Why is Chinese art being stolen? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here. too and this is stuff you should. know um and we're going to talk a little. bit about Chinese art heists so let's. get started go that's right big thanks. to Livia she did a banger of an article. for us but also thanks to you where did.

you come up with this idea um oh was. this a. recommendation God I'm so bad about that. uh I don't know uh but we also have to. uh thank uh reporter for GQ magazine. named Alex W Palmer who in 2018 wrote um. a pretty uh a banger of an article as. well yeah about these art heists of. cultural very specific cultural and art.

artifacts from China that have been. stolen from museums in the 2010s and. basically posed the question is the. Chinese government behind this right are. they commissioning people to Rob art. museums and I mean not just like you. know some Tinker toown museum on the. corner of a neighborhood that. like I don't know you know not a good. Museum museums talking like world class. museums like the fountain blue in. outside Paris Paris France that is not.

Texas yeah um so yeah was there's like. a still to this day people don't know. exactly what the deal was and it seems. like despite what Palmer Alex Palmer was. saying Palmer basically was like you. know didn't point the finger directly. but that was kind of the premise of the. the article that who knows who's behind. this and it's possible that the. government of China has some hand in it. but also the Chinese art Market as we'll.

see has blown up so much that it's also. entirely possible that that it's just. like that makes a lot of sense for. thieves to steal Chinese art the thing. is is these the string of particular. heists that Alex Palmer talks about that. really kind of form this this galaxy of. of particular heists the thieves would. go in and steal really specific stuff. that were Chinese Antiquities a lot of. times they've been looted and they would.

walk right past other things that were. really really valuable and it almost. seemed like they had a shopping list um. of items that that were particularly. Chinese that they wanted to. steal yeah I don't think almost seem. like a that seems like a certainty to me. it's true it is you could see that list. like you know Imperial. seal uh China dog or that the the waving. cat that's fortunate.

uh and then um you know eggs butter and. apples yeah the Picasso nah yeah they. just walk right past really expensive. stuff but yeah it wasn't because they. didn't know what they were doing it. seems like some of the people who were. caught with this um were clearly. professional thieves yeah and some not. so great but we'll get to that uh we. should do a little backstory here to. kind of set this all up and we are going. to go back to uh about aund close to 110. year period known as the century of. humiliation.

uh and this is when uh China was kind of. getting just beat up on all fronts back. then um a lot of global Powers at the. time were kind of coming in and saying. you know what China you should just sort. of listen to us and do what we say um. particularly during the Opium Wars from. 1841 to. 1860 uh a lot of European countries in. the UK um forced China to you know to. accept treaties they didn't want to. accept uh force them to accept opium. import ports um I think it was um 19.

different countries uh you know opening. these treaty ports for imports from. those 19 countries and accept them and. basically said you have no choice in the. matter uh add to this later that Century. in the 1890s to 1900s when um China. battled with Japan which ended up losing. parts of Manchuria losing Taiwan um had. a lot of control over Korea at the time. that was you know they no longer had. control over MH and this all sort of.

leads up to the Chinese Communist Party. taking power and chairman ma zong saying. in 1949 uh we're not going to be subject. to insult and humiliation any longer. that Century of humiliation was a dark. part of our past and we need to forget. about it yeah so this idea this concept. of the century of humiliation was coined. by Mao and in the 21st century the. Chinese Communist party that Mao founded.

have kind of um really kind of used that. as a a point of Pride and as a point of. um Unity among the country which is. really interesting because it's it's. they they view it as a really shameful. period of their history and yet they it. does generate pride in them and brings. them together and I think a sense of. like we're going to overcome that we're. never going to go back to that but. that's a change from how Chairman Mao. approached it he was like we're never. turning backwards and in fact everything.

that reminds us of the past we're just. going to destroy so go into museums go. into libraries go into um you know. anywhere that like landmarks things that. remind us of the past they they call. them the four olds um that were just. meant to be destroyed and it was the. cultural revolution is what they called. it um and that's how it was approached. for the for about 50 years and then. finally it kind of turned and then it. that Pride kind of extended to Chinese.

Antiquities and in particular today in. China there's a tremendous amount of. there's a tremendous sense of loss over. um some particular items that came from. a particular place called the uh Yuan. Ming Yu uh The Garden of perfect. brightness I think is what it's called. but um less formly it's called the old. Summer Palace um it's in Beijing I. believe and it was magnif.

from what I can tell yeah it was uh and. these aren't the only things I mean all. Chinese um artifacts and cultural relics. were uh looked at this way but this was. just a pretty notable space at the time. uh it was built in 1709 and then for the. next century and a half basically just. got bigger and bigger and it had temples. it had Gardens and pools uh and it had a. lot of art um all kinds of art like you. name it they had it uh some of the most. important art of you know that period of.

China and and preceding it and during. the second Opium War in. 1860 uh the Europeans U you know were. again coming in and kind of doing their. thing against China and uh the. government of China said um you know. what you have some people here on a. negotiating Mission we're going to. capture them we're going to torture them. and so British I think about 5,000. British and uh French forces took part. in What has been uh kind of looked back.

on now is one of the greatest acts of. cultural vandalism in modern history mhm. um when they uh looted and either stole. or just could just outright destroyed or. vandalize um everything at the old. Summer Palace essentially yeah um they. were apparently already in the process. of looting the palace when they heard. about the the um torture deaths of that. that um delegation that was trying to. broker peace for the second Opium War um. and they're like oh okay well I guess.

we'll burn the place down too and they. did so over I think two days and nights. but the fire kept going for like 3 days. and rather than. rebuild China decided to preserve the. place in Ruins it's kind of like. Hiroshima like they decided to preserve. some of the bombed out areas is just a. reminder but um rather than a reminder. to to never use nukes ever again this. was a reminder to China of like what um. outside Powers did to China like this is.

what happened to China in the past and. it's something to um use to kind of um. motivate you to to become the best kind. of China there is that could never let. something like that happen again yeah um. a lot of this stuff is you would imagine. like a lot of you know looted things. during wartime ended up in control of. royalty in other countries uh Private. Collection sometimes but a lot of uh. Royal palaces in Europe ended up with. this stuff um Queen Victoria even and.

this is a great little find from Livia. uh besides art Queen Victoria apparently. also got a peanes dog that she named. Ludy as in loot yeah as in the dog. itself was looted yeah exactly uh and I. think it was the first peines in all of. England I would believe it I also read. that um at the time the Press reported. that the dog had to be taken to a. different Palace because it was being. ostracized by the other dogs for its um. Eastern ways whatever that.

means well one of the most prized sort. of uh things at this Palace was this. water clock and it was you know don't. think of it as a normal clock because it. was what it really was was a big. Fountain and the 12 spouts were uh. carved in the shape of the heads of the. animals of the Chinese zodiac and. whenever one of the um fountains. squirted that was what time it. was so that was uh became a really big. symbol of this this whole looting. basically.

um it was in the European wing of the of. the palace but it went away and part of. and again there were you know some of. these um some of the repatriation and. and these thefts as we'll see was was. all kinds of stuff but it seems like. that these Fountain heads hold. particular significance they're the most. symbolic so again this Summer Palace. stuff it was just such a big deal like. you said the one of the biggest acts of. cultural vandalism ever it's such a. symbol in this country of China's shame.

and these things are like the the. greatest symbol of that that larger. symbol like these zodiac heads mean. everything to China and to get them back. is enormous the Communist Party kind of. took a shift especially as as China. became more and more economically. powerful and it started to kind of look. at um getting some of these Antiquities. back rather than looking at them as. reminders of some ter backwards past.

they they became part of China's. Heritage and the Chinese government in. particular started to want to get these. back and they started a kind of a trend. I think culturally that was like Hey. start having pride in this these um. Heritage Antiques and um let's see if we. can get them back into China how who. cares just go get them yeah and one good. way to do that is to have a ton of money. so a lot of billionaires uh from China. obviously step forward and and showed a. lot of interest in growing their.

collections or probably even starting. and then growing their collections of. Chinese art from history and some of. them even opened private museums to. Showcase this stuff uh they were working. with the auction houses very closely and. like you mentioned earlier the uh. Chinese art Market it went from really. not much of anything in uh the year 2000. to about a billion dollars a year in. value by 2018 wow um especially the. stuff that was looted uh by the UK and.

by Europe and and the United States um. and like I said it's everything you can. think of it's you know statues paintings. carvings any kind of art you can imagine. uh the according to UNESCO um close to. 1.7 million Chinese objects are. currently held uh in 47 countries other. than China in 200 different museums and. those are just museums in just 47. countries I saw that the Chinese. government itself estimates that there's. about 10 million Antiquities spread.

throughout the world outside of China. and China considers basically all of. these stolen um even if a Westerner came. in and paid for them back in 1900 they. they the Chinese government basically. considers uh whoever sold it to have. been taken advantage of by that. Westerner so if you have a piece of. Chinese art and antique that's Chinese. um hang on to it there's a you may want. to hide it actually cuz there's a good. chance that China considers that stolen.

and that that's not rightfully yours. maybe there's some law in your country. that says it's yours China doesn't. really recognize that. because in a lot of cases they weren't. um they weren't sold legitimately they. were stolen they were part of War loot. uh like with the old Summer Palace and. they have a great Point there's a lot of. stuff out there not just from China but. from other countries that Colonial. powers went to and said we really like.

this we're going to literally steal it. and we're going to display it in our. museums and 150 years from now you're. going to ask for it back and we're going. to say. no yeah but we're going to ask for our. stuff back and get most of it right. after World War II right yeah which. we'll you know we'll talk more about. that I guess in a little bit but um as. far as the government's uh involvement. uh officially um there was one group. called The China poly group it's a. state-owned Industrial company and it. was originally part of the Chinese.

military and they they traded arms but. in 2000 they said you know what let's uh. diversify and let's start a wing of this. company uh called poly culture and let's. make it one of our missions to go and. get some of these artifacts uh they had. their own museum to put some of these in. in Beijing so that was one of the big. sort of groups trying to to head up this. effort right uh along with the Chinese. billionaires uh and then in. 2000 um SES and Christie auction houses. in Hong Kong auctioned off three of.

those heads three of those zodiac. Fountain heads right and this was a big. deal the the Chinese Bureau of cultural. relics was like you can't uh sell this. stuff like this stuff's really important. to us it was stolen it was looted um. they uh had no luck I think they were. trying to get it back for free and they. eventually said all right well we'll. just bid on it and get it the. oldfashioned way which they did right. okay so in 2000 China China as far as. like it's search for um repatriating its.

art in Antiquities was so powerless that. Christies and S the bees felt. comfortable telling the government of. China sorry no we're not going to give. these back to you less than 10 years. later in 2009 when the estate of East. Eve St lauron um went up for auction. China contacted Christies and said hey. you're about to auction off two more of. those zodiac heads if you do it it's. going to be really bad for you and and. China had become such a player in the.

global Art Market that Christies would. they handed them over they gave them to. them uh and in exchange I think. Christies was the first auction house to. have a independent or license to. independently operate in China within. the next year or something like that so. that's how powerful they became and then. also is kind of a nod to how valuable. Chinese Antiquities became when China. started to become interested in them. there was a an auction in 2015. less than two decades after China became.

interested in its own Heritage um the. pre-sale of this um the 16inch vase. sorry this is 2010 a 16-inch vase. pre-sale value was. $800,000 a half hour after it went under. the gavl uh it sold for almost $70. million to a Chinese billionaire it's a. lot of dough it is it also just shows. how bad they want the stuff back because. there's one other thing Chuck you. mentioned the billionaires getting. involved not just one way to show off.

how much money they have it's also to. show everybody how patriotic they are. because they're buying these things at. astronomical prices to bring back to. China for China for sure uh so let's. take a break and we'll come back and. talk about what China was going to do. about this officially right after this. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].

[Music]. all right so we're back and wondering. what China was going to officially do. about this in. 2009 um the government said you know. what we're all are off now we're. officially going to get a a treasure.

hunting team together and we're going to. go send them around the world and. investigate all this art that's in the. United States that's in Europe that's in. the UK um one of these guys one of the. chief detectives whose name was uh liou. Yang and he went all over the place and. he was like hey um this was in the. Summer Palace this was in the Summer. Palace you guys have our stuff and they. noticed kind of not too long after that. a lot of these museums on their website. areed sort of quietly removing uh.

mentions and web pages about these. Chinese artifacts on their websites yeah. Lu Yang had quite a reputation I read in. that Alex Palmer GQ article that he. wrote a comprehensive book on all the. looted Antiquities at least from the old. Summer Palace uh and could show you. printouts of of websites from from. museums around the world where that. thing was being held so I guess there. was also a really tense meeting at um. the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New. York when he showed up too because he.

would just walk around and be like. that's China's that's China's that was. stolen that was looted um and very. strangely that was what' you say. 2009 yeah the very next year um this the. string of Museum heists of Chinese. Antiquities. began yeah for sure uh I did want to. point out though when I was making the. previous point that they took down these. websites but uh not everybody because. the uh F time blue. in France was one of those that were.

like no you can see right here on our. website we'll tell you like what this is. and when and where it was looted uh like. what palace was sacked at the time so. they kind of you know held held firm in. their belief that it was theirs I guess. um but yeah these these robberies. started in. 2010 and we don't know exactly how many. these have happened we're going to talk. about quite a few of these but um they. were detailed in the GQ article and then. since 2018 there's also been more and it.

seems like it there may have been a. concerted effort and then other people. just started you know because they. became really valuable and there was a. market for it people kind of piggybacked. on stealing this Chinese art and that. the entire thing may not be some you. know complete masterminded by one group. or government kind of thing yeah that. was my interpretation too yeah so. apparently the whole thing started in um. uh Stockholm Sweden at the dra dring. Palace which is well a Swedish Royal.

Palace and they have a Chinese Pavilion. there and there's a state-owned. collection of Chinese. Antiquities uh and on August 6th. 2010 they it was quite a surprise. because um there was a group of cars. that were set fire to elsewhere in. Stockholm and um as the police ran over. there and were very much distracted by. these sudden car fires cuz usually means. Riot so I can imagine that put the.

police on edge uh the thieves ran over. to the um Palace in their China um. Pavilion Chinese Pavilion and started. ransacking some specific items I think. they smashed three display cases and I'm. not sure how many items they stole but I. believe it seemed pretty specific and. they were out of there in six minutes so. they were clearly Pros do you think the. Swedish police were like guys we might. have our first riot in the country. history like I've been waiting for this.

since I was a boy I've been told a. carfire means a riot they were like what. is a riot and I like well spinn will. explain it to you right spinn's been out. of the country before uh so yeah Smash. and grab six minutes in and out they. hopped on some mopeds uh they drove. those over to a lake and they got on a. boat and they got out of there and this. was a a very sort of you know clearly. professional job knew exactly what they. were going for and you'll see you know. in a lot of these cases it's pretty.

similar like they knew where the stuff. was they knew exactly what they wanted. on their little grocery list like you. mentioned right uh the next one was a. few months after that at the uh code. Museum in Norway um they busted a glass. ceiling and uh not not in a good way and. repelled down just like a movie yeah. just like Charles groden and Miss pigy. that's right and took 56 things from the. China collection there um a lot of this. stuff was from a Norwegian arm officer. named Johan vilhelm Norman Mt who was a.

big art guy uh eventually fought on. China's side in the Ceno Japanese Wars. in 1894 and 1895 but he was big into art. had a lot of this stuff uh including. stuff from the Summer Palace and that. stuff was taken in the first of the code. museums burglaries right yeah there was. another one what 3 years later and this. is a big deal when a museum gets struck.

like it's not good especially if word. gets out because as Livia was pointing. out museums a lot of times don't. announce the fact that they've been. robbed number one it's it's very. humiliating because they're intrusted. with protecting these things that are. part of Humanity's cultural heritage and. then secondly it also practically means. that they need to beef up security. because now thieves are on alert like oh. the code museum is really easy to break. into they'll become a much bigger Target.

so to for two different break-ins to. become public knowledge it's it's just. not really a good thing but it was also. very curious that they were both they. both seemed to be Chinese art heists um. right after that they suddenly became. very interested in um negotiating with. China to give back some of the. Antiquities that they held and in. particular a Chinese billionaire named. hang nubo um I'm quite sure that's not. exactly how you say his last name um. because I said it like I'm from.

Mississippi or something um he came to. um Stockholm or no Bergen and said what. what do you got I can give you a. donation if you want and they showed him. some columns from the old Summer Palace. and I read that he wept when he saw them. yeah and this was a case where they used. the carire thing again which is really. surprising to use sort of the same. method hey it works it works in. Scandinavia I guess so but it just seems. like that would be a tip off maybe like.

watch the museum because you know Sweden. and Norway aren't big Riot countries as. far as I know I would hope it would be. now you know after two yeah yeah I would. think after one but anyway they use the. same method uh they ended up the mum at. uh code closed the China collection for. renovation uh when that was in 2013 and. it's still closed for renovation so if. that tells you anything I don't I'm not. sure if that thing's opening again. anytime soon no I think by renov they. mean the head curators in the basement.

clutching the remaining objects to their. chest exactly get back get away um so. the Swedish burglars and both code. burglars were not caught but um kind of. an indicator that really does point a. bit of a finger at China someone in. China um they got a tip the code Museum. did um from the publicity the second. robbery brought they got a tip about one. of the objects that was stolen in the. first robbery um that it was in a.

Shanghai airport on. display um so that does kind of show you. that China's very much like where'd you. get this who cares they probably didn't. even ask that unless they were. congratulating and so when Norway found. this out they did they decided not to do. anything about it because they had just. recently ticked China off by giving the. 2010 Nobel Peace Prize to Chinese. dissident Lou jao jao Who was uh. prisoned at the time in China um so.

China wasn't happy with Norway so Norway. was like you just keep your airport. Antiquity we're going to just not say. anything about it exactly um so that was. Scandinavia uh and England around the. same time this was April of 2012. meanwhile in England uh the Fitz William. museum at Cambridge was robbed there. were 18 items taken from here again very. specific Chinese artifacts uh these were. valued between 8 and 23 million bucks uh. the same month in England the Malcolm.

McDonald Gallery at uh Durham. University's Oriental Museum was hit and. they took two items this time but they. were super valuable they were $3 million. between the two of them uh but these. guys were caught they finally nabbed. somebody um the judge said and. sentencing that uh they displayed crass. ineptitude because um they stashed the. stuff in a sort of a swamp a partial of. land that was super swampy went back to. get couldn't find where they put it and.

a witness saw somebody like searching. the area and was really agitated on. their cell phone seemed suspicious. phoned it in and authorities uh searched. the area and not only uh found the. objects but eventually um arrested dudes. they did they got some people from what. I was reading up about it they were like. in their early. 20s not very Pro I think they were upand. cominging criminals is the impression. that I have but I think crass and. eptitude says it all it really does they.

also this is another giveaway um the. police found a cell phone in one of. their underpants while they were being. arrested and they used that cell phone. to kind of build a case that connected. that Heist to I think the um Cambridge. Heist and a bunch of other ones actually. and they ended up um tracing it back to. a group of Travelers like Brad Brad Pit. and snatched yeah snatch now snatched is.

that um the Amy what's her name oh yeah. yeah Amy Schumer Schumer yes thank you. that was a stupid Sidetrack but um so. the these were real life Travelers uh. and they had a gang called the wrath. Keel Rovers and they were responsible. for a bunch of different burglaries and. robberies and things like that but they. seem to be behind all of the Chinese art. heists in the country What's significant. about it is that there was a member of. this gang named chi chong Donald Wong he.

was from South London and he seems to be. their Chinese connection because he kept. traveling in and out of the country. going to China and smuggling their uh. loot over there and I don't think they. recovered a single thing from those. heists did they uh I don't think so. um yeah I mean they figured the stuff. was just successfully smuggled and. eventually sold and private collectors. have them but this was um I was I was. sort of just surprised for some reason.

that these were you know Irish travelers. and I just figured they would all be. Chinese people uh but yeah they were. just hired robbers basically so I was. like oh okay once I wrap my head around. that they were just doing a job for. money exactly so the question remains. though because the police are like we. never caught the the highest person at. the top of this the head cheese the. Ultima ombre that kind of person um and. they think that even if they had found. that person that person was probably.

commissioned by Chinese Mafia Chinese. billionaires maybe the poly group um who. knows uh but that seems to be the case. for all of the robberies where they. found the people who carried out the. robbery they were just hired criminals. they were not they they were not doing. this because you know they love China or. something like that they were either. commissioned to or they knew that the. Chinese art Market was so hot that it. would just make sense to steal Chinese. objects cuz they were going to fetch a.

pretty high price yeah um should we take. another break yeah all right we'll take. a break and we'll talk about more heists. right after this. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].

[Music]. okay Chuck so we're back and you. promised talk of more heists and I'm. going to take us to France won't you. come with me I love France how about. France in 2015 wasn't that a. particularly pretty summer I think or. spring I think it was well let's go find. out because on March 1st 2015 at the. Chateau Fountain Blue outside Paris uh.

which is a I think beginning back in. medieval times one of the homes of the. French monarchs um there was a. collection assembled by Empress Eugene. who was the wife of Napoleon III she was. the last Empress of France and she put. together um a collection of at least 800. objects that those were just the ones on. display 300 of them these were Chinese. objects Antiquities 300 of them were. from the old Summer Palace alone mostly. taken by French soldiers who were there.

to sack um the the old Summer Palace in. 1860 right yeah yeah so uh I think. thieves when they broke into the. fountain blue in 2015 they made off with. like 15 different things one of which. sticks out to me it was a replica of the. king of siam's Crown Siam is Now. Thailand and that really has very little. to do with China it was certainly not a. Chinese Heritage object from what I can. tell H that one seems a little hinky to.

me I'm not sure if that was a. commissioned robbery or not but. regardless I don't oh they did find uh. at least some of the people who were. behind it and again these were just. Hired Guns. basically yeah and it was you know sort. of the same pattern as before as far as. getting in and out of there and it uh in. this time it was you know they were. pretty good at what they were doing uh. even though like you said they got six. of them uh they questioned them didn't. they they still couldn't get the big. fish you know I guess they're uh maybe.

not good at. questioning but they couldn't they. couldn't land the the whale uh. unfortunately um Paul Harris is an art. dealer from uh Britain who he thought it. was French professional criminals who. did this again just hired people in one. case Irish travelers in this case uh. French you know art uh art thieves I. guess yeah pretty good specialty um this. apparently was the origin of the phrase.

no. Sherlock so uh if you look at you know. research on this um a lot of the uh. research will say like hey um all of. these events are sort of part of this. larger operation like we've been talking. about uh since that article though I. mentioned there have been other um other. you know art Heist other crimes uh there. was one in June of 2019 at the Museum of. Far Eastern art in Switzerland this time.

in Geneva uh took some couple of things. from the uh Ming Dynasty and less than a. minute this time uh they had DNA. evidence in this case and they did catch. the people uh these were British dudes. uh they said they were just trying to. make money to pay off a debt so again it. looks like another um either hired. people to return these or just people. being hired out because this stuff's. valuable or just guys doing it because. they know it's valuable yeah yeah it's. just too it's just you can't you don't.

know for sure you know no that again. that hot Chinese art Market kind of. dilutes the possibility that the Chinese. government um there was one there was a. second robbery on the fountain blue or. an attempt the police broke it up before. it could happen in uh operation. bamboo the I guess Spanish and French. police got together and they said let's. get these guys and they did before they. could Rob the place and those guys said. that they were hired by the Chinese. Mafia and that they had been going after.

three specific pieces of art um Chinese. art and uh I don't think that that led. anywhere either I think also though even. if you could trace it back to say the. ply group or um the the Prime Minister. um it it wouldn't matter China would. basically just say so or they would deny. it or whatever and everybody needs to be. essentially an at least good econ e omic. terms with China right now that it's.

just the issue's not going to get. pressed so it doesn't really matter it's. more just a academic kind of interesting. thing to try to track it back to who's. behind it it's not actually going to. result in any kind of geopolitical. differences no of course not uh as far. as the Chinese government you know this. this whole time they've maintained like. hey this this isn't us that's doing this. uh the polyculture group I believe the. uh the general manager even um talked to. the global times about it and said it.

was a nonsense story The GQ story uh we. may Sue I don't think anything ever. became of that my dad's gonna seee you. yeah do with that what you will uh but. you know their official position as a. government is like all of that stuff is. illegitimate like everything you own you. own illegally um there's nothing like uh. if you have one of like they had one in. the airport like you mentioned if you. have something like this in a in your. private collection the Chinese.

government doesn't dissuade any of that. um I don't know that they officially. encourage it but they uh they definitely. don't say like hey um you have the. stolen thing in your private collection. no and there's no apparently there's no. legal repercussions for it either even. if somebody from Norway or Sweden came. over and said this is ours like this was. stolen from our Museum China would just. be like well there's no laws here that. that could punish whoever did this so go. home um and the you they officially.

apparently do discourage theft but. because the item could become damaged in. the robbery right yeah yeah that's why. not because it violates any laws or. treaties or anything like that because. again there's a lot of soreness from. um the the idea that these things were. stolen and there's I mean it's not even. like they make a good case that's. exactly what happened historically and. so I was trying to figure out like okay. if there's museums around the country.

that you know there's this growing. movement for. repatriation uh here in America we have. like the indigenous Graves act which is. like if you have Native American remains. in your Museum collection you should. give them back to the to the group who. um from from which they came so that. they can you know bury their remains or. do whatever custom they they do rather. than keeping them in a museum collection. um that's a good example of the this. kind of um growing awareness of of a.

responsibility museums have for giving. stuff back that was stolen from a. country but museums just aren't really. going with it and I was looking at it um. and I sent you I think some parts of a I. think a artsy article um that talks. about this like China Greece um Nigeria. they're all like you guys have some. really important cultural Treasures of. ours so give them back and museums are. basically saying like no you you won't.

be able to take good care of them we can. take better care of them and then I. think the British museum was just. discovered to have suffered an extensive. robbery from inside that really kind of. undermines that argument that you know. they can protect these things better. than the countries can because the this. curator at the British museum stole. something like 2,000 pieces from the. Museum's collection was selling them on. eBay so it's not like China and other. countries don't have a legitimate claim. to this it's just more like Western.

museums are just basically they're just. digging in and saying like no we're not. going to give these back yeah I think if. every piece of ill gotten art whether it. was through looting or stealing or even. uh you know started out that way and. then were purchased and repurchased like. the there'd be a lot of half empty. museums if only like super legitimate. legitimately acquired art was on display. yeah maybe even more than half and I I. that's got to be ultimately the reason.

why they don't want to do it yeah. they're like what are we going to put in. the Chinese art wi right of the Met yeah. uh exact I think also in the UK in. particular they have a law that says. museums aren't allowed to repatriate um. cultural artifacts to other countries. and they're like yep that's the law and. I think the Chinese government it's like. that's your law you can change that law. stop hiding behind that so yeah I agree. yeah I mean there were a couple of. instances where I'm like okay this makes.

sense to not give it back like if. there's a lot of um instability and. turmoil in that country another one that. really kind of stuck out to me is if the. the cultural heritage is now divided. among multiple countries so let's say it. was a. Yugoslavian item and now yeah. Czechoslovakia and Slovenia they're both. saying like that's ours that's a that's. a Tickler spot but for the most part if. it's you know a stable country is like. that's ours give it back especially if.

it was looted there really shouldn't be. any discussion about that I'm with you. you got anything else I got nothing else. oh well you can look out for a movie by. crazy Rich Asians director John mchu. coming out sometime soon Netflix is. going to have something based on Grace D. Le's novel portrait of a thief and. there's a 2012 Jackie Chan movie called. cz12 about this very kind of stuff. Jackie Chan uh well since Chuck said.

Jackie Chan he unlocked list. mail uh all right this is on swamp. coolers hey guys you talked about swamp. coolers in the uh history of. refrigeration episode we live in Santa. Fe New Mexico at 7,000 FT elevation. where it's historically hasn't gotten. hot enough to need air conditioning uh. although summers are getting hotter here. with a couple of weeks in the high to. mid 90s every year now uh it's pretty. hot our house was a custom built house. in uh 2005 and it does not have AC so we.

bought a portable swamp cooler last. summer to help just on those handful of. really hot days when it's too hot to. sleep and uh it's really effective I. have to say in the dry Desert Air some. people have whole house swamp coolers on. the roof with thermostats inside uh they. use a lot less energy than AC so they're. a good option in places where it's dry. and not too hot uh they only lower the. temperature 10 to 15° that's not bad at. all um so anything 95. uh we get for a short time wouldn't. really work I disagree 80 to 95 is is.

pretty substantial yeah for sure uh but. that is from uh Chandra thanks a lot. Chandra whole house swamp cooler can't. you just see like the tops like open and. it says igloo and giant letters on the. side yeah sounds like a record name too. like an album title whole house swamp. cooler yeah like the Chickasaw Mud. Puppies or something very nice Chuck. very nice uh well if you want to be like. Chandra and ride in and tell us about. something that we talked about that's. whole house size we love hearing that.

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