Conan & Taylor Tomlinson Learn About Flavor Science | Conan O'Brien Needs A Fan

I have so many questions for you because. the only thing I know about you. Jeremy, I know two things. I know three. things. You're from Boston, you're now. living in San Francisco, and it says. here you're a flavor scientist. >> All of those are true. I have my Red Sox. mug that I'm drinking out of to prove. I'm from uh Boston. >> Very good. >> And yeah. >> They don't just hand those out. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> They don't, yeah. >> No, they they do. They they hand them. out. [laughter].

>> Um yeah, I'm a flavor scientist in San. Francisco. >> Okay. Now, there's so much to talk about. here because I really don't know what a. flavor scientist does. Taylor, I can't. speak for you. Do you know what a flavor. scientist does? >> That's what I went to school for. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, I'M VERY FAMILIAR. >> YOU KNOW WHAT? I DID know that. I. [laughter] can't believe I forgot that. >> No, I didn't know I did not know the. term flavor scientist. That's one of. those jobs that I feel like when you get. high and you're eating snacks, you go,

"WHOSE JOB IS THIS? >> [laughter]. >> HOW DO I get that job?". So, I feel like I'm so excited to talk. to someone who [laughter] has that job. Like, how did you get that job? >> Yeah, Jeremy, what happened? >> Yeah, yeah. >> [laughter]. >> So, I can kind of break it down for you. guys. Um I moved out to California in. 2014 for my PhD in physical physical. chemistry at Berkeley. And while I was. at Berkeley, I was using a bunch of.

high-end analytical instrumentation to. look at tailpipe emissions from cars and. to look at um emissions coming off of. >> a hobby or part of your work? >> [laughter]. >> This was. It was part of my work. I wrote up a. dissertation. I wrote up like papers on. this and um. partway through, I kind of realized that. the same technology that I was using is. also used in perfumes and fragrances and.

flavors to identify those molecules are. responsible for individual flavors and. sensations. And I've always loved. cooking and mixology and like I make my. own cocktail bitters and limoncello. So. I really wanted to do something where I. could kind of combine the science with. my passion for food and baking. And. being a flavor scientist seemed like. that. perfect opportunity. >> All right, we have I think a photo of. you doing your work. I think we're we're.

going to show it. There you are. >> Okay. >> Um boy, [laughter] does that look That's. me. >> What? All right. >> So uh. >> Did you sign off on [laughter] this. picture, Jeremy? YOU'RE ACTING LIKE. >> I HAD. >> NO ONE JEREMY, NO one told you about it? >> Jeremy, you supplied this picture. >> [laughter]. >> So only yourself to blame. >> Yeah. >> Jeremy goes, I thought that WAS BETWEEN. US. >> [laughter]. >> I DIDN'T KNOW. >> UH WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE, JEREMY? Your. nose is attached to a device.

>> Yes. So um this is an analytical. technique called. gas or GCO. >> Yep. That's how I call it. Yeah, I call. it GCO. [laughter]. >> Yes. And. the different flavors go through the. instrumentation. We're able to identify. what molecule they're they pertain to. and they also come out of this sniffing. port. So that is me sniffing individual. flavor molecules and then writing down.

what they smell like. If it's butter or. grassy or chocolate. And then I can look. at the data afterwards and be like, oh, this I got a butter flavor at this. particular time. And this compound came. out of the instrumentation at this. particular time. Therefore, this. compound has a butter So no, you look so. amazed. I love that. >> I am legitimately fascinated. >> you imagine eating Doritos with this. guy? >> [laughter]. >> The rest of us are just munching away on.

Cool Ranch and he and and Jeremy's here. He's got. vials and dials hooked up to his nipples. AND HE'S GOING, "YES!". >> [laughter]. >> SO UNTRUE. >> THIS IS so cool. >> It's amazing. >> Do you have something that you smell in. between smells to like cleanse the. palate? >> Very good. >> Yeah, yeah. That's a great That's a. great question. So, in tasting, if. you're doing like a tasting sensory, you. want to. rinse with lukewarm water because cold. water numbs your taste buds, so it's not.

as sensitive. Or you should have like an. apple slice or a saltine cracker or. something very kind of bland or fresh. And then for smelling, you want to use. the back of your hand or like your. shoulder or something. Or you can use. coffee beans. You may have seen that at. like wineries or something. They'll have. like coffee beans for you to like smell. to kind of cleanse your nose. >> Yeah. >> What if the best thing to use was a pair. of 19th century underwear? >> [laughter]. >> Women's underwear. And it unfortunately.

was the best thing to use, so you had to. take this fierce sniff. >> [laughter]. >> of 1895 panties. For some reason we don't understand. >> Do you go for coffee beans or your hand. usually? Like do you Do you have a. little coffee. >> usually go for my hand. I have like the. back of the shoulder or the back of the. the. Yeah, like your wrist and you you can. just like sniff it that way and. cleanse your palate. >> Okay. >> Um let's get off the sniffing for a sec. cuz it's. >> [laughter]. >> Okay. It's taking me down a dark road. >> Well, I mean I had one more question.

about the sniffing and it's appropriate. >> for it. And if you you get to I have six. MORE AFTER THIS. >> [laughter]. >> HAVE you always had like a particularly. strong sense of smell? Could anyone do. this? >> The answer is yes and yes. Um I love. cooking and I love like flavor that's. been big part of my life since like. college, graduate school. So I do have. like a certain knack for it, but this is. also trainable. Like if you know you're. going to be tasting like. the same thing kind of over and over.

again, you are trained on what is it. supposed to taste like, these are the. flavors, these are the texture. And then. once you know, you have that kind of. authentic reference in your head, you. can then do studies where what if we. change like a new flavor or added like a. new ingredient? Does this change it? And. you are now trained to know like, oh. there is a difference between this and. the control. So part of it is definitely. trainable like over time. A lot of it's. just repetition. >> Okay. It is amazing.

when you. eat a snack these days and. you know that this is not chicken, this. is a pretzel, but. >> Mhm. >> it says chicken flavored pretzel sticks. and you bite into it and you swear. you're eating chicken. >> Yeah. >> because it's made of essence of chicken. or you've just chemically recreated the. the same molecular structure of what a. chicken tastes like? >> So in those examples, it's less the. molecular structure of chicken and it's.

more just um. the overall kind of like sensation or I. wouldn't say like vibe of what chicken. is. You have those like umami [laughter]. notes, those slightly meaty notes. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So you're a vibeologist. >> [laughter]. >> You find out later on it's all. vibeology. >> [laughter]. >> Those machines just say good vibe or bad. vibe. >> mixture. Yeah. >> Cuz you worked on Impossible Nuggets. >> Yeah, is that right? It says it. >> Yeah. >> You worked on Impossible Nuggets.

>> Yep. I was one of the people who worked. on the flavor systems for that, did a. lot of. sensory studies and optimization to get. that chicken flavor like right so. consumers to like increase the consumer. acceptance of the of the product. >> Crazy. Yeah, do the chicken people hate. you? >> [laughter]. >> I wouldn't say that. >> chicken want your head? >> There's a bounty. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> On his head from big chicken. >> There's a. There's a a chicken out there with a.

high-powered rifle. >> [laughter]. >> No, the chicken likes him. The The. chickens are very pro Jeremy. >> Unless it's a self-hating chicken. >> [laughter]. >> It wants to give its wife to bring. others joy. It says here over a period of 6 months. you did over 100 sensory tastings. Cake, brownies, cookies, cupcakes, meringues, mayonnaise, buttercream. I would think. that your brain would just go into. overload at some point and just not be. able to tell one thing from another.

>> Well, that's also a really great point. We do. have to like limit your sensory. tastings. So, in a given day, a sensory scientist or a panelist should. only probably do like 1 to 2 hours of. tasting cuz then you just get taster. fatigue and you have to limit the number. of samples that you have. So, in a good. like sensory study. >> Taster fatigue is very real. >> It actually is, Taylor. You'd be. surprised. >> you. [laughter] People in the room are. chuckling. >> Well, it's just Blay. Everyone else was listening and and.

showing you a lot of respect and Blay. was giggling. Um. >> No, I actually that I I was going to ask. about kind of along that line with the. taster fatigue. Are there certain. flavors. that Are you pretty open-minded like you. like everything like you'll eat anything. or there's certain flavors that you hate. that you're like someone else has to do. this one cuz this makes me sick? >> I'm pretty good. Like I definitely have. tasted a lot of weird flavors and kind. of odd things over the over the years.

There are definitely some other. individuals where if it's like super. oxidized or super rancid, they taste it. and you'll hear like gagging or you'll. hear like just nope from like their. little corner. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Like okay, maybe they can maybe they. should skip like the next round of. tastings here. >> Is there a flavor that no one really. likes? >> That's a good question. >> Yes, uh skatole, s k a t o l. That is. feces. >> I was going to say. I was like that's. what I have a personal question. >> Wait, you're just going to skip over. that? [laughter].

>> Sorry. Well. >> How many times have you tasted feces? >> I thought. >> How long did it take you to come to that. conclusion? Let's give it one MORE TRY. >> TAYLOR'S LIKE [laughter] YEP, OKAY, ANYWAY. >> Jeremy's got all over his mouth. WE'RE GOING TO TRY THIS ONE MORE TIME. [laughter]. >> WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE. I THINK WE DID. >> [laughter]. >> I HAD an I had an intern once who was. using that compound as like an authentic. standard and she accidentally spilled. some on her lab coat and for the for the.

rest of the day it was she smelled like. poop. >> I want to write that. in. >> I think she made that up. >> [laughter]. >> I think she said oops. I poured some. skatole. SHE HER PANTS. >> [laughter]. >> THAT IS THE OLDEST COVER EVER. >> [laughter]. >> I got to remember that next time I. my pants. DAMN MY VIAL OF skatole must have. fractured. >> What is the What is the skatole for. then?

>> If you're looking at like um. different meat products, usually animal. based. There's some like trace amounts. of like if you look at like okay, that's. rabbit. It's a bunch of flavors, a bunch. of different things. >> Yeah. >> It's also the base flavor for I think. Oreos. They start [laughter] WITH JUST. >> HOW DARE YOU? >> NO, THEY START I'M SAYING THEY START. WITH. >> HIS EYEBROWS WENT UP. >> THEY START WITH SKATOLE. >> [laughter]. >> DID I HIT SOMETHING, JEREMY? Admit it. >> Nope. >> Nope, you're good. >> ARE WE EATING POOP BY. so many Oreos? >> No, no, I'm just saying it's the base.

flavor that and then they add a few. other things and it tastes amazing, but. it's mostly. >> What is it in? >> [laughter]. >> What snacks is it in? >> That I don't actually know. I just know. that um. >> Someone's media trained. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. He took another BIG SIP. >> I DON'T KNOW. Big sip. >> No, like um it's really cool because. when you take these. >> [laughter]. >> you can like get all you can look at. these different compounds and like part.

per billion, part per trillion amounts. So, it's kind of like um it's an. interesting study where just because. some a compound like skatole exists, it. might not be odor active. There's a. thing in flavor science called your odor. activity value or OAV. And if it's above. a certain concentration, then you get. the overall feeling and like the. sensation of it. But if you're able to. quantify this compound like skatole at. like a part per trillion or part per. billion level, it's so amount is so.

tiny, it's not going to really. >> You know what I'm going to do? >> have the analytical power to identify. that. >> Jeremy, next time I'm at a wine tasting. I'm going to take a little a really. fancy I'm going to take a little sip and. go, "I'm getting I'm GETTING SKATOLE.". >> [laughter]. >> PEOPLE WOULD KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING. ABOUT, I THINK. YEAH. >> I I had a question about and again, it's. a little personal. So, if you don't want. to say I don't know, are you in a. relationship? >> I am not. I am currently single. >> Are you on apps with flavor scientist? Cuz if I saw flavor scientist on a.

profile, I would be like, "What is. that?". >> It does work. It's definitely a good. opener. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah. People definitely ask. me that and um. sometimes during a date though, it turns. into more of a job interview. They just. like keep on asking questions about the. flavor science and I'm like, "Let's talk. about you." Or like there's other areas. of my life. We're going for like a walk. and it's like, "Oh, what do you think. this like cookie taste like?" And I'm. like, >> [laughter]. >> "Tastes tastes like a like a cookie you. got from a big shop.

>> [laughter]. >> It's good. >> Can't you just like me for me? >> Not my flavor abilities. >> [laughter]. >> No, that's I mean that was my like first. question. >> fun, yeah. >> Cuz when you see people with like cool. jobs on dating apps, it's like kind of. really exciting. >> Well, no, that's definitely a. conversation starter, yeah. Especially. in San Francisco where a lot of people. kind of work in tech or AI. It's like. this kind of career is a little bit. niche. >> I think this is tech. >> I think it's tech, but it's also you're.

a mixologist, you bake, um you've got. that cool Red Sox mug and those as we. established are hard to get. Yep. Unless. you live anywhere near the East Coast or. the West Coast. But. >> [laughter]. >> um. But no, I would say I I would think that. that would be fascinating to people. It's fascinating to me. That's why I'm. really happy we got a chance to talk to. you because this is cool. It's such a. big part of our lives and the way that. uh chemically. um flavors can be created.

uh in so many different ways, and we're. not even thinking about it. We're not. even think We're eating these foods, we're eating these snacks, we're tasting. things, and all these different parts of. our brain are lighting up, and it's been. a lot of times manipulated. >> Yeah, it's like super interesting, and. the reason why I love this job is like. the goal is to bring like joy to people. through flavor. People love like new. foods or new beverages or just like. exotic like, you know, we see it coming. in from different areas of the world.

with like boba tea or like Dubai. chocolate. These are all like different. flavors that are being introduced in. like the US and like vice versa, and. it's just a really cool experience to. understand where they come from and then. to create a product or an ingredient. that people want to use and have like a. good verse good versatility, and all. that is just you know bringing that. excitement of food and flavor to. everybody. >> Now could you use and I'm going. somewhere with this. Could you use your.

skill. to make a deadly poison taste. taste nice. Do you know what I mean? Could you take what what. what is the most you have somebody. [laughter] in mind. For example, I've always heard that. cyanide it's very bitter. Could you make. cyanide taste like a bubble gum flavored. cyanide? >> Oh yeah, that would be quite simple. actually. >> [laughter]. >> How do I reach you. independently of this podcast? >> Well,

I was going to maybe save this at the. end but I know that you like to go to. Outside Lands every year. in San Francisco. >> I was just there. Yeah. >> I went Yeah, I was I was there too. I. think I saw like an interview with you. watching Wet Leg and I was in that same. crowd. So maybe if you want to go to. Outside Lands next year or you're in the. area. >> No, this killing has to happen sooner. than that. >> [laughter]. >> I need this person dead much faster. >> Oh my bad. Okay. >> Okay, we'll we'll figure it out. I'll. I'll just get to San Francisco. I'll. find you. And Sona, you might be able to.

speak to this because you uh. >> love food. >> Well, also you're Armenian. You're a. proud Armenian and there are very strong. flavors associated with your cuisine. Is. that right? >> Yeah. >> What would you say are the big flavors? >> I mean we use you know the the spice. sumac a lot. We use a lot of um. uh that's all I've got. >> [laughter]. >> A lot of cumin. That's a lot of you know. it's it's. very filled with different. spices. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a lot of. tahini.

Um. but you're saying your upbringing and my. upbringing is different. >> We had no flavors when I was growing up. >> [laughter]. >> Food had no flavor. We had butter butter. we put butter on things but I think that. was and salt. But those were the flavors. that I grew up with. [laughter]. There was potato and there was fried. ham. Then there was more potato and more. fried ham. And [laughter] then there was. fried ham and then there was potato. >> Yeah, mine's different. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I had a heart attack when I was nine. >> [laughter]. >> They had to crack my chest.

>> Taylor, did you grow up with a lot of. flavors? >> No. No. No one can I can't cook. Like my. my [clears throat] parents would like. assemble food like that more so. >> [laughter]. >> than like cook, I would say. >> When you say assemble, well, that's. let's What do you mean? Let's push them closer together to the. center of the table. >> There's four cans and the contents of. those [laughter] cans need to be heated. up. And that takes some time and that's. cooking, I guess.

>> [laughter]. >> Jeremy, if I just opened it and I like. SpaghettiOs. This is no diss on. SpaghettiOs, but if I opened a can of. SpaghettiOs in your presence. >> [laughter]. >> Mhm. >> This episode is sponsored by. SpaghettiOs. >> I wish. >> [laughter]. >> But let's say. I was hanging out with you and I emptied. some SpaghettiOs into a bowl. And then I handed it to you. Could you. using lab equipment and various. chemicals. make that taste remarkably.

different or you know what I mean? Could. you could you really change the game for. that bowl of SpaghettiOs? >> I think so, yeah. Like um. I think it would help if you kind of. guided us and like guided me in getting. what kind of flavor you would like it to. >> Vanilla. >> taste like. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. Yeah, you can definitely I mean, you can. do that in your own kitchen. Just take. like some vanilla extract. >> Yeah, I just pour extract in there and I. eat it. >> Do you. Do you have a certain food or snack or. anything that you're that you've worked. on that you're most proud of?

Is it Impossible Nugget? >> The Impossible one I'm pretty proud of. Yeah. >> Impossible Nuggets, cuz I think we all. know Impossible Nuggets is incredible. Besides Impossible. >> I was I was very proud of that. It's. really cool to I mean it sounds cliche. but like you're at a grocery store just. doing your thing and then you see. somebody like reach for your product. They look at it and then they put it in. your in their grocery cart and I'm just. like. >> Most of us haven't had that experience. where we someone see someone picking up.

Impossible Nuggets and go I did that. I. [laughter] I think that's amazing. They're Those are in movie theaters. >> Sailor. >> Like those are those are good. >> Yeah, when we got that partnership it. was super fun. Yeah, it was really cool. >> They're impressive. >> And what is in there? If it's not. chicken, I know that, what is in there? >> So the main protein is soy and then we. add various. yeast extracts and glutamates and make. it kind of more savory and like umami.

tasting and yeah, just you know, using. science to create a new product that. will give somebody the same like earlier. vibe of chicken. And then a lot of it is. just the scale up too where you get just. because I did it on a bench in like my. test kitchen like we're talking about. like, you know, millions of chicken. nuggets that all have to have the same. flavor and the same texture. So. >> They're good. >> They're pretty good. >> You should do a taste test or you put.

them out and see if people like them. >> I eat meat but for a I've done stints of. veganism and I have like vegan friends. and stuff and I like I'll eat Impossible. Nuggets sometimes. >> just because I think they're. >> I play music with I play music with. these guys in this band and all of them. to a one they don't touch meat and I'm. always wanting to they're always taking. me to you know, some vegan restaurant. and saying what whatever you want Conan. and you know, it's. it's it's not my vibe but maybe I can.

change. Maybe I can start eating these. Impossible Nuggets. >> Yeah, they're really good. Very. impressive. >> And we have a uh spicy version as well. So, there's like the plain potato. nuggets and the spicy ones. I personally. like the spicy ones myself. That's my uh. go-to. >> Okay. >> Um hey Jeremy, do you have a question. for Conan? >> Yeah. So, um. we were talking about kind of flavor and. um products earlier and I know there's a. bunch of weird flavors in like potato. chips these days. You have like maple or.

bay crab seasoning or whatever. It's not. just like blue ranch and nacho. So, in. your kind of average day everyday. snacking, Conan, what new flavor would. you want to have in that product? >> Well, I open this question I open this. question to you, too, Taylor. So, this. won't just BE MY QUESTION. >> [laughter]. >> HOW DID YOU ALL DO IT IN IMPROV? HOW DID YOU DO IT? CONAN NEEDS MORE TIME. TO ANSWER.

I'M HAPPY TO GO FOR IT. I'm happy to go. for it. Try to be inclusive [laughter]. as a host. But, >> I'm curious to hear your answer, too. >> You know what's funny? I know that. theoretically I'm supposed to love. vinegar flavor, but I just don't. So, you know, when people say, "Oh my. god, these vinegar chips are amazing.". And my wife likes that flavor, my kids. like that flavor, and I just like I I I. just doesn't It's tastes off to me. So, I haven't been able to go with that. Um.

I am just such a sucker for any kind of. any kind of barbecuey sweetness that has. a little honey in it. That's my go-to. That's my jam. In terms of a new flavor. that I've never tried before, eel. >> Ooh. >> I've never tried eel. I don't like eel, but uh I'm interested in trying. something that has an eel kind of. flavor. >> I love eel and I would love an eel. potato chip. >> Eel chips. That's what I want to see you. working on. >> Okay.

Yeah, it's like some unagi kind of. thing. Okay, I like that. I can I can do. that. Yeah, it's delicious. >> Well, sir, it has been an honor talking. to you. You're very smart, you're very. accomplished. I like what you're doing, you're making people happy. And so I I. salute you and I can't wait to see what. you come up with next. And this is not a. plug, we're making no money. I'm going. to try these Impossible Nuggets cuz I. haven't had them and I try it because. then I can eat with my bandmates, finally. >> I think you'll be impressed. I really. do. >> Yeah, okay.

Maybe it is an ad now. We'll see. >> I know, >> [laughter]. >> I REALLY DO. >> SOMEONE CALL IMPOSSIBLE NUGGETS. >> I DID COMMERCIAL work for. >> want $15,000. in a bag. >> We're fans, Jeremy. We're just fans. >> We're fans, Jeremy. >> We're fans of your work. >> You're a fan of me, I'm a fan of you. It. works out. >> Thank you very much, sir. Take care. >> Great, thank you. You too, Conan. >> And make that poison. All right, bye. >> [laughter].