Judd Apatow (FULL EPISODE) | Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend

Hi, my name is Judd Apatow and I feel. >> [music]. >> very needy about being Conan O'Brien's. friend. >> [music]. >> Hey, Conan O'Brien here. >> [laughter]. >> Listening to the highly unedited, just. off-the-cuff Conan O'Brien Needs a. Friend. We never stop and start again. >> definitely not a restart. >> No, not at all. >> Sona, how are you? You're doing good? >> I'm great. >> And get it right or we're going to have. to do it over again.

>> great. Thank you. And uh how are you, Matt Gourley? >> I'm good, thanks. What's on your mind? I. have something off-the-cuff we haven't. talked about this at all. >> you there. You don't have to cut me off. and say, "Hey, I've got something." I. was going to get you there with, "Hey, what's on your mind?". >> [laughter]. >> On a recent episode we talked about. having a listener in high school that. was listening during high school and and. then Adam had mentioned that he knew. someone that was in seventh grade, Giles, that listened. But we now have. beat that record. A friend of mine, Jeremy Connor, has a son named George. who loves the show and is eight, started. when he was eight, is nine years old.

now, and listens to the show and would. love an autograph. Would you mind. signing this poster for. >> that. >> You have to. No. He's I WANT SOME. SCRATCH. >> [laughter]. >> I WANT MY PAY DAY. HE'S NINE, but he. listens started listening when he was. >> when the real cynicism kicks in. >> [laughter]. >> But this is uh for you, George. Thanks. for listening. Um yeah, of course. This. is so nice. I love that I'm doing this. There's nothing more exciting to listen. to a guy sign something. >> Scribbly. Um You can watch it on. YouTube. What's that? You can watch it.

on YouTube. >> Yeah, okay. Squeak, squeak, squeak. It's. also very fascinating to watch someone. sign a poster. >> [laughter]. >> And to hear someone comment on someone. signing a poster. >> [laughter]. >> Um well, there we go. Yeah, that was. good use of our time. Um listen, I don't. understand how a nine-year-old. what would they connect to? We don't. have any listeners over 14. Oh. That's. not true. >> [laughter]. >> Okay. That's not true. I have I can beat. all of this. There's a woman who is. seven months pregnant.

and her child's been listening in utero. Oh, okay. >> podcast and hates it. >> [laughter]. >> Loathes it. Kicks a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. Kicks a lot when. >> I I'm. we're in the I'm just trying to imagine. My friend Jeremy was saying that when. this podcast gets edgy, it still has a. kind of innocence at its heart and he. felt that that was okay for the child. I think maybe that's it. >> But that might have been negated by the. recent deez nuts milked them episode.

>> do a lot of You know what? >> you can appreciate that on two levels. Yeah. I used to watch the original. Batman series with Adam West and just. appreciate it on the crime fighting. I didn't I didn't when they were making. jokes about, you know, politics and. things like that, I didn't pick up on. any of it. I just loved and then years. later I got all the great dry humor and. great references. I picked up on that. much later. I think that's how people. listen to our podcast. You can listen to. it on this very friendly crime fighting.

uh level and then there's all the. nuances that we pack in here. What. you're saying is people should do a. re-listen to find the onion layers. >> and they should listen to all the new. ads. uh that we place in there cuz there's. dynamic ad insertion. Oh, talk on that. Tell me more about that process. Okay, you know what? This is really technical. This is an idea I had. A lot of people. think I don't really know how podcasts. work, but my idea a while ago was, "Hey, we should have dynamic ad insertion.". >> that exactly? >> Well, it's when you have a dynamic. insertion of a forementioned.

>> [laughter]. >> Just. kind of expand on that a little bit. >> there's something that doesn't have an. ad in it and if it does have an ad, it's. kind of flaccid and not moving. So I. think, "Well, it should be moving or. dynamic and it should be inserted, so. it's inside.". >> And that's how you explain this to the. people that put it into into process. Yeah. I called up some audio whizzes. Adam, jump in here for a second. Aren't. I correct? No, don't jump in here. I'd. like to hear you keep going, actually. I.

I'm actually still reeling from the fact. that you said dynamic ad insertion just. off [laughter] the top of your head. I'm. I'm impressed. >> When you put the chip in. When you put the SiriusXM chip into my. head, uh that was one of the words that. was readily available. It's a dynamic ad. insertion. It means. >> Yeah. Listen, if you can't handle what. I'm saying or you can't understand it, don't attack me. >> Yeah. I'm telling you in a very. authoritative way that I had an idea. about two and a half years ago that ads. could be inserted dynamically. >> Close to 10 years, probably. No, not the.

way that we're doing it. My idea was. that it could be What's a good word for. um constantly changing, always in. motion, dynamic. >> Okay. And that it could be put into. something which would be, I don't know, inserted and that you could use it on an. ad. I started that idea. Remember this? Like it was yesterday. >> I called you in and I said, "I've got. three words to say to you, dynamic ad. insertion." You freaked out and then you. left the room and then the next thing. you know, we were doing dynamic ad.

insertion. >> We were the first to do it. I I do. apologize cuz you've clearly. demonstrated your knowledge on this. subject. It is a way that people can. have their ads dynamically inserted and. it is one of the reasons that I think. I mean this podcast used to make about I. think it was $300 a year. Yeah. But. after dynamic ad insertion, we now make. more than the gross national product of. many countries throughout the world. including Switzerland. >> Mhm. um and countries that border.

Switzerland. Yeah. I was still just I. can't believe that you even know that. you even think about dynamic ad. insertion and and you actually. understand how it works. It's amazing. >> I've never seen Adam so excited. He's really [laughter] happy. He's. really happy. I am. I remember the day I came in and I said, "If we're using microphones, I want them. to be Shure microphones.". >> [laughter]. >> Remember that? >> just take some time. >> checked it. What are you talking about? Also, it's here, too. Yeah. Um yeah, I. yeah. You said that. I remember you. saying that.

>> that What was the What was the model. though? Yeah, Shure model. What's interesting, what I wanted was I. wanted it to be in this shape. Uh. remember that? And I drew the shape for. you. And do these mics need a preamp or. no? Well, I said as long as it's an SM7. uh B. or eight. I don't have my glasses on. It's a B. What's that? >> It's a B. Well, I said B or A. >> Right, right. Cuz the eights are fine, but you really want the B. And so once I. knew that we had the Shure and that it.

was an A and not a B, I was like, "We. are ready to go and we should have. dynamic ad insertion." And what I've. done is I've created many platforms and. these are trilingual, quadrilingual, quadrilateral. We have achieved a new. level. >> These are actually dynamic microphones. as [clears throat] well, so dynamic. And. I've had this mic inserted. Excuse me. Excuse me. >> And it's made in Mexico. And you know. what? We just lost our eight-year-old. viewer. >> [laughter]. >> Parents took the Oh, you think we just. lost them now? I think they tuned out a. minute ago.

>> [laughter]. >> I don't think so. When you said dynamic. ad insertion. >> No, if this kid's had a lot of chocolate. milk, he's revving. You were kind of. sexualizing it, too, a little bit. Well, that's the thing I was commenting on. >> George. I apologize, Jeremy, Giles. I. don't think children should be listening. to this. I don't know. >> think anybody should be listening to. this. You know what? >> agree on something. I watched Pulp. Fiction when I was 12 in the theaters. [snorts] with my parents. >> I watched the movie 10 when I was about. six or seven. What? >> Yeah. I know. Can you Oh, yeah. But I.

learned a lot. >> [laughter]. >> Oh my god. Oh, Bo Derek. Running on the beach. Pure cinema. >> movie 9 1/2 Weeks? >> Do I remember it? >> that when I was 47 years old. >> [laughter]. >> Still a little early for you. Oh, I. didn't know what was happening. Why are. they LYING TOGETHER? WHAT'S HAPPENING? AND MY wife was like, you know, she was busy with the kids and. she was like, "No, they're Let me. explain." [laughter] WHY ARE THEY IN BED. MOVING? Why is their nap so wet?

>> [laughter]. >> Uh why did you do that for? You always. go too far. >> think I did. YOU KNOW THE ONE THING. about going towards the line? You just. jump right over. Yeah, that's not cool. >> them like I see you. >> a clean podcast, sir. [laughter]. Yeah, you just started this whole thing. by talking about how there's a. two-year-old listening who loves the. show. Any any incendiary words, nap and. wet, they're not inherently dirty. You're an awful person. Anyway, let's. get into it. My guest today is not an. awful person. Good transition. To.

director, producer, and screenwriter. behind such movies as Knocked Up, Superbad, and The 40-Year-Old Virgin. He. now has a new visual memoir. It's very. dynamic, I'm told, titled Comedy Nerd: A. Lifelong Obsession in Stories and. Pictures. I'm excited he's here today. Judd Apatow, welcome. This is interesting because. you've just flooded. my voicemail with just demanding that. you come on the show, which came across.

as very needy. Who's going to be the. neediest? This is like a real battle of. wills. >> This is two guys facing each other in. high noon. >> [laughter]. >> I'm the only guy who begs to get on. podcasts. >> [laughter]. >> Like I I I'm just checking the boxes. because it is a way to find out if. someone's your friend. Like recently, you know, I got to plug my book, Comedy. Nerd, so I I asked someone if I could be. on their podcast and they said no and I. was like, "Whoa." They must have checked. >> Who was it? You got to tell me.

Didn't hear it. Heisen Heisen said? >> [laughter]. >> Heisen Heisen has the number one podcast. in the business. I just got on his. podcast. You must have [laughter] been. on there. No, he's since kicked you off. They they're not airing it. Heisen Heisen said? Um [laughter]. Well, I think that person showed great. tact and uh no. What? I think oversight. Oh, you're Oh, you're right. You're. right. It should be something that is uh. is is good for Judd. Um [laughter] But. this is a business. I need to realize. this is a business. And you know, for.

some people, you know, they got numbers. They got to maintain. >> us. >> They, you know, That is not us. That guy. was like, "We need asses in seats.". You know, um we need sex appeal. And I'm. like, "No, I'm the sex appeal." Oh. Wait, wait. Cue cricket noise. Can you. have cricket noise come in right here? Here we go. There. No, you. Oh, he's too Source it. You could You. could source it. No, I don't want to do. the work. >> [laughter]. >> Well, you got the You got the cute new. [clears throat] haircut. No, it's not.

it. You know what's so funny? You're the. second person today. I came in and. people went, "Great haircut." No. I was. flying all I I got home, I took a. shower, I went to sleep, and then put a. baseball cap in the morning and my it. just flattened out my hair. I've had no. haircut. I literally woke up like this. >> I woke up like this and stumbled in. Um. >> What if it's better than the way you've. done your hair your entire life? >> [laughter]. >> It's. It does look really nice. >> You know what? I should do this way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh no, it's.

uh this is uh this is me just being me, man. It's just that kind [laughter] of. day. Oh god, now you're ruined. >> Well, I've been editing Conan cuz he's. in uh a few documentaries that I'm. working on. >> You're making nine documentaries and. I've seen all of them. >> Yeah, it's you. Sometimes Do you ever. get confused and it's a documentary. about Steve Martin and you have me. talking about John Candy? [laughter]. I'm and it doesn't even matter anymore. The uh the funniest one that you're in. is the Elvis comeback special. documentary because you are on not as.

Conan, funny man. You're on as Elvis. expert. Yes. There's no irony. No one. mocks the idea that it's you and you. seem to know more than anyone I've ever. seen about Elvis, which is something I I. thought you just like Lincoln or I have. to [laughter] tell you this. They shot. that a long time ago or a while ago and. I forget things. And so I, this is a. real story, I'm at home. I love all. things Elvis. And I see that there's. this thing about the '68 comeback. special. I'm like, "Oh, I'll watch. this." I'm watching it Oh boy. in my.

room and in in in the, you know, TV. room. I'm watching it and all of a. sudden I heard a very familiar voice. said, "You have to remember where Elvis was in. his career in 1968." And I'm like, "What. the fuck?". >> [laughter]. >> And I'm in the documentary talking about. And I a lot and I didn't remember that I. had done this. And I And then next thing. I know, I'm nodding going, "He's right.". >> [laughter]. >> I like this guy. Yeah. I do him. OH GOD. And how do they even know you're the. Elvis guy? I think it's out there a.

little bit. Uh yeah. >> I've been following you my whole life. I've never known that it was like enough. to go doc. No, no, it's It's Elvis and. Son of Sam. >> [laughter]. >> I'm in seven Son of Sam docs. We're not. here to talk about Son of Sam. We're. getting to him in the second half. Um we're here to talk about you, Judd. Apatow. Uh and you have a book, Comedy. Nerd, which is extremely impressive. This is. I got this book and I'm looking at it.

and one of the things that immediately. drew me to this book is its gorgeous. photos. It's all photos. I can flip. through it. I don't have to read as much. as I And then of course, it's. interspersed with uh great observations, uh but it's a it's basically your career. and you've had a career that merits a. book of this size cuz you've made so. many. great films and you've been involved in. so much television and just comedy in. general. And if you're a comedy nerd, this is the book to get. I really loved.

it. >> Oh, thanks. Yeah, it's uh cuz I've. always been a hoarder. I found a picture. of my room from when I was in sixth. grade and in my closet you could see I. have my Phil Collins autographed album. and my Dave Kingman New York Mets. autographed bat bat. And I'm like It's. like the Smithsonian in my head. And so. [laughter] when we were doing the book, I, you know, I had I just scanned. everything and then I got all the photos. from all the movies and then wrote some. essays after the fact. But I also. finished it and thought it's so long. that it feels like.

a a textbook about workaholism. Like. this is someone who needed mental help. and should have found a better way to. get help sooner. Well, that's why I. think it's good at the end you have a if. you need help like me. >> [laughter]. >> and then which medications you've tried, um which clearly aren't working. Are you. nostalgic as a person? Like do you look. back all the time at things? >> Uh you know, I try not to look back too. much because I want to be, you know, in. it now and making things now, but um I'm.

very sentimental. If I see. if if I just bump into a writer that. worked with me in '93 or '94 or an. intern, I'm very sentimental for Oh my. god, you were there. That was so weird. You know, what a what a special time. that was. What a weird. raw, scary time that was, but I like to. connect with people from that from that. era. It's weird being older. Is it? >> Is it a weird. >> Oh, take it easy. [laughter]. What? No, I mean like I I like getting. older. I was just talking with friends.

of mine. >> talking about you and Matt. We're. talking about older older. >> No, no, no, no. No. >> Judd and I Judd and I fought in the. Korean War. >> [laughter]. >> He saved my life. on all of his shows. Yeah. You know, like [laughter] like. you have stories about like Sandler from. 40 years ago. >> Well, here's the weird thing. I know. you're celebrate I mean, it's I think. it's been Is it been 25 years since. 40-Year-Old Virgin or 20 years? 20. years. Okay. I mean, that feels weird to me. When.

that's 20 years ago and I've. done the math of um. you know, if people if some. I don't know. Is this a very hard thing. to explain? It's not that hard. I'm just. inarticulate. If [laughter]. I remember when I was in college and I. was working on the humor magazine and. grads old grads would come back and I'd. be like, "Oh my god, these fossils.". >> [laughter]. >> And. And I would say that to their faces. I would say the Natural History Museum. is down the block.

>> [laughter]. >> But. I've done the math and I realized that. if I showed up now, it would be the. equivalent of someone showing up uh it. when I was in college who had uh been. drafted in 1941. I mean, it's like the same. And I can't. I cannot accept that. >> No, it's like you just by being older, you're creepy. You know? >> [laughter]. >> Like Like if Like if I just go into a. dance club and do nothing but stand. there, people will call the police. [laughter].

You just being on an elevator is creepy. >> Yeah. You want an escalator, creepy. >> [laughter]. >> That is the best That is the. That's such a great observation that. >> [laughter]. >> you don't have to do It's not Oh, he's. hitting on a 20-year-old. No. He's standing there. >> It's the less you do that's creepy. And. he's drinking a glass of water. [laughter] and it's creepy. He won't blink. Yeah. It's like in New. York there's a park like a for kids and. there's all these kids like little, you. know, uh uh rides and stuff on it. And.

there's a big sign that says, "You're. not allowed in the park without a kid.". >> Oh yeah. And like so if I just walk in. there, I'm a creepy person. I'm not. allowed to enjoy the joy of children. A. creep walking [laughter] around with a. ventriloquist dummy. GET THE GET OUT OF HERE. >> [music]. [music]. >> BUT IT IS WEIRD HAVING memories that are. from like decades ago and you know, we've talked about it. I remember when. you did, you know, sketches with Robert.

Richards and. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. and Lisa Kudrow and. Igby's one day and and just like knowing. people from like their very beginnings. to all the things they accomplished, it. it blows your mind like the Mark Twain. thing for you and like with Sandler when. we were all there for Sandler and you. just you just can't believe all this. stuff happened. Right. You can't believe. it happened and I still refuse to. believe that somehow it's been. legitimized, you know? Because I. remember uh you know, uh just at the very beginning it all.

felt so illegitimate. It all felt so. wrong that we would be allowed to do. anything. And now all these years later. at these some of these nice events where. you get an award or something, they're acting like, "Well, what an. esteemed body of work." And I want to. say, "No. I SHOULDN'T BE HERE NOW. This is. absurd.". >> It's a masturbating bear. >> [laughter]. >> Well, he was getting the word out on a real. problem. that I was struggling with. But you uh and you got your Mark Twain. award during the Trump administration, which makes it so much sweeter. Yeah.

Yeah, it was well Cuz he could have. killed it. And it didn't hit his his uh. I don't think it hit his radar. I think. he he didn't think I was that Conan. O'Brien. >> the why you're speaking of legitimizing, you might get the last legitimate one. Yeah. Uh well, they're They might I don't know. what they're going to do. I don't know what they're going to do. Yeah, I might be the last comedian ever. It's uh going to be Fred Travalena next. year. >> [laughter]. >> I'll be there to support him. Um It's funny [clears throat] cuz we I. was looking through your book and trying. to figure out like because we have so.

much in common, but one of the things. that might. talk about getting older and our. influences when we were young, but one. of the things that. um is a touchstone for both of us is Mel. Brooks. >> Like this our whole childhood was just. that run of high anxiety and and all of. them. That's why I wanted to make a. documentary about Mel. First of all, uh. I got to talk to him for 10 hours. So. just to get to ask him questions for 10. hours is amazing. And then it's also the. doc's interesting because he it's.

emotional. Like he talks about his life. and how he feels about it and it's not. just the funny stories. He he really, you know, goes deep into his friendship. and and his marriage and and his life. and his kids and and you see what a. great guy he is in a way that I think, uh you know, we see him as a hilarious. guy, but he's also this wonderful. person. Do you think that. there's a something that happens when. [clears throat] people get to Mel's age. if they're lucky enough to get to Mel's. age. I don't know what he is now. He'd. be in his. 90s. [clears throat] Jesus Christ.

They may be able to access. emotions more than they could earlier in. their life. Which is why I think it's a valuable. time. that. there's something that happens I think. and especially with men. There's there's something there's a some. of the walls may become down and they. become more accessible at this stage in. their existence to. really being in touch with. stuff that they might not have been able. to access when they were 40, 50, 60.

Even in the doc he talks about living. through the depression. Which is wild. That's when he was a kid. and his his father died when he was. really young and he just talks about his. aunt took a job in a factory to help. take care of her sister's kids. And just. just him talking about what that that. meant to him. You know, because he. really had to work in like the you know, in the. What was it called? The the schmata. business. Yeah, the garment industry. The garment industry, right. [laughter]. Yeah. Yeah, and he talks about like it's. a miracle that that's not where I landed.

up. The fact that I had this career and. didn't just go into the the garment. district is incredible. He told me once. he was telling me about being in World. War II. and he's in Europe and the Germans are. on the other side of the river and he. would mock them and they would yell back. and mock him. They're just soldiers. yelling back across the river and him. and I thought. Mel Brooks fought Hitler. >> [laughter]. >> For real. And and the thing is it's it's.

mean. No, this isn't a weird. What it gets to get more real than that. We talk about any comedian I think or. artist who fought Hitler. >> [laughter]. >> Um they just they're they're writing. from a checkbook that I could never. match. >> Springtime for Hitler. Yeah, and and it. was such a big part of his work and it I. know that there have been. I think he told me once that when. The Producers was on stage in New York. was a massive hit that someone once came.

down on the front of the theater and was. screaming about you can't do this, you. can't because it's. making light of Hitler and everything. and I thought. Mel Brooks can. Do you know what I mean? If anyone can, Mel Brooks can because. he's a Jew who fought Hitler. Yeah. >> And so he his perspective and he can do. anything. There's no politically correct in that. situation with Mel or incorrect with Mel. Brooks. And I asked him I said, was. anyone else really going hard at Hitler. like [laughter]. the way you did? And he's like, I don't.

think so. Cuz if you do think like who. really went just hard at Hitler before. him? I mean Charlie Chaplin I guess. before all that started up but not. there's not another guy who really was. obsessed with It's weird a lot of. performers and comics from that era were. very pro-Hitler. Oh [laughter] no. From the 60s, you. know, Laugh-In was really a pro-Hitler. show. Red Skelton. Red Skelton, oh my. god. >> [laughter]. >> He's going to get us sued by an estate. How I got sued by Red Buttons once. because we did something in the very.

early like the first weeks of the late. night show. Um we did some Clutch Cargo and we did. some reference to you know, uh Red Buttons. just as a I don't even remember what it. was. >> a never had a dinner joke. Something. We. did some joke about Red Buttons that was. just literally an aside. And. um I go home and the next day I'm trying. to go to bed and it's just early days of.

me doing the show and I'm just I can't. sleep. Are we going to make it? I think. I'm going to get canceled but I got to. hang on and the news came on and they. said, "And when we come back. Red Buttons sues Conan O'Brien for $20. million." That's how I That's how I. found out. That's how I found out the. local, you know, Chuck Scarborough the. local news. Anyway, it all got resolved. I paid him. My my grandfather produced a. Red Buttons album. Oh my god. >> Uh and so when my grandfather died. suddenly of a heart attack I was like 16. and I'm at at the.

the with the funeral and I'm just crying. so hard and in the middle of crying. someone walks over and goes, "Judd, THIS. IS RED BUTTONS.". >> [laughter]. >> AND AS LIKE A COMEDY NERD I WAS JUST. LIKE, "RED BUTTONS.". >> [laughter]. >> And he sued you and immediately stopped. crying. Red Buttons. >> [laughter]. >> Um yeah, Mel I mean and how is Mel? I. have to ask you. I mean the funny thing. about Mel is. he his memory.

short-term, long-term could not be. better. So much better than mine. Like. mine is so bad. Like I'll like go to. leave the house and get in the passenger. seat. and just sit there. >> [laughter]. >> You know, like I I'm all scrambled. Like. it's already happening. And Mel he. doesn't [laughter] reach for a name from. the 50s. Like he's just incredibly. sharp. So it it was a you know, a great. conversation cuz he really can look back. at 100 years and tell you about.

everything. Unbelievable. And he's still crazy funny. Like like if. he wants to be he's right he's right. there. I remember me and Bill Hader went. to visit him. years ago and and then at the end of it. he goes, "Come again, BUT NOT SOON.". >> [laughter]. >> THAT'S A GREAT LINE. Now. you talk about this. let's talk about you and your career. because to to discuss this book we.

really need to go back to. this interesting arc that you had which. is at the beginning it's you wanted to. stand up. You wanted to stand up comedy. You're a performer. And then you have. this audition for Jim Henson. And I have to ask you about this because. well, it's just it's fascinating to me. This and it and you claim that this. audition with Jim Henson is the reason. you decided to not pursue stand up. anymore. Is that true? Uh it certainly. was a a key linchpin of the decision.

But I was living with Adam Sandler in. the Valley. We had this little apartment. and you know, Adam would be on MTV every. once in a while or the Cosby show was. you know, one of the one of the. feels friends, you know, and. there was this audition to be on. a pilot where a couple of comedians. would travel across the country and they. were going to give the comedians uh. cameras and you know, their own video. cameras right in the beginning of when. that seemed exciting. Like we'll give. them a camera and they'll shoot it. themselves. And so all these people were.

you know, handing in their auditions. that they would make themselves. And so. me and Sandler went down to the beach. with my grandmother and made some weird. I don't know what we did. And then I had. a list of ideas of things you could. maybe do on the show. And. I find out later that I didn't get it. but then they say to me, "Uh would you. like to buy all your ideas?" And then. they said, "But he didn't want you. because he thought you lacked warmth.". >> [laughter]. >> First of all, why tell you? Oh, and one.

more thing before you hang up. >> [laughter]. >> And I just thought this guy as Kermit. taught me to read. Like [laughter] this. is the warmest man is you know, it's. like Kermit telling you to off. That's so great. [laughter]. >> But in a way I think he was right. Like. I was probably like repressed and. self-conscious and and like he was smart. enough to go, >> [laughter]. >> you know, like like I could feel it when. I was around Sandler or Jim Carrey as a. kid like they are just way looser than. me and just charismatic and I'm just.

like in my head. So I think it hurt me. cuz I'm like he got me. He he knows I'm. I'm I'm too shut down right now. And so. then when writing opportunities came up. I thought, "Well, Jim Henson thought I. should be a writer. I would just take. the writing opportunities and do less of. the performing things." I always think. >> [laughter]. >> And then he died. Yeah. >> Like like not long after that. So I'm. like Before he could take it back. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> LIKE I WAS SO UPSET about it and I'm. just like, "Ah, God, what what does he. knows? He's a jerk." And then they're.

like, "He's dead." I'm like, "Oh, like he's the most important person in a. young person's life. Sesame Street." I. mean I put in a billion hours watching. it. So yes. >> he's the he sounded like Kermit when he. spoke. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Which makes it even worse cuz it's. Kermit saying you don't have warmth. You don't seem like a warm person to me. You lack warmth. Yeah, you lack warmth. [laughter]. You're just not warm. off and die. Just go shine your shoes, you mutt. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, I did get to clean it up with him. later.

I'm fascinated by the leap to. directing. What made you think, "Oh, no, I will direct.". Well, I you know, I went to college and. studied screenwriting and I took some. directing classes and I was just so. terrible. I did my films I mean if I. think about them I won't sleep at night. about that I showed them to people. Like. I I couldn't even believe that the two. pieces of film you would tape together. that you would see them and it would. like change images. I was like I was. like a four-year-old and and so I lost.

confidence in my ability to do it. I. also had an irrational. fear that I would get the eye lines. wrong. And I would cut a movie together. and everyone would be looking in the. wrong direction. [laughter]. Like like that probably made me not do. it for 10 years was an irrational fear. of eye lines. >> [laughter]. >> It is a real problem in your films. I've. gone back. Even your biggest hits no one's looking. in the right direction. [laughter]. It's very distracting. I MEAN AND EVEN NOW I don't know what. the lenses do. You know, I always have. to like hire like Janusz Kaminski to.

shoot it cuz I'm so bad that I need like. a really smart person. So I delayed it. when we did The Ben Stiller Show I never. pushed to direct any of the sketches. I. just was so afraid. And then I was. working at Larry Sanders and then one. day Garry Shandling just literally just. walked in my office and goes, "You're. doing next week.". Great. >> Off of nothing. Great. No conversation. >> He threw you in the deep end of the. pool. Yeah, like immediately and came. down to set and and helped me and was. you know so helpful. And. and so. that was the the first time that I ever.

did it and I just had to figure it out. And then we did Freaks and Geeks and I. did a bunch of those and a bunch of. Undeclared. And so your confidence is. growing. Yeah. But once you start working with a huge. budget and it's a movie. How terrified were you with your first. What was your first directing experience. in a movie? Well, I just worked as a producer on. Anchorman. And that was McKay's first time. directing a movie and so it was really. fun to be there and watch Adam go. through the experience and Adam was very. improvisational and so in addition to.

this amazing script he wrote with Will. he you know he was doing what Stiller. was doing which is a lot of like playing. in addition to the the script. So when. we were doing The 40-Year-Old Virgin I. thought okay I'm going to I'm going to. do that even with the dramatic scenes I. think there's. something good could come out of. riffing. But I remember like two days. before we're going to start shooting. I was just really nervous and it's also. Carell's the lead so I'm going like I. think this is the guy. And I watched a TV show that Steve was. on like a sitcom that had been canceled. and they were burning off the episodes.

like like a terrible show. And two nights before we started. shooting I just watched an episode and I. watched Steve and I went. oh this could be that bad. >> [laughter]. >> Like if I don't do a good job I could. make Steve look so bad cuz this show. made Steve look bad and Steve's a. genius. And it it really like scared me. to my core. Like oh there's a way to. really be a terrible director. And so I just shot so much footage like. a million feet of film. I had Steve and.

everybody. improvising for hours. The crew hated. me. They were so bored. Like it was the. it was the crew from The Unforgiven. >> [laughter]. >> It was literally Clint Eastwood's crew. I guess what? Clint Eastwood famously. [laughter] is a one take director. Do a take and he has famously like well. it's 5:00 everyone go home now. They. love Clint and then you come along. >> Yeah and I'm like and I'm doing like. three [laughter] hours of improv on like. Steve peeing with a boner. You know? And.

they the whole crew would look at me. like I can't believe [laughter]. I can't believe it. And the DP when he. saw the finished movie he just said to. me oh now I see what you were doing. But they really did look annoyed and. that kind of made me scared but I just. thought I just have to go into editing. knowing that if it's not working I have. other stuff to fix it with. You know. what's interesting you. whenever someone has a great success. they can actually send the wrong signal. to other people and I think one of the.

things you did is you made these. terrific movies. got all these really funny people and. yes you had a good script but you're. also letting them play. You've got a. deep bench. You're trying different. combinations of things and I think. people started to watch your early films. and think oh. it's just letting people riff. Yeah. And. you think well if it's Judd and he's got. all of his people and he knows exactly. what he wants to get yeah. Do you know. what I mean? But if you.

I think other people who don't know that. world took that as oh that's how you do. it. And then I remembered seeing just a. ton of comedies where they would just. let. you know people who shouldn't be riffing. Walter Cronkite. >> [laughter]. >> and. Dame Edna and they'd be just it would be. painful. Yeah because. if you can tell an actor thinks they're. being funny it instantly is awful. Like if there's [snorts] any. self-awareness of like this is really.

working. And so the cockiness of doing. improv well even if the jokes are good. like takes you out of the scene. It only. really works if people are so deep in. character that when you're in editing it. could seem seamless almost like a. documentary. Like when it works it's. like oh this was like a documentary of. peeking in on people and when it doesn't. work it looks like someone thinks. they're hilarious and then that creeps. you out. You know like you can't have. that. I recently saw one of the Pink. Panthers which are my touchstone movies.

Peter Sellers Blake Edwards. It was one of the later ones and I think. it's a scene with Diane Keaton and this. this is how clearly she was directed to. do it so it's not on her but it's. Clouseau's being Clouseau Peter Sellers. and she's laughing and finding it really. funny. And I was watching it with my son this. is a couple years ago and both of us. were like oh no. No you can't no one in the scene can. think he's funny. You know someone just. poured sewage into our soup. >> [laughter]. >> We can't eat this. Do you know what I. mean? It was just so awful and but I.

loved that my son saw that too. He was. like no you can't do that. You can't. laugh at Clouseau in the movie. Who's. the guy that played Clouseau's boss? Herbert Lom. Oh my god is he funny. Oh. my With the with the twitching eye yeah. You didn't get that out first though I. noticed Conan got that out first. I was. helping. I thought She tried to jump in. with Herbert Lom. and then she realized she doesn't know. what we're talking about. >> [laughter]. >> And she never ever will. Cuz I remember. seeing Being There and at the end of. Being There during the credit sequence.

they show. raw footage. I mean we had seen like. bloopers before in like Smokey and the. Bandit but we but this was literally. just a working like watching the dailies. of him He's in the He's in the operating. room and he's riffing and you know who. that really pissed off? Herbert Lom? No. Good but. good guess. Okay you're both idiots. >> [laughter]. >> I just want you to know we've been. wondering are you really idiots? But now. the proof is in. >> [laughter]. >> You can tell your doctors it's been. confirmed. No.

they put that in and and Peter Sellers. flipped out and he said this ruins the. whole movie. It doesn't but. he's kind of right that he's created. this character and now you're going to. show a blooper reel at the end. It shows. that they were just so nervous cuz you. know the movie ends with him walking on. water and it's this very surreal ending. and then he cut him going you tell. Raphael. Right? It's like this really. funny dirty riff. >> it's basically him breaking up he can't. get through the speech without laughing.

but he just was appalled that Blake. Edwards put that in. Cuz you I'm not. Blake Edwards I'm sorry. I forget who it. is. Hal Ashby. Herbert Lom. But you. could you know. cuz you would think oh you're going to. forget what the movie was about. But you. know I had a similar thing at the end of. This is 40. I had a over the credits Melissa. McCarthy and Leslie and Paul Rudd in the. principal's office because I just. remembered Melissa riffing saying the. meanest things ever to the principal.

Was the what one of the funniest thing I. I'd ever witnessed in any space and so I. put it at the end of the movie and I. showed the movie to James Brooks and and. he's like. what do you think about. having those bloopers in there? Like. what do you think in there? >> [laughter]. >> Like as he should right? He's like do. you think that like kills the spell of. of the movie? And I said uh. well I kind of feel like I've put people. through a big emotional journey for like. two hours and this is like my thank you. for hanging in with me. And he goes all.

right man okay. >> [laughter]. >> So you don't want to take my advice. I'm one of the most iconic comedy writer. producers of all time [laughter] and. directors. But I just offered you some. advice. >> [music]. >> Now you talk about. Comedy Nerd is the title of your book. and this is interesting because. I didn't even know I was a comedy nerd.

when I was a comedy nerd but and now in. retrospect I see I was a comedy nerd. You were aware when you were a comedy. nerd that you were in fact a comedy. nerd. Yeah because I think. people were into like sports and I you. know was. >> into sports. >> [laughter]. >> Like you're describing some inner gas. out there in the end of the universe. that no one's ever seen. People were. into athletics. >> [laughter]. >> I'd be nerdier. And so the the idea that I had found.

something that was just mine cuz no one. else cared at all. I mean even with. Saturday Night Live suddenly coming on. the air it wasn't like there was anyone. who liked it like 5% as much as me but I. also thought oh it's cool that I have a. hobby. that no one else has and I also really. like the fact that no one liked it and I. also thought there weren't many people. in the country who cared about comedy. So even as a little kid I thought. I could get a job there's only seems to. be about 100 people doing this on Earth. Maybe I could slip in if I really care.

about it. And you were living where? You. were living in Long Island. Yeah okay. It's uh had you ever seen. famous people when you were a kid. because I had no exposure to any famous. people and that that fueled my belief. that this is something that couldn't be. attained. If you lived in Brookline Massachusetts. Like no you can't do that. That's a. different universe. >> I had the opposite. My grandma was. buddies with Totie Fields. Mhm. And she. was like Legendary comedian. Just so. funny and she uh.

you know she was kind of like a Joan. Rivers self-deprecating. comedian. There's a really funny clip of. her on YouTube on the Mike Douglas show. and the other the other guest is Gene. Simmons from Kiss. Oh Jesus. >> Perfect. And she. and she goes uh wouldn't it be funny if. we found out that you were just a nice. Jewish boy under that makeup? And he. goes and he kind of makes some comment. like you. and then she just goes yeah I can tell. FROM THE HOOK. >> [laughter]. >> WHAT? JESUS.

OH WHAT? >> [laughter]. >> JESUS. I'm guessing she's Jewish as. well. >> Yeah she is. She is. Okay. She she's. allowed to she she was allowed to do. that. But um, so I went to see her as a kid. and she had her leg amputated cuz she. had diabetes. So, she did this comeback. tour where they she came out like on a. golf cart and they put her on the chair. and then she would do jokes about. having, uh, had her leg amputated. And. she had all these funny jokes about. going to get the spare tire out of the. car at the gas station and the guy. seeing her other leg, you know, that it. was all like.

like riffing about it. And I I remember. getting standing ovations as like a. 10-year-old and and thinking, "Oh, wow, she's made herself cool." Yes. >> Like she's the coolest person in the. world, this kind of like chubby lady. with one leg and like people are adoring. her. So, I think somewhere in my head, I'm like, "That seems like a good That. was my, you know, 10 from your show of. shows. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, you get. into Pryor, Steve Martin. And that's. just, you know, Well, that era of I. mean, George Carlin albums were coming. out, those Richard Pryor albums were.

coming out. So, I mean, it's kind of. insane when you look back like between. '75 and '85. what happened. So, if you were obsessed. with it, you were just getting fed Monty. Python and then Second City and and I I. just couldn't get enough of all of it. Uh, and. and then the thought, "Well, I wonder. how could I do something? Like what. would I do?" And I didn't really have a. take on what I would do. I just thought, "Oh, I'll be a comedian." And that was. never going that great. It was going. like okay. I would do some of those like. evening at the Improv shows. But then I. met Stiller.

And then we came up with the Ben Stiller. Show. And that's the thing that kind of. switched the gear of the whole thing. >> It's also an interesting time cuz we. came up sort of in the same wave. There was much less comedy. It was a big. deal when we were kids. I mean, now we. are those guys from the 19 from the. depression who were talking about when. we were kids we'd gather around the. curve top radio. But in the '70s, I. would know that Marty Feldman has a has. a. a weird comedy special that's going to. come out this summer. And there's only. going to be three episodes of it. But my.

brothers and I would wait for it. It was. an It was an occasion. >> Yeah, you'd track it. Andy Kaufman is. going to be on Taxi. Yeah. And you knew. months in advance. Yeah, now there's so. much stuff like people go, "Why don't. people go to comedies?" I'm like, "Cuz. all they're doing is looking at good. comedy like on TikTok all day." And you. could go, uh, you know, "Is it good or. not?" Yeah, it is. Like someone like. pooping in a hot tub is better than. everything I've ever done. >> [laughter]. >> You know what I mean? Like it's all It's. the funniest falling down joke. It's the. funniest sex joke. >> That's [laughter] what I keep thinking.

is that. you've given essentially given however. many billion people there are on Earth, um, and you know the answer. >> Herbert Lom. >> Eight. Herbert Lom. Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. There were Herbert Lom many. people. Eight billion. >> Okay. Eight billion people on Earth. And. let's just say, I don't know, let's just. be kind and say. 4 billion of them have a phone that can. record or 5 billion have a phone that. can record video. They're constantly If you've got that. many people out there,

if one of them is going to beat any. professional comic mind because they. were actually shooting their grandmother. when a lightning bolt hit her and her. wig went flying off and landed in the. soup. >> [laughter]. >> And then they put a funny song to it. That's never going to happen to that. person again, but they have put that out. into the universe and you look at it and. you go, "Oh my god, it's the footage. you've shown me of the mascot slipping. on the. And it's so and I think I could get.

Judd, I could get all the funniest. people I know, we could work really. hard, none of us are going to come close. to mascot slipping on the while they're. trying to interview him. It's just so. funny and the person who shot that will. never do that again, but it doesn't. matter [laughter] cuz there's a couple. of billion other people out there who. are going to take a shot. >> competing against that. That's why I. think like one of the things people like. best from my movies is Carell getting. laxed. Because it [laughter] is the. equivalent of a YouTube video of just. watching someone being abused. As soon.

as it starts, you're like, "Oh, jeez, this is real." I could just see it. Like. the audience, we didn't tell them it was. real, but they literally could just feel. it, you know. >> Yeah, you know. Yeah. That's why I. Jackass is the funniest thing ever. You. know, you just You just have to stop. thinking you can compete with it. And. then just just muddle along. >> to do a better stunt than anyone on. Jackass and I'm going to do it, too. Yeah, you should. Conan O'Brien died. today. If you just want me to punch you in the. nuts, I'm happy to do it. >> [laughter]. >> You mean again? We can take turns. >> Okay. Um, do you have.

the ability. to be. sentimental and really attached to just. like. all the experiences that you've had in. your career or. have you worked on yourself because a. lot of people can't. A lot of people. were just they stay in the moment and. they're like, "I got to get I got to. make this work. I got to" and I know. that you work on yourself a lot. You. read a lot of self-help books. And is this something you're working on. to like trying to be able to access, "I'm so lucky. I can't believe I get to.

do this." All that kind of stuff? I think, you know, my parents never. talked about anything with therapy or. religion as when I was a kid. Like. nothing. They didn't They didn't bring. it up. Uh, although my dad did when my. parents were getting divorced leave out. a book of, uh, that was called Growing Up Divorced like. hoping I'd read it. So, he just left it. on a coffee table. And then. >> [laughter]. >> literally like His way of helping you. was just homework. So, like [laughter] So, we never talked. about all the pain and then and then one.

day I like 3 years ago I mentioned to. him like, "You know, the only You never. talked to me. The only thing that even. ever helped me is I found this book in. the house and it was a little helpful.". He goes, "Yeah, I left that book out for. you.". >> [laughter]. >> And I'm like, "You left it out?" Yeah, I. hoped you'd read it. And I'm like, "Well, you didn't ask me if I read it. Like you didn't know that I read it.". Yeah, but, you know, it it got moved. >> [laughter]. >> It was in a different spot. This is what. passed for a real heart-to-heart in our.

era. I think when, uh, my mom was pregnant. with my youngest brother, uh, uh, someone left a book out that was called. Mommy and Daddy, you know, have a are. having a baby. I remember that one. And. I remembered when you get to the crucial. part of how the baby was, uh, created, it's just two It's a drawing of the. mommy and the daddy lying in bed with. their covers up to their chin. >> [laughter]. >> looking straight up at the ceiling. smiling and it just says, "Mommy and. Daddy had a nap." And like they get to.

the crucial point. [laughter]. And then your family does it. I know, exactly. Well, that's. That is how we do it. >> [laughter]. >> Um, Oh, I have a very traumatic story. around about that book cuz that book was. called Where Did I Come From? >> Uh-huh. And it was like funny cartoons. of like a sperm in a top hat, you know, and. >> [laughter]. >> and then they would say, you know, "An. orgasm is kind of like a sneeze, but. different.". >> Yeah. >> And, uh, and then it would show. >> out not your nose, BUT YOUR DICK.

>> [laughter]. >> JESUS, BOOK. THEY HAD LIKE the mom naked. with her boobs out. It was like, "Some. people call them jugs. Some people call. them titties.". >> [laughter]. >> This is not We're not talking about the. same book. My book had none of this. I. would remember a sperm with a top hat. [laughter]. So, this was the book in my. in our world. And my friend had the. book. And I was like literally like. seven or something, seven or eight. And. I'm like, "I need more time with that. book.". >> [laughter].

>> And so, I steal the book and I take it. home. And then my my mom. sees my napsack. She's like, "What's. this book?". And I'm like, "Oh, I took it out from. the library." She's like, "Well, there's. no library card thing there." I'm like, "I don't know, maybe they didn't put it. on that one. I don't know.". Then she's like, "You're lying to me.". I'm like, "I'm not lying to you. That's. where I got the book from the library.". And, uh, you know, and so then she's. like, "Well, when your dad gets home, we're going to have to deal with this.". Oh, boy. >> know, and my dad comes home and he's. just like, "Don't be a liar. Don't be a. thief [laughter] and a liar." And so, my. family didn't have the instinct to go,

"I think he wants to know the facts of. life.". >> [laughter]. >> He wants to know Oh my They are pursuing. THE WRONG AVENUE. WHERE DID THE BOOK. WHERE DID THE BOOK ORIGINATE? >> [laughter]. >> NO, NO, NO, NO. HE'S CLEARLY crying out. to learn about sex. Yes, yes, yes. BUT. BOOKSTORE OR LIBRARY? >> [laughter]. >> STOLEN OR BORROWED? I never left it out. for you in silence. It couldn't be. So, my dad comes home and then like I. getting like a spanking. Like I'm going. to give you a spanking. And I'm like, "I. didn't steal the book." And they're. like, "Just say you stole the book and.

we won't spank you." And I'm like And in. my head I thought, "I will never admit. it. Ever." Like I I I literally. [laughter] like had an idea like never. admit it no matter what happens right. now. And I just like took this like. spanking. Oh, he'd be [laughter] a good. spanking. >> parents start like crying because they. can't believe I'm so crazy that I. [laughter] won't admit I stole the book. And I'm like John McCain in THE HANOI. HILTON. YOU KNOW, LIKE. >> [laughter]. >> AND THEN TO COMPARE YOUR experience with. John McCain at the Hanoi Hilton IS.

TREASON, SIR. >> [laughter]. [laughter]. >> AND FINALLY MY DAD'S JUST LIKE, "If you. just admit it, we'll never spank you. again." And I went, "Yeah, I stole the. book.". And then they never spanked me again. What a good deal you got, though, man. You really won that negotiation. >> [laughter]. >> But that's how you become the guy that, uh, makes the 40-Year-Old Virgin. Yeah. You know, that kind of trauma. just lives [laughter] in you. There are so many, um,

Jason Segel's character in, uh, in. Knocked Up, with that I remember having that moment. of seeing that in the theater and and so. much I loved about that movie and still. do, but. his character of the way he talks Yeah. to Katherine Heigl and says like, "Oh, the, you know,". talking about her body. Yeah. And it's. he's actually being quite warm, but it's. also he's he's not I don't think he's. crossing a line, but he's on a line and. he's kind of crossing it. It's douchey.

It's. >> Yeah. Well, but the other thing, too, is. like he's just so and because he's so. lovable and sweet, he's the perfect guy. to do it. But I thought, "Oh, this is new ground. Like I haven't seen anyone do this guy. before." I think he said, "I see the. milk came in.". >> [laughter]. >> Right? Wasn't that one of his lines? Which if, you know, if someone said that. to me, I'd be horrified, but I'd also be. like, "I'm impressed that you know. that.". >> Oh no, he knows so much about what a. woman goes through. And he's saying it. with such empathy that you have to.

remind yourself HE'S A GUY. >> [laughter]. >> HE COULDN'T. BUT I MEAN, IT'S WELL, IT WAS funny. because when we were shooting Knocked. Up, you know, we had gotten canceled. with Freaks and Geeks and Undeclared and. and I felt really bad cuz I thought, "All these people are so great and we. they we keep getting kind of crushed by. people." So when they said, "Okay to. Knocked Up," I'm like, "Oh, I could make. all of Seth frie- Seth's friends, everyone I think should be a star.". Right. And just like how and in one. movie, if I can make them all funny, then they all can like work and do cool.

things. And so everyone was very. aggressive, so it was almost competitive. on set. You know, I would even have. sometimes have two people do the same. scene and go, "Hey, let's just see who. does does it funnier." Like it was kind. of not even [laughter] nice. Looking. back, it was Gladiator days. Yes. And uh. but everyone had was a lot of high. energy. Uh and then Segal was doing this. kind of mellow douchey guy, and I. remember thinking, "I don't know if this. is working, but I'm going to just go. with it." And then I got into editing.

and I realized, "Oh, he had countered. the vibe Right. of everyone else and. everything he did." He's playing a. different part of the guitar neck. Like. he's getting a different He's in a. different register completely from. everyone else. >> Yeah. Which is fantastic. Yeah, no, so. so funny. Jason was always the funniest. to deal with like on Freaks and Geeks. when he was. miserable in love with Linda Cardellini. and you knew if you asked him to sing. "Lady" to her and make her cringe, he he. just was so hysterical doing it. >> And he really is that sweet when you.

when you hang out with him or talk to. him, he's got that sweetness. He can. access that. Yeah. But um It was funny. the other night seeing Segal and Seth on. the at the Emmys. Yeah. Like sitting in. the front row next to Harrison Ford. I'm. like, >> [laughter]. >> I was like so excited. It's been a fold in the universe. >> [laughter]. >> Um no, I have that. I think one of the. the big lessons that comes away from me. when I. talk to you or flip through your book is.

my favorite part of this whole business. has been collaboration, has been the. people that I get to work with who. really make me laugh and I'm always. finding running into new people that. really make me laugh. and who are. lovely to be around. And I think to me, that's the great scam of this business. is all these years and years and years. and years and it was my job to be in a. room with Dana Carvey or Robert Smigel.

or. Bob Odenkirk or I mean, I can't even. start to list it cuz it's just so many. people. All those great Simpsons writers. and just. it's it's madness that you get to be. around these people and it's just uh. um it feels like I should have paid for. the privilege, you [laughter] know? Yeah, cuz you'd love it so much. Like. I've been editing a a documentary about. Norm Macdonald, which will be on next year. And there's. I've so I watched all of his clips with. you. Yeah. And they're just they're so.

good. You you kind of can't believe how. many times something magical happened. >> Yeah. on the show. Yeah. You don't. realize till you kind of really line up. all the things Norm Macdonald did, how. many times he did some breakthrough. riotously funny thing. But what the. thing that I was delighted about while. making the documentary is when you go. through his whole life and you go. through all the clips, uh you know, there was a simplicity to. to Norm, which is he loved comedy more. than anything. Like comedy and his. family and that was kind of the main. thing. >> Yeah. And he just loved to make you.

laugh. Like more than almost anyone. where you go, "Oh, that was just the. whole thing to him." Yeah. In fact, I. think he said. uh well, maybe it was like Jon Stewart. was talking about this and maybe I'm. conflating it. Uh. but that. he loved that Norm loved his joke so. much that he didn't care how you. reacted. Oh, that's the other thing. I I. mean, [laughter] I remember this so. clearly, Norm being on the show and. being fantastic, but he had more nerve. than anyone I've met in comedy.

Uh and so he's done and he. leaves the stage, the band's playing, and Andy Richter said, um Norm. doesn't care in a way that frightens me. >> [laughter]. >> And I was like, "That's exactly it.". It's just terrifying because he will he. just And you can see him on Update, all. those times he would lean in and hold. the camera. If the joke doesn't work, he.

slows down. >> He slows down. He's not gently speeding. up to get onto the next one. He is uh. and he just I don't know, he was a. magical magical person who somehow knew, "I won't be here long. I apologize to no. one. This is how it should be done.". Yeah, because when I was a kid, like the. dream was like, "Could you ever be. around Bill Murray or Gilda Radner?". Just to even watch it. happen. So sometimes I think the only. reason why I ever did anything was just. to be able to watch. Like like all the. work I ever did was just to sit in a.

chair on the Anchorman set and watch. them sing "Afternoon Delight." Like, "Oh, I found a way. >> [laughter]. >> to have credibility to be a fan." Yeah, yeah. It's a lovely thing. What a I just. always think this is a dodge of some. kind. [laughter] We we snuck our way. into this thing and soon they will find. out and escort me out. But I'll take it. The book um is called Comedy Nerd. and it's a delight. It's just so nice to. have all of this here and even just. flipping through it,

you get hit with so many images of. hilarious moment, hilarious moment, hilarious moment, you know? And there's. photos of you in there. I know, I didn't and I didn't clear. them. >> [laughter]. >> And the money goes to. uh fire charities in California. >> you, the money goes to me. >> [laughter]. >> And A26. Breaking news, Conan O'Brien taking fire. funding. >> [laughter]. >> much needed fire funding over small. dispute with Judd Apatow. Um and you've got all these you're.

constantly uh making these. documentaries, which uh this is a new. thing for you. I mean, you're so I The. first one I think you did was Garry. Shandling. Is that right? Well, the. first one was a 30 for 30 about Dwight. Gooden and Darryl Strawberry. >> Yes, that's right. That's right. But I. think the what the first comedy one. was what you did for and I think I told. you at the time, "This is a mitzvah for. Garry." Cuz Garry really really deserved. the full treatment and you gave it to. him. And then.

um. I'm looking forward to all these other. ones and I'll be in some of them, I. suppose. >> a lot of them. You're talking about. [clears throat] Elvis during the Maria. Bamford documentary. >> [laughter]. >> He just Elvis just had a thing. Don't. [laughter] it's Maria Bamford. I'm just. I don't talk. um. Maria Bamford took black music and white. music and fused [laughter] them. at a time after World War II. All right, [laughter] go with God. That's what I say to you. Thank you.

>> [music]. >> We're back. Part two with fake lawyer. David Melman who works here at Team. Coco. Um We're talking to him about. music rights. >> Yeah, I was going to get there. >> Cuz this is a different episode. >> other things, too. I mean, you you. devoted a huge chunk to how good-looking. he is. Unlike a certain lawyer, I don't. drone on and on. >> [laughter]. >> Unless you're talking about how. attractive he is. >> Well, and you're being billed. So this.

is we can get talk as long as I hear. you. >> your meter's running? [laughter]. Absolutely. Oh my god. I can go all day. I can go all day. Oh my god. I can go. all day. Fortunately All day, [laughter]. buddy. I love that. I'm going to get a. bill tomorrow. for $900. >> Exactly. Keep going. I love this. David. Melman is his name. He does a wonderful. job here at Team Coco. And we had a. legitimate question. We're following up. uh this previous conversation we had. This is part two. Uh can we sing popular. ditties on the show even if we're. singing them badly, out of tune, using.

incorrect lyrics? Do we still have to. pay? And David, your answer was maybe. And the thing that got my attention is. that you say, "Whatever happens, you have to start. making phone calls and writing emails to. people to ask if we can buy it," which. is it sounds uh draconian to me. It can. be, but it's also you have to look at. what you're trying to clear. So you. mentioned Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Michael. Jackson, Britney I mean, these are.

iconic bands' music. If you were, let's. say, in that band and and you created. this original work, right? >> Yep. You would I'm not saying you. necessarily want to be compensated for. it, but certainly credit. And that's. something that you have brought into the. media space that you are protecting. Okay. >> So I think you had mentioned Conan. before of, "Wouldn't you want your. material out there being promoted? Wouldn't you want to be on the Conan.

O'Brien Needs a Friend podcast with. music?". It depends on who you're trying to copy, if you will. Okay, I'll be Paul. McCartney. Sure. You've called Paul. McCartney because I sang a quick snippet. of "Let It Be." You call me. Hello. Sure. Paul McCartney came on your. podcast. >> No, I'm doing it. >> [laughter]. >> I'm doing it right now, David. I. understand. David, this is this is a. role play. ARE YOU A lawyer and not a comedian? I. wouldn't be talking to Paul McCartney, [laughter] but if I had been.

David. I I I I I I I I I I I I I I IMPROV. skills are terrible. >> [laughter]. >> I would not be talking to him. THAT. WOULD NOT HAPPEN in this scenario. >> But if I was. Okay, that's what we're. doing right now. You just rang the. phone. Hello, who's here? Who's who who who's there? Hello, is this a telephone? Who's here? >> [laughter]. >> Who's who's on the phone? Is this I just. picked up me phone and I was wondering. it went all jingley wingley and I picked. [laughter] it up. Who's there? Please.

identify yourself. This is David Melman with Team. Coco/Sirius. XM. I work with Conan O'Brien. Oh, Conan O'Brien. He was on the I was. on his podcast I think and he's. interviewed me. interviewed me a few times. He's a very good musician and singer. Um, what was your question? My question is we would like to use a. few seconds of your Let It Be. >> Oh, that's not happening.

>> [laughter]. >> No way. That's a song I wrote. and that's a big song, 1969. Paul. >> on Let It Be and you know, I just had a. little tune in me head and I came in. He said, "Hey John, what do you think of. Let It Be?" And he was like, "I don't. know.". >> [laughter]. >> I said, "Oh, that's that's Ringo." And. Ringo was like, "Oh, I'll just play the. drums." And then George was like, "I'm. kind of grumpy." And then I said, "You. know we made it in the. So no, I wouldn't. What do you What do. you want to do with Let It Be? What do. you want to do?" Hi, this is Michael. Jackson. I think I actually own all the. rights. >> [laughter]. >> I'm willing to sell.

>> point. >> Oh, I I forgot to mention that I'm here. having tea with Michael Jackson's ghost. Um, >> [laughter]. >> so oh, by the way, boo. That doesn't sound so scary now, is it? >> [laughter]. >> It's more like. a visual thing. HE WOULD SAY. OH, SO IT'S SO FUNNY. I NEVER KNEW SONA. WAS THE super funny one, but [laughter]. she is. She's like the funniest one on this. podcast and she was just Conan's. assistant. I'm a kind of a deep. [laughter] fan. I go really deep on this. stuff. What? You know who I am? >> Oh, yeah, you're hilarious. I remember.

you were on the tour and you've done a. lot of funny videos with Conan. [laughter] I follow you religiously. And. hey, shout out to the Armenian. community. Oh my god. I read your book. >> [laughter]. >> And Michael, could you just lay back a. little bit? Sure. Okay. So uh I'll be over here. [laughter]. Oh, he just walked out of the room. backwards. Something he does. You know, with the Beatles we just sang the songs. We didn't do all the leaping and the. jumping around, but. he did it really well. Um, so listen, David Melman uh do you mind if we switch.

to Zoom for a second because my line. isn't so good. Can we switch over to. Zoom? Can we just uh. Oh, you, handsome. Thank you. >> [laughter]. >> Thank you, Paul. Oh, much appreciated. Does that change your opinion on You got. like a golden glow and I don't fancy I. don't fancy the fellas too much. But I got to say, you're a very good. looking. You might not be a lawyer. I've heard. it's in question. [laughter]. You're a very good looking fella. Thank. you. Does that change your uh Oh, not at. all. No. The law's the law. [laughter]. Do you mind undoing THAT ONE BUTTON? >> [clears throat].

>> JUST UNDO IT JUST a little bit. David Whatever it takes to get these. cleared. Okay. >> [laughter]. >> So you know what I would say You know. what I'd say. Whatever it takes. >> Now the lawyer's the funny one. The. assistant's the funny one. >> [laughter]. >> The lawyer's the funny one. And where is. Conan in all this? He's been quiet for a. while. >> [laughter]. >> Haven't heard him. I guess he makes all the money. He's out. counting the money. How I got me some. pounds. I got me some pence. >> [laughter]. >> Uh David, I got to go, but no, you can't. have Let It Be. It's no way. It's a. special song to me. Unless it's. something Conan wants. Then I'll do it.

instantly. Well, there you go. Okay. Much appreciated. We are going to send. you a sample, Paul. of Conan singing Let It Be in his form. and I think we're going to change your. tune. >> [laughter]. >> You know what? I just say. cut to the chase, David. I give you oral. permission right now and I'd like to. give you oral another way. If it's okay If it's okay If it's okay, I'll also like to from this point on. give Conan a songwriting credit. It's. Lennon and McCartney and O'Brien on Let. It Be. Fantastic.

>> Just I think he's what he's doing is a. bang-up job. He's surrounded himself by. people who are very funny. Let me Let me. write I'm writing this down. Yeah, Paul. Thank you. Well, anyway, I'm going to. sign off now and turn it back over to. Conan. He's. What a career. What a career. Oh, fantastic. I love it. Yeah, he's great. [clears throat]. >> He's amazing. >> I'm going to go now. Okay, thank you. Okay, doopy doo. Oh, that's a good song. I think I'll write that down. Doopy doo. >> [laughter]. >> I think it'll be pretty good. Doopy doo, doopy doo. Let's put that out. Okay, I'm back. >> Okay. I would say that would get get me. nowhere and I'll tell you why. Because. it's oral. No. Oh. Because it's Paul.

>> Oh, I see. You need it from the actual. people who. >> No, if he wrote you know, we need the. publishers. So we need the writers. So I. assume Paul and who else wrote Let It. Be? Help me out here. Well, it's. I mean McCartney wrote it, but it's back. in the Lennon McCartney days. Sure. Okay. So we would go to Lennon's estate, right? We'd have to go to Paul. Okay, Paul's great. Let's do it. Then we would. have to go to John Lennon's estate. Then. we would have to go to the record label. and say, "Hey, we would like to do. this.". >> What a nightmare. >> It's a nightmare and I'll tell you what. to I hate your life. I mean and you If I. say something I wish you had a better.

life cuz this is an awful job. Well, you. know what? It's probably You know what? It's actually probably something because. I'll tell you why I like doing it. Because if if you come to me and say, "We want to do this." I think my joy is. to try to make that happen. It really. is. Like I. >> for you. It is I I really because once. we get down to step 12 and I can I have. not been able to convince you to do. something else. and you say, "Look, Conan wants to do. this." Then you just try to make it. work. >> This is amazing. And I can't stop my. money. Can I just chime in with a. genuine statement that David is a to his.

credit and this is he everyone loves him. for a lot of reasons, but one of the. reasons is that he is a genuine problem. solver. Anytime you come to him with an. issue. >> to say something that's not allowed. here. at Team Coco. There's a lot of. people around here who just want to. and moan and make problems. You. are the rare person who actually gets in. there and tries to solve a problem. >> You could get rid of a problem. a real. morale booster for the team. Oh, I think. [laughter] I. You know, I want to call this company. Deadweight. 90% is just pure [laughter] rot. You.

know, and and everyone's just bitching. and moaning all the time and Jeff's back. is out again and you know, whatever. I. don't want to hear it. Everyone shut up. Can you just if he does do something and. someone calls and says, "Hey, he used. our music." Can you just be like, "No, he didn't." Yes. What about What about. lying? Yeah, just lying or hanging up on. them or like just avoiding it. completely. >> what are you talking about? This is a. pizza place. You know, that kind of. thing. >> [laughter]. >> So So you're saying that. a podcast that goes out to what? A. million? We get what? Please don't say.

way higher than I know. Four million. Whatever it is. I don't really follow the numbers or. whatever you listen, but I just. [laughter] I know it's a lot. You're one of the biggest podcasts in. the world. >> Okay. Biggest podcast in the world and. you're saying that wasn't Conan. Yeah. Right? >> Yeah. I don't know if that would fly. Okay. I would do. I want to say that. I have. just made some jokes today about oh, you're not a real lawyer. You are a. lawyer. You're a terrific lawyer. We're. lucky to have you. Um, I'm going to. double down on maybe the best looking.

guy on staff. Sorry, Blay, but. he This is a I mean, Jesus, Mary and. Joseph, you know. Thank you. I try to. get on as many Zooms and meet in You. know, it does help the conversation. It. does help the conversation. It does. Now, I don't know what's going on in. your personal life. WHAT'S HAPPENING. THERE? >> [laughter]. >> STOP. WHAT? YOU CAN'T ask these. questions. He's. the lawyer. Hey, guess what? If you. don't answer me, I'll fire you. >> [laughter]. >> What are you GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT? >> YOU WHAT I'LL DO with that. I actually. work for SiriusXM now. Not Team Coco. I.

don't know if you can fire me, Conan. I'm making a phone call to Mr. Scott. Greenstein. And you also mentioned it's. okay for you guys to have a. relationship. Hey, if you work for SiriusXM, we can. have a relationship. Um Uh my personal life. out of control? David, I applaud you. I applaud your. good works, your golden hue. and everything that you do for this. podcast. He He's like a RENAISSANCE HE'S.

A RENAISSANCE PAINTING. I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY LET HIM OUT of the. Louvre without setting off an alarm. Um, David Melman, our thanks to you. Thanks. for clearing this up and I guess we just. clearing it up. Well, [laughter] we. can't sing a song. What? I I'm no closer. to understanding anything. We can't do. anything. It's good though. I think. that's where we should leave it because. we have plausible deniability. If he. educates us too much, I consulted my. lawyer and I'm still confused. What are. you going to do? Sue me? Uh-oh. David, thank you. Yes. Uh.

and. >> [laughter]. >> You, sir, you stole our money and it's. here on this podcast and you go, "I wasn't listening to that. I was too. busy sexually harassing my lawyer.". >> [laughter]. >> That's your defense. Sir, I was busy. >> [laughter]. >> making my lawyer very uncomfortable. So you don't have a leg to stand on. And. what a leg. >> [laughter]. >> He didn't even I didn't get STARTED ON. HIS CALVES.

All right, peace out, Tupac. But not. going to sing any of the song.