WWII Sabotage Spotlight: Operation Gunnerside | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too and I guess it's a new year because. I just had the spirit of John Strickland. pass through me when I welcomed. everybody did you hear that enthusiastic. hey yeah uh a little bit of a well not a. COA I guess just sort of a update dating.

is this is our first recording of the. New Year mhm uh and we had our longest. break ever you know I think everyone. knows we take a a nice long Christmas. break but uh this year it stretched into. November and so we've been gone for a. long time yeah and I'm like do I even. know how to do this anymore yeah same. here I keep making this sound whenever I. move oh no no don't do that I can't help. it it's just I'm that. Rusty uh and also this topic um it's.

good but it's uh we'll try and keep it. as streamlined and easy to understand as. possible there's a lot of moving pieces. sure and there's a lot of Norwegian. names that we've I still don't know how. to say the letter with like the null Set. uh I think it's like a umlout is it okay. I mean I'm going to treat them as umls. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing as. an umlout okay okay uh we're still going. to screw up some of this but um don't. worry about the names too much you know. we should just name everyone you know. Bill bill one bill two Bill three right.

or Leaf. [Laughter]. te uh but anyway we're going to give it. our best go uh welcome back my friend. I'm glad to be back in the studio after. this wonderful break same here man same. here welcome back yourself um so yeah. we're talking today about one of the. more unsung operations of World War II. uh unsung I guess depending on where you. live if you live in Norway it's sung all. over the place it's like a top 40 hit. there it's SU so much well it is now.

yeah yeah it took a little while didn't. it weirdly yeah but uh here in the US we. don't know about it as much because we. were kind of tangential to it if at all. uh it was more a joint operation between. the Brits and the Norwegians the. Norwegian resistance we should say and. the whole thing is called operation. Gunner side and I have to say I want to. um give a big thanks to one of our. listeners Matthew mimal Bard who um. suggested this one I think back in.

November oh wow and it got it went right. to the top of the list so here we are. talking about it now in January yeah I'm. sure you got that email and you're like. unsung uh sabator story um defeating the. Nazis be still my heart yeah um so the. whole thing kind of starts off I think. back in like 1939 when some German. physicists figured out that you could. split the atom through fion and release. a bunch of energy and very very quickly. after that the physicists around the.

world were like this is really great we. can come up with a whole new source of. energy for it this could also be an. extremely dangerous weapon and right. after that World War II started and the. Allies started working on the bomb and. they assumed that the nais were also. working on a bomb so that's kind of like. the the mentality that was going on with. this story really starts yeah I mean it. was sort of a race to see who could get. there first and uh I mean I learned a. lot researching this I did know a lot.

about a lot of this stuff even though. we've done episodes about nuclear fion. and and the like um but there there's. more than one way to skin a cat as it. turns out uh if you want to try and make. a uh a reaction big enough to cause a. big boom MH and one of the the routes. that was taken uh by um well not the. Americans I guess the Germans were. trying to take this route was to use. something called heavy. water uh. AKA how would you say that detarium.

oxide okay uh d2o which is like H2O it's. like regular water this heavy water is. except instead of a nor a normal. hydrogen atom there as an H2O that is. now replaced by a hydrogen isotope dyum. which makes it literally heavier yeah. and the reason why is because dyum has a. neutron where hydrogen doesn't that's. the only difference I mean it's still. you could cook with it you could bathe. in it you probably wouldn't really. notice any difference cuz it's uh two.

Atomic units heavier so it's not like. you would like be crushed down to the. shower floor if you had it running. through your house or anything or water. balloon fight the kid that kid's using. heavy water exactly giveing kids black. eyes with that thing yeah um so but the. reason that it was useful or is useful. still in nuclear reactions is because of. that Neutron that it has right so when. you um carry out a nuclear reaction that. produces an explosion you have a.

uncontrolled nuclear reaction that's the. one that where it just goes Kaboom and a. huge amount of energy is released at. once yeah that's the whole point yes for. the bomb part but to make the stuff that. actually blows up usually plutonium you. have to carry out controlled nuclear. reactions and to do to make it. controlled to kind of bring some order. to the chaos and slow things down just. enough that it will never explode yet it. will still produce energy that you. canuse used to create plutonium if you.

um bash uranium with a bunch of neutrons. yeah you you add a moderator and heavy. water is moderator because all those. fast neutrons bouncing around will knock. into the heavy water and it will. transfer energy to the heavy Waters. neutrons but it slows the process down. in the same way you couldn't use regular. water because regular water be like oh. thanks for the free Neutron jump and. turn into heavy water I guess so um.

regular water wouldn't work heavy water. would work the problem is is heavy water. is really really rare yeah it's super. rare and it's takes a long time to get. just a little bit of it I think it's uh. like if you're just looking at a regular. water source M um there's one uh dyum. oxide molecule for about every 20. million regular ones MH so it's it's not. needle in a hastac territory molecularly. speaking but it's not far off uh the.

Germans went the route of uh heavy water. as their moderator uh the Americans. looked around for a moderator and they. said what about Josh Clark he's a pretty. level-headed guy I just show up with my. note cards in the Blazer by the way our. first Sidetrack of the year uh I REM. reminded Ruby last night that we had a. TV show for the probably 15th time in. her life and she's like you did and we. tried again and actually watched an. entire episode which one uh uh we.

watched the the one with uh John Hodgman. and also starring my neighbor uh. Katherine uh which was the final episode. how we wrote it um but not the final. episode and how it aired right we won't. get into that but I have to say dude you. were like pretty good in a lot of that. as an actor and I was not I disagree. you're always so hard on yourself you. were great man you were you were at. least as good as I was and that's to say. you were middling I think I think you're.

it's very nice of you to say but like. from an I think I had a real like. outside point of view last night I was. like you know Josh was pretty good in a. lot of this and Emily said he really was. wow and I said I never felt that. comfortable and like I was doing a good. job like every once in a while I was. okay but I thought I think you had real. possibilities as an actor well thank you. I appreciate that it was probably from a. year spent as a emo drama kid it was. pretty good.

uh and Ruby made it through the episode. and I was like hey that's our neighbor. and that's John you know John so that I. think you know helped hold our interest. a little bit more yeah that was like the. space one right uh yeah yeah yeah that. was a good one it was it was pretty good. um so long way of saying you were not. available as moderator because you. weren't born yet so uh the US ended up. pursuing uh graphite as a moderator uh. either one can be used we went graphite. the Germans um I guess we'll get to.

their uh the reason they went with hard. water toward the end right yes and tag. that in the end yeah I think so all. right so uh anyway hard water is what. they're after and as it turns out there. was a uh chemist in Norway named leaf. tronstad leaf te Leaf te yeah exactly. who was um who understood how to find. these uh molecules in the best way. possible because he was doing it for a.

different reason there right yeah so. trod was one of these early people who. was like hey this is weird and different. and new and we can figure out how to get. at least very small amounts of it and. there's got to be some cool uses for. this like scientific non weapony uses. and one of the ones that he thought of. very early on was uses as a tracer MH. which I guess you give somebody a glass. of heavy water and then you know look at. their kidneys and see if there's heavy. water coming out of them be like well.

there's your leak. right that's what that's what I. think uh yeah exactly so that's why he. was pursuing it and he was doing that. for a company called uh VOR norsk not. nor or Norse norsk with a K hydrop plant. and that was in the county of of course. Telemark right in the country of uh I. guess Norway right sure yeah you got a. word like norsk in front of you you're. talking Norway yeah so he's at work.

producing a few milliliters of that uh. what like every day or so yeah from like. liters and liters and gallons of water. they would just get the tiniest amounts. because I still don't quite understand. how they were doing it but essentially. they were separating out this one in 20. million molecule of heavy water from. regular Mountain Water that Norse black. magic yeah and so like the whole plant. was originally a hydroelectric power. plant and then then they converted to.

using electrolysis to um I think create. ammonia which is very handy in. fertilizers and explosives and then it. was Trad who is like we need to set up. basically a separate heavy water. operation so by the time World War II. broke out the plant at vermar um I'm. pretty sure I said that right uh vermar. and vermi. um Mor Mindy ver Moran ver I got it okay. it just took a second I was like well. I'm going to laugh at it no I was I was.

making sure I didn't screw something. else up sorry that's a quality joke. thank you um by that time that plant was. the world leader in heavy water. production that's right uh all right so. park that to the side they're producing. heavy water at a rate no one had ever. seen like a cup full of day and World. War II begins in. 1939 and um like I said the Germans were. like hey we should try and get on this. heavy water train uh and they didn't. this not why they invaded Norway uh they.

invaded Norway because they were Nazis. sure uh Norway was neutral had declared. themselves neutral but in April 1940. they invaded anyway and um were defeated. pretty quickly it took a couple of. months even though they had help from. the Allies they were no match for the. German Army and the Germans did as they. do they established a uh Nazi government. there and the people did not like that. because they're Norwegian they were like. no no no we're going to resist uh they. went on strike here and there they.

didn't cooperate in other ways to kind. of just you know get in the way of. progress of Nazi progress and so the. Nazi says all right um martial law has. been declared uh if you resist you will. be put to death and so a lot of. Norwegians left uh obviously uh fought. from other places and a lot of them said. you know what we're going to stay here. and maybe work with the Allies uh kind. of undercover as moles yeah as like a a. secret resistance right and one of those. people was uh tronstad uh at least at.

first and then it became clear that he. basically needed to get out of Dodge so. he ditched and went to I think he went. straight to the UK uh because after the. the Nazis set up this program like it. was it was not a pleasant place to be. when they took over Norway and that. whole thing Chuck reminded me of um do. you remember way way way early in the. podcast we stumbled upon Simo haa the. white death the finished sniper who was. just.

FY I think killed more Russians than. anybody else in the war uhhuh um yeah. remind you of that guy yeah I just. remembered see Ohio so I thought I'd. give him a shout out yeah I'm surprised. you called up that name nice work so uh. but Leaf Trad he became like a really. valuable asset because this guy is like. the world leader in heavy water. production yeah who has all of the. inside dirt on the place where the most. heavy waterers is being produced and.

it's very clear now that the Nazis have. taken over this plant and stepped it up. from like a few milliliters a day to. like I think a few kilograms of heavy. water a day um that they have designs on. making an atomic bomb and in with the. Allies the the three words Nazi atomic. bomb was among the most frightening. combination of words you could possibly. come up with yeah and even today you. know you're like God a Nazi atomic bomb. that'd be horrible and then you're. remember oh yeah the Americans dropped.

two atomic bombs on population centers. and that was pretty bad too yet still. somehow Nazi atomic bomb seems even. worse yeah it does um so he like you. said went to uh the UK uh there he met. up in real life with uh the intelligence. people he' been working with you know on. the down low from a long distance which. I imagine was a pretty fun meeting sure. uh they probably had some tea and caught. up in person mhm uh and he started uh. training these Commando units to be.

sabots to eventually um do their their. you know sabator work in Norway and the. whole time was staying in contact with. his allies at the at the plant there at. VOR and eventually and we're just going. to say these names uh again I wish we. could all nickname them all to make it. easier to keep up with but one of the. guys there that he kept in touch with. who will play part in this story is. named uh inar Skinner land. that's pretty easy yeah uh swallow blue.

was his code name and that feels like a. pretty good place for a break I think it. is yes all right so we do remember how. to do this and we'll be right back right. after this learn about. terod to take a perfect all. about the the LI Mur and the explain. everything to your. bra word up Jerry. [Music].

Chuck have you seen that movie the. ministry of ungentlemanly Warfare It's. like a newish guy Richie movie no it's. pretty good actually all right it's like. a an easy watch like there's it's not. some big huge sweeping epic or something. you have to really you know keep up with. it's just a kind of an guy Richie movie. yeah right well I would snatch kind of.

convoluted well sure with the accents. sure but um there there actually was. something called the ministry of. ungentlemanly warfare that was the. nickname for it it was called the. Special Operations executive officially. and they basically train sabur so that's. who Leaf Trad threw his lot in with and. one of the first things they did for the. Norwegians was send them to Scotland and. have them train in like extreme weather. as much as they could but I'm thinking. like the Norwegians would be like this.

is this is like summer to us what is. this like they I I don't see why they. would need to train in Scotland but. trained they were yeah and the reason. why they were trained for extreme. weather and extreme conditions is. because of the location of the vmar um. power plant or I guess heavy water plant. uh it was in a really forbidding place. that you would not want to go to without. like a car yeah it was it was tough I. would say you'd need one of those cool. old army jeeps if you wanted to get. there back then MH uh it was surrounded.

by a plateau a mountain Plateau called. here we go uh hanga Vita perfect that's. got to mean danger something I think it. actually means like Wide Mountain. Plateau danger I looked I looked it up. cuz I thought so too I was like that's. got to be like the name of a God that's. going to kill you or something yeah. hardanger me what that is means high. mountain Plateau I think Vita might be a. plateau. really uh maybe hardanger I don't know I.

don't remember wa so the um oh what was. the guy's name Ricky. uh I can't remember but he was saying. like living the plateau. Loco oh God Ricky Martin Ricky Martin. yeah Ricky Martin yeah from. mudo uh that's. right shout out to mudo who knew that. was coming I I did not I know they were. gonna make an appearance uh all right so. it was surrounded by that mountain.

Plateau um it is a very very cold uh. place I think Livia dug up this kind of. old um factoid it freezes flames in the. fire is how cold it was there not. literally of course but you know those. Norwegians are with a turn of a phrase. so Americans came in and they said why. don't we just drop a bunch of bombs on. this plant what's your problem right. with these sabur and they said no uh. Tron said was like we've got a tanks. there liquid ammonia uh you're.

definitely going to kill a bunch of. civilians nearby and all this stuff is. underground under concrete and metal in. these bunkers and it probably wouldn't. destroy everything you wanted to destroy. anyway uh he also you know didn't say. this out loud but was like I don't want. you to destroy the only hard water plant. we have because this is a valuable thing. and all of a sudden you would kind of. own not the patent but the process for. that yeah and after the war who knows. who's going to need that stuff so. exactly yeah it was a little bit of.

national pride too that was driving it. so he actually talked them out of it um. the the Allies or the Americans I guess. were put off for a little while and. they're like all right you go ahead and. do your little sabotage thing let's see. how how you do so um that whole group of. Norwegian resistance Fighters uh was. called company Ling and Company Ling I. kind of made it over uh as the the group. of train sabots from the Special. Operations executive so company Ling. uh they launched an operation Operation.

Grouse great operation name yeah but. they apparently the so didn't think so. because they renamed it operation. swallow yeah and um the whole thing was. led by a guy named jens's Anton pulson. which I think I nailed just then except. it's yens oh man I semi nailed it no you. you had it except for that but that's. okay okay um so Yen andon pson LED I. think three other um resistance Fighters.

uh who parachuted back into Norway and. essentially just became backwoodsman for. months setting up like a camp literally. in like a Trapper's cabin and lived off. Hunting reindeer and just basically. became the first little tow hold of this. operation of Norwegian resistance. Fighters coming back to sabotage the. vermar plant yes exactly so they're. there they set up their camp they're. eating reindeer it's very sad for.

reindeer sad but. delicious you've never had reindeer have. you uh yeah a couple times really no I. was about to say where the heck do you. even get. reindeer I don't know I'm sure somebody. sells reindeer meat in like somewhere. weird like Missouri or something yeah. yeah I'm I'm sure there's people in. Maine right now that are like you've. never had reindeer we always have some. across the pond here right exactly uh so. about a month after that they launched. another operation Operation freshman cuz.

they were like these guys are going to. need some real you know some muscle uh. behind them yeah uh so they sent in two. air gliders with 39 British soldiers and. they were just kind of coming in you. know behind them as backup um it did not. work out so well though one of the. planes uh crashed into a mountain and. killed everybody on board uh the other. one crashed into the ground um not where. they were supposed to land but you know. a distance from that and it didn't kill. everybody but they you know they saw. this happen the Gestapo found the the.

survivors and executed them yeah uh. basically on the spot uh and also found. a map that showed that they were headed. for the hard water plant uh they didn't. locate those original people and they. just sort of stayed there you know. hunkering down in that cabin for a while. and surviving uh undetected yeah so. operation freshman was like you said it. was the idea was to just storm the heavy. water plant overwhelm it and blow it up. and and they decided instead okay.

instead of sending 39 Soldiers with a. ton of equipment including bicycles I. read uh we'll just try a more subtle. touch so they um they went to oh man. waen. rudenberg nice who um was 23 at the time. and they're like you're you're basically. an old man in World War II um standards. why don't you lead a team uh for. operation Gunner side and this is. finally the operation that this whole. episode is is based on. and it was a uh small Tactical sabure.

Team who went to the heavy water plant. to destroy the them Mar's um heavy water. production. capabilities I love this kind of. thing it's just the the kind of thing. and if you're thinking oh man why isn't. there a movie about this there was uh an. older movie with Kirk Douglas that I. don't think you know set the world on. fire uh but I think this could go for an. for maybe a guy Richie update. totally yeah I doubt if he would do it.

after the other one but you know I don't. know I don't think he's opposed to. making a SE sequel or a reboot I mean. snatch was basically Lock Stock and Two. Smoking Barrels done over again yeah he. made a lot of those there several of. those Sherlock Holmes movies I think. right no Lock Stock and Two Smoking. Barrels no oh I see you were just kind. of taking a little side Step In The. Logical direction right. yeah it didn't follow first one back. yep there you go so yeah I I think the.

first one was pretty good I don't know. about the second one was that any good I. didn't see any of them the first one was. not bad if you if you don't let yourself. stop and think like who would have the. audacity to make Sherlock Holmes like a. a like a rough and tumble Action Hero. and just kind of give yourself over to. it it's pretty good yeah and what you. know I can also recommend for kids uh. especially younger girls anola holes the.

anola Holmes movies are pretty good both. of them are good yeah I enjoyed those uh. we have to do a Sherlock Holmes episode. at least we haven't done that no not as. far as yeah we totally have to because I. don't I don't really know anything about. much of that it's going to be like our. chess or soccer episode though I have a. feeling uh are there homies that uh get. upset it's a whole hornet nest we're. going to stick our head. soon what are the uh what are the clown. uh what's the clown.

band uh the Insane Clown posi yeah but. what are their people called the jugal. jugal yeah the guy who does my hair is a. former. jugal I think those are two words you. like to hear together former jugal yeah. yeah it's like former homsy yeah after. they leave that World Behind you know. hey I don't think the other people let. you leave that World Behind oh boy yeah. it's threatening so where were we chuck. oh yeah side yeah we are at operation.

Gunner side um this guy runberg he. didn't know even why uh that that plant. was a Target they basically just said. here old chap uh we want you to go. destroy some pipes at the plant and the. people that tried before you all died. and you might as well pip pip yeah. that's basically it that's all the. information he had but he was game he. was that kind of guy yeah I mean they. accepted cyanide pills as part of this. operation and and yeah they had no idea. what they were doing they just knew they. had to go blow up some pipes and that.

was that like this is how dedicated. these people were um that they were. willing to sacrifice their life to try. to blow up some pipes because the Brits. told them it was going to help. the Nazi war effort so I think there was. five of them that parachuted in just. like the operation swallow people had. before um but they were miles miles away. from The Landing site they just maybe. got blown off course or something like. that and it took them five days of. trudging through the snow although I.

think they might have had skis um to. find the the um operation swallow people. who'd been sitting there eating Reindeer. the whole time and even when they found. them in this Trapper cabin and and. hooked up with them and now there's nine. people in this operation they were still. 40 Mi away from the heavy water plant. and again it's like snowy in February in. Norway you can just imagine yeah yeah. there's uh there's a suspension bridge. there's one way you could get through. but of course they had Nazi guards there.

so that wasn't the best route uh the. other options were like a literal. Minefield or I guess mind mine Forest. that they could have crossed through at. Great Peril or they could hike all the. way down into the gorge uh which had. like a half Frozen river running through. it and then go to the plant that way and. then hike back up uh and so they said. they took a vote I guess and they said. Minefield no good Nazis on the bridge no. good let's just get on our skis as we do.

and hike down that Gorge and that's how. they did it um we do need to mention one. little side thing that we failed to. mention M uh is that before this all. happened when uh runberg was I guess. debriefed and sort of getting his act. together to go he went into a hardware. store and apparently on a whim as The. Story Goes bought some heavyduty uh bolt. cutters like metal bolt cutters MH and. to just park that right there because. you know if you introduce bolt cutters I.

guess in this case act. two you know they're going to cut. something in act three right so he's got. those bolt cutters and they decide to go. down into the gorge as their route to. the uh hard water plant yeah and again. not just going down into a Gorge. crossing a half Frozen River and. climbing up a cliff get to the top of. the gorge on the other side where the. the heavy water plant was and apparently. that route was such an unlikely route. that the Nazis didn't even bother. guarding the gorge no nobody would go.

down there exactly so uh February 27th. they made it um for the 40 miles to. their target uh I think it was the night. like right before midnight um this team. of nine sabots from company Lena the. Norwegian resistance are sitting there. outside of the verar power plant um. figuring out exactly how they're going. to get in and they decided that they. would split up um there were five of. them and as they were sitting outside.

they were faced with their first. obstacle which was a fence and. apparently the Brits had said there's a. fence so here's a handsaw and the guy. who was in charge who was it runberg. yeah yeah his second in command can HW. Leed we're like running through these. Norwegian names man hey that sounds. pretty good to me okay so and I know. it's can I always thought it was n but. it's can cuz I watched this cool little. Nova special. uh and he was interviewed and they.

definitely said Cano he said uh rberg. don't you have some bolt cutters right. and roomberg gave them the bolt cutters. and instead of this loud tedious. laborious hacksaw that they would have. tried to use and probably gotten caught. using they just snipped right through. the fence in a few minutes thanks to. romberg's foresight back in Cambridge. that's right snip snip so uh that paid. off pretty quickly much more still. to uh well I think I got the same wrong. if you introduce bull Cutters in act two. they're going to snip something in act.

two yeah uh they're on the property now. uh five of the PE five of the nine. provide cover the other two and they had. tommy guns they had chloroform uh they. were they were set for an attack if need. if need be mhm uh and they were keeping. a watch on like the barracks and because. there weren't like you know hundreds of. German soldiers uh I get the idea if. they were going in with the initial. 29 that it was probably a couple of. dozen maybe I mean that's just a guess I. don't even know if it was that many I.

mean as important as this heavy water. plant was to the atomic program in. Germany yeah it was so remote that they. were just like you know I think it's. going to take a few people we got mines. there's a Gorge we got people on the. bridge it's fine yeah yeah exactly so. they were keeping a watch on the. barracks they were keeping a watch on. that bridge uh for the Guardsmen there. and just sort of waiting around for any. um you know activity so they could get. those tommy guns out or or maybe. silently chlorified Forman Nazi which. was a dream of any Norwegian sabator you.

know they wanted to do that so bad yeah. so uh the other four guys split into two. pairs uh they each had and I get the. idea they split up uh in case and they. each had enough to like blow it up in. case like two of them got caught or. killed the other two could still. complete the job right uh they got in. through a second gate and they had. arranged with one of the co-workers. there to uh I guess you know one of the. inside moles to leave a door open but. unfortunately that person called in sick.

that day and I guess didn't seem to. think like hey I had this important. other task right to do and tronstad had. previously told them though like if you. can't get in that way there's a cable. shaft you can probably slip through and. that's what they ended up using I just. want to Circle back and emphasize the. fact that this man was a Lynch pin to a. sabotage plan all he had to do was show. up to work and leave a door open he. could have gone home right after that. yeah i' been like I just threw up I have.

to go get out of here right and and my. guess this is 1943 there's a 85% chance. that his illness was a severe hangover. which makes it even worse yeah probably. so so yeah luckily yes they found that. that hatch was open in the cable shaft. and they basically slid through um the. the two who made it through the cable. shaft was roomberg the leader yeah and a. guy named Frederick Frederick yeah. Kaiser yeah Frederick Frederick not. Fredick yeah Eat Your Heart Out.

Frederick's it's probably fedok yeah. would be my guess I like freder it's how. we say it in America anyway Kaiser and. rberg they were the ones who went down. this cable shaft and they start getting. busy I think Kaiser was holding a gun. whoa whoa whoa. what they're like we have some extra. time sorry go ahead so uh they yes and. they went down a shaft even as well and. so almost immediately they found a.

Watchman I take him to be a Norwegian. Watchman maybe um and they were like you. know you're now our hostage sit there. and be quiet and he's like no problem. you guys do whatever you want and. despite his complicity Kaiser was like. this is my one chance and so he. chloroformed The Watchman. anyway and so as he's doing this rberg. went and planted the explosives on the. pipes just as he was told to do and. right about then all of a sudden out of. nowhere there's a explosion of glass as.

a window shatters and roomberg and. Kaiser and the chloroform guard all turn. and look and the other two men from the. um other explosives team come in through. the window that's right they're like. it's just us guys uh we're all here. together so we can get this thing bombed. up quicker MH uh they set up those. explosives the four of them I guess at. this point and the fuses at the time. were two-minute fuses uh that would have. given enough time to to get the heck out. of there uh runberg said no I really.

want to make sure we hear this thing go. off so we're going to go down to 30. seconds I imagine everyone said well how. about a minute he said no 30 seconds is. plenty so they're getting ready to light. the fuses uh the guard that they had at. gunpoint said can I get those glasses. yeah uh you know if they blow up their. my optometrist has quit and retired I'm. not going to be able to replace those. things very easily so they said sure get. your glasses and at that point another.

civilian employee uh Norwegian obviously. comes into the room and is now another. temporary prisoner uh ronberg lights. those fuses counts to 10 which means. they only have 20 seconds and then says. run to the two civilians uh they get the. heck out of there as well um I I reckon. in the movie guy guy Richie would really. have to sort of fudge things because. what is not exciting in a movie like. this is.

when is all you hear and that's kind of. all they heard it wasn't a huge. explosion it's not like they were. blowing up this entire plant like he. would probably do in a movie right they. were just trying to damage these pipes. and he said that uh later on he said. they heard a tiny insignificant pop uh. also because it was underground under. that concrete and stuff uh Windows did. break though enough at least to Rouse. some sleeping Nazis uh this part is very. movie likee because the four that were. guarding. um kind of watched as a half-dressed.

Nazi gets out and was like oh do I hear. anything do I hear anything but. apparently that was a pretty noisy plant. so he just goes back to bed I can't help. but imagining like a Sergeant Schultz. type yeah stumbling out totally so yeah. it wasn't a big deal and as a matter of. fact I mean it turned out to be a big. deal but like it yeah it didn't cause. like that huge explosion where guards. start coming out of nowhere and you know. there's alarms going off and search. lights coming on it wasn't anything like. that and in fact all nine people who.

were the sabur in this operation got. away they escaped scotf free and in. retrospect not a single bullet was fired. and not a single person died in this. highly successful amazingly daring uh. sabotage operation that's right uh but. that is not the end of the story so. maybe we should take our second break. yes and we'll come back and finish up. right after this want to learn about a. terrorist call aoda how to take a. perfect all about fral G of the H the. lizy Mur and the canall Run don't.

explain everything to your brain. exp should. know word up. [Music]. Jerry all right so as you said uh the. sabur Got Away uh I think one of them uh. pson took off to Scotland by C mhm uh. runberg and the uh and the rest of the.

the gang uh stayed on their skis as the. Norwegians do they skied about 200 miles. which is like nothing for them uh they. skied to Sweden in fact with Nazis. chasing them they had uh planes above. trying to locate them like that part. would be a pretty good part of the movie. I guess MH uh but they they got away and. uh there was a germane of the German. special forces in Norway who called it. uh the most Splendid coup um how however. it only took a few months before the.

Nazis were able to restart production at. the plant uh I think this happened in. February so in May of that same year. they had ramp back up to full capacity. which seems like a big. disappointment uh but no because here. come the Americans with their initial. plan to just bomb the plant and just. like they were warned it did not do a. ton of damage to anyone but the 22. Norwegian civilians who were killed yeah. it it like this this heavy water plant. was in this basement of a power plant so.

it was not easy to get to as far as like. aerial bombs are concerned yeah. especially the bombs back then you know. yeah for for for real but the thing is. it did show the Nazis that like hey this. remote isolated actually surprisingly um. uh u v vulnerable plant that's like the. one source of our heavy water we should. probably stop creating heavy water there. and move the operations to Germany yeah. so they did and remember the Nazi heavy.

water program is set back a few months. and this is at a time where the Allies. are racing in the Manhattan Project to. create the atomic bomb assuming the. Nazis are in the same race as them the. Allies understand that like we can do. this in like two three years so to set. back a Nazi Atomic program 3 months is. an enormous setback in a two or threee. race to become the first to to come up. with an atomic bomb so from that um.

standpoint even at the time they were. like that was a very successful. operation even though like you said the. Nazis got back up to full um full. capacity in just a couple of months but. as we said they were moving everything. to Germany and I guess the company linga. crew the the Norwegian Freedom Fighters. um they were keeping an eye on all the. movements of the heavy water from I. guess their their moles inside the heavy. water plant and they knew that the not. were going to move the heavy water and.

when they were going to do it and how. they were going to do it that's right so. they come up with another plan to. further through their efforts and they. determined the best way to do this was. to sabotage the ferry that's going to be. fing everything over uh to Germany so uh. they knew it would cost some civilian. lives but they figured that was their. best chance to get it before it even had. a chance to get you know set up again. and old Cano is back on the scene uh he. was the second in command there at. gunnerside if you remember and he was. leading the team this time he had been.

promoted I guess and in February. 1944 uh they set off uh explosions on. the bow of that ship uh it was a ferry. called the hydro and 14 uh Norwegians. sadly were killed along with four. Germans and this again was a big a big. success um they for a long time they. weren't even positive that there was. heavy or they couldn't prove at least. that there was heavy water on board. right and there was a German heavy water. expert after war that said no those were. just zo zoo dummy's dummy uh and I guess.

to try and undermine the idea that it. was a success uh but PBS Nova to the. rescue in 2003 um they organized a. salvage of one of those barrels from. that sunken fery and they proved that it. contained heavy water so it was a great. success after all that was the Nova mini. documentary I watched it was really good. yeah but one of the things that they. cover in that the reason why um the. Allies were like maybe those were. dummies is that there were reports of. survivors of that fairy sinking that.

barrels had been floating like some. people were trying to like climb onto. the barrels to survive they're like. heavy water is not supposed to float in. regular water and so they they were like. it's possible that this this was a decoy. because also intelligence showed that. some heavy water did arrive in Germany. well it turns out thanks to this Nova. special I'm about to spoil it um that. the those barrels that floated were the. most pure form of heavy water that they. had at their Mark the barrels weren't.

full and so the air inside the barrels. was making them float wow yes so it was. heavy water that they sabotaged they did. put a dent in the amount of heavy water. I think there was a 15 ton shipment and. the um Germans were only able to to. collect I think the four that were. floating so it was a big deal too but. again 18 people lost their lives for 14. of them innocent Norwegians yeah um. yeah and I think that's that's actually. something they wrestle with in the Nova.

documentary because they interview some. of these people we've talked about and. they're you know they're trying to. reconcile their guilt with you know the. the how impactful the mission was. especially living for decades with that. gnawing rumor in the back of their head. that those have been dummy barrels yeah. and it resulted in the loss of so many. you know civilian lives yeah so I think. they were quite relieved to find that it. really was heavy water and still there's. debate today over even with the success. of Gunner side even with the success of.

that swallow group um sinking of the. hydro fery how much of an impact it. really had on Germany's Atomic program. and in fact how much of a program. Germany had during World War II to build. an atomic bomb yeah for sure uh the. official historian of the S. soe uh mrdf foot great name uh said that. it changed the course of the war uh the. fact that they were denied that that.

regular steady supply of heavy water. really put a dent in their operation um. liia very astutely points out another. Factor was um that key scientists were. uh a lot of them were Jewish scientists. that the Nazis were using and they. either escaped or were murdered MH uh. which also slowed down the you know the. Germans pursuit of the bomb uh but also. I think you found out too that. um was it the Germans uh regretted. pursuing heavy water was that what it. was instead of graphite so they were.

basically they took a wrong turn right. out of the gate with what they chose as. a moderator I think like did you say. earlier that the United States chose. graphite right yeah we used graphite. they went with heavy water which was a. mistake yeah well they're both really. great moderators but graphite is. available in abundance you can find it. anywhere right sure heavy water is. really hard to come by so right out of. theate the Germans chose a moderator. that was really difficult to get and.

that there was only one place basically. in the world that was producing it. whereas the the Americans just went out. and bought a bunch of graphite at the. the grocery store basically to use as. their moderator so right away that first. hurdle the Americans overcame the. Germans ran into and the most. interesting thing is it was based on a. miscalculation yeah that's right if they. had have calculated correctly then they. they would have known from the beginning. right yeah so I think whoever conducted. I can't remember their names but they.

conducted experiments on the viability. of graphite as a moderator and they. basically forgot to carry a one or. something I think what it really was is. they didn't factor in the influence of. impurities in their graphite sample and. they concluded that graphite wasn't a. very good moderator so let's use heavy. water instead so essentially even before. the program. started the Nazi Atomic program was just. yeah dead like dead in the water. basically yeah got to carry that I yes.

but the Allies didn't know this and it. turns out that just the idea that the. Nazis were involved in heavy water. production suggested that they were. after an atomic bomb and that the Allies. then were in a foot race against them. and um that led to the creation of an. actual atomic bomb so the Nazis directly. influenced the production of an atomic. bomb even though it wasn't theirs the. Nazis being involved in heavy water. production sounds like some sort of.

weird October Fest slogan right they'd. be like what what does this mean and. they'd be like just drink this huge. gallon beer and shut up uh I mentioned. that film 1965's The Heroes of telmark. uh with Kirk Douglas as sort of a uh a. mashed up fictional character based on. both ronberg and. Tron um that like I said wasn't like the. biggest film ever but it was an American. Film so we did did know about this. operation more than they did in Norway.

until like 2015 uh State broadcaster uh. nrk ran a miniseries called the heavy. water war in 2015 and that's when a lot. of Norwegians kind of first learned of. this uh operation and if we're talking. Tron if you want to uh we want to button. up his story you feel bad for this guy. because he didn't get to parachute in. and actually have feet on the ground for. this kind of thing uh he finally got to. do that kind of thing in October of 1944. uh he got under that parachute uh for.

operation uh operation Sunshine uh which. was you know protecting norways some of. their industrial assets and. infrastructure from German sabator uh as. the Nazis were on their way out so he. got his his hands dirty which he he'd. always wanted to do uh but very sadly. the following may I believe in. 1945 uh he was shot dead by the brother. of a Norwegian collaborator who he was. questioning so he tragically died as. well yeah which is sad at least he did.

get to get to oversee and fly in on. operation sunshine I wonder if he got to. use any uh chloroform maybe um so Chuck. I think that's it for the Norwegian. sabotage operation Gunner side we. haven't figured out what we're going to. name this episode I like Olivia's title. oh man it's one of the better ones you. want to go ahead and tell everyone yes. uh she titled this article Like Water. for Nazis. sense of humor really good uh well.

thanks to Olivia for that and thanks to. you for listening and how about uh we. set up a listener mail so I can thank. that person. too that's right uh this is from Justin. Meeks about Tavern on the Green uh Hey. guys uh and this shows you how long. we've been off because I've been holding. on to this one uh my Grandma had a. wonderful related story to tab on the. green uh she was from rural Montana and. traveled to New York in the late '90s. with a group of old ladies over thank. giving M uh one of her traveling group. actually uh had sold David Letterman his.

Montana Ranch so they went to a taping. of a show and he invited them backstage. he found out they were going to be in. town for Thanksgiving and invited them. to have Thanksgiving dinner with him at. tabern on the green what wow uh grandma. said that was one of the first. thanksgivings she could remember that. she didn't eat turkey dinner because at. tabern of green they had to order the. steak and lobster uh especially because. Letterman was paying for it uh Grandma. never never missed an episode of. Letterman even before this certainly. never did afterwards uh Letterman is.

seriously a great dude and love that. grandma got to meet one of her Heroes. like this uh thanks for the many years. of the podcast keep up the great work. come back and see us in. Denver uh that is from Justin Meeks and. Justin we're going to head back to. Denver at some point but we should. probably tell people since we're getting. emails that we are not doing live shows. in 2025 yeah including sketchfest we've. gotten a lot of emails from people who's. like uh the sketchfest schedule's wrong. cuz it doesn't have know on there right. and yes we're sorry to inform you we're.

not going to be at sketchfest for what. the first time in like many years 10. years maybe or something yeah we're just. taking a down year from doing live shows. uh we're going to we're going to be back. out there again so fear not uh we're. we're just taking a down year and that's. like four less trips that we're going to. take and we're going to be with our. family and uh and that's a decision we. made that we feel good about yeah and. ironically I just reached Diamond status. for 2025. oh I've never been Diamond I couldn't. believe it I got the email and I.

forwarded it to Yumi I was like well now. I know it's going to be written on my. headstone yeah and uh I'll be buried. next to you and it'll just say sadly. peaked at. Platinum uh what else man that's it okay. well thank you very much to Justin Meeks. Justin Meeks uh whose Grandma has a. great story and who I assume did not go. on to become Letterman stalker right I. don't think so if you want to be like. Justin and email us a pretty cool story. about David Letterman or otherwise you.

can send it off to stuff podcast at. iHeart. [Music]. radio.com stuff you should know is a. production of iHeart radio for more. podcasts ihart radio visit the iHeart. Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows. [Music].