You Down With OED? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh there's Chuck Jerry's here too and. this is stuff you should. know uh I believe. a is in order why because we're debuting. a brand new writer oh yeah great idea. Chuck thank you for doing that.

yeah welcome aboard Allison Miller. Allison came to us this is by way of. Livia right as a recommendation yep we. said Livia you're great you know any. other great writers she said actually I. got one I can recommend and here we are. yeah and Alison Miller uh did a uh how. it works here is we do like sort of a. test article and this is that test. article so it obviously worked and. Allison is a historian and researcher. and just did a fantastic job so welcome. welcome to the fam Allison welcome. Allison here coordinate you.

too yeah you do it better than me so I. was hoping you would chime in I just put. some enthusiasm in I think that's the. difference that's right uh so yeah we're. talking about the OED today the Oxford. English Dictionary and I have to say. Allison knock this one out of the park I. get the impression that she may or may. not have read significant portions of. the OED in her lifetime yeah I think. Alison is smart so um and she kind of. starts off by talking about different. kinds of dictionaries which is.

significant because the OED the Oxford. English Dictionary um is a specific kind. of dictionary it's not a regular Average. Joe you know work a. dictionary like some other dictionaries. the Oxford English Dictionary is is a. historical dictionary so it not only. tells you the definition of the word. there may even be multiple definitions. by the way I don't know if you've ever. looked at a dictionary before but. sometimes one word can have more than. one def it's nuts that's heard uhuh the.

OED says and by the way here's where. that word came from and here's examples. of its first use to it's probably most. recent use or one of its most recent. uses so you can see how this specific. word in the English language evolved. over time yeah I I didn't know that it's. it's pretty ambitious it is and. historical dictionaries they don't uh. they don't say like well that that. meaning is not something that people use.

it for anymore like macaroni whatever. the heck they meant in that song the. Yankee Doodle the Indie one yeah I took. that as a reference to. pot but my point is they don't say like. let's get rid of that old that old. definition like the whole idea for the. OED is that the English language is. alive and so the OED is alive and uh. we're going to we're going to leave it. in there and go forward in time but if.

you if you want to look up these old. usages and these old meanings it's all. right there for you in this massive. massive dictionary that uh whose aim was. to include every word in the English. language and every usage of that word up. until now starting in 11:50 CE yeah as. far as the words go they didn't start. the dictionary then but they went back. to Middle English to get uh the what we.

now have is a third edition uh more than. 600,000 entries of which we have 850,000. definitions see three million of those. quotations which is. amazing and uh although I think we're. locked in with the with the beginning. and the end uh because the first word is. a there's no way you can get before that. in line no and the last word is Ziza and. there's no way that that someone could.

create a word that is after zy ZZ y VA. it would have to be ZZ ZZ yeah Z or ZZ. Top I'm surprised they didn't mention ZZ. Top yeah and don't talk to me about. cartoon sleep bubbles so I think we're. locked in it uh as actually Allison has. a great title for this the OED colon a. to zizia I'm sorry Ziza I already messed. it up well it's a tough word z y ZZ y v. a it's fun to spell out loud you say it.

like that with some oomph but um it's a. tough word to to say did you define it. uh no go ahead it's a weevil yeah and it. always was right so one thing about the. OED you might say well like wow that's a. lot of information packed into one tone. you would be right um if you don't know. much about the Oxford English Dictionary. you may at least have the idea that it's. enormous that it's it's way bigger than.

your average dictionary because those. 600,000 entries with 850,000 definitions. and 3 million quotations when you put. them all together it takes up a lot of. space in fact I I by my estimate it. takes up something like an eighth of the. entire. internet uh should we read some of this. uh these fast stats oh yeah let's do. that so I believe this is the first. volume first yeah the whole first.

edition I think yeah the whole first. edition so this isn't even the current. edition uh this is the one that was. finished up in. 1928 um at the time it had 415,000 words. half a million definitions 1.8 million. quotations uh but this is the part I. wanted to get to 178 miles of type 50. million words four feet of shelf space. and uh 10 or 20 half volume so you know. that that uh Encyclopedia Britannica set.

you grew up with in your hallway that's. basically what this dictionary's first. edition looked like yeah and back in. 1930 1928 I guess when it came out um. you paid about today's equivalent of. 3,360 lb Sterling for a. dictionary yeah about four grand in uh. US dollars today and according to the. bank of England that was equal to.

228 days wages for a skilled worker in. 1930 imagine spending most of your year. salary on a. dictionary yeah I think the point has. got to be that very like you had to be a. very well-healed person trying to. impress other people by owning a copy of. this thing back then right yeah or a. library well exactly so yeah this is. that was the first edition it's gotten. even bigger as we've seen over time and. so now finally the internet was born I.

think to house the the Third Edition of. the Oxford English Dictionary which is. where we're at now and um one thing that. they do uh which is pretty sharp as the. dictionary comes out new words are being. added to it all the time they're. probably finding less and less old words. that they hadn't included but you know. like you said the English language is. living so it's it's expanding and um. Contracting and adding new words to it. all the time so by the time those things. go to press and that last volume of the.

addition comes out there's words that. are left over that are just constantly. being added so I think on a quarterly. basis they release um uh supplements. essentially that have new words that. came out or were coined since the volume. that contained that letter was published. in the latest edition that's right and. we'll we'll get to how those supplements. figured in back then and what they do. with those today but the other really. unique thing about the OED is that it is.

a and always has been from the very very. beginning a crowdsourced work yeah uh. right from the beginning the editors who. were we're going to talk about the. original editors uh editors here in a. minute they said hey public we need help. uh so if you're into this you got a. little time if you like to read if. you're a linguist you're into words if. you love language go back to choser. start reading and find these words that. we're looking for find usages of these.

words to send into us uh by hand on uh. they called it a slip a little 4x6 sheet. of paper and mail it into us and you. could very well have a a hand in. creating the Oxford English Dictionary. yeah pretty cool and they got a really. great response to it and I think still. do today oh for sure but that's also. explains why you have you know quotes. from choser and Shakespeare and also uh. as Alis points out quotes from like a.

social media post MH as a usage example. of a word yeah she also used a an. example that came from the most recent. quarterly update from September 2023. porch pirate appears in there and so. it's a really good illustration of what. the OED does um they explain that it's. someone who steals packages from. doorsteps everybody knows that yeah but. did you know that it first came about um. from a News segment on KF R from. Oklahoma City's one of their local.

broadcasting. stations yeah so they'll they'll have. that no well no I said they would have. that I got you as like the example or. whatever uh and then if you want to dig. deeper and just say well what about this. word porch then they'll take you back to. the 1300s with the definition of porch. and then examples of these what they. call. senses uh like that's when a uh not a. not a tense it's a sense it's like how.

the word is used basically yeah and it. might not be used that way anymore. necessarily yeah but they they will have. all of them listed and you can see sort. of the evolution of not only the word. porch but when you eventually get to. something like porch pirate yeah so it's. pretty pretty neat stuff like that's. what they do and they've been doing this. for hundred something years since I. think the first the first volume of the. first edition came out in I think 1884. right yeah and those supplements uh you.

were talking about I promise to kind of. explain how they do things now they were. they were for many many years they were. released um just like hey here's this. extra thing but it created a problem if. you're like well wait a minute now I. have to look up a word in two different. places if it has a more modern usage. right and So eventually they started. combining them uh I think they finally. did that in what 1989 where the. supplements were actually worked into. the the main Edition yeah just the first.

edition yeah so they finished that in. 1989 a couple years before that they had. finally put it on a CD ROM and then like. you said the it only exists today well I. mean you can get copies but they're not. releasing I don't think print editions. any longer it's just a online. subscription type thing now yeah and. usually I mean it's pay right so yeah. subscription so usually you can log in. through your library pretty neat they're. also in the midst of putting out a third. edition so look for that in the next. century. that's right um I say we take a little.

break Charles and then we'll come back. and talk about the history of the OED. how we got here let's do. [Music]. it so um the OED is not the first.

English dictionary um ever in fact the. first one ever was from 16004 it's. called the table alphabetical of hard. usual English words by Robert. codrey um and he basically just put this. together to help people um I guess. explain themselves in English better uh. he thought it was I think words that. were commonly used but not necessarily. commonly understood so that was the. first one um but the the I guess the OED.

really traces its um spiritual roots to. a more recent phenomenon that the. brothers Grim had started which was. essentially a dictionary of a language. in order to show the history of that. language ostensibly in order to prove. how great that language actually was. yeah uh we shout out to a couple of. great episodes we did many years ago uh. one on the brothers grim and was there. one on the just the fairy tales yes they.

were like it was a two-parter right yeah. yeah that was that was a good series so. go back and listen to that but Jacob and. vilhelm Grim uh did what you said they. were like hey we want to create a German. dictionary uh from Martin Luther on uh. it would eventually they died before it. came out but it was called I believe the. the first uh fasle and the fasle is just. the first part basically like hey we. finished a through J or whatever right I. think the first fast came out when they. were alive but of the uh Dees ver ver I.

love it and uh I believe they they died. in the the late uh 1859 for vhal in 1863. and it finally came out in 1961 in full. so they weren't even close uh and she. points out Allison that Jacob died at. the fs he was working on the word fruit. or def yeah I want to say they wer that. was pretty pretty good oh you want to. say it I want to say it too deut.

vertook which means literally German. word book right yeah there more like. B deutch's verto verto yeah there you go. yeah I said it way better in my head I. think I tried too hard that's all right. so like I was saying behind the the Grim. the whole initiative is not just like. documenting definitions for German words. they wanted to trace the hisory of the. German language because they suspected.

that far in the distant past all of. these desperate groups of people who are. now members of separate nations were all. members of the same Germanic speaking. tribe uhhuh and that this had been like. a glorious amazing civilization that was. now fractured and maybe if we understand. it a little better it can come back. together and dare I say take over the. world yeah it's like easy Brothers Grim. yeah they had a good idea I see where. this is headed it got a little perverted. along the way although it may have been.

a bad idea from the beginning you know. yeah this this does link up very oddly. with our uh episode that we just. recorded on uh tectonic plates it does I. think the lesson here is anytime you. have a social or cultural movement to go. back and find how how great your. specific culture is or was that's a. that's a red flag for everybody else. yeah probably so uh so the OED it was. basically the same thing they're like. well you've got your German book but.

what's greater than the English language. uh let's do that for ourselves we're. going to make an English word book yeah. that's what it was called so the uh the. gentleman Scholars and that's in quotes. uh from Britain got together to form the. uh philological Society uh in London in. 1842 uh from the Greek phos uh love and. logos word so uh philology is just the. love of words it's really very plain and. kind of wonderful. yeah and it's a study of the language.

and the and the written language and a. lot of philologists will say like Greek. and Latin are what we're concentrating. in but this at this time there were. people like oh wait a minute English. seems to really be pretty important too. I know it's not Latin or Greek but maybe. we should look forward and get down with. this English dictionary and they said. yes in. 1857 uh after that uh that's when it was. that's when the the Grims put out their. first classic in fact was around the.

same time they said they got a head. start on us but uh I think we can catch. up and do a great job as well and in. fact they did yeah and as a matter of. fact word got out about this and. everybody was like hey this is a great. project the the members of the. philological society in England were um. kind of celebrated culturally for for. trying to do this thing for documenting. the English language and how great it. was so what they decided to do first was. to find out all the words that weren't.

already in other dictionaries of English. or any dictionary that contained English. words unregistered words is what they. called them and they were going to make. a dictionary of unregistered words to. basically complete everything and there. was a guy Richard chenevix trench RC. trench who gave some lectures against. this idea and essentially said rather. than patch an existing garment let's. make a brand new garment from Whole.

cloth and it's going to be the most. beautiful garment anyone's ever seen. it's color Dream Coat well yeah plus. sequin shoulder pads um the whole. shebang and to me that's that's the. height of amazing fashion so um he. actually convinced the philological. society to to Veer a different way and. to rather rather than just take you know. the the words that hadn't been defined. and Define them and make that take on.

the entire English language going back. to 1150 forward and again when you're. doing this so just think about going. into the deep past and saying okay we're. going to do all words from 11:50 to. 1850 that's daunting enough but they. were also signing up for essentially an. a NeverEnding unfinished work because as. we' seen every time they put in an. addition there's any number of new words. that have come along or that they didn't. have they have before um like it's an.

ongoing never ending process they'll. never be done with the OED and I I. suspect that probably drives some. members of the OED staff completely. mad maybe uh and you also have to keep. in mind that they did this without a. publisher secured uh and in fact did. work for about two decades without a. publisher even yeah so they were just. working on what was then called the new. English dictionary uh was the the I. guess guess the um working title and.

their first editor was a dude named uh. Herbert colridge and if you're thinking. I wonder if he was yes he was he was a. grandson of Samuel Taylor and there were. several predictions in here they were. all wrong as to how big this project. would be and how long it would take uh. but Herbert was the first one to be way. off base and said it'll be about 7,000. pages and will'll be done in a decade uh. not how it worked out uh they started. working they started building this thing.

from you know from a forward and they. made a list of books uh like basically. the the English language literary Cannon. and said all right volunteers uh you all. wrote in said you had some time so start. reading read these books and look out. for these words and when you find them. put them on a slip word for word send. them into us uh again that's a 4x6 in. piece of paper it was all very sort of. regimented right and they said please.

read these books and we like English. literature uh because the whole point of. this is to talk about how great we were. and how great our works and language is. yeah so are that's what that's why they. first were like we're going to look. through the the great works of English. language only because this is the. highest use of these words so these are. the best examples these are the. quotations we want to use they were very. narrow-minded in that sense they were. really until the 20th century they were. very much centered on that that's what.

they were going to use to derive their. quotes from because it would just. demonstrate how great the English. language was look at how these amazing. English writers used it right so Herbert. CID died in 1861 I get the impression he. was only working on it for a few years. but he was that's because he died right. right four years later yeah so it was. like four years right but he really. threw himself into it so much so that he. apparently on his Deathbed he had um. definitions like slips scattered about.

like on his on the quilt of his death. bed he died working yeah and he had. contracted. tuberculosis and when the doctor was. like this is not ever going to get. better it will get better but you're. going to be dead that's how it's going. to get better um Herbert Coleridge is. like oh I must start Sanskrit tomorrow. which is taken to mean that he had never. learned Sanskrit he was a um polyglot he. studied all sorts of different languages. and he had never gotten to Sanskrit now. that he realized he was going to die he.

needed to start on it tomorrow yeah. ironically dying of what was then known. as consumption and later TB so that's a. that's a new usage and a new entry yeah. uh 1879 we're skipping forward and like. I said this is 20 years after they. started this is when they finally found. that publisher at the time they were. known another sense as Clarendon later. to be known. as the Oxford University press and even.

though they didn't specifically call it. the Oxford English Dictionary uh until. later I believe the very first uh. publishing in 1928 28 was called a new. English dictionary on historical. principles and so we should mention that. after colorid died it it just the whole. thing kind of like lost momentum he was. a real driving force as the first editor. but you know a few I think 20 or so. years. um later it started to pick up again and.

it was thanks to a new editor named. James Murray who I believe was the third. editor of all and he took this ball and. ran with it and he is the person that. you can point to as the the one who. ultimately got the OED published he was. the he was the true driving force of it. yeah absolutely uh Murray was Scottish. uh came from a just sort of a regular uh. working class middle class background.

was the son of a tailor apparently his. father was a very smart man and known. for being a a smart and sober person and. James as a child was a prodigy was a. language Prodigy right learn learned his. ABCs before he was 18 months uh was uh. apparently reading and writing in Greek. by seven uh left school at 14 was. studying four languages and eventually. came to London to be the Headmaster of a. school there and that is where in London.

he joined up with the philological. society and uh like you said he was he. was the guy he was also the guy who had. another 10year uh completion prediction. he said this will take 10 years from now. oh yeah and after five years of that. 10-year prediction uh they had a through. ant no yes wow I would just see that and. be like well I quit he's like a lot of. that was on boarding you understand Jee. jeez man that's crazy yeah but it also.

goes to show how little they actually. had gotten done apparently under kid's. command yeah everyone was just they. wanted jokes about a. grandpa come on tell me what was Sammy. really like so um the one thing that you. said I think from the start was that. this was a a crowdsourced project yeah. and it's not like the OED makes a secret. about this they're very um deferential. to the volunteers that have worked for. them over the years. CU they just could not have done this. without them it was just too big of a of.

an undertaking to for just a small group. of people to have done by themselves um. and there were a lot of different people. there's a book out there called um the. dictionary people um right what's it. about isn't that what it's called I. don't know oh where is it yep the. dictionary people I think it's fairly. new and the author um had worked at the. OED and before she left um she had.

gotten from the archive she had come. across James Murray's um address book. and it was pretty thick because it had. the names and addresses of all a lot of. the volunteer correspondents um that. were working contributing um quotations. to the dictionary and so she decided to. write a book tracking down who these. people were and that's what she came up. with this book called the dictionary. people and she found some pretty. interesting stuff for example about one. in six by her estimate um were women in.

including James Murray's wife and. daughters uh he drafted them and and got. a lot of support and help from them. apparently the editing the OED did not. pay much uh but he had dedicated his. life essentially to it and his family. supported him in that which was pretty. great um and then there were um a lot of. other women contributed too right yeah. uh the daughter of Carl Marx ellanor. marks contributed uh and it was. apparently fired by Murray uh for not.

doing the assignment properly not. sticking to the assignment uh and by the. way Sarah Ogie is who wrote the. dictionary people yeah nice thanks uh. I'd like to check that out I bet it's a. good book yeah um another writer that. Allison found from this book to. highlight um his name margita lasi uh. who's alive from 1915 to. 1988 uh margita contributed 13,000. quotes to 20th century. supplements uh and Mar margano was a a. Critic and a journalist and a novelist.

and kind of made the rounds on TV shows. and stuff back in the day starting in. the the late 50s and into the 60s and um. you know when people are volunteering. like this they can sort of like guide. their like have their own path forward. and how they want to tackle the project. almost and who they want to highlight or. words they want to highlight and at some. point margan alasi got into sort of away. from the high brow thing and said I want. to start you know looking at domestic.

manuals and all these old ancient. cookbooks and you know modern newspapers. and famous Diaries and just a really. unique approach to come up with some of. those 13,000 entries yeah and that was a. that was a real um change remember I. said that they had um really kind of had. their blinders on just looking for you. know the the Pinnacle of English. literature for quotations under James. Murray he was like no we're going to um. not only look for new sources we're also.

going to include slang um we're going to. include like vulgar um words like we're. we're like if it's an English word we're. going to include it because we're. documenting the entire English language. so that was a huge um CA change for the. direction of the dictionary and. apparently he was under a tremendous. amount of pressure to not um to not go. that way to kind of stick with the. original plan and he said no he said. nine. uh no he said no uh I mentioned nickers.

is that underwear that's what knickers. are right okay I thought so as soon as I. said it I was like wait a minute did I. say the wrong word you were thinking of. Fanny and what's a nicker Boer a nicker. Bacher is a think I think it's the short. pants that were like kind of cinched at. the knee that you think of with like a. little news boys so the New York Knicks. named after the nicker boers that's what. they weree I I don't know they did or. not no they were named after the nicker.

Bacher um like the story club that. Washington Irving was a member of oh. really are you making all this St no I'm. pretty sure that's correct I sometimes. get things wrong yeah but I well this is. off the Dome so we'll look it up okay so. back to Murray he's working with his. wife and 11 kids at his house mainly and. not only at his house but mainly in in. his little uh shed that he had built. behind uh the house in the garden called. the. scriptorium and they worked on it here.

he once they got a through ant in 1884. he was like we need some help here so. they hired a second editor uh named. Henry Bradley and then uh not too long. after that added two more co-editors so. you essentially had a team of four uh. editors at that point that were working. with teams and teams of people so a lot. of people working um Murray at his. script tour. uh there at home but then he moved to.

Oxford and built another larger. scriptorium there behind his house and. things were getting so busy the local. post uh put a PO Box uh right there by. his little front driveway by his. sidewalk and it's still there if you. look it up this beautiful red PO box. with a little placard saying that you. know uh Murray lived here and this was. this the post to gather these slips that. helped create the OED I saw an actually. Atlas obscure that the pler doesn't say. that it just says that the guy who.

created the OED lived here and they just. walk right past the the post office box. that's literally in front of the Placer. they don't even mention it the most. amazing part of the story it's one of. the it's one of the greatest grossest. government oversights in. history so thousands of people. contributing at this point uh Murray is. still beating the drum and like writing. open letters to newspapers and stuff. saying hey we we're still doing this we. you know trying to keep that fire going.

uh and people it wasn't just people in. England people from all over the world. were. contributing uh and I think when they. finally they had so many slips because. you know they're filing these as they. get them alphabetically they're slotting. them in and they have these. lexicographers working around the clock. as well uh when they finally put out the. first supplement in 1933 they still had. 140,000 slips left over it's so nuts. again I would have been like well I quit.

yeah it's just too daunting I can barely. talk about this stuff yeah I think 33. that's the first year they officially. called it the OED okay but everyone was. kind of calling it that anyway were they. really yeah okay crazy so they kind of. went with the the change the English. language changed the name of the. dictionary for them yeah because. whatever that long thing I uh a new. English dictionary on historical. principles mhm uh it was the printed by. the Oxford English uh press so everyone.

was just calling it that anyway so yeah. I guess it was a sense plus OED sounds. better than the Ned you know yeah yeah. sure uh do you want to take another. break and come back and talk about. arguably the most interesting. contributor of all sure. [Music]. okay. [Music].

so Murray dies of plur in. 1915 uh did not see the first uh final. Edition put out which is very sad uh. that would be what uh 13 years later but. did put out most of the fical by that. point. just wasn't compiled into the the one. edition uh different people Jr tolken.

worked for a year on this in 1919 lots. of volunteers but as you promised oh and. Murray was also kned in 1908 troubles. wow yeah apparently kned but still a bit. of an outsider in the the Hoy toyy. Oxford uh you know Literati yeah uh. always felt like an outsider and wasn't. even given an honorary degree until like. the year before he died or something. yeah and when he walked AC across the. stage what he didn't realize is that one. of the faculty had taped a kick me sign.

to his back so he didn't he never. understood why the audience was laughing. when he grabbed his honorary decree it. was very sad he never got it uh so you. promised to talk of the most interesting. uh perhaps most celebrated volunteer and. that is one Dr William Chester Miner uh. if you've seen the movie or read the. book The Professor in the madman uh the. book was by Simon Winchester and the. book starred Mel Gibson as Murray and. Shawn Pinn as the quote unquote madman.

Chester Miner uh I have not seen it. apparently it's not very good and Mel. Gibson and the director tried to uh you. know they didn't support the movie in. the press and they tried to get their I. don't know if it it get their name. removed but they basically disowned it. really I thought Mel Gibson was the one. whose movie it was whose idea well it. was his production company yeah but he. he apparently uh he took him to court. because he didn't get Final Cut like. they said and he didn't get to shoot for. a week in Oxford like he wanted to and.

he's basically like this thing is. garbage because you didn't let me do. what I wanted to so I'm not supporting. it and Sean bin just went what that. stinks because the apparently the book. was just amazing the professor in the. mad man I know and it's such a great. story but I heard other people defend it. and say you know it was pretty good I. had great acting and like he he just you. know got his knickers in a in a wad nice. so um where the the madman and is Dr.

William Chester Miner you said right. that's who the references and um the. reason that they call him the madman is. because at the time he was diagnosed. with either Dementia precox or paranoid. schizophrenia and today we would call. either of those just plain old. schizophrenia Spectrum Disorder um but. this was the uh mid 19th century and Dr. Miner um was suffering from this at a. time when they did not understand what. they were dealing with they just knew. that this guy was pretty bad off and.

needed care essentially for the rest of. his life um he had started out as a a. military doctor I believe he graduated. from Yale medical school and entered the. Civil War uh as a military doctor pretty. much right off the bat um and there's. some stories about when his symptoms. began allegedly there was from things he. was exposed to during his time in the. Civil War uh one is there's a story that.

he supposedly had to Brand a deserter an. Irish deserter from um the Union uh with. a d on his face and that having to do. that to that poor man just made him snap. essentially or brought his symptoms on. is a different way to say it or he was. involved in the battle of the Wilderness. um in outside of. Spotsylvania um Virginia either way we. don't know we just know that yes the. this man definitely had schizophrenia we. don't know how it came on or if there.

was even any trigger but we just kind of. join him around the the time after the. Civil War when he's still in the Army. but he's really starting to show. symptoms yeah and also by the way this. is how we knew that Allison really has. the goods as a a researcher and writer. because Allison was like hey be careful. with this stuff because you know there. are a lot of stories out there and just. don't don't buy up everything you're. reading here right music to are she also. told us how to um pronounce Ziza right.

that's true the first writer to ever. include pronunciation it's nice uh so um. like you said uh an army doctor an army. surgeon um working at the US General. Hospital in New Haven Connecticut also a. flute player apparently a very ambitious. Guy and because of uh you know kind of. how his schizophrenia played out where. delusions of persecution. uh a lot of delusions of being uh. attacked sexually and um you know I.

think that speaks for itself uh they got. pretty bad and he apparently would. wander red light districts of places. where he lived uh he said this is. because of his disorder uh he was sent. to an asylum in Washington while he was. still in the Army uh although he would. get his discharge in 1870 uh while he. was still there uh he thought he could. get better if he went to the UK and get. treatment there and so in. 1872 in London uh he found himself in.

the waking from a delusion that he was. being uh attacked I think sexually. attacked by an Irish. Republican and got up from bed and ran. out to the street like guns blazing uh. thinking he was shooting at HIS a. Tormentor and killed a an innocent man a. brewery worker named George Merritt who. was on his way to work that early. morning yes so that was enough for the. British government he'd already been. discharged from the Army I don't know if. you said it or Not by the time he made.

it to the UK and in the UK the the the. authorities were like okay we're going. to introduce you to one of our asylums. called Broadmore and in Broadmore this. is the 19th century you did not want to. be in an asylum of any sort in the 19th. century they were horrible terrible. places where humans were treated like. about as bad as humans can be treated um. and yet I either he was Charming or. wealthy enough or a combination of both.

he was able to play his flute he was. able to wear his own clothes go on walks. and very um importantly he was able to. bring his personal library of very rare. books from the 17th and 18th century um. with him and they actually gave him. another cell to serve as his personal. Library essentially and I'll bet Shawn. Penn playing that flute is something to. see I mean that about anything else is. why I want to see that. movie it's like an anchor man he pulls.

it from his sleeve and yeah it's very. fake hey aqual. along oh no not again yep it just. happened uh he stayed in touch this is. kind of interesting uh here that he did. stay in touch with the wife the Widow of. the man that he killed and uh she. brought him books even uh which is. amazing and kind of a nice ending to. that story yeah um I don't know the ins. and outs maybe I don't know maybe he did. her a favor maybe he was a bad guy uh no.

apparently he wasn't he was a joking oh. well he apparently contacted her and. apologized made some sort of restitution. I I took that to mean like gave her some. money but she accepted his apology she. didn't have to do that so I think it. says a lot about both of them yeah for. sure uh when it came to the OED he. really poured himself into this as a as. an Avid Reader and had all those rare. books like you said but didn't do the. thing that they said which was hey read. these books and look for these words he.

said nope here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to uh read a book at a time. and I'm going to start I guess it says. with one letter I guess he started with. a letter a and just started looking. through all the books for all the letter. A's and then again for the letter B's. and so on and so on yeah and it was a. fruitful way to search for quotations. using specific words because. I think within just a couple of years he. had generated and sent in between five.

and 6,000 slips of quotations to uh. James Murray and as the years went on. they no one seems to know how many he. sent in but he um I mean tens and tens. of thousands of slips came directly from. uh Dr Miner during his time in. Broadmore yeah they eventually met in. person I mean this was a relationship to. SP SP a couple of decades yeah hundreds. of quotes a week and they met in.

1891 uh finally uh apparently the. superintendent of the Asylum uh had both. men at his house and they met a few more. times after that uh I watched the. trailer of the movie today and uh I'm. not sure how accurate it is but it seems. like they met here and there over the. years and in the book it was like you. know Mel Gibson doing a pretty bad. Scottish accent saying like you and I. have Partners you complete me it was.

kind of like that uh and and I'm not. really sure if that was uh the real case. in real life well so apparently the from. what I saw James Murray considered it um. just as a decent human being he needed. to go support Dr Miner whether Dr Miner. was contributing or not I think it. helped that Dr Miner was contributing. but they they did have some sort of. friendship or relationship it went. beyond just you know the editor and the. contributor kind of thing all right well.

maybe it was then and supposedly Dr um. Miner kept like finding excuses anytime. James uh Murray was like well let's meet. I you know I'm I'm just across like the. the city let's meet for lunch or. something and Dr M would be like I can't. you know I broke my foot or my sister's. coming to visit whatever and then. finally I'm not sure how he finally. found out either Dr Miner admitted to it. or James Murray found out somehow but he. finally did did find out that he was. institutionalized and then he started to. go visit him oh okay pretty neat and.

then he saw him off um after Dr Miner. was uh released from Bradmore so he. could go back to be institutionalized in. America it was clear that he wasn't. going to be around too many more years. um James Murray saw him off at the Docks. and gave him six unpublished volumes of. the first edition that hadn't come out. yet yeah he had a very sad end uh to a. sad life uh he had those delusions of. being sexually violated uh and in.

December. 1902 he tied a tourniquet around his. penis and he cut it off in what he. called uh in the interest of morality. because what he believed is that he had. delusions that he was being taken out of. the Asylum for years and years at night. uh and forced to have sex with uh women. uh all around you know the Asylum and. and in town and so he his penis off and. after that things uh really just weren't. the same for him uh it seems like things.

went pretty downhill pretty quickly um. although he he died in 1920 so that was. you know another 18 years of suffering. yeah as far as um his contributions that. really went downhill after that man yeah. very sad but super super interesting. story and great job Allison this was. really really cool yeah thanks a lot. Allison this is great great start. welcome to the team uh and what Chuck. since I said welcome to the team do you. think it's time for listener mail I.

think so. okay I'm going to call this cost of. goods uh in that episode what episode. was it were you're talking about the. cost of goods I think the Harlem Globe. Trotters is where it originally came. from yeah like why is it so expensive to. go to NBA game these days or get a meal. or whatever mhm we had a lot of people. that write in so I don't think we even. settled on a a final um Point yeah I'm. still looking around there were a few. different theories M but this one from. Matt I'm going to read uh hey guys I.

have a partial explanation for the. question why does it cost so much more. for a nice meal than it used to even. adjusting for. inflation uh Bal m b a m o Bal Mall's. cost disease might help explain this. refers to the rising cost associated. with service or labor intensive. Industries over time despite no. corresponding increase in productivity. so imagine a restaurant in the 1950s you. have a server take your your order Chef. Cooks a food someone else uh cleans up. after you're done fast forward to today.

despite all the technological advances. you still need that server to take the. order you still need the chef you still. need the staff to clean uh the humans. have not been replaced by machines or. software in a lot of these cases uh you. can't speed up the chef uh the way you. can double the speed of a factory. machine without sacrificing quality so. if you own a restaurant you still need. roughly the same number of workers that. you've had uh that you needed in the '. 50s rough. yet wages for the staff have gone up. over the years that's a whole other. Rabbit Hole uh the restaurant has to pay.

its staff more over time without getting. more meals per worker so what do you do. you pass it on to the customers uh by. the way this also explains why stuff. like health insurance and child care. have also gotten way more expensive. relative to other stuff you still need. the same number of daycare workers per. kid and nurses per patient that you did. in past decades uh this was a good one. Matt we got some other ideas and I. imagine it's kind of all these things. probably but bow Mall's cost disease is. a great explanation and that is from. Matt farmer yeah thanks a lot Matt that.

was a good one it's a the whole thing's. Brewing I don't know what it's going to. turn into but that'll definitely be part. of it for sure H perhaps a Josh Clark. solo 10p part series the cost of goods. with Josh Clark I don't think so no no. I'm going to make you do it with me oh. no no no so uh that was from Matt right. yeah Matt farmer Matt farmer thank you. very much for that and if you want to be. like Matt farmer and show off your. braininess and try to answer a burning.

question we have we love that kind of. thing you can send it to us via email to. stuff podcast iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts iHeart. Radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite. [Music]. shows.