VH-1: MTV for Your Parents | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production of iHeart Radio. [Music]. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh. and there's Chuck and this is Stuff You. Should Know. Uh the adult contemporary edition. Video Hits One. Yeah, did you remember that's what the. VH stood for? Yeah, and I think that's. I think they ran that little thing I. just did.

I think that was their their thing. Initially? I don't know. I seem to I don't know if. I just made that up or not, but I feel. like that's something that's stuck in my. brain from the old days. Well, yeah, from what this research showed, that's. exactly the kind of thing they would. have run for like the first 10 years. Yeah, probably. And this is on VH1 of. course and it's going to be a great warm. up for the long-awaited Judas Priest. show tonight that I'm going to. Oh, is. that tonight? Awesome, man. I hope you. have a bitchin' time.

>> Yeah, it should be some fun people. watching and some good music. Are you. going to smoke PCP in the parking lot. like that documentary? Oh, you know it, baby. I got my. I ordered some PCP online. Mhm. And it. came in a box labeled PCP. Okay. And I opened it up and it said, "Take. two PCPs for best results." There you. go. So, I think I'm good. That sounds legit. to me. Yeah, I think I'm all set. Well, have a. great time. It's cool. Did you get in touch with um.

Nita Strauss? No. No, she may not be Stuff You Should Know. person anymore. Well, try waving to her from the. audience and see what happens. >> me. Uh maybe when you're on PCP, you'll just. crawl onto stage. Yeah, maybe. You never. know. I'm going to take the recommended. two, so who knows what's going to. happen. So, we're talking about VH1, which is. basically the opposite of PCP. Um. as everyone knows who's ever seen VH1, especially if you were around when it.

debuted back in 1985. Um. it it's just like the older. mellower. more. um well, again, adult contemporary. version of MTV. And it bears a striking resemblance. because it was um. launched by the same company that. launched MTV, that whole Warner Brothers. Amex weirdness. Yeah. Um and the one of. the big reasons they launched VH1 is. because. they really wanted to put one of their.

competitors, Ted Turner's cable music. channel, in the ground permanently. Yeah, and I guess this was before, you. know, cuz they eventually bought them. out if you remember from the MTV. episode. I do remember. I was talking to. dear listener, but that's okay. >> Oh, oh, I see. When I address you, I address you as. dear leader. Thanks. I appreciate that. Uh yeah, so this is before they bought. them out clearly because they were. essentially saying, "Hey, cable.

companies, if you want another um music. video station, don't go buy Turner's. thing. Just take VH1 for free. If you're. getting MTV, we'll just throw it in.". Yeah, before Video Hits One, it was. Value Add Hits One. Well, yeah, and honestly, what what got. me about researching this was. um they follow similar paths as far as. music videos turned into original. programming. >> Mhm. Uh but I dare say that VH1 did a. better job and stayed more relevant in. the long run.

Uh yeah, for sure. I mean, you can make. a case it's still quite relevant. It's. definitely changed its mission. dramatically, but MTV changed its. mission as well and yeah, it's it's VH1. still. relevant. That's it. There's no there's. no better word to put it. Yeah, I think. they ended up having much bigger shows. when they started doing their original. shows than MTV had. For sure. And as. we'll see, every once in a while, MTV. likes to still poach them because even. though VH1 is more relevant, I get the. impression that MTV is still more.

powerful in that company. Yeah, I'm. curious what the dynamic there. Let's. find out. Anyone who works at MTV or. VH1, let us know. Uh but like you said, it started out. just a few years later and was. you know, they launched with Marvin Gaye. singing the national anthem and then. Diana Ross. and. the very. mellower well, I guess you blessed that. loving feeling was always mellow. >> Mhm. But I feel like Daryl Hall and John. Oates even made it even sort of cornier.

Oh, you want to hear corny? Sure. I was. listening to some beautiful music on. YouTube this morning as I was studying. Yeah. And I heard a instrumental Muzak. version of Gordon Lightfoot's Sundown. And I was like, "Chuck would love this. one." Yeah, I probably would have. Cuz. every time I hear that song, I hear you. doing your impression of it where you're. just like mumbling the words. Yeah, yeah. Boy,

that's when Canada turned against me. personally. Yeah. And they forgave me. We we we made up. So, yeah, it was. actually pretty solid lineup. The fourth. video that they showed was John Lennon's. Nobody Told Me. So, that's not not a bad. way to kick off a new video channel. Um. and I was looking through the rest of. the I think first 10 or 20 or whatever. and it was just hit after hit. Um and. they VJs that they had, again, this is. the older sibling or maybe even like. parent. Yeah, like people in their 30s.

watched VH1. Yeah. Really old people. Right. People that David Bowie clearly. said you couldn't trust any longer. Yeah, exactly. Um that was who the VJs. were. They were untrustworthy um former. radio vets like Don Imus. Yeah, Imus was there, Frankie Crocker, uh Bowser, Sha Na Na. Yeah, the best VJ. I think of all. Yeah, maybe so. >> There was also a guy named Scott Shannon. who we can thank um for creating the. Morning Zoo radio show format. Oh, was.

he the Was he the guy? He was the guy. Wow. Yeah, I think his headstone, if he's. still around, it will eventually say. sorry. Yeah, and it just has a. a fart machine that you can press. That's not a bad idea. That's really. not, actually. So, one of the other things that. differentiated VH1 from MTV is that. pretty much out of the gate, you can. tell from the first two videos, it was. much more um. uh willing to put black artists on uh.

its airwaves, right? Like we talked. about MTV being like almost flat-out. accused of racism by the head of CBS. Records. um within a couple of years of its its. launch. Um VH1 was not that. I don't. know if they learned the lesson or if. they were just more into um music made. by black artists than MTV. I'm not sure, but from the outset, they it was a place. where you could see more black artists. for sure. Yeah, and also a place for comedy. You. know, MTV we we lauded some of the.

sort of sketch shows and the Remote. Control Funny Game Show, but um Rosie. O'Donnell uh actually got her start as a. VJ on VH1 in 1985 and a few years later. uh the the pretty good stand-up show, Stand-Up Spotlight, was on. And this. was, you know, three or four years. before the Comedy Channel launched, which would eventually become Comedy. Central. So, there wasn't, you know, HBO. was doing some stuff, but there wasn't a. lot of stand-up on television until VH1. No, but apparently there already was uh.

the Half Hour Comedy Hour on MTV, which. I had totally forgotten about. But do. you remember that? >> Oh, yeah. That was a good one. >> we're Comedy Hour. And then I guess HBO. already still had some stuff, too, but. for the most part, there wasn't it. wasn't crowded at all. Rosie O'Donnell. was a innovator in that sense, for sure. Yeah, and then their first sort of big. original show, I mean, Stand-Up. Spotlight did pretty well, but My. Generation, I remember in 1989 with. Peter Noone of Herman's Hermits Mhm.

hosting and it was, you know, it was. just him. DJing and spinning records, but also. sort of talking about trivia, kind of. like a Turner Classic Movies for. boomers. Uh pretty much. Yeah. Um and I was like, "Herman's Hermits, I know for a fact I. know that band, but I can't remember. what their big hit was.". So, I was looking all over YouTube. I. found one of their greatest hits albums. and I just had to skip through all the. songs. No, that's not it. Never heard. that one before. I don't know who would. like this one. And then I finally got to. something tells me I'm into something.

good. Yeah, I knew I knew where your. head is. And I know that one from the the. romantic montage in Naked Gun. That's. right. >> Um. and that's my uh Herman's Hermits story. Uh you know, these videos that that they. were playing on My Generation, a lot of. them were just old sort of when they did. promotional videos before the true music. video format came out. Uh but they also. played new stuff. There was plenty of. Michael Bolton. and crossover stuff that also was.

playing on MTV that VH1 would, you know, plenty of Rod Stewart, obviously. Yeah, Rod Stewart turns out was to music. videos what Enya is to crossword. puzzles. Right. Like just perennial, right? >> She She just popped up again this week. in the crossword. Did she really? Oh, yeah. It's funny. Yeah, that's. >> It just keeps happening. That's pretty. cool. I love this ride for her. Yeah. Um yes, that was kind of a problem though is. because some of these acts were already. past their prime when they were showing.

videos on VH1. They hadn't made videos. They were They were their prime came. before that whole marketing tool that we. talked about on the MTV episode. So, they would have to piece together things. like concert footage. or like you said, maybe even like TV. appearances or something like that and. just basically make like a an edited. version to make a music video for a. particular song. So, they VH1 was kind. of hamstrung in a lot of ways right out. of the gate. Yeah, and that's all.

because Peter Noon demanded it. Right. He's a tyrant. Yes, he was quite. a tyrant. Everyone knows that. You don't. even have to know the song Something. Tells Me I'm Into Something Good to know. that Peter Noon was a tyrant. Uh mid-90s, they found themselves. floundering a bit though because they. never really got an identity outside of. being sort of the. you know, I I you know, if you were an. MTV kid, you thought VH1 was kind of. boring. And it was like stuff your. parents might be into, kind of a little. more square. But because it was square.

>> No. >> Well, I know, but that's not an identity. that you want to claim. So, they had like a mishmash of. different shows going on. They had a. show called Archives that was just kind. of rebroadcasting old TV interviews that. they I guess had rights to. Uh and so, you know, they they just. lacked an identity aside from being. square. And they also had the same pressures. that MTV had when with competition. coming in. And so much so that cable. operators were like, "I don't like I. don't want to even though it's free, I.

don't want it anymore." Right. So, they. were trying to get rid of VH1, uh. you know, actively. I think the biggest. cable operator in the country at the. time, uh Tele-Communications Inc., uh. they were like, "I don't even want this. free thing." Yeah, for free. That's pretty sad. That's that's not. good. And actually, it was a dude named. John Sykes who essentially saved VH1. Yeah. Also, I Heart uh media executive. Is he? Yeah. Okay. Well, congratulations, John Sykes, because he.

definitely turned VH1 around. He was. what you would call a good hire. Yeah. Because in 1994, they brought him on. And he so um. changed VH1 for the better that in 1995, their subscriber base was 49 million. households. Three years later, it was up. to 62 million households. That's what. they call the Sykes effect. Yeah. Yeah, and he'd walk out of the room and.

say, "You got Sykes.". Uh they started new original music. programming, and that that was really. part of the big rebranding effort uh. that was so successful. Uh Top 10. countdown in in '94, eventually Top 20. countdown, was sort of the big first one. Uh but in. 1996, they really really hit it big pop. culturally with a little show called. Pop-Up Video. Yes. I remember watching. this. And and it was one of the things.

about it. So, Pop-Up Video, if you've. never seen it, they would just show. music videos, but then there were these. little um kind of like cartoon word. bubbles would pop up with um some some. random fact about the artist, uh maybe a. little trivia, um something about music. history. Or, and this is I think what. captured everybody, some sort of juicy. little bit of gossip or random weirdness. that had to do with that specific video.

And the two guys who were behind it, uh. Woody Thompson and Tad Low, um. apparently, they got pushback from the. parent company because the parent. company also owned Blockbuster. And they. knew from owning Blockbuster, foreign. films didn't go anywhere because people. didn't like subtitles. Yeah. >> were like, "No one's going to want to. read anything." But they were very wrong. because, in large part, Thompson and Low. were good writers. So, this kind of. became known for being um a much smarter.

show Yeah. >> than you would guess it would be. Yeah, it was very clever and a huge huge hit. Like um. I I remember watching it. I don't. remember like setting my. my calendar to sit around and make sure. I knew when it was on. >> Right. But I definitely found myself. watching it quite a bit. It was a fun. show. Uh Storytellers came out in 1996, which was uh clearly aimed at the kind. of um. you know, younger boomer, maybe older. Gen X generation cuz they just had. classic rock artists after classic rock. artist in an intimate setting singing.

songs, telling stories about the writing. of those songs. Very very popular show. Yes. And anytime I think of. Storytellers, I think of um the Saturday. Night Live skit but with Neil Diamond. I don't think I saw that. >> Oh, it was Will Ferrell as Neil Diamond, and he is just off the rails. At one. point, he says he's on some dynamite. pills. Right. His keyboard is Kenny gave. him and. He at one point, he said, "I will smack. you in the mouth. I'm Neil Diamond." And.

uh it was just bizarre that he he made. this Neil Diamond character. But the. ironic part of it is Neil Diamond was. never on Storytellers. No. Well, maybe. that's how they got away with it. >> It's worth going back and seeing, man. It's a all-time great sketch. Better. than Robert Goulet? That was pretty. good. Yeah. Okay. 100 times, maybe. 125. Oh, wow. You did the math? Yeah. Uh Legends was another big show that. came out that same year in 1996. Uh this. was just straight-up rock doc stuff. Uh.

pretty you know, straightforward 1-hour. documentary style. Uh again, you know, artists like Bowie and Aretha Franklin. and you know, The Clash was in there. I. mean, I you know, still aimed at that. audience. They knew what their bread and. butter was. But they started making kind. of good shows to support it. Yeah, and. one reason that John Sykes kind of. brought it back to music videos and then. made all this original music programming. is um the boomers to start and then. eventually Gen X followed in their.

footsteps, they kept buying new music. Like they. kept listening to music into their 30s. and 40s. Previous generations hadn't. done that. Like apparently, you were. done with music when you turned 30. because life sucked and it was serious. and you were in black and white. And if. you were a woman, you wore an apron all. day. If you were a man, you just drank. scotch all day. Um you just didn't. listen to music after a certain point. And that changed. So, it made sense that. you would kind of target those. generations because they also had the.

most uh pocket money or spending money, too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, new music that is. Like the the Mad Men guys listened to. the whatever uh Artie Shaw or the. whatever orchestra. But there were no. there were no guys in the 1950s in their. 30s saying like, "What's What's the. What's new out there? Right. What What. can you turn me on to?" I remember one. of the more disappointing moments I've. ever had in relation to my father was. going through his old record collection. And the the artist he had the most 45s.

of was Jackie Gleason, somehow. At least your dad had records. My dad. didn't even listen to music hardly. But. your dad made his own music in his Jeep. on his CB. Yeah, that's true. It was weird. I had a. weird family. >> You had a whole convoy soundtrack going. That's true. He would get I think I. mentioned he would get obsessed with. like a song. And that's it. And he'd say, "Hey, uh. Scott, go go record that like 17 times. in a row on a on a tape for me.".

And Scott would be like, "I can't do. that.". >> Here's your tape of Hot Blooded 17. times. Uh '97 was when it really hit the big. time uh with Behind the Music. Um. I think Olivia helped us out with this. one along with the MTV article. And she. aptly calls it Legends' uh evil twin. Because these were 1-hour documentaries, but they were. it got known very quickly for being very. melodramatic and very juicy with like. the dirt uh the stories about what.

happened, you know, the real gossipy. stuff. Lurid, even, I think in a lot of. ways. Yeah, and it ran for a long time. It did. '97 to I think 2014. Yeah. Um one of the ones one of the very. um famous episodes. But they had a ton. of episodes on from bands from Megadeth. to Bette Midler to Notorious B.I.G. Yeah. Uh one of the ones that really. kind of infiltrated pop culture though. was Leif Garrett. Yeah. >> like a teen idol in the '70s.

Um and he was reunited in his Behind the. Music with a friend who had become. paralyzed from a car crash that Leif. Garrett caused when he was drunk back in. the '70s. And it was very melodramatic. and very kind of drippy. And um it just. kind of made it out as a meme, eventually. I saw Brian on Family Guy. They started one of the episodes. >> Oh, really? He was just sitting there, I. guess, watching Behind the Music and. mouthing along word for word with the.

dialogue between Leif Garrett and his. friend. Uh shall we take a break? I didn't expect that, but you know what? I love that you surprised me. So, sure. All right. It's 1997. Uh we'll be back. to jump back in time a bit and then go. forward in time a bit. [Music].

[Applause]. [Music]. All right. So, we're back. We promised. to jump back in time, and we have to. because '97 was Behind the Music, but in. '95, uh VH1 got into the fashion biz as. well as as MTV had done with Cindy. Crawford when they started they. partnered up with Vogue magazine to. start hosting the annual fashion awards. And that is well, it's well-known.

because they did a pretty good job with. that as far as the ratings go. But. that's also where Derek Zoolander, who. we just mentioned, I think, in the MTV. episode, he appeared for the first time. at the fashion awards. Yeah. Um it was. like a pre-taped little bit, a. 1-or-2-minute bit. Um but in the movie. Zoolander, he faces his greatest public. humiliation at the VH1 Fashion Awards. So, they showed up in the movie, which I. just watched I watched recently and it. holds up, man. It's still pretty funny,

yeah. I bet Ruby would like that. I bet, too. I would I would definitely show it. to her. Is it just her kind of silly, I. think. >> It is a very silly movie. Uh '97, they launched Save the Music. John Sykes, uh he was principal for a day at a. school in Brooklyn that had no music. program or couldn't get funding. And. that still exists, so that's sort of a. feather in their cap as the Save the. Music Foundation. Yeah, I read that they. donated 2.8 million recorders to schools. across the country.

No, are you kidding? Or is that real? I'm kidding. Are you mocking the recorder? Yes, I am, Chuck. Oh. Hey, hey, if you're if you're a. recorder. uh. maestro out there, just keep on doing it. Don't listen to. Josh. No, don't listen to me. In fact, listen to me for this part, if you would. make us a um music bumper for our ad. breaks, that would be awesome. Yeah, well, if you can get it well, it'll be I.

wish we could put the call out before. this episode came out so we could put it. in this episode. I mean, we can try. Yeah, maybe I'll do it on the Instagram. page and see what happens. >> Okay. All right, moving on. To politics, right? Yeah, apparently Bill Clinton was a big. uh VH1 viewer viewer and he donated one. of his old saxophones to the Save the. Music program. Yeah. And uh they also, I. guess, in return made a documentary. about him, Bill Clinton, colon, Rock and.

Roll President. This was 1997, don't. forget. That's right. Uh. and they also got into the live business. uh with their very very successful. series of Divas concerts. >> Mhm. Uh the first one was in 1998. I I. remember this being a very big deal. because they got uh Aretha Franklin, Mariah Carey, Shania Twain, uh Gloria. Estefan, Carole King, and who else? Celine Dion. Oh, yeah. You can't have a. Divas concert in '98 without Celine Dion.

pounding her chest. >> No, that's a murderers' row of divas. Yeah, absolutely. So, even despite all. of this reprogramming, very very. successful and popular programming, you. could argue that if this wasn't the. golden era of VH1, it was certainly one. of the golden eras. Yeah. Um cable operators were still dropping. VH1. I guess they hadn't gotten the news. yet, right? Um so, VH1 kind of organizes something. similar to I Want My MTV that MTV had.

used before it started getting picked up. by cable operators. And they actually staged a protest in. Denver because the um I guess the cable. cable operator there had dropped VH1 and. they got Don Henley and John Mellencamp. and Jewel to fly out there and um. protest. Uh and I guess uh route they. were in the air and the cable operator. got word of what was about to happen and. they agreed to pick VH1 back up. They're like, Don Henley's coming. You don't want to mess with the hen. You.

definitely don't want to mess with Don. Henley. No. Uh they were pretty uh successful in. getting, like you said, all those. viewers back in uh to the delight of ad. sales people uh because they had that 18. to 49-year-old demographic that is so uh. juicy and everyone knows those are the. people that have all the bucks. Mhm. Uh. or at least back then they did and so. they, you know, they were able to land. some big ad dollars as a result and were. seemingly thriving. Yeah, and it didn't. hurt that there were plenty of like new.

artists who were making the kind of. music that would make a little more. sense on VH1 than, say, MTV, like. Natalie Merchant, Celine Dion, as you. mentioned, was enormous at this time. You probably would not see a Celine Dion. video on MTV, but she was right at home. and on VH1. Yeah. Michael Bolton? Michael Bolton. Alanis probably. straddled the two. Same with like the. Wallflowers or Goo Goo Dolls or. something like that. Ooh. Okay. And these are real deal. I watched.

some VH1 blocks to come up with some. examples. So, all of those had. >> had videos on VH1, everybody. That's the. kind of research you can expect from. Stuff You Should Know. Yeah, I think like before dad rock was a. term, that was probably the angle. >> What's dad I've not heard that before, so what does it cover? Uh dad rock is. kind of like uh I know Wilco gets thrown. in there a lot as like, you know, kind. of dudes my age that like used to go to. all the shows, but now just so I could. get out to Wilco like every year and.

you know, that kind of thing. >> I saw this meme on Instagram where it's. this um girl sitting in a like a stadium. seat and she has a very unhappy look on. her face. and uh it says uh anyone over 40 when. the third opening band starts to set up. at 9:00 p.m. It's so true, man. That's funny. >> It just starts too late. Yeah, I'm with you. Uh shows are. starting earlier though, I feel like. >> yeah. Like these legacy shows that I'm seeing.

at all these olds, uh they're they're they're getting up on. stage at like, you know, opening band at 7:00, regular band at. 8:00, out out by 9:30, 9:45. Hey, we. start at 7:00 promptly. If we ever start. late, yeah, if we start later than 7:00, it's the venue itself saying, "Please. let us hold cuz we're making mad cash at. the bar.". Yeah, it's actually the the uh. audience's fault. Yeah, it really Cuz. they're like, they're not in yet. They're they're just getting here. There's a lot of traffic. It's actually. traffic's fault. In some towns are are.

worse for it than others. Some some. towns are just like, "We know you're not. going to start while we're getting. liquor. Sorry.". Yeah. Uh but like with MTV, um they. would, you know, start sort of changing. things and rebranding. Uh these are. companies that just seemingly changed. the channels, uh not literally, but. changed their programming a lot and like. the names of the channel change a lot. >> Yes. Like, you know, MTV to MTV2 and MTV. Classic and VH1 kind of did the same. They had VH1 Soul, uh which is now BET. Soul BET Soul.

VH1 Smooth, which was uh more like Kenny. G kind of stuff. But then they're like, "Who wants that? Let's change that to VH1 Classic Rock.". And then just VH1 Classic. And now it's. MTV Classic. >> It's quite a ride for that channel. Yeah. Yeah, VH1 Smooth, I can't believe that. ever made it outside of the initial. meeting. Yeah, true. Um so, VH1, just like MTV, is like, "Okay, if we can't hold. people's attention from video to video, we got to come up with a different kind.

of show.". And so, they stopped playing videos. almost it dropped almost by 50% from '99. to 2012. Yeah. And remember, like it had been. relaunched in '94 as like VH1 Music. First and it just it wasn't sustainable. at the turn of the millennium, right? Mhm. So, they started getting into. countdown shows. They figured out how. they could keep showing videos, they. just needed to adjust it, put them in a. certain kind of um package that would.

hold your attention a little more. Nothing does that better than a. countdown and they kicked it off in. grand style with the 100 greatest. artists of rock and roll hosted by none. other than Kevin Bacon. Yeah. And this. kicked off their whole great the. greatest countdowns um format, which. started in '98 '99, sorry, and ran to. 2012. Yeah, which, you know, I was kind of. thinking about it. They ended up the. last episode was 40 greatest pranks part.

four. So, and I was like, "What a weird kind of. thing?" But it that was right in the. middle of the of the listical. revolution. >> Sure. Uh that was going on online and this is. kind of the same version of that cuz I. was like, "Oh, man, I remember when you. and I were. writers for How Stuff Works back in the. day.". >> Mhm. We were sort of fighting up against. that because it seems like that was what. the internet became for a period of. years was just list top 10 list list. list list list. >> Yeah, I mean, where do you think our 10.

Dumb Criminals episode came from? >> Yeah. Yeah, and that's one reason why we don't. do a lot of those anymore is cuz people. aren't writing that kind of stuff. anymore. I like to think we change with the time. Yeah, plus also they can they can be. kind of thin. Every once in a while. though, it's a it's a good one. I I. don't I can't think of any off the top. of my head, but we've done some good top. 10s that. >> Yeah, I mean, they're pretty breezy, which I think people enjoy from time to. time. >> For sure. Um so, the luridity kind of really. started to to show itself a little more.

um with Where Are They Now, a 1999 show. that basically said, "Where are like. one-hit wonders and former child stars? What are they doing now?". Um let's just peek in on their sad lives. and see what's what. Yeah, uh they got into movies. Uh one. thing we didn't mention was MTV Films, uh which had some pretty successful. movies uh that they were putting out. I. I think I I think I remember uh the. movie Election from Alexander Payne, one. of my favorite movies. >> a good one. I think that was an MTV. Film, but VH1 didn't fare as well on the.

movie front, but they did have one sort. of noteworthy one called Two of Us, uh which was which was okay. It was in. 2000. It was a fictionalized story about. uh when Paul McCartney and John Lennon. were hanging out in 1976 the night that. uh Lorne Michaels on SNL um on air said. if the Beatles come down here, I'll pay. you I can't remember. It was like a. million bucks or something. >> $3,000. Was that what it was? That's what I saw, which I was like, "Even in 1976, that. wasn't that much money." I can't.

remember. I mean, you can watch the clip. on YouTube and see him say it with his. own mouth. I just didn't have a chance. Yeah. I But at any rate, it was a. fictionalized version of them hanging. out that night, which is supposedly a. true story. >> Right. That they were going to come down and. play on SNL. Like, yeah, know, wasn't that far from. the Dakota. >> What happened? Uh supposedly they were too stoned. Oh, no. That's That's how the story goes, at. least. Uh and by stoned, you mean on. heroin, probably. No, I think they each. took two PCP's. Oh, there you go.

As per the instructions. Yeah, yeah. So, by this time they finally dropped. pretense. This would be VH1 we're. talking about again, and they just. stopped using the music first tagline. cuz it was just a bold-faced lie at this. point. Um Legends ended, Pop Up Videos. ended, uh and it was time for a new. shake-up because John Sykes had done his. his work. And so, MTV Networks hired a. new guy named Brian Graden. Uh and he said, "We're going to shift. more toward pop culture, right? We're. not even going to show blocks of videos.

anymore and countdowns." And he hired a. a guy named Jeff Old, who was new. And. um he became executive vice president. for programming and production. And the. thing that Old brought to this whole. thing, following the um marching orders. to make more pop culture-relevant shows, is for he gave his producers free rein. to just You got an idea? Put it on air. And if it works, awesome. If it doesn't, uh whatever. It's called the agile um. format of project management, where you.

just do a bunch of stuff, some of it. fails, and you just keep going. Yeah. I. mean, not a bad idea. No, and the other. thing about it, too, is that kind of. stuff, like greenlighting a a really. easy um. uh show idea quickly, usually means you. can make it very cheaply. And that was. what they did. They made very, very. inexpensive shows that uh still were. very, very popular because the concepts. were so good. Yeah, and I Love the 80s was the first.

big, big hit out of that camp. Uh that. premiered in 2002. Uh it was It's not a show I watched. much, but it was one that was almost. kind of hard to avoid somehow. >> Mhm. Uh I feel like I I remember just seeing. Michael Ian Black on my screen a lot. Uh here and there. He was one of the. comedians. He was He was on like a. million episodes of it, I think. Yeah, he did He did great with that. But it. was comedians and celebrities just sort. of you know, it was like kind of quick. clip stuff of them sitting, talking head. style, talking and reminiscing about.

whatever the decade was. Yeah, it's. funny. So, it was a clip show of talking. heads. And it would frequently end up on. Talk Soup, which was a clip show of. talking heads. Yeah. >> So, Talk Soup would be covering another. clip show, but it worked. Talk Soup was. great. Yeah, I enjoyed Talk Soup. Uh I Love the. 80s was based on a BB show that was. definitely a little more serious in sort. of recounting the decade. Uh but it was. a big hit uh again in the 18-49.

demographic. And so, they did the I Love. the 70s, I Love the 90s. They did I Love. the New Millennium, which only covered. through 2007 cuz it debuted in 2008. And I think in 2014, I Love the 2000s. was the last one in the series that ran. >> Right. Uh another great show was called uh Best. Week Ever, and then eventually Best Week. Ever with Paul F. Tompkins. >> Yeah. Uh because friend of the show and our. pal uh Paul was the host, where they. recounted the the last week. And this.

was a big launching pad for a lot of. like great, great comedians. Yeah, it. was. Um it was a spin-off from I Love. the 80s. I think P. F. Tompkins was one. of the comedians, one of the frequently. recurring comedians on that show. Yeah, you you want me to list out some. comedians who. started there? >> love that, Chuck. Please Please do. And I'm not saying that they were not. doing anything, but uh certainly were. not the household names they are now. But Nick Kroll, okay, Paul Scheer, Doug. Benson, Rob Huebel, uh little little comedian named John.

Mulaney, uh the wonderful Jessa Jessica St. Clair, Michael Show, Michael Ian Black, Patton Oswalt. And I was watching some of Best Week. Ever uh this morning. And. Paul's uh wonderful wife who we spoken. about, Janie Haddad Tompkins, was in one. of the little bits. And I had no idea. Janie was ever on there. So, I'm going. to I took a screenshot and I'm going to. text it to her later. Nice. So, that. that If it was launched in 2004, those. people's careers did start to take off. around that time or after that. So, it.

it must have been a huge launching pad. for them, for sure. Yeah, it was a fun. show. But it also goes to show you all. like all of those names were pretty much. recognizable today. Um that also is a. testament to just how popular Best Week. Ever and I Love the 80s was. So, VH1 was. doing a pretty good job shifting away. from music, right? But they still hadn't. gotten into what we would call reality. yet. And. it's about here that you'll notice we.

stop talking about music pretty much. altogether and get into the world of. reality TV. All right. I guess that means a break. Right? Yeah. All right. We'll be right back. [Music]. [Applause].

[Music]. So, um Chuck, we talked about how VH1 is. trans transitioning into um reality. shows. And they didn't invent reality. shows. They were a really early. contributor, and they had a lot of. reality shows over the years. Still do. But they came up with the term um. celebrity-ality. And I did not know this, but so. celebrity-ality is um usually minor.

celebrities in a reality show. Sometimes. big celebrities. Yeah. But the whole. thing that kicked it off, I didn't know. this was um Ted Nugent's Yeah. >> celebrity reality show Surviving Nugent. Yeah, I remember that being on. Didn't. watch it. Uh. but that was, you know, Ted Nugent had. um. people out to to do what Ted Nugent. does, which is shoot guns and shoot. arrows and do uh. do things that the Nuge was into. >> Yeah, it was like a competition reality.

show, and he would have It was He was. the arbiter of who stayed or went. And. competitions would be like them carrying. manure with their bare hands or climbing. under an electrified fence. And I It was real enough that at one. point Ted Nugent suffered a chainsaw cut. to his leg, self-inflicted, that. required 40 stitches. It's a lot of stitches. It really is. But this was not So, again, this is this was kind of. contemporaneous to The Osbournes, which.

beat Surviving Nugent by a year, in the. same time as The Simple Life. Oh, yeah. >> So, this was definitely it was in the. air that people wanted to see. celebrities acting bizarrely in real. life. And I just made such air quotes. that I actually just jammed one of my. fingers. Right. Uh The Surreal Life became a big hit for. them after they co-opted it from the WB. a couple of years after uh it debuted. It was a a much bigger hit on VH1. >> Mhm. Um and that eventually led to um.

maybe I mean, I don't know. I was about. to say unlikely, but maybe not because. Flavor Flav has so much charisma and. personality. >> Yeah. I was always so into Public Enemy from. like high school on. They were probably. my favorite hip-hop group of all time. And uh so, it was a little weird for me. all of a sudden to see Flav. like doing his thing on a reality show. But the. the Flavor of Love was a tremendous hit. It was only around for a few years, but. it was like it invaded the the zeitgeist.

in a big way. >> Yeah, and so, he he became a a reality. TV star thanks to The Surreal Life. I. think he was in season 3. And one of the. other shows he was on was Strange Love, which followed his relationship with. Brigitte Nielsen, who was a good 2 ft taller than him. Striking blonde, um. who they fell in love when when they met. on The Surreal Life. Um and they shared. quarters with Charo, Dave Coulier,

Jordan Knight from New Kids on the. Block. Um and so, that spawned Strange. Love and Flavor of Love. And then um Flavor of Love spawned uh I. Love New York starring Tiffany "New. York" Pollard, who was one of the. contestants on Flavor of Love. Flavor of Love also inspired Rock of. Love, which featured Bret Michaels from Poison. replacing the Flavor Flav as the. bachelor, right?

Yeah, the still the only show like that. I've ever watched. I I did uh watch Rock. of Love. >> Yeah. I. I don't know why I started, but I. started, and I couldn't stop. That's the sign of a VH1 reality show. right there, buddy. Yeah, for sure. Uh so, whoever was. pulling the strings, you know, you know, after The Surreal Life was on and Flav. was on there, that there was some uh. there was some guy, some kind of square. in the office, that was like, "Who's. this guy with a clock? He's fantastic.".

We we got to get him his own show. >> Yeah, I know. It's nuts, but it worked, for sure. Um there were two other big. offshoots from The Surreal Life. I mean, there were cavalcade of them, but there. were some other big shows that came from. it. One was My Fair Brady, which. followed Christopher Knight and Adrian. Curry. Christopher Knight was Peter. Brady. Yeah. >> And Adrian Curry uh in their unlikely. relationship. They met on Surreal Life, as well. And then the side Wait, who was. she? She was a Playboy model. Ah, okay.

Uh and then uh Salt-N-Pepa had their own. show because I guess they were on The. Surreal Life. I didn't know that. But they had. >> Uh I didn't know that. >> They were reuniting. or thinking about reuniting. I guess. Pepa was trying to talk Salt into it, but Salt had had a religious conversion. and was hesitant to take up the hip-hop. life again. Wow, interesting. Well, it sort of. filled a void as Libya sort of aptly. pointed out that, you know, there was. there was a big boom for. sitcoms about black families in the '90s.

and even in the early 2000s, but then. there was sort of a dearth of those for. a little while, so this kind of, you. know, filled that void and VH1 took. notice and started sort of delivering. content to black America and and still. do. Yes, and they can take some guff for. it sometimes. In part, I I saw it best. explained on the Root by Danielle C. Belton. And she basically says they. broadcast for black Americans, but. they're not at all beholden to black. Americans, so they can do basically.

whatever they want and they very. frequently. feature stereotypes of black women like. angry and violent and prone to yelling. and stuff like that. So, that it's like a mixed bag. Yeah. >> But however you approach it, as of back. in 2014, I didn't see any more recent. statistics, but in 2014, VH1 was the. number one network in African-American. households followed by BET and the Oprah. Winfrey Network. So, they were.

definitely doing something that black. America liked. If they beat Oprah out, yeah, that's. that says a lot. >> Yes, it does. >> And BET. >> Yeah, for sure. Another show that got them a lot of flak. eventually was Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew Pinsky. That premiered in 2008. There's a critic that Libya found in. Kaylee Donaldson called it perhaps the. most evil reality TV series of all time. You probably know Dr. Drew from Loveline. with Adam Carolla early on and he Dr. Drew is was and is, I guess,

a real, you know, therapist and trained. at treating addiction. So, he wasn't just some some, you know, pretty face that they put on TV and he. claimed that he wanted to make it like a. real a real like meaningful show where. it was like an antidote to the the cruel. tabloid depictions of these people that. were suffering through addiction. But he, you know, he also had to deliver. an entertaining show and those two. things could be at odds and it got a lot. of flak cuz like people started dying. from their addictions.

>> Yeah, by 2024, 12 of by my count about. 45. um. rehab patients on the show had died. A. lot of them from. like overdosing or direct complications. from their addictions like brain. aneurysms. Which I I is about more it's a little. more than a quarter. Which apparently is actually in line. with the success rate of traditional. rehab. It's just much much much more um.

visible, but it was also again the the L. word, lurid, to just show people's, you know, low points and rock bottom. after rock bottom on TV for money for ad. money, you know? Yeah, for sure. Um and speaking of. lurid, we're loath to mention. Diddy, but there was a show called I. Want to Work for Diddy in 2008 and a a. silver lining of that is that it. launched the career of Laverne Cox. And also just launched the the sort of.

normalization of trans people on TV. A. couple of years after that show, Laverne. Cox and fellow trans women Jamie Clayton. and Nina Poon got their own VH1 show. called Transform Me. It's kind of a. Queer Eye for the Straight Guy kind of. thing, but for cis women and it was. one of the first shows with trans stars. Yes. Like period. And you put all this. together and VH1 had its highest Nielsen. ratings ever in this era. Um the late 2000s. The aughts as we who.

lived through it call them. And then tragedy struck and the. publicity was so searingly bad that VH1. essentially threw the the company that. had been cranking out hit after hit for. them under the bus. And it centered around the murder. by a man named Ryan Jenkins who had been. a contestant on not one or had been. featured on not one but two VH1 reality.

shows. He murdered his wife Jasmine. Fiore. Yeah, he was a real estate developer. He. was a, you know, they got rich guys to. be contestants on a dating show. called Megan Wants to Be I'm sorry, Megan Wants a Millionaire. And 51 Minds was the name of this. company that was like turning out these. shows. After the show ended, he married Jasmine Fiore and he got on I. Love Money 3, another VH1 show.

And they they said 51 Minds is like, "Hey, in retrospect, I remember this. storyline we had. It was going to revolve around him. calling his new wife a lot and seemingly. obsessive and jealous and very. suspicious. And he ended up murdering her in August. of 2009. Yeah, it got even worse than that. He. tried to prevent her from being. identified, so he removed her fingers. and her teeth. He put her folded her up.

in a suitcase and dumped the suitcase in. a dumpster. And I read that it almost worked, but. they identified her they had to identify. her through the serial numbers on her. breast implants. And so all this comes out and it's very. clear that Ryan Jenkins was to blame. He hung himself in a motel room. And in. his. note even, he blames Jasmine Fiore for. him killing himself. He doesn't take any. responsibility whatsoever for killing. her. >> I remember that now. That's I wasn't.

familiar, but as soon as he said that, I. kind of remember that storyline. >> Yes, and all of this happens in 1 month. in 2009. And if you were pumping out. lurid reality show after lurid reality. show, your viewership is going to be. highly interested in this story. Yeah. And it's going to get out and it's going. to. get out to the rest of America who's. going to make a bunch of noise about how. terrible these reality shows are and. here's evidence of it. Because also that. Ryan Jenkins guy, it turned out that he. had been convicted in Canada of.

assaulting his girlfriend and it didn't. show up on a or he had been arrested, I'm sorry, of assaulting his girlfriend. in Canada, hadn't shown up on a. background check. Yeah. So, people were. like, "This stuff is terrible." And VH1. said, "You know what? We agree. It's all. that company that. sent us these. shows. We didn't even want them. We. didn't even ask for them." This company. 51 Minds, they just they just made us. run these shows and they really threw. them under the bus. And made it look like they were turning.

their back on the whole concept. Um. and they did largely. There was a huge. shift, but there were still shows like. Naked that was on from 2014 to 2016 and. a lot of their existing reality shows. continued on past this scandal, but they. did shift a little more to reality TV. that was made by black creators. They. they kind of moved away from the more. lurid stuff to a little more engrossing.

black created. shows. Yeah, RuPaul's Drag Race has been a a. big hit, sort of a niche hit, but. very very popular show. It's, you know, it's RuPaul, so it's it's campy. It's a. parody of of reality competition that. launched in 2009. on Logo, but then moved to VH1 in 2017. and then eventually MTV in 2023. >> That's a long run. Yeah, Love & Hip Hop has been a very big. show. created by Mona Scott Young. That was it.

it started out with kind of being about. Jim Jones the rapper and then eventually. shifted over to his girlfriend Chrissy. Lampkin and just the hip-hop scene in. New York and their world. >> Same with Basketball Wives by Shaquille. O'Neal's ex-wife Shaunie Henderson. Yeah, big hit. It just had its 12th. season and then Nick Cannon Presents. Wild 'N Out, which is a improv. competition show. And they're still. making new episodes. It started out on. MTV and then moved to VH1 in 2019. And.

very much like Ridiculousness, reruns of. Wild 'N Out are carrying VH1 right now. apparently with with Fresh Prince of. Bel-Air and My Wife and Kids reruns. I never saw Dating Naked. What was that. about? It was exactly what it sounds. like. Oh, okay. Exactly. There's no it. needs no explanation whatsoever. Okay. I was kidding. Oh. Man, you got me, buddy. I think we're even for all time now.

Okay, good. Well, Chuck said, "Okay, good." and we don't have anything more. to say about VH1 except go watch some. VH1. And that means it's time for listener. mail. That's right. By the way, I was not. bagging on Wilco. I hope it didn't come. across that way. They are. sort of thrown in that dad rock. category, but I always love Wilco. I. read all of Jeff Tweedy's books. Mhm. Was big into Uncle Tupelo, so I'm not. bagging on Wilco. I like Wilco. Jeff. Tweedy's The Spy Master and The. Tinkerer?

Yeah, well, yeah, of course. And The. Tinkerer, too, is really good. Hey, Chuck, Josh, and Jerry have been. listening for a few years and used to do. the sandwich method for listening to the. episodes, but recently decided to work. all my way through and catch up to the. present. I find this is a better method. personally since listener mail and. references for past shows don't really. make sense when listening to newer. episodes. >> It's true. before listening to the. episodes that came before. Anyhow, this is not why I'm writing in. I'm not sure if you're aware, but Chuck. Stradamus struck again.

The episode April 26, 2018, Does. Pyromania Actually Exist? Josh brings up. John Leonard Orr, convicted serial arsonist mass murderer, [Music]. Wow.

[Music]. Don't forget predicting Sharknado. Oh, and Sharknado. That's true. That. might be the feather in the cap. >> Mhm. Uh but in this case, I don't know.

if you can really claim Chuck Stradamus. territory if it's just like, "Hey, that. would make a good movie.". Then it became a movie. I feel like you really just burst. Brenda's bubble. No, I'm not I'm bursting my own bubble. What do you think? Can Can I get a. ruling from uh from you, dear leader? Uh. I will allow it as one of Chuck. Stradamus's. predictions that came true. All right, it's canon. Okay. Not Nick Cannon. No, we're not wildin'. out here. We're not. Uh if you want to. get in touch with us like Brenda and try.

your luck at having us burst your bubble. and have a lot of alliteration as we do, you can send us an email to. stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from. iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to your favorite shows.