Steve Albini's "Conditions" For Becoming Nirvana's Producer | Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend

were you guys because I know Kurt was. very vocal about thinking that never. mind yes huge hit but he thought the. production was too slick and that is. something that he said at the time he. may have changed his mind about that. later on had he lived it it must have. been like 1989 1990 and we were cruising. in this van and I think we were. listening to Sur for Rosa and then and. Kurt was sitting there in the chair and. he raises his finger and makes a decree.

he goes this shall be our snare. sound and so that's that's Surfer Roa. the Pixies the pixie suros yeah so. that's yours truly and then he and then. that's the there you go that we ended up. in working with Steve so that's well. this is you know what I think I think as. you were talking earlier about um. feeling. uncomfortable uh with this new world of. Nirvana of Fame and stuff like that and.

um I think that when things did. become huge that um we all sort of kind. of retreated and sort of clung to the. things that we felt most attached to um. whether it. was weird old cars or going back to. Virginia or uh whatever it may have been. for Kurt but always musically I think. that.

um whether it was Kurt feeling like. never mind may have been over to prod. too over produced or something um we had. always um listened to records that Steve. had made I remember when I first moved. in with Kurt I think he only had like. four records it was like well he he had. a mark Lanigan record uh there was. Surfer Rosa there was the Breeders pod. and the Jesus Lizard record and that was. just the sound that we felt most um that.

we loved and I think we had probably. wanted to work with Steve before we made. never mind but we wound up making it. with Butch um who it should be. said but Butch Butch fig as the producer. on never mind uh and. and you know what you're bringing up is. that kind of in the background all along. there was this sound that that Steve. Albini was getting with the Pixies with. the Breeders that spoke to you guys and.

so my question for for you guys is what. is that sound okay it's the snare is it. is it the recording of the drums or is. it something bigger than that I think. it's it's the collective sound of all of. those. things. um uh where not one seems to be kind of. in front of the other it's almost like. it's to me it always sounds really. centered where it's like the vocal isn't. jumping ahead of everything else or um.

or uh things are like riding up and down. it sounds like the sound of a group in a. in a space um and really just natural. you know I mean I think who was it that. talked about distance in. recording yeah but like how dips. distance kind of yeah I. am and so if you listen to a lot of the. sounds with Steve stuff there is sort of.

this sense of distance in a way that. gives the sound more depth that's what I. think and it and and correct me if I'm. wrong but but Steve it felt like your. what you were going for and what you. were about was you wanted the band to. sound like the band you wanted them to. sound like this is how they sound when. they're in a room and they're together. and something real is happening you want. it you don't want all that separation. you don't want double tracking you don't.

want a lot of faler and nonsense well. there is a I mean there's seems to be. set setting up as a kind of a compare. and contrast between me and Butch Vig. and I I should point out that Butch. vig's production aesthetic and his like. approach as an engineer was like formed. in precisely the same way that mine was. doing budget records for dead broke. bands uh in a short amount of time like. trying to be as efficient as possible. with with not just with the time but.

with the materials and like you know you. you're hitting your snare drum head so. hard we're GNA have to buy a new snare. drum head you know so like uh let me let. me put some gaffer on there or something. to keep so that we don't split the snare. drum head that like his aesthetic and. his techniques are very much in the same. school as mine I have a ton of respect. for Butch he and I I felt a kind of. friendly competition with him before he. started making big famous records before. he made records with bands like Nirvana.

he and I were making records with a lot. of the same bands like Kindred bands. they would do one record with me and one. record with butch or like you know uh. like he would do a kilder record and a. decen record and then I would do a. kilder record and a deiton record like. that it was like the same clientele the. same peer group the same circles um and. what the thing that I remember most. about the Nirvana Butch connection is.

that when we got to the studio to start. work. on um the inudo album Kurt had a. cassette of the rough mix that Butch had. given him of the nevermind sessions it. wasn't the finished album that was in. the stores it was the cassette of of the. tracks that Butch had done without any. like fanciful mixing without any like. yeah just like these are the track s and.

he played that to get familiar with the. sound of the studio he played it through. the speakers and I thought it sounded. fantastic do you guys know what. I'm do you remember that no I thought it. sounded great and I don't. remember forgive me I don't remember. hearing the the nevermind album and. thinking this sounds great it. didn't bring to mind any of the records. that Butch had done that I was familiar. with that were the records that made his. reputation and probably made Nirvana. want to work with him in the first place. so to to be fair to just go back to that.

time we've you know never mind is out. they're they're the biggest band in the. world they're looking to make their. follow-up album um at that time what did. you were you a fan were you a fan of. Nirvana I wasn't super familiar with. Nirvana I had heard like the ubiquitous. stuff that everyone that was being. played on the radio and all the clubs. and like every gig you would go to as. you were loading in the sound guy would. put never mind on to crank the PA and. balance the PA so I had heard the album.

many times sort of secondhand right I. wasn't a student of Nirvana I was. familiar with their circle like all the. other bands in Seattle that they were. like you know Compadres with like the. Melvin and the mud honey and all those. other bands I like I knew those bands. and I was familiar with the sound but I. couldn't admit to being a fan I became a. fan of Nirvana through the process of. working with them and seeing them in. action firsthand because I'd never seen. them play live if I had ever seen him. live I'm certain I would have become a.

fan you know what's amazing is so the. decision is made we would like Steve. Albini to produce this record and most. people I think anyone else on the planet. in that position would have said please. please please please please and you. write this letter when you find out that. they're interested and this letter is. not a please hire me letter it's a great. letter so but it is it is a it is.

a I'll do it but here are my conditions. letter which is really which is imp. first of all this is sounds like that. ethereum thing a little bit it is I mean. it really is a uh um it is a it's a bit. of a screed about what you believe and I. will do this if you do it on my terms. and if you're willing to do it and then. you shockingly say I'm not taking points. on this record I I don't want to do that.

you Saidi want to be paid like a plumber. just give me some money up front but you. thought it was immoral to get points in. the record yeah I mean I the the the way. that record producers and recording. people are compensated in at that time. in particular was a trick of accounting. that shifted the cost away from the. label and toward the band made the band. ultimately responsible for whatever the. producer got paid and and it didn't come.

out of the general proceeds of the. record the way it would in an. independent labels contract for example. it came specifically out of the money. that would otherwise have gone to the. band like literally every dollar I would. get paid would mean that was a dollar. that Dave didn't get or Chris didn't get. or Kurt didn't get I mean that's just. the way the that's the way the. accounting works in those kinds of deals. and I've I think that's ethically. untenable I don't I and I I'll admit. that I think less of people who opt to. do things that way I think it's I think.

it's on its face it's absurd like I work. on a record for a few days and then for. the rest of your life you have. to keep paying me like you get me a give. me a chip off of every nickel that you. earn like you to talk to my agent and my. manager if you would if you could. convert them to that. view.