Zorro! That guy with the sword! | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[music]. >> Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. >> [music]. >> Olé and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. and there's Chuck and [music] Jerry's. here too. And we call Jerry Zorro all. the time because Zorro. is Spanish for fox. And this is Stuff You Should Know. >> [music]. >> Did you uh has Zorro ever said olé? Is that a Zorro thing? >> No, that is a um bumbling stereotypical.

American thing to say. >> Oh, I would have said. wee wee wee. >> Oh, yeah. That would have been much better. >> I don't think so. Cuz I I didn't even do a Z. I just did. three lines. I did it wrong. >> [laughter]. >> So, yeah, we're talking Zorro today. And. I have a question for you, Chuck. >> No, boy. You know, people are before you. go, >> Uh-huh. >> there's uh actual Reddit threads about.

people loving the age-old joshism. of things like. have you ever eaten a peanut or. whatever? >> [laughter]. >> Have you ever seen a grown man naked? >> All right, fire away. What's this one? >> Chuck. >> Mhm. [clears throat]. >> Have you ever heard of Zorro? [laughter]. It's such a letdown after that was that. build up you just. >> Oh, no. Anything else would have been a. letdown. That was perfect. Uh yeah, I. know Zorro and I guess I was into Zorro. at one point because.

>> Mhm. >> after. this is like an hour ago, after two days. of kind of looking into this, I. remembered suddenly out of the blue that. I went as Zorro for Halloween when I was. a kid one year. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> That's pretty great. >> I was Zorro one year. And then I also. remember I. I'm I'm sure it's not a movie that uh I. I hate the term age as well, but. I'm sure there's all sorts of terrible. uh. stereotypical homophobic jokes. in it, but boy, I was a kid, I loved.

Zorro the Gay Blade a lot. >> I think it's one big homophobic joke, isn't it? >> Well, I mean the plot is that Zorro is. injured. and his twin gay brother. shows up to town to take care of. business. >> In what's his brother's name? >> Oh [clears throat] god, Bunny. Periwinkle? No, it isn't. >> Bunny Wigglesworth. >> Bunny Wigglesworth. So dumb. I would like to check it out.

again. I wonder if there is any sort of. forward-thinking humor at all. >> I don't get the impression there is. I. watched it when I was younger too, but. everything was just. right over my head. I was like, that guy. talks funny basically. I was about that. age. So I went back and read the Roger. Ebert like 1981 review of it. >> Oh, what Ebert think? >> He thought it was pretty dumb. He said. that like they [laughter] played it in. all the wrong ways, that it could have. been funnier, but the whole premise was. just not good because.

it would none of it was played straight. It was all played jokey and that they. didn't pull it off, you know? So he gave. it a two out of four, so I guess he. halfway liked it. >> Yeah. Well, maybe he liked the the one. brother cuz George Hamilton played both. >> Uh yeah. Yeah, maybe maybe so. He's like, I liked the Bunny. Wigglesworth character, but the Zorro. >> Uh and then I was also. in the theaters for the 1998 Antonio. Banderas version and really enjoyed it.

So I guess I was into Zorro at one. point. >> Was that because you had seen Desperado, the sequel to El Mariachi, and were. like, I like this Antonio Banderas cat? >> Which one was first? Was that Zorro? >> Zorro came after Desperado, like three. years ago. >> it really? Oh, okay. I mean I liked all. that stuff. That was peak Antonio. Banderas for me. >> Yeah, I think Desperado launched Antonio. Banderas to his peak if I'm not. mistaken. >> Great movie. I loved it. >> So good.

So good. Although I've always felt bad. for the guy who was in the first El. Mariachi that Robert Rodriguez traded up. to um. Antonio Banderas from. >> Yeah, and it was a weird sort of sequel, sort of remake, but I liked them both. El Mariachi is great. >> I don't know if I ever saw it. >> It's It's really good, and he made it. for like $8,000 or something. >> No, I know that's like the legendary. indie film movie. production story. That's what I was. after story. >> You got there.

>> Uh so yeah, let's get back to Zorro. And. And Antonio Banderas wasn't the biggest. tangent we've ever been on because he. did play Zorro, and he did kind of bring. Zorro back for a whole new generation. But Zorro, my friend, has been around. for more than 100 years. Zorro recently. celebrated his 107th birthday, Chuck. >> That's right because it came about. for the first time in a pulp fiction. serial in 1919 called The Curse of. Capistrano in All Story Weekly, written.

by. Johnston McCulley. Not what I expected. >> No, Irish-American journalist. I think. he was a political journalist, and he. just wrote fiction on the side. And he had basically. I guess heard stories and legends of. real-life bandits and banditos. in California's history. Specifically, there's a whole big podcast just waiting. for us to do. on the transition from.

Spanish-Mexican rule to. Anglo-American rule. >> Yeah. >> of California because that was a rough. and ugly transition, it turns out. And. that's essentially where Zorro takes. place. Because of those transitions, because of all the injustice, it was a little bit mixed and different, muddled up, I guess, as as we'll see by. McCulley. But the stuff that he based it. on was taking place around that time, and it actually a lot of this stuff did.

happen in real real although there was. no actual Zorro. >> Yeah, for sure. I don't think we have to go over all of. these like people that it was perhaps. based on, but. unless you want to, but we should. definitely talk about. Joaquin Murrieta. because that actually shows up in the. Antonio Banderas movie version. >> Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's me, huh? So [laughter] Joaquin Murrieta is. >> Wait, did you not get your script this.

week? >> No, [laughter] I didn't I didn't get the. What do they call the last minute. revisions? >> Sides. >> Sides. I didn't get the sides. [laughter]. >> All right. >> Momo Adam. >> Oh, no. >> Um, so Joaquin Murrieta, that's my. probably my favorite first name in the. whole world. >> I like it. >> Uh, he may not have actually existed. He. was definitely a figure from legend. There is some support that he actually. that he he might have existed, but for. the most part, everything we know about.

him is legend and then was based on a. fiction novel that was based on the. legend. But the legend goes essentially. like this, that he was born in Sonora in. Mexico in 1830 and when he was 18, he. went to California to become a minor. 49er, I guess, in the Gold Rush. And he became one of the one of many. Mexican prospectors who had a claim and. and had his own little mine and did his.

mining there and everything was going. just fine for two years until California. became a US state and the Anglo. Americans were like, this is our state. now. Give us your mine. >> Yeah. I mean, this stuff has been going. on a long time. All the way back in. 1850, they said, hey, even though you've been. here forever, we are here now. So that makes you a. foreigner even though you're in your. homeland. And so we're going to pass the. Foreign Miners Act. and that basically. rids us of you because what it did is it.

required non-citizens to pay a lot of. money to be able to mine in the state of. California, which, you know, imagine it. wasn't every every last Mexican. prospector, but probably most of them. had to hit the road. And as we'll see. why this is, you know, possibly a Zorro. influence, uh. Murrieta was one of those guys and he. was like, you know, it's kind of a Robin. Hood type story. He was like, you know. what? >> Right. >> I'm not taking this sitting down or. standing up. I'm going to start robbing. you guys.

uh for a little payback. And the. governor saw this and was like, all. right, well, now you have a price on. your head. And. you know, depends on whether you not you. believe this is true, but there was a. California Ranger, like this is the real. historical record. >> Mhm. >> In 1853, a California Ranger said, you. know what? I've got him right here uh. but part of him only. I've got his head. actually and it's here in this pickle. jar and this is Murrieta. >> Yeah. And everybody was like, that's. gross. You carry that around with you? He's like, yeah, check it out. >> Yeah.

>> Um and yes, that is the only thing we. know that's on the historical record. The governor did put a bounty on his. head and a Ranger did have a head in a. pickle jar and that he said was. Murrieta's, right? That's all we know. Everything else we just said was was. legend. And the reason um his legend. continued is that in 1854, a novel came. out that basically um. turned him into a folk hero. This. legend, possibly real person, Joaquin.

Murrieta, became a folk hero because of. the novel and then because the novel was. written in 1854, as time wore on, stuff. people knew from the novel became. embedded into the legend and maybe was. taken as true. And um that just the fact. that he existed we know likely um. influenced Mccully in creating Zorro, like for certain. That's the guy who's. most associated with him. I do feel like. we should talk about um Solomon Pico.

though real quick cuz he was he. definitely did live and he was a BA. >> All right. So Pico was born in the San. Juan Valley in. and he was. uh actually cousin of Pio Pico, who was. California's last Mexican governor. >> Right. >> And he was given a land parcel and this, you know, like we said, this is all all. true stuff. He was given a land parcel. in 1844. and lost that land when that transition. that you were talking about happened. from you know Mexican.

uh California to Anglo California. And. he did like. Zorro would later do and like Murrieta. did, he's like, all right, it's. vengeance time. And not only that is I'm. going to wear your ears around my neck. in a necklace. >> Yeah, he's known as like probably the. most violent outlaw or bandito who ever. lived, who actually who did live. So he. would just basically go around killing. Anglo Americans as he came across them. And that actually led to his execution. because he saw what he thought was a a.

white American guy in a restaurant and. he went up to him and stabbed him to. death and that guy was like, I'm. British gov. And that was the end of. Pico. So those two guys and by the way, we just spoke about Pico in a very crisp. and economical manner. Chuck, congratulations on that. >> And I think Pico's last words uh was he. executed for that? >> Yeah. >> I think his last words were, what's the. difference? >> [laughter].

>> So yeah, so those two guys and then. probably at least a couple others, at. the very least their legends and. stories. Somehow Macaulay uh Macaulay. heard about these and that's what he. based Zorro on. I think that's the. upshot of what we're trying to say here. >> Yeah, and as we'll see and and we'll. kind of get to why in a minute also the. 1905 novel The Scarlet Pimpernel. >> Yeah. >> Uh I've definitely seen that that's. pretty much verified by Macaulay. himself. But uh. >> still alive? >> No, I don't I don't think Macaulay is still.

alive. >> Okay. >> But he verified it when he was alive. >> I got you. >> His last words were, it was partially The Scarlet Pimpernel. >> [laughter]. >> And his widow went, I knew it. I knew. it. >> So for his book that he wrote, The Curse. of Capistrano, you mentioned earlier. that he you know, took some sort of. license. I guess you know, it wasn't. really licensed cuz he was just making a. story up based on legend, but he set it. a few decades earlier before it wasn't.

during that transition from Mexican. California to Anglo California. It was. still a Spanish colony at the time that. he set the first Zorro story. And in. this case, he really changed it up. because Zorro is defending. the indigenous population there from. Spanish authorities, not Anglo. Americans. >> Right. So. that makes Zorro even more noble because. he's not indigenous. He is white. He is. directly of Spanish descent with no.

indigenous blood in him. So him. defending the rights of indigenous. people from the Spanish authorities. really kind of makes him like. a hero character even more, you know? >> Yeah, and for McCulley's side, he gets to avoid just the sort of mess. of. telling the story of of the Anglo. takeover of California. >> Yeah, because he was writing this this. stuff for like an American audience, right? So he just kind of you know,

rejiggered a few things, I guess. >> [laughter]. >> Should we take a break? >> Yeah, and then we'll talk about the. curse. Capistrano.

>> [music]. >> Chuck, we're back. I want to give a hat. tip to Julia because she did a really. great job getting across the. the action adventure sense of Zorro in. in her [clears throat] article that she. sent us. Um, so hat hat tip to you, Julia. Okay, I just wanted to get that done. Let me check that off. Great. >> Yeah, we we tip our sombrero to you. And.

if you're thinking Zorro didn't wear a. sombrero, we'll just hold on to your sombrero. because he actually did it first. >> Yeah, uh in the the Curse of Capistrano. Uh it's um it's set in Southern. California around Los Angeles, around. the mission of San Juan Capistrano, which is where the name comes from. And. again, the Spanish authorities are. pushing the indigenous Mexican um. population around, taking their land, um. trampling their rights, like just.

basically being terrible people. And. they're all doing this because the. governor of California is instructing. them to, right? >> Yeah. >> So there's a the. the mayor of Los Angeles is um his son. His name is Don Diego Vega. His first. name is not Don. Don is a honorific that you would um. call somebody out of respect, like sir. or lord. So his first name is Diego, not. Don. >> Yeah, like in The Godfather.

>> Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. I. never put those two together. >> Did you really not? >> Zorro and The Godfather are basically. the same movie. >> [laughter]. >> Zorro the Gay Blade in The Godfather. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So so Don Diego Vega, he's the heir to. uh the family fortune. I'm not sure how. the mayor made a fortune, but he is not. Zorro. He's the antithesis of Zorro, Don. Diego Vega is. >> Mhm. In modern parlance, you might call. him soft. Uh he lives a life of. privilege. He's kind of a dandy fop.

>> Yeah. >> And his dad is like, oh gosh, this guy, this son is so. disappointing to me. Uh. the women don't even like him. But this is all a ruse, everybody, because he is secretly Zorro at night. He's kind of doing that thing where, you. know, you you're you play the opposite. of who you are as a masked figure during. the daytime, so no one can, you know, no one would ever suspect that you are. are he. >> Yeah. I mean, if there's this isn't like. the Los Angeles of today, it was still.

fairly small, so I'm sure there was a. small pool of potential suspects who. could have been Zorro, so he really had. to take some some real steps to throw. him off of his trail. And that's what he. did. It worked too well as we'll see. >> That's right. >> So he's Don Diego during the day, and. then at night he goes down to the cellar. and meets with his trusty assistant. Bernardo. Um and he puts on Chuck. >> He puts on that sombrero, baby.

>> Mhm. He puts on a sombrero. I imagine, I'm not sure if this is in there, but. the kind of sombrero with like the. little. colored balls that hang around down. >> Okay. >> That's the kind of sombrero I see when I. imagine a sombrero. >> Oh, see I immediately pictured like the. Three Amigos style. But I like I like both. >> I think that that I'm kind of talking. about that. >> Okay. >> The little colored like. fabric balls hanging around the the the.

rim of the brim. >> Hey, I know what you're talking about. I. don't I those things have got to have a. name. I just don't know it. >> You're right. If the things that are on. the ends of a shoelace have a name, those have to have a name for sure. >> Yeah, exactly. So he also wears a purple. cape in this initial iteration. Uh his mask black mask completely covers. his entire face in this iteration. >> Yeah, weird. >> Uh he's travels by horse, something that. would carry over. And he's a swordsman, you know? He's. he's. he's does a little bit of whipping here.

and there, but his real. calling card is that sword. And even. though it's not as big of a deal in the. book, it is in the book that he cuts. that. Z into maybe somebody's butt if they're. bent over and you want a little comedy. >> Mhm. >> or maybe into their clothing or. something. >> And if you want a little piece of. trivia, uh Zorro's horse was Tornado. Tornado. >> That's right. Put that in your pocket, everybody, because that'll come in tiny. at bar trivia one day. >> That's right. Someday. Um okay, so I said that the daytime.

thing is starting to get problematic, posing as this lazy fop Don Diego. The. reason why is the he he's played it too. well. His father is like, you're not. going to inherit the fortune. I can't. give this. fortune to you. You're a giant. disappointment. You're a planetesimal at. best. [laughter] And um he says, how about. this? If you marry and basically get off. the couch and go do something and marry. somebody, I will you can be my heir again. And so.

he starts looking around and he he. trains his sights on señorita Lolita, who is quite lovely, but she doesn't. think very highly of Don Diego. >> No, she doesn't. Uh she well, he's he's. a very off-putting person during the. daytime, so she should not be attracted. to him. You know who she likes? She. likes a couple of people. One, Zorro, which is kind of problematic. >> Mhm. >> Uh and then Captain Ramon, who is one of. the governor's henchmen basically. So uh.

he's in a bit of a pickle here because. he's like, this lady señorita that I. love actually loves the real me, who is. Zorro. >> Right. >> And this act that I'm doing during the. day is really turning her off, and now. Captain Ramon is moving in on her. >> Right. I don't have the impression that. she particularly liked Captain Ramon, but I'm I'm guessing he seemed like a. good alternative to Don Diego at the. time, right? Cuz he had his S together. >> I think yeah. >> Even worse, there's now a bounty on. Zorro's head. And a bounty a bounty hunter's shown up.

in Los Angeles looking to basically. capture Zorro. So all of a sudden, Don. Diego's life is just really gotten. complicated. He's starting to rethink. this social justice warrior thing. And then Bernardo, I think his presence. really kind of steals and grounds Zorro. because he is a um he's a Native. American, he's indigenous. Um he's deaf. and mute. And yes, he's a servant, but. he's also a trusted sidekick who helps. Zorro remain Zorro.

>> That's right. Uh, and in that book, he. does all those Zorro things. He robs. from the rich, gives to the poor, uh, returns land to people who had their. land taken from them. He, of course, uh, whips the butt of that bounty hunter who. came to get him. He takes care of. Captain Ramon in short order. And then. at the end, the mask comes off, baby. Look who it is, everybody. It's really. Don Diego, and Lolita is like, perfect. This is this is all I ever wanted.

>> [laughter]. >> Too good to be true. And that's it. Ta-da. That's the the curse of. Capistrano. I don't know if we said they. his foes called him the curse of. Capistrano. >> No, I don't think we did, but that makes. sense. >> It does. So that was the first Zorro. Um, and. again, you said that the Scarlet. Pimpernel, which came out, uh, 14 years. earlier, probably you know, definitely, you said, influenced Johnston McCulley, right? >> Yeah, he was, uh,

Sir Percy Blakeney in the book. Uh, he. was the protagonist. Uh, he was an English nobleman during. the French Reign of Terror. And he did. the same thing. He posed as like a. spoiled little playboy during the day so. no one, uh, would suspect that at night. he was saving people from the. guillotines, basically. >> Right. And he he had his own calling. card, a Scarlet Pimpernel Pimpernel. Flower. >> Not a Pimple Flower. >> No. >> Those are those are disgusting. >> Not the Scarlet Pimpernickel either, because I remember that was a parody.

from the 80s, wasn't it? >> Uh, I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think it was a little adult for. me. I just thought it was silly. sounding. >> Yeah. Uh, he was also a swordsman. Uh, he wore a mask. He, like you said, had that calling card and he had a. secret identity. So it, you know, definitely played into, um, his writing, I think. >> So, um, Douglas Fairbanks, right, the great. American actor, um, one of the first, like genuine movie stars in history. He.

read the curse of Capistrano and like. seriously within a very short time was. like I want to buy the rights to this. and turn it into a movie. He wanted to. play Zorro. This guy was like super. athletic. Um, I read that he used to uh. just fool around and climb stairs on his. hands. Like that level of athleticism, right? >> It's a good trick. >> Yeah, it definitely. I would love to be. able to do that. I can tell you that I. would just knock teeth out on step one. [laughter]. But he he bought Zorro because he wanted.

to basically play different roles. Like. I did not know this, but apparently. started out in comedic roles. exclusively. Did you know that? >> Uh, I did not. >> I didn't either. So this is where in. Zorro where he became the swashbuckling. hero that he's known and remembered as. today. >> Yeah, 1920 it was a before the talkies. at this point. So it was a silent film. with the mark of Zorro. And this is when he switches that hat. He's got the Spanish Cordovan hat. And you might have been confused with.

those little balls hanging down cuz you. will see those a lot of times on the. Cordovan hats. >> Okay, all right. Sure. >> Maybe? I don't know. >> Or or on the interior of Cheech Marin's. car. >> [laughter]. >> I think he had this. >> man. >> I can't wait till somebody tells us what. those things are called. >> I can't either. And by the way, if you. don't know what the shoelace things are. called, they're called aglets, guys. Not. you, Chuck. I know you know that. >> Well, the only reason I know that is cuz. it's a very common crossword clue.

>> Oh. >> But we don't dare speak of crosswords on. the show anymore. >> Aglets and enya. >> Uh, yeah, aglets and enya. That would be. a good name for a crossword book. Aglets and enya colon. >> colon. >> [singing and music]. >> My life is a mediocre crossworder. >> [laughter]. >> Right? And it's a murder mystery. >> That's right. All right. So the other changes he's got. that Cordovan hat instead of a sombrero. Uh the mask from here forward because.

once you enshrine it in film and people. see it, then you're kind of like, all. right, I guess that's Zorro now for the. most part. Uh the mask only covers the. top half of his face. >> Yep. >> Uh no more purple cape, uh but he does. have a cape, but everything's black. basically. Um and he is like. you know. he's super athletic because Fairbanks is. and he wanted to show off and be like. get a load of this. Like show me some. stairs and watch what I can do. >> Right. He would stand on one hand and.

sword fight with the other hand upside. down. >> Did he really? Cuz. >> No, I don't think so, but it sounds like. he probably could have. >> He should have thought of that. >> Uh another huge huge change was um Don. Diego's last name Vega was altered um. almost to where it's unrecognizable. It. became De la Vega. >> [laughter]. [gasps]. >> That's right. And the the Z that he. would cut in the book it seems like it. was not an afterthought, but just not. the biggest deal in the world. >> Sure.

>> Uh and in the movies it it really became. the thing because that's something that. plays visually uh much better than in a. book, I think. >> Right. And then in the book too, they. kind of tamed it a little bit. In In the. book Zorro would um. put a knee on his foe's chest to hold. them down and then hold the tip of his. sword like a pen and really carve that Z. in slowly. It was much more graphic and. painful, I think, than the the one that. Fairbanks came up with. >> Yeah. It got more swashbuckling for. sure.

>> So it provided a backstory basically. saying that Zorro was um European. educated. His father had sent him to. Europe to be educated and there he. learned sword fighting, but he also. learned um to value social equality. And. his father was like uh Zorro, I mean Don. Diego, this place, this Los Angeles is. starting to get out of hand. It's. getting corrupt. Why don't you come home. and, you know, just be home. I'm not. calling you home for any kind of heroic. action or anything. Don't get me wrong.

I just like you around the family farm. And so he did. He came home and he saw. this stuff first-hand in this again, this Douglas, Douglas Fairbanks movie. And and he was so moved. He's like, I. I've got to do something about that. So. he looked around. He found a sash, found. a cape, found a mask, got his horse. Tornado, and he got down to business. basically becoming the 1850s Californian. Spanish Mexican Robin Hood. >> That's right. And it was a big hit at.

the movies. It was. very very popular. So as soon as that. movie becomes a big hit, McCulley's. like, oh but I got to start writing more. of these Zorro books. And the first one I'm going to write is. I'm going to kind of expand the Curse of. Capistrano into a novel and call it The. Mark of Zorro cuz that's what that movie. was called. >> Right. >> And and I need to capitalize on this. thing. So he did that in 1924, then. wrote 60 more Zorro stories. before he passed away in 1958.

And then that Mask of Zorro movie from. 1920, the silent film was so popular, they remade it as a talkie in 1940 with. Tyrone Power as Zorro. And then the next. iteration after that was kind of a. while, but 1974. when our old buddy Frank Langella comes. in. and it made for TV movie as Zorro. >> Zorro then Dracula. >> Yeah. We we talked about him a lot. lately. >> Yeah, he keeps coming up. >> And as a reminder, I served him as a. waiter one time at the restaurant in New.

Jersey where I worked called The Store. >> Mhm. >> in Basking Ridge, and he ate steak for. lunch and tipped me well. >> And I like him in The Ninth Gate. >> [laughter]. >> That's right. So that's our Frank. Langella reminder slash update. >> Should we take a break or go on for. another minute or two? >> [screaming]. >> Break. >> All right. We're going to take a break. everybody and when we come back, we're. going to knock your socks clean off of. your feet. >> [music].

[screaming]. [music]. >> All right everybody, I hope your socks. are still on because Josh loves knocking.

those things off. And if you were sitting there listening. to our descriptions of the early Zorro. and you're like, wait a minute, this guy. wears a half mask, he does his work at night, he has got an. underground headquarters, he has an. assistant. kind of butler type, he has a secret. identity, he's a playboy by day, that. sounds like Batman. When you're completely correct because. apparently Bob Kane and Bill Finger. saw the mask of Zorro and a couple of. decades later.

you know were influenced to to write the. great. comic Batman. >> Mhm. And apparently like it was not lost on. Batman fans when Frank Miller brought. Batman back in the Dark Knight Returns. comic series starting in 1986. as part of the origin story when Bruce. Wayne's parents are murdered they're. leaving. screening of the the Mark of Zorro. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Yeah, and then there was another I think. a just a single standalone graphic novel.

called Joker War in 2020 and Joker. is basically trying to get everybody to. a screening of the Mark of Zorro so he. can kill them all. >> Yeah, nice little Easter eggs. >> Yeah, pretty cool but also just to. recognize like okay the original Cape. Crusader. was Zorro but it turns out the original. Cape Crusader is the Scarlet Pimpernel. which is mind-blowing to me. >> Yeah, for sure.

>> So. Disney came along and they're like hey. this guy seems like something we can. make a lot of money and turn into like a. massive pop culture phenomenon, which we. [laughter] think of Zorro today. >> Yeah. >> because Disney came in. I mean, Zorro. was already this enduring character, but. also I get the impression in the same. way like the man in the Iron Mask was an. enduring character or the Hunchback of. Notre Dame was an enduring character. Like they just they they come up and get. remade or whatever, but when Disney. comes in,

they come in and they make it like uh. an immovable icon from that point on. And that's what they did with Zorro. >> Yeah, in 1957, you know, I mentioned the. Frank Angella thing was the next film in. 1974, even though it was made for television. This was actually a TV show. in 1957 and it was much more of a. western type thing. Uh they turned Zorro into El Zorro and. he was a little bit more of a cowboy. Uh I think the creators of the show even. called it a southwestern show. And it.

was very very popular. Guy Williams. played El Zorro and this time he is. fighting and boy, they really. went in the opposite direction here. This time he's fighting Mexican. authorities, not the corrupt governor. Uh and the other change they made was. Bernardo, his sidekick is not deaf. Uh he pretends to be deaf. He is mute, but he pretends to be deaf so he can. eavesdrop on conversations about Zorro. >> Right. Um and they really sunk a lot of cash.

into this. Apparently, a half hour. episode cost $80,000 to make. And an hour long episode at the time. averaged about $13,000. And I think a lot of that cost was sunk. into the permanent set that they built. for Zorro, which cost them about a half. a million dollars in 1957. dollars, right? So they really pulled. out all the stops and this was only on. for two years, 1950 well, three, 1957,

eight and nine. Um and still they got almost 80 episodes. out of this um. 80 episodes over three years. Can you. imagined being a TV actor back then? They just ran you ragged. >> Yeah, it was a lot of work. Uh, I just. did the inflation for that. That's close. to a million bucks an episode back then. >> Wow. >> in today dollars. So, and again, that's. just for a half hour. So, yeah, that was. a big big production. And they had a dispute which is why it. got pulled because it was a huge huge.

hit, but it was canceled in 1959 because. I think ABC and Disney uh had a little. row about who owned the rights to Zorro. >> Yeah. And so that's that was it, but. like you said, it made such a huge mark, I guess, a Z if you will. >> Mhm. >> Um, that it just basically laid the. groundwork for Zorro to keep coming up. and coming up for the rest of the. century. Um, including that that movie. which you said earlier if I'm not. mistaken was your favorite movie of all.

time, The Mark of Zorro. [laughter]. There was also a Saturday morning. cartoon. Did you know that? It was in. 1981, so it would have been in your. wheelhouse, The New Adventures of Zorro. >> Oh, yeah. That probably had something to. do with me going as Zorro. >> Yeah. >> We had a uh. a Halloween trunk in our house. Did you. have one of those? >> No. >> With like costume stuff? >> No. >> Yeah, I thought it was kind of common. Uh, in fact, I'd be I'd like to hear. from listeners. We had a. uh a literal trunk in our house that.

just had a bunch of stuff in it where. every year my mom would be like, well, you know, there's this, there's this. hat. I could put it together with this. You could be a pirate. >> Mhm. >> Uh, we got a little parrot with the. elastic band that can go on your. shoulder. >> Wow. >> So, we just saved all that stuff and now. we have our own Halloween trunk in our. house. And uh we we utilize it in the same way. It's kind of a a nice little tradition. But anyway, we had one of those Zorro. hats and I think that also had something. to do. with I guess my mom would find stuff at. like garage sales and be like, oh, this. looks like it could be a future costume.

thing and throw it in the trunk. >> Man, that's so cool. I wish I would have. had one of those. We uh we had an. extension cord that we used as a jump. rope. >> Right. >> [laughter]. >> And it made a pretty good whip too in a. while, but for the most part it was a. jump rope. >> So yeah, it was a it was a cartoon. I. definitely remember that. But it was. 1998 was the Antonio Banderas version. Again, a movie I saw in the theater that. I remember as being like a pretty good. movie. for what it was. And the this was a big.

switch because Zorro up until that point. on film had always been played by. Caucasian American actors. >> Right. >> And. well, I guess in this case that's. actually half true because the elder. Zorro in this movie is played by Don. Diego is played by Anthony Hopkins. So. Caucasian British actor, I guess. But he passes the baton to his son. Alejandro Murrieta. And if you remember. that name, you're like, wait a minute, is that supposed to be Joaquin Murrieta?

No, it's not. But that is his brother. and his brother Joaquin's head is in a. pickle jar in the movie. >> So is it pretty cool looking? >> I don't remember. I would like to re see this actually. In. fact, this might be a fun family movie. >> Speaking of a good movie for what it. was, we talked about. the Mummy with Tom Cruise in. the Universal Monsters episode. Did you. go back and see it? >> not yet. >> I watched it. And I remember like we. were talking about how everybody like it.

sucks so bad that it ruined like their. whole plans for creating the Dark. Universe. >> Yeah. >> I don't I really don't know what people. were talking about. It it was a fun. movie that was really well made. It. didn't get dull. There was no point. where it was a slog. And all the little. things like knowing that they were. planning a Dark Universe franchise, you can see all the little things they. were laying the groundwork for. And it's. really sad that they didn't. they weren't able to pursue that because. it was it would have been kind of cool, I think.

>> Yeah, that's a bummer. I still I will. watch that. >> Yeah, I think you'll like it. Just go. into it like it's it's a blockbuster. It's not high art or anything like that, you know, as it's supposed to be. >> Yeah, I love I like Tom Cruise. >> He does great in this. >> Yeah, I like him in movies. Let's just. say that. >> Okay. So, uh, you also like Antonio Banderas. in movies, specifically Zorro movies. Um, and you were treated seven years. after that, um, I guess epiphany you had. when you saw the first Mark of Zorro in.

1998 [laughter] when they made a. follow-up of The Legend of Zorro, which. I know for a fact you've said is your. actual favorite movie. >> You know, I don't actually remember. seeing this. I probably did, but I don't know for sure because it. apparently he's married in this one and. has children, uh, which complicates the story and that. doesn't ring familiar, so I may not have. seen this one. >> It's like Mr. Mom meets Zorro. [laughter]. He has to like sword fight somebody.

while he's, um, while he has the baby on. his arm, his other arm. >> Yeah, probably. >> I could actually see that now. As I was. saying it out loud, I'm like this was. 2005. >> Got a little onesie with a Z on it. >> [laughter]. >> Right? Uh, so. it turns out that Zorro is actually. considered somewhat controversial, and. it makes kind of sense if you stop and. think about some of the things that. we've talked about. Ultimately, it's that there like his. story was manipulated for different. audiences over the ages. And to make it.

palatable, um, actual history and the. actual like what the Bandidos who Zorro. was based on were actually doing and why. has been just brushed under the rug, and. instead it's Zorro, and he's fighting. everybody except the Americans. And in. fact, uh, apparently in the 2005 Legend. of Zorro, when the when California. becomes a United States state, the Mexican residents all cheer and are.

happy about it, and that is the opposite. of what happened in fact. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's what movies do a lot. of times. They'll just kind of whitewash. things. and paint a a rosy picture for an. audience, and that's definitely what. happened in this case. >> Right. And I was like, okay, well, >> does that mean that Zorro is taken. differently in other countries? So, I. found there was a 1974. Zorro movie. produced in in shown in Mexico. And nope, he's fighting like I think the.

the the local military, Mexican military. at the time. So no, it wasn't altered in that sense, which I was a little surprised by. >> Oh, that's interesting. Zorro's been around like there have been. a lot of iterations since the Antonio. Banderas version. One thing that had to do with that is it. entered public domain in 1995. So there's been. kids' books and action figures. There's. actually been ballets and video games,

comic books, like all sorts of people. capitalizing on the Zorro thing. And apparently between 45 and 60 movies. all over the world about Zorro. >> That's impressive. >> James Bond can't even touch those. numbers. >> Who was it? Was it Dracula that's the. most portrayed I think character? We've. talked about it before. I think it's. Dracula. And it's not that many ahead of. that if I remember correctly. So yeah, Zorro's up there.

>> Well, there's a new one. I I. reading all this I was like, oh man, they should do a new Zorro movie cuz. it's kind of been long enough now. And they're ready you know, we're ready. for that new sort of big time Hollywood. version. And I don't know if that's. coming, but there is a movie coming out. this year. I think it got a it's getting. a streaming release. It may be a show. I couldn't quite tell, but it's. it's a French speaking film. So Zorro is. French in this movie, which was a little. weird and it seems like it really leans. into the comedy. >> Oh, yeah. >> And Zorro's always had a lot like little.

comic touches, but this one seems like. pretty pretty heavily comic. >> Gotcha. Kind of like Zorro the Gayblade. level? >> Nah, but different. >> Okay. [laughter and gasps] There's another a. lot of people have been calling for. Zorro to be cast as a woman. And. there's something that's still in. development. CW and NBC supposedly are. attached to it. Um, and I saw that's not dead. Robert. Rodriguez was going to produce and. direct it, and I don't know if he still. is, there's possibly that. But there's.

already been Zorro as a woman before. If. you were in Canada uh between the years. of 2000 and 2001 and you had your TV. tuned into the right channel at the. right time, you could have seen Queen of. the Swords, which is a straight-up woman. Zorro show. That was supposedly pretty. good. >> All right. I haven't heard of that. That. sounds pretty good. Uh there are certainly like uh Jenna. Ortega. I mean, she's a little young, but if you if you kind of rebooted the. character as a. as a young woman, Jenna Ortega would be.

great. >> For sure. That's a great idea, Chuck. >> If she can play Wednesday Addams, she. can play Zorro. >> Yeah. Let's get to it, Jenna Ortega. Oh man, there's no better way to end. this episode than on that. So I say. Chuck, it's time for listener mail. >> Uh this one was really neat. Occasionally we do an episode where. someone that's actually um either. tangentially tied or directly tied to. the person of the [music] story writes. in, and we love those. >> Yeah, definitely. >> And in this case,

uh we got an email from someone named. Lizzie Post. >> Mhm. >> about the Emily [music] Post episode. And that is not a uh coincidence, everybody. Uh she is co-president of the. Emily Post Institute and the. great-great-granddaughter. of the Emily Post. And she says this, guys. We were delighted by your recent. episode on Emily. It melted our hearts. to hear Josh and Chuck embrace Emily, what she stood for, and how she went. about life. It was just beyond. fantastic. >> Mhm. >> And we are so grateful to you all, uh. the Stuff You Should Know podcast, for. putting together this episode so well.

Sincerely, Lizzie. And that just made. our day, Lizzie. >> Yeah, that was amazing when I saw that. come in. I just immediately forwarded it. to you with the smiley emoticon, if I'm. not mistaken. >> That right. And uh I wrote Lizzie back. I I think she wanted to send us. something, but I'm going to uh see if. Livia will accept that gift because. Livia did such a good job with it, I. think it should go to her. >> I agree. I agree, Chuck. That was very. generous and magnanimous of you. >> Well, we'll see. I haven't done it yet.

>> Well, thanks a lot, Lizzie. We really. appreciated that email. That was really. great to hear and we're glad we warmed. your hearts. And if we've ever warmed. your hearts, other listeners out there, and you want to let us know about it, you can send us an email too. Send it. off to stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. >> Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from. iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

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