The Texas Chain Saw Massacre: Masterpiece | STUFF YOU SHOULD KNOW

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a. production [music] of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. [music]. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's. here, too. And this is our episode right. before our Halloween episode. You're in. stuff you should know. >> Yeah. Big uh COA here, obviously. Yeah, I mean hopefully parents aren't.

going to click on this if their young. children are in the car because it'll. probably be uh Texas Chainsaw Mask or. something or other in the title. >> Yeah. It's not going to be like um how. uh ponies work, >> right? >> I don't want to trick anybody. >> Yeah. So, uh COA about that. Obviously, it's going to have some pretty gruesome. material in it. Um but also, uh because. we're going to be talking a lot about. this movie and we're going to go over. the plot and everything. So, if it if. it's kind of a spoiler situation where. you don't want to hear about it and you. haven't seen it somehow, then uh tune.

out. But some people like to know what. happens before they go into a horror. movie, you know. >> Yes. But that's a great that's a great. uh spoiler alert. If you haven't seen. it, go watch it. It like people use the. word masterpiece. >> about this movie a lot. and like not. just fans of the film like sickos like. critics like academics who teach film. appreciation. Um like it is a really. really good movie um whether you like.

horror movies or not because the key to. this is if you if you get scared at. horror movies. >> approach it like it's a dark comedy and. it will make sense to you as a dark. comedy and you will probably laugh out. loud in a couple of parts. So it can be. taken both ways and sometimes in some. parts at the this both ways at the same. time. >> Yeah. See that I've never understood. that take because I don't see any dark. comedy that notions about it whatsoever.

I think it's I think it's one of the. most terrifying movies I've ever seen if. not the most terrifying. >> Wow. You and Rex Reed feel the same way. >> Yeah. every time I see it and I just saw. it for the first time a few years ago. finally and uh it's just it's it's so. disturbing and unsettling every single. time even though I know it's coming. >> I watched it again last night and. [clears throat] and yeah, so when it. finished when it cuts at the end and. goes to the credits, I literally said. out loud that is a great movie and Yumi.

was I was sitting there by myself. watching it and I said it out loud. It. just took it out of me. Um, and I had. never watched it as a comedy before. either. I'd never even turned up that. anybody considered it a comedy or dark. comedy, but going into it knowing that I. definitely found some spots here or. there. >> Yeah, I didn't. Uh, do you know what I. said at the end last night out loud by. myself? >> What? >> Jerry's going to have to beep it, but it. it has that famous just abrupt ending. and cut to black. >> Yeah. And I was curled up on my couch.

and I just said. this movie. [laughter]. Like every time it gets me in a place. where I'm just like like if there was a. camera on my face while I'm watching it, it's just my face is just gnarled up the. whole time. Like oh my god, it's just so. disturbing. >> I think me and a lot of people would. love to watch a reaction video of you. watching that Yeah. Texas Chainsaw. Massacre. >> A camera trained in my face for 83. minutes. >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it is just 83. minutes. It's not even an hour and a.

half of your time, you know, like you. just watch it, breeze through it, and. say, "That was a great movie." Or what. you said at the end. And let me ask you. this. Can you think of another horror. movie that makes you feel like that. whenever you watch it? >> Yeah. I mean, >> there's quite a few movies that are. still disturbing to me, but this one. takes the cake for sure. >> Wow. So yeah, if you haven't seen Texas. Chainsaw Massacre and you have uh any. kind of curiosity, I strongly urge you.

to pause this and go watch it and come. back, whatever. It doesn't matter. I. think you can still appreciate this. episode, don't you? Because it's not. just about um the movie itself. It's. about how it was made because it was an. independent picture. It's one of the. most successful independent films of all. time. Yeah. And it was made by students. of film, literal students of film who. loved making movies and they made again. a masterpiece is what a lot of people. call it. >> Yeah. And we're going to get to the plot.

and go through that uh as we said, but. even I just want to say even the. beginning, that first 30 minutes before. they even set foot inside the bad house. >> Mhm. >> Uh that's all just the way it's shot and. laid out and the sound, it's just all. disturbs. disturbs me to no end. >> I know. And to think like that it was. shot by a 23 year old. >> I know. >> So, let's talk about this. Um, let's. let's get into the uh nuts and bolts of. how the whole thing came about. How. about that? >> Yeah. Uh, and we can only start with.

director Toby Hooper, who apparently was. inspired by a few different things to. come up with this movie. >> Uh, one, um, pretty obviously is Ed Gyn, who's a serial killer, who we have not. covered yet. But at some point we'll. probably get into the uh skin suit. making crimes of Edgy, right? >> We did an episode on him. >> I think it's Gene, isn't it? We did a. whole episode. >> We did a whole episode on Mr. Geen. The. >> I didn't think we did. >> Uh we did. It wasn't the best, so I'm I.

can see how you wouldn't remember it. >> Oh, I thought we just put him in. something else. Okay, well, scratch that. then. >> Yeah, he appeared in some episode, but. we ended up making a whole episode about. him. >> I see it now. Ed Gene, the serial. killer. Serial killer. >> Yes, >> that had to be your title. That's good. >> Yeah, I think it was. But Ed Gene, he wasn't just the. inspiration for Leatherface from Texas. Chainsaw Massacre. And the reason why. is, if you're not familiar with Edge. Gene, he um wore skin suits. He was also. the influence for the character Buffalo.

Bill and Silence of the Lambs. >> And he inspired the movie Psycho. Not. like Norman Bates bears any resemblance. to him whatsoever, aside from the whole. >> crossdressing thing, I guess, is what. inspired it. But more the fact that. there was someone out there who was. capable of doing these things inspired a. movie that about Norman Bates who's. capable of doing horrible things too. >> Yeah. So that was the first thing. Uh. the second thing was he had a friend. Toby Hooper did the director uh who was. a doctor or I guess a med student at the.

time. >> uh who said that he had removed the face. of a cadaavver and wore it as a. Halloween mask. So there's one for your. nightmares. >> Yeah. Even if he hadn't done that, to be. telling people that you had done that. and be serious about it, that's pretty. nuts. >> Yeah. Uh and then the last thing was. Toby Hooper was apparently Christmas. shopping at a Montgomery Ward uh store. one time and it was just really really. crowded and he was I get the sense that. he was having a bit of a a panicky.

moment trying to get out of there and. saw some chainsaws on display and was. like that'd be great if I could grab one. of those and just cut cut my way out of. here. >> Yeah. Exactly. So he put all those. things together. They came together end. of 1972, beginning of 1973. into this story that he that just kind. of clicked in his head. I also saw that. Hansel and Gretle formed some like loose. influence on the whole thing, too. >> Sure. >> But he got together with a friend of his. named Kim Hankle, and he and Hankle um.

wrote the script together. They met at. um Toby Hooper's house. They would map. out the story arc on the floor and then. Kim Hankle would go in and type some. pages and come back after a few and read. it all to Toby Hooper and get a thumbs. up or down and then they'd continue on. And they wrote the script fairly. quickly. Um, from what I understand, they had some working titles for it that. fortunately they did not go with. >> Yeah. And you know, one of the reasons. it went quickly is because after that.

first half hour, there's not a lot of. dialogue. Um, aside from like, you know, Pam, Pam, and then Sally, >> Sally, Sally, uh, and then the dinner. scene, you're going to get some more. But there's there long stretches where. it's just, you know, a lot of action. But, um, yeah, you mentioned the. alternate titles. Head Cheese was one, uh, which does make an appearance in the. movie. >> Um, and the dinner scene, I believe, and. then Leatherface was one of the titles.

that would go on to be the title of the. 2017 prequel. >> Yeah, >> I think it was just called Leatherface, which I haven't seen any of those, by. the way. >> Neither have I. I've only seen the first. one and I saw the second one. >> I didn't see I don't think I care to see. any of the rest of them. >> Yeah. I mean, if you're into the first. one, it might not make sense to see the. second one because it's such a. departure. But yeah, >> it's still if you take that as an actual. comedy, which it is, um it it's it's. kind of fun on its own. Well, >> I might see that one, but I definitely.

am not interested in it. the prequels. and the reboots and the remakes and. stuff like that. >> Well, so like A24 just announced last. month that they're rebooting Texas. Chainsaw Massacre. Would you see those? >> Well, they they're almost across the. finish line. Apparently, they're in the. pole position to win the bid as of like. a couple of weeks ago. >> Oh, okay. >> Uh you'd be interested to know that one. of the other biders was Oz Perkins and. some other people. >> Oh, yeah. >> Your guy. Uh, and then, uh, Taylor.

Sheridan oddly put in a bid on the film. and TV rights, but it looks like A24 is. in the poll position and they're talking. about a TV series. So, I would I would. watch that. >> I Okay. I would too for sure. >> Yeah. >> So, they came up with the script uh, and. it was they never actually came up with. the title themselves. There was a guy. named Warren Scarren who came up with. the title Texas Chainsaw Massacre. One. of the great titles of all time. >> Oh, yeah. >> Uh, and it's four words. if you want to. be pedantic about it, chainsaw, they.

have it as two words for some reason. Um, and uh, Warren Scarren would play a. bunch of really important roles over the. course of getting this movie made. And. he was in a position to because he was. Texas's first film commissioner. Uh, he. also apparently was an investor in the. film, too. and he was uh a friend of a. mutual friend between him and Kim. Hankle, who would go on to become the. production manager for the movie Ron. Boseman. And Scaren also scared up the. first investor who was a former Texas.

legislator, state legislator named Bill. Parsley, who also apparently fancied. himself a a movie producer. >> Yeah. And uh technically it's five words. if you count the word the because the. first one was the Texas Chainsaw. Massacre. So, you outpedantic my own. pedanticness. >> Well, because I knew we'd hear from. somebody. >> Okay. >> Uh, so, uh, who was the last person you. named? Ron Boseman. >> Bill Parsley. >> Or Bill Parsley. Yeah. So, >> he, uh, you know, they came up with a.

few different, um, budgets. The first. one, you know, it was like, hey, what. can we get? What can we make it for? And. what could we really make it for if we. just, you know, kind of didn't have much. and still had to do it. And that was 60. grand. >> was like, "Hey, that'd be awesome. It's. about 388 grand today." Uh 40 grand was. the mid level and 20 grand was the the. small budget that they still thought. they could make it with. Uh even though. it would have to be black and white. Um. I could see this in black and white,

like a Night of the Living Dead, but. there are so many great color shots. >> in this movie, like those green eyes. >> uh of Sally that are so key in the in. the third act and uh the sunrise shot at. the end. you know, you'd lose all that. >> Um, oh, speaking of third act, I watched. 30 Days of Night again, that that um. vampire movie. Have you ever seen it. with Josh Hartnett? >> Uh, I don't think I saw that one. >> It's not bad, but I thought of you. because they show like this metal. crushing like trash compactor in the.

first like 10 minutes and I thought, >> show a show a metal crushing trash. compactor in act one, you're going to. use it in act three. And sure enough, they did. Yeah, it's classic classic. move. >> Um, so they actually got their um high. their pie in the sky high-end budget of. 60 grand. Most of it came from Bill. Parsley, but there were a couple of. other investors that got cobbled. together. And ultimately, by the time. the thing had its final cut, it was up. to 300 grand. But even that was a.

poultry amount of money cons even in the. mid70s. Like this is peanuts as far as. making a movie is concerned. >> Yeah. I mean, not too bad. I'll take. issue with peanuts. Um I mean, Rocky was. made for 1.1 million and the average was. 4 million. >> even back then, but. >> uh I guess I've known friends who have. made movies these days for a lot less. than that. So, it's uh I know people. that would be very happy with 300 grand. >> Yeah. But they're not using film stock,

and I'll bet that eats up a ton of. budget. >> Uh yeah. >> Well, how about this? Can we agree on. Brazil nuts? [laughter]. >> Brazil nuts sounds good. >> Okay. So, one of the ways that they cut. cost, Chuck, was to hire no-name actors, like inexperienced actors, and. ultimately the way it would wash out. that would make the whole thing that. much more realistic, which is great. Um, these were people who might have been. drama students, um, taking film classes. at UT Austin. Some of them were just. Austin locals. And the other way that.

they cut costs was to get these casts of. or this cast of no-name actors um who. were already being paid Brazil nuts at. best peanuts probably maybe even just. the pee part of Peanuts. >> Yeah. >> To defer even that amount most of it. until after the film got made. And they. agreed to it and they put together um a. cast of 10 plus a few extras. And the. only one who had any experience. whatsoever was a guy named Jim Cidau.

Sidow or Sidow? >> Yeah, he played uh the the cook uh and. one of the three brothers in the Sawyer. family. Uh Marilyn Burns to Sally. She. had also been in a couple of things. She. was in Robert Alman's Brewster Mloud and. uh she was actually cast as a lead in a. movie in a movie called Love and Molly. Um that would have been [clears throat]. before this, but she was replaced by. Susan Sandon. >> Yeah. and she ended up being the body. double for Sandon in that one. I think.

>> it was a bitter pill, I'm sure. >> For sure. Um, so Jim Sidal was he was. his experience was a radio soap opera. actor. So that was the experience he. had. And from what I could tell, he was. the only SAG member. And then there's a. um a nononscreen I guess offscreen is. how you would put it if you have brains. >> Yeah. >> Um appearance by a guy named John. Larette. Yeah. If you're a Nightcourt. fan, and even if you're not, you're. probably still familiar with John. Larette. >> Yeah, I didn't know this was John.

Larette. My first two viewings of this, I had no idea until you sent this along. So, I don't know. I guess I didn't stay. through the credits because I was. always, you know, >> cowering in a corner or something. >> Turn it off. Turn it off. >> Yeah. Did not know that was John Loat. That was the the first thing he ever did. in the film business. >> Yeah. I I didn't know that either. I ran. across it. I also ran across that he was. friends with Toby Hooper and he did it. as a favor. Apparently it took an hour. of his time to record it and um Toby.

Hooper paid him in pot and John Lerette. apparently confirmed that to none other. than Parade magazine years later. >> I love it. >> So you want to talk about the plot and. then get into how they made this thing. after that? >> Uh yeah. Should we take a break first or. should we do the plot first? >> No, that's a good idea. Let's do a. break. >> All right. Well, everyone brace. yourselves. Go, you know, chill out, do. some yoga, maybe meditate, and then. we'll tell you the plot of Texas. Chainsaw Massacre right after this. [music].

>> Chuck and Josh, [music] stuff. you. should know. [music]. >> [music]. [music]. >> Yeah,

[music]. [music]. satisfaction. >> Okay, so we're back and we're talking. about the plot. And again, you already. gave a spoiler alert, but it's worth. saying again. If you haven't seen the. movie and you want to go in fresh, don't. listen to this part. Okay. >> Yeah. >> And maybe we'll shout we're done with. the plot after we're done with it so. that everybody can put their headphones. back on.

>> Yeah. I think we maybe we should read. that uh narration since it's so short. Oh, >> okay. Go ahead. Yeah, because that gets. the point across. So, it's it's uh sort. of framed as a docu drama. Um shot a lot. in a lot of moments very documentary. style. Uh and they set it up as if it's. a real thing. So, here's John Larquette. Well, me as John Larette. Uh the film. which you are about to see is an account. of the tragedy which befell a group of. five youths in particular Sally Hardesty. and her invalid brother Franklin. It is.

all the more tragic in that they were. young, but had they lived very, very. long lives, they could not have. expected, nor would they have wished to. see as much mad and macob as they were. to see that day. For them, an idilic. summer afternoon drive became a. nightmare. The events of that day were. to lead to the discovery of one of the. most bizarre crimes in the annals of. American history, the Texas Chainsaw. Massacre. >> Pretty great. That was a good John. Larat, too, by the way. >> Thanks. And it indicates that they all.

die too, which was a nice little slight. of hand because it makes the ending a. little more surprising and suspenseful, I think. >> Exactly. And so you said it like this is. presented as a docu drama, so people are. going into it not thinking it's a. documentary or that they're actually. seeing real things, but that it's. depicting an actual event that happened. uh specifically on October 18th, 1973. It says that's the date that this all. happens. It just happens over a one-day. period. Um, so that in and of itself kind of is.

was totally new as we'll see as far as. horror movies went. Um, it was almost. prefiguring the found footage genre like. Blair Witch and stuff like that. >> And then the the whole action starts, everything's prompted by news that a. cemetery in the middle of rural Texas, central Texas, uh, has there have been. grave robbings going on. And not only. grave robbings, um, where they're just. removing specific parts of bodies, um, they're also taking some of the bodies. and basically making them into these.

really gruesome statues. >> Yeah. And it's a great way to open the. movie, the opening shot and everything. It's just very disturbing to kind of get. that ball rolling. Uh, and they are in a. van traveling. Um, they have space. cleared out for the wheelchair for uh, Franklin. And uh you know it's like a it. sort of set the standard but we've seen. this so many times since then like. teenagers off you know having a good. time going on a trip maybe going camping. or something like that. Uh but they were.

sort of the first you know movie to do. that kind of thing. It it set that. standard. >> Yeah. And they were the reason they were. there was their uh Franklin and Sally's. grandfather was buried at the cemetery. So they're going to check to see if his. grave had been dug up and they find that. it's not. But while they're there, they. say, "Hey, why don't we go check out. grandfather's old homestead? Uh, we used. to spend summers there once in a while.". So, the whole gang agrees to do that. But first, they need gas. And they go to. a gas station, a rundown gas.

station/barbcue. pit, uh, that's owned by a man known as. the cook, who also would turn out to be. Drayton Sawyer, like who you mentioned. before, one of the three brothers of. this scary family. Um, and it turns out. they don't have any gas, which I've read. was a big commentary on the gas. shortages going on at the time. Uh, but the kids decide to to head on to. the um what it turns out to be the. abandoned uh Hardesty Homestead. Anyway, just look around. >> Yeah. Did you catch the name of the gas.

station? >> Uh, yeah. We Slaughter Barbecue. >> Well, that was the restaurant. It was uh. the last ch last chance gas. >> I did see that. Yes. I I totally forgot. So, I immediately thought of my uh last. chance garage hat that I wore for many, many years. >> Do you still have that thing? >> I have like four or five of them because. I lost the original one in Austin, Texas. >> Oh, wow. >> And uh at Southby one year and then I. got a patch maker here in Atlanta to. make me patches and so I made like three.

or four of them, but I just haven't worn. those in a long time. >> I I remember that very kind patch maker. replacing it. Um, and since you lost it. in Austin, I'm now convinced that there. is no way it wasn't a Texas Chainsaw. Massacre fan who stole that. >> Yeah. I mean, those Last Chance Garage, which was his own brand, but I thought. Last Chance Gas was kind of fun. >> I now that I think about it, I've seen. on Etsy vials of um skin scrapings that. say that your they're your skin. [laughter] scrapings. So, I wonder if it. came from that hat.

>> probably. So, if it's. >> It does ship out of Texas, it says. >> All right, there you have it. So anyway, this gas station's out of gas and they. head on to the abandoned house and just. start exploring it. But before they get. there, they pick up a hitchhiker and he. turns out to be one of the Sawyers, too. But he plays this character so nuts. >> Yeah. >> He dances right along the edge of this. is ridiculous. He's being ridiculous. It's totally over the top, >> but it still manages to be more. disturbing than than like come on, you.

know? >> Oh, yeah. It's again completely. unsettling. Um, his name, by the way, they do have names. His name is Nubbins. Sawyer. [laughter]. Uh, but he's kind of mainly known as the. Hitchhiker. >> Uh, and his very short ride is is just. full of disturbing things. He looks like. he's got, you know, blood on his face. He's, uh, kind of rambling incoherently. He takes out a. >> or he he I'm sorry, he grabs Franklin's, um, sort of whittling pocketk knife at. one point. >> and cuts his own hand in front of.

everyone's faces, which is terrifying, >> right? Uh, and then slashes Franklin, I. think, with his razor that he has in his. boot. >> Yeah. And he's real squirly, too. So, he's moving around a lot and he's like. just doing all sorts of weird stuff. But. once he slashes Frank, like they're. really put off by this guy. But once he. slashes Franklin, they don't even fully. stop. They just slow down and basically. push him out of the van. >> Yeah. >> And take off. So, they go to the Heart. of Sea Homestead. Um, Franklin tells. them that there's a swimming hole.

nearby. And this couple, Pam and Kirk, go off to find it. But they find that. it's um dried up. >> Yeah. >> And they're just kind of hanging out. And Kirk spies a house nearby and he. thinks, "Hey, maybe maybe they have some. gas that we can get cuz the van's. getting awfully low and they don't know. where another gas station is.". >> Yeah. So, they go to this house. Uh Kirk. is stupidly enters the house. He's kind. of knocking on the door and the door. just, you know, opens from him knocking. and he's the first to be killed and it.

happens in such a brutally fast way. >> when he goes down this straight hallway. into this, you know, it looks like. another hallway off the entryway where. they have uh animal skins and skulls and. things on the wall. And he gets clubbed. by a hammer very quickly. And the speed. at which that happens, the speed at. which you see Leatherface for the first. time, whose name is Bubba by the way. Uh, and then the ferocity and speed that. he slams shut that metal sliding door is.

just terrifying. [laughter]. >> It is. Yeah, that's a hell of a way for. the first person to get picked off to. go. For sure. It's very fast and and. just all of a sudden you're already. disturbed because everything before it. was so even Franklin like every word out. of his mouth is annoying and upsetting. >> Yeah, we should say Franklin among um. film appreciators and horror fans, he's. almost universally despised. >> Yeah. Poor Franklin. >> Yeah. Um so yeah, it is because I was um.

I went into it again thinking how much. everybody hates Franklin. And I was. like, he's not that bad. He's pretty. bad, but there's still there's some. redeeming qualities to him, but I don't. want to just be contrarian, you know. >> No, I'm with you. >> So, um Pam, who was with uh Kirk, but is. waiting outside on a swinging, um bench, uh starts deciding that Kirk's been gone. too long and goes in after him. She goes. in, there's this classic shot that's a.

dolly shot from the ground going upward. and it follows her uh going up to the. house and it's just this amazing shot. Like anybody who knows anything about. cinema is like this is one of the best. dolly shots of all time. Again, a. 23-year-old did this and the reason they. did it is because the house just grows. bigger and bigger, >> almost like it's going to swallow Pam. up. And I would never think about that. if I hadn't read someone describing it, but that's exactly what it does. >> Yeah, it's very creepy. It starts uh it.

goes under the swing, which was a nice. little trick. >> Mhm. >> Um her her backside is very prominently. in frame. So I think at the time that. was their version of selling something. slightly sexy. >> Sure. >> But it's so for boating and you get that. blue blue sky and the clouds and that up. angle shot of the house like you said. It's just it's a great great shot. >> It is. So Pam goes in there and her fate. is not met quite as quickly as Kirk. She. stumbles into this room where. >> chicken room. >> Yeah. There's a live chicken in a a bird.

cage meant for basically canary. So the. chicken's almost stuffed in there. >> Yeah. >> There's feathers everywhere. There's. bones everywhere, carcasses hanging. everywhere. Um the couches and the. chairs are all basically upholstered. with bones and these weird but kind of. in a strange way beautiful um designs. and you can just tell it's so nasty in. there that she starts to gag and tries. to get out and as she's trying to get. out she meets Leatherface and it just it.

goes downhill from there. >> Yeah. And this is equally as brutal. I. mean Leatherface is is I don't think we. said is like 6'4 and uh how much did he. weigh? 300 lb. >> Yeah. Very large dude. Sort of uh looks. like a professional wrestler, but he's. wearing a a skin mask with with other. hair, you know, that's not his. >> Yeah. Like a almost a curly wig. That. just that makes it so much worse, too. >> Yeah. So, everything he does is just, you know, brutal. I mean, clearly as the. movie goes on, we realize that he's has,

you know, some pretty severe cognitive. issues. Uh like I'm not going to. diagnose Bubba Leatherface. Sure. >> But at any rate, he's he's terrifying. and the way he moves is just very sort. of herkyjerky. And the way he he's so. big and the way he grabs her and brings. her into that room is just it's all. again, it's terrifying. >> Yeah. One of the other things that's. terrifying that also gets across the. fact that cognitively he seems to be. challenged at least to some degree, they. took away all of the dialogue that he. had written for him in the script.

>> So he doesn't do anything but make weird. sounds. >> Yeah. He kind of babbles at one point. later. He does. And then also, if you pay. attention, there's times where he's. clearly talking, but they dub in a a hog. squealing. >> Yeah. >> And it's not supposed to be him him. making a hog call. Like, it's just like. that's what came out of his mouth, weirdly. And it's it happens so fast and. they don't make any kind of point to. point it out that um when you notice it,

you're like, "What the heck just. happened?" But it makes him, especially. if you don't notice it, even even. creepier. I mean, the fact that he's. wearing a a mask made of a dead person's. face is bad enough, but all the extra. little details they put into it, the. apron that he's wearing, which clearly. demonstrates he's a butcher with that. chainsaw. Um, all of the details they. put together just make him one of the. great horror film villains of all time. >> Oh, yeah. and set the mold for uh the. sort of um nonverbal maskearing dudes to.

come like Michael Myers and certainly. Jason Vorhees. >> Mhm. For sure. So, what happens to Pam? >> Yeah, Pam gets uh meat hooked. immediately. She gets taken into this. butcher room uh impaled on a meat hook. but still living and gets to watch We. finally see the chainsaw fire up here. for the first time. uh we get to see her. boyfriend. uh you know get it it doesn't show it. and we'll talk about that later but you.

see the you know Leatherface fire that. thing up and kind of start to get to. work on him. >> Yeah. So like you said Pam's still alive. and she's impaled on that meat hook just. a few feet from where Kirk's body is on. this table that Leatherface is now. dismembering with the chainsaw. So as. she's dying she gets to watch that. Um, and then I think it goes back to the the. um homestead where Franklin and Sally. and Jerry, who's Sally's boyfriend, are. still hanging out and Jerry decides to. go look for them. Drawn into the same.

trap that Kirk and uh Pam fell for um by. looking for them and he gets picked off, too. His his death happened so quickly. that I actually thought for a second. that he was going to come back cuz I. hadn't seen it in a while. >> Yeah. And then I realized like, no, he. just he got taken out with one one. hammer swing. >> Yeah. And that that all makes it pretty. scary, too, cuz there's not this big. tense buildup like a lot of modern. horror. People are dispatched up just.

very kind of quickly and without regard, >> which makes it seem like that's probably. how it would be in that situation. It. makes it more realistic, I think. >> Yeah, totally. And by the way, um I've. seen uh Jerry referred to as Disco Stew. across the internet because he really. does bear a resemblance to him for sure. [gasps]. >> So he uh before he gets dispatched. though, he does open the the freezer in. the butcher room and sees that um Pam is. in there and sort of barely alive and.

kind of comes up and that's right when. he gets taken out. >> for sure. So Jerry's gone, Kirk and Pam. are gone. There's just Franklin and. Sally left and they wait until nightfall. until they just can't not look for their. friends anymore. So, they go chomping. through the woods and this is where. Hansel and Gretle really kind of becomes. clear. >> Yeah. >> Sally's pushing Franklin in his. wheelchair basically overland. And um as. they're wandering kind of aimlessly. through the woods, they come upon. Leatherface who just starts chopping.

Franklin up in his wheelchair. and Sally. realizing there's nothing she can do for. her brother takes off and um this kind. of chase through the woods. >> that leads back to leads her to the. Sawyer house which she's not familiar. with. So she goes in there looking for. help, realizes this is not the place to. find help. Has to jump out a second. story window, goes back to running. through the woods, and then makes it to. that original gas station/barbcue. pit thinking she's found safety. And it.

turns out that's not the case at all. Yeah. Uh because that's when it all. comes together that Drayton is in on it. He's one of the family members. Uh he. kidnaps her and uh this Okay, this scene. I could see is maybe being kind of. funny. The the broom attack. when he's smacking her with the broom. >> Yeah. Especially if you if you know the. little behind thescenes trivia that Jim. Seed did not want to to do that. He was. basically forced to and goated on to.

actually hit Marilyn Burns with the. broomstick to make it look real. And if. you know that the first few hits are. kind of tentative and he's almost. looking like, "Can I get away with. this?" And they clearly cut and then say. like, "Dude, you need to actually hit. her." And he does. And it's I mean I. think the fact that he didn't want to do. it and then had to do it there had to be. some sort of transformation in his. character that that you can't quite put. your finger on there. >> Yeah. And I guess I could see how that. scene could come across as funny a.

little bit. But again, it's so. terrifying because the way she screams. and the brutality of it all despite the. weird broom thing. Yeah. >> Like I I couldn't come back to a place. of laughing. There's just no way. >> No. So, I'm glad you mentioned her. screaming because like you said, there's. not a lot of dialogue in the second and. third acts, >> but I can't imagine how many times they. wrote Sally screams. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> She screams maybe more than any other. horror film victim. >> uh in history.

>> But fortunately for us, her scream. almost has like a pleasing quality to. it. And she has a huge range. It's not. the same scream over and over again. And. there's one point where she's like. like it's all like it's just a bunch of. different screams and she screams a lot. So she was very rightly and still is. called a scream queen. She's one of the. scream queens. But she screams a lot in. this movie. But it it it doesn't get. annoying. It's not grading and it just. makes the whole thing that much more. terrifying.

>> Yeah. I wouldn't say annoying, but I I. kept wanting it to stop because it's so. relentless, you know. >> Sure. It is. It is relentless. For sure. It's very upsetting. Um, so, uh, she. gets taken, you know, after the little. broom, uh, frackus, she gets, you know, bagged and taken back to the house. Uh, and this is where, I mean, in a movie of. disturbing scenes, maybe the most. disturbing scene is the dinner scene. >> for sure. >> Uh, with the whole family, which is, uh, we don't really learn this here. I think. we sort of learn later in other movies,

the the relations, but it's three. brothers. It's Bubba, Nubbins, and. Drayton. And then grandpa. Uh what I. wondered is about the parents. Um. >> I I guess that's explained maybe in. prequels and stuff. >> I'm not sure. >> Yeah, I have no idea because I haven't. seen those. But there's a grandpa who it. turns out was played by a 19-year-old in. in a face mask. Um also the grandpa. doesn't speak. And it's just this macob. dinner scene where it just shows how. this family of cannibals is so like.

they're all just so disturbed. It's just. disgusting. >> Yeah. At one point, Leatherface grabs uh. Sally's finger and cuts it with a knife. and then puts her finger in Grandpa's. mouth so grandpa can partake drinking. her blood. Right. And then so she's. being tormented this whole time. This is. a 10-minute long scene at least, depending on when you say it starts. Yeah. >> Where she's just being tormented and. terrorized and mocked. Nubbins the. hitchhiker is just mocking her like, "Please, please let me go." Yeah.

>> And then just the terror on her face. She she sells it so well. Um but anyway, grandpa there who's essentially immobile. and and just a couple degrees away from. catatonic. >> Yeah. >> They they're like, "Grandpa used to be. the best at killing people. He could. kill him with one hammer blow. Let's let. her um let him kill her.". >> God. So they actually drag her over to. like a a metal tub, lean her over it, her head over it, so that she doesn't.

get blood everywhere and and give. Grandpa the hammer, but he's so aged and. so just withered, he can't hold the. hammer, so he keeps dropping it out of. his hand and it lands like in the tub. next to Sally's head over and over. again, which Oh my god, dude. >> It's way scarier than if he had just. hauled off and hit her with all of his. strength. way cuz it goes on for a. minute or so, right? >> Yeah. It's really disturbing. >> Finally, she gets away. She goes through. another window and then we're we reach.

the end of the movie. >> Yeah. Just real quick, we should mention that. Leatherface has uh changed uh his attire. for dinner and is uh wearing a dress and. a new um I guess woman's skin mask. because it's all made up with this heavy. like you know clown makeup almost and. that just makes it even more disturbing. >> Well, don't forget his lovely creat too. that he was wearing. >> That's right. >> So Sally's getting away. She she runs.

out of the house. It's now sunrise, daylight. Um, >> which is a good sign for Sally at this. point. Also, the fact that she's the. last person and she's still alive. >> You can start to think like maybe. Sally's going to get away. But she's. running down the driveway and Nubbins. catches up with her. >> But unfortunately for Nubbins, he. doesn't really take her escape seriously. and continues to mock her while he's. chasing her. >> Well, he's slashing her back with that. razor the whole time, too, which is. >> Oh, I didn't notice that. Is that what. it is? >> Yeah, that's why she ends up such a.

bloody mess. I mean, besides everything. else that happened to her. >> Gotcha. But she makes it to the end of. the driveway to the main road with with. Nubbins right at her heels and they run. out into the street just as a Mac truck. Um, a tractor trailer essentially is. barreling down the street and runs right. over Nubbins. >> Yeah. So, Nubbins is gone. Uh, little. bit of trivia. The name on the side of. the truck is Black Maria. >> Mhm. Uh, I looked up to see if there was. any significance and I didn't verify.

this, but there's no way it's a. coincidence that Black Maria was uh the. name of Thomas Edison's very first. motion picture studio that he built. >> Oh, no way. That's a coincidence. But. also, doesn't that go to show like what. students of film these filmmakers were. that they knew that? >> Totally. Yeah, that had that had to be. the case, though. >> Yeah. And that they made an homage to. Thomas Edison's first movie studio. >> Yeah, it's pretty great. All right. So, uh, back to the movie. Uh, Nubbins has. been run over. The truck driver.

obviously stops. Uh, truck driver is. played by Ed, uh, Gui N, I guess. Gwen, but very close to Ed Gene. >> Oh, yeah. >> By coincidence, I'm sure. Uh, and the. truck driver is one of the weird heroes. of this movie. He has no lines. He's in. it for a couple of minutes. Uh, only. African-American character in here. And. in a in a spin on that trope that. they're the first ones to die, he's. actually the only guy that inflicts any. damage on this family at all. >> because he runs over Nubbing, right? >> And he he gets a big pipe wrench when.

he's getting out of the truck. >> and throws it at Leatherface, which. causes Leatherface to fall down with the. chainsaw and the chainsaw like cuts into. his own thigh, >> which is probably the most brutal thing. that they show in the entire movie. It's. gross. Like you can see the fat in his. leg come out, like bubble out of the. wound. >> Oh god. leg fat. >> So, uh, Sally is still running around in. the middle of the road here. And. luckily, a pickup truck comes by, and. she manages to jump in the back, and now. she's finally gotten away, but she's.

clearly lost her mind. The way that. she's reacting to it sinking in that. she's gotten away. And Leatherface is. not happy about this. Uh, he's very. frustrated. And he shows it by swinging. the chainsaw around wildly, >> terrified, >> swirling. >> You can tell he's just so mad. And this. is the only way that he can show it or. get it out. >> Yeah. >> And he's swinging and swinging against. the sunrise. And then, like you said, it. just cuts to black. >> Yeah. And and her that shot of her in.

the back of that truck with the blood. all over her and her. >> madly cackling. >> It It's It's the perfect ending. And the. abrupt ending like it's so loud with. that chainsaw. Yeah. And then to cut I. can't imagine what it was like in a. theater in 1974. >> Yeah. >> When it cuts to black and it's just dead. silent. Like what the hell did that. audience like do? >> Had I been there it wouldn't have been. dead silence cuz I would have been like. that is a great movie. [laughter]. >> I would have said. what did I just watch?

>> Right. >> Uh by the way pickup truck driver played. by Perry Loren who I think now is an. Austin real estate developer. Oh. >> okay cool. He was also the stunt driver, I think, for the truck. >> Yeah. I mean, you can barely see him, but, uh, got to shout out Perry Laurren. >> So, that's the movie. Um, I mean, there's not that much more to it, honestly. Uh, it was very bare bones, which I think again makes it that much. more believable. Uh, and we need to take. a second break. I say we plug on and.

make this just one big fat episode. What. do you think? >> Yeah, we got to do it. >> Okay. So, we're going to take our second. break and then we're going to come back. and you'll find out the bulk of the show. is still to come. >> Chuck and Josh. [music]. stuff. you. should [snorts] know. [music].

>> [music]. [music]. >> Yeah, [music]. [music]. satisfaction. >> All right, so we're back. We know what. happened in the movie. Uh, you know,

hopefully if you came back and you. didn't want it spoiled, this won't spoil. too much of it. But. >> oh yeah, we're done with the plot. >> Uh, but we need to talk about the making. of the movie. The film was shot in just. over well right out a month in 31 days, mid July to mid mid August in uh what. are now suburbs of Austin and uh Bassrop. and Round Rock. But I imagine then they. were a little more rural than they are. now. There was, you know, weren't strip. malls and stuff everywhere. >> No, they look pretty rural. >> Uh, pretty rural. um a little bit around. Austin itself obviously uh the heat the.

conditions were brutal like um you know. 100° plus on the on the roads and in the. streets and fields and more than that. inside the Sawyer house. >> with what little film lighting they had. and uh it was it was a brutal. experience. Uh they had a Ford van that. drove around the gear had an old camper. which is the hair and makeup trailer and. shot at basically at about six places. overall. I counted five. So, I've got. the rundown gas station, barbecue pit,

the abandoned house, which is the hard. to see homestead, the neglected. cemetery, the dirt road, and then the. Sawyer family house. >> Then you're in the van, too, baby. >> Oh, wow. That's great, man. You just. blew my mind. >> Yeah. So, basically sixish places. Uh, which is a great way to, you know, write. a cheap independent film, you know, as a. just a little tip. >> Yeah. And they were, again, they were on. a shoestring. Um, I suspect that the. Ford van they used to carry the film. equip equipment around was the same Ford.

van that the teenagers drive around in. >> I bet it was. That was my hunch. >> Um, and they also apparently got some. guff because the the road scenes that. they filmed, they did not get a permit. for. >> Oh, I'm surprised they got a permit for. any of it. >> Right. So, uh, unfortunately for the. cast and crew, most of the filming was. done in the Sawyer house. And again, like you said, 100° outside apparently. in the house. uh for our friends except. in Liberia who use the metric system, it's 37.8 degrees Celsius,

>> which seems very cold to me, >> right? And apparently it got 10 degrees. more than that inside the house. And. because this film was inspired in part. by Egg Gene, uh the production designer, Bob Burns, used photos that were taken, like crime scene photos taken in Egg. Gin's house as inspiration for the set. decoration. >> Yeah. I mean, uh, Toby Hooper himself. said that the movie is about meat. >> Yeah. >> And it's a case for veganism. Apparently, he became a vegan during.

filming. And, uh, you found out that. Gormo del Toro apparently became a vegan. after seeing the movie as well. And I'm. sure they're not the only ones. >> Yeah. And if you if you [clears throat]. uh look out for that, all of the meat. eating that's done in the movie is. disgusting. >> Yeah. The the truck that runs over. Nubbins is a cattle truck that is empty, which means it just is returning from. having dropped off a bunch of cows at a. slaughter house. >> They talk a lot about that. Yeah. >> Yeah, they talk about a slaughter house.

nearby. Um Yeah, it it makes a lot of. sense. And also not to mention that. there's that live chicken, tons of. carcasses hanging everywhere, lots of. like sausages and stuff all over the. house, skins, um bones, all that stuff. It just it makes sense. Like because if. there's one word it screams, it's meat. >> Yeah. Well, Franklin's chewing on that. looks like a raw sausage. >> Yeah. It's pretty gross. >> For a while in that one scene where he's. trying to get into his old grandparents.

house. And uh the implication here is. that these uh the Drayton are this is, you know, human meat that they're. grinding up into sausage. It's never. explicitly said, but I think that's what. you're supposed to believe. >> Yeah. That that's what the barbecue that. they're selling is made from, too, right? >> Well, that's what I mean. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. So, um because Bob Burns is. hanging actual meat around this house, and because it's 110° in the house, >> the house started to smell wretchedly. So much so I saw from multiple sources.

that they would go outside between takes. and throw up sometimes. >> Yeah. >> At the very least they had to get out to. get some air because it got gy in there. Terribly nasty just from the meat. But. then you also throw in what the actors. themselves must have smelled like. because they had one set of clothing. >> Yeah. >> And they had to wear it every day for. the shoot because this action takes. place o over just one day. >> Yeah. Yeah. Usually when you shoot a. movie, you have multiples of your. clothes. So if something happens to.

them, obviously you can switch it out. Or if they get stinky, you can switch. them out. >> Um on a modern movie, they probably have. like eight versions of the chainsaw. They had one chainsaw. So. >> on a budget, you just get one of. everything. >> So they were very stinky. >> Uh they had uh Bill Parsley, the you. know, one of the early financeers. stopping by uh almost every day. basically saying like, "When are you. going to wrap this picture?" um. threatening to shut it down. Uh they. shut, you know, 12 to 18 hours a day. One day they went for 26 hours inside.

that house. >> Uh obviously they're blacking out the. windows to cuz most of it takes place at. night uh in that house. Uh which is, you. know, psychologically that's uh. upsetting to a cast and crew. >> for sure. Also like this experience of. just being treated like this during. filming the cast itself like in real. life like there was a lot of tension, a. lot of squabbbling and bickering and. people just kind of being disgruntled. and that came through. I suspect from.

other stuff I've read that Toby Hooper. was making that like really beefing that. kind of tension up to get more just. angst out of his actors. >> Yeah, totally using that to his. advantage. uh as every great. manipulating director should. >> Sure. He also isolated uh Gunnar Hansen. who played Leatherface. I read that um. each of the actors who was dispatched by. Leatherface met Gunnar Hansen when they. filmed their scene for the first time.

>> Yeah. >> So that they couldn't get comfortable. with him. And we're I mean again like. you said 6'4 300 lb just and the. chainsaw was a pooling and apparently. it's one of their heavier ones. and he's. just swinging this around like it's. nothing. So clearly he was a an. intimidating person in real life. And uh. again, that was something Toby Hooper. did to manipulate things. >> Yeah. And he stayed in character, too, which is also means he's walking around. either babbling or or not saying. anything. I don't imagine they had a a. recording of a pig squeal to that he.

could just kind of play for fun as he. walked around. >> Yeah. >> Uh yeah, but it's uh they were they were. it wasn't a pleasant shoot. I also read. that the guy who played Franklin, Paul. Partain, uh stayed in character as well. and everyone hated him. >> Yeah. >> So, there was also physical suffering, too. We talked about how Marilyn Burns. was um actually hit in the head with the. broomstick just to to make it more. realistic uh looking. >> Uh she was she did almost all of her own.

stunts from what I could tell. Um a. woman named Mary Church was did the only. stunt she did was actually jumping out. of the windows. Yeah, bad wig in that. shot. >> Yeah, for sure. But um when when uh. Sally falls down over, you know, whatever, where she's running through. mosquite and gets trapped in it, running. through cockleber um like that was. actually Marilyn Burns, the actress, having to do that over and over. >> Yeah. And you get that sense, too, when. she's freaking out in that long chase. scene through the thicket.

>> Uh it's terrifying and it looks like. she's not enjoying things at all as you. know. So it comes really comes across on. film. Yeah, cuz she gets stuck and she's. like and has to pull herself out and. Yeah, I think she really did. >> Yeah. And then you know the the we. mentioned in the plot the scene again, this is a big spoiler. At one point her. finger is cut at the dinner scene and. it's put into the mouth of grandpa to. suckle her blood. Uh apparently the. blood squib didn't work and they really. cut her finger and that 19-year-old. grandpa kid in the face mask really.

drank her blood. >> Yeah. Unknowingly apparently until. afterward. Good God. >> So, one of the things that people point. to is what made this movie so great was. just the inexperience of these novice. filmmakers. >> Yeah. >> Um, we said that Daniel Pearl, the. cinematographer, was 23. Toby Hooper. apparently was the oldest at 29. >> Yeah. >> Um, and they had like documentary. backgrounds. Daniel Pearl was um he. apparently caught Toby Hooper's eye from.

a Texas Department of Public Safety um. PSA, right? >> Was like blood spills red on the highway. kind of thing. >> Yeah, basically except this is about a. drug bust and Toby Hooper noticed like, wow, that was shot really interestingly. and who did that? That's how they came. together. Um they made their own dollies. out of wood, uh their own crane out of. wood, too, I believe. Um, and then the. editing too gets a lot of credit for. making the movie what it was. >> Yeah. I mean, like we said, it's a trim.

83 minutes. Uh, you can thank Larry. Carol and, uh, Sally Richardson as the. editors. >> for just, you know, like I I kept. mentioning like the speed at which the. kills happen and the abruptness in which. they end and with the movie ends. Like. those are all just great editing. decisions to like um, you know, it's. tough because, you know, they call it. like losing your babies. You don't want. to lose stuff you shot or the great. line, but. >> uh a good editor knows like no tighter. is better, shorter is better. >> And uh it helps create a lot of the.

unsettling feeling I think by how. quickly they cut away to stuff. >> For sure. >> So they they finally got it done. I. think I said 300 grand is the the. highest I saw as an estimate for what. they actually what the budget actually. was. They got it down to 83 minutes. They had the final cut. they have. investors like breathing down their neck. because remember they initially got 80. grand. The budget ended up being 300. grand. So um Toby Hooper and Kim Hankle. kept having to go back and find new. people to give them money. And over time.

a lot of different investors including. the cast and crew owned that movie. They. owned portions of it. And as true indie. filmmakers, Kim Hankle and Toby Hooper watered down. their own share. >> to get the money to get the movie. completed. >> Uh, and they ended up just uh with a 7. and a half% cut each. These are the guys. who thought of and made the movie. They. ended up with 15% between them. >> Yeah. So, you know, I mean, we'll see it.

made a ton of money, but how those. things pay out, it just it never pays. out like you think it would. uh even. though it was cheap to make and made a. ton of money. um that get creative. accounting and in this case. >> uh sort of mob accounting. >> right. >> uh because well I guess we should say. first it did get picked up uh the. commissioner Warren Scarin that we were. talking about the film commissioner of. Texas shopped it around uh there you. know there weren't a ton of big of. movies being shot in Texas at the time. so it was sort of a uh you know before.

uh Robert Rodriguez and Richard. Linkladder put Austin on the map to Toby. Hooper was first so it wasn't like a big. film scene And um so it took the film. commissioner to really champion it for. distribution. Uh almost got bought by. Colombia. Um eventually was bought by. the distribution company who put out. the famous porn. >> Uh and their name was Brianston uh. distributing company. >> Yes. And their whole business model um. was basically just generate as much.

publicity as you can. Neg negative. publicity is just as good as positive. >> Yeah. and then they would just promote. the heck out of it, publicize all of. this outrage and everything that the. movie was getting. And the reason why is. because um they couldn't afford. traditional marketing as it it worked. out. It was basically a shell game house. of cards. And like you said, it was a. mobbed up movie distribution company. >> Yeah. So, um, Brianston was owned by. the, uh, Columbbo crime family or the.

or, you know, members of that family, uh, specifically Big Tony. >> Pareno. >> Uh, he also helped finance, um, part of. this film and other of their films. >> Uh, and yeah, they I think they. distributed Darkstar from John. Carpenter, which is a sci-fi cult. classic. >> Yeah. >> Uh, but because it was Mob connected, it. was kind of one of those things where. they knew that no one was going to see. the money. they were probably owed. And. I think, you know, some of them made a. little bit of money, but the the total.

pot, even though it made um well, we'll. talk about the grosses. Um but I think a. little over a quarter of a million bucks. or a little under a quarter of a million. bucks to to dole out to everybody. >> Yeah. And the cast and crew was left. with $8,100 to split between them. >> So, yeah. I mean, it's not terrible. >> No, it's not great either. I mean, divide that by about 20. Oh, I don't. think those extras got much if anything. >> Okay. Still, so divided by 10 because. the crew was involved, too.

>> Yeah. I'm not saying they got paid a. lot, but they did. >> But in today dollars, if that cast. walked away with like five grand, then I. mean, that's not terrible for an indie. movie. >> Sure. Um, the investors sued Brianston, and there was a a judge who ruled like, "Yeah, you need to give them more money. than that." And Brianston said, "We. would if we could, but we're bankrupt. now." So, see you guys later. Finally, New Line picked it up in 1983 and some. real money started to flow in, but still. not much trickled down to the people who. actually made the movie.

>> Yeah, for sure. Um, one of the most. startling facts of this whole podcast to. me is that Toby Hooper was trying for a. PG rating. >> Yeah, >> it was pre PG-13. Uh the the board the NPA basically said. that that meat hook scene like you you. can't have that in your movie at all and. get a PG I get a PG rating cuz he was. like how could I cut that scene in a way. that gets it a PG and they were like. they're incompatible my friend. >> right and he responded with yeah come on.

>> yeah he got an X rating instead. Yeah, he did. He managed to lobby it down to. an R because this is the time when you. got an X-rating like you can kiss any. success for your movie goodbye. Unless. of course Brianston owns it because we. should say um being distributed by. Brianston wasn't a total like scam or a. bust. They actually did do some good. stuff. Like we said, they generated some. really negative publicity and then. publicized that. They also managed to.

get this film the year it came out into. the Museum of Modern Arts permanent. collection. You can believe they. publicized that. They also got it shown. at can. >> Yeah. which is I mean we could say like. that's actually some a couple of good. things that they did for sure for the. movie which certainly remember this when. it came out it's going to be a drive-in. bem movie slasher film and before anyone. knew what a slasher film really was and. then it would probably be gone in a. month or two at best and these things.

started to help make it like okay maybe. we should pay a little more attention to. this because at first the critics panned. it um and then they started to see like. okay actually there's some really good. cinematic stuff in here that we're. overlooking. >> Yeah. I mean, it it grossed more than. The Great Gatsby that year, Chinatown, uh Deathwish, uh it took in in that. year's dollars, uh about $26 million. bucks. >> and change. Um eventually went on to.

gross. >> $150 million in present- day dollars. So, it was a at one point it was known. as the the most successful independent. film of all time moneywise, >> right? I think Rocky knocked it out a. couple years later from what I. understand, but it was definitely huge. >> Rocky knocked it out. You sure it was in. the TK? >> Oh, wow. I didn't even mean to do that. [laughter] The spirit of Jonathan. Strickland just flowed through me. >> That's right. Uh, but yeah, you. mentioned the critics. They, you know, they kind of got on board a little bit. Like Rex Reed said it was, you know, the.

most terrifying, like me, film he'd ever. seen. Um, Eert said it was some kind of. weird off-the-wall achievement. I can't. imagine why anyone would want to make a. movie like this, and yet it's wellmade, well acted, and all too effective, >> right? But they still ultimately said. they panned it, right? Um, I although I. don't think Rex Reed did. I think he. might have given it a thumbs up, however. he did that. Um, but they they would. invariably say that it was blood soaked, that it was gory. Um, and those that's.

just not true because if you watch the. movie, there is very little blood, very. little gore, and a lot of the violence. is just implied. It's not actually. shown. Uh, certainly you don't see the. meat hook go into Pam. >> No, >> but you see her dangling from a meat. hook and that confused people at first. So, people walked away thinking they. just seen a ton of gore and blood and. they hadn't. >> Yeah. Uh, I mean, that's a good point. the the hammer blows are kind of shot. from far away and very fast.

>> and you know you don't see blood spatter. everywhere. >> Uh is there's just an overall like the. MPA should just say hey man I don't care. if we don't see one drop of blood this. gets an X for disturbing factor. >> Yeah I mean I could see that too and I. mean it's a credit to Toby Hooper that. he managed to get it reduced to an R. Um, but yeah, you can imagine his. disappointment making the film based on. the idea that he was making it a PG. movie. I mean, that's just as naive as. it gets really for a filmmaker.

>> Yeah, for sure. Uh, and it really, you. know, like I said in our act one, uh, that really set a standard for films to. come, slasher films, teenagers, uh, kind. of driving through the woods and coming. upon an abandoned, seemingly abandoned. place. This was the first movie to do. that stuff really. Uh like horror movies. before this, a lot of them were the the. hammer movies like the Gothic like. vampire in a castle kind of stuff. >> Um the final girl trope was either.

birthed with this or um which one? Black. Christmas. >> Yeah, those two usually um are the. rivals for the first one. >> Yeah. And the final girl is obviously. the trope where there's one girl left. alive at the end. um you know, the last. either victim or one who survives. And. those movies were both. >> released in the same year and clearly. didn't know about one another. So, I. give them the the co-lead. >> And like I said, over time, people. started to um especially film. appreciators started to see this as like.

a a cinematic treasure, a masterpiece. Quinn Tarantino apparently listed it. among six perfect movies among the likes. of Jaws, Exorcist, Young Frankenstein, and Back to the Future, and Annie Hall. >> Um, like people apparently Stanley Kubri. owned a 35mm print of it himself. That's. kind of all you need to say right there. >> Yeah. But I maybe in spite of that or. because of that or whatever, everyone.

agrees that you could never remake the. Texas Chainsaw Massacre and capture the. spirit of the original because of the. way that it was hamstrung, all the. different ways it was hamstrung and the. inexperience and naivity of the. filmmakers, which also freed them up to. take chances that an experienced. filmmaker wouldn't take, like dubbing in. a hog squeal instead of a voice for. Leatherface at some point. You put all. that together, you just can't recapture. that.

>> No, you can't. Sometimes there's just a. way you shoot a movie. You capture. Lightning in a Bottle. Uh I read the. Days and Confuse oral history recently. That's a great book. Um that was sort of. a similar movie. Like uh that's why that. was maybe the best movie about teenagers. in high school of all time because of. the way they did it and the inexperience. and like you don't know what you don't. know. And this movie is very much the. same thing. Like they've tried there. have been uh countless sequels and. remakes. I think there would have been.

like nine or 10 of them now. >> if you want to count them. Yeah. >> Yeah. And you know, none of them hold a. candle to this. Most of them are not. very good. Uh for my money, the thing. that comes closest is Rob Zombie's House. of 10,00 corpses in Spirit. uh but and which was you know this was a. very big influence on that movie. obviously but I don't think anything um. and again I haven't seen these but I've. seen enough of them and read enough. about them where it seems like none of. them come close. >> Um I also see Wolf Creek and X as uh.

given high marks for being inspired by. the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and managing. to do something worthwhile too. >> Wolf Creek is great. I don't think I. know X. >> X the um it's part of the Maxine. trilogy. X Girl and Maxine. The first. one. >> Yeah. Yeah, I saw all those. Okay. I. forgot it was called X. Yeah, that those. are all good, too. >> I've only seen X. Are the other two. worth watching, too? >> I think so. >> Okay. Um, and then so I think John. Landis put it how impossible it would be.

to remake or capture that same spirit. from the original Texas Chainsaw. Massacre when he described the remake in. 2003. um like a shampoo commercial. [laughter]. >> Gets it across. >> Yeah, that's a pretty sick burn. >> Um, wow. You got anything else? >> I got I got nothing else. Uh, I try to. watch this every Halloween. I don't know. why it took me so long to see it. Uh cuz. I had gotten into horror movies in the. past like 20 years more and more.

>> It was just kind of hanging out there. until a few years ago and I was like, "Wait a minute. I've never seen The. Granddaddy of Them All.". >> Yeah. And when you watched it, you said, "Wow, this is a great movie.". >> No, no, you know what I said. >> We got to watch it together. I want to. just watch you watch it. >> All right, we'll do it. >> Okay. Well, since Chuck agreed to let me. watch him while he watches the Texas. Chainsaw Massacre, as it was predicted. in 2008 by Chuck Stradamus [music]. himself, >> Mhm. >> I just triggered listener mail.

>> Uh, this is from uh, it's Aquarius. Uh, hey guys. 19 years ago when I was just. 13, I was allowed to visit our local. skating rink along with my uncle. It was. an experience that stood out from my. previous visits [music] cuz that night. was full of black culture. It left a. lasting impact on me and I would often. jokingly think to myself it must have. been black night or something. After. listening to your roller skating. episode, I was astonished to learn that. such events were actually a thing after. the civil rights movement. Uh I'm. uncertain whether that night was a. tradition that dated back to that time,

but I like to think that it was and that. I was a part of the experience. Uh thank. you for helping me, a black man, make. connections that I was completely. unaware of. uh and he attached a. photograph from that night that he took. uh with his uncle and his uh friends uh. that was pretty sweet in a time capsule. and he said, "Have a great day, guys.". And that is from Aquarius McMurray. >> Nice. Thanks, Toquarius. That's a great. one. I love that episode in part for. that cuz I had no idea about that. either. [music]. >> Yeah, same. >> That's awesome. Uh if you have recently.

listened to an old episode and want to. tell us what you think about it, like to. love that kind of stuff. You can send. [music] it off to stuffodcast@. iheartradio.com. >> Stuff you should know is a production of. iHeart Radio. For more podcasts, iHeart. Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple. Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your. favorite shows.