The Tragic Death of Natalie Wood | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

[Music]. welcome to stuff you should know a. production of iHeart. Radio hey and welcome to the podcast I'm. Josh and Chuck's here to and Jerry's. here to and this is stuff you should. know part of our ongoing indefinitely. continuous true Prime Edition that's. right uh and weirdly our second paf. Tomkins reference is coming on this. episode oh yeah yeah because Paul's uh.

wonderful hysterical wife Janie looks. like Natalie. Wood okay is she known for that I mean I. don't know if she's internationally. known but I think Janie knows it and her. friends know it and it has been said out. loud I got you that's that's what I'm. after I didn't know if this is just your. observation or not oh no no no it's uh. it's it's been it's been said before. it's on record so um if you don't know. who Natalie Wood is first go look up.

Janie Tomkins you'll get a pretty good. idea you could also look up Natalie Wood. herself sure but you probably are. familiar with her one way or another. first of all she probably captured your. heart as the little girl who doubted the. existence of Santa Claus and Miracle on. 34th Street the original one she might. have also captured your heart as the. kind of good girl gone bad in Rebel. Without a Cause. mhm she also may have been like uh I.

like that girl in Westside Story or I. like that girl in Splender in the grass. or I like that girl in the 1976 made for. TV remake of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof well. then you like Natalie Wood guys yeah or. if you grew up like we did uh in the 80s. you might uh like her from the. Sci-Fi uh. classic not classic ' 80s early ' 80s. sci-fi classic brainstorm I never saw it. oh really yeah you should check it out.

it was sort of one of those it was in. the early ' 80s like there were a few. few of those movies that were kind of in. the same vein of uh do you remember the. movie looker yes like with Albert finny. and then there was the Tom celin about. the little RO with genene Simmons with. the little robot run away Runway it was. in that in that vein sort of oh okay. well I'll definitely that sounds like a. great triple feature if you ask me it's. kind of right up your alley I bet you'd. like it okay I'll check that one out I. have not seen that I was familiar with. her from Rebel Without a c cuz I went.

through a real big James Dean phase in. high school oh yeah you might also be. familiar yeah you might also be familiar. with her. sister Lana wood yeah she was plento. tool and diamonds are forever she was. very well known for that uh and both of. these sisters um were originally named. zacharo they were the daughters of. Russian immigrants Maria and Nick. zacharo who moved to San Francisco uh. and had these two kids and their mom. said you're both going to be Stars.

especially you Natalie born Natalia. that's right and uh Lana was born what. Sana so they you know they kind of. Americanized their names kind of kind of. and uh you know we're going to be. reading through a few different um Livia. helped us with this but she got a lot of. the stuff from a few different. biographies uh so if we reference like. uh Suzanne finstead biography or maybe. Robert Wagner's biography or. autobiography that's that's what we're.

talking about yeah or Sam cashner wrote. a very great Vanity Fair article on it. oh that's right very good one uh but. suzan uh finstad's uh biography recounts. the a childhood that uh wasn't as great. as it seemed from the outside uh that. her uh her father was an alcoholic uh. her mother was uh a very controlling. sort of manager of her career and would. organize uh meetings with the very. experienced uh men and actors uh trying.

to get her foot in the door uh including. one incident uh where she did so with uh. Kirk Douglas where uh she was uh well. she says she was raped by Kurt Douglas. when she was 16 uh at one of the one of. these meetings at the Chateau Mormont. and it was Kept Secret for many many. years until Kirk Douglas died and then. uh L came out and said well I feel like. I should reveal who this person was now. and I think this was in her book uh that. she wrote about her sister so there was.

also that account of her life yeah so um. that's just Kirk Douglas apparently her. mom arranged uh sexually liaison when. she was 15 with Frank Sinatra to get. this part in Rebel Without a Cause she. apparently had to prove she was capable. of being a bad girl by Sleeping with the. director who was 44 at the time I think. she was 16 then too and her mom was like. complicit in all of this like she's just. like this is the price for entry into. Hollywood so sorry kid just keep your.

mouth shut and your chin up um which is. I just can't imagine the the damage of. just these these instances but then of. being like that dismissed and. unsupported by you know your mom just I. can't it's just awful but she what's. amazing is that she managed to stay. alive and actually Thrive over the years. because she did develop a really amazing. career especially early on in the 60s. Yeah you mentioned all those you know. movies she was in uh in 1957 she married.

uh for the first time Robert Wagner uh. who you and I Josh would go on to know. as the lead actor in the 80s TV show. heart tohe heart co-starring Stephanie. Powers Stephanie Powers but in the. 1950s uh he was an actor kind of you. know wasn't super famous but he acted a. lot uh and then his his star rose as. hers was kind of fading uh but they. divorced in 196 1 um on their first.

marriage uh people you know some people. will say uh magazines especially back. then said that you know Natalie Wood. they broke up because he had she had an. affair with Warren batty uh her splend. in the grass co-star uh Sam cashner and. his article says yeah this basically is. what happened uh but in the finstad. biography she's like no no no uh that is. not true at all and including including. Lana will back this up um says you know. Natalie stumbled Upon Our J her husband.

having uh relations with a man and had a. suicide attempt which was one of several. apparently and that's what happened to. their first marriage yeah that but she. allowed the press to say that she had. had an affair with Warren batty the. reason that that held water even if it. wasn't true is because they were very. close on the set of Splendor in the. grass they had like just their. characters had like just this crazy. sizzling love affair and as actors it's. tough to separate those things I I. believe um and batty had a you know.

certain reputation yes so um apparently. uh that is what Robert Wagner thought he. thought that they were having an affair. and he was very jealous and very. protective and just felt um cuckolded I. guess by this even though supposedly it. didn't even happen but that's a really. important point that was one of the. reasons they broke up was he was very. jealous and very overprotective of. his relationship with her that's right.

uh she got married to a gentleman named. Richard Gregson after that in 1969 he's. a a British writer and actor uh just. sort of you know producer film industry. guy uh they had their daughter Natasha. uh who goes by Natasha Gregson Wagner uh. although she's married now she may have. added another name to the end of her. name I'm not sure Milla Cy Milla Cy uh. but she is an act too um I haven't seen.

anything in a little while I'm not sure. if she's still been doing that cuz she's. I know she made a documentary recently. about her mom but I remember seeing her. in a few movies uh back in the day that. she did a really good one with Robert. Downey Jr and I can't think of the name. of it now less than oh oh I know who it. is um the last days of disco no the. pickup artist no um he wasn't in the. last days of disco what was it I can't. remember Less Than Zero no weekend at.

Beres I think I think it was just like. three people in the movie it was it's a. very small oh no you know what it was. Weekend At Bernies there so she married. wag I'm sorry uh Gregson and uh during. that same period Wagner married a woman. named Mary and Marshall they had a. daughter named Katie in ' 64 and then. they eventually remarried in 72 and had. a daughter named Courtney so now there. are are three daughters uh one that uh. wood and Wagner had together and one of. each from previous. marriages uh for her part L wood was.

like why did why are you getting back. together with this guy and as recounted. in her book Natalie said sometimes the. devil you know is better than the devil. you don't yeah and the reason why Lana. wood or Lana wood was even questioning. her was because they had a tumultuous. relationship while they were married the. first time but apparently they never. fell out of love or they never stopped. loving each other is how I saw it put um. I think in an investigation discovery. documentary. um and so they they remarried in.

1972 uh they had Courtney in. 1974 and basically just went back to. married life but now with a family with. three daughters that was a big. difference between their first go around. they were trying to make the family work. and apparently it was going fairly well. yeah he was a little older wouldn't he. like seven or eight years older uh eight. I think eight years older MH uh and yeah. he got that role on heart tohe heart and. so he started you know doing pretty well.

in the industry uh while you know and. you know the same is true today and uh. an actress in her 40s uh they start. looking elsewhere generally speaking uh. unless you're you know like a Merill. Streep or somebody you're not going to. get the calls that you used to get and. that's what happened certainly with. Natalie Wood after great great Fame in. the 1960s 50s into the 60s and then it. started to sort of tail off into the 70s. yes but if you're a man in Hollywood and. as you start to age you become.

distinguished it's a different pH of. your career and that's certainly what. happened with Robert Wagner no he wasn't. washed up at 43 I guess he would have. been almost 50 yeah he actually his his. star started to rise again so they had. um oppositional careers as far as time. went M and that that figures in by the. way that's the reason we're talking. about this right so it's November 1981. they've been married again for 9 years.

and um Natalie Woods 43 Robert Wagner's. 51 and I say we take our first break and. come back and start talking about the. problem we'll be right. [Music]. [Laughter]. [Music]. back. [Music].

okay Chuck so um in Thanksgiving 1981. the weekend after Robert Wagner and. Natalie Wood took their yacht out the. Splendor 60 foot yacht pretty nice. apparently it had five staterooms the. whole deal it was like a legit yacht um. Robert Wagner was a boat guy a yacht guy. really I I think they took it um to.

Santa Santa Catalina Island better known. as Catalina Island um I think like 20. mil off the coast of Los Angeles and I. I've never been there but I get the. impression that it is very yacht. friendly almost like the south coast of. France is how I kind of take it um where. very rich people put their yachts in and. then go and party in town and then go. party from yacht to yacht and so they. showed up um Thanksgiving weekend it. said. Catalina Island um looking to have a.

good time yeah um they originally were. going to have a lot more friends on. board uh but apparently the weather was. uh the forecast was a little dodgy and. so the only person that came along uh. was Christopher Walkin uh who said uh it. takes more than a few raindrops to. frighten me it's not bad didn't you. interview Christopher Walkin On movie. Crush once yeah sure I did pretty cool. listen to that episode it's great and.

also listen to the Kevin Pollock episode. uh so the the reason that Christopher. Walkin was there because you're just. like well that's a little random Natalie. Wood Robert Wagner Christopher Walkin uh. he was an upand cominging actor at the. time I'm not even sure did he have um. The Dead Zone under his belt yet um I. mean he had done he did the deer hunter. by then Annie Hall and the Deer Hunter. and uh I don't know if Dead Zone it was. right around there but he was yeah he. was his thing a little bit he was like.

Hollywood's. it guy actor at the time like he was he. was in demand and he was co-starring in. this movie uh brainstorm with Natalie. Wood so she invited her co-star friend. to the yacht um and he was the only one. that came out of this whole group and. then very noteworthy is the fourth. person Dennis Davern he was the captain. of the yacht uh and so the four of them. were on this yachting weekend after. Thanksgiving that's right uh actually.

Dead Zone came out that very year so he. was this was kind of early Peak walking. okay so uh on Saturday the 28th of. Thanksgiving weekend they ate dinner uh. at Doug's Harbor Reef on Catalina they. got very very drunk uh the manager there. said that he was even worried that they. couldn't get back they had a little. inflatable motorized dingy you know. that's what you do when you have a yacht. to go to shore I was called the prince. Valiant which is also the name of an.

early Robert Wagner movie and obviously. Splender was named after Splender in the. grass so they had their little boats uh. hers was the yacht name his was the. dinghy name which is interesting and he. hated his role in Prince Valiant he he. felt it was his worst role he was. apparently mocked for it widely so it. was kind of like tongue and cheek that. he named the small boat valant yeah yeah. that makes sense then uh but the night. manager there at Doug's Harbor Reef was. like I don't even know if these because. they're so drunk they I fear for their.

safety of just getting back onto the. Splendor so he said hey Harbor Patrol uh. person can you make sure they get back. safely uh they left about 10: 10:30 at. night M and then at 1:30 in the morning. uh Robert Wagner and uh Captain Davern. made a call uh to the shore saying you. know Natalie what has gone missing we. need your help this is 1:30 a.m. 2 hours. later at 3:30 they called the Coast. Guard to get a formal search going and. then very tragically at 7:45 in the.

morning uh Davern identified the body of. Natalie Wood uh about a mile south of. where the yach was anchored uh in a. flannel night gown socks and a red down. jacket yep the dinghy they found washed. up on the shore uh and very very. importantly uh the ores were locked so. they they had not been used to row the. ignition was off so it had not been. turned on uh and yet it was just kind of.

washed away from the boat um this was an. enormous deal I mean like Natalie Wood. was already like Hollywood Legend and. what's more she was one of the reasons. she was having trouble getting parts was. not just her age but she was old. Hollywood and Hollywood had started to. transition in the 70s into like a newer. version of itself and kind of resented. the old Studios and stuff so she was. like Hollywood royalty at this time. already and the idea that she died um un.

from unnatural causes was just I mean it. was just a sensation right out of the. gate yeah I mean I remember this I was a. kid but I was a kid who devoured uh. Entertainment Tonight M uh the TV show. when that first came out which was. somewhere around here I remember being. about that age when that TV show. premiered and I would watch it every. night and keep up with that stuff and I. remember very distinctly uh Natalie Wood. dying and drowning and her husband I was.

like the heart to--he heart guy and kind. of out of the gate it was uh portrayed. as as an accident and that's sort of. what you know this podcast is going to. detail is the way the story has changed. over the years the suspicions that it. wasn't just a simple accident uh and it. kind of started off with the autopsy uh. there was a medical examiner named. Joseph Choy who said uh that Natalie. Wood's blood alcohol content level uh. was 0.14 which is very high yeah let me.

just I look that up I because I'm like. okay what does that actually mean in. like like physical and behavioral terms. yeah according to the South Australia. government 08 to 0.15 so just above what. Natalie Wood had in her bloodstream you. can expect slurred speech impaired. balance unstable emotions possible. nausea and vomiting just above 0.15 you. uh can't control your bladder um and you.

probably will need help walking around. so she was very drunk at the time she. died yeah and uh if you want to be very. very technically bored you should go. listen to our episode on. breathalyzers yeah they were really. difficult to explain that was a beast. and I'm surprised we don't remember that. more often when we're asked what. episodes have been the hardest or worst. definitely the hardest cuz there's like. a crystal involved that somehow like. tells your fortune and then they. translate that into ones and zeros a.

very very tough episode uh but it's out. there um he uh so Choy said 0.14% and. also that's the medical examiner right. yeah and also said that there were. bruises on her arms and legs and face. and basically said you know uh it looks. like she probably fell. overboard uh she was trying to get into. the dinghy she was very drunk and this. these bruises and things were is. evidence of her kind of doggedly trying. to get back on board unsuccessfully uh.

there was a chief medical examiner named. Thomas naguchi uh for the county who. said yeah and if you look at the dinghy. here there's scratches on the side of it. uh clearly she was trying to pull. herself back up on this thing but she. was in that down jacket and it became. very very heavy and she probably just. held on to that dinghy and got. hypothermia and exhausted and she. drowned and it's an accident yeah so. that was the official line for a very. long time for some reason Natalie Wood.

tried to yeah tried to get into the. Valiant the dinghy late at night she was. very drunk and as she was trying to get. into the dinghy she slipped and fell and. drowned she was well known as a strong. swimmer or uh not a strong swimmer not. very good at swimming at all the. opposite of a strong swimmer the thing. is is that doesn't explain why she tried. to get into the dinghy at night that was. it's always been an outstanding question. and so Thomas nuchi the chief medical. examiner for the Los Angeles County. coroner's office commissioned a.

psychological autopsy which is a thing. but from what I can tell it's a thing. that you commission when you're trying. to show that a a suspicious death that. seems accidental was actually. suicide like they take into account like. the person's life history their family. history social interactions what they. were doing right before they died so. it's kind of odd that he had this um. this commissioned it was even otter that. when he got it back he's like I'm not.

releasing to this to the public and he. said that he was afraid that he would be. accused of. sensationalism that ship had already. sailed he he was very much despised by. Natalie Wood's friends and just. Hollywood in general because he made the. grave mistake of mentioning that she was. drunk when she died accidentally at the. press conference about her death and. their findings and he um received the ey. of Frank Sinatra Screen Actor Guild and. generally all of Hollywood and ended up. being demoted from his position at the.

top of the coroner's office to uh not. Chief they actually assigned him the. title not Chief examiner anymore yeah I. I think it was definitely one of those. cases where she was Hollywood royalty. like you said and and no one in the. world wants to hear that Natalie Wood. got so drunk that she slipped and fell. into the water and drowned no it's. todrey yeah and so they tried to uh you. know they tried to keep that quiet uh it.

was a you know when he mentioned at the. press conference it was a big deal um. and now we get into sort of the you know. what happened after three decades and. how the story has changed over the years. yeah because just one thing one thing. chuck if if that were it and like the. story stayed straight all these years. and nothing ever changed it would be. fishy but not a big deal the reason that. it's a big deal and we're talking about. it today is that over the years the. people who were there change their. stories and that's why it goes from kind.

of fishy to an allout mystery yeah an. allout mystery and Scandal really uh. that you know how many years later is. this people are still sort of talking. about it people some people are still. obsessed with it and writing books about. it um for Wagner's part he has done like. I mentioned earlier uh there was an 86. authorized biography um heart tohe heart. uh spelled with an E this time not like. the TV show cuz on the TV show they were.

the hearts the hrts but he couldn't he. couldn't get the use out of the studio. he want to pay for that so. heart-to-heart with Robert Wagner and he. uh said in. 1986 uh that uh me and Chris walking. gotten an argument about politics um. there was another biography in 2008. called pieces of my heart uh I'm sorry. this is the autobiography uh that he. himself wrote obviously probably with. some help uh where he said actually the. the fight was about my wife um we were.

having an argument about her like you. know forget about this career you know. you had your day you should just be mom. now we got these three girls I've got. this great acting career going so let me. do that and Christopher Walkin was like. no she's Natalie Wood man wait wait wait. wait you got to do it as. [Laughter]. walking Korea matters. Robert God that's great tied for first.

with Sammy Davis Jr no well but it's. also like probably one of the worst. Walkins because everyone does Walkin and. most of them are pretty great I don't do. walking I I I admire your walking I'm. just going to put it out give it a shot. nothing uh. no you know what what happens when I. actually try to do a voice it goes south. same here so uh no matter how it shakes. out Wagner basically said uh you know as. far as what the fight was about was that.

even though that is key that he changed. his story cuz you know first it was. about politics and it was personal yeah. that's a big change it's a big change. but either way he said Natalie you know. was annoyed she was put off by all this. or she just got bored she went to the. master cabin and the last thing I saw of. her was when I went to check on her and. she was doing her hair the vanity and. basically shut the door on me right and. Christopher Walkin supported this they. were in an argument um Natalie Wood left. and then apparently according to um.

Robert Wagner's um autobiography after. Natalie Wood left they continued their. argument and it got so heated that uh. Robert Wagner smashed a wine bottle on. the table and to do if you're younger. and you're like this is bizarre behavior. you need to take into account these. people were ruinously drunk this night. they were as drunk as you can be and. still be standing up and talking that. drunk so that's why they were doing.

things like yelling about careers and. smashing wine bottles on the table and. all sorts of other things that will come. up but the line throughout was that. Natalie Wood went to bed Christopher. Walkin and Robert Wagner eventually. parted ways Robert walk Robert um Robert. Wagner I think went out to the bridge or. outside Christopher Walkin went to bed. and it wasn't for another hour or so. that they noticed that Natalie Wood was. gone and so is the ding. that's right uh Natalie Wood's lawyer.

said after uh her death that she often. took the dinghy out alone uh Robert. Wagner apparently as far as this initial. Story Goes wasn't super worried because. this is something that they say she was. known to do uh but like you said she was. not a strong swimmer and there's an. interview that has been played time and. time again throughout all of this sort. of trying to piece together what. happened where not too long before her. death where she said I'm frightened to. death of the water I can swim a little. bit but I'm afraid of the water uh I'm. afraid of the water in the dark of water.

that is dark so immediately there's a. suspicion of like why in the world would. she have uh gone out there in this. dinghy like sure she had had some drinks. and was maybe drunk uh Robert Wagner and. that autobiography said well that's. exactly the point uh she went out there. and um realized that oh wait I am too. drunk I'm not a great swimmer I'm scared. of the water at night and uh they didn't. hear the engine start up so it again it. was just an accident uh that happened or.

or maybe she even you know couldn't get. to sleep cuz this dinghy wasn't secured. and it was banging against you know the. The State Room uh near near The State. Room so she got out to do that to like. tie it up better and then slipped in. right yeah because when people are like. why would she go out into the dinghy if. she was afraid of water she didn't know. how to drive the dinghy and she was. wearing a night gown he's like oh well. probably it was banging and making noise. she was just trying to retie it those. were the two. that was his first one people question. it that was his second one the thing is.

is throughout this all the um other. Witnesses supported what he was saying. including Christopher Walkin apparently. the last time he talked about it was in. 1997 in a Playboy magazine interview um. where he said that she slipped and fell. in the water uh and then one of the. things that has never changed over the. entire life of this story uh is that. Christopher Walkin was in bed when all. of this happened asleep no one's ever. Chang that that that little nugget yeah.

he has not talked about it much over the. years no but when he has he supported. Robert Wagner's version yeah but he he. didn't write biographies and go into. detail or anything like that he's there. are a couple of random interviews where. he talks about it but otherwise he is is. like just basically stay Mama exactly I. mean talk about like a terrible weekend. on the boat as a guest you know yeah. absolutely. so right off the bat there are are uh. people that are like this sounds pretty.

fishy uh in 1992 it was like 9 years. later Entertainment Weekly uh had a. story you know they you know journalists. kept following up over the years. basically it's like what's up with this. story like it's not adding up uh there. are certain things that just don't make. any sense different uh people came out. over the years that supposedly heard. things uh that was in the Entertainment. Weekly story there was a boat nearby the. Capricorn uh with John Payne and Marilyn. Wayne on board and they supposedly heard. heard a woman yelling for help uh in the.

direction of the Splender for 15 minutes. yeah and that cashner Vanity Fair. article um they said that you know they. thought it could have just been people. goofing off like everyone's out there. getting drunk and and being loud. probably and it was hard to tell if it. was real like worried you know in panic. screaming or people just having a good. time uh but the last thing they said was. they claim uh that they heard a man's. slurred voice saying okay honey will get. you yeah the thing is is the cops never.

interviewed Wayne and Payne um they just. were disincluded I guess and as you'll. see like this this first investigation. wrapped up pretty quick um so it's not. surprising that they weren't interviewed. but it is egregious they weren't there's. one other thing that Marilyn Wayne said. she said 3 days after um Natalie Wood's. death she received a little message in. scribbled handwriting saying if you. value your life keep quiet about what.

you know which is not just a threat it. also is a very desperate act from a. guilty conscience if you do something. like that you are really worried about. things because that's a really um. overextension of your yourself in that. case just FYI I guess yeah and if you. picture Christopher walking saying it. it's bone chilling let's hear it no. there's there's no way that's too far. how about Samy Davis Jr doing.

it that'd be kind of fun actually yeah. if you value your life bab keep quiet. about what you know man very nice so. that's like I mean that's bombshell. stuff but because it wasn't included in. the police investigation it's treated as. conjecture rumor maybe Marilyn Wayne is. trying to get her 15 minutes of fame. from what I could tell she was not like. that at all she did didn't seem to be. prone to confabulation she seemed like a.

reliable witness um she just wasn't she. wasn't included in the original. investigation but she was included in. subsequent journalism and books on the. subject that's right um from the. beginning uh Lana wood was someone who. has sort of beat the drum of hey let's. get this investigation going again I'm. not buying all this stuff um one of the. the biggest reasons why is because. Dennis stavern that ship captain that. yacht Captain um his story really.

changed uh at first he went along with. that official narrative like you were. saying like all three men did but later. on uh and some of these were paid. appearances we should point out uh he. said I was lying about some stuff in. 1981 uh in that Casher book in 2000 he. said this whole trip was not great uh in. fact she didn't even spend the night on. the boat uh the day before she stayed on. Shore because there was so much kind of. unpleasantness and fighting going on and. it stemmed from jealousy like he didn't.

like you know this was her co-star in. her new movie that she was in and he. thought that they were flirting too much. and that uh there might be something. going on and he was getting too much. attention Christopher Walkin and I. didn't say the stuff back then yeah he. said that um I think on the Today's Show. they said was so what were you you know. what did you tell the police and he said. I I I told them the story that RJ came. up up with yeah so if you there's.

another thing too Dennis DAV has over. the years been very much accused of. being like a publicity Hound trying he's. after the money or the what the. attention whatever he did write a book. but if you start to dig into him too and. you watch some interviews with him he he. genuinely seems uncomfortable he doesn't. seem like he's seeking the Limelight he. does. seem I mean at least at first glance a a. person with a guilty conscience that's. trying to come clean and then more most. importantly I think he doesn't paint.

himself in like this this Angelic light. like he lied to police he went along. with a conspiracy to cover up a murder. potentially like he's he's he's. admitting his own his own um culpability. while he's you know revealing the truth. he's not trying to keep himself out of. it that's a good point yeah that's a. very good point um he also said uh in. this cashner book um the the yacht. Captain said after we got back from. dinner on the 28th uh they they were. drunk they kept drinking uh and Wagner.

was again still upset because you know. they were sort of giggling together. Natalie Wood and Chris Walkin were uh. that's when the wine got uh bottle got. smashed and he yelled what are you. trying to do F my wife yeah uh that's. when supposedly according to Davern wood. went to her room and Walkin went to his. room cuz that's a party Foul to smash. your wine bottle on the table and say. that to your guest yeah it's a big party.

Foul like the part's over at that point. exactly they went to their separate. rooms uh after a little while according. to Davern uh Robert Wagner went to. Natalie Woods you know to their room and. he heard them uh quote fighting like. crazy things being thrown around uh then. he said he heard the dinghy being untied. and uh in The Fad book that just came. out a few years ago apparently the last. words that Dennis davn heard Wagner say. were GI get off my effing boat a lot of. FWS from that guy that night yeah that's.

not heart tohe heart so one other. account that he gave of it was that. there was this scuffle a lot of physical. sounds of fighting not just from the. state room but now outside on the deck. of the boat yeah in earshot but out of. eye eyesight um and he hears get off my. effing boat a little more of a scuffle. and then. silence that's eerie but it doesn't J. with Marilyn Wayne's um ear witness.

account which was that she heard. somebody calling for help for 15 minutes. it's possible that dav's telling what. his an accurate um he's portraying the. story accurately and that Marilyn Wayne. really did hear somebody else goofing. around who knows but those two it's. important that those two accounts. earwitness accounts don't don't line up. necessarily so around 11:30 uh according. to Davern uh Wagner came came back to. the bridge uh was uh disheveled looking.

apparently and they got drunk together. uh apparently on more than Wine right. yeah I think they moved to. Scotch so at 1:30 in the morning uh. Davon says that Wagner said he was going. to go check on her and her room uh came. back and said she was gone that's when. they noticed the dinghy was gone and he. was like I got to turn on these lights. and start looking uh according to DAV. and Wagner said don't do that uh don't. turn on the engine don't do anything. because we don't want to alert all these. people it's a very weird thing to say if.

your wife is missing off of a boat very. weird even if you're ruinously drunk. that is a weird thing to say because. also take into account Dennis Davin is. ruinously drunk at this time too and his. first instinct is to turn on the flood. lights and start looking around the boat. yeah so um Devon said that uh this is. this is all new he's he's admitting that. he lied to the police at the time he was. interviewed twice by the police on the. morning of at the boat and then a few. days later in the presence of two of.

Robert Wagner's lawyers and this is not. what he told the police this is all very. new and scandalous stuff that he's. basically pointing the finger at Robert. Wagner without coming out and saying it. overtly and he's saying that he lied to. the police because he had a really. unusual experience at the time he was. fairly young I think he was in his 20s. at the time uh he was just some boat. dude who they'd hired to be their. captain and it become friends as close. of friends as you can be with somebody.

you employ or who employs you right um. but he kind of took them to be friends. and so right after Natalie Wood died he. essentially moved in with Robert Wagner. Robert Wagner moved him into his house. in Beverly Hills for a few weeks and. later on Dennis davron said it was akin. to a hostage situation yeah like. according to DB I was like let me get. this guy in here uh and just let's keep. him drunk and get drunk and you know. they're also you know drowning their.

sorrows and uh I imagine deeply uh upset. and but he yeah like you said he felt. like he was uh not allowed to leave. almost yeah well supposedly one of his. girlfriends showed up to speak to him. and was turned away at the door there. wasn't a phone in the bedroom that he. had and at night when they turned on the. security system he couldn't leave the. bedroom or else it would set the. security system off so it's not like. anybody was like you stay here but he. like you said he didn't feel like he. could leave it's a very weird thing to.

say but that is his explanation for why. he didn't say this and why he lied to. police at first that's right uh I think. now a break yes yeah let's do it man all. right we'll take a break and we'll be. right back to talk about what's happened. since. [Music]. [Laughter]. [Music]. then.

[Music]. all right uh we mentioned earlier that. Davon wrote a book uh it is called. goodbye Natalie goodbye. Splender uh that was in 2009 in November. of 2011 the LA Sheriff's Department um. reopen the investigation and I remember. this is very big news uh saying we have.

some new information from some unnamed. sources uh L like I mentioned uh Lana. had been beating the drum to kind of get. this thing reopened for years uh a. publicist uh for the Wagner family said. you know this is these are people trying. to get their 15 minutes they're trying. to profit on the 30 year anniversary of. the death uh it's they didn't. specifically mention dav's book but davn. for his part was like man my book's out. of print at this point and like no one's.

trying to sell a book here well he also. supposedly turned down a $50,000 offer. from a tabloid to tell the story again. he he didn't do it so um yeah he was. apparently not out for the money exactly. well you know these are all accounts of. people so the this we can just report it. right yes yes I I I'm glad you said that. because I don't want to give the. impression that I'm like in Dennis. davern's corner I'm just trying to give. the full picture I'm not trying to push. him on anybody as a reliable person. that's not what I mean to be doing so.

I'm glad you said that yeah so um. officials said that uh Wagner and Walkin. like they're not suspects right now in. 2011 uh Walkin laed up immediately. though which is interesting and here's. the the rub at this point the statute of. limitations had run out for anything but. murder um so they couldn't you know go. after him for assault or anything like. that unless it was assault with intent. to murder her and they were like we.

don't have a case for that we don't have. new physical evidence uh this story has. changed Davern has admitted to lying so. like unless we have some Ironclad sort. of uh you know figurative Smoking Gun we. can't go after Robert Wagner for you. know for murdering natal wood right but. at the same time Robert Wagner doesn't. want this talked about any long because. whether he did it or not it's his name.

invariably is dragged through the mud. now anytime the story comes up in the. Press especially now that the sheriff's. department has reopened the case so it. couldn't have been very comfortable for. him uh Dennis Davern did the rounds he. was on today's show um he was asked. directly about lying to the police and. admitted that he had um and apparently. other people came forward too something. like a hundred different people. contacted the uh Sher sheriff's. department in Los Angeles and one of the. people that the detectives talk to one.

of the lead investigators was named. Ralph Hernandez he was put together with. a confidential source of uh finstad the. biographer who had done like like years. of research on this um and apparently. Hernandez found the the the person. credible enough that this kind of became. an extra part of the case which was that. um this person had heard Walkin say that. um Wagner and wood had been fighting and. that um Wagner pushed wood didn't say.

pushed him over pushed her overboard. killed her nothing like that but it's. enough that like it it breaks or it um. veers away from Walkins like solid line. throughout the whole time which is that. he was in bed it was an accident yeah. and other people came forward just sort. of uh verifying that there was like. yelling crashing around people on the. boat arguing um I I you know I I think. it's basically agreed on at this point.

that everyone you know it was loud there. was arguing and there was fighting right. I don't think anyone I mean even from. the beginning it was just like yeah. we're arguing about politics but it that. changed pretty quickly too uh because. there were so many ear Witnesses. basically yeah but it's important to. point out though Chuck is Wagner has. never acknowledged that he fought with. wood it was always a argument really. between him and Walkin. maybe as far as it was about Wood's. career but he's never said he was in an.

argument directly with wood and. especially that he didn't have any like. throwing stuff around the room fight. with Natalie Wood so that's important to. remember too he's his explanation is way. back in the rear view now as far as. we've gone with all this this these. different. explanations yeah absolutely so uh. summer of 2012 uh the cause of death was. formally changed to. undetermined and uh drowning and other. undetermined factors uh was the.

description of the accidental. drowning um the LA County coroner said. you know we we have to explain this to. the family um there's been a new. analysis of these. bruises uh you know they're they're some. of them indicate that they were you know. before she drowned like they were from a. fight there were bruises on her wrist uh. that just assault happened and like they. had to tell their family this yeah also.

there was another person named Vidal. Herrera who uh took photos of Natalie. Wood's Body for the coroner's office um. and he said that he saw significant. wounds on her head um that were bad. enough that she might have been. unconscious before she even hit the. water from the head wounds right that's. a new piece of information um there was. another new piece of information that. came forward in 2020 who was someone. else that worked at at the coroner's. office named Michael Franco right yeah. so and then again this is from finstad's.

book uh Franco said that uh these. friction Burns and. striations uh from the wrist and on her. body were in the opposite direction or. what you would think you would get as. she's trying to climb onto a boat uh and. there was bruising on her thighs. bruising on her shins and to me not. Chuck to Franco right uh said to me it. looked like you know it was someone who. had been you know pushed and was in a. physical altercation with another human.

yeah and back in the day in 1982 when he. was an intern at the coroner's office he. went to Chief examiner Thomas nuchi and. said all this stuff to him and nuchi. apparently told Michael Franco that some. things are better left unsaid and that. however it was written up that's all you. need to know which is very weird thing. for a chief medical examiner to say. because they're the ones who are. responsible for determining cause of. death yeah yeah absolutely uh where we. stand today uh as of about a year and a.

half ago in May 2022 uh the sheriff's. department has uh ended the. investigation but it remains a quote. open unsolved case M uh you know it's. it's become a thing that has divided. this family because on one side you have. Lana um sort of beating the drum to keep. this thing going and very suspicious of. of Robert Wagner and then you have the. all the daughters have remained. steadfast behind their dad yeah and they. were like he loved her very very much.

things may have been volatile but uh he. did not kill her although Lana also says. like I don't think he was had some. murderous intent I think they were drunk. and things got out of hand right and he. flew into a moment of rage that ended in. her death yeah uh which is a different. accusation then uh you know he was some. abusive husband and this was bound to. happen or something right exactly so she. said this in a 2021 Memoir um that you. mentioned before it's called Little.

Sister colon my investigation into the. mysterious death of Natalie Wood and she. says that Robert Wagner told her that. after the funeral she's like what. happened and and Robert Wagner told her. Natalie Wood's sister that Natalie had. probably taken the dinghy out to party. hop and again she didn't know how to use. the dinghy she was afraid of the water. especially in the dark and she was. wearing a night gown and socks and a. coat and that was it so that didn't hold. water I think that really kind of. triggered Lana Wood's um decades long. suspicion of this whole thing so yeah.

like you said the family's been divided. uh basically ever since and the the. whole thing is still it's an open case. it's unsolved but uh they've exhausted. all the leads that came out of the 2011. reexamination of it so it's essentially. back on the shelf for now yeah pretty. nuts man it is it's a story that I think. we will never know truly what happened I. I uh Wagner's in his 90s unless there's. some sort of deathbed confession from he.

or Chris Walkin like uh it's going to go. to their graves I would imagine I don't. know man because think about it after. Kirk Douglas died Lana would named him. as the as her sister's rapist when she. was 16 so I'm wondering if one of these. people are going to say here finally is. the evidence yes Robert Wagner totally. killed Natalie Wood and now that he's. dead I feel comfortable explaining how. who knows I think it's a possibility but. it would have to be a recording of him. saying that otherwise it would just be.

another person saying well he told me. sure sure you know what I mean like the. only three people that know what. happened are Davern wkan and Wagner. right and all Walkin wants to do is. focus on. cowbell and dance I would say probably. the most important clue out of this. whole thing though Chuck is that Robert. Wagner and Dennis Davon switched to. scotch on the bridge. is that the one yeah that's a that's a. power drinking move late at night for.

sure I've seen it happen do you uh you. have anything else I got nothing else. it's just tragic story uh that's thing. to remember yeah you know it was uh it's. easy to get caught up in the this. Hollywood mystery but there was a real. human with a family that died and uh I. hope people don't forget that and I hope. we were respectful yeah I think we were. that's a rule of thumb for all True. Crime stuff you know absolutely uh well. since Chuck said absolutely I'm going to. end on a high note for me and um we'll.

go to listener. me uh hey guys this is one from a long. time ago actually that I forgot to read. from Gareth uh I was listening to the. Diaries episode and thought you guys. might like to hear about ingratitude. lists cuz we were talking about. gratitude lists M uh when I was working. in mental health support we learned. about them and the basic premise is. sometimes your life is full of problems. and you feel terrible it's not uh always. that helpful to be told to write down. what you feel grateful for mhm and some.

people find it a bit like their problems. aren't being taken seriously or being. brushed under the rug so uh sometimes it. can actually be helpful to write down. everything that's wrong everything. that's hurting you or generally just. ticking you off as a way to vent and. hopefully understand why you feel uh how. why you feel how you feel and possibly. being able to process it and make a plan. on how to change it nice yeah uh anyway. I thought it could be of interest to you. and potentially helpful some listeners. who have a lot going on uh to feel. Vindicated in their distress uh and just.

to be clear it's not about dwelling on. the bad it's mostly about just being. able to say yeah fair play me I'm. dealing with a lot nice that's really. awesome and that is from again Gareth. thanks a lot Gareth I would say Gareth. is sitting in the best recent email. chair for now huh yeah that's a good one. yeah that was a very good one thanks for. letting everybody know about that cuz. I'm sure there are some people out there. that listen to that diar's episode and. thought the very same thing and now. they're Vindicated rather than dismissed.

if you want to be like Gareth and try. your shot at being in the best recent. email chair you can do that send it off. to stuff podcast iheartradio.com. stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart radio for more podcasts iHeart. Radio visit the iHeart Radio app Apple. podcasts or wherever you listen to your. favorite. shows.