What are Blue Zones? | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm. Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here, too. And this is Stuff You Should Know, our episode on blue zones, which is. not well, we'll we'll explain it. It's. It's not immediately apparent what we're. talking about. You have to kind of know. the ins and outs. And I think that's.

kind of what we're going to do here is. explain the ins and outs of blue zones. I don't know why I said all that. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I'll just go ahead. and tell people right off the bat that a. blue zone is supposedly an area on. planet Earth where people uh they have. an um extraordinary amount or a higher. than average amount rather of people. that live to be 100 years old. >> Well, there you go. Now you know the ins. and outs of blue zones everybody. But. the story behind Blue Zones is what's. super interesting, I think. Uh it. started um well, we're going to jump.

back to the 70s at one point, but it. started out basically in 2004 when there. was a paper that came out. They said, "Hey, there's a large number of. centinarians uh people that live to be a. hundred at least um in a small area in. the mountains of Sardinia, Italy. And. the author of the papers um shaded it. blue on a map, called it a blue zone. And then in 2005, it really picked up. steam because there was a National uh. geographic reporter named Dan uh Dan.

Butner who wrote an article called the. secrets of long life in which he talked. about Sardinia and his own finding of. Okinawa, Japan and Lomol Linda, California is two more blue zones and. was like hey what's going on here? We. got to figure this out because people. there are living longer. >> Yeah. And the whole premise was hey. don't you want to live longer? Let's. find out what these people's secrets are. because clearly if there's a bunch of. them clustered together that means. they're all doing something similarly. So let's get to the bottom of this.

>> Yeah. >> And the way that he put it, what if I. said you could add up to 10 years of. your life. A long healthy life is no. accident. It begins with good genes, but. it also depends on good habits. >> Yeah. I mean I think everyone agrees. with that generally. >> Sure. But one of the reasons why it does. seem like there's a set of habits that. you can engage in from the Mediterranean. lifestyle or the Mediterranean diet to.

um getting out there and walking every. day. A large part of that is based on. how popular the concept of blue zones. became. And you can thank Dan Bututner, I believe his last name is Bututner, like he just blew the whole thing up and. and is all I don't want to say. single-handedly because there are. definitely people working behind the. scenes, but he's the one who made it who. introduced it to popular culture. >> Yeah, for sure. Um, and sort of off the. jump here, I want to talk one second. about a side article I read in New York.

Times recently because one of the things. that you're going to hear him talk about. or us talk about him talking about. >> is um, one of the things you can do to. live longer supposedly is tight social. networks. >> Uh, I just read a New York Times article. last week about superagers. >> Mhm. >> And it's not necessarily people that. live to be a hundred. That's what Blue. Zones is talking about, but it's just. people that live into their 80s and 90s. without getting dementia. >> Uhhuh. >> And it was a pretty robust study. They. had a large cohort over like 25 years. and they said some of them drink booze. every day, some of them uh they have.

been smokers, some of them eat a lot of. red meat. They said the one single thing. that they found in common with all of. them was social relationships, active. social relationships with people outside. of your house and going out and seeing. people. They said they tend to be. extroverts, so people that go out and. socialize with other people was the the. one commonality between all of them. That sucks. >> Oh no. >> I'm in big trouble, man. >> We got to get you out, buddy. >> I guess so. I'm going to have to update.

my wardrobe. >> You're like, I'm eating fish and olive. oil. I'm walking every day. >> Doing everything else. >> I just don't want to talk to anyone but. you, me and Momo. >> I put my hand up by my my face when I. walk past somebody when I'm out walking. every day. I thought it was really. interesting because, you know, most of. us in our Gen X category are dealing. with aging parents and I feel like. everyone I know is going through it in. some capacity. >> So, I'm just reading a lot about that. stuff lately. >> Oh, that's nice of you. >> Yeah. >> Prepping yourself.

>> Prepping myself so I don't do this to. Ruby. >> Nice. >> You know, >> nice. So, yeah, to tight social. networks, that is a big one uh as far as. the blue zones are concerned. And I. guess that's the only one that really. matters. But they have other stuff too. like you need to have a sense of. purpose. And anecdotally, I know that. makes sense because um a lot of people. >> I don't know if a lot's the right term, but there are definitely people who die. very shortly after retiring. >> Yeah.

>> And in the United States, your job in a. lot of cases is your identity and yeah, >> your purpose in life. People are like. family. Forget that, >> right? Accounting is my purpose in life. Yeah. >> And then once they retire, they don't. have any numbers to crunch and they keel. over dead. Um so that I mean anecdotally. that definitely makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh but this Nat Geo. article that Bututner wrote went viral. Um Bututner was basically like hey this.

is it for me. He did a TED talk. >> uh and and has developed quite a a. robust uh cottage industry around blue. zones. Uh he's written a lot of books. He's written Blue Zone cookbooks. Uh. there's been a Blu Zone uh Netflix. series. There are Blue Zone branded like. he copyrighted the term Blue Zone, >> right? >> And or trademarked it rather. And uh. there are skincare products and iced. teas and there's hot sauces and you can. do a Blue Zone retreat or pay monthly. for a Blue Zone app. >> Mhm.

>> Uh that's a there's a lot of stuff that. he's selling. >> Yeah, for sure. Um he he basically blew. it up into a lifestyle brand. >> Yeah. which is one reason some people. have come along and criticized it and. said, "Wait a minute. Uh, is this like. real science and real research or is. this just creating a brand and making. money?" I mean, not with maybe nefarious. intent or anything, but like let's look. at the science. And and a big person. that you're going to hear come up a lot. in this is a guy named Saul Justin.

Newman. And in 2019, he um he put out a. a statement basically that said, "Hey, um I think this is all just bad data.". >> Yeah. He wrote a paper on it essentially. that. >> Yeah. Like bad recordkeeping on ages. >> Yeah. And this is not new. Uh the idea. of super aers or centinarians, especially ones clustered together, has. been long controversial. Any anytime. somebody's come along and been like, "Hey, we found a bunch of people are.

living to their hundreds. let's look at. what they're doing so the rest of us can. do that too. >> But uh back in 1973 there was a guy. named Alexander Leaf. He was a physician. and he got kind of caught up in this. whole thing um just trying to figure it. out and he wrote an article for National. Geographic just like Dan Butner did in. 2004. but this is in 1973. Um and he went to. different parts of the world and where. there were anecdotally I guess a bunch.

of centinarians living and he. investigated and he found yes there are. some groups of people around the world. who um have some sort of secret to aging. late in life because there's a bunch of. hundred plus year olds who live in these. usually isolated areas. >> Yeah. But he himself, and credit to uh. to Alexander Leaf, he was like, "You. know what? This all like even this was. after the article was published, >> he didn't just like sit back and collect. his million-doll check and.

>> say, I guess that's that.". >> Mhm. >> He was like, "Wait a minute. This like. some of this stuff is nagging at me uh. and doesn't seem to make much sense.". So, he kind of went back on his own. research even and started looking. through these uh records basically. And. he in one case he saw a death. certificate of a man who was uh. allegedly 168 years old and he was like. that's pushing it I feel like. >> for sure. >> And in another area he met a villager. who claimed to be 122. He went back a. year later and the guy said he was 134.

>> So he was like all right. Five years. later in 1978, he partnered with a. couple of other scientists to sort of. get down to the bottom of it all and dug. through records in these places and. found a lot of like discrepancies where. people were off by decades on their. actual age. And they reckon that like I. think they're doing this because it. brings them a lot of prestige. Instead. of being like 80 something years old, they say they're 105 and all of a sudden. they're like the village elder, you.

know? >> Right. Exactly. but a fraudulent village. elder. So that's right. Essentially what. happened was an outsider, a westerner. got tripped up into what is probably. some a custom um in the area. It's like. that people just kind of inflate their. ages and the like people like Alexander. Leaf are obsessed with finding out. exactly how that happens and not. stopping to be like I I don't know if. this is actually real. But yeah, hats. off to Alexander Leaf for going back on.

his own findings and admitting like, "No, this is probably not right.". Because they they concluded without a. doubt that the the Ecuadorians in this. village of Vilabomba were fraudulent. >> Yeah. >> And he's like, I'm sure that also. applies to the other places, too. So, everybody just forget the article I. wrote. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a again, hats off. because that's a to to put your own name. out there as like, hey, I I got it. wrong. like uh I don't know if I would. have done it.

>> You don't think so? We do that all the. time. >> Oh well, that's a good point. >> Yeah, we correct ourselves. >> Uh so we're going to introduce you to a. couple of more people that factor in. pretty heavily here. In 1999, there was. an Italian researcher named Giovan Pes. >> Pes never heard that last name? >> No. >> He presented a paper at a demography. conference and then there was a Why is. that funny? Because a demography. conference is like party central. Yeah, I can imagine somebody going, "What. segment of the population here is ready.

to party?". >> Yeah. Or. I wonder if they just stand around at. break and look out on the street and. they're like, "How many people you think. are over there on that sidewalk?". >> Is that right? >> What percentage of those people are. smoking Marorrow lights? So in that audience though where Giovani. Pes was presenting a paper um there was. a guy named another demographer. obviously named Michael P. and he had recalled this um fiasco in. the early '7s and he was like wait a. minute he's talking about um Sardinia.

Italy that you know originally uh the. the area where um bututner wrote the. article turns out butner wrote the. article about this research on Sardinia. that Giovani Pest had done. >> Yes. So, if it's very easy to just. assume that Dan Bututner came along and. either piggybacked on um Pes and. Pulain's research or kind of invited. himself into their little party, he was. actually already looking into this.

>> Yeah. like I think as far back as 99 he. had set up a project to investigate. how Okinowans who are widely reputed for. living into their hundreds um and we. should say healthy not like decrepit old. balls of yarn like these are like. healthy people who still move around and. do stuff on a daily basis. >> Yeah. how they were doing that. So long. before um Pez and Puan put their stuff. together uh or I guess about the same.

time but independently Bututner was. doing his own thing too. So he didn't. just come along and steal their their. idea or their research. >> Yeah, for sure. And as as you'll see, they worked together for quite a while. after this too. But um so Puland. remembered the thing from the 70s and he. was like, "All right, I'm going to go to. Sardinia myself and sort of dig into. this." So he did that started started. cross-checking birth records and. marriage records and uh anything he. could get from archives you know in the. town or from the church or whatever and. they are the ones they they put uh ex's.

when they clustered they shaded it blue. and they're the ones pulan and uh pess. in 2000 that coined the term blue zone. >> Oh. >> uh even though I guess butner. trademarked it so I don't know I'm not. sure what happened there. I couldn't. find anything about Pulan or Pez's. reaction to him trademarking that. >> I wonder if it was he did what? >> So yeah, it's like all the exes whenever. they confirmed somebody, they started to. cluster so much that it just became a. blue region. So that So now Dan Butner.

had a name for this idea, this concept. that he'd been working on for years and. he Yeah. he took it and ran with it and. turned it into that lifestyle brand. Pez. and Pain essentially were like, "Okay, that's fine. We're going to stay. academic here um and and try to keep. studying this." And Bututner would kind. of come in and out of their research. over the next couple decades. >> Yeah. And uh the key thing um as far as.

the original three places in Bututner's. article, like you mentioned, he had. already studied Okinawa. Mhm. >> He picked up on what Pulan and Pez were. doing with Sardinia, but Lomol Linda, California is in there and everyone was. like, "What the heck does Lomol Linda. got going on?". >> Mhm. >> And just last year, Butner told the New. York Times that um Loinda was apparently. included because the editor at Net Geo. said, "We got to get an American Blue. Zone in there.". >> Yeah. >> Like this needs to be I know it needs to. be like applicable to our readers here.

So, a lot of critics of course are going. to come out and say like that's that. just kind of that's not science. No, that you don't like editors don't. dictate scientific methods or results, right? So, yeah, that's a big criticism. Um but and I think also I like I haven't. seen anything that says Pain or Pez are. um irritated by or just like Bututner or. anything like that. >> But just looking at the whole thing. thing from the outside,

>> Bututner just keeps attracting just. >> you know contradiction or naysayer after. naysayer and Pulan and Pez are like dude. we're doing like real science over here. like stop giving our work a bad name. because you're out there selling low. mind because your editor told you to put. it into the original article, >> right? Or selling hot sauce. >> Yeah, selling hot sauce is another great. one. But so in in I guess his defense, Bututner said, well actually low Minda.

statistically speaking, people there. tend to live anywhere between I think. four to 10 years more Yeah. >> than the average California resident. Yeah. >> And there's actually a really good. reason for that. There's a huge cluster. of Seventh Day Adventists there. >> And you'll remember from our Kellogg. live episode um on the Kellogg brothers. The Seventh Day Adventists kind of. inspired them and their health food. movement. Um they don't tend to smoke or. drink or eat meat.

>> And so he was like, "That's great. We're. going to include them in there." So, it's not like he just threw a dart like. the Bay City Rollers and picked whatever. >> city that it it landed on. Like, there. was a reason why. >> And it turned out to be a pretty good. business move because five years ago in. 2020, Adventist Health, which is a um. essentially the hospital arm of the. Seventh Day Adventists, they bought the. Blue Zone trademarks and all of the. brand.

>> So, they now own it. The Adventists do. >> Very interesting. All right, I'm going. to ponder that. Let's take a break and. we'll come back and talk more about blue. zones. [Music].

So, uh, Chuck, like I said, Bututner and. Pess and Pulin all started working. together. in the early 2000s. And Bututner was. funded by National Geographic. He was a. fellow for them, I think, even before he. wrote the article for National. Geographic. Um, but they started funding. expeditions to look for more blue zones. And in the mid 2000s, 2000 the as I.

guess they identified two more. One in. Costa Rica on the Nikicoa Peninsula and. another one in Ekaria, Greece, which is. between Greece and Turkey. It's a island. between Greece and Turkey. It looks. absolutely amazingly beautiful. But they. added them to there be they because they. went and studied the centinarians and. said, "Yep, this qualifies as a blue. zone.". I was just laughing because I was. wondering that Nat Geo editor was like, "I kind of want to retire near Sedona.

Uh, see if you can find me some olds. there.". >> That's right. I heard there's lay lines. there. >> I'm trying to sell the wife. >> Right. >> Uh, more recently than that, uh, they've. added more blue zones besides that area. of Costa Rica and Akaria, Greece. >> Um, Singapore was added in 2023. Uh. that's in um the book Blue Zones, Secrets for Living Longer. >> Colon, nothing to add here. >> Uh Martinique in 2023. That was added as. well. Uh but this was not Butner.

apparently. Pul. um is the one that put that Caribbean. island uh which is a department of. France. He put that one on the list. because there were twice as many. centinarians per capita than mainland. France. Um, and so they're saying like. they're basically finding these things. that happen and saying like, "Hey, that's that's a blue zone. We're gonna. call it that because we made up that. name.". >> Yeah. But according to Puland's very. strict definition, there has to be a. higher than um than normal or usual.

percentage of centinarians, people who. are over age 100. Yeah. >> And that they typically are um healthy, active, they're still living life, right? That is the true definition of a. blue zone. I get the impression butner. is including with L Minda got a little. fast and loose with the definition and. that that's a probably a point of. contention. >> Well, they came up with um each of them. independently came up uh of their own. list basically of of things to do to.

live longer. Butner has his they're. called the power nine which is. trademarked. >> and Punan calls his the seven. principles. Uh, I didn't see if that was. trademarked. >> Yeah, I don't think so either. Uh, here. they are. One is move naturally. Uh, and. that is basically like you're not going. to the gym every day and quote unquote. working out. You're just you're moving. through the world. You might be hurting. goats in this village every day or. working uh in the garden all day long or. just walking back and forth to the.

village to do your daily trading. Um. they found that that if you just move. naturally through the world as you age. instead of just sitting on the couch, then you're going to live longer. >> Yeah. If you have the same daily routine. as Balky Bartakamus, you are probably. going to live into your hundreds. >> Good one. Uh also, uh eating meat in in. very small proportions or not at all. seems to be correlated with living a. long life among Blues owners. Um, yeah.

>> Usually essentially plant-based diets, some fish depending on where you live. >> Yeah. >> And then Okinowans are very famous for. something called harahachi buu, which is. um an 80 the 80% rule where you eat. until you feel about 80% full and then. you stop, which is extremely clever. because you you get fuller and fuller. after you start to feel full. So that. that rounds up to the full 100% of. fullness almost every time. Yumi taught. me that and it really works. It's also.

really difficult to stop eating when. you're 80% full when you're eating. processed western food. >> It's nearly impossible. But if you can. pull it off, you're like, "Wow, this. this actually works." You. >> should probably slow down, too. I bet. that helps. >> That's what they say. >> because all of a sudden, if you're like. me, you're like, "Oh god, I'm at 105%.". >> Right. I was trying to stop. But also if. you slow down and really like you can. sense the food that you're eating more, you can enjoy it more mindfully too. So.

I mean that's what they say. >> for sure. >> Uh sense of purpose. We talked about uh. it's called different things in. different parts of the world. Costa. Ricans call it pure vita. >> Uh it's basically like you know do. things that give you joy and like that. you want to get out of bed and and do. >> like accounting, >> right? Sure. If that's your thing. >> Um but yeah, I mean it could be like. like a hobby. It can be anything. Like. just having a reason that you're alive. is is that's your purpose. I think. that's you got to have that, man. And I.

just hate to think that anybody doesn't. feel like they have a purpose in life. Especially like I get it. You go through. like chunks of life like say your early. 20s where you're like, "Oh my god, everybody else is more successful than. me and my life is off the rails already. and I'm only 20 years old." Everybody. goes through that. So, I can I can see. like going through phases where you are. lacking purpose or maybe direction is. another way to put it, but like later in. life to just feel like you've never had. a purpose in life. I I can't bear to. think that that people feel like that.

that anybody out there does. >> Yeah, for sure. Um stress reduction is. another uh reducing stress. I don't know. why that's funny, but um you know, taking trips with your family, hanging. out with your friends. This is kind of. what I was talking about earlier with. the social interaction, >> right? >> Um, and also get a lot of sleep. >> Yeah, that's very important, too. There. was there's one that Bututner lists that. um that Pain doesn't. It's a religious. faith. >> Apparently, they interviewed 263.

centinarians together, and all except. five of them belong to some sort of. church or religion or faith-based. community. >> Yeah. Um, surprisingly, most of them. were flying spaghetti monster followers. So, you might want to look into that for. longevity, too. >> Uh, family first is another tenant. Um, you know, live close to your family. Um, care for your old. >> Uh, get together with your family.

That's one. So, you know, we're both. kind of screwed. Sure. Uh, what else? Strong social circles. That's sort of. ties into uh the other things we were. talking about. Uh but yeah, um you got to have those. strong social ties. >> What about taking shots? >> Like taking a shot at your friend or. taking a shot of whiskey? >> Taking a shot of booze, doing shots. >> Well, I mean, you know, they they they. used to say that a couple of drinks a. day, a couple of glasses of wine, like. in Sardinia, Italy, is, you know, the.

kind of thing they do. They have wine. with with food, uh even during the. daytime. Um they've now kind of gone. back and said no amount of the World. Health Organization at least saying no. amount of alcohol is good for your. health. >> Mhm. >> So uh that was that was a disappointing. finding. >> Yeah, that was another one that p that. pulain um leaves off of his seven. principles. >> He's French. >> Yeah, that's really saying something. because they love the wine. >> I know. >> They lack a wine. >> Yeah.

So you mentioned Saul Justin Newman um. who is the the leading critic I guess of. all of this. He says like yeah bututner. has turned this into a lifestyle brand. and that smacks of all sorts of you know. questionable stuff as far as science. goes. He goes even further than that. He. says the entire thing is based on a. faulty premise and that there are no. blue zones. There are no clusters of. centinarians who live in areas and in.

and live a um a longer life because of. these lifestyle decisions and choices. and things that they do. That just. doesn't exist. That essentially the. people who study this have been misled. by their own data and that that's the. that's what is producing what seems like. these blue zones. >> Yeah. And just in case you're wondering, he's a um senior research fellow at the. Center for Longitudinal Studies at the. University of College of London.

>> And uh he kind of starts out by saying. like, hey, we noticed one thing. Um. stateisssued birth certificates are. really important. And 82% of the super. centinarians, so those are people over. 100, were born before they started doing. this widely. basically. So, um, if we. really had the real birth certificates. of these people, um, that number of. people living beyond 100 drops way way.

down. Like essentially everyone's lying. about their age. >> Yeah. Or mis mistaken about their age. But yeah, a lot of people apparently lie. about their age. Um, also Chuck, one of. the other things that he pointed out is. that if you study areas, especially in. developed countries like Italy, England, and France, I think he specifically. looked at. >> in areas with the biggest clusters of. super centinarians, right? So, >> yeah, >> I guess that's 101 on. >> Yeah.

>> Um, so those areas also tend to be more. povertystricken. Uh, the people have. people living there make lower incomes. They have lower literacy rates, higher. crime rates, >> very tellingly fewer 90 year olds, which. is a big statistical anomaly because. that suggests that people are just. jumping into their hundreds. Who wants. to be like, I'm 92 when you could be. like, I'm 102, right? >> Yeah. >> And that they also have very. paradoxically lower than average life.

expecties. So if you put all that. together like you're like how is anybody. living into their hundreds in these. areas let alone whole clusters of people. living into their hundreds don't make. sense. I think Saul Saul Newman's quote. was uh feels hanky. >> right I think so uh what he concluded. was that um in pl in these places that. might have high poverty you're more. likely to find what what's called. pension fraud. So, it's family members. saying, "No, you know, Grandpa Grandpa.

uh Chuck is still alive in the back. room. Keep keep those pension checks. rolling in.". >> Uh, and that's the thing. In in 2010, uh, there were more than 230,000. Japanese centinarians who were. discovered to be either made up, dead, or missing. >> Yeah. I think Greece also started. investigating their centinarians and. ended up finding 200,000 people who no. longer were alive. So, um, that's. definitely part of it. Another.

statistical anomaly that he points out. that is very suggestive of this whole. thing being wrong is that if you look at. the birthdays for super cent. centinarians, their birthdays aren't. statistically random. They seem to be. clustered around the first of the month. There's a much higher cho I think a 150%. higher chance that the a centinarian's. birthday is on the first of the month. than on the last of the month which. makes zero sense statistically speaking. >> It's like uh when I fill out any like.

tell us your age thing, >> I just go January 1st. >> Exactly. So do I. We have the same. birthday, same fake birthday. >> That's right. Uh here's another one is. that and this is sort of part of the. basis of his whole thing is just that. like these records are often wrong. Um. they're very very common in the United. States. Uh and this was in 1960. Uh 66%. of non-white females had multiple. official ages uh in the year 1960. And.

their ages varied depending on what uh. like what record you were looking at, whether it was like the DMV or a. marriage certificate or birth. certificate. M and 30% of these. variations were off by more than a. decade. >> Yeah. And he also drilled down a little. more and he said some of these like. lifestyle claims and diet claims, they're not supported by data. In fact, the Okanowan. um cohort. were are are they were basically said to. have this amazing diet where that's.

probably a big part of what was helping. them live longer. He said, 'N no, if you. ask the government of Japan, people in. Okinawa eat the least amount of. vegetables of Japanese people as a. whole, and they have the highest body. mass index. So, explain that, Poolain. >> Uh, all right, maybe we should take our. second break and see if Pain responds to. your call out. >> Okay. >> Yeah, he might give us a ring. And we'll. be back right after this to finish up on. Blue Zones.

Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music]. All right, so we're back. Uh, when we. last left you, um, Newman had sort of,

uh, launched a I don't know about an. attack, but put out a paper that. countered a lot of these claims about. blue zones being a thing. It's a big. splash in the media. And so Blues owners. got together and they said, "All right, we're gonna write a letter uh back to. you defending our work." Like we will. not this will not stand. >> Yeah. And we should say um uh Newman. doesn't seem to think that Pain is some. hack or liar. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Pain is a wellrespected demographer. Um.

instead, I think what Newman is saying. is there are errors in the records that. Pain is using, >> right? And once it's in there, when. another record gets made from the. original record, it gets it just spreads. like a virus essentially. And so he's. basically saying Pain is is using these. this faulty these faulty records without. realizing it. And so the an error. introduced into your data would be. totally undetectable in that sense. So.

he's not attacking Pain specifically. He's saying like this the data itself is. is wrong from the get-go. >> Yeah. which kind of even negates some of. the rebuttal because some of the points. of the rebuttal were like, "Hey, we know. that there are errors and fraud, but we. go through a pretty rigorous. verification process and we think it's. statistically sound." Um, like in. Sardinia, you know, Italy, that was one. of the first blue zones named. They. said, you know, we have civil databases. dating back to 1866. We have church.

archives. We've got these handwritten. records and we have done full. genealogies of entire villages and. cross-check this stuff. So again, you. know, Pulen is is trying to do the right. thing, but Newman would probably go back. and say, "Yeah, but those original. records from 1866 weren't right.". >> Yeah. But then Puain would counter, "Yes, I'm not just using one record. I. crossverify." So he he interviews the. centinarians first and their families. that that's where he gets the original.

age and then he goes back and tries to. find any support that he can for that. and he actually came up with a rating. system of how like how quality a. verification is. >> Yeah. >> I think there's a starring system. There's also like a A+++ or something. system where like the the highest. quality verification is the centinarian. saying their age and you've got all. these other documents that say the exact.

same thing. Um and that they're you know. a church record is not necessarily going. to be based on right you know a birth. certificate or a army registration or. something like that. So that's pretty. independent. And then he takes it even. further and says you want to do the same. thing for the family members, for their. parents, for their siblings, and make. sure that along the way somebody with a. similar name didn't get mixed up and. that that's how their age got older and. older and older there. He's he's doing. like legit.

>> methodology. So it is kind of tough to. just kind of dismiss. >> um that particular thing the techniques. he has for verifying ages. >> Yeah, for sure. Uh, another rebuttal was. that, "Hey, Newman, um, a lot of the. fraud and errors that you're citing. weren't even in blue zones. You're just. saying that that happened." Um, uh, you. know, I if it's happening elsewhere, it's probably happening in blue zones as. well would be my counter to that. But, you know, that was what they came back. with. >> Well, also in his paper, he does.

investigate actual blue zones like the. NOA Peninsula in Costa Rica. Apparently, Costa Rica found out in 2008 that 42% of. its population aged 99 or older. misstated their age in the 2000 census. and that when they went back and did the. math to actually adjust it to reality, the blue zone in Nicoa shrunk by 90%. So, he did demonstrate that yes, these. some of these blue zones are just.

absolutely wrong. >> Yeah. Um he it got a little personal it. feels like at the end cuz they said and. also you're not a demographer and your. paper wasn't peer- reviewviewed it. wasn't published in a peer-reviewed. journal that is. >> and everyone says your breath stinks. >> right and you you sir are a nitwit right. although he he was working at at the. center for longitudal longitudinal. studies by definition he was a. professional studier of studies and.

going back and recreating studies to to. find out how valid they were. So, he. might not have been a demographer, but. he was definitely qualified to evaluate. the quality of a study. For sure. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um Dave helped us with. this and he found a New York Times. article from 2024 and this kind of I. think um for me kind of makes a lot of. sense. It was from uh it was a quote. from Dr. Near Barzeli is I guess how you. pronounce it. Sure. He's the director of. the Institute for Aging Research at the. Albert Einstein College of Medicine. And.

he was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eat all. these good foods, stay physical, supportive friends and family, like like. I think we can all agree that you'll. live longer." But his quote is, "Are the. concepts of blue zones consistent with. what we know about aging?" Absolutely. Uh but the blue zones themselves and the. theories behind them have not. necessarily been validated. scientifically. It's not a study. It's. an observation. It's an observation. which is consistent with what we think. we know about aging. And that's kind of. where I landed was like.

just say say that say hey we've noticed. this really interesting thing and these. are the commonalities for people that. live longer in these areas rather than. trying to say like this is a blue zone. and this is the data and the science. behind it, you know. >> Yeah, there have been plenty of studies. on blue zones and blue zone inhabitants. There's a um this kind of metaanalysis. that was published in 2022, the American. Journal of Lifestyle Medicine by. Magdalini at all. I still don't know.

what at all means, but you know what it. generally means by context, right? >> And others, I think. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Sure. Um but it examined essentially. each of those lifestyle, you know, power. nine or seven principles and the studies. that support those. And there have been. like really granular studies. They they. um referenced some that studied elderly. icarians. Remember Aaria Greece was one. of the blue zones. >> Mhm.

>> Studied their grip strength. Um studied. their flow mediated dilation which is a. marker of the health of your endothelial. cells which make up the lining of your. blood vessels. Like people have really. studied this and a lot of those studies. have come back and been like yes these. people have better than average grip. strength. their um flow mediated. dilation is off the charts. You've never. seen anything like it. Everybody says. it's just amazing. Um so there has there. have been studies that support it. It's.

just like I think people people brush it. off because it is very easy to brush. off. I kind of landed where you did. where if you take it as a whole. >> Yeah. It does seem to be great, you. know, great indicators, great ideas of. how to live, >> but the science is being conducted. It's. just not there where somebody's like, "Yes, definitively these are right and. these aren't right, too.". >> Yeah, for sure. Um, as far as Butner and. Pulan, they both agree uh that they they.

think that blue zones are disappearing. like quickly. >> and like there won't be any at a certain. point. Um, which is I thought people. were living longer. So, I was kind of. curious about that. But they're finding. fewer centinarians in Okinawa uh and. other places and they they say it's the. widespread adoption of Western diet. Um. Newman came back. I feel like every time. they like he's got a a Google alert set. for these guys. >> Yeah. >> Uh Newman came back and said, and I tend. to agree with him here. He's like, that. doesn't make any sense to me. He said,

like, are all these 80-year-olds. suddenly giving up a lifetime of healthy. eating habits and going to McDonald's? Just doesn't make sense. Um, so he goes. back again to the recordkeeping and. saying it was it was never that to begin. with, >> right? He he Yeah, it doesn't it just. doesn't Yeah, it doesn't track. So if. they do exist though, one thing that. Bututner and Pulin um definitely agree. on is uh and actually Newman too is that. they're they're not going to find. anymore and the ones that do exist are.

going to shrink out to basically. nothing. It's just different. explanations of why that is. But you can. kiss blue zones goodbye basically. >> Yeah. Well, you found some interesting. stuff on genetics, too, because that's. kind of the one thing we haven't talked. about is. diet, exercise, being around your. family, and all that stuff is great, but. genetics like probably have to play a. part, right? >> Well, yeah, they found um you would. think so for sure. And they have found. some stuff that says like yes um this. these genes definitely do appear in.

certain populations more than others. Like the Sardinians have a a gene that. um makes them bitter super tasters I. think and it's uh related to a lower fat. intake like you avoid fats. So that's. >> I think it's associated with like living. longer that specific gene. >> right. So that makes a lot of sense. Okay. That that would definitely help. you live longer. But then there's other. contradictory evidence that that is kind. of confounding. >> Yeah. I think um people 110 years or.

older. Wow. In Okinawa, they had a. slightly increased likelihood of. possessing a gene variant that makes. them more like likely to develop. Alzheimer's. Uh compared to I think it. was in in Greece uh that that part of. Greece that had the gene that supposedly. protected against Alzheimer's. And they. found the opposite to be true in. Okinawa, >> right? And yet they're both blue zone. super cent centinarian. >> Yeah. >> Areas. Yeah. So yeah, but surely it does.

have to play some sort of role. And I. think in that original paper, Pez and. Puan. >> uh speculated that inbreeding in that. area of Sardinia was responsible for. creating these essentially protective. traits. >> H. there you have it. Either way, the. Sardinians were like, "Please, what are. you doing?". >> Yeah, it's out of our business. Let me. drink my lunch wine in peace. >> Well, supposedly there are plenty of. areas in the world who contact Bututner.

and Puland and are like, "Hey, um, make. sure you you put us down as a blue zone. because it attracts a lot of like. healthy lifestyle tourists.". >> Yeah, for sure. And again, I mean, I. don't know why this bugs me a little bit. more than usual. Uh, I I I think it's. great that they put out like tips for. living longer, >> but there's something about like when. it's marketed and branded that kind of I. don't know. >> I I'm I get you for sure. You know what.

I mean? >> Yeah, I'm with you, man. >> Although, if you live the Blue Zone. lifestyle and you're loving life, hats. off to you. >> Yeah. Trademark. >> trademark Adventist Health. Uh, since. Shook laughed a second ago, that's a. traditional trigger for um listener. mail. >> That's right. Uh, this is about circular. economy and us complaining about. appliances not lasting long. >> Mhm. >> Hey guys, I have something to say about. this. Uh, one thing that people should.

do is maintenance on the products that. they buy. >> Yeah, it's true. >> The fact that Chuck hates washers and. dryers is because a lot of times. products break down due to a lack of. maintaining and caring for these. products. I'm a home improvement. contractor and I can't tell you how many. times I've moved appliances to see the. total lack of care that these products. go through. Uh it's not just washers and. dryers, but most things in your home. that you buy, people fail to one, read. the instructions, and two, read how to. care for the products. >> Yeah, I just throw that stuff away. >> That's a good point, though. >> Uh a lot of things these days require.

you to clean, maintain them so they do. last longer. Take for example the. clothes washer. It has three different. uh our clothes washer has three. different small filters that need to be. cleaned out once a month. What? Oh jeez. And if you don't, eventually it'll break. down the washer. My point being, if you. take just a little time and save and. read those manuals, you'll help them. last longer and you won't have to throw. away stuff that breaks and wears down. Uh, love the episode and I do 100% agree. that products are made to be thrown out. and replaced. I just wanted to add that. is up to us as consumers to do our best. to keep the products that we buy running.

the best that we can. That's my two. bits. Uh, that is from Justin. And. Justin, you are so right. And I uh. shamefully never ever maintain much of. anything like that. >> That's funny that uh Justin wrote that. in because just yesterday I was um. cleaning the evaporator condenser coils. I can't remember some coils in my. fridge. >> Okay. >> And um. >> look at you. >> Well, my fridge is not working very. well. So, I was really hoping that this. was the problem. Bob Va said it was.

probably going to be the problem. Oh, Bob. >> But in that same article that on Bob. Va's website, he says that you should do. that you should clean and dust your um. refrigerator's coils every 3 months. >> Those are on the back of the fridge, right? >> Yeah. Or they're in the front bottom. But and they make brushes. I got brushes. for it and everything that make the. whole thing easy. But I'm like I have. this is the first time I've ever done. anything like this. And I've had plenty.

of fridges. So, it makes me wonder how. much longer other fridges could have. lasted. You know, >> I'm sure that's true, but oh boy, I. don't want to see what's under and. behind my fridge at this point. >> It's scary. >> Well, I'm going to go look for the. filters in my washing machine that I. never knew existed cuz I kind I get. jazzed by that kind of thing, but at the. same time, I'm like, >> me, too. >> After a while, you're like, I'm I'm. tired of doing this. >> I changed my air filters and things for. my HVAC. Yumi and I looked at a house. once and these two dudes owned it and um.

I was like asking where the the air. handler was and and um the guy didn't. know and I was like you know where you. put the air filter. He's like I don't. think our system uses air filters and I. was like dude and we drove past the. house the next day and there was a HVAC. truck in the driveway so I guess I. turned them on to the existence of their. air filters. >> That's great. Yeah, I actually do mine. myself because it's not too hard. But. yeah. Yeah, for sure. That's as far as I.

go. And I should go further for sure. >> Are you cleaning out your drain lines? That's another big one. >> Uh drain line for what? >> For your HVAC. >> The little the little white PVC line. that's like running from your air. handler where you put the air filter. >> Huh. >> There is a there. So, this is this. drains the condensation from your air. handler. And you should use about an 1/8. of a cup of just regular old simple. green. >> Mix in with a gallon of water. Get. yourself a funnel.

>> Pour it in there. Let it come out the. bottom. You do that once a month during. the hot months and it will keep your um. your drain line from getting clogged up. with gunk. >> Yeah, I'm I'm shamefully lazy about. anything like that. I'm so bad at. maintenance. >> I'll come over and show you. It'll be. fine. We'll make an afternoon of. maintaining stuff around your house. You. buy the subs, though. >> Yeah, I was about to say I'll bring the. subs, you bring the simple green, and. we'll party. >> All right, man. That sounds like a great. idea. Well, thanks for this, Justin. You. really just kicked off a new tradition.

for me and Chuck. Monthly, I would say. Uh, and if you want to be like Justin. and kick off a new monthly tradition for. me and Chuck, you can send us an email, too. Send it off to stuffpodcast@. iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows. [Music].