What was the Skeleton Army? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. [Music]. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and well I was. going to say Jerry's here but that would. be a dirty filthy. lie true she's not here it's you and me. Chuck yeah it's about say just like the. old days but Cherry was around from the. beginning I wasn't around from the. beginning man so I guess this is uh a.

periodical situation we find ourselves. in just like the periodical. situation uh can I say a couple of quick. things. here yes first of all uh I want to. congratulate listener Corey Wagner. because this topic is from Corey nice. way to go Corey yeah listener suggestion. which is great MH uh and also want to. officially uh welcome uh Mr Gibson.

Bryant into the family the new puppy oh. yeah he's cute he's cute uh Gibson is uh. was being fostered through the lifeline. organization that we work with a lot. here in Atlanta and uh foster mom Rachel. was just wonderful and Gibson's a little. hound Shepherd mix and he's awesome. MH and it's great so far so good he's. just he and the cats they got to they. got to work it out so far uh it's not. great oh no so it just takes a little.

time I figure you know a week or two. usually is uh is based on like uh when. we've dog sat other dogs uhhuh because. the cats love dogs our dogs but like a. new dog comes in and they're. like yeah they've go to he has to prove. himself to them yeah they just gota you. know they got to work it out it'll take. a little time but he's a very sweet boy. um he looks he's fitting right in he. looks like it I guess you've posted. pictures on your Instagram page uh yeah.

Gibson's on there uh Chuck the podcaster. if you want to check out this handsome. little leggy boy nice well welcome. Gibson congratulations Chuck yeah to the. stuff you should know family the stuff. you should know. Army I see where this is going it is I. normally would have just left it at yes. the stuff you should know family but the. reason the stuff you should know Army. ties into this because we're talking. about armies but fake armies.

when believe it or not the stuff you. should know Army is a fake Army oh. really there's not a lot of like. interational conflict or killing or. shooting of machine guns with the stuff. you should know Army so yes I would say. it's a fake Army well what's the very. definition of army I don't even know a. group that engages in international. conflicts and kills and shoots machine. guns actually uh well no it can be a. large number of people uh organized for. a purpose like an army of photog.

photographers I gu I guess so I think. those are called gaggles though okay. geese and photographers okay no offense. men of course who are great people at. this stuff you should know Army because. they're the greatest um yeah so there. are other armies that are whose. um um patterns of killing are. questionable at best and that includes. both the Salvation Army but less so the. skeleton army because if any of the. groups I've just mentioned just now or.

the closest resemblance to an army it. would be the skeleton army probably and. this is one I had not even heard of. until Corey Wagner sent this in same and. uh so yeah I just thought we should dive. in um a little bit on the Salvation Army. first probably right yeah I'm sure. people are like guys what are you. talking about with the Salvation Army. just wait hold your horses please yeah. you've probably heard of the Salvation. Army they are uh I mean they're an. international organization at this point. right yes uh they have been doing it.

since the. 1870s I believe late. 1870s um and their their mission is to. um basically combat poverty where it's. at like they go to where poverty is at. and apparently in the United States. alone they serve 23 million people a. year so they're doing some significant. work and I don't want to walk past the. fact that they're also a pretty. controversial organization especially. today.

um they're a a Christian organization a. Protestant Christian organization at its. core from their founding so they have um. uh sometimes um unfriendly views or have. held unfriendly views toward. lgbtq plus um community and now they've. kind of revised it to say like yeah we. don't we don't mind just don't tell us. that you're gay you can come work with. us anytime you want and that's not quite. enough but at the same time there's. people who are on the conservative um.

Christian right who are like that's too. far so the Salvation Army finds itself. in a very ticklish position right now um. and I just that doesn't have anything to. do with this particular episode but I. think it'd be kind of disingenuous to to. just not mention that at all yeah uh. they were founded by a gentleman named. George Booth uh he was born in England. in Nottingham in. 1829 and was a Methodist preacher uh at. first and was you know the picture I get.

of George Booth from kind of reading up. on him is that he kind of from the start. was a bit of a rabble Rouser within the. church as far as like you know he was. into street preaching he was uh. frustrated with the with the sort of. formalities of the church the. hierarchies of the church uh probably. felt like you know the church isn't. helping the people that are most in need. was maybe a little too disconnected from. uh poverty and like the the real people. people out on the streets and so that.

was sort of his it seems like he was. charged from the beginning like within. himself to do something bigger than just. be a standard Methodist preacher yeah. exactly um yeah I get the impression you. kind of touched on it that he probably. viewed the church as an institution as. really detached from the people who. needed its help most so he started an. organization he decided to kind of go. help people where they're at so he. started street preaching apparently.

based on American revivalists of the. early 19th century um and like he would. just stand on the street corner and. preach and so too would his wife um this. is a time where if you were super. religious like this and you said women. can preach too and let's go help the. poor directly that was deeply. Progressive at the time in England. England was so ridiculously sty. conservative that I read about a a. magazine.

um that in its inaugural Edition. promised that it would do um nothing to. um to help along this this morbid desire. for change that they were just going to. keep things exactly the way that they. were and that's what the establishment. wanted people like George buther like. that's not working for a whole huge. segment of society yeah his wife. Katherine uh Mumford when they married. uh played a big part played a big part. in this whole story actually so uh you. can kind of put a no don't put a pin in.

her she's she's there I could see the. skeleton army putting a pin in her no. pin necess or maybe flinging a dead rat. her way yeah uh so in 18 as The Story. Goes at least in. 1878 uh he was dictating a letter and he. said the Christian Mission uh is a. volunteer army Capital C capital M and. then he said no no no strike that and. perhaps Struck it himself and crossed. out volunteer and wrote down salvation. uh a Salvation Army and that was sort of.

you know I Salvation Army is so. ubiquitous especially around Christmas. time in the United States when they uh. you will people I think generally sort. of associate Salvation Army with either. dropping off uh clothes and toys that. you don't want at a Salvation Army store. sure or buying things from a Salvation. Army store or or around Christmas when. they have Santa Clauses ringing that. Bell uh with that kettle outside and. they are asking people to donate their.

spare change or what have you yes and if. you know by Christmas time you get. annoyed at that ringing of the Bell that. you hear all the time count your lucky. stars that you weren't born in England. in the uh 1870s because you would have. been super annoyed by the Salvation Army. at that time yeah absolutely um and I. that was sort of my deal with the. Salvation Army that's how I knew them uh. and I do I knew they did you know. obviously a lot of charitable works but. but I didn't really ever stop to think.

about the whole Army. thing uh the the military aspect because. when I uh earlier said like an army can. be just a collection of people that. wasn't how they meant it like they meant. it as in you know not we're going to. take up arms but they gave themselves. they wore uniforms they gave themselves. military ranks uh Booth named himself. the general and it became like I think. their newspaper was called the war cry. uh their initiation Creed were called. The Articles of War they really sort of.

uh I don't want to say leaned into I'm. really trying to stop saying that they. were um army. forward yeah they were very Army forward. in a sort of militaristic sense but. again not like Hey we're going to you. know start a real war but they were just. like we're we're warriors for uh for. Christ basically yeah to be initiated. you had to kill a man with your bare. hands they were pretty serious about the. Army thing yeah but the the reason that. they were so into the army that was part.

of the Zeitgeist at the time this is the. Victorian age the um the English Empire. is at its peak at the time and the. English Empire got that way because of. the military so the military is highly. regarded um so it kind of made sense to. to kind of go with that it'd be like. today um oh boy it'd be like fashioning. yourself after the swifties if you were. founding like a new Rescue Mission. organization.

I would mess with them no you would you. would not so he had he he established. this in pretty short order um he he. started to use the Salvation Army to to. just it it it was set up to to achieve. his aims MH and his as we've kind of. touched on a little bit but they're. pretty straightforward and the biggest. one really is if you want to help poor. people go to the poor people and help. them directly that's how you help poor. people that that's just just what you. have to do you have to get your hands.

dirty as it was that was pretty much the. foundation of of the Salvation Army and. from what I can tell it's a big part of. it still today yeah absolutely which is. great uh their Mantra was uh soup soap. salvation uh in other words you know. help feed the poor help uh I mean soap I. don't think they literally meant help. clean them but they they may have uh. just sort of to I think that sort of. stood for uh lift people out of poverty.

and uh and also bring them to Christ I. mean that was a big part of it uh we. can't ignore that and as pertains say. what bring them to who Christ Jesus. Christ oh oh Jesus Christ I got you you. did you think I met Jimmy. Christ Billy real last name I don't. think so I think think Chris get run out. of town on a rail how was pronounced. people would say Chris these days right. sure sure I mean that that's got to be. last name c h r i s t yes if we have any.

listeners out there who that's your last. name and you go by Christ please write. in we want to hear all about your life. yeah especially if it's Jimmy Christ I. would love to know you uh and another. big part as it especially as it pertains. to the skeleton army uh who we'll learn. about here in a minute is that alcohol. is bad they were way way into the. temperance movement and alcohol was just. a big big evil and that would Factor. really really heavily into the goings on.

between the Salvation Army and the. skeleton army yes they also like we said. women can preach that was very radical. very Progressive at the time um and they. also were super into music I don't I I. didn't see why I guess General Booth. himself was particularly into music. because again this whole this whole. organization seems like an extension of. him and his wife as well um I don't want. to just call her that uh cther.

Catherine's um views as well I think. they kind of jibed really well together. but they're into the same bands exactly. there was a um a quote that's often. attributed to George Booth um that may. or may not have been said by him but it. fits it's why should the devil have all. the best tunes and I'm pretty sure he. was making a a veiled reference to Black. Sabbath right and eventually uh. striper no he would have been way into. striper about that I was reading about. them the other day I can't believe I.

didn't tell you this did you how far did. you follow them when did you leave off. from striper when did I leave the. striper army yes uh I uh you know as I. sort of transitioned out of going to. church so that would have been like. middle high school so they were still. doing like the the black and yellow. yellow and black attack yes I think that. was the name of one of their records uh. yeah I mean they were still around I. think this was right before they had. their they had like a secular ballad.

hit okay yes so that's yes they they you. transition and shortly after that they. transitioned and they left all that God. stuff behind and um released a couple of. albums and if they did not do very well. and I think they were pretty surprised. they thought well we'll just go more. mainstream and uh it didn't work they. were more successful mainstream wise as. a Christian uh Christian forward um. metal band than they were as like a.

regular metal band yeah the sweet. Brothers is that who they were yeah M. and Matthew Sweet like Matthew Sweet. like I I want you to be my girlfriend. Matthew Sweet No in fact maybe it wasn't. Matthew maybe I'm conflating but I know. Michael Sweet was I think he was the the. singer okay Michael Sweet and then I. think the drummer was Jimmy. Christ no. actually oh man I remember some of those. names I don't remember or maybe the. drummer was the other brother I remember. he played sideways oh did that's awesome.

which is interesting do you still have. the action figures uh no I don't know if. I still have that record I'll have to. look through my vinyl yeah you do uh. yeah I was into that for a little while. okay well at any rate I don't yeah I. just I don't remember how I was reading. about striper but I was reading all. about their career the other day I don't. know how I stumbled it's easy to fall. into a striper rabbit hole if you're of. a certain age I did yeah so um yeah they. were into music the thing is is and they.

wanted to use music not striper talking. back about the Salvation Army again. although they striper wanted to do the. same thing they wanted to use music to. get God's message across absolutely. unlike. striper they had zero musical talent but. we're very happy to be as loud as. possible so you know the image you have. of like Temperance people and like kind. of um uh old like goody two shoes. Christians in the 19th century banging. on a huge drum singing songs about Jesus. and all that sure that is based in.

reality that was a Salvation Army and. everyone who wasn't in the Salvation. Army loathed them for that yeah it was. pretty annoying if you were enjoying a. pint in a pub in the Salvation Army came. around yeah because in addition to going. to the poor where the poor were they. figured if you want to save Sinners go. to where the Sinners are so they would. storm into pubs and start singing. religious hymns at the top of their. lungs banging drums like telling people. they were going to hell and these people.

are just trying to unwind you know after. A Hard Day's Work at the Docks uh or who. knows or they had no job and they were. just getting loaded yeah or they're. celebrating a promotion at the docs I. don't know the thing is they did not. want to hear that at the time and even. if you weren't in the pubs just hearing. them go down the street preaching all. day Sunday sometimes during the week too. they really purposefully made a nuisance. of themselves because they were really. assertive and hostile almost in in.

shoving their message about um salvation. down everyone's throat whether they. wanted to hear it or not all right I. think that sets the stage time for a. break yes for sure all right for sure. we'll be right back after this you. [Music]. bet.

[Music]. all right so the stage is set the. Salvation Army is uh firmly in place and. they are going around aside from doing. great things for the poor they are going.

around and uh going to pubs and banging. their pots and pans and their drums and. they're singing all these uh religious. songs and the people do not like it so. that is the sort of the position that. they're in at this point um so what. forms is What's called the skeleton army. to literally combat the Salvation Army. uh Ed helped us out with this one and. there's um. I would I would argue that there aren't.

two Origins there's one origin but the. sort of second part of the origin story. we'll get to is that fair to say it's. fair but confusing sure all. right well the first you know basically. how they formed is what we've been. talking about they were literally just. annoyed at the Salvation Army uh coming. around telling them not to drink singing. songs and loudly preaching and. disrupting their their uh Pub time time. and so the initial sort of response was.

just cheering at them uh hey why don't. you sit down and have a beer you know. that kind of thing uh being very. sarcastic and then things started just. to escalate sort of little by little. because these were drunks basically. right uh and when you're someone. engaging a drunk and telling them not to. drink uh that's not going to go over too. well and tempers will genuinely flare at. some point yeah for sure um and I think. we said the Salvation Army set itself up.

in 1878 by 1879 the first newspaper. account of a clash between the Salvation. Army and people who hated the Salvation. Army made it into a newspaper um I think. there was a incident in Liverpool this. is not the first incident this is just. the first incident that got written up. in the paper right um and the reason it. got written up is because there was a. riot a riot people hated what the. Salvation Army was doing so much that. they would they would often trigger. riots whenever they they started doing.

their marches um and they they were. roundly blamed for this like at the time. as we'll see it kind of came out. differently in the end but everyone. blamed them for just existing and doing. what they were doing they they felt that. the Salvation Army was responsible for. the riots that the people who were. against the Salvation Army would carry. out when the Salvation Army came around. yeah exactly so uh 79 like you said was. the first no did one uh in Liverpool and.

then you know if you read uh. contemporaneous accounts uh which we did. of of the time they just started popping. up here and there uh in March of 81 uh. in the East End of London there were. some guys leaving a pub and they beat up. a bunch of Salvation Army uh I guess. what would they be called soldiers uh. yeah I think so okay uh there were some. salvationist women which they were. called Hallelujah lasses was a nickname.

uh that were entrapped uh with some rope. by the crowd they were getting hot coals. thrown at them uh and this sort of. played out how it played out in most. places things got pretty ugly when I. joked about uh throwing dead rats at. them I wasn't kidding that was a real. thing that they did apparently dead rats. and live cats in at least one instance. yeah there was another instance where. there was a guy who was. testifying um during a Salvation Army um. meeting and 40 people with chamber pots.

stormed the meeting and dumped urine all. over the man yeah that happened they. were they were in their own meeting they. weren't even out on the street or in a. pub that's how hated these people were. they would be physically assaulted they. would have um uh they would have just. all sorts of stuff thrown at them in. addition to dead rats dead fish um and. there were plenty of accounts of not. just men but also women and even. children being assaulted by the crowds.

like you said the Hallelujah lasses were. basically roped with hot coals thrown at. them there was a an account somewhere. that said between 12 months this would. have been in the probably the early. 1880s MH across England 669. salvationists 251 of those were women. were quote knocked down kicked or. brutally assaulted 56 buildings of the. army were stormed and partially wrecked. that was another thing that um people. against the Salvation Army like to do. they like to try to burn down their.

meeting Halls sometimes while they were. in it and then uh 86 salvationists 15 of. them women were thrown in prison so like. it was a it was a really like hardcore. thing to go out and do as a um Salvation. Army soldier yeah oh absolutely and so. yeah I hope he didn't paint it as as to. uh light of a brush like oh they would. just sort of you know yell at them and. Jer at them and throw dead rats and. things they got physically violent it. was not a good scene um the Salvation.

Army for their part uh when you. mentioned the music one thing that they. were fond of was uh and they still do. that today in England is they take. popular songs uh and change the words at. like soccer games at their football. games like these old school like Pub. singalongs they would change it to their. local pub or their local football team. or whatever and so the history of just. changing lyrics um I mean I say it's a. little lazy honestly maybe write a new. song all together but that's okay sure.

uh but they would do that the Salvation. Army would do that so they would take. popular pub songs change up the lyrics. to Suit them in their Christian message. uh Ed dug up some of the titles that. were pretty great uh oh every land is. filled with sin is not bad my favorite. is the Devil and me we can't agree I. hate him and he hates me it sounds like. agreement uh. so that's true now that I think about it. uh but this is this is what's going on. like this only angered the people in the.

pubs even more because they're like. those are our songs and there are hey. let's get drunk songs that we sing. together don't change them around and. sing them in our face cuz uh you know I. might assault you or dump urine on your. head yeah there was another song that. kind of gets across the Salvation Army. sentiments about the places they were. visiting it's called out of the gutters. we pick them yeah and there were I read. that there was um resentment among a lot. of the um lower. workingclass uh groups who were getting.

visited by these people being helped out. with their poverty stricken who were. like uh this is my neighborhood that. you're talking about and singing about. is the gutter so they offend they. managed to offend and annoy essentially. everybody and yet what was really. interesting about this is that they. started to grow like each Sunday there'd. be more and more of them and more and. more of them and You' they they would. like their meeting Hall would get bigger. and bigger because there were more.

Salvation Army members who had joined. who had been picked out of the gutter or. who had said I'm giving up the devil. drink or whatever reason had decided to. join the Salvation Army and were now the. very people who uh were annoying their. former selves yeah or their friends man. I'll bet that was uncomfortable oh man. uh so they had other tactics um the. Salvation Army had white uniforms so. they would try and Mar those uniforms in. a number of ways uh one is there was a.

narrow alley uh leading to one of their. meeting halls and they would paint a. sticky tar uh on the Alley walls they. would throw eggs uh that had blue paint. in them um they would then in turn. sometimes take the original Pub songs. that they had changed Salvation Army. into Christian songs back into more body. versions of their Christian songs and. sing them back into them MH uh and even. mess with their old uh sort of motto.

which was uh soup soap what was the. third one salvation soup soap salvation. to beer beef beer and Backa which is. tobacco which is pretty hilarious so. yeah so there people were getting. creative but it was also truly violent. at times it was and even if it wasn't. violent think about how annoyed you. wouldd be if you weren't on either side. cu the people who would give the. greatest resistance and and um in. hostility toward the Salvation Army were.

the exact same people that would do this. in a pub today 20s something's who are. like already feeling pretty Rowdy. probably the drunkest of the people in. the pub imagine just being like us Chuck. we're just trying to have like a beer in. the in a booth and not only is the. Salvation Army going off but now it's. being doubly Amplified because the other. people these hooligans are essentially. pushing back just as loud if not louder. I would just be like shut.

up well that's why we end up in a coffee. house and and we've lost all credibility. as school guys we could we end up in a. coffee house and we just bring our own. flasks right oh there you go we just. regain some credibility did we ever have. credibility as cool. guys I did I don't know about you I did. not yeah you did I did not yeah I'm a. cool guy and I know other cool guys. you've always been a cool guy man I did. not uh so so we should talk a little bit. about uh Susanna uh Bey um she was a.

captain in the Salvation Army uh who. died in either 1881 or. 1882 and the Salvation Army will say and. there are some contemporaneous accounts. to that we saw in newspapers and stuff. where she was essentially killed by the. skeleton army uh she was beaten I saw in. one of the newspapers that said she was. kicked in her womb I wish I was hoping. you weren't going to say that that is so. tough to hear even well and I don't know.

if that implies that she was pregnant. because I didn't see that I don't I. don't know I think that what they were. saying is she probably had internal. bleeding from from in her abdomen from. those injuries I couldn't quite tell but. uh at at the you know at the end of the. day she was uh killed uh by this. skeleton army which is you know horrific. and the Salvation Army today names her. and celebrates her as their first uh. martyr right um also some skeleton army. member was killed by a cop I think was. cracked in the head with a baton that's.

a skeleton army guy right yeah a. skeleton army guy but this sort of thing. didn't happen much in terms of the. skeleton army and the police because it. seems like the police in almost every. case was anti-s Salvation Army and it. looks like it depending on where you. were and what was going on and who the. particular uh cop was may have even sort. of helped things along or you know let. the skeleton army go and maybe aided.

them a little bit in a lot of these. riots yeah I I we kind of touched on it. earlier um that the The Establishment. wanted things just as they were they. didn't like this Progressive hostile. Christian group like organizing the. working classes right so they were since. they were already in charge they were. basically if not directly informing the. courts and the police like not to. intervene. against the skeleton army and certainly. if anything if you're going to arrest.

anybody arrest those rabble rousers the. Salvation Army so they had no like. formal structural like protection. essentially the cops just if they did. anything they usually arrested the. Salvation Army members most of the time. they didn't do anything because the. power structure in each town was pretty. much a diametrically opposed to the. Salvation Army yeah absolutely uh and. then in that one article that you sent. from back then uh uh it seems like a lot.

of these um counter-protests if you want. to call them that or these riers were. either Brewery owners or Brewery owners. and their employees so it it kind of. became like a literal uh war against. like Temperance and alcohol it was so. heavily intertwined right because these. Brewers were like we don't want these. people coming in here and and you know. the writing's on the wall of what's. going on in America and we're not going. to have a Prohibition so the Brewers and.

their employees are like fighting back. against these people preaching against. alcohol yeah and again it's I don't want. to like underestimate the impact that. these um the idea that they were. organizing the working class had on. scaring the upper class as well um. because at the time if if you were you. know wealthy if you had a title like you. were in charge if you were working class. you were not in charge you could just. the best you could hope for is that the.

the wealthy would look out for you when. they were making laws which probably. didn't work out very much so that was a. big part of it too and then also even. Protestants didn't like them because. remember George Booth was like I don't. like this church hierarchy stuff I'm. just going to go start preaching on the. corner that was very much carried into. the Salvation Army so um the Protestant. churches the methodists in particular. were like we don't like you the. Catholics really didn't like him because. there was that whole Catholic Protestant. division that dated all the way back to.

the 16th century um so basically no one. liked the Salvation Army and everyone. was essentially working against them. yeah for sure um depending. on uh I mean it depends on kind of where. you were and who was there as to how. violent this could get um if they if. there was like a sort of a younger more. Rabel rousing preacher uh a lot of times. times especially if it was a woman that. was coming in and leading the charge.

things could escalate a little more. quickly right uh I know there was a 20. uh 23-year-old woman uh a captain in the. Salvation Army named adah Smith who was. really enthusiastic and really like to. get in the faces of these dudes in the. pubs and uh other times you know it was. someone who maybe wasn't quite as in. your face and things didn't go quite as. sideways uh apparently if it was a. tourist town or a port Town had a lot to. do with it too right yeah for sure.

because um if it was a tourist town you. don't want like the Salvation Army. running around telling everybody they're. going to hell that's not good for. tourism so they're actually directly. affecting people's livelihoods that's. one if it's a port Town there's probably. a lot of drinking going on so the the. the people in the town don't want to. hear that uh it was if it was a a like. say A Country Town suburb of London um. it was probably a little more gential I.

get the impression that the more Rough. and Tumble the populace the more um. incidents of violence uh the the. Salvation Army faced but also I don't. want to make it sound like they weren't. triggering people they definitely were. that Captain A Smith you mentioned she. was in Worthing and Worthing was. essentially Ground Zero for riots that. took place in the mid 1880s like. straight up riots where the the people. were attacking the town hall because.

they're so upset about the Salvation. Army being around like they were they. were provoking people for sure I'm not. blaming them for riots like as we'll see. in a minute that they were but they. definitely were provoking people. intentionally as well yeah yeah for sure. um should we take another break yeah all. right we'll take our second break and. we'll talk about uh the sort of where. these guys might have come from on the. skeleton army side to begin.

[Music]. [Music]. [Music]. with. [Music].

so skeleton army um is kind of this. formalized term for the groups of people. who essentially organized to to try to. beat the Salvation Army out of town do. whatever they could to get rid of them. including lots and lots of violence and. again trying to burn down their meeting. halls and stuff and um the they there's. a a historian named um I think John hair.

who wrote an article in 1988 in folklore. that Ed uh found where he basically says. um there's a really high likelihood that. the um the skeleton armies actually grew. out of what are called the bonfire boys. or bonfire clubs who would celebrate the. 5th of November not the fifth of May but. the 5ifth of November um in the same way. that people used to celebrate um Devil's.

Night in Detroit by just burning down. everything in sight and marching and. just causing trouble and getting super. drunk yes uh and as a we'll probably do. one on this in full at some point but uh. remember remember the 5th of. May we're laughing because Josh said May. and we cut it out yeah or did we leave. it in I think we cut it out I guess. we'll see M uh the 5th of November um. goes back to if you anyone has ever seen.

the movie V for Vendetta so good uh with. Natalie Portman good movie guy Pi yeah. of course no uh and yeah was Guy Pierce. right no it was the weird um clone guy. from The. Matrix him oh he was yeah he was the. dude the uh Mr Anderson yes yeah what's. uh Hugh uh what's that guy's name Hugh. Lori uh in 1605 there were catholic. conspirators who tried to blow up.

Parliament uh because that would have. killed the Protestant King James I uh. and hope that there would be a Catholic. King uh to fill that role uh to fill. that power vacuum it's a great point and. and England would be you know back to. being a Catholic Nation uh after the the. split from uh in 1534 that you talked. about earlier that King Henry VII. brought about yep uh so remember. remember the 5th of November um every. November 5th there was and I believe.

still is just a lot of sort of. celebrations uh big parties big bonfires. uh they would light tar barrels on fire. uh it got pretty Rowdy and like you said. they were called the bonfire clubs and. there are historians and namely that one. guy you talked about who basically say. these guys were still around in the. 1870s and. 1880s and there's a lot of evidence that. kind of shows that they were probably. also like hey we we've got pitchforks.

we've got. torches uh we have the same sort of. anti-establishment attitude so we'll. just sort of start doing skele army. stuff as well right there was actually a. um a 1885 article in the Sussex Coast. Mercury newspaper that basically said. that they were um watching the the. skeleton Club the new skeleton Club. there in Worthing that had been formed. March and they were actually using the. old bonfire Club Banner like they didn't.

even bother to create a new one they. just basically SLA skeleton over bonfire. Club just to get the point across here. that like these were the exact same. people essentially they just took their. bonfire Club thing and actually directed. it toward a purpose it was purposeless. before it was all celebratory rabble. rousing now it was we're actually going. to use those same tactics to get the. Salvation Army out of town yeah exactly. um they the skeleton army would uh. usually black Their Faces Sometimes they.

did wear masks uh but to let each other. know like who they were they would wear. uh the color yellow somewhere a lot of. times with like a uh like a ribbon or. some kind uh or a sunflower to identify. one another and yeah it seems like that. they were just basically the same people. uh dis well not you know kind of thinly. disguised as the skeleton army and these. things would just happen all over the. place in England until uh someone would.

come in read the riot act literally and. break it up and say you know you you. have to disperse now sometimes that that. went okay and sometimes it didn't yeah. so the riot act I I didn't actually know. the um origin of it did you yeah oh you. did I KN English major so um I didn't. realize that so I'm going to explain it. to people who didn't realize it either. okay no you should so when you read. somebody the riot act you're basically. like telling them that you don't like. how they're acting you give them a. warning about if they act that way any.

further they're going to have their. iPhone taken away or something right. that there is actually a riot act from. 1714 the British Riot Act and what you. would do is if you were um you know. rioting if you were breaking stuff if. you were a rowdy crowd the Army would. come out and read the riot act that. basically said you got to stop what. you're doing and disperse or the arm is. going to make you disperse yeah and if. you didn't disperse after reading the. the riot act then the Army would be. forced to make you disperse and these.

the skeleton armies um throughout. England I think more than once uh had. the riot act read and had the Army. called out on them because they were. rioting so hard against the the. Salvation Army Riot hard is a great. album title for striper right yeah maybe. for the new. striper are they still together did you. find that out in your Deep dive I don't. remember where the last album was but. I'm prettyy sure it was in the 2000s so.

I they might be I'm not sure I don't. remember sorry I could I could see them. still playing shows with like uh less. teased hair but still sort of long and. maybe like a a half shaven beard kind of. thing yeah do you remember when we saw D. Snider oh yeah that's right I can. imagine that they probably look a lot. like d Snider these days compared to how. D Snider used to look yeah we were on a. talk show this is back when people used. to call us for stuff like that yeah.

weirdly early on we got way more press. and like invites to be on TV than we do. now I'm fine with that I like it now oh. no I I totally am I don't want to go I. like being put out to pasture yeah I do. too but yeah D Snider was also a guest. on the show and we and we met him like. not in the green room but like backstage. or something I would say in passing yeah. he was one way we're like hey D Snider. just kind of gave us like a a heads up. if I remember correctly I think and we. were on First and I think our joke at. the time was that we opened up for. Twisted.

Sister yeah yeah uh this last part that. we're going to talk about I don't fully. fully understand to be honest uh it has. to do with um the court system and. whether or not uh and peaceful assembly. and whether or not uh you can say hey. it's a peaceful assembly if you know. you're going there and you're going to. egg on people that will react act in. violence uh is that still a peaceful. assembly yeah it ties into what I was.

saying earlier that people used to blame. the Salvation Army including the courts. for inciting riots just from doing their. thing so while they were loud and they. were singing off key and they were um in. your face about how you were going to. hell they they were still under English. law assembling peaceably they weren't. breaking stuff they weren't breaking. they weren't breaking any laws they. weren't um hurting anybody like. physically or anything like that so.

technically it was a Peaceable assembly. but because almost invariably in some of. these towns when they showed up and did. their thing a riot would break out the. Salvation Army was held responsible in. the courts for triggering riots and. they're like you can't assemble anymore. because you incite riots your very. presence and finally some appell Court. in the United Kingdom was like that that. don't quite track. right they said something like um what. has happened here is that an unlawful.

organization has assumed to itself the. right to prevent the appellants and. others from lawfully assembling together. okay basically saying that um a man may. be convicted for doing a lawful act if. he knows that his doing it may cause. another to do an unlawful Act and the. extent of that is that you're not. responsible for the act of another. person if they're it's like if you. trigger somebody and they punch you in. the face they're in trouble for punching. you in the face you're not trouble for. triggering them right as much as you. despise what the the person might be.

saying they might be saying it right in. your face you can't hit them that's. breaking the law yeah telling somebody. that they're going to hell right in. their face it's not breaking the law and. so that actually established precedent. in the um English-speaking World in I. think 186. 1882 uh BTY versus Gil Banks it. established that the Salvation Army had. the right to peaceably assemble even if. it triggered riots and that really kind. of led to the idea that you can.

peaceably assemble even if the people. don't want to hear what you have to say. uh and will Riot it's it's on the rioter. not on you the person provoking them. yeah and I think the question since then. has been the sort of gray area of what. constitutes a peaceful. assembly yeah which is I mean yeah if. you're like a young Anarchist are you. going to sue the government for breaking. up your Peaceable assembly. not so you're really kind of at the at. the mercy of whatever mayor police chief.

yeah who runs the town that you're. you're assembling in but there's a law. in or there's a case that set precedent. in 1977 National Socialist Party of. America versus Village of skoki there. was a bunch of Chicago Nazis that wanted. to march in skoki where that which had a. huge population of Jewish Holocaust. survivors right and ski said no you. can't do that here and the Nazis sued. him and one they didn't actually ever. March but they won that case and it. established that that no matter how.

reprehensible your views you have a. right to say them right uh in America. it's part of your first amendment rights. and. that that is what the Blues Brothers are. referencing when they said they hate. Illinois Nazis and they drive through. that Bandstand and make Henry Gibson and. his Nazi friends jump into the river. that's what they're talking about is. that yeah that case that's pretty cool I. thought it was pretty cool too you got. anything else I got nothing else this.

was this was good I thought it was good. too who was it Corey uh that was from. Corey great suggestion Corey great. suggestion Corey and yes this was a good. one Chuck uh since Chuck said this was a. good one and I agreed I think it's time. for listener. mail uh I'm going to call this nice. little additional nugget of info from. John uh hey guys I was listening to the. episode on the Franklin Expedition uh. longtime listener first-time writer by. the way in the episode you uh.

collaborated to make up the pun name for. a bad sailor uh Leadfoot mcant. swim I didn't remember that until he. wrote it it was pretty funny yeah uh and. it brought up a nugget of a fact I. learned a few months ago I'm not sure if. you were making this joke because of. this that you knew a lot of sailors back. in that time couldn't swim but you were. right uh many sailors back in the day. couldn't swim for a number of reasons uh. they rang from a lack of resources such. as warm water uh and time in which to. learn uh to the desire of not to prolong. suffering which might happen if you were.

to find yourself overboard like just go. go down I guess it's pretty hardcore. pretty hardcore uh sadly stopping a ship. or going back to save a sailor uh did. not or could not have happened very. often so drowning might be the fastest. and easiest way to go uh picked up this. nugget from Peter Stark's book aoria uh. that covered the origins of atoria. Oregon being set up as a private Trading. Colony by John Jacob Aster in an attempt. to monopolize the Pacific fur trade uh.

if you're ever running low on topics. this would be a great episode oh uh but. I don't expect you're running low so I. plan on hearing about it in about 20. years yeah you never know you never know. who was uh that's from John he says. thanks for the knowledge yeah you never. know John thank you for the knowledge we. appreciate your big time that's a good. one non-swimming Sailors yeah I did not. see Oregon fur trading coming into that. story but here we are yep well if you. want to be like John and get in touch. with us and make a suggestion for an.

episode we love that kind of thing you. can wrap it up spank it on the bottom. and send it off to stuff podcast at. iheartradio.com. [Music]. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts ihart. radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite. [Music]. shows.