the question. The Democrats are perpetual civil war because the Democratic Party. is a coalition. So if you're in a coalition, by definition something is going to make you uncomfortable. And it's a rotating thing. So in there is a, a, a. there, there are two pretty. distinct visions of the Democratic Party.

People like myself says we're the single most successful governing party. in the entire Western world in the last 125 years, which is true, and it's not even debatable, particularly if you go back and you say that. Teddy Roosevelt was, oh, technically not a Democrat. He was clearly through the Senate. You take all of that. You look at what this the leader of this part of accomplished. There's no equal anywhere in the world.

Not close. And in that requires holding a coalition to that. The other side says that they're all part of the same corrupt deal. There's no difference between the two. The corporatist Democrats are the same thing as the Trump Republicans in. The only way to defeat this is to make a definitive statement. about who we are, where we are to stop in history, and we have to reject everything that came before. That's that's star giving and.

It seems a lot of young people. buying into the Soviet. that it's all a corrupt duopoly. It's Coke and Pepsi. It no one party is any more or less successful or corrupt. Another party. I think that's a totally idiotic viewer history. But that's your view of history.

It's really idiotic. It doesn't make any more sense than. creationism. It's about that. That's a intellectually valid. But crap is. But the people make it. So how does the party move on then? I mean, one of the things I hear from people all the time is that. there's no national leadership, and in fact, into that void appears. to have stepped a very robust 84 year old Bernie Sanders, who I know. has been around obviously for some time, but is somehow.

more relevant now than he has been before. It. Does someone emerge before November. as a sort of as a national leader, or do they have to thrash it out in November? Okay, so we try to be as gentle as I can. A political party does not have a leader until it has a presidential nominee. You're asking you a lot of people who consider. themselves influential that decided that they want to pick who to lead.

A Democratic party is. no. The people that are going to pick. deleted hypocritical are people who actually vote in its primaries. I know we'd all like to talk about them, but they actually do. And you can't have a leader of a coalition like this. that is is is diverse and at some level as dysfunctional as our coalition is right. now, unless we have a nominee. who can articulate what it means.

to be a Democrat and give definition to what the party is. But right now, anybody that tries to do that. is on a fool's errand because you don't have that power. And we can't just. we can't just all get together and huddle up and say, okay, this is our leader. Let's let's see. Good. RA ra, let's go get them. What do you think we should do? No, it doesn't work like that. And it can't work like that. And it shouldn't work like that.

It. You never hear people say, well, you know, it's really going to decide. This is actually people who vote in the Democratic primaries. It's not going to be decided by somebody in the back thing. It's not going to be decided in the movement, you know, movement, progressives or it's not going to be it's going to be decided by. But probably if I have my way and I think probably well, in large. but Democrats in South Carolina. Interesting. So you think Democrats in South Carolina will end up deciding who. who the next president?

Well, they have in in the last, I don't know, seven cycles. And I think they they choose very wisely. And the way I do stand the calendar, they're still going. to be highly influential in this cycle, as they very well should be most important. voting constituency in the Democratic Party by by bar. none by far a box and they're not very into. these other issues.

Let's just say that, well, Adelphi is part of a larger oppressed class or whatever it is. Right. So so the voters in New Hampshire are not going to be very happy about that. What is New Hampshire, then? That decisive. Anyway? South Carolina picked Obama that kind of picked by after. the South Carolina George was picked Clinton. Yeah, I mean get over it. Your Hampshire hadn't had much slice for a long time now.

It's a good place. I'll go with journalists and consultants and get drunk at the Wayfarer together, but that's fine. Okay. All right. So. So South Carolina becomes the pinnacle moment. What do you think of. Well, well, who are you most excited about? If you were going to have a kind of primary line, in fact. Well, I got to see what. I think we're going to have unbelievably counted people.

I think I do not predict elections. That is not what I do. I no good at it. I, I wouldn't be could ask somebody off the street. but have just as much insight as to who's going to win as I would. I don't try to, but I think if you take the talent that I see. in the party and my advice to everybody is, for God. sakes, run, run, get that. But when I see when you see it, you know, if so,

I guess it was just as Stewart or something says. I can't define pornography, but I know it when you see. Right, right. Okay. I can't define what really great political skills are, but when I see it, I'll kind of know and I'm looking for it. Well, I think you saw it a little bit with Abdul, al said as a guy, well, he's talented and he got 50.1%. Right. Understand, understand.

what happened in completely. in comprehensive digesting this, it's going to be decided by Democratic voters. in 2028 okay. All right. So talk me through what's happening with Mitch McConnell. Are you as concerned as we are. that Mitch McConnell has not been seen for 52 days at this point? Yeah. Look, I'm going to be 82 in October. 84 years old.

I have no idea. I read a really dope. Yeah, I think it's kind of. no everybody understands would be an 84 is. And for whatever reason, I. can't wait to read the real story when it comes out. But it just seems. I remember when I was in politics and I think it was 1991, Quentin Burdick was a senator from North Dakota. He was, in fact, I don't know, hollow.

I think he was still alive. Yeah, he was still alive of years, wasn't it? I don't get it. Was a long time. I can't remember, I remember it's not that good. And we're going to find out what the truth is. But, you know, Mr. Connell was the person who owned its own. Decided the Supreme Court would have eight members. None? None. He just passed the constitutional amendment in his head. And I guess I don't know the answer,

but it's something that's obviously something right here. I can tell you that. What precisely it is, I don't know, but at the end it's weird. Why don't you just tell us? Because I guess they got a call, an election by August to something. or another. I mean, you manipulating elections on your deathbed. I don't know, but we'll see. Yeah. Do you? How do you think the governor of Kentucky, Andy Beshear,

who may well be a candidate for 2028, how do you think he's handling it? Do you think he should be putting a bit more pressure on the senator? Well, I think he's doing what the governor. He said I represent the Commonwealth of Kentucky. We don't have a United States senator right now. I have an obligation to appoint to assess. I'm not getting straight answers. I actually have a reason, multiple reasons, that I want to know this. I think he's.

Perfectly. But I would say that because of it, Andy handles most everything perfectly. Okay, well, Mitch. McConnell, do you think he's in a vegetative state at this point? I don't know, I have no idea. Okay, I know I got one. I actually know more about who's going to win the election. under Mitch McConnell's health. And I don't know anything about who's going the election. James, I haven't asked you about Max Miller yet.

The congressman, you know, accused of rape, all sorts of unpleasant things that have surfaced. in his divorce battle with his wife, who is or ex-wife, who's the daughter of the senior senator from Ohio, Bernie Marino. What is your thought? You've dealt with many a sex scandal in your time. What? What was your impression of Max Miller? Two things I'd pick up much more on. He's really got severe mental issues.

In in or or both. He's a real massages like. I mean, real like, not in a very real sense. And I feel kind of feel sorry for Senator Brian. Don't mean it just his daughter. But, you know, that's not an uncommon thing in the United States. I mean, not everybody is the daughter of a United States senator or. the Max member of Congress,

but for that, they are diseases of women that are in. these really, really abusive relationships. And I mean, thank God is from his father, is a person of considerable means. And so she's not. You know, she's just not. she has some options, but it's good to reflect it. There's a lot of women that are in similar position that do not have the option. of having your daddy very United States, and I feel for her.

I feel for Randolph. Would I know if I had to go through something I dealt with my daughters, I. would be just completely distraught. that children I mean, it's a tragic story. And the the guy just said. if he had any kind of humanity. I mean, he said, look, I'm just out of here. I'm sorry. I'm going to go leave my own life. I'm gonna go into rehab. The date, the way sky is built, doctor, where he's built. Well, and what do you think? Also the fact that the president called him and according.

to the congressman, just said, look, this is going to be a tough race for you. And the congressman said, well, sir, you know, you're a perfect example. I'm following your example. You, you know, you were up against it the first time you ran. and you vanquished your enemies. So what was interesting is Trump called him. He didn't see anything wrong with the actual behavior. He just said that the reaction is not good. Said, man, why would you do this to your own fight?

But why would you do this? Your own children, you know, sends Marino was a friend of mine. You know, you couldn't. There was no element of any humanity. So Trump called him. because he thought it would make him look good that he weighed in at. This is having an effect on he's getting between, you know, your ability to kiss my butt. And I don't like that. this is interfered with it, so maybe somebody else should take it. If Trump was not an old displeased by any of this behavior, my guess is is that he was fine with it.

Well, and the behavior that he was displeased with was Jeanine. Pirro saying that it was actually poor contracting work. that led to the algae in the reflecting pool, and that the Olympian kayaker Davey Hearn, who was arrested for supposedly. damaging the reflecting pool, that, in fact was nonsense. And she you know, Trump is now saying that she choked, that she,

you know, she failed him. What is your why is he so obsessed by the reflecting pool? And why can't he accept the truth on this? His own, his own US attorney in DC has said what happened. It's very easy. Your explanation? I could lie to you all. I didn't mouth. You can't do anything to be. There's no statute. There's no anything. However, if you are in a court.

and you lie, well, that's your ass. And of course they investigate. They knew. And so you understand that if this guy was to be charged, he would have access to any. and all exculpatory material against him. That would mean all of the reports of what happened. would have to be turned over to his lawyers. And of course, the judge would find that to be relevant. and admissible in the government's case would blow up.

So she says the prosecutors go to her and say, man, if we do this go bad, we're going to look stupid. We're going to get sanctioned by the judge. And so she said, I don't have any evidence, so I didn't do it. Well, Trump can say what he wants because no judge is going. to sanction him in Doug Barkham or just lying through the ass. so that that's that's the difference in politics. You get to lie you want.

and but in the court, yeah, they get mad. They get upset. in in the truth in this instance is very easy to ascertain. It's not hidden under anything. It's right there to even know what happened. And he in his mind, if he can just sell enough doubt, that'll be fine. So Sean Hannity agrees with him.

and he's moving out the. you make a great point that that politicians can lie. and this particular president lies frequently. Why is it that there are laws for everybody else? I can't, you know, get up and lie in front of our workforce. If you're a CEO of a company, lie. If I say the dog ate my homework. and it's not illegal, it's preposterous.

But you can lie. You mean you're not? If you live to be in place, they can know that you're a lie in this. You can affect your relationship with them. That could work for you. Then I can perform. They are consequences to lie. Legality is not one of them. Unless you're in a court, there's no legal consequence, nor should they be. for me. Just so if I if I tell you that you know I happen to know the earth is flat.

There's a lot of stupid. It's ignorant, it's short sighted, it's demonstratively improved. Where wrong. But what it is not. It is not illegal. But, James, in other countries, I mean in Germany and Brazil. I mean, in all sorts of places. They've actually made it. They've brought in laws to stop politicians from lying. Do you think it's time America had some sort of law? Oh, no. No. Why? Because it's not impossible to decide what a lie it.

So in order for something, you have to be at adjudicator to say this is a lie. It is. You say the economy grew fast and the third quarter of 2025. They grew in any third quarter since. 1998. Is that a lie? Probably. You got to go back and say, well, what about intent? Did he intend to lie? Did he know that? That's insane.

Once you start doing that. and then you got then somebody got a adjudicate with the lie is. And how big of a lie it was. It was it it explainable. Why was it a justifiable line? Let hopefully voters. profile 30. Excuse me. Come in. Hey, I'm just finishing up. Come on. All right. My wife just walked in. Oh. Mary. Say hi. Can. Can Mary say hi to us? Hey, Joanna. Hey, Mary. How nice to see you.

This is fantastic. We've got the two of you together. Guess where I'm leaving for today. Where are my husband? Well, where are you leaving for? Who are you leaving for? I'm going to Iceland for the eclipse. Because I'm an eclipse nerd and my husband is sadly recovering. But I'm going to take lots of pictures. Mary, have a fantastic trip. Have a fantastic trip. All right, well, listen, James, we wish you well on your recovery from your surgery. I, I'm assuming your doctor would be very pleased with your progress this morning.

Thank you, thank you. All right. Thank you for joining us. Eva. I do think it's an interesting scenario, don't you? That the president quits, hands the reins to JD Vance, and then insists that he is pardoned by JD Vance. because if he pardons himself, it might not be legally valid. And then I suppose he retreats.

Tamar a Lago, a scenario which Michael Wolff has painted, where he sort of. sets up an alternative administration. from the patio with his $800 million that Meredith O'Rourke, the Princess of Darkness as he calls a, has managed. to shake out of companies across the country. What a world. Well, right. And tell us what you think. And will be back tomorrow with inside Trump's head. What is going on in there while Michael Wolff will illuminate it for us.

Thank you for joining us. If you have been. And big thanks to Brian Murray, John. Romero, Rachel Paso, Heather Pesaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many beast tier members now. There are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.